Hey, humans. How's it going? Susan Ruth here. Thanks for listening to another episode of hey, human podcast. This is episode 413, and my guest is Wiley Mcgraw. Wiley story is a ride through professional baseball, competitive bull writing and 3 tours of service is a Us army combat veteran. He's also the host of wise words and whiskey podcast. We had a great conversation. This took place a little while ago, and I'm just now getting it out into the world. And really interesting guy,
really a stand up guy. Love talking to him. And I think you will enjoy this 1. General stuff. I'm on patreon at Susan Ruth. Check out hey, human podcast dot com for links and to learn more about My guests in the show, check out susan root dot com to learn more about me and my other artistic endeavors, and follow Susan Ruth and, hey, human podcast. On social media. Find my music wherever you get your music,
and it should be there. And rate review and subscribe to, hey, human podcast on itunes or wherever you get your podcast podcasts. Thank you for listening or coming up on 8 years, which is so bonkers to me. I really appreciate you, and thanks for, you know, being a part of this journey with me. Be well, be kind, be beloved Here we go. Why leave girl welcome to hey human. Thanks for having. I appreciate it. I learned of view through Rebecca. Our mutual business associates. I guess, yeah a
good way to put it. And she had reached out to me actually about you in general, and I started of reading your bio and I thought, well. I wanna get this guy on my show. So Was trying to help her get you on another show. Yeah. And so I'm really glad you're here. It's well. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. I think so too. And thank you for the the support on the other show as well. Yeah. Absolutely. My pleasure. Let's start with where did you grow up what shaped you into becoming who you are now? Well,
that's quite the stories. I'll do my best to t it is as fast as very as possible. But I I was born in Southern California. So From Orange County, California, originally. I'm the oldest of 3 boys, and I grew up into a household of sport. So my father was a semi pro ball player in
the seventies. As an out filter, you know, had potential to be a professional baseball player But at the time, you know, a lot of different variables from there wasn't a ton of money in sports in the seventies, at Etcetera, of course, his ambitions were probably lane elsewhere. So he didn't go that route. However, you know, having 3 sons, you know, the first born showcasing that he had an arm at a very young age. My dad started to cultivate, you know, the whole sports
persona. So we were put right into sports. Myself, Baseball was a primary focus, but I did play football off season. I did play some soccer as a young kid. Which I really enjoyed as well. My middle brother played in Baseball, but he was more of a football focus guy. And then my youngest brother brother who came 6 years after I was born at it at some point when he got on owner, he started to do a little bit of of all of the different sports but. I think he found his footing, like, the
cross country tracking field. So we found our own niches as, you know, these young men. But they small... Grow up an house full of, you know, grandparents were entrepreneurs, uncles and aunts medical professionals, doctors, my dad I was an entrepreneur also real estate his entire life, so he sold, really really good high end properties and things like that. I grew up in a a pretty decent middle class. I would say upper middle class family.
However, you know, it's again, it's big Irish Scottish Catholic family, so all my grandparents are, you know, they hail from Scotland and Ireland. So I grew up in that kind of household where it was very strict, disciplined, very focused, stoic if you will at time. So a lot of them was very you know, you were met as a child to be seen and I heard my and queues. My, you, my parents taught me, you know, manner morals respect for my elders. Like, rub that kind
of environment. However, there are a lot of other variables to the intensity of that kind of family dynamic that I help Mold as well. I mean, dealing with people that had a very high functioning addictions to stress a lot of a lot of generational, stress and trauma that was not dealt with. So that seat into the family life as I grew up, but sports were the outlets. So I played sports urine and in year out, Excel that as a picture. Was a sturdy picture on every Baseball team that I played
on because of my my talent capabilities. And as I got older, I noticed that I got into high school and I was like, okay. I started to have those conversations as a as they go, man going, okay, but, what do I really want? You know? Is this a sports we're sports the thing I would actually really chose or... And I realized I was actually put into the game and not really... I didn't get to decide. The game itself. I need get to choose
that path. So as I got into high school, sort develop my friendships and, you know, your personality grows, I had that battle in my mind of, like, where I wanted to go, and I started to seek out alternative worlds that really started to challenge that I wanted to be challenged. And I wanted to go break away from the conditioning of you're gonna perform perfect in the sport. You're gonna be an athlete year in you're out. This is your focus. You go to church. You go school. You do
your work, good gig grades. You know, and I did well. I mean, I, you know, my off time, I played play Gi Joe's with my brothers and my friend's neighborhood. We wrote be on bikes. We escape all the time, You know, we're Gen kid. So we're always away from the house, we were focused on sports. So it was really pulling got those experiences. Learn how to survive on water... Water from garden hoses and, like, you know, riding bikes 10 miles away from when you're not supposed
to. And it was fun. But as you get older, you go, okay. Well, where am I gonna start grounding myself to to what it is that I want and you start to notice those patterns, those those emotions those thoughts... And they start to conflict with what you up with. And for me, personally, I started to combat that path that I felt that I was being put on and I found myself naturally challenging what my dad expected of me, and I chose to move towards
a different direction. So at that point, I got into bull writing I think it's 16 years old in high school. I got in this competitive world of, of riding bowls and Rodeo. That exciting me turn me on to a whole new, meaning of life at self, what it meant for me to be a little bit more while, a little bit more
free. And I wanted more of this. So I started chasing things that kinda mimic those environments and the the next best thing that came from that experience was a military And and of course, coming also from a legacy military family, it made sense, though at the same time, you know, that would be kind of like a part of the path or the decision making process. So in a nutshell, I grew up in a...
I mean, again, I... It's not like, you know, there was no danger or chaos to the degree of, like, I had a very bad upbringing.
But, again, I grew up in a good household as far as manners in and morals and Pc queues and learning how how to actually live in society and respecting 1 another but the stress of the dynamics in the family, they started to play a role and where I wanted to take my life, and I think that's why when I got the into the high school world I found myself pulling away from sports and got into rodeo and then eventually the military and said I wanna go get away from all this and
figure out how to carve my own path. How was the family reaction to you deciding to go a different direction. The fact that your eldest child probably helps. I imagine. Wait. It's interesting this is my father, So I look like my dad. So I'm I'm I'm literally spitting image of him. And I think my dad expected to be as a leader of the boys for the 2 brothers to set the example and to lead by that example, but to stay focused on a very specific career path so that I can mold and shape the
younger brothers to do the same. Again, very successful people in my family. I mean, I'm... We're we're talking about hospital executives, doctors, My grandparents were multimillion millionaires because they were in their investments in their entrepreneurial entrepreneurship and stuff like that. So it's you know, my my dad's dad was a world war 2 vet, you know, Normandy as well. I'll retired police chief. So they,
you know, they... There... There's this interesting background between all the different members of the family. But my father, he wanted something specific for me. And I understand to respect that, I I get it. But when I decided to start to naturally break away from... I would say the... I the... It's almost like I was... I felt more confined by the by the expectation rather than free. I love the baseball I love to play the game, but it naturally didn't evolve to where I
could go to college and play it. It'd be where I should've have gone. I did my own thing. And to answer your question really, what was interesting was my dad and I got into a lot of heated back and forth, arguments units and conversations throughout high school because of that decision. He did not like me writing bulls. He, you know, he told me he gave me an attitude, which I thought was Hilarious and I was like, well... I've got an attitude because of how I beat expected to to perform. So
I don't know. It was... I would say I look back now given especially everything I've done in my life and even the work I do, etcetera. It gave me a whole new playing field with dealing with the unknowns and stress, and dealing with and managing confrontation. And learning how to stay in the discomfort and realizing that that discomfort doesn't mean it's bad. It just means something's changing. So I took that harley it into the rest of my life and realized, I was built to confront, And I just
needed those experiences to awaken that up. And I think that, you know, again, I look at this way. I was going to Church. I was praying for a a different life. I wanted to look maybe God was directing me in that way. Like, hey, I need you to confront something, so you can expose, a little bit more of how you were built. And you can find your footing in in life of the path you wanna go on and so you can walk up happen to me. I I cherish the decision to go against my dad's wishes.
And I honor the confrontation that I had with him through high school, and it was very uncomfortable coming home on a daily basis, be under his roof. My dad's very stoke and very it gives you a look and you're like, okay. I'm not I'm not crossing that boundary. You know, my dad dad's not
a push over. So having that those interactions built me into a different type of more brazil like man and really helped me accept excel in the military and then take that from the military and move out into the world we're finding my my footing as an entrepreneur and do my own thing. Really, I I look back in and I'm I'm grateful for him. So isn't it interesting that we put a negative connotation on
confrontation. That that word of itself. Sounds very intense when Right really all it is is having boundaries and having a voice, and learning how to have your own voice. Right? And and saying this is who I am and having dominion over oneself. And I think now I you're Gen x. Right? So the language back then, not so much. The language now, of course, facilitates that kind of standing up for oneself, but you grew up in a totally different time, and that's...
That takes big honest, I think to stand up to the father, especially as the eldest Child. Where... Was on around? No. My parents were divorced when I was 12. That's, again, that stress did not help, you know, 3 brothers. So, again, it's horrible when parents get divorced in general regardless of the situation. So that that was another... Another whole world. I had to be the oldest in that dynamic to help deal with my mom's new husband,
my dad's in relationship, the brothers, etcetera. So there was a lot more of that compounded on top of everything we had going on. They did the best I could for what they had going on. And and it is what it. And at this point, I think all these years later, they're still best friends and I still... Have known each other since my mom was 13 years old. So it's not like they're going anywhere. But the reality here was, yeah. In that time, you don't you don't... You mind p's in queues. You
you respect your elders. You don't argue in combat, your parents or grandparents, you know? And it's... However, I I also feel like there's... Again, there's a spectrum to that. Just like you just said, competition sounds like a very charged
word, but there's a spectrum to competition. I think the lowest end of it would be to just do something you know you need as a boundary and ask someone to participate that otherwise would neglect or reject you for it might be uncomfortable for you as a lower end spectrum
of the confrontation. Whereas the hiring end could be an actual all out physical altercation with someone or or straight up getting into AAA raging argument to to to create some form of, like, discord change in the in the relationship or dynamic And I think people miss that as well. They go confrontation equals discomfort, discomfort. I don't like and I avoid it, and then they get upset and wonder why things aren't necessarily changing or their isn't being produced through the efforts that
they that they're... They are putting it. And I I've had a conversation someone recently about that. And they said, I'm not a conversational person. They yeah, But you've been doing the the way you've been doing for 15 years. Nothing's been changing. So maybe it's time for you to actually confront x in your in your life and maybe you have that conversation that you've been avoiding it this entire time. Because that's what you've been missing. Is that
1 piece of competition. And it's just tell the person how you feel, share with them what you need, tell them what you want for your life. And and letting them have that react and realizing nothing bad gonna happen to you. So... Yeah. No I mean, it's tied into Ego. Right? We're afraid to say how we feel about things we don't want the other person to think less of us. And so Right keep quiet. And that... A big part of it. Yeah. I think a big part of that too is, self awareness.
The fact that we don't even confront ourselves with so much. Oh, we avoid more than we actually confront The... And I I think you'll appreciate this is it takes more energy to avoid something than it does to confront it. It sounds counterintuitive intuitive, but the truth is it it it you actually have to ex exhaust so much more mind space, brain brain energy, heart all of it to hold on to and avoid something. Rather than just
going, you know what? I'm gonna have this uncomfortable moment with this person or this situation because I need to not carry this anymore, and I need to move through it. And I think that's the heart adversity does build character and it does build resilience and it does build strength within us to handle life's challenges and problems that we face because life is basically war. We're gonna constantly go
through them. If you're not... If you're... If, like train at the gym or anything, you might If you're not doing it consistently and getting the experience, when you actually face something real and really hard, it you crumble under that pressure, and then you... Then you're back... I think it's like that 2 steps forward step back. You're further backed than you wanted to be, and you're your grasping for what's next?
To pull you through that. And then I think that's the last thought here I would say is that's where people get lost in the world of spending time energy money on solutions they think outside of themselves that are gonna pull them through that those problems rather than realize. I have to first address myself, and then I have to confront that reality and then I have to go do something about it. Yeah. It's interesting that you said life is like war. I... I'm it's
terrible as that sounds. I I actually agree with that statement. We do fight our battles all the time. We're constantly... Life is a series of walking through fire. It is. And if it's too comfortable, you don't grow. And it's my 1 of my favorite quotes I kinda altered it, you know, because I live by it, but, I'm trying... And Frank said it was you only truly know someone when you fight them. It is only then that their character is revealed. And that's... It is so true. Even in
in... When it comes to people coaching each other when it comes to therapy, when it comes to anything in life that is meant to propel us forward in a more progressive manner as an individual's. If you don't have If you're not willing to fight that person through whatever dynamic is sticking because our human beings are very resistant to change. So anything that's ugly and uncomfortable that they deemed as do not touch... Do not look, do not say. Those are the very things we should
be fighting. Those are the very things we should be confronting interrupted, getting out in the front because those are the very things that are in fact, limiting people's capacity to actually experience more for their life. But we we wanna tip to around that. We wanna find the hacker the the shortcut, and we wanna create an idea of just discomfort in our mind by doing kinda some little... Like, you know, we'll do a couple reps in the
gym. I feel a little bit of a burn in my biceps, so I'm gonna stop right there. Whereas if you were to embrace that burn and go beyond that burn. That's when the muscle starts to grow. And I think that's the piece that's missing too. Mh. Before we get into military, I... Just because how often do I get to talk to someone that's written around on a bowl. What was that like? Scary. Yeah And also, not to be rude, but how does that match just destroy your genitals? I know no. It's not rude. It's a
great question. I... You know what? I I think you're the second person ever asked me that. So it's interesting is because it's all about technique and fundamentals. So when you learn how to sit on the back of the animal. Again, like, we're men, we have those things there I'm sitting on a chair. So at the end of the day, I'm still not crushing myself, well, there's a technique to it. There's a way you sit down on it. Writing bowls is no different. However, it's
a live animal and. So there's a lot of g duration and movement under underneath refused, so there's a lot could happen. And I have been jar there a few times. So it's not like it doesn't happen. However, the focus, it's like... But riding bulls was scary, exciting, exhilarating nerve nerve wracking. It was all emotions you truly can feel it once when you start doing it at first. All present. It's almost like a flood of every part of you just becomes alive. It's...
You go, wow. I never even understood as a human need, what that would even feel look or sound like. And you talking about adrenaline, like the adrenaline drug? Or Not even the adrenaline just it's almost like a the wait... It's the awakening of your mind, the ability to... It it almost brought broaden your horizons. It's the I don't know how to explain it it's such an experiential thing. However, I would say it ignited a version of myself that I think had been missing planes baseball with my
dad and growing up in that household. It was like this exciting new part of this wild version of Wiley that I knew was there that I didn't know how to access. It's almost like getting into that very uncomfortable environment, which is bull writing. Rodeo is Very dangerous. It's very it's very full of unknowns. That's the key. It it it excited be because there were so many variables of unknowns that I I could not
control. And I think that's what really old me towards and wars because what could you be capable of if you embrace the unknowns, you embrace a fear that comes from those unknowns? And then you learn for what you discover, when you get shocked to buy what comes at you through that unknown. And to me, bull writing gave all of that to me. On top of a couple Charlie horses and some rack, you know, groin area stuff and some broken bones, but back. I'm sure. Yeah
Broken... Yeah. I've fractured my o 4 when I was 21. So it it is amazing how that all just... It was almost like it solidified the world of, okay. What fear means what we can do with fear? How we can harness it how we... It's not about trying to get rid of it and realized it's about recognizing it and why it's being stimulated and how do we harness that situation? To then ex execute it into our performance so that we can execute upon a task, we not may not be total a
control of. And realize realizing that life is full of unknowns and life is full of variables we cannot. I think humans try to control everything, and that's why I feel they're they're miserable and they're unfulfilled and they're always seeking more things and they're not surrendering and realizing there's a lot we can't control and there's other factors in life that we need to give ourselves to. So more writing just became this, like, 5 years, I could did it competitively on
the lighter end. I got to just be more grit, more wild. I got to explore versions of my sides of myself that I didn't even the... I wasn't even allowed to ex dude in that household. You know? And I got rowdy with cowboys. I learned how to fist quite better that way. I mean, all the all those different pieces gave me AAA new view of the world around me. And I took that as, like, a really nice stepping tool, but also a tool, a really good tool
for me as a human being. Not saying you have to go right a all, but I would find environments that are similar that really scare you because if it doesn't really scare you, it's not really gonna change you. If you're not shocked from within, nothing changes. You have to be rattled And I think it's going back to conversation we've talked about is if you're not... I confronted the fear. I got the back of a bowl. Unless I'm gonna do it anyway. And when that both fell on me, I loved
it. I was like. Let's do it again Let's do it again. Let's do it again. Let's see what else I can do. Let's see what else I I'm capable of. And at some point, when if god tells me stop, he's gonna... I'm gonna stop. And 1 day, I I got stopped, and that's just how it works. So... What stopped you? I broke my back. Oh, that would do it. Yeah. Yeah. Right here. I'm I'm fortunate. I would say blessed because I was in the army at the time, and we'll go go
to that. I was on leave and I fractured my L 4, but I fractured the body in the l 4 with my hairline. So I didn't break any of the external bones and it damaging the nerves. It was just a a hard impact and blunt forced trauma into the lower back after I got thrown off, and I got rehab for a few months, and I got back into training. I didn't... I definitely didn't lose out any
opportunities think on. So... The way you're describing being on the ball, it it feels like what I imagine an Olympia fields, or it's that idea or a ballet dancer or that thing or even a admitted to something that's deep and meditation that or kung fu any of that stuff. It's almost like your whole body has to be on at the same time until it becomes almost like a flow state, and that means just... We're bond and you probably on the
beginning. I'm sure, but that you develop it into being such a hyper awareness of every part of not only your being. That's good. Mean average not horses, and I know don't have to... Really... It sounds corny. But you had to become 1 with the horse to really have a exceptional ride. You you become 1 being. You do. I imagine that it's it's kind of like that. It's exactly. And a great way to describe that for people too
because it is... You would do have to connect to that animal, And that's the thing is it like horses. I love riding horses too. When you're on the back of that, it's that's a that's a life... You're you're on the back of another living creature. There is a spirit there. So you connect to that animal and you realize that this is not... You're not... If you separate yourself, that's when I find... I found that when I would do the separation when I'd be
too focused on... I'm gonna ride and I get too worried into my prep team again get on the back of them. I would actually get thrown off much quicker or I get slammed a little harder. When I would be present a little bit more focused, and I would connect to the, I would feel that life underneath me. I would fuel his breath and moving in and shifting in a
in that shoot. Prior to come out, putting our rope on there, smelling him and just connecting with him, slowing down and actually allowing myself to be present, to be focused to be 1 with my emotions connecting to just that moment. My rides were way better. Now it doesn't mean I didn't... You don't practice. We have fundamentals. You go train on barrels that we have we build together to to practice the bucking patterns and you you strengthen your body. You have to strengthen your
forums. Bull writing is 80 percent legs. So you ask about, you know, the groin. A lot of the times you're posting your... You sell by squeezing your legs up off the animals. So there's a lot of physical demand in that sport as well. But as the years progressed like riding horses. I was in the same way. When First got my first source I'm like, I don't what to do. After a while, you become home with that animal, and they could feel you too, and then the... It's almost like
a dance. Mh. She's had his beautiful dance. And you end up performing way better. It's interesting how that works. The animal knows. Yeah. I I believe the animal knows. They do. When you're connecting to them. The it's a respect and an honor thing. Granted, I'd need to be a bowl with all my junk tied up and a knot or whatever they do to make them so pissed off. But Well, that you're they're ready.
They're all the raise to do that. So they are the the rough stock that these companies rays for babies, our bread to buck. That's lit literally all they're designed to do It's like a race force. They're the bread to buck. They know when they get in that tight confined space, and they have that... What's called a flank strap. It's rapid... It is. It's closer to the, like, your... About is a strap around your bladder. And squeeze right around that area a rope
really tight. That's uncomfortable. So, yes, there's a flank strap there that they're trying to kick up as well. Plus they have your rope right underneath their breast plate. So that you have these 2 ropes on this animal. So it's already designed to do that. And then on top of that you're giving it in this confinement and you're putting these ropes on it of course, it's gonna blow out of that gig and that gate opens and it's gonna try to throw you and everything else that it's not on it.
And, I I've spent time in rodeo arenas prior to a jackpot that I ridden in. Hanging out with some of the rough stock that we were gonna ride the next day, and they're just grazing in walking around us while we're drinking beer and no, they're not kicking us trying to kill us. So they're just docile loving creatures as well when they're not putting in that position to do their job. So it's it it's pretty wild to have that experience. Yeah. So interesting.
Yeah. I love this. I would... I've never been able to ask these questions, so it's really great. That's great. It's great. Do you 2, if going back to this conversation about confrontation, I have a a show that I do on Youtube with my friend who's a sex psychologist. And we had an... It's it's a sex and relationship show, and we had an episode about communicating. And I talked about how they say when you had to have those really big conversations with your your partner or family, whatever.
That to touch them in some way, whether your feet are touching or your hands are touching, and I I feel like it's it's a little bit of the same sort of thing, You know, the little hand on the shoulder or or being so close in proximity that that your energetic fields if you will. Our coat or comm ming? Yeah. Yeah. That it facilitates a much better communication in those times of stress when you have to talk about the really important things. Yeah. That's good That's good that you brought that up.
I would... My brain's going a thousand miles an hour that 1. It's interesting is Yes. I I people that have to have the hard arguments or conversations in the relationship. Most of the time when they... It starts to get really plot what's the first thing most people do? Time up? If to be I go, no. I even some of even my psychologist, colleagues I have that work in my business with me over the years is to the fact that what I've even understood in the dynamics of human beings, how messy we really
are. Those are the moments. When it's getting hot, that's when you're getting truth. That's when you're getting the clarity of what's really going on. And it... That is when you should actually stay engaged. Now you'd also need to... Mean, caveat. Discern, discern, the difference between whether it's just becoming some argument of violent and experience versus a very hot heated productive. Debate back and forth productive conversation. That's the other thing is let's
make sure we don't go. You know? I'm just gonna engage in this until someone pulls out a gun and we get into a gun fight. That's not what I'm saying there. But, like your friend said, like, you talk about of your other show. It really the touching or at least being approximately sometimes, when things are exploding, touching is not necessarily a good. Mean people need to keep that, but being engaged and staying in that heat, that is where the real
transformation of that conversation can go. If the 2 people or more are open and willing to to keep engaging and under scanning the other side rather than trying to win the argument. I think I the other thing is we try to win arguments rather than trying to find solutions. Yeah. To the problem, it's not about winning. And that's not really what it's about. So I like that because if I if I haven't an argument someone I know, and it's a really heated 1 because I'm a big
energy and I can create some interruption. I'm staying engaged that. That's... I know that conversation creating a movement for that person, and myself maybe as well. I'm okay with it. And I just said, no, don't go anywhere. Don't go anywhere. This is where we get to the real juice here. This is where it really matters. And I think that's another piece too is that people can just stay... But, you know what? That's the conversation muscle. That's
the discomfort muscle. Like I do with my dad, stay there until it comes to a solution. Find where you you be surprised what happens afterwards, then take your time out. Yeah. It's the fifteenth rep. I that's right. It is sometimes it's like, I I can't do it. You know what you can. Don't let your mind make you quit. When it's the most uncomfortable because you're capable a lot more than you think you are. And I think that... That's a big
piece of it. I think that thing that people lose side of when they are healthy arguing is they they get cruel sometimes, and you can't take words back. And, like, you said, the idea that there has to be a winner, and that's just not what a partnership is. And anything they business, you know, friendships, intimate relationships. There should never... It should not be about a winner. It should be about, a problem... You should be a problem solving together. It doesn't matter if someone is right
or not. Again, again, my wife is right with certainty. I I hundred percent. She's right. I'm not going to combat her and become an an a analyst adolescent and child and start lobbying insults because I don't like what she might be saying. If she tells me something, and I'm... And I... I didn't even think of it or I don't understand it. I gauge and go, what is that you need me to do right now? What what did you just say
have that... What I'm not seeing? What was it that I didn't just... I I will engage that. Because clearly, the person outside of me saw Or felt something that maybe I'm not aware of, and that's a beautiful thing. And I think the other thing is people miss opportunities because they hear something. They don't like the way it sounds. They think it's wrong. They just go, you know what. My my coach said something I didn't my therapist said something. Like, you know what? My friend said something,
my lover, it doesn't matter. Maybe that's the thing you needed to hear to rattle whatever's is in your way out so we can get to the clarity and we can then confront it together, and we can create solution and evolution happens between us. So... He, we just solved all the world's problems just now. No. I happy about that. Oh, my goodness. Ego and the evil and all the other things Got Ego. Yeah. Ego is relationship killer.
At Let's get into military. So you decide it's time to you said you were still doing the bowl writing during military. So when did you make that decision and being a legacy I get that. But what was the the moment that he went, oh, this is my new path. Well, you candidly speaking in full transparency, it was It was a 50 50 thing where my brother, and my middle brother and I, my dad introduced us. We were in our Boxing Club in Anaheim, California.
There was a gentleman there who was a gunner sergeant in marine corps, and I'll don't forget him Ed Caustic with his name. And my dad say, hey, Ed runs program, prep for a Junior Program called the Devil pops. He's like, you guys have wanna do it. It's like kinda... You know, we were in high school football at the time. You were getting ready for Varsity as a sophomore and Was like, yeah. Let's do it. You know?
So let's go do it. So we got into that program 12 week training program, and then 2 weeks, we did a 2 week boot camp camp tunnel in California We away from our family for 2 and, you know, 15 years old, I think, at the time where whatever it was. And we fell in love with the military. Being around those, you know, those drill instructors the bring corps and how it was all all... This is this is awesome. My brother and I decided, you know what? Instead of trying to figure out college or
we're gonna play sports. What you what you think about military. So we had... Literally had a conversation together about it? And I was like, well, papa, both grandparents pop grandpa grandfather both served and world war 2. D day, vets as well. Uncles were Vietnam, Green brave, things like that. You know, my dad was a foreman, So we have all these men and our families serve the notes military all combat veterans. Maybe we should consider that. You know? Or
like, yeah. Let's talk to data about it. It got to the point where we were playing with the idea for a year or so because we weren't old up to join yet. And I was still riding bulls and My dad didn't like that. And I just... You know, I think I turned 17, and I got into a place where my dad was just like, okay. You have to make a decision. What do you wanna
do? You you're gonna throw away a professional baseball career because he had scout from, like, you know, different colleges that we're looking at me? He's, like, do wanna do? And I said, I like what I'm doing. This is... This is... Just makes me feel alive. I I am who Am here. Cowboy hat, you know, the whole 9 yards had that you... The the hawk feather in it. I was just... I embraced the whole culture. And I think there was a moment where I got
into a a fist fight school. With a guy who made fun of poke fun at my cowboy if you will. And basically a how I expel because III beat them up. And my dad was, like, okay, enough enough to decide what you're gonna do. And I said you what, maybe I need to join the military. Maybe I need a little more discipline in my life. I even said that to myself Was like, what did I say that? And my dad was like, great. And my brother goes, I'm gonna do it too
when I get old enough. So we we just committed to that 1. I think that was that those coming to a head moments you know, it's almost like, you know, you're. It's like we've we've crossed the Rub. We can't really turn back. My dad the next thing I know I think a week after that. He had a recruiter at our inter table, an Army recruiter, and I sat down with our recruiter to explore my options, job, qualifications, etcetera. He's like you're still in high school. What
do you wanna... You can join the Army of reserves. I said, let's do it. I can get some experience. So at 17 years old. I joined the United States Army Reserves as a reserve active reserve. I went a boot camp between my junior and senior year high school, so I got that training experience. Came home, went to drill once per month, so I drove myself at 1 week per month. Down to Camp Pedal from Morris County. Those 2 or 3 days at a time that we had to go
do drill. Getting the experience of Pt formation. I told my first sergeant, and I said, you know, I I wanna jump out airplanes to go to arrange school I wanna be in an army ranger. That's that's kind of where I wanna really go do high speed stuff, shoot guns and, you know, go fight bad guys. He's, like, yeah, you don't belong in the reserve. So what I graduated, I signed the paperwork. I think March the... That year of my graduation 19 98 to go active duty. And,
I left home right afterwards. And my brother I went joined the infantry, became, common infantry served with the hundred Airborne division out of the Rock 28 7 infantry regiment as a mo specialized in moore gun systems, and my middle brother joined right after me. He became an Army. He was actually gonna go being navy seal, interesting cd enough. But because of his wrestling in this high school football, Allstate state wrestler and football player, he had had some me.
So the navy was like, I don't think you'll make it through buds and he was like, okay, well, I just go get my black brain, my my rangers school and he'll be special operations over here. He did that. And then my youngest brother decided he wanna be like his older brother said he joined the navy when he got old enough. He became a cor. Wow. So if all 3 of us served during the Global war terrorism. Almost stayed in. I had 5 years and 2 months active activity 5 years of 5
months equity. I'm gonna stayed in, but there's a lot of a lot of other stuff we could talk about for hours hours about that, but you know, it was a great run. And you did 3 active tours combat I did, Kosovo. I went to kosovo in 2000. I was during the... What they call operation joint guardian, I was part of Task force Falcon.
So as humanitarian aid peace keeping operation over there, of course other things went down that we participate participated and right after, the 19 99, the whole campaign with the Janet genocide the epic Cleansing that was happening over that region the Balkans. So they sent us over there. We relieve 80 second airborne when we got over there And then I came home. I got promoted early to E4I, you know, I did a bunch of schools and things like that. And I got decided to
re list. So I re for 3 more years, and started of trade for ranger school, and then September eleventh happened. Ever all our schools got postponed, so then we could go. And we went to work. Went to combat, Afghanistan it's been some 7 months of there came home 7 months after I got home, we moved Iraq and certain Iraq. Even though you've been trained a high heaven, and you have a concept of what's going to happen, that must have shifted as you were going through it in real life.
That's a good... That's a really good way to put that. That's a great way to phrase that question is you can train as much as you want. But until you get put in the fire. You're really not gonna know but you're can... You're capable of and that's so true. It's real quick before I answer that questions, it's like, I, you know, I still shoot. You know, I have guns and I like to go shoot. And I... My buddy and I who was a former navy guy. He
said the same thing. He said, you know, a lot of guys like to carry pistols, You know, the the culture now is all about, you know, carrying your you know, concealed pistol with a laser dot on and every goes the rage. Every wants to do the shooting the high speed do the competitive shooting courses, but majority of people have never been put in a situation where they've had to use their weapon in a self defense manner or Get into a gun fight. A lot of people don't know what they're capable of
in a gun fight. You can train all you want to. Until you have that experience, training sometimes in the initial phases of bi first altercation, all of your training It's almost like it erupt and goes out the window for a few minutes before it all kinda comes back and everybody gets focused. Gun fights are not what Tv Tv makes them out to be what people think they are, the movies, even when you hear stories about other their combat veteran stock podcast podcasts.
It's it's it usually chaos right out of the gate. And when you get a rocket shot at you a grenade thrown in your con, you guys buddy's got hitting the chest coming off of, an aircraft into a high del z by Nike 47, and he hits a ground gets up keeps running. But until you start experiencing those things, It's amazing though how you can easily fall back into training though. I would say that's where training to the hilt does pay dividends even if it's chaos in that brief moment with the first...
Gunshot is because you naturally you calibrate to the chaos. So my first altercation my very first weird altercation was kosovo on an operation, I went on, but Didn't get I didn't get hit. We didn't get engaged in any gun gunfire, but we almost did. The second time I got into someone was in Afghanistan in my first combat operation in the mountains of Afghanistan with... It's kinda like the light ski should be able to tell
band. They're pop s us from different hindsight sites and things like that. And I had to send more more gun system. Had said more rounds down range to stop the the threat and kinda take care of our guys. And I remember hearing the width of some of those ak rounds flying by, you know, our position and hitting the dirt. And and then hearing, kinda, like, the mortar rounds going off in the distance they were shooting at us. And and it's interesting is the first moment of chaos.
Everybody's kinda like, going okay, where is it coming from? Every orient themselves. And then when everybody clicks. You wanna talk about the United States military being, a, well organized mechanism and combat? It clicks. And when it clicked, it's, like, we turn into this this precision machine that was capable of doing our job proficient. So that as we are engaged. It's like, around rounds of go around you, nobody flinch. Nobody thinks about the anymore We're just doing
what we're trained to do. We're moving through it. We're here in our radio renewed communication and chatter, getting rounds down range, putting he borders on target, you know, shutting down key complex systems. You know, ending the targets that are out there kinda causing chaos around us. And then when it's done, it's almost like you get the adrenaline and dump. And then
that's like, long range stuff. I think when I got into some stuff in Iraq when I got into is, close course stuff in Iraq a little little bit of stuff, ambush things like that. It gets even more in intense and it... I I can't even explain it. So it's it's, like, go back to bull writing. It's most more an advanced version of that wild new introduction to chaos and unknowns. I remember the con that we were all got ambushed, and the 3 grenades they threw into the conway, hit couple of my buddies.
They got travel. They didn't die. They're were good. Thing thank god it. But it's crazy how you... It feels different when you're really close and personal with these guys. And it's... You're facing the ultimate evil. You're truly facing the worst of the worst when it comes to human beings. And I think that's where I'm glad we train as as well as we do is because when you were dealing with that, there's only 1 or 2 outcomes there. Either they're dying for the country or
you are. So at the end of the day, it pays off the to sweat a lot more in training so that you... You know, again, that's saying goes you bleed less word. I think that's where what relief stuck with me was I can still feel the the energy or the emotions of that situation 20 years later of those situations that I've got. Yeah. There are people that all they wanted to do was was kill us. It doesn't matter. That... And they were using innocent people. I, And and then using women, pregnant women to
blow up our checkpoints. I crazy to experience the worst of the worst in the world in a very intimate setting like that, and it changes your whole outlook of life. Some answer. Hope that answer your question. Yeah. No. Absolutely. I I think I am fascinated by how the military handles basically, they're... The job you have to create killing machines. You... That's what... That's the job. Sure. And then how do you take those killing machines?
Like, oh, how does someone sit you down and prepare you, hey, what, it's... I remember when I bought my first gun. And when I lap my first gun, I really had to sit with myself and think, am I willing to kill someone someday because owning this having this means that that answer has to be yes, or I don't... I shouldn't own this thing because of reality, and in some respects, I think even having a car is like that. Sure. You're in a car, that is it
kills a lot of freaking people. You know, It's that same thing. So I'm curious about how does the military specifically as in this case, the army sit you down and say, here's the deal. You are going to be putting scenarios where everything that you were raised to believe, which is don't Thou, Not kill. Yeah. How are
you... And, whether you're religious or not, that's sort of to the golden rule isn't ingrained in all of us, how does 1 flip that switch other than, I guess saying the psychology of their bad, we're good. And then how do you un. That when you come home. Well, that a lot of questions all 1. It's good. I'm am gonna let that perk late in my mind so I can deliver good enough information for for you and people. I I think you have to be... I would say that people that are built
with the... From a different fabric that joined the military in the... And choose the combat arms at jobs and it was They know. You know already. I I grew up again, in the eighties watching 18 was 1 of my favorite shows going up. They were, you know, the green raise. I got, you know, got away with all that. I loved different shows like that. I love learn of military movies that I watched. Remember top gun came out all of it. We already inherit the... Delta. So Chuck Norris.
Like, it was, like, always cool to see these movies, you knew though growing up that if you join the military, the military a mechanism for combat. That's the overall I would say theme. I think if you don't know that, then, you've been living under a Iraq. But the military is designed for warfare. They're designed for protecting and defending and assert offensive as as we need to for a purpose.
So when we join, I had stories already from my grandfather being a d day vet fighting the Nazis to my dad being in Vietnam, Cor in Vietnam, my uncle who was a green Brain in Vietnam, Mac b song specific, which is a little bit more elite group of that that that era hearing some of the worst stories over Scotch that I would drink with him. Like, it's it's amazing as when you become old enough to to choose that, You know you're getting
into. Now you can choose jobs in the military that will kinda keep you little bit more away from that type of environment. However, we're all first and foremost rifle. So you all go to basic combat trading for a reason. And global war terrorism has proven that's necessity because we had non combat arms, Mo is getting engaged in firefight. There are guys I know that don't have Ci b's like me and other fellows, they combat treatment badge. We earned from mitigation comp with the.
They have their own version of that... But their west was like supply or they were maybe a cook or they they are put in position in war where they had to defend themselves of camps brothers, etcetera. So I think the Army doesn't ask you or sit you down and tell you, hey, guess what? They just know that you better choose something that you're okay with. Because if you become... Like, I knew when I joined the, my job would be to learn how to kill
people. I understand that. Period. It's infantry. That's our job to destroy the targets that are put in front us for the enemies of the United States of America. Hundred percent get that. Grown up as a devout Catholic. Right? Grown up in the buy that we're Dal shall Kill. That was 1 where I had to actually learn getting that a military. Learning about... Well, what what is the difference then? Because did I just do something really bad? Even though I wanna know
I'm defending my country. I joined selfless served the oath to this nation to my family, I did it under god, I did it for my family, my brother and my loved ones. And I found out the distinction is that it is not the same as just murdering someone. There is a completely different parameter that's there when it comes to the defense of one's nation for a very specific cause, from for Morals values for Freedom, Liberties. There's
I was like, okay. I was okay with that after after I learned that through some of the chaplain I talked to in the military after our first combat rotation, but it's interesting. It affects everybody differently. So I'm not gonna say that I didn't have my own rage issues coming home and wanting to... Like, I like to fight, and I wanted to get get into some of these things that you're and there. But everybody has their own experience in war and everybody's affected differently more.
It's not 1 size fits all with post traumatic stress or combat trauma or whatever it is because I know guys that have seen death and destruction and aren't are not as they're not as broken if you will, if as you would think they would be. If anything, getting out of the military going into the second part question. How do you d program or get someone ready? I think leaving in the military and not doing we job anymore it it causes more stress on a shoulder
than the lore sometimes can. I think it's like, we tie our identities to that job. We become part of this brotherhood, we we we unite for 1 purpose of 1 mission. Talked to Navy Seal about this. He goes, yeah. He goes, you missed it because you had guys the left and right of you that you could trust with your life, and you guys were all focused on the same mission and you guys were selfless. In a civilian world, everyone's selfish.
Everyone's out for themselves. So I think that's a twofold answer there whereas nobody prepares you for what you're gonna have to do. That's what training is for. And that is what your oath is. That's what you swear to. I'm willing to defend those that cannot defend themselves from the rights, liberties and freedoms that we cherish and hold valuable in our in in, in our world. And I'm willing up to including giving my life and or taking day life to do that. You come to terms with that. And
my brother and I talked about it. He, you know, has had a lot more direct action because he was a ranger experience with done fights and killing people bad eyes. I had my own fair share. We'd we talk about it. He was completely affected a lot differently than I was. So And then when we both go, you know what, we miss it because it it affects
us trying to go to school. You get out you're your older person, you're going to college with your younger kids and you're sitting there and you're like, I admit you're like I... This is what I am now. Okay. I kinda... I wanna go back and do that because I had at lease the structure and the discipline, and I had team, and I had all this mission is purpose. And a lot of guys that served, you know, you listened to to least some of these over operators that get out 20 plus years
later. They're on these podcasts. Sean Ryan talks with a lot of these guys etcetera. They say the same thing. It's like, I... Who am I now. I leave and now I don't know when I'm gonna... Like, that I was that was me. I... The job was me. I was a delta operator. Was a ranger. I was a seal. I was a green ray. I was an infantry men, airborne infantry. I was now when what am I supposed to be.
And that I think messes with a lot of men... A guy, especially to the guys, their heads because men tied in legacy to jobs they do, and they don't know how to elegantly transition. I think it takes having the right sports systems in place and having the right people around you that can continue you and push you in the right direction. So you realize that is not who
you are. That's what you did, and you can apply and par those skills and those attributes to other jobs or the things in the world, and you can still live the same life of principle and carry the scars that you carry without actually having to worry about whether or not you are living the like you were meant to live. And I think that's the biggest piece to it is you get out, you go through the process agreement, lost buddies
of mind. You go through the process of the death you've seen process of about taking a life. You process that. You pray on it. You you heal from me. You go to psychology... The psychology. You do all the therapies. You do as much as you know you feel
what we're drawn to. To just understand it and how it's affecting you as a human, and then you confront the demons of it, and you allow that to resolve big parts of those stresses so you can actually move forward in life, and you can show up and perform in relationships and get other jobs. Some veterans don't have that. They miss that step, and that's why you see them struggling.
Is they don't have that, and they're they're they they don't have someone that can confront it, push them through and make them experience. They don't wanna look at the demons anymore. They just let the demons hide in the corner, let it affect them and they just kinda live the life kinda unfortunately, in a bad place and where a lot of us go 22 a days unacceptable. Right? But that those people are doing that. And So it's it's interesting. It's very interesting to
experience. That's for sure. Yeah. And I have some friends, unfortunately, that are that do struggle. Certainly. It... It's it's weird. Know I read a lot about, especially the younger generation, and I get what they're saying. Getting, you know, that we don't wanna fight these wars, and the thing that's complicated about it. Look. Nobody nobody wants to go to war. Nobody wants that. Even if you're raised... I mean, look, I saw Top gun and I was ready to say. Who wasn't. I was on the edge white
z the time. Yeah. Right? Right think who doesn't get... That's why the military helps pay for movies like that because it it gets us Right fight a recruiting tool. Absolutely it's us site. Yeah. Now we are on... We are in a new era, And I get the the understanding of why should I be sent to fight these battles. I get that on 1 hand, certainly. And but the unfortunate reality is even in 20 24, nothing changes with humanity it just doesn't, and there's always gonna be
somebody out there wanting to kill you. Not you the royal you. Let's just use United States of America as the you. Do you? It's it's just... That's the reality. And if there aren't people willing... That willing to to to take that fight to take up that sacrifice, then there's big trouble ahead. There is. I know that intellectually, Yes. It's hard to explain that. And I get... That's like I get both sides of the argument. Sure. I do take but but it sort of leaves out.
Reality just because there's a bunch of people that don't wanna do this. Doesn't mean it's not gonna keep having. Right. Exactly. And I such a good point you brought up because I've had this in my mind constantly the last year and a half. I hear it all the time across social media posts and people legacy military families. Everyone is saying don't join the military It's the worst leadership ever, you don't go find global general awards. It's like, okay, guys. Gals. I understand
that argument. I do too. But here's the other side. Like, you you'll probably appreciate this. Here's my argument for it. We have never not had greedy political ul motives in any conflict. We've ever been a part of. Ever. If anyone thinks that we've ever fought 1 single board that has been 100 percent, all altruistic based on Freedom Liberty and Happiness. Period and a story America.
They're delusional. Yes. To delusional. The difference now in 20 24 is that it because of social media and technology advancements and global changes. We are now more exposed to the other side of the veil than we have ever been before. We see the ambitions of politicians and greedy corporations and bad public public figures. And we see children dying and we see what the what the results are. Yeah. We see that. All of it combined together is just being shoved in our face all 1 time. Mh.
World war 2, there was motives. Vietnam, hundred percent. There was a lot of. I mean, all the desert storm. All, we galore terrorism. It's... I'm gonna say it my war as well, it just I look at this way is you made a very valid point I wanna just bring that home a little bit more is. If we don't have people who are still willing to sacrifice and actually step up to the challenge and to serve, not for that But for the other factors of why we all serve to begin with.
We all, every person is ever served military, I guarantee you awesome. Why did you join? I the majority of them, I would say, Not now. But the more Would say it's, like, because I wanted to to to do something through something greater than me. I wanted to selfless serve my community. I wanted to give back to my country that I was born in. I I've heard so many real really patriotic things. There are some people like, I went to college money.
That's them. Yeah. Majority? Directly, the military certainly turns toward the poor and says, hey, you're our people, and that's fucked up. We all know that. Yes. We do. We do. And that's not... Yeah. Because it's not like a rich, the whole, ultra wealthy or I put their kids please. I think there was a, gentleman I I spoke with the other day too. He talked about. He said, Yeah. That's why it... And,
oh, yeah was the navy guy. He says the United Kingdom is less likely to go to war He's writing in a dis... Because he's a Phd for history, and he's right in dis rotation on why America is always gonna be primed to go to war more than, let's say the Uk. And that's because They already have status in the armed forces over there. These guys are all for royal families are all wealthy. So when they go to where they come home, they they kinda go back to their normal life, but when we go to
war, we can be poor. We come home and we get these out boys and these parking spots and we get always these accolades it... So that could always will put us on this competition agenda where we're always gonna be in position always gonna fight these. We're more likely to fight worse. That's 1 piece of it. I thought that was pretty brilliant way to put it. Yeah. It's really interesting.
The other piece to you go back to your question the or your thought here was If we don't have people those still willing to serve their country to say, look. I don't like this over here, but I still know there's good here. And I wanna serve this still to protect it. You're right. We're we're dire straits. If at some point, it's gonna get worse than it as now where we're only gonna continuously have bad people in the military, they're gonna deter aid it with all of their agendas.
And then we're gonna have good people getting out, and we're no longer gonna have a force that's gonna be worthy of defending our our borders, and our 4 policies, etcetera, We're not gonna be able to be what we once were. And and then we're gonna be a place where now we're vulnerable. And we're capable... You know, in a position where people can do a lot of bad things to us, and it's gonna deteriorate the United States from within, which is the only
way you can take us down. And I think that's the argument there Is like, Don't wanna go get die for in a affordable more. Dude. Nobody wants to die or anymore. I my buddy the guy had buy an Rpg and I wrecked didn't wanna die for for Iraqi freedom. You know what I mean? But He did. So he did what he was asked to do because we don't have the choice we sign up. We're not like, I won't go to Afghanistan, but I won't go to Iraq. It doesn't happen that way. We were gonna go where we're needed.
If you can go in with the idea and the mindset that I'm doing something that for the greater good here, even if it's a short period of time, maybe we needed to start challenging veterans and start challenging other capable men and women to at least get into the fight for a short period
of time. Really quality leadership back into the military can actually change the culture back to a place where we are war fighters, not worried about people's feelings, and we can actually sustain the military until we can figure out how to fix this political debacle that we've got going on and we can change it. From that perspective, you need the military to be strong. And I think that's the piece And I I'll throw this I'm gonna throw listen to hat here as I'm in fact in the process
of potentially re listing to the military. So at 44 years old as a, grown up in a patriotic household, love my. I love, you know, what I've was able to be born into. I was able to grow up in. I've served my country I've seen the ups and downs and good about. I know what the military is. So I'm going in with my eyes wide open. I'm not an idiot.
But I'd being called to be pulled in my heart, something's I'm my heart time I need to go back and I've talked to so many people like, we need good quality people to come back in to help... I would say it's almost like, prop up the failing leadership, prop up the failing policies and kinda get us back on track. And I've talked to some other bets that are, like, I'm willing to do it too. So there are a lot of veterans like, you know what? Will they take me? And, yes, at your,
you know, they're... They'll age waiver you if you've already served. They subtract your active duty by your biological age and they make you that age. They age waiver. You past the physical you can get the contract you want, and go back a server you wanna serve. So I'm willing to do that because I feel like we need mentorship for these younger generations going in right now. We need older guys who had the combat experience the leadership experience. I've been running my own business almost
as 15 years. I can bring it in into this perspective were to help mold some of these younger kids coming in, so they don't get lost in the pipeline of the military and fall victim to anything but what they were signing up to do. And I think that... It's gonna... But it's gonna require immense, sacrifice and personal courage. And require people to set their egos down and go, you know what? Let me let me be a little bit more objective with what, you know, this is intel here. So I'm glad you
brought that up. Yeah. And especially because a lot of the people that are being recruited in. Unfortunately, are bringing in agendas that
I do not represent when used... When you decide to serve and tell me if I'm incorrect here, but when you decide to serve the military, you're serving all of the United States of America, not just your favorite religion, not your favorite, you know, color, not your favorite creed or your favorite sexual orientation or you are protecting and serving the entirety of the United States of America and its constitution And yeah everything that that
stands for. Yeah. And I think, unfortunately, there was... I don't know how many. I don't track of the stats, but there is a faction of military people that are coming in that are, like, I'm gonna fight and make sure that none of those people ever get to lit... You know, that of thing. And that's dangerous. Is is at the point.
No. You don't need to do. And that's the other thing you don't need to sometimes The confrontation to change things that you feel is not not voting well for something that you value or cherish, doesn't need to be so direct action. You know, you don't need to go into and Be like I need to combat this leader who's acting this way. Sometimes getting in there and doing your job exceptionally well, creating real leadership transformation by exam... By an example of
it, and it in... It's almost like encouraging other the people to follow suit through your actions and not your words, right? Deeds not words, that naturally will evolve whatever dysfunction you might have noticed going on in there. You don't See. I think people get to help at on it Well, again, it's like, they they have this, like, righteous purpose and they go, you know what? It... But is it a good righteous purpose? Where is it just a personal thing that may... There are a lot of things
the military is doing. I don't like either. I'm... But my job is not to go in there and go, hey, you, you can't do that. My job is, hey... If I go back in, I'm gonna be the best version of me as this guy that I have become, this leader that I... Whenever I can include and share with these young men and women, and I'm going to let that. Birth, whoever they are, so that that naturally influences
the ranks. And I think... But there is some moments where you do have step up and be confrontational and go, you know what? No. We're not gonna worry about that right now because I actually diminishes the fighting capabilities here and here's why, and then you go after that that way. Discernment is the key muscle and that needs to be work. But the United States... Will we swear to oath, we swear oath to the United States constitution, and it's... That oath never ends. Period.
Even if we get out, it's to the constitution and what that... Like you said, with that encompasses. The the right, the the life Liberty and Pursuit of happiness, all of it. The bill of writes, you know, for a second or 4 all in the tenth, we are swearing it oath. That's our legion to that. Period... Not politics, not really. To a man in the office. Right. Not to a type of person who's running a this will, you
know, entity over here. Not to a faction of people who are extreme on 1 side or the other of the aisle to that. And I think we've lost or may because of that, because we've become hypo and hyper tribal that we've been and that everybody is focused on their own candidates. It's become selfish. People are losing resiliency when it comes to emotional maturity people don't like the way things are said. They don't like the way people are saying them. They don't like certain things.
I think that's the problem. And we have to defend it. But you do... Here's the thing. You only change the military. It self we're on that subject. You've only changed the dysfunction of the military that's happening from the inside. With leaders who understand. Yeah. Can't do it from the outside. With leaders. You can't you can spend all day long on Twitter x or wherever they
call it. You can spend all day on their complaining all day long and talking about this and that and post articles and re retweeted and yelling and tell people don't do it. It's the worst thing ever. That's not gonna change it. It's just not going to. You gotta be willing to put... You gotta put skin in the. And if you're not willing to do that, honestly, it's just all gas it's just coming hot gas and granted, there are some people are making some changes through their efforts.
But again, I've I've seen more smoke and than I've seen action, and I'm like, guys. We we gotta step up. Yeah. It's much easier to talk than it is for action. That's the easiest thing in the world. Even and if you... Even if you've done it, Even You've done it already. You've paid your dues. So what I have too. I'm willing to go do it again. Yeah. I'm willing to. Wiley, you're fun to talk with. Thanks Appreciate that.
Tell people how they can find you and there may be some emails coming your way to talk to you about you know, everything that we've discussed here Sure. From your perspective because I, I can't speak for you, obviously. So tell people about how they can find you if they want to. Yeah. I I mean, I threw together our website a couple years ago, W g dot com. It's got just all the really interesting philosophies. It touches on some of the stuff you and I talked about today.
Videos, etcetera. Just a place for people to kinda get a 1 dimensional understanding a little bit about who I am. I... I'm more of an interpersonal kinda guy. I like conversations on phones and emails, and... I'm not a transactional person. So I'm not... This is not about... I don't sell myself. I don't go out go, hey, I a business. You wanna work with me? This is not my... That's
not... However ever operated. It's always been just relationship, dynamics, building relationships, meeting people, you know, right people will always be the right people the right time timing, I'm not, you know, stress about that either. So I... You know, what people think that, oh, gosh is another guy who's just out selling some coaching because that's not what I do either.
This reality is I am here to just share insights and philosophies and understanding about what might be you know, hindering people's performance and and and and messing with their lives and helping them challenge the status quo challenge what they think is right wrong or different or comfortable or uncomfortable and and realize there's so much more that you are missing if you don't have the right types of of people confronting those realities with you. So Y mcgraw dot com,
I have my account. At twitter at y mcgraw. I'm hardly on there, but... You I sometimes jump on there have some interesting back and forth with people post podcast podcasts and stuff like this. Linkedin gen dot com. I have that too. Yes I'm trying to think all the social media stuff I put together. I spent 12 years behind the scenes without any any digital presence. So it's kinda... Those were the days. Those
those are the days. The pan pandemic changed all that for us, but, those are the 3 spots people can find me, and of course, my contact information is there if anybody, anybody wants to just chat. I'm I'm always open for it. Yeah. And I'll, I'll put links on hey human podcast dot com as well. And I really appreciate your time. You're great to chat with. I... You have an open door anytime you wanna come on show. I really appreciate you happy. It's been fun.
We're to maybe doing it again soon. Yeah. I talk about this stuff all day. Well, I'm happy to go round too. But I mean, you're fun to talk to you as well. You ask really good questions that really allow more information to kinda pour out It's good. Thank you. Have a beautiful day. You too. Thank you for listening everybody. Bye. See you. Bye. Bye. Rate to review and subscribe to hey human podcast podcasts on itunes. By if I I hurt whoever you get your podcast. Thanks. Bye.