Hey, humans. How's it going? Susan Ruth here. Thanks for listening to another episode of Hey, Human podcast. This is episode 429, and my guest is Tim James. Tim is a hit songwriter with songs penned for Toby Keith, Leigh Bryce, Jojo Siwa, George Strait, Billy Ray Cyrus, lots more. It goes on and on and on. An accomplished performer as well, Tim has performed all over the world. He recently published his memoir, Going Crazy, Left Foot, Right Foot Breathe, a
funny and raw journey through his life. I've known Tim a very long time. He's a great guy with a sharp mind and a razor sharp wit. I think you're gonna really enjoy this episode. He's a fun guy to talk to. Hey Human Podcast is now on YouTube under official Susan Ruth. I'm on Patreon at susanruthism. I'm on TikTok at susanruthism. Check out heyhumanpodcast.com for links and to learn more about my guests and the show. Check out susanruth.com to learn more about me and my other artistic endeavors.
You'll find out where my short film, The First, is playing as it moves through the festival tour. And check out Susan Ruthism on social media. Find my albums on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your music. Rate, review, and subscribe to Hey Human podcast on iTunes, Iheart, Stitcher, wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening. Be well. Be kind. Be love, and here we go. Tim James, welcome to Hey Human. Thank you, Susan. I appreciate you having me.
Absolutely. It's always good to see you. Well, you know, it's good to be seen at my age. We have far and few between meetings these days. Yeah. What was the no. It's not too long ago that I saw you. Where was that? In Malibu. At the house. Yeah. In Malibu. Yeah. That was fun. I love going to LA for a little while. Yeah. It's a I I love living here. I love being able to look over my shoulder and see the ocean. That's fabulous.
Yeah. I enjoy that too. You know, the traffic is always the downside, but, hey, every place you live always comes with its own set of stuff. Do you know what I mean? Nashville's got some traffic too. Right. That's what I'm saying. It doesn't matter where you go. It's got its own set of issues. One of my buddies one time was like, man, you choose to live in 10 he's born and raised here in Murfreesboro with me. He's like, you choose to live in the humidity. And I was like, dude, you live in
Daytona Beach, Florida. You've seen more hurricanes in the last 10 years. So that's what I mean. Every place has got something. So Yeah. I don't miss the bugs or the humidity. Yeah. Because I have a bug snack. They love me. I hate them. It's a it's a thing. Anyway, well, let's let's dig into you. Tell me where you grew up. Tell me what childhood was like. I grew up in Murfreesboro, Tennessee, which is about 25 miles southeast of Nashville.
Born and raised here, went to school here, went to a junior college and played basketball for a little bit, and then went to Middle Tennessee State, which is here in Murfreesboro. And, you know, after having gotten kicked out of junior college. For? I can't tell you. After having gotten kicked out of junior college and then plunking out of MTSU, I always say, it's not like it was the harbor of the south. I just didn't go.
So, yeah, I decided, you know, after growing up here and kinda getting to a place where I felt like I was kinda at a dead end, I had never been on an airplane, so I got on an airplane and went to LA when I was 20, probably 23. And, I was gonna say 6 months and stayed 12 years. Why did you go to college if you didn't want to go to college? Was that a family thing? No. I wanted to go to college, but I just wanted to go to try to play ball.
Like, I the academic portion of it for me was, like, no. I didn't me and academics don't really get along so well. You know, it's not entirely true. I love some of the classes, like, you know, any of the English classes are like, biology is in those days philosophy, but you put me in front of a nomenclature board, and I'm like a chicken staring at a card trick. I just my mind doesn't really compute that stuff that well. What were you were you a writer as a kid? Did you get into your creative
mind? I did, but I never thought about it. I just I wrote my mom, who's still living at 87, she found some old, like, poems I had written. And so I guess I did, Susan. I, growing up outside of Nashville, I think you were almost discouraged to get in the game. You know what I mean? Like, my parents knew some guys that play they were, like, session players or, you know, my dad had one kinda acquaintance he knew, and it was
always the same thing. My parents were just like, those guys are just all, you know, drunk, sitting up there smoking cigarettes and making a living, a good living as a songwriter. It wasn't it wasn't a concept that ever crossed my mind until I moved to LA. And then I started, you know, I put a band together out there, started writing,
started making trips home. The same things that sometimes I'll teach these classes, and the people that are sitting on the other side are kinda looking at me like, man, you've had some hit songs. I say, look. I was the guy sitting in that chair, and I was. Like, I literally went to my first NSAI meeting in LA. Then when I came home NSAI is National Songwriters Association for people that don't
know. Yeah. So I went to a NSAI meeting, and then when I came home here, I would go play songs for the few people that I knew, but I started ground up just like everybody else. I went to, ASCAP and BMI and made the rounds there. Those were our performance rights organizations. Yeah. It was it's been a long interesting ride, but a long interesting ride is good. Tell me about what it was like growing up in the south. There's a lot of, I think, misconceptions
about what it is to be Southern. Tell me what it was like and your reflections on that and how that shaped you. It it was great. When I grew up here, it was a town of 25,000 people. You couldn't go anywhere without seeing somebody you knew, And growing up, that is something that, that that rubbed me the wrong way, to say the least, when I was, like, in my twenties. I didn't or early twenties or even late teens. You couldn't go anywhere
without somebody knowing your business. If you did something, the next day, your parents are going, yeah. I heard that you it happened to me several times. You know, that was something that I eventually came to treasure. You know, the fact that you can see people you know, and if you need something because you're in a relatively small town, certainly in those days, not as much now, you could call somebody and get it done. But growing up here, I was one of 3 boys, very middle class.
I did not, you know, really participate in music. Like I said, I really didn't have any directions. But I think when I started writing, when I finally got to a place in life where I was like, I'm gonna write music, and I learned to play the guitar, and I started writing songs. The lyrics that came out of my mouth were small town lyrics because I grew up on a farm. I spent 4 years on a pig farm. Not that you can necessarily write a song about pigs, but you know what I'm saying.
Like, the small town stuff when I sat down with a guitar and I thought, okay. If I were to write about my life, what would that sound like? And everything I wrote sounded like a John Mellencamp song or a Garth Brooks song. So I just realized, well, I'm from the country, and this is the kind of music I enjoy. And I grew up listening more r and b, but as I got older, I realized, man, I I write country songs, and I still live in Murfreesboro when I came back from LA. I never moved to Nashville.
I wanted to stay here. Family's here. My dad passed away. But, yeah, it was a fantastic place to grow up and listen at one point, This county was the fastest growing county in the entire southeast. People come here for the school districts people come here for the pace of life and the way of life, I would say maybe to your question as well like one of the things I've discovered in terms of being Southern is, I think you and I may have had this conversation at some point. Ignorance is
not geographically based. I have been other places and heard some of the most bizarre things that I've ever heard in my life. Some of those places being just outside of LA. Right. So, you know, there's so much I love about the South. The things that I don't like are things and somebody that you know, Kimberly June, you know KJ. Yeah. I know KJ. We were just talking when we were on this trip.
And she was, like, you know, the funny thing is when you're young and you run away from whatever it is you feel that's driving you away, you realize when you get to the place that you're going, the same people are there. And as are you. Wherever you go, there you are. Right. But you know what I mean? In terms of, like, you can run from it, and at some point, you'll find some of the same characteristics and the same people in
your new town. That's just life. I've experienced that where because I've lived in a lot of places where, you know, you develop a core group of friends, and then you go to a new place and you you begin to this is a twenties kind of thing. You start all over and you start to see that, wait, you have the same well, that Joe is like this Joe or that Rima is like that Rima or that Ellen is like that Ellen.
And it's really interesting, and it reminds me of that Seinfeld episode where they're all walking down the street and they run into their their same thems coming toward them. I think friends do an episode like that too. That really it's true. There aren't that many kinds of people. We like to think of ourselves as individuals, but we still fall into the same patterns and behaviors.
Right. I think some of the things that would be more overt here to me are I'll just give you a super small example, like, when I was in LA, I'm now in the habit of I wave at most everybody. If you're just walking down the street, I just kinda and, you know, here, people just give you a hand back, and I was in Santa Monica on the promenade walking with my buddy, and I found myself kinda naturally doing this, and people are looking at me like,
he's something's wrong with his hand. He can't control that hand. He's got some sort of Tourette's or something because he just raised his hand. So, you know, things like that. But there's great people everywhere you go, and there's bad people everywhere you go. That's life. Did you grow up in a relatively liberal household, or was it more conservative? No. Definitely more conservative. Yeah. Church. Religious. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Conservative probably across the board.
Really, to be honest with you, I guess, in hindsight, I don't know that my parents were ever very, politically vocal, certainly from a religious standpoint. Again, for the most part, you, and so I shouldn't say, in some cases, you repeat what you have learned. And for me, my parents were raised in the church, so they raised me in the church. That's just come the way it rolled downhill. But, yeah, they we went twice a week.
And, again, you know, it's for somebody that grows up in that and then goes to LA. That's why I say LA was a a wonderful place for me, and I talk about it in my book. It's it's a place where you can grow up. And when I was in Venice with my buddy, right after I saw you, we were walking down the street and he said, man, I guess one of the and he's been out there now 38 years probably, although he says he's gonna move. It's one of those places where people go to reinvent themselves.
And when you're 23 from a small town and you don't know what in the world you're gonna do, LA is a place where you can go and be free to be anything. And to be honest with you, nobody gives a rip. No. It's certainly a place that anything is accepted that you get to really be who you are or be several people of who you are. Did you know when you were heading this way that
you were going to find yourself? Was that a decision, or was it one of those things where you just pack a bag, you go, and fall as they may? Yeah. Probably 5050. Like, I definitely I was not gifted enough to say, yeah. I'm gonna go to LA. No. I kinda felt like for whatever I lacked in academics, my ability to look at myself and go, man, I need a change, has always been relatively good. So even when I was in my twenties, I just was like, this is a dead literally a dead end road.
And a lot of the guys and girls I went to school with, you know, if your dad was a lawyer, you became a lawyer. And if your dad owned the insurance agency, you got the insurance agency. Well, I didn't have that. So another thing that kinda motivated me to get out of here was probably like, well, I don't I mean, what am I gonna do? I I couldn't get through college, so I went to LA. Where are you in the birth order? Middle. Middle child. Uh-oh. No surprise there, What did your dad do?
My dad did a variety of things. He was really a entrepreneur, like, a a great at what he did, whatever he chose to do, but he when I was young, my dad had an insurance agent. Well, he started. He opened the 1st Nissan dealership in Middle Tennessee. It was called Datsun. That's how I'm totally dating myself, but he opened a a Nissan dealership, and he kept it for, like, 5 years. He sold it, and then he opened an
insurance agency. This is a guy with an 8th grade education, and he opened an insurance agency, did well with that, and sold that. But my dad's goal was he was a pipe smoker. So my dad was the number one collector in the United States of of smoking pipe called the Dunhill pipe.
And he had started collecting when he was a kid, and, he always wanted to open a pipe and tobacco shop, and so he did that when he was, like, probably I mean, I bet he was probably 60 when he did it, and he just said that's what I always wanted to do. So I would work for him some and so yeah. That he was he was good at as he would say, he could sell ice cubes to Eskimos. So That's inspiring that he's went after his dream at 60 and and achieved it.
Yeah. I think he and I well, my mom says we're very, very similar, but, yeah, I mean, I had my first number one song at 40, and my dad, you know, started his dream job at 60. So, you know, we're late bloomers, I guess. Well, I'm sorry your father passed. Did he die of cancer? Well, he he did die of cancer, but he was 86 years old.
So he, he, at 86, had what they thought initially was that sort of laboring cough and, they took him to the hospital and they were like, it's congestive heart failure, you know, because you're starting to get the rattle. And, then they came in the next day and they were like, hey, it's lung cancer. And I my older brother also passed away, but my 2 brothers and I, my mom sat there and I said, man, that's for me, that's out of the question. Like, chemo and radiation for
an 86 year old? No. So he can live, what, 3 months as a, you know, in a bed? So we all kinda agreed that was not an option, and they said, well, he'll probably last about 3 months, and he lasted 3 months to the day. He was but he and I were super close. I always tell the, story of when my dad was laying in a hospice bed in the house where I grew up with my mom. And and so my 2 brothers and my mom are out here and I'm back there with my dad. And I'm just kinda sitting there on my
by my dad's bedside, and we're talking. And I was like, my dad hadn't said anything in 3 days. And so finally, I just kinda whispered like, hey, dad. And my dad looked up and opened his blue eyes. And, I just said, I love you, and thanks for being my dad. And my dad said, I love you too. Thanks for being my son. And then my dad died. Wow. True story. Yeah. But, you know, if those are the last words you get, I don't know how it gets any better because we're all gonna die. Absolutely.
Was he aware enough to talk about mortality with you or anyone around him? Did he have an understanding and acceptance of it, especially since he was a religious person? Yeah. Absolutely. I think he was probably in a space where he was a religious guy his whole life. He believed in the hereafter. And, yeah, I fully believe he was, you know, as ready to go as you're gonna get.
I think everybody my my take on that is sort of everybody says that until it actually happens, and you're, like, kicking and screaming, like, I don't wanna go. So I think that's true.
Yeah. That's happened to me too. Like, again, in my in my copper selling book, I talk about there's I've had a a couple of instances where, I was like, man, I am gonna I'm about to check out here and, yeah, you you fight and scratch and claw and do your best to I I know you want people to read the book, but can you share an anecdotal or a cliff note even of that? Several times. When I first moved to LA, I was there for about 6 months. I got mugged, and I got hit in the head with
steel pipe. So they hit me in the across the head, and then when I went to the ground, they hit me on each side of my jaw with this big, probably 3 foot pipe. So it busted my head wide open and then I had to have my jaw wired shut for 20 weeks. And I you know, I'm £175. I was down to about 130. I came home after it happened and always said never saw my dad cry and I got off the plane and I look like, you know, it was
a bad, like, see horror film. I had, like, some really, you know, crappy bandages wrapped around my head and these braces, literally braces on my teeth. In those days, the way they would wire your jaw shut is they would just put braces on your teeth and they run these wires up into your mandible, then they snap them and pull them down. So my dad I got off the plane and my dad just stood there for a minute and then he just started bawling.
And I was like, okay. This is this is a bad deal right here. Did you think you were going to die in that moment? What goes what goes through someone's head when that scenario is happening? That that time, I all I remember, and again, this is in the book, is saying to myself, survive. That's all. I mean, the literally the blood was rushing out of the side of my head like a river. And so I kept thinking to myself if I can just get to some place where somebody can see me,
which I did. And then a couple other instances where I was literally in the Pacific kayaking on a Saturday with my buddy whose house you were at. And, you know, the Pacific can go from, like, beautiful to just all of a sudden I'm mad as hell in a heartbeat. And so we were way too far out in kayaks. Eventually, these waves pound and pound and pound and I got thrown out of the boat. The back of the boat flipped to me kind of the at little point right at the top of the boat. Flipped me in
the back of the head. I was like, I'm drowning. I literally was at and this happened twice. And the same thing, all I can tell you is all used and this is what I was kinda joking about earlier. I think most people go, yeah, I'm, you know, I'm ready. I'm good. And then when it hits you in the face, you're like scratching and clawing, like, no. I ain't trying to go yet. Yeah. I definitely feel that. How did your brother pass?
He passed he had a stroke 2 years ago, went in the hospital, and he just, you know, typical stroke symptoms. And I guess 3 days after he's in the hospital, he had a massive cardiopulmonary shutdown, which means everything quit working. And, and then he basically, for all intents and purposes, was brain dead, if if that's the common jargon. He was he was brain dead, and his wife, they had she'd already he'd already signed a DNR. So, yeah, it was awful.
2 it was 2 years ago, I wanna say May the something, but my 87 year old mom, you know, that's that's the one you don't want. That's a lot of loss for a mama. Oh. Oh. That's why I try to drive carefully. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm sorry about what are your dad's and brother's name? My dad's name was Edsel, e d s e l, like the car. Yeah. And but well, believe it or not, my dad's name was Edsel Ford James. What? That's great. Yeah. I swear. And everybody here knew him. But, again, it was a
small town. They'd be like, oh, there's our Edsel. My older brother's name was Craig. Is this smoke shop still around? No. Uh-uh. Dad kept it for probably 10 years. He sold it to somebody else. They kept it for years. And at some point, they turned it into some other something. So and it's on the square. It's right off the square, Murphy's bro. So I go by there. I just probably too many memories for me to just
look over there and go, oh, man. What did you do with my I think it's like a Republican headquarters or something. Okay. What was do you think some of the best advice your father has gave you over the years? Probably if I I without me, like, giving you the specifics, I would say, you know, the songs that I wrote with Doug Johnson called Love Like Crazy is basically which was the number one song for Lee Brice is basically the advice my dad would give. It's super simple.
The course is be a best friend, tell the truth, and overuse I love you. Go to work, do your best, and don't outsmart your common sense, and never let your grandees get lazy and love like crazy. So that's probably I can't, you know, my dad was not necessarily a man of a lot of words, but he told me several times he'd seen me have a few hit songs, and he said, I'm proud of you. I mean, you've done it. And I was like, well, that's as good as it gets in the
South. You're not you're not gonna get, like, the arm around, and let's let's walk and talk about your accomplishments. My my parents never they're always like, we don't want you to get above your raisin now. And I was like, why? Get above your raisin. That's such a classic southernism. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's my dad had a ton of them, but I've heard that my whole life. My mom, who's again, she's 87, still living. She I could give you a couple of funny stories, but my mom would say, like,
you know, don't get above your raising. And when I had a I had that number one song with George Strait and the media we were at BMI, and the media came they were like, you know, so my older brother was living, the younger brother's here, my mom and dad are here, and, brother and my dad had already passed, but my older brother had been at the Nissan factory for well, when he retire, he had been there 31 years, but he had been there about 26 years at the time.
And so the press is coming up and they're like, Tim, that's great. You had George Strait 60 of them, and I was like, yeah, man. I'm just so floored. It's wonderful. I'm blessed. Yada yada yada. And they turned to my mom, and they say, miss James, I mean, how cool is it that Tim had George Strait's 60th number one song? And my mom said, well, I mean, that's good. That's good.
But, you know, Craig has been at Nissan for 29 years, and he got a little she didn't want, you know, she didn't want me to get too much attention without my siblings getting some attention. And I've I've tried to explain to my mom a 1,000,000. I'm she still doesn't get I'll give you another and you'll laugh at this. Last night, I went to see Stapleton at Bridgestone and, you know, stay I've got a couple I got a cut on Stapleton's new album, and I got one on his
album, like, 3 albums ago. I've never seen him live, but I reached out and they gave me a couple of tickets and a couple passes. And when I talked to my mom yesterday, and I said, you know, I'm gonna go. And my mom's now mind you, this is not meant to be in any way demeaning. People don't know what they don't know. And my mom, even though I've been in this business for 30 something years, just doesn't quite
get it. So when I said, well, mama probably because I call my mom every night, you know, kind of a maybe that's a sudden thing too, but I call her at night. And I said, mom, I'm not gonna be calling you tonight. I'm gonna be going to see Chris Stapleton. And she said, well, that's great. I mean, you think he had let you get up there and sing with him? This is sounds like my parents. I was like, yeah, mama. She said, well, I mean, y'all can sing the songs y'all
wrote together. I was like, I don't think he's gonna just all of a sudden call out halfway through the first set. Like, ladies and gentlemen, let's bring up Tim James. Yeah. That's not good. Meg, when we were in Cabo, my mom I sent my mom a video of 2 orcas that breached the surface. And everybody, like, several of the girls on the boat just bawled, which I get it because I love nature. I love the animals. And and so these 2, baby and mom, just boom boom orcas out of
the water. People are freaking out. I videoed it and then I sent it to my mom later that day, and my mom didn't say like, oh my gosh, orcas or oh, look at this. Look at the look at those. Mom, all the only comment my mom had was you better not be getting in that water. Yes. I feel like we have very similar parents. Can't see the forest for the trees. I'm like, just see the beauty in it, mom, but I just said to heck with it. That's hilarious.
So your mom and dad, were they that kind of, you know, you think about couples from way back and they just sort of they go along to get along and all that stuff, but were your parents in love? I would say again, 5050. I think they were they were just they were married for 52 years when my dad passed away. So, yeah, I think they loved each other. I think it's highly possible in life to not really know what you have until you
are with not with that any longer. I think my mom who's now been 12 years without my dad. Yeah, I think she's definitely like, man, you know, I miss him. And even with people's faults or idiosyncrasies that you go, man, that's irritating as hell. I still think that, you know, if you love somebody, and I think we all learn this continue to learn this, like, if you love love is a choice.
There there will be times that you look at your mate and go, I would literally like to push you out the window, but you you have to, you know, you make a choice to stay with somebody. So that's kinda I think my parents are probably 5050 in that regard. You love someone, but you're not maybe don't like them in the moment. I asked my parents once what the secret was to being together for so long. And my dad said inertia.
And my mom said, the trick is that you can't wanna have a divorce at the same time. I love that because everybody thinks about it. Somebody's gotta be fighting for it if you know? So Right. It's really interesting. Tell me about when you really felt like songwriting was the thing where you thought, oh, yeah, this is me. This is who I am and what I'm doing. And did you ever think about doing anything else? Well, I would, I would answer those
backwards. Did I think about anything else? When I got to LA, I was very fortunate to fall in with a crowd of people that were creatives, and that was all through basketball. So again, I'm very grateful for basketball. I went and played at Parks at Beamon Park and Studio City. My home away from home for about 8 years was the Hollywood YMCA. And it was a great place with these great characters. And when I was even in sales, I would just go there and play basketball.
But the guy saw in Las Vegas, Las Vegas 2 weekends ago, my friend John Campanera is a a comedian. He had a show on NBC at the time, Clooney. I was with him when he came in and said, hey, man. I got a TV show. I think I'm finally going it's gonna make it. And I was like, oh, dude. What's that called? And he said, ER, and then I was and I went to his house. I think it was 10 years ago. I don't know. I was out there with some other buddies and they said, hey, man.
We're gonna go to Georgia's and play basketball. That became like a CIA operative, which I was, that's foreign to me now, the whole, like, you know, paparazzi and all that crap. But, no, I I I didn't think about doing anything. I was so it was so ingrained in me just to have a JOB that I kept my job. And my buddy, Dale Shores, who is a playwright, at the time, he was not a playwright. He he was just like
everybody else, kinda struggling. And I met Dale through another friend of mine here, Greg Webb, who's from Murfreesboro that had gone out there, And Greg had gotten a series in no time. He was in a movie with Johnny Cash. It was just amazing. And so we 3 eventually became roommates after I've been there about probably 3 years, and Dell came in one night. Again, this is all in the best selling not book, but, Dell came in and said, man, I want
you to come read for my play. I got my play put up, that theater theater on Kawhienga. And he said, I want you to come read for it. And I was like, dude, I'm not I've never been on stage in my life. Like, I'm not an actor. God forbid my mom hears this, but the Del said, listen, dude. The guy's from the south, and he drinks beer and chases girls. Just be yourself. And I said, yeah, that that's not that's not a compliment. So anyway, yeah, I went in, you know, and I read for it.
And, and then I just left. You know? I was like because I talk like I talk, and I real wasn't ever gonna change that. So I I went home, and then Dale got home, and he comes, you know, barreling in the front door. And he's a great guy, super talented. And he just said, man, they loved you. And I was like, who's they? And he said, the producers. And I was like, yeah, I don't know, man. Whatever, dude. And so he said, well, you got the part of
the understudy for the lead role. And I said, what's the understudy? Like, I had no idea. I was like, I don't I don't know what that means, dude. He said, well, if we fire or something happens to the lead actor, you go on. So I was like, okay, cool. And thinking to myself, this will never happen. And I was in, sales. I had
a conference in Seattle, actually. I was at a conference in your hometown, and he called me on a phone, you know, probably called the room because I don't know that's I'm showing my age, but cell phones were not so prevalent. But he, called me and said, hey, man. We fired the lead guy after 2 weeks. You go on Friday. And I was like, no. And he was like, yeah. I mean, you
got the part of the understudy. So I I rehearsed it, you know, or I, you know, learned the role or the and I had done, like, one read through, and then I went on on a Friday night at theater theater in front of, you know, a 100 whatever. It's a small theater. So I guess to answer your question that I never really said to myself, I want to be an actor.
That was never on my radar. I guess as a result of being surrounded by so many creatives, whether it be and I probably told you this before my buddy Danny Carey is the drummer in that band, Toole. My other friends are comedians and actors. It's like those guys, they were nobody. They didn't have anything going, but they were super instrumental in the fact that they would say to me, what do you want to do? And I was like, man, I think I wanna play
music. And they were like, well, why aren't you doing it? And I was like, you know, it's funny because nobody ever said that to me. So I finally decided to, you know, put a band together and start playing, and that's that's how I got started. That reminds me of a joke that my dad used to tell me that either you can't complain to to God about not winning the lottery if you refuse to buy a ticket. Right. Right. Well, trust me. I'm the guy that always bought the ticket.
Now I've got 2 kids and one of them is buying the tickets, and I'm like, oh gosh. I'm just getting paybacks. He's going after or she or they're going after music? No. She's just well, she's at sounds like a at this point when I discuss it with her, a very similar place in terms of what do I want to do. I don't know. And I didn't know either at 19. And I I don't mind the you know, when she said, I'm not sure I'm gonna go to college even though she
was a good student. She was on a championship volleyball team, great athlete. She just said, I may not go. And I said, listen. That's fine. You don't have to go to college, not for everybody, but you gotta get a JOB. How did having kids change you? Certainly wrecked my sleep. I feel like that old Sinbad Sinbad had a a bit where he was like, his son came in, you know, he's like 12. His son came in, said, I hate you, dad. You messed up my you know, he did let him do something. I hate your guts.
He said, you know, the the proper response would have been, look, you're just mad, and I love you. You're my son. Sinbad said, no. I looked at him and said, I hate you too, you little bastard. I mean, you, you know, I used to have a jump shot. I used to have hair. Look what you I ain't got nothing now because of you. You've wrecked me. It it is it's changed me, I mean, for the better
without question. Being a dad is I was telling Dean Alexander this past weekend, like, dude, the best compliment to me somebody can give you is not, oh, you're a good songwriter or you're a good is you're a good dad. Somebody says you're a good dad and your kids show that. That's to me my greatest accomplishment at this point. Yeah. And you have a son as well or 2 daughters? Two daughters. God has a way of getting even with people. I was gonna say. That's hilarious. What made you decide to write
your book? Yeah. The book is called Going Crazy, and the subtitle is Left Foot Right Foot Breathe. I started it, to be honest with you, like, 7 year 8 years ago, just as sort of the labor of love.
I was like, man because I played a show with the Bluebird, and I kinda told the story I just told you, and this lady was like, that's possibly the craziest story I've ever heard because you're from here, yet you go to LA, and then you and you work in pharmaceutical sales, you end up back here, and now you're like an award winning songwriter after the stuff you've been through and yada
yada yada. When she said that, I just thought, I'm gonna start, and I'm a believer, and I I I'm sure you are too. You know, work begets work. So when I started writing the first chapter, I just thought, and then the more I wrote over an 8 year period, the more I thought this
is pretty good. Now from a personal stamp, it it also talks about the music business, the ins and outs of it, the way I see to get in or the way I see the business developing, but more than that, it's really a story of perseverance, because whether it be, you know, me, getting kicked out of junior college and then flunking out of MTSU, then going to LA, getting hit in the head of the pipe, coming home, going back, persevering just through, you know, life in general, and then I was married
once out there in LA, my first Mulligan, that's what I like to call it for those golfers out there. We got divorced and that was a tough time, and then I came home and I started a career basically at 30 5, 36 years old. You get, you know, you get a lot more noes than you get yeses. As you know, that's kind of when you're pitching anything in the creative world, you get a tremendous amount of rejection.
Then I met a girl who sang the blues and I asked her for some happy no. I met a girl and we fell and then we got married and it was far as I knew, it was great. But we were married for 20 years together for 22, and then she decided she wanted divorce, and we have 2 children and that again, you if you take the things we've discussed, I would say, you know, just sort of wandering through life and then getting hit in the head with a pipe and then, divorce, and then just
losing my dad, losing my brother. And, ultimately, what I became much more empathetic towards during the last 8 years is people that have mental health issues. Because when people to me, and I say this in the book, when people say somebody else can't make and you may disagree, that's fine. Somebody else can't make you feel a certain way.
I disagree. Like, I would say that if in my in my personal experience, if life is rolling along in a very comfortable normal pace and all of a sudden the apple cart is completely upended, you can certainly look at yourself in the mirror and go, is this is it me? Or or what what exactly am I bringing to the table that's causing this to happen? I became much more empathetic towards again, the examples I use, one is Anthony Bourdain, like, who was I found to be a
fascinating dude. And, you know, in his last show, he's like, I'm drinking the finest wine in Greece and but I have to ask myself, would I rather be here experiencing the fine things? When I say fine, you know what I mean, or would I be would I rather be home with my daughter and my wife eating like top ramen and microwave popcorn? And he said, without question, it's the latter.
And so when you that's taken from you as a dad, when somebody says, okay, not only are we done, but and this is just that I'm not trying to run her down. The nature of divorce is that assets and custody is, in a lot of cases, 5050, which ours is and was, it causes you to and couple that just with the world today as you and I also have discussed where I've scratched my head about certain things. Then I I became much more empathetic to people that go, yes, screw it, man.
I can't handle this anymore. I'm out. I'm checking out. Now that never actually crossed my mind. You're talking about suicide? Yeah. Uh-huh. Because that's what happened with him. He was just like, you know what? I can't handle it. It's too much. Kate Spade. People that just go, you know, you know what? Screw it, man. I'm out. And again, if I'm being transparent, which I have a tendency to be,
that never crossed my mind. But I understood as I laid in the bed with 2 dogs talking to them like they're humans full on, and I'm thinking I have absolutely lost my marbles. But what I've learned to do during my going crazy period was to get up the next morning, left foot, right foot, breathe. Do you think it was really, quote going crazy unquote or do you think you were just in grief? I think grief can cause you to feel like you're going crazy.
And and, you know, I don't know that any of us are great at processing grief. The way I process grief is to let it overwhelm me and then say, I've got to try to wash this clean. A matter of fact, I told somebody some of our friends last weekend, like, years ago when I went to the Gulf Coast post divorce by myself, I was like, I you always have to walk through a little muddy water to get to the clear water. That's because the sand turns it up at the shore.
And so I thought that's kind of my that's life for me. As I always say, I gotta get through the muddy water to get to the clear, and that's that's what I did. Yeah. Having been divorced twice, do you sit back then and as you said, figure out how what you brought or did not bring, or do you think you're still learning that lesson? How does one go through life after 2 divorces, and now when you date or you meet people, does that, in the back of your head, think,
oh, this will only go downhill? Because I think a lot of us think that who have been through some traumatic relationships. How do you wrap your head around that? Well, I don't think I did anything because I'm perfect. No. No. No. No. No. I I definitely There's your trouble. Right. No. I definitely had to, you know, say, yeah, what am I not bringing or bringing to the table that's contributing to this in some way? Does it trip you up as you move forward in relationship?
Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I mean, do you find I would think you find the same thing. Like, the way I say it is, if you put your hand on a hot plate the first time you didn't know it's hot, you go, damn. And the second time, if you do it, if you do it a 3rd time, you need you might need to get that noggin checked. And for me, like, I'm I date. I've dated, and I'm dating now. It's awful. I mean, I shouldn't say that. Right? Well, we'll delete that. Right. She's great, but dating is awful. It's
just yeah. Like, I absolutely am at a place where I go, man, I don't know that I'll ever do that again. And in terms of just even opening up to somebody where you feel comfortable and you're not gonna get your feelings stomped on, that takes trust. And trust again, when you have been burned, you you lose that trust. It takes bravery as well. I think that's maybe the hardest thing is I say this a lot to not put other to not put people in prison for crimes that other people committed.
Right. That's really hard and to not do it to yourself as well. Yeah. Definitely. Definitely. So yeah. I mean, I've worked through it. I'm trying to say, you know, I don't necessarily just believe in, unequivocally trusting the universe. I think that there are things you can do or in other words, for me, I don't think any everything is work or, driven by your desire to succeed, but in my case, I say I gotta do the work.
And the best joke I ever heard was, you know, even in terms of spirituality was the guy, you know, in the kayak off the coast, the kayak goes over and he, like, he started to take on water, and he can't get the boat back. And so a guy in a kayak comes by and says, dude, are you okay? And the guy says, yeah, man. He's a religious guy. I said, yeah, I'm okay. God's got so the dude's Picoli paddles off, you know, and then, he's starting to, like, submerge and a kinda
speedboat comes by and, like, hey, man. You okay? Because, yeah, man. God's got me. And then finally, he's starting to freaking drown and a a barge comes by and says, man, are you okay? And the guy's like, God's got me, and the guy drowns. Just like seconds later, gets to heaven and says to God, hey, I mean, I thought you're gonna save me. And I said, hey, I sent a kayak and a speedboat in a barge. So you gotta participate in this little project called life or
it ain't gonna happen. That's a classic one for sure. And I agree with that wholeheartedly. Also, I think humans are in future cast mode a lot of the time. What's gonna be the outcome? What's gonna be the outcome? Am I gonna have this happen? Is this gonna happen? And, honestly, it's
such a waste of energy. I think it's good to have an idea of what it feels like, not what it looks like, but what it feels like when you get to the thing you wanna get to, and then work in the now to make that happen. Yeah. I think you're exactly right. I think that's difficult, and I think Jim Carey recently said something to the effect of I wish everybody could make all the money that they want and achieve their wildest dreams so they would see that as not where happiness lies.
But again, on paper, as I used to say years ago, there was a songwriter here when I first came back and had my first number one, and he would say, Tim, never do it for the money. In the meantime, he had 20 something number 1 songs, and he's worth $20,000,000. It's easy for you to say don't do it for the money because you're loaded.
Yeah. Although most of the really rich people I know aren't super happy, and the people that are in some ways just getting by even though it's a stressful life, creatives. You know? It's a stressful life, but, also, I think there is a a beauty in it because you are you are living against that day to day. You you're forced into this the place where you are, and so you see things more clearly. Maybe that's not everyone, but that's certainly how I feel a lot of times. I like
that. Yeah. So tell everybody how they might find you and where they can get the book and and where they can listen to your songs. All all my stuff is on my website, which is the timjames.com. It sounds super cheesy, but they didn't have anything else left. So it's the timjames.com. You can buy the book on Amazon. You can buy it at barnesandnoble.com. It's a good read. I mean, every to be honest with you, most of the people that I know that have read it said I read it in one sitting.
Like, it's something that grabs your attention. I tried I tried to put it in sort of common speak, like, because I don't want to read a book that I every other word, I need a thesaurus. So I wrote it like I speak. So people say and the stories are they're raw, I gotta tell you. I mean, they are very raw where I say, again, I've there's times I thought I could play handball with the curve, where I could've kissed a snake's ass. I mean, that's how low you can get, So I've been there and done that.
How'd you find your way back from your self described madness? Just participating again every day thinking to myself, this moment may not be better, but it may be better this afternoon. And again, I just walked through the muddy water. I did it. I'm also a big fan of exercise. So my sort of, salvation was when most people go to the bar, I go to, the gym, and I'm able to sort of get out my frustrations at the gym and Although you do have good tequila anytime I've been around you. I gotta I
gotta sweat out some tequila from Cabo. Trust me. But, yeah, it's a it's a it's a available Amazon is the easiest way, but my website is the timjames.com. And, yeah, go buy it. I appreciate you having me. Absolutely. And I'll put links on heyhumanpodcast.com as always. And, Tim, I love you. I think you're great. I'm always delighted talking with you. Quite philosophical, observant person, and I think those types of people can be rare, so it's always a pleasure for me. Well, likewise.
I always enjoy talking to you. I find you to be interesting and pretty and all the good things that the world needs. So Shucks. Alright. Thank you. Thanks, Tim, and thanks for listening, everybody. Bye. Great. Review and subscribe to Hey Human Podcast on Itunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks. Bye.