Hey, human. How's it going? Susan Ruth here. Thanks for listening to another episode of Hey Human Podcast. This is episode 380, and I had a conversation with Jessica Hairston. Jessica is a former foster kid, an adult adoptee who reunited with her birth family at the age of 19. She's a survivor, an exceptional writer. Her poetry collection, power of our wounds is a moving look at childhood, racial trauma, sexual trauma, mental health, creativity and belonging.
Uh, even if you are not really into poetry, which I am very much into poetry, and I loved her collection, I dogeared the book and put sticky notes all over it. It's so, so well done. Uh, but even if you're not into poetry, her story is really an incredible one, and I think that you will find something in there that you enjoy. Uh, just f y I though there is a trigger warning on this episode for sexual assault and abuse. Check out, hey human podcast.com for links.
And to learn more about my guests in the show, check out susan ruth.com to learn about me and my other artistic endeavors. Follow Susan Ruths and hey, human podcast on social media. Find my albums on Spotify, apple Music, Amazon music, or wherever you get your music. There's lots of records out there. Great review and subscribe to, Hey, human Podcast on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. It's super helpful and I really appreciate those rates and reviews.
Alright, thank you for listening. Be well, be kind, be love. And here we go. Jessica Harrison, welcome to Hey, human. Thank you for having me. Shout out to Tony, who I adore and always send amazing humans to, to talk with me. So thank you to Tony too. , were you a student of his? I was, yeah. Uh, yeah, I graduated Oow in 2016. Bishop Oow, um, had him freshman and I believe junior year took African American studies. I wish I'd had a teacher like him when I went to school. Yeah.
You wrote this book that you sent to me. Thank you. Power of our Wombs. And it is so, so, so like a thousand sos. Good. It's so good. Thank you, . It's, uh, there's so many feelings I've been feeling while reading it. I talked to my dad this morning and I, he said, oh, who are you interviewing today? And I, and I said, you and I said the title of the, the book, and he said, oh,
she must be a feminist. And I said, what does that mean to you, dad? And it, it actually triggered this hour long conversation about his understanding from his generation of what it means. And my generation, which is I'm probably, I think, older than you, so, and your generation of what that word means.
But I thought it was so interesting that he hears the word womb and he just puts it on mother or a woman instead of the idea that he too grew in a womb, that it's also a part of him and his experience. Yeah. Anyway. Fascinating. Yeah, no, exactly. Agreed. And you know, I think also, you know, we're in this age where we have these conversations about us as human beings
possessing both feminine and, you know, masculine energy. And I think, um, the same goes, you know, I'm reading a book or I'm listening to an audio book about trauma and, um, specifically looking at like, avoiding attachment styles. And I was just kind of talking about, um, I like the language that they use about systems. You have your sexual system, you have your caretaker, parental, you know, system and et cetera, et cetera. Um, but I, I think that human beings,
we both have like a maternal aspect and a paternal aspect in us. So, no, agreed that it, there is this instinct to sort of place it on the female experience only, um, which is not the case. Tell me about your childhood and how that shaped you. So I'm 25. I was born in Oakland. I was born to two drug addicted parents. Um, I was born addicted to crack.
I think it's really interesting because as a child, um, or maybe more, I, I can't exactly remember the first time my mother, I think it might've been actually high school, that she allowed me to sort of look through like our, my adoption documentation and things of that nature. But it, you know, it does, it's interesting to actually sit and look at, um, you know, sort of written in like medical jargon of like, okay, baby,
it's gonna have to go through withdrawal first, test, run. You know, my, my birth father, um, was some piece to him. He passed away from AIDS the last 10 years of his life. He kind of was afflicted with a lot of complication related things due to, you know, immunocompromised, um, situation.
So just immediately coming into the world, there's these, you know, I'm another one of those children that has all these, you know, tubes connected to them, taking medications, being checked for h I v. You know what else I learned in the documentation was, um, that I actually had a, or at the time when I was around like 14, um,
this is when I did for sure realize that I had at least one sibling. Um, because the paperwork was kind of talking about like, you know, the courts found another child by the birth mom, um, 12 years older, had been living with her for like two or three years in the beginning and then was placed into foster care as a result of the drug abuse. And so in that first poem, ours Minds in the book, I talk about, um, having, so once I re reunited with my birth, my birth siblings,
my parents have both passed. But when I reunited my birth siblings, um, twenty, twenty nineteen, uh, or 2018, and I was like 19 or so, something like that, I reunited. And that's when in talking to my mother's first daughter, that's when I learned, and she's actually the first sibling I met, um, surprisingly. 'cause I was like, I don't know how I'm gonna meet this, this child. Like, it's just referred to as minor and her identity was protected. Um,
it's a 12 year gap, and I want, she kind of be anywhere at this point. So in, in speaking with her, she's like, you know, you know, my mother, you know, she was already fairly addicted. She probably started her addiction in her teen years. And then by the time my sister was born around, she was about 20 or 21, she had her, she, you know, sold her, you know, she needed drugs and straight gave her to the, the drug dealer, um, as payment.
And she, we don't exactly know how long my sister was with him, but over at least a week, maybe longer. And no one, no one came looking for her until family members came over and like, so where's ? Where's, where's your daughter? What's going on? And even within that, you know, my sister was like cooking for herself at two years old,
trying to move around the kitchen and boil water by herself. Um, and so she even has this massive burn on her hand, she said, and it wasn't until she was about 18 or 19 going to get her first job having to go up to like Sacramento, I think, um, and get her official birth record outside of her, like foster care paperwork and all these things. And that's where she, the, the foster worker was like, I can't really tell you this,
but I'm gonna just tell you now. Or I'm gonna just kind of slip it in like I do. I think we do know what happened to your hand and kind of do know why you ended up in foster care. So that was her first time learning about her own story as well. But it was just this really profound experience of like, Hey, can I ask you about this? Like, I, I have this, it's interesting how it's kind of written sort of, uh, very formal, um,
technical language. Like, is there a way that I kind of wanted the story to be humanized? And I wanted to hear it from my sister's point of view instead of just what's real, basically written up in this paperwork. It was just so interesting to hear that, get that filled in from my sister, and then she was like, can you please send me the paperwork? I know it's yours,
but, um, you know, it's something, it's a form of healing for her as well. Uh, I think I went to like a sort of private preschool kindergarten, um, that was, I don't know if you know much about Oakland. Um, so this would've been maybe 2002 th 2001 maybe to 2003 or four, I don't know, just given context of the urban area. We, we, this school was located, um, on the water kind of by, um, before Jack London. Like once you get off eight 80 under the freeway, um,
kind of on the water. Um, it's interesting, I'm reading a book right now called, um, you might have heard about it or not, the writers come out at night. It's about like police corruption, cover ups in Oakland. There's this restaurant that I used to eat at during that time, um, called Buttercup. And we, it was very, it was right like right across the street from my school,
but it pops up in his book as a place where, um, O P D goes to often. And, um, you know, they'll go do something really, you know, horrific and then go meet as a group and like eat lunch at the Buttercup during the early 2000, 2000, 2004. So it was very interesting to sort of see that pop up buttercup such a random place. It's mostly just warehouses over there, or at least it was at the time.
So it was, it honestly just made sense because of, um, you know, um, O p D loves like many of these type of police departments. They love finding, uh, abandoned areas and taking people over there and abusing people and things like that. So it's just interesting that way, um, how urban urban development plays a part in kind of empowering militarization and, uh, police conduct misconduct. And then I went to a public, public elementary school up on 98 past the zoo called Grass Valley
Elementary School. Grass Valley, um, has been in the news kind of lately. Uh, as of maybe like 2018, the mayor, I think it was Libby at the time, Schaff, uh, kind of in city council of Oakland, had all of these directives with the school board. Two, um, closed like up to about 11 schools or more, um, throughout Oakland.
And it's kind of been litigating and going forward since 2018. Um, but I remember in 2018, a lot of students kind of left this left school doing a lot of walkouts, doing a lot of protests, and a lot of other schools in Oakland were just like slated to close, which are mostly schools in West Oakland and maybe downtown or West Oakland. But, you know, strategically missing areas that are serving white, white students. Literally like this spring or the end of 2022,
they announced that they weren't going to close the schools. Like we, all of the protesting, all of the, they occupied Parker Elementary, um, to try to prevent the closure of all of these schools. And so it's been like six or six or so years of, um, hard work to prevent that.
And so it's really interesting to actually see that come through. Currently I'm, I'm a student creative writing major, or, well, I may be dropping out at the moment, but I was studying at Mills College in Oakland, uh, which is now known as Northeastern University starting July, 2022. And the, the campus actually has a middle school and a elementary school. So my middle school is on the campus, it's called Julie Morgan School for Girls.
So, you know, in my class you probably had about three or three or four black students total. Um, and in the beginning, you know, things were great. They like the, having a diverse background of students, so to speak. I mean, it's not that diverse, but it was diverse for a school like that.
And then I kind of was just like, you know, but if your daughter has any troubles, any social troubles, any academic troubles, any troubles outside of school that trickle in, um, unfortunately, or, you know, you know, it's hard, you know, 'cause I remember when I was going there, one thing they used to always say was, you come to school, you know, you have to leave your problems at the door. Like, your problems are not allowed to come in the classroom. This is, you know, we,
we want a distraction-free environment. Um, like they would say this to us. So I was like, well, I don't think that's how that works, but we'll, we'll see , you know, it ended, it ended, it ended pretty painfully for me. Um, and I was like, honestly, I, I wouldn't do it again. I wouldn't send my children there. Um, just because of how horribly the, the administration handled issues. Um, and, you know, the equity in supporting students was just not there.
There was a ton of support for the, the, the white kids that come from the Oakland Hills and the Berkeley Hills and like, nothing really for anyone else. Were you going in and out of foster care this whole time? Did you get adopted early on? I was in foster care for about 10 months and I first start, first started my placement at 10 months with my mom and would go home with her frequently for about three months and then have full-time placement.
And then it takes about another two years for the adoption to be finalized.
I think my biggest experience take, or my biggest takeaway from that is, you know, you know, as we were just talking about like avoiding attachment, there is definitely, um, I just learned about this term called relinquishment trauma, which is something that adopted children feel is you sort of have to, um, you know, in, in matriculating into your new family, there's this relinquish period that you go through where your adopt family kind
of asks you to focus just on them and kind of let go of the past that you've just come from. Um, and so I can definitely say that it's something that I, um, experienced in our relationship with my mom. And um, it's something that definitely eroded. 'cause there was, especially, particularly with my mom, who also I would say has an avoidant attachment style. There's just this need to sort of avoid anything that is unsettling and
uncomfortable. And so, um, you know, that's part of wrapped up in my, um, identity issues with my names and stuff like that. Because even though Jessica is the person that I have the longest in my life, Kani is someone very early on that I had did the original trauma of my, the way that I came into the world. And then the second trauma of having a family that asked me to sort of leave that part of myself behind and not let that be someone that I can continue to identify as.
Um, that's your birth, your birth name? Yeah, my birth name, uh, Kimani, you know, when I was, so then when I was seven, um, the wound was additionally reopened, um, in us adopting a child or trying to adopt a child again. Um, she was about two and I was about seven. Quick side note, you know, it's really interesting because I actually remember my mom kind of sitting me down. I was like, what do you think about having a sibling? And it kind of,
the conversation was followed up with her. Like, she pulled out a whole folder and like, you know, it really was sort of like you have these pictures of children printed out. Um, or at least she did. I don't, I dunno. It's like a serious catalog of children, . Yeah. And, you know, because I think this something similar happens, like with surrogacy and with an open, open adoptions where you kind of can be presented with the, the family that you want to adopt a child from, um,
where you can kind of like look through and meet the family. Um, I know that's, um, a story that happens as well. Well, I think adoption is big business. I don't know that people understand that there's a lot of money to be made in the baby getting market. And so when I see things like abortion rights being taken away, which will more impact lesser advantage economic peoples, then all these babies that will be born as a result.
Well, yeah, it make sense that the people who make money off of babies wanna make sure the people that don't have money, so that when they have babies, they give them up. That that process keeps going.
Agreed again about the economics. You know, um, they, they tried a similar thing in the eighties and nineties where, um, you know, there was this real push in hospitals to, and, and I kind of state this in the book, but it was really, it really was this of really targeting black mothers in labor and forcibly testing them to make sure that they could find something on you, that you are addicted or anything that stands out to white mothers as much drugs,
but they were never tested and their children were not taken from them. So there really was, um, a push to keep a system going and keep making money off of newborn children. And there's a world that foster children essentially as they, you know, if they age in the system that they play in the workforce in, um, the, you know, incarceration force, um, and all of that. So we have this sure force of stu kids, people who, um,
will, will always be in that world keeping, keeping cots open. Um, you adopted. Into a white family or a black family? My mom is black. Um, it's a black family and I just actually started learning about the Hairstons. It's just their father side of the family. Um, so it was a book written on them, the hairstons, Scottish, you know, made their money off of, off of slavery.
So I would say that they're, you know, I'm still learning, but like, you know, having a parent that's fairly avoid and attachment attached, it's hard to learn about their, their life, um, and the, the where they come from. Um, which is also something that kind of made it difficult for me to fully, um, you know, settle in the family, um, as a kid and, uh, um, understand who I'm quote unquote related to or living with and being, uh, reared by the hairstons.
Like my father or my mother's father's family were pretty, um. Bougie. Bougie, I would say, um, in, in the historical context. Um, they, you know, were definitely some of the first to be able to go to, um, historically black college. And so there was sort of a little bit of an elitist mindset that sort of divided the family. Um, after, once they got a little bit older, um, the father had become estranged from the family,
moved to a whole different state. And so, you know, even within the book, right, like there's, I talk about mother wounds and I talk about, um, you know, the history of mother and mother figures that I've had, like even as far as, um, dance teachers and stuff like that. But I don't talk much about my adoptive mom, mostly because, um, particularly because, and I feel kind of like I did a little bit of a disservice.
Like I talked all this stuff about what they're about and blah, blah, blah, but it's missing a large element of the person who actually raised me. Um, and it's just because we are strategically at odds about being open and vocal about, um, my life as it pertains to her and, um, her life and just any kind of lineage that just connects her at all. Um, so the last book, the last poem of the book is a sort of dedicated to my mom.
It's more of a love poem. I, you know, I actually gave it as a Mother's Day gift. Communicating is a struggle between us. And so sometimes that's one way that I use writing where I'm like, you know, it's hard for me. It's hard to talk about hard things and it's hard to express intimacy as well and feelings of love. So I wrote it to her, I wrote love to her and it through a poem. This is, um,
the thing about mothers at the very end, towards the end. But I, um, hope in the second version of my book, I'm probably gonna make it longer. It'll have essays and prose writing, things of that nature. Um, maybe even a little bit more research. It'll be probably twice a length, um, maybe come out sometime next year. Um. Have you reunited with your other siblings besides the eldest? Yes. Um, my father has, my, my father's first two kids, um,
are in the early thirties. My sister's in her late thirties, my mother's side. So my father's two kids. Um, they all basically, like my sister lives in Pinola, which is Marin County. It's about 35, 40 minutes from, oh, um, the heart of the bay. My father's kids live. My sister lives in, uh, just moved to Las Vegas. She was living up in Roseville past Sacramento. Um, my brother was living in Stockton, and I have two younger siblings. Uh, so I have a younger sister who's will be 21 in October.
When you have a trauma from the get go, we could all, we could argue that being born is traumatic enough, but then you've got this other stuff compiled on top of that, and then you get into the foster and then you get adopted every, at every turn. You're told an identity. Right now you are a crack addicted baby. That's your first identity. Now you're a foster kid, now you're a a survivor of abuse. Now you're an adopted person. Now here's your records. And they tell you this whole other story.
And now you are going to a school that says you're not allowed to have feelings about anything. I mean, and then you meet siblings who are then giving you this whole other identity. How, like, I personally for me named Susan, I don't think my parents got my name right. I don't know what my name is, but I know it's not that I don't know what it is. I know it's not that. Yeah. But how do all those hugely defining moments in your life, how do you find who you are when you're a soul?
If you believe in a soul, in a whatever, this is . Yeah. And, and that operates in its own existence too. Yeah. It's. A big question. It's a big question, but I am curious. Yeah. You know, um, childhood was definitely hard. It was hard for me, um, to figure out who I am, um, and, um, work with all of these stories and these narratives in my life, like you said, just because of, especially with, um,
not having space and real freedom or support to do that. You know, it's hard to grow up when you're like three or four, right? You still barely have a conscious memory. Um, but you have an overload of feelings and emotions already sitting in your body, um, particularly around like inconsistency and attachment and trust. And you then you become this adopted child. And, you know, I seen a poem, there's this, this, this urge of this. And I mean, I'm so young,
it's hard to say that. I was like, someone sat me down and was like, you have to be this and that as an adopted child. This is a woman who is, or, you know, yearning from it for, for a daughter to do the maternal experience, um, is there's something here that needs to be fulfilled. Because, you know, I think also within the, the placement system, there's this divide between how we understand foster kids and adopted kids.
And so foster kids is like, just give them a home. Just give them supervision, you know, won't worry about the rest. Just get 'em, you know, um, with adopted children, it's like, okay, life is great. Now you've been adopted. Like, yay, you are, you're normal again. Like, that is not, neither of those narratives are true and or fully, you know, uh, correct.
And really leave kids. And, and the, the families, foster families, adopted families without a real understanding of reality and of the support need for those realities. And so to be three or four, and you have these things, you know, swirling around in your, in your body, memories, feelings, all of these things. Um, you, there's this desire on my part to be able to better communicate with my mom, because I could see that Bonnie was a struggle.
And I think it's interesting because some of my later paperwork, um, say things like, um, child is progressing well, she's smiling, she appears to be happy. But, um, that is not really the narrative. That's, that's fully true. And even if you can catch my mom in a moment where she's, you might, she might slip up and say something that is not, um, what she really wants to come out, you know, doesn't, you know, so, you know, know's. Just say things like, um, you know, you never, you, you just,
you cried a lot. You cried a lot. You know, you didn't have your first smile until you were like, almost two and a half. Um, 'cause smiling is one of those things that I've learned as far as child development has something that you get from imitation. And when you don't have consistent, um, adult in your life, it takes a long time to gain, gain those things. And so even when I was a kid, my mom would, would say things like, um, you were fine. You were fine. Like,
you were not abused. You were not abused. But then we'll say things like, but you know, when I got you, like, you were clearly underdeveloped. Like you couldn't speak, you weren't babbling, you weren't crawling, you couldn't lift your own neck, you know, or, um, lighter, you had the ball patch in the back, which is not unusual for babies, right? Right. But some people do say that it could be an indication of someone, a child that's just been laying in a, a, a crib, um, without much uptime.
And so I think it's interesting because then as I got a little older and I was with my mom and I was starting to be socializing in daycares, and then I was like, would not sleep. And I've essentially been in, had insomnia, most of my, like, it just, I've never really been a good sleeper. Well, with all that, that childhood trauma, I would imagine it would develop a sense of sleeping with one eye open. Yes. So you never really get fully rested. Right. And so I had this,
this nickname as a child of being observant and being an observer. And so like, I'd be at daycare and the guy be like, lay down, lay on, go to sleep. Just, just five minutes, go to sleep. And I'd go, oh, , I'm up. I'm watching. I'm not going to sleep. And so I think it's interesting that my mom is unable to see the, the connection there. But in your first year, I think it's scary to even get the idea that, you know, because my mom was definitely, like,
there was probably at least 10 kids in the group home that you were in. Like, it was very busy. It's not so much judgment. I mean, I'm not trying to take care of 10 kids. It's a lot, especially if you don't know them very well and in and out, in and out, whatever. But it goes in line with the feelings I have of not, just not, yeah. Not, there's a lack of trust. And it's so deeply innate. I,
I'm having a hard time even fighting it. Um, and it's something that I've had to go and do research on for adopt kids. It's like, you know, I've talked to adoptees who are like, I was basically placed with a family in three days and was never really able to emotionally recover. I was addicted very young. Um, and not the house never really bonded well with the adoptive parents. And they take that very personally. I mean, it's hard after you think, okay,
well, it's just a phase. It'll by middle school, by high school, maybe by the beginning of college they'll start finding themselves and they'll, they'll come back and it, it doesn't usually, um, work that way. Us a lot of times, if nothing else, it tends to heal itself possibly when that adopted child starts to have kids themselves. Um, that's what I see most like in blogs and people talking about their own personal
experience. Um, but I didn't know that there were so many adopted adoptees who are like in their thirties and they're like, I don't know when I'm gonna be able to try, you know, connect with my adopted parents and these, the people I've been with for 30 years or whatever. It's, um, validating. But it's scary because it's not a place that you wanna be when you're like, people are telling you, well, this is like, you've got a beautiful family. Look.
Lucky you, like, you know, chip on your shoulder about blah, blah. I'm like, I've, I've been working really hard to solve intimacy and attachment issues in my relationship with my mom because she was so insistent on, you are not abused, let's not talk about this. You've got a new family, let's move forward. Your name is Jessica. Everything's fine. We're great, we're good. And now you put me in therapy at six years old and now I'm 25 and we still don't
have a relationship. And if we just allowed me to be me in the beginning, we really, maybe, maybe we wouldn't be here as much to the degree we are as, um, almost estranged. Um, and it's really heartbreaking. It really is. Um, uh. That's a lot of expectation on a child, first of all. And secondly, it's, it's not about the adoptive parents. It should be about, in my humble opinion, it should be about the children. So them pro any adoptive parent providing
a stable, that's the baseline. Yes. A healthy, nurturing, loving baseline. That's the fucking baseline. So it's, it's not a superhero thing. You're not saving the world. That's the, the least you can do, honestly. It's providing warmth and love and shelter and food. And really, in my humble opinion, again, I don't know 'cause I'm not adopted, but it's to expect a child to somehow
magically be like, oh, here we are. This, everything's great. Now, even at a young age, I've heard a lot about adoptive and I v f kids who grow up with this innate sense, deep sense of I am, I, I, there's something missing. It's, it's either or. There's an abandonment that is so deep. Yeah. And you talk a lot about generational trauma as well in, in your book and the idea of how far back have we been abandoned? How far back does it go? There's this,
I'm right here. This really from the beginning, uh, of the book, it, it grabbed me and this line, you say, and I still keep my hands up to shield my face to prevent any new loving that won't stay, that I don't have the power to keep to so powerful, which gives me shivers. . Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Uh, you know, um, it's interesting you picked that out. Um, that, that's, I don't mean that lightly. Um, yeah, that is another one of the trauma responses that I had as a kid,
was to be highly defensive. Um, and I'd have these defensive postures that, um, became, um, habits or normal. So like when I say like, I would rub my, like it was when you spend this much time in the crib like this, and then eventually you just start, and then I would just kind of keep my face and it's kind of like a stem in a way where it's like a thing that I do to comfort myself. And so I had this, it's weird, I'm being honest, but, um, I have this No.
But really quick, I just wanna say for those that, because this is a listening show, uh, she put her hands up over her, her face. So this just say, yeah. Yeah. Um, and, and, um, so I have this sort of, one of my, one way that I kind of regulate myself is by rubbing fabric. Um, so that's blankets, pillows, comforters and clothing. Um, and so my, my thing wasn't really sucking my thumb, but it was kind of holding these, these items to myself, um,
that I considered mine. And that's, you know, people say, you know, kids are, are very, um, stingy, but it's not protective of your space, protective of your belongings. Um, you know, that's, it's an only child thing, but I think mine's even started before that, you know? And so I kind of make that parallel. And, um, in another poem about the girl that we adopted, I wish I could remember her birth name, but I'll just refer to her as Ricky.
I do remember her being like, it was very difficult, you know, to, oh, you know, let's, we're gonna grab her bag, her backpack, put something in, it, takes something out. And that would be a meltdown. Like, don't touch my stuff. Don't touch my clothes, don't touch me. Yeah. Very, very deep abandonment. And, um, you know, as far as how far back does the trauma go?
Uh, and also to sort of answer your other question, um, I think that, you know, reuniting my birth siblings, my, particularly my sister, uh, Kenisha, she lives in Las Vegas, I believe we're nine years apart. She has a 10 year old son, Micah. She, she has been one of the, the biggest, strongest, um, reconnecting, uh, uh, uh, sort of filling, filling a void, um, within me, not to use her sort of as like a void filler. That's not, that's not the goal.
But it has definitely, like, you know, people kind of warn you often as a, as a young child in a place in the system of like, you, you could meet them, you can meet your family all you want, and they, they probably won't be the people. They, they won't be anything for you. They're just gonna let you down. You know, you get your heart broken, get used,
whatever. Um, and it's been quite opposite. Um, um, in fact, I, I've felt stronger and I've received stronger support and sense of fa familial support than I have in most of my life in my adopted family. And that is not to say that they are, um, horrible people or anything like that, but there's a sense of activeness that comes with being in,
in your community that they were not in a lot of ways, I would say. And, um, um, you know, just immediately, like my, my sisters, my sister's like, okay, first of all, if you ever need living, living, like, living space, and you need to get out of your home, like, just come. I'll give you a car, uh, couch,
half a bed floor, whatever you need, you can stay as long as you want. Um, and this is someone who's, you know, had her struggles with employment and just same things as most of us in this world, but there's, there's no question about it. And she would still be supportive of me and, um, allow me to be myself. I would not have to treat myself. Um, then my, my sister lives in Las Vegas is already immediately, like, you know, soon as you graduate, come down, stay with us, stay here,
get yourself off the ground, do whatever you need. We're here to support you. Um, of course we want to see you and have me around. Um, the distance is far. So it just, in 60 years, um, it's, it's really been the most healing thing. And I spent a lot of time as a child, like literally praying. Like, I would just get to the end of my bed. I would open my blinds, the starts. I'm, I don't know if this is doing anything, and I'm not very religious, but I'm gonna give a go.
This is the thing that I'm want most of my life. You know, at that time I didn't even know if I had any siblings. I'm like, everyone could be dead. There could be no one left, but I'm just gonna pray anyway, sidebar. But I think it's special that, um, I met them through ancestry.com. I'm just going to search for my own d n a, um, uh, countries and things of that nature. And, you know, contacted by Cousins Ancestry, you see a lot of, um, you know, a long list of,
oh, this could be a cousin, this woman, whatever. Yeah. And so this specific woman was like, no, I'm gonna talk to you . And you know, my last name, um, my father's last name was not in my profile. So I'm like, out of all the people on hers, I mean, how does she know? I think she might've actually just been reaching out to everyone. But, uh, very quickly she was like, you know, your father and me are first cousins, his mom and my mom, our sisters that your father is my cousin. We,
we grew up together. And I was like, whoa, okay, well look at that . Uh, you know, and it, it was hard because, you know, when I, at, so my mom told me about my, my parents' situation and the age specifically, and all of this when I was about 14, um, which opened up a real wound of like,
time, you know? And so that's another thing. Um, and I, I learned about this term called Queer Time, which in, in queer studies is kind of talking about with the AIDS epidemic and how it puts an entire population of people in this place of, I need to live my life right now because of I'm not gonna have it very soon.
And so, um, I think that that sort of did, did the same kind lip, same kind of fire within me of like, I went crazy enough to researching everything about aids, aids treatment, medical neglect, and what, what are the odds if you've got, if you're poor, if you're on the streets, if you're on drugs, it's been 20 years of doing, living this, this way. Like, what are the chances that these people would still be alive?
And I got very committed to the journey of like, putting my name in Facebook and putting it in different orders and things of that, putting in goals, just seeing if anything pops up. Um, got nothing , but my, my, my late teenage years into going into college were heavily, um, focused on how can I get to meet them as soon as possible. But I knew that, I didn't know how that would make that work. I mean, technically,
I'm gonna close adoption by law, they're protected from me as well. Um, and they're allowed to, you know, hold that protection if they wanted, if they were still around. And so my senior year, my birth mother passed, um, in February. Um, and then I turned 18 in, in June. Um, and then my, my birth father passed when I was 10 though. And then what about a year later, I was able to start connecting with my birth siblings from Ancestry.
But I remember at 18, I asked my mom again, said, okay, can you try? And she was like, no, you need to just focus on, on school. You're not ready. You know, this is gonna be a distraction for you. This is gonna take you off your path. You know? Um, it definitely Brooks, you know, it, that's just another complex trauma on top of within our relationship, um, there. But there's just this sort of like, need to sort of protect me from harsh realities, which was like,
not really for my protection, it was mostly for hers. Um, and so it's been hard being reconnected with my birth students, with our relationship because there's this like inability to sort of do much with, with the information. I say, Hey, I've met so and so, or I want to, after a year or two of knowing them, I'm like, oh, it's her birthday, or she invited me to do this, or, you know, um, my niece and nephew back. And you know, like, we can't have a conversation about it.
My mom emotionally shuts down anytime we try to really talk much about my birth siblings, um, or my birth family. And so it's like the best thing that's ever happened to me, one of the best things that ever happened to me. And I can barely share it with her. And so that's hard as well. And so I know that there is this, um, the reality that the narrative she keeps trying to sell me on from childhood, it's, it's not substantive.
I hope y'all find your way back to each other, but you may not in this lifetime. And you know, you have to, for, it has to be for you. You know what I mean? That's, that's, that's the thing. It has to be for you because the truth of the matter is we are all alone. And it's sad to say that. And I think a lot of people are like, no, I've got plenty of people. But do, do you. . Yeah. None of us really do that thing. And we come into the world alone.
We leave the world alone. Yeah. And I think sometimes in life, there are moments we give so much of ourselves up to another, the dominion of ourselves, our mind, our heart, our soul. Yeah. All our bodies, whether we wanted to or not. Yeah. And it's, it's, it's weird.
It's to be a whole person on this planet is probably close to insurmountable because we spend our whole life digging at little pieces of ourselves and handing them off, or we, or people have spoons and they're carving at our very nature. Mm-hmm. . I love that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, uh, uh, it is, I may I read another little section. I want you to read one of your comments here. I'm gonna read another section. Um, I, this one really hit me too. Some say the mark between my eyes,
the only one I was born with. But what about these new marks, moles, random scars, I wonder, stare them down, run my fingers over them. Maybe they aren't beauty marks, but in fact, entrance sites from others, demons, low frequency spirits, traveling trauma. Fuck. So good. It's so good. And when I read that, I was like, oh my God, I feel that so much. I feel it so much. And it's so beautifully and tragically said, entrance sites from others demons.
But that's that thing of little carvings, little by little. Yes. Oh, yes. That's a great connection. You know? Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And I think, you know, that's the one thing I love about poetry is that I could be so literal and, uh, metaphorical and it's both the same. Um, pain as pain, um, vi violations, violation, um, the sort of, um, relinquishing your part of yourself, whether it's like you said, something you wanna do or not. Um,
there is this sort of carving of ourselves over time. Um, and I think that it's, you know, it's even interesting, um, as we sort of, um, the more that I understand about the universe, at least from a scientific point of view, I've been watching a lot of stuff. I need to just sort of understand space and things. But, um, I, you know, there's, yeah, we come in this world, uh, alone, and we,
and we leave alone. Um, but I think that there's the, the, the part of life where we actually get to have this very beautiful, um, unparalleled experience that as just matters, just atoms in the universe. It's really, um, a blessing that you, here were made this way, you know, at this time to spend it with these people on this earth.
We get the opportunity to be in community with each other, um, to experience something other than, um, many atoms and, and, and, and time and space, and have such complex language that, um, is, uh, not able to be disconnected from, um, emotions. And that's even down to dance and music, other types of language. I feel like, um, our human experience is so, um, it is just the beauty of the soul and the body. We have what the human experience and the spiritual experience as well.
Even when we're alone, we're all having a very spiritual experience, albeit painful or, um, and liberating and sort of like nirvana or not. Um, there's a connectivity that we all get to, to,
to be aware of or to accept about that. And even on the flip side, on the beautiful side, um, you know, when you have these traumatic experiences in some ways, you think, or you, you're in a period of your grieving or a period of your mourning of your past self and a new self after this trauma where you're sitting and you're like, how long do I have to be connected to this person that I share this experience with? You know, with something that my friends and I talk about a lot with their trauma,
particularly with sexual trauma. It's like, how can I settle this, this connection between me and the person that abused me, or you know, me and the person that betrayed me. And I appreciate that this poem, um, for the opportunity to sort of focus on, um, you know, all parties involved in this experience as well. And talk about like, you know, like with my mom's relationship, uh, or relationship, my mom,
you know, she, to be sort of a single mom raising me. So I have no father, my mother is, um, single or you know, hasn't, um, had a relationship mostly, mostly, um, my life. I think she was in a relationship with a man when I was about, until I was about two or three. And then he decided to go back to his wife supposed to be separated and getting a divorce from, but he changed his mind. And so I think sidebar of, there's some heartbreak there from my mom that has something that she wasn't
able to let go of. Um, and I also wonder, um, a bit about like, um, my mom's mom and like hoarding and consent, compulsive keeping compulsive shopping and things of that nature. So there's this like need to like control reality, um, or control the past, control the future. And, um, but anyway, so my mom is raising me. I'm in going to school, and we, she works late. Um, we live far like I'm going to school. This is, so in this story, this,
the context is that I'm at Beacon, which is the school in the waterfront. Um, and towards the end of it, we moved all the way back to East Oakland to hundred fifth. So it's a far distance. And so I needed, we needed help with like, um, someone to look after me after school. And so, um, we, she would just go and seek out parents that she felt like she would be comfortable with me being with, even if we didn't have much of a friendship as like kids that go to school
together. But, you know, that's, that's not necessarily a normal. Um, but I think with this scenario, not to explain the poem, but you know, there was this sort of need to override like unfavorable experiences for the sake of, well, we just need child placement. So you kind of need to figure things out.
And that was a good reoccurring theme in my life where if I was spending a lot of time with friends because I didn't have anyone else to stay with at the time, something would happen and I would open up to her, open up to her about it, and kind of be like, I don't know what you want me to do. You just need to be somewhere with someone. And, um, which was, um,
a let down. And a lot of times she would make friends with the families, and I would have these sort of, we're friendly because you're nice and I'm nice, and I, I was raised to sort of respect your space and be thankful that someone welcomed me into you, welcomed me into your home. So I would always come with that sort of energy. But as soon as I felt disrespected, um, things that I think would be disrespectful to my mom, she would like not
handle in a way that protected me or her in my opinion. You know, I had this experience where I was with this girl. We spent afternoons together, um, into the evening, and I don't a hundred percent know what was going on with her, but she's also an adopted child as well. And so she had her own experiences at play here,
and she was being raised by a white family. So I can imagine there might be, uh, a lot of missing of details as well, possibly in her needs and her requirements for, you know, emotional support even with this, this book about trauma and avoid attachment, I think is really interesting. My mom does the same things of, you know, when you're, when you have an experience, right? Because people say, you know, you go through life and you experience life in your body and your mind makes
sense of it, right? Like, let's, in this sort of move to get people to be in their bodies again. So, so many of us live in a dissociated state. Um, and so just in general, I spent most of my time, you know, that's another com, you know, aspect of being born in the state of survival, or you already learn how to sort of leave your own body. And so, um, it was easy for me to sort of block out stimuli that changed the narrative of my reality that wasn't ready to to handle,
but that's kind of something you hope your parents can guide you with. But I, um, you know, my mom spent a lot of time my childhood kind telling people like, no, things were great. Things were great. She was, she loves me, we're, we have a happy, loving family. There's no problems. We have no problems, everything's fine. And that's how she likes to remember it. Um, and so in some way, I, I processed this experience starting around four, uh,
since gonna be one of my first experiences where I have a conscious memory. And, um, this, this went on for a while, like maybe six months to a year I had this experiences with this girl. We spent so much of our free time being sexual with each other in like very advanced ways when, you know, she, the girl already, she, you know, she was doing a lot of role play and kind of acting out things that she's seen
or had acted out on her. And so it was, it was very advanced and it wasn't like this kind of cute curiosity of like before. And, but I mean, human beings are sexual beings. We have that, um, start very early anyway, but it was this sort of shame that came over me of like, my mother found out how much we are doing it, it would be disgraceful. And on top of that, I'm going to this, I'm in this home with a child who has white parents.
I could be seen as someone of, uh, enabling, empowering, like quote unquote inappropriate behavior. And so there was this fear that came over me for a long time of this dread of like, come to her house having to continue being her friend, not feeling like I could say anything about, um, this because it would not, like my mother would only hear my participation, you know? Um, and, um, but I definitely think that that contributed to my intimacy problems probably
around like five and six, I started laying to bed again. I couldn't, like, there was this added level of like, rejecting my mother, just don't touch me. I can't sleep in the dark anymore. I can't like being like, you know, undercovers, um, uh, you know, feelings of entrapment. So, um, this is part of what sent me to therapy at six. But by that point I had kind of like, you know,
gotten rid of the memory or suppressants so deep. My therapist was like, well, it's gonna be a while before we know what's, what's up with your child. So good luck, . We, we really didn't get much from the, from the therapy.
Um, even with my mental health, there's this sort of recurring thing in my life where like, yes, there is trauma, and yes, there's this, but I thoroughly believe that, uh, with being able to speak about the things that you've been through, there's, I mean, I definitely, you know, there's, I was reading this conversation online about, um, how many parents work so hard to get their children, you know, uh, diagnosed with, uh, different kinds of disorders and things of that nature,
as long as it proves that the parent is not at fault for some kind of neglect. Right? I definitely think that, uh, I think that sums it up, , unfortunately. So there's, there's this overhaul in my head to sort of like, I've gotta get my stuff out of my head and on page and then transmute that back into my body where I've now reintegrated my experiences as not being something that's third party or separated from me, or I have to leave my body and go look at myself to just see what it was or
whatever. Um, there's this desire to reintegrate my experiences and not, um, have all of this, this separation and dissociation. But, but yeah, there I spent a long time of my, my, my later years, um, being like, no, no. Like, I, I wanted that and I, I enjoyed it. And it's, this is no, I, I was just, I was just one of those fast children. I'm just a fast child. Like I, I, I just was, I was on top of it. I was into it so young, like, yay me or whatever, but I always knew deep down,
like that's not really what was going on. And it was a lot more, um, um, you know, painful and overwhelming and, um, you know, I had to be this child that doesn't make mistakes. And so, you know, making this mistake, her mother found out, ended the friendship like, you have to go. And then I got home, my mom's like, um, you're disgusting . Like, you're nasty. You're disgusting. I dunno why you would do that. Um, you know, she just had a lot of things and I,
I barely remember that. I remember a lot of words being, being hurled hurled at me. She didn't ask me once how we ended up in this situation or anything. Um, how I really felt about it. Um, and that definitely seeped into our relationship as well. And there's a theme, um, throughout where I do anything that doesn't align with her, her reality. And I'm like, it's a character flaw within me, which is really overwhelming. versus it being like an opportunity to just grow and learn and,
you know, uh, things of that nature. There's this, um. You know, or to even protect you from it. , would you like to read one of your poems? Sure. Do you have a, a vibe or a. I mean, I, I've highlighted and, and I just, it's real good.
the whole thing, so freaking good. And it's one of, it's funny 'cause in the beginning, you know, there's a comment about read it in any direction, in any way, and, you know, however you feel moved and yeah, I mean, as I'm reading it, I, I have mother wounds for sure as I read it, or I just have life wounds. Like every one of us, I'm, I find myself rereading and, and replaying it and then feeling it where it is in my body that I feel the words. Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. Uh, it's very powerful.
It's, um, it's very, very powerful. But yeah, please. Um, I'll read, um, stack of Papers. Are you okay with that? And just to, to let everyone know again, it's called Power of Our Wombs, W O M B Ss. Stack of Papers. That was really one of my favorite ones to write. I, I actually, so I wanna say it was either fall 2021 or like, like December or maybe January, 2022, right before, before I turned the book into Nomadic Press Publishing to have them read it and,
you know, let me know if they would accept it. And, um, I had, I had gone to a virtual, like shout out to the pandemic, but I went to a virtual, like wound healing, um, workshop class with, with a doula from Oakland. And with, um, I was like, I'm just gonna give this a shot. I found so many, um, things on Eventbrite of like, related to wound healing.
And I wanted to just see like in community talking about anything related to these topics, like what might come from it and my writing and all of that. And so, um, she gave us a prompt, quite literally. And I just, I, I'm always loved the way that things just kind of come outta my head. You know, people ask me that a lot are like, how did you come from this prompt? And then it turned into this whole thing. And I'm like, I don't know.
I'm still trying to figure that out myself. But, um, it's a pretty amazing process. So just even the process of my writing is like one of my favorite things. Um, and just a shout out, like, I love that the book was able to take, um, like graphics. So one of my favorite things is the womb word dump, which I actually made on, uh, Canva or something. Um, so I give you the words and then I give you, um,
background and then I give you the poem. And I just love that. Um, but Juju, the doula hosted me in some other black women in her heel, the womb virtual poetry class, because we're two years isn't changed until a world pandemic. It was 6:00 PM on a Friday night. There were several of us from the Bay Area because Juju, the doula is from Oakland. And we're tuned in on time as she asked of us some even matriculated in as far as Georgia, Kentucky and Virginia.
We started the wo we started with a womb word dump. And she posed us these two questions. What are your wounds? Like? If you could say it was an object, what would it be? To which I say stack of papers. Stack of papers. My womb is a stack of papers from the state. I only know my myself in the words I read on these pages, printed and published in 2003 when the social worker ceased visits last report saying I hit the basics. She no longer needed to think of me till as early as 1998.
Like how one is conditioned to learn oneself early on in report cards based on prison records. The things white people say or say or were saying about you, my understanding literally jumped up and walked right off the pay. I envy people who can raise their hands in class because their hands deserve to be up. I worry, I don't speak. I look like I don't deserve a seat. Pat themselves on the back and feel surrounded.
Seems like the things my hands are best at is gripping my hip bones, needing nap of my spine and then diagnosing my wound. Pain is having traveled from my pelvis to my lower back, leaving a permanent ache. People have been telling me long as I can remember, I got the arch of a young mom, like I've been carrying myself since birth.
Once we tested positive, and they called my mother in fifth, sent me on my lonesome way away from source, from mother, from wo mama and mama's womb, from her bosoms, from her, her inner elbow, where my head meant to lay from my birth name. I'm always searching for my other homes, always thinking I'm missing someone.
Every so often I crack open my papers to jog my memory, to hear my mother's voice, to recognize the sound of my cries, my loneliness, recognize my mother's eyes peeking back at me from between the lines. I wonder if I apologize for her indiscretions, will they reveal the rest of myself to me.
But I also cursed her father for breaking lines. His son, his touch sent her to the streets, late teens trying to snatch her kneeing back, bending her spine, pushing her hips out and back, hoping sex by way of the block might ground her into a happy home. And I must also curse the state for pretending like they don't know. Crack was her way of holding on a gamble. Resilience to which car she pulls first, freedom or death.
And black girl call home Jasmine man wrote mortality and magic occupied the same space, and she pulled death. I sometimes wish I hadn't, we hadn't cremated my mother so I could visit her in the yard so we could have our own conversations by cloak of privacy. But she's amongst her scoring memories, regrets, and stakes in my sister's home. At the behest of all of those ears, they feel mostly judgment for her. Understandably so.
My womb has a moderately thick file of papers on her from clinics tested positive for cocaine, tested twice, six months apart. H i v morbid cramps, collapsed in shower, low blood pressure needs birth control, never used too scared and even thicker. File post assault, police ride and leave offering nothing after another. Assault needs pregnancy tests, needs a U T i tests and sleeping pills. My womb with every interaction and non-interaction becomes more of a mystery to
me. I guess she's love, I've discovered her to be potent power. She got me wet, a fear hour to ease the pain. And I'm grateful. The most feminine part of me must have some hair. The masculine in me wants to keep it long. If my body could rise up and out like dough to make space for all this trauma, then I can believe my womb and my girl will in fact, one day be able to stretch wide again. Welcome, love, endure the trauma of birth, A beauty that will not be denied. This is a story that matters.
That's so powerful, that's exceptional. Thank you. Thank you for sharing. That's so beautiful and so tragic. And it's, which is as human as it gets. Yeah. You know, there's a, there's another one in Mama's Boy that, that you have here that, um, it's funny. I I it's a, it's again beautiful and, and horrible and in the best way, obviously.
You know what I mean by that as a word person. Um, what I, what struck me in that poem was the idea that the abuser, the male abuser who both is desperately trying to get back to the womb all the while ripping it to shreds. Hmm mm-hmm. . Yes. Yes. You know, and it's interesting because, um, so my, my sophomore year, oh, Riverside, I, I went to uc, Riverside, and, um, you know, I, this whole, that whole, that whole time, two years there,
I like the, the Greek life on that campus was insane. Look, most Greek life, um, in most campuses. Um, but there it was frustrating to go somewhere like, especially after, right? Like being a part of B Ss U at Odo, having Mr. Green, like that's a very, um, special community that we even most bsu, um, things of that nature don't have.
And so I got to Riverside and was like super amped up. I just, you know, just really enjoyed my senior year being able to be involved with P S U and act, you know, uh, just really coming to love Mr. Green. And then I got to Riverside and was like, okay, I at least have the, the, the wherewithal to find who is best for me.
I can't expect everyone here to be good for me, but I can, I've now got better tools after high school to be able to like navigate B S C and figure out who I want to, um, who can I trust and who can I collaborate with and things of that nature. And so it was very, um, it's very much a let down to sort of see how unchecked Greek life on campus and
the black community was. So, you know, I would definitely define my first year as being, um, heavily just a lot of stalking and a lot of harassment, um, from these different, um, frats. And it was just in similar way of like, you, you go to these black events where it's like black excellence, and this is like 20 17, 20 18.
So it's like we're the height of black excellence in this whole concept. And, uh, they're, you know, these are the guys that are like president of B S C and their student employees, and they have these positions of power in B S C as well as being in these frats and holding all these parties and all this. And so it's like after 7:00 PM there are these demons. And then during the daytime, there's supposed to be people that are leading you.
And you go into B S C, which is an incredibly small space on campus, and you can look around the room and be like, okay, you're an abuser. You beat your girlfriend, you raped so-and-so, you did this. My first, my first year there was like a, um, more of a molestation sort of sexual assault experience that I had with one of these guys. And I went into the clinic and I asked for, um, just sleeping pills. And I was like,
I'm not here to make a report or anything like that. I just want to, like, th two, maybe about three weeks later, I'm just seeing that I can't sleep and I need some sort of assistance with bed. And she'd like, stop. No, I'm gonna call the police. They're gonna come. You have to tell them now. It's not, it's not an option. I, I don't care. And I was like, okay. So then, um, that's not really what I wanted, but I was like, it's something to do now.
And I guess I didn't fully understand how, like, it doesn't matter the moment you even put the word out there, they just gotta call the people. So I'm telling this guy, this is a black man, he's with, um, Riverside Police over U C P D, I think. And he's like, but as soon as I, I mentioned one guy and he's like, oh, I know all of them. I know them all.
I know them all by first name. Don't even worry about it. I know them all. Um, they all have at least six or seven allegations against them individually. And he like, this guy, that guy, this guy named 'em all by first name. And I was like, yeah, uh, I was here to talk about one guy, but I've had issues with all of them, but you know, I'm glad you know about them, you know, that's great. And I was like, so what? He was like, well, there's no evidence,
there's no witnesses. And, um, this wasn't quite a while ago, so, you know, the most I can do is go down there and give them good talking to, I was like a good talking to you think that's going to help. Like, these guys have positions of power. It's being enabled from within the organization. Like, okay,
. And then my, in my second year, I ended up dating these two guys, and the first guy, which is partly talked about mom's boy, he, um, after the assault, he, uh, you know, he, he literally ran, like, ran to my bathroom, starts trying to like, throw up actually. Um, and then he gets back in, uh, the, the bed essentially, and he we're talk, or he's talking to me. I'm not really saying much,
but he's just telling me. But, you know, I was, I was molested as a kid and, you know, I, I assaulted someone when I was in high school and I went to found God, and I tried to, tried to fix this out of me, and I tried to cure myself. And I, I, I, you know, it kind of turned into the situation of now we're, we're back focusing on you again and like, what's happened to you? And that's, those, those things are true, and that's very sad to hear. Um, but I like this, this isn't really about you now.
I've now been victimized by you as well, and this is actually intimate partner situation. It's a guy that I'm truly am dating. We are boyfriend and girlfriend. And so, um, you know, there's like you said, there's this like, you know, he's like, I, I, I never really meant to hurt you though. You're definitely one of the best people I've ever been with, right?
And they still need you and this. And then when I didn't go for that, he starts turning it into the, well, well, well, you owed me and you know, I'm, I'm your boyfriend so you can't just deny me of my right to sex and all this stuff. Um, and so there's this like, I swear, I love you. I swear I love you, um, and, and I love women. And then you abuse me and then you blame me for it. And you're just really, um,
unhealed really. Um, there's a boy in there that is like freaking out and doesn't know what to do that didn't learn anything about consent, but also was molested as a child as well. And so, uh, there's this actually very negative, you know, uh, connection and experience with, with consent. And it was hard because, you know, a me Meg, Megan Stallion and all these kind of situations in the public, but with many women and many black women,
there's this desire to protect from the police. You know, that was another thing when, when she brought the police in, it wasn't just that, it was like, oh, I've gotta government count this to police officers don't already have a good reputation in this country. But on top of it, I was like, well, I didn't say I was ready to like, give his name out and this is a young black man, I'm just not sure what I wanna do yet. I just wanna know that I wanna go sleep.
I go sleep and do my homework. That's all I really want at the moment. Um, but, you know, with the situation, um, you know, I was, I was this, now I'm in this position of like, what do I do? You know, his father, uh, went to jail for multiple murders. Um, his mother was in jail for gang banging most of his life, his brother's serving life in prison for murder. Um, you know, there's like, I'm like, feel responsible to protect him from ending up in the same kind of cycle.
And, um, but there's this lack of support for me, uh, at the same time. And then the second guy that's also mentioned in name was boy, he, um, you know, this is someone I had a slightly, nah, I wouldn't call it that, but, you know, the one thing was like, he had a lot of trauma himself with like the police and being arrested. I mean, I think he even arrested like in the double digits by the time he was like 18, just from stop and Frisking growing up in South Central LA in Crenshaw.
Like kids are just, you know what I mean, picked off and targeted even when you're not doing anything. And so, you know, growing up while black growing up while black, yeah. , you know, , there was this like consistent, like a violation and just sort of, um, you know, um, I was very much like a fix. There was this need to like constantly be separated from like responsibility and just like, anytime any sort of feeling that came over him that he didn't wanna have.
And granted, I was very young, so it isn't an older woman myself. Now, I totally approached dating and relationships and, and, you know, connection very differently. But at the time I was like, okay, wow. Like there's time he feels anything good or bad, like it's time to take my clothes off . You know, like the, the, the addiction was extreme. It was just, it was difficult. You know, he wanted me to have so much compassion and understanding for that and how
overwhelming and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And, you know, my grandma died and all of that. You know how sometimes young men try to find all these reasons why their behaviors okay when it's, that's still not okay. Um, but then it was like, you know, we would be out and he would be afraid of something. We want the police or like, okay, so who's over there or whatever, you gotta get outta here, whatever. And I was like, like it would,
it would be long. And I know that it is trauma, but there was like, it was like, nah, like, like I was an enemy all of a sudden just because I was trying to like, I was like, you still have to calm down. Like you're still, you're just going to bring more attention by like opening the car. Like it was like his trauma was like not well managed at all, um, as far as like trauma responses go. And it's like you can have trauma responses,
but they can put you in more danger as well. So it is a responsibility to, um, work on that. But ultimately when you're in a relationship where you're spending time with someone, as much as we were spending time in this, more of a situationship, but I was like, um, this is something that obviously you need support with, but I'm like, uh, it's hard for me to support you when I don't receive the same support.
I expend so much of my energy taking care of you and like you doing this thing where it's like you're crawling back into my womb. Like you literally need a mommy figure, um, out of me. And then there's, um, very just very little compassionate to take care of yourself for the sake of the people, for you and the people in your life. Yeah. And you don't need to be someone's proxy for pain. It's, that's not fair either. It is tricky because though, hurt people hurt people, right? We all know that.
But there's also choices to be made. You get to choose how you take that pain and what you do with it. My friends and I, we, my black female friends and I, we talk a lot about like, um, you know, you know, I look at a lot of my friends that have black brothers and it's, uh, nah, I like, I'm, you know, it's, it's hard to see so many of my young black women who's like their main enemies. There's like their fathers and their, and their brothers, and these people are consistently their downfall,
like setting them up to be in very dangerous situations. Um, whether it's like intentional or just like, you know, I have a friend that's like, a lot of times I wake up, my brothers are coming in of the house at like 4:00 AM 'cause they're smoking, they're just coming back from so-and-so, and they're leaving the door unlocked. Um, and people can just come in and out of our home. Um, and there's just this like, um,
obliviousness to the needs of women in their life. Um, and it's, again, it's like, you know, catch up sometimes just trying, well, you know, but they can do this and they do that and, you know, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, yeah. But they're also relying on you to carry the family emotionally, financially,
physically, like you're doing everything. Um, and they get to lay around in their depression, not do anything, get to lay around in their post-traumatic stress, um, and not take care of themselves and put everyone else in, uh, compromising positions. And so it's, it's, and it's not, it's, it's less of, um, trying to get out of my, my place of anger, my place of rage, and feeling betrayed by black men.
And that's like a tra gen generational take on for black women, you know, from the beginning, especially, um, after reconstruction and civil rights and stuff, or you know, Jim Crow era where black men we're finding ways to have more privilege and more, um, going out in the world and we were still being fairly, you know, neglecting or like kept within the home and, and then suffering a lot of abuse there. Um, and like not real, any real systematic community-wide like, acknowledgement of that.
And I know that we're moving into this air now of young men, they're like, well, y'all abuse us and y'all are toxic as well too. And it's like, okay, but you've got an entire society that is, you know, protecting the needs and wants of men even when it at the cost of everyone else. And so it's, it's very, um, it's, it's, that's, that's, that's very a avoidant to view. It's very privileged of waiting of you to be able to think that we can just move
on after. I mean, black liberation is gonna take everyone's input and everyone's, you know, pulling their weight. And so to not acknowledge the, the impact of slavery on black women, um, and everything after that
. Um, so I, and I know that's not, you know, when we have these people experiences, it can be make, it can make it hard to pull things apart and, um, separate, you know, uh, grief and rage and anger and have sort of like logical kind of dip, dipping your toes into sort of logical, um, you know, processes of, uh, restoration. Um, because we're maybe a little bit too, um, swallowed by anger and by grief.
But nonetheless, I think just writing the poems themselves is an opportunity to sort of, you know, I shared that Mama's boy at a, um, poetry reading competition is like prize money involved. And I, I know I would say that the, the experience was, um, it was interesting, you know, you're like, okay, you know, it was a raffle sort of situation. I couldn't decide who, like, it wasn't up to me who I was behind, like on the proceeding end of and who I was going, who would be after me.
So it was like we had this massive concert thing. These people brought their instrument song singing and killing it, and then I went on, like, I read it, mama's Boy, and there were a lot of men in the audience. And so it had an interesting reaction in moment. Um, and I think people, like you said, they could see the power of my words and my skill there, but it was, um, a bit much to hear the content. That's for a lot of reasons.
Like even the, the book I start with the content warning because a lot of times, especially, you know, you, you hear these kind of poems and you don't even realize that this is something you've been through. Um, so, um, I, I really look forward to the second version of the book.
There's an opportunity to expand the thoughts that are already in the one that exists as is and to add more, um, into the narrative mural and early separation is, um, needs way more, uh, uh, research and way more, um, programs of support around is not something to be taken lightly at all. Uh, tell people how they might find you in the book and keep, keep up with your progress.
For now, you can find me on Instagram at keani j, that's k e n a n three i iii j, lowercase J or J. Um, so I'm on Instagram. I have a link in my bio that will take you to Link Tree. It has a listing for the book on the distributor's website, SPD books.org, small press distribution. Um, and also on Amazon, you can just open Amazon normally type in Jessica Ton or Power of our wos and it'll come up. Um, it might take an extra day or two,
they'll just be having it mailed from the distributor for you. But, um, it's definitely findable on Amazon. And then, um, on my Instagram page, I'll make announcements about poetry readings. Um, I'll make announcements about virtual readings. Um, if you're outta state, I'm currently located in California, in the Bay Area, so if you're local, do keep up with me, your on Instagram, and you know, come find me out in the world reading and doing things like that.
The second edition of the book comes out, um, it'll be out on Amazon though. I won't have a publisher for this, um, outside of Amazon. My website will be under the, um, the name j hairston writes.com. I'll put links for everything on Hey, human Podcast too. And please keep me updated on everything. I think you're an incredible talent and just really, your poetry spoke to me so deeply, uh, uh, generationally it spoke to me. Absolutely.
So I really appreciate your time and your honesty and openness, and thank you. Thank you for listening everybody. Bye. Bye. Great review and subscribe to, Hey, human Podcast on iTunes or wherever you get your podcast. Thanks. Bye. .