Hey, Humans how's going. Susan Ruth here. Today, I had the opportunity to Skype with Katie, and her story is that she was not born a woman. But she identifies as a woman and is in the process of transitioning. She is transgender. I actually learned in this podcast that transgender is a proper term. I always thought it was transgender with an Ed, but it is not. It's transgender. So I learned a lot of things in this conversation. It's a good 1 hope you enjoy.
And, also, the end of this episode, have some phone numbers, outreach anybody that is looking to talk to somebody or is feeling super down or, you know, all the stuff. I have some phone numbers and and names of organizations that can help. Alright? Alright. Do it. Here we go. Hi, Katie. Welcome to hey, human. Hello. How are you? Doing alright? Good. So people listening might suddenly be shocked because I just said, hi, Katie and your voice is rather low. Yeah. You wanna explain that?
I guess that's the byproduct of a, to was born. I was assigned male at birth. So yeah, my voice I've been on Estrogen for 2 weeks now. And my voice has not dropped. Or has not risen rather, which I guess is to be expected. It will start to do that. It will unnatural start to rise a little bit on my, Adam's apple we're will receive. Yeah. It'll naturally get higher. And So hopefully across my fingers, I won't be like this for the rest of my life, you know? I doubt you will.
You're not done now, so it's not like it. It's good. How say on the estrogen? Tuning the estrogen is it, have you noticed difference yet? In your body? Not yet. I'm still in a the smallest dose, because I need to test how my body reacts to it. Mh. So, it's, like, on a scale, like, 0.1 to 0.4, some sort of unit that I don't understand 0.4 something's. And I'm at 0.1 right now. So, like, 25 percent of what I will be get taking weekly. Oh, okay. So it's relatively small dosage.
Can everybody freak out? But, like, the weird thing is, like, I have, like, the 1 change I have noticed. Is like, my emotional well being is already better than it was. Really? I was in say, a pretty a pretty pre awful place for several weeks before, I, got my first shot at in the in this the last, I 2 weeks since or 2 a week. Since I I feel so much better about what I'm
doing right now, you know. Do you think that's a result of the hormone shot, or do you think that's a result of, you knowing that you're now in process of transitioning? Think it's that. I think it's like a psychological. You know, like jaw didn't, like, increase, like, the endo of my brain or anything like that, But III know that, like, I am finally taking steps, you know? Because I I realized I was trans what what month is it is it July?
It is. Yes. It would be, like, 9 months ago, I think, and basically to sat on that knowledge for 8 of those months. You know, I started coming out people, and taking steps in that sense. But physically, I was making no change in my body and, like, you know, 20 years old starting to, like, notice chest hair coming and stuff like that. And I felt this, like, immense pressure that I needed to start doing something.
So And you know, like, I see, I know some people who are, like, started transitioning when they were, like, 14 and they're now, like, 17, for instance, and they've had 3 years to, like, sort of... As they go through Puberty, they do it, They're doing as a 1. So they look, like so better than I look now. And by the time they get to my age, they'll be, like, inevitably
better than I look right now. So I've have this feeling, like, I'm... I need to start as soon as possible so I can have as much of, like, you know, my life as the human being I wanna be. So it's interesting you said that you realized that you transgender 8 months ago. But now, did you just sort of wake up and go, I think I got put in the wrong body or of dealing with your whole life for, you know, explain that a little bit because I think for people who are
listening, they're going 8 months. You don't... You know, that's not at time. Yeah. Well, the short story that's... The short version is it's been there. All my life, and I just have ignoring the science or just not even noticing them. The longer version is, like, there's a... If we're going backwards in time, 8 months ago, this, like, I was feeling horrible all the time. And I had no idea. I trying out why.
And I finally came to realize, like, oh, this is this is D gloria the feelings is gender d sequoia. I feel not at home in my own body. And know, like, over the summer, last summer, I had I was, like, starting to tell more people that you know, I like to I I like to wear women's clothes. I wish I was a woman.
But I didn't put it together at, like, this awful feelings I was having were because of this, basically, I've been wearing, like, like, women's close privately since, like, third or fourth grade. And in high school, I started, like, going to sleep hoping out wake up female. And you know, if III always, like, have this idea, like, if I were to, like, rub a Genie lab something right and get a Genie, my first wish would be to retain this this brain. I have, but be born into
the body of the woman. Mh. And that didn't include me and I was just like, this is just something I want. So III didn't put it together. That's what being trans is. And then, end of senior year, I just... I keeping a secret for or, like, 8, 9 years or something like that. From your parents and everybody. Everybody. Yeah. Everybody. I never told anybody. So finally, I was, like, and this car I 1 of my best friends of the time.
And I told him, and I explained, like, that I would do this and that I wish I his emails stuff And then I was, like, but please never bring this up to me. Never never mention it again to anybody and don't even say it to me unless I bring it up. And then... Why is that? Because I I was that embarrassed about it, you know, the... Like, I thought, oh, On this boy that, likes to wear women's clothes, and was wishes he was a woman. That's, you know, society would shame me for
that, you know. How did your friend take it? He was really cool about it. He was, like, didn't... Like I was weird or anything like that. Was just like, interesting and, like, he would ask, like, questions and, just wants to know more. And then after that conversation, we never talked about it again, for he didn't talk about it again till for like, a year. I thought he had forgotten about it or something because he that good not talking about it. So I do appreciate him doing that.
Then like, going in... That was nice senior here. So going into freshman year of college. I had this girlfriend who's was gonna go to college, and she and I... Girlfriend or friend girl. Somebody you were dating. Yeah. Okay. Got. U. Yeah. She she and I got really close. And basically, we ended up breaking up in, like, October, and or November. And we like we broke up because he wanted to be friends. We didn't wanna date anymore.
And I explained to her the same thing that I told my other friend, in city here, they still, I I wish I was female. Wanna where women's clothes and stuff like that. And she's told me... Well, you know, you can be female. They... That's a thing you can transition and and start being feeling like, oh, no. That's not that's not what I wanna do. You know, because IIII wanted to be female. I didn't wanna transition because I didn't wanna be a woman who used to be AAA guy. You wanted to be
born a woman? I wanna be born. I I wanna to have been 1 in the whole time. And I just thought... Because that's possible. I'll just live with what I have, and you know, so then half a year goes by. Oh... Well, first thing we did next day was go shopping, and she bought me some clothes,
which is nicer. And hid the home on the bottom of my suitcase, put them in the bottom of my underwear drawer, and you know, felt better, and that was fine for about 6 months until I got back to home for the summer and just... My summer is very long, like, 3 and
to a half months. I was just sitting there and wasn't doing anything, you know, that I wanted to do was working at this pizza place that was awful to work at and just my conditions were perfect for me to start really thinking about how much I hated the body I have and the person who I was, And so eventually, started coming out to a few other friends, not as trans, but it's just someone who wants to be a woman.
And they would would... And I would say, explain, like, I don't think I'm trans because I don't feel like I'm a woman trapped in a man's body. I just desperately wanna be female. I don't... I guess explain that what you mean by that. Well,
and I after having done research. This is something a lot of trans people think it's, like, there's there's this idea that trans people are just, like, that that, like, I, like, you were just, like, new... A woman trapped in a man's body and, like, that's... I guess that's true, but it doesn't like feel that way because I don't know what it's like to feel like a woman or I didn't know what it's like to feel like a woman until I started really exploring that.
But the fact that I was unhappy with my body and then I wished, I was had a female anatomy. That is being... That is being a woman in a man's body, you know, you like, imagine if, like, you for instance, woke up, tomorrow was, like, a penis. You would feel like, where's is my, you know, female nobody body, that's how I felt my entire life, I guess. Yeah. So, basically, like, end of summer, I I had come to realize, like, I wish I was female nothing I can do about it. I'm just
gonna have to live with it. And then so then that's next semester at school. I actually studied abroad. You know, I was surrounded by nothing familiar. So I... Basically, the only thing I had that was familiar was me and because I was in this, like, turmoil I was forced to, like, deal with it. Yeah. I realized, oh, I must be transgender. She discover that traveling abroad. We had to... Do have to at least comment on that pun. When I was abroad. I realized I wanted to be abroad. The, So I I...
You know, I sat down that night, I was just feeling humble and not sure if I could keep you doing this. And I was supposed to like, write this essay for my assignment and said I wrote a different essay about how about, like, my experience going up and all that. And basically, finished it, sent it to, like, a very good friend of mine. Family friend, mentor second father type figure that I've had my life for a while. And and then went to sleep and felt a little better
having, like, realize that. But then I had to, you know, think, oh, I am abroad. I'm dealing with this problem that would be difficult even if I was at home surrounded, but my family love me. I will put this off up worrying about this until I get home, so I can, just enjoy my experience here. Did you just as a woman while you were there in Europe? Sorry. Did you... Did were you out and about Europe as a woman or were you? No. I I came to a few of my friends
there. I still was presenting his mail, but I I did buy some clothes with friend of mine, and then I wore them around these friends a couple times. But I was still very, very ashamed of it, and just so very uncomfortable and worried that, like, I would be called out for being weird or something even though these were very open people. This the environment I'm in school is very, very clear friendly, and it's awesome.
So, yeah, I didn't, like, really start digging in until when to break, redoing research figuring out what exactly Am, you know, I thought maybe I was gender fluid, but I came to realize. I'm just trans. What is Gender fluid? Gender fluid, it's when you sometimes you'll wake up, and you'll be like, I feel male today. Sometimes you wake up
feel female. Use you're it's not just a spectrum, it was described in this, vice like this professor, as, like, if you were to, like, take, like, all the colors of the rainbow and then, like, turn them into a of my cats here. Hello, Kat. Take, like, it's, like, it's so... It's like so multi dimensional. The spectrum is not like a a lying and you're somewhere on the line. It's not a plane and you're somewhere on the plane. It's not like a a spear and you're somewhere on the spear. It's like,
this... It's so diverse. So, basically, Generally fluid would, like, people identify, like, male 1 day and female the next day. But you're constantly identifying as a female. Yeah. I haven't... I the reason I thought I could I might be generous to it is, like, when things are going well for me when I'm presenting his mail. Sometimes I can fool myself or just thinking I can live like this forever, but I have to be things that to be, like, perfect for me to not feel sad.
Like, and the way I sort describe that is, like, you know, if you imagine, like, everyone's happiness is on a scale of, like, negative a hundred to a hundred right, hundreds best negatives hundreds is the worst. And most people they're they're like, you know, you get a promotion at work. It's, like, plus 25 or, you know, your cat runs away minus 15 or something like that. You. Most people are out of 0 naturally, but, like, I'm naturally, like, a negative
50 negative 60 type thing. So I have to be you know, where a normal person would be, like, an 80 or 90 on that scale, I am a 40 or 50. At the best. That's the best I can get. Would you say that's the reason why a lot of trans folks turned to drugs and alcohol as a means of elevating their moods I... I mean, I imagine the suicide rates
gotta be off this charts. Yeah. It's definitely Trans teens have the highest rate of suicide, and just trans... Trans women in general have the highest mortality rates, whether it's homicide or suicide, Much side I imagine it's a big 1 too. Yeah. Absolutely. A lot of people fine. Yes. And I'll talk about that in a little bit. Do have a lot say about that. I hesitate to there Speak for a train... All trans people, but, I would I would
not be surprised if that was way. A lot of them turned drugs in our alcohol. So, yeah, I basically just realized That I was trans, and then I said... Oh, I'll worry about this in the summer, and then the next 4 months were absolute help because, you know, going to school, presenting his male when I knew that was a lie. To college? Yeah. To college, presenting his mail. It's it's not easy. There are a lot of dark kinds. Not that Just... Well, you know,
Batman man might be transgender. Who knows? We don't know... Yeah. I did read an article about why we don't know the real population of transgender Americans because so many people... Because we have this idea the gender is a binary, if we were to simplify the gender to, like, this a scale from 1 to 10:10
female weren't being male. Yeah. You probably actually to, like a 7 or an 8 to really feel dis work enough to to want to transition, and also a lot of people are do identify entirely as female privately but they don't. Like, they mentioned this 1 guy who is, like, this successful lawyer, Chicago, who wrote in anonymously or something was saying, like, when I take surveys online, for instance, I checked the box female. It's an anonymous survey without even thinking.
But I would never... And III have always wanted to be female but always like, admired like, the feminine form whatever and want that for myself, but I would never ever transition because my life right now is is good, and I don't know when my life would hold if I transitioned. Scott said just scary, no man's land. No again, part in the pun, but, to not really... I mean, I believe that most of us spend our entire lives wearing masks
for sure. Yeah. And many of us are quite miserable in the process of trying to be something we're not which is why I always find it interesting. There's so much hate against trans people because I find it... It shows a grand lack of empathy for one's own struggle. I mean, Yeah. We're constantly pretending to be something We're not when we got into the world. How is that different? You know? I mean,
As far, you know, rudimentary speaking. So you're in third grade and you're thinking to yourself something is not right here, and you go in and you steal your mom's clothing and suddenly you're, like, How do... So I know that that there is a great percent. Not a great percentage As a percentage of men who dress as female. Who are trans night who live their lives as males, but they also live their lives as females. That's different. Yeah. Right. To speak to that a little bit. Can?
It's it's different in that, like, But I notice what left. You know, a trans site. Of course. My understanding is it's a difference between like. They you know, dressing and drag, and it's fun, and they enjoy it. But and maybe they even prefer it. But when they take it off and they go back into the real world, they're fine. Know, if they're not. Right for you. It's to. You're trying to. They we'll dress in women's clothes, you and or Back then, especially, I dressing women's clothes.
And it felt better, but it still it good. Because... Because you're during in your body, you're still in the body that... Yeah. It I was I was like, you know, I I would like, look in the mirror and see this... I'm, like, so close to what I would wanna be, but I wouldn't be there And I I it was like, I sort of describe it as, like, a, you you can't look away from this... Crude parody. I see in the mirror, but I hate it. I can't... I hate it, but I can't look away. Yeah.
So, yeah, I think it's interesting this idea that everyone has masks, you know, and we sort of deem that people who are trying to remove their masks, you know, sure. And I had a neuroscience professor last semester who... She was she's a Lesbian, and, I was having meeting with her where we were talking about this, you know. And she was saying you should... I hope 1 day you feel lucky because so many sis straight people.
Don't get the opportunity to really discover who they are because they're they have, like, it's in some senses of a benefit and the fact that they don't... They're never challenged for their identity. Mh. They're never, forced to really examine themselves because they are the norm. They're, you know, they're natural. You know, they they they can live their entire lives and everyone's question why they are, who they are.
Yeah. But see. I had to do... I have to disagree with that because I think as a heterosexual female, for example, a white 1 as well. I mean, I'm constantly questioning my place in the world, who I am, what I am. You know, all that kind of stuff. So I I do... I mean, I understand what she's trying to say. But You... But, like, many, many heterosexual sis people. Sis. 2. Sis means cis gender helped you born the the sex years kind of birth matches
your identity. Thank you. Got. Yeah. Assist straight people could go their entire lives and never once actually have to examine the themselves. You have and that you're better for it and, you know... Oh, I think a lot of people don't. I see what you're saying. A lot of people don't because they're not forced. When your L lgbt, you don't have a choice. Right. Right. You you have to go through that sort of gauntlet of who
am Why am I? Well, yeah. Because you spend your whole life of people pointing at you going, you're different. You're different. And more time you're... Yeah. And verifying it. Like, are you sure and that... That's a question that I've gotten several times. Sure. So, yeah, it's, like... So she said, at the end of the day, I hope you feel lucky that you we're forced to do something that you might not have done otherwise. Mh. Not you're forced to really discover who you are.
And so while, So I'm sort of in the process of removing my mask, and I think... Hopefully, 1 day, I feel lucky for that. I don't at the moment. But... I can't imagine since you're at the beginning of this journey, and, we had discussed off off air that that you'd like to come back again and and talk about it once you're You're not out yet. No. I'm out to probably 90 to 95 percent of my friends. Yeah. It's probably a few hundred people that know now.
But I'm not officially out. You know, I at work I to present his male. Then in my community back home, I know when well a lot of people don't know. Your hometown. You mean... My hometown. Yeah. Mh. That's gonna be really interesting too because here you are, your mind knows where you're heading.
You begun steps to get there. And yet, you have to you know, it's sort of a Ci d thing, you know, you're you're you're in the crowd, and I imagine and you're sort of speaking to this thing of that you're you're going to be and you are and yet around you, god only knows. I mean, I'm sure you're face with people that are rather bigoted in that regard and and you hear that. So how how that must feel? Yeah. At work, especially. I've heard trans comments.
I've been at work at this job since they I got back home for 4 weeks, and I've already had 3 instances of just casual trans sylvia. His first was someone was telling me that he didn't like the idea of, you know, trans women in the bathroom with his daughter. His hypothetical future daughter. And I had to have that conversation with him saying, like, you you're gonna have to get over a sort of thing and basically him to the end of that conversation. I think he understood a little bit better.
And he was a little... He was, like, yeah. I've just uncomfortable with it, but I guess, I guess that's just the way the world works. Do you think that's all learned ignorance his fear is a learned fear. I think about when noble bathroom thing came up and where, you know, you can only use the bathroom if the gender you were born as is the... You know, whatever. The that That gender is the 1 bathroom you have to use. That if you have transition and let's say, I'm now a man.
I still have to use the female bathroom just... Or, do you know, it's very confusing, which I find that insane on so many levels first of all, but mostly, I think about I was in college, first of all, the female line bathroom was way too long. I went in the man's bathroom all the time. Nobody taught me. Nobody worried I was gonna mole molested anyone. Nobody... I mean, what, fear is such a ridiculous Yeah. Emotion. Trans people have been using the bathroom of their gender identity. Forever.
Which is forever. I was recently reading about the and but the end of that point, I... You know, They've been using the bathroom they want to for for forever. And there's never once been a case of a trans woman mole lust anyone in a ridiculous? Have been plenty of cases of trans women being attacked in the bathroom of the of the sex they were gonna assigned at birth because they were forced to use that bathroom where they were too afraid to not use that bathroom
someone... You know, Oh, you wanna be a woman will let me, you know, do this to you because that's what you get. So it's for oh it's for our own safety that we use the bathroom the of our generate Identity. Yeah. So I was reading the... To speak to the whole trans a little bit your forever. I was reading thing about you know, in the Native American culture, people who are transgender are
revered. They're they're called 2 spirits because they're believed to be in touch with both the male and the female mind, and so they... And that's like a real thing that that, since, like, like, native Americans cut off from, you know, like, European world had trans people. And they instead of demon digitizing them. They revere them, they worship them. Oh, many of the gods in methodologies are of full sexes. Yeah. So, like, intersex, transgender, all these things.
They're real things. They're not just something that, you know, tumblr users on 20 16 have decided to start doing. This is something that have happened since like, there haven't humans. And it's a biological. It's a neurological thing. You know, like trans, women, for instance, their brains are structured more similar to, a female brain than a male brain and that's even before hormones, they've been studies that have shown this, you know, it's not just someone
wanting to wear room close. And that's the key understanding that I think a lot of people want to come to for them to fully accept trans people's. Ask who they are. Yeah. Well, I think people ignorance it's too, they'll not automatically assume oh, that person must have been molested as a child or that person didn't have a particular parent that should love or maybe another for, you know, for those a million reasons that people that don't know better are gonna come up with why.
Right? I mean, some of them might not even get that far. They might just say, oh, they're just gay. Right. Which is not... I'm just because you're transgender doesn't mean you wanna have sex with the whatever gender you become, Mean, or not become. I explain that because I'm gonna trip over my tongue. Yeah. Gender is fluid. Just a sexuality of fluid. Is what I tried to. Yeah. And and they're separately fluid. They don't have Absolutely.
You know, I a trans male friend means that he was born female and has transitioned to be on the boy he is today. And he was you know, he was talking about on Twitter like, oh, this... He said, he was quoting court he gets which is, Oh, you you, like, boys well why didn't you stay a girl then? And which is strong in so many levels a, He doesn't wanna be with men as a woman, he wants to be with men as a man.
And b, he, the fact, like, to not to say that that just ignores the fact that gender and sex or sexuality are entirely separate things, and 1 does not influence the other at all. You know, So that's a common misconception. Yeah. I would imagine it would be. I know trans women who like, women, I know trans women who, like men. I know and same thing trans boys who, like, other men and transmit who, like, when. So, you know, It's all it's all different. Yeah. Absolutely.
And then there's, like pan by all those people. Every every type of this person there is... There's a type of for that. And what between pan and bisexual? Bisexual, my understanding, and I'm not and expert on this enough to really speak to it, but my understanding is you're bisexual, you like men and women. But you like men because of this men... Masculine things about them. Be like, learning because of their feminine qualities are the the... Who they are as alone.
Pan, you like someone because... You will like anybody because but it's because of the person they aren't. Like, they're full or something. That's so. Yeah. And you would connect their soul and, you know? So you don't care what their gender is. What their gender has no influence on how you feel about this. That's. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. That's how I thought it was too. Okay. So at what point you saw you you had come out to
your friends. At what point did you you come out to your parents and explain how that went. I came out to my parents over that way break between my time in Europe and the time back in school. So you wrote the essay sa. Yeah. I wrote the essay and III left Essay on the... The answer that had written back in September. I love that on, the like, kitchen table or something. It told my dad had something that I wanted to read. And then I what to taco bell and waited until I got a text message.
And, you know, they were supportive, And I knew they would be supportive. I think my dad took some time for him to really come in terms of it. And, you know, I had a conversation with him that I don't wanna go into too much detail, but wanna go back ever Had of conversation with him about the whole situation and you know, At this point now, like, 6 months after that initial coming out. They are, like, as supportive, like, can possibly
help. So... That's great. So, yeah, I feel very lucky that a lot of trans people will have a way worse than do. Well, I that's why there's so many trans homeless and gay and that's being homeless. It almost... It seems... It's it's funny because, you know, I know when you when you talk about this sort of thing, everything gets lumped together, which is why I think it confuses people the think that trans sec... Trans sexual has something to do with sexuality.
Because every everything gets lumped together which, in a way, almost I think is a disservice to each individual person. Yeah. And I think in a way, it's... And I'm not actually placing blame here. But, in a way, I think it might be the Lt can we useful vault because, you know, we call ourselves the Lgbt will not L lgbtq, a club there's a lot of their
colors now. But but a lot of times we still say just that be, which to me, I think is silly because we have 3 different words for for sexually queer, you know, Lesbian bisexual gay And then we have 1 word transgender that just encompasses all the gender clear people and we and that we those those 4... Or those... This group is combined together as 1 sort of movement because we're so marginalized. Though, sure. And that makes sense. Works well we have to form this coalition to actually
make any progress. Sure. But now that you know, being gay, I'm not gonna say, especially like in the wake of the orlando shooting I think like that, but it's, like, normal and okay to a lot of, like, in the world
now. Like, if they're device is not over, but the sexually clear movement is so much farther along than the gender crew, you know, people who are gender clear are just now getting visibility, and I... I was just reading an article saying, basically, the trans movement is at where the, like, the gay and lesbian movement... Like the like, sexual queer movement was in, like, 2003. So we're, like, 15 years behind. Now I think the the rate of acceptance will grow
faster if that makes sense. I, like, I I think we are progressing as a as a country as a society as a world faster than we were back then because I... But it's still true that we are much farther behind. And so in a way, the t may be benefited if from having its own group because the 2 things aren't the same and because they've been associated together so long
people assumed they're the same. Sure. And it's totally understandable that that you would all come together as 1 collision just because it's a more powerful force to be reckon with for sure, but I do think it's probably confused people. But, you know, that's what education is about to not be afraid to learn something about your fellow human being. This... It's a novel. Like it's not idea. I know. But For sure. What... So
I'm trying to remember. Now I I can't have a conversation with someone who's transgender without bringing up the there there have been transgender people forever, and I find it really fascinating that and famous. By the way, but Caitlyn Jenner, of course, got all the limelight because, you know, they had that Tv show and all that. But long before, Caitlyn Jenner, There were others? Yeah. You know, visible others. Do... I'd like to speak to that a little
bit. Do you do you think that Caitlyn jenner transition helped the cause of of having our acceptance or hindered it because of who she was before. I was actually I was watching a had talk sort of about sort of about this. Or at least it started being the about this and it sort of evolved. But, the, I think it definitely helped.
You know, someone who was an American hero be coming out as trans. Basically, like I think fast forwarded where we were at as a movement, you know, significantly because all of a sudden, everyone had talking about it. Yeah. And once people are talking about it, that's when change happens. You know, I personally know people who... Their first reaction when Caitlyn Jenner came out as trans what's to say sorry? I'm still gonna call you, Bruce or things like that.
That was, like, like, Just over a year ago, I have, like, friends who said that. And now a year later, those same friends I've told that I'm trans and they've nothing but supportive. And, you know, calling me by Katie instead of my birth name, and did I think while I don't like Caitlyn Jenner for the person she is, you know, she was Shaw advocate. She killed somebody and we haven't talked about that for a while, Be like, but and, you know, doesn't support Lgbt rights, she doesn't...
Steve was on Ellen once saying that she didn't support gay marriage, even though she was trans herself. You know, I don't like her the person, but I do respect what she did. I don't think she should've have won woman of the year. I think there's so a better trans woman who could been woman of the year, but on the other hand, if even 1 trans person saw Caitlyn jenner coming out and winning a woman of the year and thought, oh, you know, if there is hope for the
future. Right. I'm not having gonna put down this razor or whatever, then, you know, so soviet. Like, woman of the year, I don't... I couldn't tell you who anyone else who's 1 1 of the year. And so it's not that I'm not actually upset that she won, that that award, to be honest, I just think in general, she's been forced for good. Well, wouldn't be wonderful if 1 day, we just got to person of the ear. Yeah. Instead of black white, green red, orange, gay, straight, wow, you know. Just person.
I was having conversation with someone about, like, the Oscar nominations. You know that we have best male actor, best female actor. And somewhat like, it it was a group of us. And 1 person was like, well, I don't know why we gender that. We shouldn't gender our awards. But then, someone said, well do you think if it was just best actor, a woman would ever have won it, you know, because we're still so sexist as this hoodie that I think... Oh, I do Sw. Yeah. Yeah. Stupid bro. Yeah. But
told them not to let. Veterans of probably, like decades where male after male actor winning every time. And, you know, So I think in that sense, we gender it for before, you know, the the marginalized groups sake. So I... We person the year when we awarded die... To own diapers. Sure. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. It's all. I mean, it's also fascinating. Just the way humans try so hard to put people into groups. Yep. To make themselves feel superior or more comfortable.
Sometimes just not even about superiority. I think it's definitely about comfort levels and But I think we are moving towards generations, the the people being born now, for example, it probably won't this won't even be an issue. They won't even... They won't think there'll be something else to hate. Something Aliens, but then we'll have landed. They're like, god, hate those aliens. L. For the aliens. Wow. So... Okay. So you've come out to your parents and you you're down to go
more difficult than your... Why do you think that is? Just the whole father son thing to That bothers son relationship can you speak up a little? Sorry. Yeah. Sorry. What? Oh, Yeah yeah. I think it is that bothers son relationship and you. He has friends who are trans, So it's not like he doesn't think being trans. Okay. I think it took a while for to accept that his own child was trans. Sure. Because he didn't want that for me for my own sake, you know, and but I don't even want it for me at
this point in time. They I'm hoping at some point and I feel like proud. Happy for who I am, but at this point in time, I I would still... If you could make me sis with a press of button. I would do it hands now. Meaning born born that way? Yeah. Yeah. Well, born... Born in the gender you identify as. I want. But so he he was, like, imagining how hard my life was going to be, and, you know, and he saw his own relationship with me changed, which... So was just a few roadblocks for him, but
Nothing nothing he couldn't handle him. Do you see your relationship with him has changed? No. I mean, I always really focused this way, but I have just necessary to define it, but, I've always felt this way, and I... Now that he knows it doesn't change the fact that I
new. And I still view him the same, and you know, there's, like, little changes, you know, don't wanna I wanted him to call and Katie, but I still want to be, you know, I don't I don't feel any different about the way our relationship is And so once he sort of cameo terms who I really am. I think now he's, you know, not he doesn't didn't have that issue anymore. So you will identify it as his daughter, not his son anymore. Correct?
I had this conversation the other day with somebody and in, you know, anticipation of this conversation with you, Katie, and I spoke about the relation between you and your father, and I said, dino know, it's interesting because... And you and your grandfather, you know, 2 males in your family, and how they... And again, this is this is me just sort of assuming how I must feel because I don't know I'm not dumb. But the idea of, like, they're looking at you, you're saying, hey,
I was actually... I'm... I'm the same person. Because you are. You're the exact same person, but you're just... Your... The meat stick you're in is gonna change a into a different meat stick. Right? And but in general, your soul is the same. Your mind's the same. Everything that makes you you. Everything that you're... And again, anyway, I think about... I'm gonna segue away a little bit. But either I think about, like, the religious, the hyper religious who are very much against trans.
Yeah speaking for that particular. I don't think all religious people are like that, but I'm speaking to the people who are. That they're like, oh, well, That's an abomination. Ended it up. But if you believe in a soul, you're the same soul. You're just in a different gooey stick, you know, blood and corpus or whatever. So, like, you and I are talking, and I'm thinking, Katie or the name you were born with, you know, you're the exact same person as far as your heart and your mind and your soul.
Why do you think it is that people wanna all of a sudden be like, oh, what's your You're you're not because you're gonna become this other, but you're not really becoming this other person You always have been that person. You were just stuck in the wrong meat stick. I keep using needs stick because it seems like the funny a funny way to put it but that's all it is. Right? Did that make any sense? I don't even know if there was a question in there. I was more like a ramble, but...
Let's seems like you're asking, like, why are people why are people? So find it's so hard to accept trans as trans people. I think it's a lot of things. 1 thing probably is a lack of empathy, you know, or they imagine they are since so they can't they just can't imagine what it would be like to, you know, feel anything, but the way they feel. And so when they see someone who looks like them acting in a way that they don't act. They think like, that's not normal. I, I can't... I
can't imagine myself doing that. So why do you do that? That's weird are you're strange. And what they should think is if they... They're projecting, you know, their own their own gender identity onto the gender identity needed the person who's doing that. If they were to really think about it it, and still project that identity on them and think, oh, if this person has the same identity I do, and I would never do that.
Then they they shouldn't do that instead of doing that, they should say, oh, they must have a different identity because If I wouldn't do that, the they and the fact that they are doing that is a is a given, and there's no way they feel the same way I feel. I should, you know, come to realize that they must have looked at this differently than I do...
And so that's like, you know, I think something that people should try to realize if they're gonna project they should just go a step further and realize why projecting isn't correct. Well, we can all... None of us can can see anything except through our own paradigm. And then in our own experience and our own sense itself. And that goes without saying that's just part of being a human being. But I think more what I was speaking to is you... At least is how I see it.
And maybe that's the wrong way to see it. I don't know is that who you were born who you were born as this is the exact same person that's who you are now. The only difference is it's if as if you unzip this suit and he went put on a different suit. Does that... If you were born without skin, Right? That being is the exact same being. You're just gonna put on a different skin suit, and now you're gonna... Because you've always been that person you've been hiding and pretending
I don't know. Maybe I'm confusing myself, but it makes sense in my very bizarre brain. I don't I think in time come that to think the way. Think in time people will come to realize that and think of it that way, but yeah. Yeah. Once sort of goes through it differently. How long does it take to transition? All my life? I, you know, I... Right now, I, you know, I take a pill every day. To stop the on of testosterone, and then I take... Have a shot every week to add esp to my bloodstream.
And I'll be doing that for the rest of my life. Oh, it's... Okay. It's all your life. You have to... Okay. The if I decide to get 6 reassign surgery then at that point, I can do that. I I... The soon deal able to do that is a year from now or depending on the weight list it could be 2 years. Why is it so long? Well, you gotta go, the doctor who's good at it. Which they're very good, and there's the high demand. Really? Yeah. So the wait list...
If I were to sign up today for it, I would probably not get in for a year or 2. But also, you know, my insurance does cover. That's amazing. Yeah. That's something that a lot of trans people don't have. So III acknowledge that, and I I am appreciative over that. How is it that that there's just... That is that in every policy or just some? Or because you live in a really progressive state. Yeah. I think yeah the company that my dad has or whatever. Don't know. I'm not exactly sure why it
is, but it is what it is. Awesome. So... But their stipulation are. I need I need a letter from a gender psychologist or psychiatrist rather. I need a, to live full time as a woman for a year. And after Goes to... The 2 stipulation, I have to have a letter tell him saying that this is what I need, and I have to had experience being woman for a full year. Have you started therapy for that? Yeah. I start. That was the first thing I did when I got by comfort for sorry. How's that going?
Fine. I don't know. I'm a big believer in therapy. I love some therapy. I haven't felt like, any a huge breakthroughs yet. I'm not really sure. But I also... I don't really know when to compare it to. So... What are they looking for just to have you not say, maybe I wanna stay a boy. They want make sure that you know exactly what it is you want. I suppose... Yeah. I... Yeah. I guess... Yeah. They're just... You know, they want an expert in the field to be like, yeah, That's the best call.
But... Man and they they I think at the end end of the day, they just care about the liability. They don't wanna be sued. If I were to down the line and be like, oh, why did I do this? Why'd you let me do this? I'm gonna sue you? They want to be able sure this what you want. Yeah. America's very lit. That makes sense. Do you know yet what you want? And that's a very personal question. You don't have to answer. But just do you in your own Do you know in your mind what you want right now? It
may change. I don't know. I have an idea, but I can't really you know, so far away. Yeah. Right. So can you get on the winning list before you you go and live life as a woman and and do that? Or do you that you do have to actually lived the life with the letter and all that stuff and then get on the list, Or do you know? I don't know at what point in the process I do the whole payment thing. So basically, a year before I pay, I will need to have lived as a woman Oh,
is it an expensive surgery? I imagine it must be? It's like 26000 dollars for autumn century. For a female. Does it? How you Is it in America? Or is it often Sweden or something? Norway america? I can get it. You can go to, like, Thailand get it for 5000 dollars. And some people do that. I would ever do that. That's seems risky to me. But, yeah, it is in America. There's a the office that I would go to if I decide to do it is in Los Angeles for this lake wanted in, I think Philadelphia,
maybe it's concerned. Somewhere in Pennsylvania. And then, you know, there's a there's a few scattered around. Johns Hopkins used to have back in the seventies, they used to have a gender or sex or assignment, surgery clinic, they that they would provide for trans people but the that they came under attack in the seventies for providing this and they shut it down. So that's sort of a kinda heartbreaking breaking thing that happened, you know, a a while ago, but Are you scared about all this?
Like, about transitioning. Mh. Yeah. I mean, I go back and forth. Some days, I'm like, yeah. Let's do this, you know, other days I'm, like, I'm not sure if this is if I'm going to... The the option... I never have the option that I'm they go back to what I was, that's not an option. So some days, I'm, like, yeah. I'm excited. Sometimes days I'm like, boom, I'm less excited, but this is what I have to do. And other days, I'm like, I don't wanna do anything at all. I just want T be done.
But recently, the last week or so, it's been all positivity, and I attribute you back to the fact that I'm actually making progress. Getting the shots and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And I went to the pride parade on a last weekend yes part an empowering. Type thing. Yeah. Yeah. So when you were struggling with trying to figure out your identity when as you were growing up, and we talked that you had some real dark times. And again, transgender suicide rates are through the roof.
Yeah. It's hard enough to be a human being on this planet, but then you there are some interesting things on the mix and Yikes. So would do you mind speaking to some of that just for anyone who might be out listening to... Yeah. I had a lot of days when at nights when I. Wasn't really sure if I wanted to
be alive the next day. You know, this idea that even when I finish transitioning, I'll still not be the perfect person that I wanna be, because I will have, you know, I never wanted to be trans. And I still don't really want to be trans. I just... Want I want to have been female from the start. And so I'm I've always been worried that, like, it's... I've always scared of this idea that it won't be enough once say transition.
But... And I've also said still in the middle of the process, you know, I... It's not... I haven't been through it. You know, I... Haven't, like, I'm not looking back on it. Right now. I'm in. I'm looking around at it. So I would just tell anyone who also has... Who's also struggling with this who also doesn't know if tomorrow was gonna be either last day on earth or anything like that. To... I would tell them tomorrow won't be my last day on there.
I am going to fight through this, and I really hope that you will do so as well. Not just for your sake, but for all our sakes. And I've been told to get better. So let's figure let's find that out together. So... Yeah. And even if you don't see it, you know, you are a beautiful person, just the fact that you exist and Pay amen to that. Yeah. So it's worth it. It'll be worth it. I hope you believe that too. It helps to say, Yeah. Yeah. Imagine. Is there anything else you'd like to talk about?
I mean I could talk on hours, but We can. Is there anything that we didn't cover that... I mean, I know we're gonna talk again and that'll be great when, you know, further down the line as you get further through your treatments and things. But I I mean, it's anything that you wanna to pinpoint or discuss that we haven't covered. I think, I would like to speak really quickly to the a week ago at the San francisco pride parade, I think of trans, Americans burn the American flag.
It's like a protest. Yeah. And it's all all over facebook right now. A lot of people are, like, how are you're expecting, you know, trans people to, or or how are you're expecting people care about your issues if you're gonna disrespect to flag like that. Alright. You can't give you to listen when you act like this.
And I just wanna quickly say, like, it's not, like, and a a lot of people are, like, expecting trans people to have, like, an opinion about this or they're like, how do you feel about this or you're gonna say something about this, is not... And I just wanna say is it's that you're not trans people's responsibility to denounce other trans people's actions, you know, we are not a c cohesive suit group and what 1 person does does not
is no reflection on whatever Else does. However, if you are someone who has not spoken about the fact that, you know, 20 16 is the most dangerous year to be trans ever, or the fact that you've you've never once made a Facebook post about you know, how trans teams are have the highest that rates to the fact that or you never called out these atrocious bathroom laws, and now you're sharing a thing about trans people burning a flag and you say, how are you expecting people to listen to you when
you do something like this, you weren't listening anyway. You know, the... And at least now you're talking about it. And it's very sad to me that you only that you care now that there's a flag being burned, but you didn't care when their human lives being lost. Sure. So... Yeah. I just want you to, like, take a look in the mirror and say, Yeah. I do I only care now, and maybe I can start carrying the future. So that's just. It is interesting how people wanna
love for terrorism is a great example. You know, I have many deer muslim some friends who have never killed anyone and don't intend to. And yet, somehow, for some reason because there's a chunk of really horrible acting humans speaking in the name of a an entire religion, and my friends feel threatened. You know, and feel unsafe. You know, and people I very much love and admire and respect, be they gay or straight or, you know, whatever, anytime anyone lumps. Everyone together
like that, it it makes me crazy. And if no 1 ever holds straight white, this man accountable where for their action. That was counting for specific straight white men actions. Like, no. The whole straight Cis white community is not at fault for the actions of 1 person ever. The 1 ever says that. So why do people do that for Minorities minority here. Yeah. It's it's so easy to point fingers at other people. I mean,
it just didn't make... Unfortunately, it's it makes the ego feel much better about themselves and they can direct attention at something else as being wrong. Yeah. You know? I didn't even hear about that flag thing. Yeah. I... I tried not to go online too much ironically because you know, podcast podcasts or online, but it just... It makes me create... The news makes me so crazy. Yeah. I really appreciate you talking to me Katie. Yeah. Thank you for having me on. Yeah.
Or being back on in the future. Yeah. And good luck with everything. Thanks. Yeah. Alright. Have a great day. Thanks everybody for listening. I just wanna say that any of you are trying to figure some stuff out. Transgender, by Lesbian straight, whoever, all of you, everyone. All people. There are some great resources. There's a Trevor project. Their lifeline is 8664 you Trevor, which is 8664887386. There's the national suicide prevention lifeline at 1 800 273 talk.
There's a trans lifeline at 8775658860. And there's also advocacy groups out there. The national center for transgender equality, gender proud advocates glad dot org, which is GLAAD dot 0RG. There's black trans advocacy, trans coalition. There's lots of stuff out there. Please. I know just life can be hard. And I can only imagine what life is like when you're trying to be, who you really are in a world of people thinking you should be exactly like everybody else. So that being said,
stay strong. You are loved. And as Katie eloquently put it, you are beautiful, and we need you, the world needs you, don't give up. Alright? Bye bye.