Hey, humans. How's it going? Susan Ruth here. Thanks for listening to another episode of Hey, Human podcast. This is episode 462, and my guest is Jordan Okell. Born deaf, Jordan was raised in the oralist tradition without sign language, which he'll explain more about in this episode. Jordan and I met in Waco at the film festival there, where the film he wrote and directed Healing Hands won best student short film and best family short.
The film is based on his experiences as a deaf child, including a night when he was taken as a child to a Benny Hinn miracle crusade to be healed from his deafness. I met him at the award show of the film festival, and I just loved his vibe. And we started chatting, and he was very gracious to to come on the show. I need to say my vocal cord is healing. I'm sound very scratchy. It's a process. I for those who don't know, I was born with a paralyzed, striped vocal cord.
And doctor Johns here at Keck Medical Center in Los Angeles is fantastic, and he is working to help make the left one not have to work so hard by doing stuff to the right one to fatten it up. It will never move, but maybe we make the left one not have to work so hard. Anyway, that's why I'm scratchy voiced and will be for quite a while. So bear with me on the healing journey. General stuff, check out Hey Human podcast for links and to learn more about my guests in the show.
Check out susanruth.com to learn more about me and my other artistic endeavors. Follow susan ruthism on social media, and find my music on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, wherever you get your music. Rate, review, and subscribe to Hey Human podcast anywhere you get your podcasts. And actually wanted to say, guess what? Blurby, podcasts made Hey Human its podcast of the month. So thank you to y'all for that. And, yeah, be well, take care, be kind, and here we go.
Jordan Okel, welcome to Hey Human. Thank you so much, Susan. Good to see you again. It's so good to see you. We met at Waco at the Independent Film Festival, and I was so delighted to be sitting next to you because you kept winning awards, and it was so exciting. Oh, thank you so much. Yeah. It was certainly humbling, surprising. I was just touched by it. So I was honored to have you sit next to me. It couldn't have happened to a nicer person, so I was Thank you. Thrilled for
you. Let's a little bit dig into you before we get into what you do now, who you are, where were you raised up, what was your family life like, how did that shape you? I am a native Texan. I was born in, the Austin area, grew up there. I had a cup like, two and a half years as a child where I lived in Illinois. So I've experienced the the winters of the North, but my family moved back down when I was five or six. You know, I've I've been living here most of my life.
My my wife is from Waco, so I've, she and I have lived here for the last, I don't know, twelve, fifteen years, something like that. I can't count anymore. So I've called Waco home since then. As far as family life, I've had a very loving family. My family my parents live here in town, and my wife's parents live here in town, which is really helpful raising our daughter. You know? It's good to have that extra help. Do you have siblings? I have one brother. I I love him
to death. He's a year and a half younger. He and his family live in Europe right now. They they've been living in Switzerland, but they're moving right now to Germany. So excited for them. They're they're having a great time. Were you born with hearing difficulty? Were you a hearing child that then developed some how did that work out? Yeah. So I was born deaf. My parents didn't know it. And that's deaf with a lowercase d. I was raised in the what's called the sort of, like, the oralist
tradition. It's not really a tradition, but the oralist way of kind of living with deafness, which is that you are taught to speak and listen with hearing aids, with hearing devices as opposed to being taught sign language. And that's really common for better or worse, in my opinion. I think all deaf and hard of hearing children should be given the opportunity to learn both because ASL is American Sign Language is made for people like us, and and there's a whole culture and community
of capital t deaf people. You know, they their primary language is ASL. So I wasn't blessed with that opportunity. But, yeah, my my parents didn't know that I was deaf for the first year and a half of life. They just thought I was struggling to speak or understand what was
being said. It wasn't until my dad walked in after I was, napping in my crib and I was facing the wall away from the door and he said my name and I didn't turn around and he stepped closer and said it again in about four or five different times until he was right next to my ear, and that's when I noticed him. They took me to be seen by an audiologist, was fitted with hearing aids, and they were told, you know, that it was dangerous for me to hit my head because I could lose my hearing more.
They were told that, you know, it's better to raise me to learn how to speak English as opposed to ASL. And because of all this, there was a real stigma around it, a real sense of fear in my parents. And, you know, they they wanted nothing more but the best for to have give me the best life possible. So that led to my dad who was told by a friend, about a famous televangelist named Benny Hinn, goes around and has a big healing faith healing,
we'll call it a show. They took me to that, and I was selected as as one of the quote unquote, healing participants, to come up on stage at age five. And there were, over 10,000 people wanting me to be healed, and so I lied and said that I was healed because I didn't know what else to do. And then the lie was up later that night. And so that's what that's what inspired my film that was at Waco Indy this
year. It wasn't until I started making that film that I really felt the healing power of community, people coming together to help me tell this story, and it no longer feels like my story. It feels like the character's story, and it's just it's just amazing what art can do. As a kid, did you feel broken? Especially since everyone's trying to say, no. No. You have to talk or you
have to pretend. Yeah. I definitely you know, as a kid, I wouldn't have known to verbalize it as feeling broken, but I definitely did feel that way. Even today, I I don't feel broken anymore, I don't feel broken anymore, but even today, there's a a stigma because my my parents, my in laws, they they've hesitated and and resisted getting hearing aids when they really needed it. There's still a sense of stigma in our culture about hearing loss in their case, deafness in other cases, when
there really shouldn't be any shame. There's there's no difference between hearing aids and and glasses for most people. So it's just something that aids in one of your five senses. So I see that with my own parents and even friends, and they there's this idea that somehow again, I use the word broken, but such a good analogy is if you can't see well, you get glasses.
Yeah. I think what being deaf or hard of hearing, in my opinion, living this life has taught me is that there's there's more than one way to live a perfectly normal, beautiful, healthy life, you know? And it might not look like the quote unquote average person, but that doesn't mean I'm not living the life I was meant to live or living a life that I can enjoy living. In fact, there are many benefits, in my opinion, to the way that that I live life. I go to sleep and take my
hearing aids out. I don't I don't hear anything. You know, I it no sound. It's it's wonderful. I don't know how people go to sleep hearing all the noises that they hear. I couldn't do it. So there are benefits to it as well. Yeah. I can understand that desire to shut out the world. Yeah. Especially in the world today, it can be helpful. Do you speak sign language now? I don't. I've attempted to learn more recently, and then we we had a we had a child and life kind of got away
from from us. And I have something I've it's been on my bucket list to to learn it more fluently. I would love to learn from someone who is is deaf and can and can teach me directly, you know, learning directly from someone who that is their first language. I hope to pay for lessons at some point. You know, on TikTok, I've noticed a swell of deaf content creators or content creators who can't speak, who do either I've seen American sign language and I've
seen British sign language. I don't know how much different they are. I assume every country has their own language as Yeah. As one would. It's great. It's great to see that because it tells me that it is becoming more normalized and Yeah. And more in the zeitgeist. And, like, you would go to school. I wish I'd had that option as a kid. If there had been sign language, what a cool option. Absolutely. It's up this whole other world, like any language. I I am curious as a person who is
completely deaf. How do you learn to make the the words and the sounds? How much do your hearing aids articulate sound around you? Yeah. So thank you for that question. Something that I think people don't often realize, because they they wouldn't have much context to realize it, is that just like any other way of living, there's a lot there's a there's a spectrum. Right? I happen to be somebody that my deafness is pretty severe to profound. I have profound deafness in my left ear and severe to
profound in my right. Pretty much close to almost no hearing without hearing aids. In fact, no hearing whatsoever in my left ear without a hearing aid, basically. And yet, I get comments all the time that, I sound like I'm not deaf. And that comes across you know, I take it as a compliment from from their perspective and and receive that in the way that they mean it. But I I must have some
mimicking ability. I don't know. I I worked really hard as a child to I asked my mom to tell me, like, when do when am I saying a word? Like, what part of the word doesn't sound right? And I would just practice until I almost memorized how it felt to say the words, quote, unquote, correctly. So there was all it's deceptive. My speaking is deceptive for people because it doesn't actually match my hearing loss or deafness from an audiologist perspective.
Whenever I get a new audiologist, they and they do the hearing test on me, they're always surprised because they weren't expecting it to be that profound. There are people with less deafness than than I have, and they don't speak as well as I do. So, like, all of all of this is a spectrum. And it at the end of the day, from my perspective, we're all just trying to communicate.
And, yeah, I think sometimes people get hung up on the way that they sound or the way that someone else sounds and not enough on listening to what they're trying to say and and who they seeing who they really are. You know? Yeah. Like like you're doing, which is wonderful. Thanks. When you're speak when I talk, when I speak, I have a voice that's happening in my head as well as voice that's being projected outward.
And as someone who can't hear, do you also and this may be the most ignorant question in the whole world, but I'm curious. Do you also do you hear a voice in your head? How does Yes. Listen to this vibration? Yeah. No. I definitely hear a voice in my head, and I think it's because of the fact that I was raised to learn how to speak. I think if I had been I I don't know. And I haven't asked this question of someone who is capital d deaf and and who doesn't wear hearing aids.
I know that they they have reported that they dream in sign language. You know? They dream communicating in in sign language. So I would also have to guess that maybe they don't have an inner voice that's an auditory one, but perhaps one that is a sign language one. That's just a guess. I I don't know that for certain, so that's a big disclaimer there. But for me, I do hear a voice when when I'm thinking or reading, and I I hear in my dreams as well.
That was going to be one of my questions, so I'm glad you brought it up. I I was curious about that. I I mean, it makes complete sense. Again, I think there's a disconnect for myself as well growing up of this idea that sign language is somehow other. It's a weird thing because you can other a person who's deaf. Yeah. That happens because I think that it's perceived a certain way. But then also the idea that this language is somehow other when it's not.
Yeah. Yeah. I am happy that, like, for example, I did a TikTok when I first had the procedure on my vocal cord. I did a thing. I I did it really quickly. I said, hey. This is what's going on. This is my voice. It's gonna be several months before it returns to normal, hopefully. Fingers crossed. And I didn't normally, I put captions on my TikToks, and I didn't for this one. And someone in the comments said, hey. I need captions. And I I was like, oh, I'm a dick. Of course you do.
And so it it it goes down to this idea of it's like, yeah. That's that is a no brainer. It's just, of course, you do. Mhmm. And that what's wrong with just like I interviewed a woman who was who was blind, and I described what I was wearing and what I looked like before we started the interview. So she had a context in her mind. And it's it's interesting how we place ideas of things outside of the reality of things for whatever reason, lack of understanding, bigotry, just confusion, fear.
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And I think too what you're you're you're touching on is there's almost a fear that I I sense it sometimes with some people. There's a fear that they feel like they might say something to offend me or or hurt my feelings or ask they're not sure if a question is appropriate. And there there are definite I've I've talked with deaf and and hard of hearing individuals who do get touchy about questions or, you know,
things like that. But I've never been I've I've always been appreciative when people ask questions because I see it as someone trying to get to know me, get to know something that's a part of me. You know? And and there's not a lot of information out there. I I even you know, I'll be honest. Part of the reason I didn't learn ASL as a child is I felt the stigma so strongly that if I learned ASL, I would be
seen as deaf. In fact, I didn't embrace the term deaf until probably seventy eight years ago because I I was always refer to myself as hard hard of hearing because I I've lived in two worlds, and I and I didn't want to think about living in two worlds. I wanted people to see me as, you know, quote unquote normal. And I I come to realize that I've only been hurting myself by participating
in that that stigma and that fear. That's part of why I didn't learn ASL is I was I was resistant to learning it because of that stigma of being seen as deaf. Kinda got away from what you were getting at, I think. But You you get to pass through the world on your own terms. Mhmm. So if you start to use this external language all bets are off.
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And I I've had deaf people come up to me and start signing, and there's there's a shame on on the other side too where I have to say, I'm so sorry. I I don't know how how to sign. And they they come up with such excitement. Oh, there's someone else in the world who I can speak to, and and then I have to I have to let them down. So there's there's sort of a pain on both sides of the equation
there. And that's why I'm I'm really appreciative when people talk about this more with me when they when they ask questions. That's how we're gonna break down stigma, you know, and make this world a better place for the future generations. And just one more thing. On closed captions, I'm so glad that you do that. I'm so glad that even hearing people of the younger generation, Gen z and and now Gen Alpha. I've seen it all over the place, read it
all over the place. They love watching with captions on, and that makes me so happy because it makes it more accessible for for everybody. You know? Yeah. To me, there's nothing distracting about captions. In fact, it's helped my daughter learn how to probably read quicker than some of her peers because we watch with captions on all the time. Yeah. And she can associate. Yeah. Exactly.
And when we were at the table during the awards ceremony of, where you got all the awards, excitingly, so I when when I sat down, I realized I could tell by your eye line that you were looking at my mouth. Yes. And I was like, oh, okay. So he reads lips. And I think I even asked you if that helped, and you said yes. And I knew that we were in such a loud environment. And I was I became hyperaware that during the conversation at the table, it was really because I was sitting right next
to you. Yeah. It was important for me to turn my body so you could watch my mouth. And it's funny because I do think that people would maybe be put out some people might be put out by that. Like, you have to adjust to me instead of the other way around. And I'm saying it, it's not hard to make a simple adjustment to make sure everybody at the table are experiencing the same thing as best as everyone can.
My greatest frustration with the human race is that people, we feel put out by just a little bit of effort to make sure everybody feels okay. Like, that's somehow dirty word now. It's become a dirty word to be aware, and woke is the colloquialism, but to be aware of other human beings around us. Yeah. That's a long pontificate into No. That's My frustration of the I get excited when I see, I I mean, I'm not hard of hearing. I'm not I don't have any issues around
auditory. Obviously, I have a vocal cord thing that I was born with. But when I see movies like CODA or when I see Marlee Matlin winning an Oscar, I'm like, fuck. Yeah. It makes the world smaller, and it's it's so important for people to see themselves, for people to see someone who's a little different. Mhmm. All of that is so imperative. It makes me so angry that that has become vilified. Can things be taken like, can you get extra?
Like, if I had come up to you and been like, oh, let me hold you like a bebe. No. That wouldn't be appropriate. No. No. Not what we're talking about. Right. Yeah. I mean, I I so appreciate you saying all that. I mean, I and for being aware of how you could help me understand you in that loud environment. Something that I was taught, and this is exactly related to this, something that I was it was a mind shift for me.
When I when I was casting my film, it was a nonnegotiable for me for deaf and and hard of hearing characters that they be played by actors who are deaf and and hard of hearing. That was never in question. But because I didn't have much experience with the capital e deaf community, and I was fortunate enough to be able to cast Sandra Mae Frank, amazing deaf actress, by the way, and such a sweetheart, like, one of the kindest people. I hired her her interpreter for our Zoom conversations.
And her interpreter, before I ever met with Sandra Mae Frank, said the reason that I'm hiring her is because I she's my accommodation. I don't speak ASL, so I need the interpreter, not her. And that was and I totally agree, but I had never thought about it like that before. So what we're getting at is if if somebody wants to communicate with me and they would like a, you know, a response, then sometimes I just need a little bit of assistance in some cases. Sometimes I have to read lips.
And like you said, it makes it difficult if someone is talking a different direction and and I can't read their lips. I will try to adapt. I mean, because that's what I've done my whole life is adapt, but I can't I can't always participate. So, you know, I think the I understand there's this sort of, like, human tendency of, not another thing I have to do for somebody else. Right? There's there's that life is hard as it is for every person, but we can't live life alone. We need each other.
And sometimes some of us need, a little bit of accommodation to participate if you want us to participate. And that's the way that I I look at it. And, you know, because I've had to adapt my whole life, I don't get offended if someone doesn't, accommodate or doesn't realize that that I need that accommodation. And sometimes I'll just say, can you please repeat that? I didn't catch it. So sometimes I'll advocate for myself.
Yeah. I think what what you said is is not only completely right, but completely empathetic, and and I appreciate that. Of course. Absolutely. I mean, it seems like a no brainer, but I I remember watching The West Wing, one of the greatest shows ever made. And I remember the first time the character, Joey, who is deaf and has has a interpreter. And when the character, Josh was talking with Joey, and she said, look at me, because he kept looking at the interpreter.
Mhmm. And she said, look at me. And that was such an interesting you know, I'd never thought about it until that moment. Like, of course, because we're prone to follow the sound. Yep. But they are interpreting It's no different. As we said in the beginning, if you went to the United Nations and you were talking with someone from Zimbabwe and they were speaking their native tongue, you wouldn't be looking at the interpreter the whole time. You'd be looking at the dignitary. Right. Exactly.
Exactly. It was such an interesting moment. And, again, I speak to the this is why things like having this stuff in television and movies is so important. Absolutely. In that example that you gave, the communication is not happening between the person who hears and the interpreter. The communication is happening between the deaf person and the hearing person that's having the conversation. So, you know, again,
it goes back to communication. Interpreters, hearing aids, lip reading, all of the closed captions, all of those things are tools, but the communication happens between people. Yeah. And when you know, the reason that you would look at somebody else is a sign of I'm communicating with you, a sign of respect, a sign of connection. Right? So, yeah, what what you said is right
on. I haven't seen enough of West Wing to have seen that character, so that's that's great to know that the character Joey, I think you said, is is in there. They are exactly right, and I'm glad that that was such a positive and mind shifting experience for viewers just like you. Yeah. It was great. Are those Emmys behind you, by the way? No. No. That those are communicator and telly awards for commercial that I did. So Cool. Telly's awesome.
Yeah. So I'm I'm proud, but, you know, this is my work environment. You teach at Baylor. Correct? I work at Baylor. I don't teach. I I am the associate director of digital strategy for the business school. I got my film degree here, because we needed a video production department and because making films was always a dream for me. It was it was both, you know.
And so we I directed and co co wrote a commercial that we shot for the business school, a couple years ago, and and that's what that's about. Sweet. Look at you. You can ask. Yeah. Let's get into the film that you that that was at Waco, Healing Hands. Yeah. Talk you said that it was inspired from childhood, but talk a little bit about the process, what the film is about. Yeah. It's it's called Healing Hands, as you said. It's really it's it's inspired by my childhood, but it's not it's
a completely literal story. There are definitely, like, the faith healing scene, which spoiler alert for those who wanna see it and haven't seen it. The faith healing scene is as close as I can remember it being like with a fictional set of characters, but pretty much the almost the exact same scenario with the exception of the mustard seed, which is physical in the movie but conceptual when I was a child. It's a six year old boy named Jonah who is struggling at school, is bullied at school.
His parents take him to a faith healer, and, he, like I did, lied and said that he's healed, he's caught in the lie, and it's sort of a an eye opening experience for the parents. And then the end of the film, which is when Sandra Mae Frank's character, comes in, the end of the film, the teacher's sister is deaf and the the teacher knows ASL fluently. And because of witnessing bullying of Jonah in her classroom, she brings in her sister to teach the kids about ASL and about what
it means to be deaf. And Jonah finds a new form of healing, and it's in it's in the hands of everybody who can speak ASL. So that's that's what the story is about. Making it, like I said, was I it the biggest surprise for me and the biggest reason why I I don't I'm not one of those people that honestly, I really don't care about awards. I know they're sitting out here, but it's for the work appearance or whatever. I I don't I really don't care about the awards. I'm not out to be a, like,
a world famous film director. Be cool, but that's not what I think I'm here for. I am honestly more excited by people who've seen the film coming up to me and telling me their story and or telling me this film would be great for someone that I love or someone that I know who is in the same kind of situation, it would mean something to them too. And because of that, it means something to me as a viewer.
I I am more touched by that experience and also the experience of the production process, the people who came together and made the film with me, who came alongside this really difficult project, but were they they were they've resonated with the story. Even people who had no experience with deaf or hard of hearing people, they resonated with the story so much that they were excited about making this film. I I did not expect that. I expected them to treat it just like any other job,
but they really didn't. And that and and I had made some other films before that, so the difference was palpable for me. So I was honestly healed by that process. You know? It like, as I said earlier, it doesn't feel like a burden to carry that story anymore because now it's a story that can be shared with many others. And it could do some good, and it has done some good, and and that means
the world to me. And my ultimate goal is, eventually, after it stops, having its festival run, maybe premieres online, is being able to share it with parents of of deaf and hard of hearing children who are hearing themselves as parents because that's the situation that my parents were in. That's the situation I was in. And there's not there historically has not been a lot of support. But within the last decade, there has been communities that have sprung up for parents to support each other
and bring their kids together. And it brought tears to my eyes when I saw saw those groups because that's something I wish I had had as a kid. So, yeah, I hope this dome can can be shared with people like them. I hope so too. But I also hope it it's seen by people who are in the hearing community as well. I agree. The same reasons we've been talking about this whole time, you know. Did you call him Jonah because of the feeling? Yeah. It's Jonah and the whale. Yeah. Feeling like I was
in the belly of the beast. And and, honestly, I structured the story in that way too. So it starts in the classroom, goes inside the home, goes in the faith healing scene, which is the center of the story. Yeah. The belly, if you will, and then he comes back out the other side in reverse order. Yeah. I love that. I'm a big fan of those sorts of things. It it kinda fell in my lap, you
know, once I named him Jonah. I actually named him Jonah because there's a there's a movie called And Your Name is Jonah from the seventies. It's a television movie. And it's about a boy who is deaf and his parents kind of bring him home from an institution, that they had put him in. Trying to reintegrate him into the community was a struggle for all of them, for both the boy and the parents. And I that movie touched me. The character
touched me. So I I named him Jonah first after that character, and then I it I it clicked with me because as a child, I learned about Jonah and the whale and, you know, I thought of structuring the story in that way as a result of naming the character after that other character. So it was it was a kind of a serendipitous thing. What was your parents' reaction when they watched the movie, and then what conversation was facilitated from that?
Yeah. So they they supported me the whole way, and I I knew it was gonna be difficult for them. They they have a lot of shame about it, a lot of guilt about it, and I I wish I understand why, but I as a parent now, I understand why. But I wish also that as their child, they they can let that go. I've told them many times that and and I told them this after, you know, they were in tears hugging me after watching the movie for the first time,
just kind of sobbing in my arms. And I've told them many times, you were doing what you you were doing anything. You were grasping at straws. You were trying to help because you knew what awaited me in the world, because you knew the stigma. And I don't have to tell them that it wasn't the right choice. They know that now. You know, they felt that after that experience.
But their choice came from a place of love, not a place of shame about me, but a place of fear about what the world could do to me growing up. So there's you know, that's where listening in this world is so important. Because on the surface, you could look at someone's actions like that, you know, taking their child to a faith healer and see, oh, that's messed up. You know? Why why would you do that to your child? And and I can understand and appreciate that perspective.
But in my parents' case, the intent was not one of shame about me, but of fear about the world. And that that's where listening to their story, listening to others becomes critical in in getting getting through this world alive and and happy. Yeah. Tricky. That, isn't it? It is. It is. It's very tricky. When you found out you were having you were having your first child Mhmm. Did you have thoughts around deafness in regards to your child? Did that where where did that put you in a headspace?
So for me, my wife was a little more concerned about that because she was she didn't grow up in that environment. She accepts me for who I am and, would accept our child if she happened to be deaf as well. I was not concerned one way or the other because I knew that if my child turned out to be deaf, I would love them. If if they weren't,
I would love them. But also, if they did happen to be deaf, if I had had a parent who wore hearing aids, I wouldn't have maybe perceived the stigma, and I would have had somebody who could relate. I would have had somebody who could teach me some things sooner, you know, to to get by and maybe and I maybe we could learn ASL together at the same time. I could be the child as a parent almost like a child with them learning ASL. So there there was not really any fear on my part.
Excitingly, we're expecting in February. Hi. So we'll see what happens. The grass. Boy, a boy this time, and so yay. And so I I don't have any fear about it. But what's amazing is the brazenness of some people coming up to us the first time she was pregnant saying, aren't you worried about if your child's going to turn out deaf too? You know, they're
I I get where they're coming from. They're coming from a place of probably the same place my parents were in, that fear of, you know, you want what's best for your child. But I don't think they've they've realized how that sounds. Yeah. You know? It it it sounds like you you think there's something unhappy about the way that I live. Sure. I am just as unhappy or happy as the rest of you. You know? I am not hung up about
being deaf. I don't even think about it most of the time unless I'm made aware of not understanding what somebody says or being in a noisy environment. That's about it. The good news is regardless of whether your children are hearing or not hearing, you still can do that thing of learning ASL with them. Exactly. You don't have to wait Exactly. If they're I don't have to
wait. I don't have to wait. The the urgency would be there, you know, to to learn it and making time for it would be critical with the child that, is deaf. Because, I mean, if I had been taught the opportunity to learn both from day one, I could have been a part of a bigger world. You know? I could have been part of the hearing world and the capital d deaf community.
From my perspective, a child's life a a child's life and world only grows bigger when they can learn their primary language and ASL is their primary language or English is their primary language and the other is secondary. It's it's something that I've thought about in the past, and if hearing parents have if they have questions about that, that's that's what I would say. You know? It's each or both Yeah. If you can. I mean, I'm a big fan of teaching kids several languages
because, again, makes the world smaller. It's really good for the brain. Yeah. It's better at math and music, and all of it is connected. Absolutely. Absolutely. Jordan, you're awesome. I'm so glad that So are you, Susan. That I sat next to you at the at the ceremony. Thank you. Me too. And and and thank you also for the kindness of helping me understand what was being said at the table because it was a quite a quite a noisy award ceremony. I could not hear half half of what was being said.
Yeah. Well, me neither. And I have I have my hearing. It was very loud in there. Yeah. Yeah. Loud in there. Tell people how they may find you out in the world. And do you have a time frame for the movie going to the outside world? As you and I both know, films have to go to the festivals first. Yes. I'd be coming to someone's town, so always keep an eye out on film festivals. But how might people find you and your work and all that?
I have a Facebook page, called, for healing hands, so you can search for it there. If you see a a little boy on the cover with hearing aids that in a classroom setting, that's still from the film, so you're probably on the right page. You can also email me. It's just firstandlastname@atGmail or I'm on LinkedIn. I'm really not big into social media personally. Like, I'm just not active on it, but, people can could reach out to me those ways, and I'm happy to share
anything they wanna know. But as far as staying in touch with the film and and how that's going, that Facebook page will probably be the place to to go. Yeah. And I'll put links on Hey Human podcast links page to get there easy so you don't have to go digging around Facebook, which is its own world. Yes. Its own world. Well, then thank you so much. This has been great. Thank you. It's been an honor, and please stay in touch. It's it's lovely to know you, Susan, and thank you for what you do.
Oh, well, thank you. And absolutely. And I loved Waco. So Oh, come back. Please do. What a great town. The food was great. The people were great. It was fun walking around. It had all that history and Yeah. A cool town. Absolutely. A shout out to Waco is always appreciated because if you're just driving past Waco on on the interstate, it doesn't look like much. You really have to get off the interstate to experience what wake Waco really is. It's it's a lovely town.
Lots of, antique stores. I I had a ball. I walked around a lot by myself, and I had a really good time. And the food, every place I ate was awesome. Yeah. Waco is big into restaurants. We have a lot of them, and they're often very good. Right. Jordan, thank you, and thank you for listening, everybody. Bye. Bye. Rate, review, and subscribe to Hey Human podcast on iTunes or wherever you get your podcast. Thanks. Bye.