537. The Sikh Leader Taking Down The Grooming Gangs - Mohan Singh

They're not gangs where friends have got together and stuff like that. These people would sit in family environments together knowing what they're doing together outside as well. They thought these girls were easy pickings and easy prey and then they've gone for them. The wives know. I believe. How prevalent are the Muslim women gangs? It's quite quite scary. So how come you're hurting these children? We had a very high profile case and she was a seat girl.

This girl at 15 was horrendously tortured. We were able to get six convictions there. There was this 17-year-old girl and they're taking her. Do you know what? Till this date, I don't even know if the girl exists or not. What happens when you try to contact a parent? Nothing. Dead. Why is Tony Robinson such a fan of yours? We had a girl who was sexually assaulted in his hometown in Luton. I don't know who invited him in.

how he was there you probably gotta go and ask him why he was so impressed 61% of regular Heretics viewers haven't subscribed yet. Can I ask you a favour?

If you love these fearless conversations, hit subscribe now because it's free, takes two seconds and powers our mission. Mohan Singh, welcome to the show. Thank you very much for having me. It's a pleasure. So you're a Sikh leader. Tell me briefly what does that mean? Well, I was president of a Sikh Gurdwara place of worship as a Gurdwara and that sort of represented about 5,000 Sikhs in the South Birmingham area.

and then was made general secretary of 12 different Gurdwaras so that sort of broadened the sort of scope that I was dealing with and then Through the Seek Awareness Society, we just... connected to Sikhs around the world, to be honest. So I wouldn't class myself as a leader, only an advisor, say. Okay, I understand that. And how many Sikhs are held up as an example?

really good integration in the United Kingdom. Is that fair to say? And how many are there in the UK? I would say legally about sort of 600,000. Probably, yeah, about 600,000 according to the last census. And we have been sort of coming in since the early 60s. But we do have a Sikh Gurdwar which was built in 1908 in Shepherd's Bush and it still exists. Wow. So one of the oldest Gurdwaras in Europe. Is that a kind of temple?

Yeah, the Gurdwar is, as you could call it, a temple or a church. It's a place of worship. And what is it about Sikhs that has made them adapt quite well to the UK?

I think we We're taught to look at the common good, the common values wherever you go. So you connect yourself better. Now, I always say that 95% of all humanity and all religions have a common denominator and we work on that. and leave the 5% that sort of disrupts you. So when you're working with people, you find common ground, you find shared values. and work on that and life is beautiful.

I first heard your name mentioned by Tommy Robinson. I was out interviewing him in Benidon before his recent arrest and he spoke glowingly about you. and I think that was important because a lot of people consider those who are concerned about things like the grooming gangs. I know we're supposed to just say the R word now to show what it actually is, but YouTube doesn't like it, so I try to sort of moderate that a little bit. But I understand totally that argument.

that this is not about sort of a racism aspect or we're against anybody who's from Asian descent or anything like that. It is really something specific to Islam. Why is Tommy Robinson such a fan of yours? I think as far back as I can remember the first time I sort of met him, we had a girl who was sexually assaulted in his hometown in Luton. We got called out by the community to address the problem because the perpetrator was only charged on common assault.

when it was a lot lot worse than that. So we spoke at the local temple. I don't know who invited him in or how he was there but he saw us sort of talking to about 500 Sikhs and then we sort of walked over to the police station. and there was a protest which he was there at the protest And then he's been to maybe a couple of programs that we've done in Hindu temples and stuff like that and ours is all about sort of educating people, raising awareness on the taboo issues.

regarding sexual grooming, the red flags and it's about prevention is better than the cure. and Probably got to go and ask him why he was so impressed but I'm just doing what I'm doing and that's just about educating and raising awareness with him. the Sikh community and the Hindu community and whoever calls us so We have been raising since 1997. We've been raising awareness on these crimes when they came to light to us.

And I think it was somewhere around about 2012, I think, that he came across us in the Luton Temple. As much of your role then about, as you say, spreading awareness? about what seems to be an issue with Islamic grooming gangs.

Is that also, is that something that's been imported from South Asia? Because I've heard that that was something that people in Sikh and Hindu communities have been aware of in India as well and Pakistan and Bangladesh. Well, we were aware even, I mean, I've grown up in this country. two years old, two and a half years old when I come to this country so We were hearing stories in the 80s, early 80s.

but not really sort of taking any notice of what was going on. And then as you get involved in the community, I think it was 1993, I joined the local, the Gordwara became the president, the youngest president in the UK as a Sikh.

and then obviously the more you're in the community the more you're gonna you're gonna hear things and people will come and talk to you and i i had the the sort of gift of speaking in the Punjabi language where I could communicate with the elders in the community but I was also talk to the youth and going to sort of schools, sex form schools to talk about Sikh in general, Sikh faith, colleges, universities.

we had a good connection and through that we were hearing a lot of stories and events and certain people coming up with their accounts of what happened to them. And then because we had access to other Gurdwaras and the community at large, we're feeling that nobody's really talking about these issues.

I didn't pick it up in the papers or anything like that so nobody was talking about it so we thought why don't we create a society that just raises awareness on these issues and then like I said prevention is better than the cure if people know what to look out for they will be able to protect themselves and it started in a very local, localized way.

And it was very tough for us as well to go into places of worship like the Gurdwaras to talk about taboo issues which you could sort of understand that it's a place to worship and that's just about worshipping and not talking about taboo issues and we were able to sort of with

eyebrows raised we were able to sort of get through that and then the wider Gordwaras the West Midlands, UK and it was in 2013 We got contacted by the BBC purely because I think there was a cameraman who worked with the Pararama crew.

His niece was in a lot of trouble and we were able to help his niece. And he was so shocked with what had happened. also the way we were able to sort of handle the situation within three days and he says this should be brought out to the wider the wider audience and we started talking to the BBC filming had started and we were able to sort of give them live cases which they covered And I think as far back as I can remember 2013 September the 2nd is when it came out.

And we were against Corrie on the other side. That's coronet for any Americans watching. It's coronation. It's coronation. It's a soap opera. Okay. We were able to beat their audience that day. And the documentary itself got a European award as well. what what had happened is that because we had sent certain youngsters for their safekeeping out the country into North America The BBC did fly out to interview them.

victims who are survivors now and so BBC World Service picked it up or something and then that sort of propelled us out to North America Australia New Zealand everywhere so While we were just raising awareness here, it sort of went manic. And according to the BBC, they said that their iPlayer crashed the next day because that was the most searched program. so because of that it just sort of went everywhere and then from small Bunch of people, charity, handling a case here and there.

Wolf, you had a hole.

And people would want to share their stories, what happened to them 10 years ago, what happened to them 15 years ago. And it's not then just about sharing stories, it's about getting the help. I have a motto from victimhood to survivorhood, from survivor to thriver. So that's where we want to take the person when the person comes to us. It might be a victim, but we want to...

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I don't blame the whole Muslim community. That would be very silly of us to do that. But there are a high percentage of Pakistani sexual grooming gangs now like I would like to use and Another word for it, but obviously certain words we can't use These are groups of people these are people known to each another They're not gangs where friends have got together and stuff like that. If you look at the very dynamics of these, these are people known to them. These are family members.

relatives it's quite scary so I wouldn't blame the whole community but there is a high percentage within that

They thought these girls were easy pickings and easy prey and they've gone for them. And it's horrible with some of the crimes that some of the stuff that the girls went through. whether it's their cultural background, whether it's where they've come from, whether they deem that others' children are fair game. That's something they got to really investigate. But we must have some... about why it's so endemic to British Islam or British Pakistani Muslims.

I have, but then again there's some certain words that... I don't think I would be able to really share them because they are sort of deep and but but treating treating young people as objects and below

how they treat animals where are they getting that where are these people getting that I was talking to a father only about four days ago whose daughter's insides have been ripped down completely and she can't have any children.

So what kind of mindset that you have to be so depraved to do something like that and that just doesn't destroy the child it destroys the whole family unit it messes everybody up in the family the mother the father the extended family um and so you're just not sort of destroying a a child you're destroying the whole network, the whole fabric of that network and talking to him and

and crying you know mostly crying still and this is a historical case this is going back probably 10 15 years and um and he was saying that it's all started in a when she went to work in a restaurant and they were so nice and kind and everything like that and the free food and made you feel like you know like a princess more or less So we call it love bombing where you completely

love bombed and you think this is the best thing since sliced bread and you know and this guy who really loves me he's got a hotel I mean he's got a restaurant he's got a business he's got everything so You know, it's all hunky-dory and then drugged and then raped and then raped by other people. And can you imagine the level of abuse that that child went through having her internals all ripped up apart?

And the police and the authorities got that case completely wrong. They didn't even investigate it. And they messed it up big time. Продолжение следует... When you say ripped apart is Internally she's so damaged that she can't have children from the violent way that they have the violent way they abuse Abused or whether she was being abused all the time whether there was

I don't know whether I'm able to say that, whether objects were used or whatever. It was just very violent. Are these the kinds of things that you are dealing with?

Yeah, I mean, we had a very high profile case and... In Leicester in 2013, we had a young... She was a Sikh girl. And I... sort of a Challenged in a way she was she she she had lost a friend of hers from the age of nine, I think. So she never had any sort of any counseling or anything like that. So she was suffering from sort of slight little mental health issues. This girl at 15 was horrendously tortured for about six to eight weeks. I remember just as we normally go out to do talks.

I was in Leicester University doing a talk and he was open to all and the father approached me he says I don't know what's going on with my daughter, but she's just sort of fallen down and cams are involved and everybody's involved

But she's not talking to anyone. And so I remember it was a Tuesday night in early November. And then I went on the Saturday, sat with her for 10, 15 minutes. For some godly reason, you know, unknown to me, she started talking to me. And some of the stuff she was coming out with was just horrendous just to listen to. and so we sort of

Had her followed, had her sort of watched her for over a month, had known where she was going, which house, which flats she was taken to. Like spies. It was more of a company that we used, a private investigation. Wow. Yeah. This is really involved. Yeah. So because what was happening was they would pick her up.

sort of college i'd say about 12 o'clock she would be taken to hotels she would be taken places and then she was she had just turned 16 when I first met she was 15 but she just turned 16 and then by about half past three she would be at the college that she attended so her parents can pick her up. And the parents were none the wiser of what was happening. So in between them, four hours, and so we

Then decided with the family, this is the steps we need. We need to know exactly her movements and everything. We collected the data that was given to us, the videos of her going into flats and stuff like that.

And then we had a meeting with the social services, the sexual grooming team and the police at Leicester. They picked up the case, but then, to my surprise, she was still sexually assaulted, even though they had the case. And then we had to take this young lady out. of that particular area and rehouse her in South London.

and then move her around so that nobody can sort of track where she is and then I think it was somewhere around about January. 14 to 15 where we gave a video evidence to to the police and by January sorry by July I think Three had already pleaded guilty to what they were doing to her. Three didn't plead guilty, so he went to court. After three days evidence, her video evidence, they pleaded guilty as well. So we were able to get six convictions there.

the level of abuse is that it was it was a horrendous and even I think I remember looking at her body one day mentally she was not older she cut herself with a blade in 209 places Can you imagine the body of a child? cut in 209 wherever her hands would reach. She was dead. No, she's alive, but she was just cutting herself and her stomach and her legs and her arms and and I think I've still got pictures of of that and kick it so

It is a journey into hell. And it's a journey even into a deeper hell because even hell is not sort of... portrayed in that kind of light but some of what these girls have gone through is crazy. Is it only girls?

I think there's, I mean, obviously we've had cases where we've had boys come through.

but with the boys it's not sort of gang related it's like if somebody has a somebody's groomed a child it'll be it'll be for that that person's satisfaction or control or power or whatever it's a one-to-one it's not really I haven't come across a case where a boy has been passed on Gangs are controlling them on or not, but you know mainly it's It's girls that And I think it's also a fact that boys find it very hard to sort of

come out and come out as quickly as the females do. I'm sure. Has it created a real conflict between British Sikhs, British Hindus and British Muslims?

I think it is this issue is a very sort of dividing issue. I mean the terminology that the papers have used and the media have used the terminology Asian And Asia is a very, very big continent. Yeah. And I know after we were talking about football. And I remember in the early 70s and as a football fan. and supporting England wherever England went to play in Europe. If they had lost or they didn't play well, there would be some sort of people who would riot or do something silly.

And it would be headlines in the paper, English hooligans, English hooligans. They were never called European hooligans. They were always called English hooligans.

And that's where we've said, why don't the papers or MPs or whoever's in a power position why don't they say you have the data you you you all the police forces have the data the names of the people that the countries that they're from And you can, you know, it'll take you 10 minutes to collect the data and you see the names and why can't you call them for what they are called a spade a spade and that causes a lot of conflict because you know certain people say you're picking on us you're

racism and they'll use words which or abuse you on online or whatever but You know, you're racist In my books, you know, racism was when you supported Hitler or Mussolini or stuff like that, but you're called a racist now when you want to stand up for your own daughter.

yeah well i mean that's crazy and and then you've got you know your right wing or your your right wing supporters no we're not supporting anyone but there's a crime being committed crimes have been committed and this should be looked at um i mean the figures as their own The Coolium Report. when they done the report and I remember when they started the report they wanted to prove this narrative that it's not just Pakistani people doing it

And that was the start of his report. And then at the end, he's saying, well, I couldn't report that. It's 84%. um they came out with them figures so but i mean look there are people who are going to abuse and use you you know only a couple of days ago we're not saying this they're not groomers groomers Sexual abuse can belong to any faith, any culture, any sort of denomination, but we are not just saying, but there is a high, high percentage of one group.

Now if the governments are right and they really want to get down to the bottom of this It's only in the best interest and harmony of the country that people know the truth. and then resources could be put towards that truth rather than just ignoring the fact that it's a problem and yeah but

Yeah. We're not going to say... what the problem is and who's causing it and why it's being caused when they have the resources to just very easily Only a couple of days ago, there was a gang from Bolton. Two days ago, I think they got convicted and they were abusing girls. Okay, these were six white men. in our community. I remember attending that court case up in Leeds. This was the Huddersfield grooming gang. and I was working with three young people from that area.

from 2014 but this came to light in 2018 and there was a Sikh guy and I wanted to go to court and show my disgust But there was also two Punjabi guys, but there was also 20 Pakistanis in the same group. So, we want to call a spade a spade. we were in our disgust and how why and and and I remember even going to his family. To whose family? To the sea guy's family. I remember knocking on their door, having a word with the... Did they let you in?

Yes. They let us in because I'm a community worker. But it wasn't a very good dialogue.

because again it's always no they've got it wrong the girls have just made it up and you know and I think he's serving 30 years and and every case that's been convicted no they've got it wrong these girls are just doing it for the money these girls are doing it for that so you know it's it's a never win situation and and and but I do believe that the authorities have got the resources They've got every case logged on computers.

So they're not going to move any paperwork. They just got to sit in front of a computer and get all these police forces around the country and say, well, hey, let's have a look at your data and let's have a look at your data and let's have a look at your data and there you are. And that's why I feel that the national inquiry has not been done. Oh, my God. And you're saying local inquiries. or five times will do it but you've got to ask and i mean that's so silly and stupid is that

If it's happened in five towns, yeah, yeah, just talk to the five towns, but this is happening across the country, the length and breadth of the country. So why deny a national... Inquiry and once you get the inquiry hey, we might be wrong We might get it wrong But I'm not approved.

Let's get improved either way. Yeah, let's look into it. I find it really revealing that when there was a Sikh person, it's like you took it upon yourself. Like, hey, this is my responsibility. I'm going to go to their house and speak to them.

It's like I'm from a Jewish background. It's like if I didn't want to criticize Epstein or someone, it's insane. I would be the loudest voice condemning the madness. And I do speak about the Hasidic Jews. Sometimes there's some extreme stuff going on in those communities. spoken out about i can't imagine not wanting to do that and distance yourself but we don't hear many muslims not prominent muslims coming out and speaking about this why not whether it's denial I remember actually 2014

When the Professor Alexei Jay report came out on Radharam, we were actually in Radharam. for a couple of days when the report came and we were talking, nobody wanted to talk to us and say why. No one. I feel I want to press you again then because I asked you before and I don't know what I want to know what's going on in your mind. Because it sounds like it's not really actually just a Muslim problem. This is a Muslim Pakistani problem.

I think it's a cultural problem the way they're brought up and the way they think that they can treat other people that don't belong to them. clan um that is a number one thing um There's so many different sort of parts to this, I would say. So just by one or two things, I don't think it would cover it.

but yeah coming back to that see guy I actually stood outside court when he walked in and I I The Sun newspaper must have taken a photograph and put it out there, but it sort of put us in such a light that

there were a lot of white people protesting and myself and then again the right-wing labels used again but the reality was I just wanted to sort of show my disgust at that one particular individual and which we did you know which we did but yeah it's such a it's a weird thing this because I try to

I always try, and I think it reminds me of something you said at the beginning, you were talking about you try and find where we all agree or, you know, where we're together and those kinds of things. And I think sometimes I can be a bit naive about human nature. And even discussing the grooming gangs or the R word gang, you can't say on YouTube and all of these things, it's still sort of words. And then you really think about what, you know,

Because I guess part of me, I don't know why this happens, I start thinking about that man and I start to almost feel sorry for him because he's being led away, everyone hates him now and all those things. And then I think, oh, but hang on. what he actually was part of and what he did. I'm almost unable to empathize with evil on that level. And what all of those others involved in those gangs, white people as well who have been in those gangs. It's like we're living with another race of people.

Well, certainly, if you just look at sexual abuse and try to understand the very mindset of these people and how their brain is wired up. It is definitely different from... what a normal human being is is the way they're wired up you wouldn't want to hurt a child you wouldn't want anybody else to hurt your child so how come you're hurting these children beyond You know, I've been in this country since the age of two, but I don't have words in English to describe some of the level of abuse.

Because there are some individuals who do this thing on an individual level who don't realise they're hurting the kid or they try to make themselves not realise it. But when we're talking about a gang of this nature... They know that they're doing just unspeakable things. When you're passing people on, you're using and abusing yourself and then

You know, you've got friends and families and it's a group of people. They're groups of people. A gang, even when we talk about a gang, we're talking about, you know. It's different from a group of people. I don't know if it makes any sense. These people are known to each another. These people would sit in family environments together knowing what they're doing together outside as well.

yeah so they're sitting there having like dinner yeah i think you could be you could have the whole family you could be in a gathering you could be and knowing what they're doing so you could you know in gangs you might have the say The young man is only known to the gang members, his five or six gang crew. but he's not known what the family won't know what he's doing or that group won't know. But this is... The wives know?

I believe... you I believe so. But whether they can do anything is a different thing. Whether the control... aspect of their households are different it's positive they have a voice It all depends on that. It's part of this in terms of attacking these children.

Is it racially or religiously motivated? Because are there Muslim victims, children, or is it white? I have come across where young... Muslim families born in this country who have contacted us to help their children. I don't get a... It's not massive in numbers. I don't know whether it's sort of happening in big droves because We can only go and buy the data or the telephone calls that we get.

There is a very high percentage of Hindu girls being sexually abused obviously we set up as a Sikh organization we help everybody by the way but we would get concerned Sikh parents coming to us So that's the data that we have. We don't have data on Chinese or West Indians. It's only the people who use our service. But it happens in all cultures. But again,

There's a certain part that when you look at the percentage, the percentage is very high in one. Something is wrong. Something has got to... we've got to accept that something is wrong and then something needs to be

uh, set up and, and, and then, um, looked at and, and, and we know, um, you know, from, from, from, from the Alexi J report, um, wholesale failures on everywhere from the politicians to the local councillors to the Organisers that were dealing with this Sort of thing law enforcement agencies For not being not being they didn't want to call racist so just you know this is one thing that i i i try to grapple

I'm trying to get my head around this. Why would you allow thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of children to be damaged beyond belief?

What did people gain from it? Well, not being called racist. Yeah. How pathetic is that? And you've got... I mean, I work with an ex-policeman. I work with a guy called John Wedger. He's from the Met. And I remember he had to go... I think it was him had to go to the Supreme Court to the whistleblowing thing so he can come out with things. He was always

The doors were always closed when he went to his high authority. Just don't touch it, leave it. The police officer in Greater Manchester, she had to resign from her job because... Maggie Oliver. Yeah, Maggie Oliver. There's a crime here. There's a crime. There's a crime. Okay? There's a crime. Forget about it.

and these are people at the top and it's always coming down from the top and what what benefits what benefit the Britons have where you can have thousands of thousands of damaged children who are not going to be great contributors in the future. and look where all the resources then gotta go you still gotta put money in to get them right and get them sort of functioning and whatever so I just can't see where

A blind eye was turned to this kind of thing. I don't see, I just, sometimes you're sitting there and you come up with this and then you come up with that and you're thinking, Have you run up against that kind of bureaucracy or whatever it was that made them inactive or, you know, yourself when reporting things?

Yeah, look, you know, when you go up against a narrative, and you're going against something, a big machine like the system, you're gonna get problems. because i think the system they like sheep sheep are easy to control they don't like lions roaring and then the system will rubbish you, the system will... Has that happened to you?

I think yeah because i mean even within our own community this makes you laugh but When we were going around the Gurdwar saying this is happening Then Gurdwaras would say, well, we sit with the police We sit on meetings with the police and the police are saying Bring us the evidence who bring us the evidence bring us the evidence. I remember many years ago a newspaper you know you have the act after 25 years or 30 years they have to

come up with the goods. They can't sort of lock it up. Oh, they have to release the information. They have to release the information. And I remember a police force, West Midlands Police Force. with the sexual crimes they were sitting on data but yet they're asking you to produce data and then you going into a meeting with other other leaders would come back to us and say well the police don't have anything how come you guys have got it so it was turning your own community against you

just because you wanted to reveal the most barbaric sexual crimes. That's right, yeah. So you get that. And then obviously a mistrust is created and um and I remember it was I think it was the couple of very high-profile cases that I think one was in 2007

which we were involved in. And it took us 40 odd days to resolve that case. But because it was a high profile case, very... uh it was an 18 year old girl and um obviously the police was involved but then all temples all gordwaras were involved and because of that everybody knew what the about the problem and we were able to successfully sort of get the child back.

and she's doing okay uh currently as well and because of that i think the tide changed and also i would say that um journalists um a good friend of ours used to write for the times i think he still does um andrew norfolk and i remember his sort of a lot of his stuff started coming out in 2004 2005 about grooming gangs and that sort of then sort of now it's not just a You're saying it now. This is a journalist from The Times saying it.

And then I think the narrative changed completely when the BBC put the program out. Now it's BBC saying it. you must be true you know what I mean sort of thing and that sort of then changed the tide a bit and then but it was like I said there was a lot of brick walls and these brick walls were put in place where just to sort of make you a troublemaker

Have you got into confrontations with people from the Muslim community? You get a lot of abuse. Don't get me wrong, you get a lot of abuse. What kind of thing? Social media abuse, you know, all sorts of name calls and everything that's sort of very prevalent. It must be difficult for you and your family. Yeah, I mean, it's the nature of the beast, you know what I mean? It is what it is. The truth is the truth.

absolutely right yeah and you stick to your truth how do we solve this issue do you have any um optimism i i i don't unless you've got a uh you know this will go all the way up to the top Unless you've got somebody at the top who's going to say, you know, I'm not really bothered about the seats or the parliamentary this and that. We just need to get down to the bottom of it. Because if you look at the whole system, the whole... party system it's about I need your vote

So I'm going to ignore certain things what you're doing. You can never get to the truth that way. But it needs to be somebody very brave. I also believe that... if reporting was done in a different way if you don't have a victim you don't have a crime yet yeah but That's in all crimes, but not in terrorism.

so if a third person sees something and reports it to the police of terrorism not such and such as that would be taken very very serious okay so what i believe is that if you know the the the authorities the schooling um parents because the person who has been groomed And remember, they use the lover boy model, Romeo love and all this. So if you perceive that you're in love with someone, you're not going to the police.

You think you're in love. He might be beating you. He might be doing certain things. But then he'll give you 3% of love. You're not going to go to the police. You still think you can change him. And that can continue on for years. but if like school or teachers if they can see that there's a drop in her what's name and we feel that she has been completely misled and somebody's using her, that's information the police should take very seriously. and investigate these guys. And that might stop.

a lot of level of abuse because of third hand reporting, second hand reporting.

Because this shouldn't be for your job. You know, this should be the police. You shouldn't have to keep flying girls out of the country to protect them or around the country. No, but then again, look, if you look at the convictions for sexual grooming, I don't think the girls have gone straight to the police. They've gone through some charity, a rape crisis center, someone. Because the confidence level is very, very, very low.

And they've created that sort of atmosphere where a lot of these girls weren't listened to, so why would they go? and why other girls who are suffering listening to other girls would go to the authorities because these weren't listened to They've missed the signs or ignored the signs because of certain maybe conditions that were put on them. So I do believe third and secondhand reporting of people who are in authority schools because schools will see you eight hours a day.

Parents, whoever's looking at the children, if they... is a change of behavior from a positive to a negative and they are sort of finding stuff out then that should be taken very very seriously and I believe that you can really really cut down on this kind of crime this is a safe crime to do Because if the person is in love with you,

It is not going to the police. It's not going to the authorities. So you can safely do what you want to do. And we've come across girls where I say, well, okay, fine. You love this person. But how come you were sleeping with A, B and C and and you were able to go to different flats all because he told me he owed them money or they're gonna break his legs so I was doing it to save my lover Oh, my God. The lies that they tell their cats. Yeah, yeah. So...

I mean, I tell you what, it just comes to mind. There was this 17-year-old girl really struggling up in Bradford. and I went to speak to her she was 16 going 17 and and then I went to her parents house And she, I think, was under care or something of the authorities. A sick girl. I went to her parents. We... took their permission, the parents permission. We said we'll take her into the Midlands.

And we'll talk to a counsellor. We'll look after her for a bit just to get right into her mindset and see what's happening. And I remember having a really nice conversation coming back with her and I settled her in a house up in Structure. just so that She's comfortable. And I thought I'll give her three, four days before you start sort of talking to her. And I went up north because we had a case up in Newcastle.

And then I had a phone call from Yorkshire Police. Sorry, not Yorkshire Police. The West Midlands Police. Saying, where is this person? And I said the person is with us in Shropshire. Well, we need her back. This is Yorkshire Police. talking to West Midlands Police and I said, yeah, fine, that's not a problem, but we have the parental, we have the fathers and mothers. We've got a letter saying that, you know, and we will be taking it with the preparing's consent

I think 24 hours. Within 24 hours they had the girl back in Yorkshire. Do you know what? Till this date I don't even know if the girl exists or not. Can't get hold of her. The parents. What happens when you try to contact the parents? nothing dead deadlines and people in

Bradford are saying they've never seen the girl anywhere. It's like the police don't seem to realise what they're dealing with. yeah and she complained about rape and this is how we got involved actually she complained of rape where the sentence that she was in or the person who was running the center had raped her so we wanted to get down to the bottom of it we wanted her for a couple of months a month see if

what we can do with them. Within 24 hours, while I was in Newcastle, and they'd taken her, and we've never seen her, never heard of her. We don't even know if she exists or not anymore. So it is sometimes you're trying to fight this fight with one hand tied behind your back really.

So this is where we really emphasize on raising awareness, educating people. courses for parents, 10-week courses where we spend an hour with them, telling them the warning signs, how to set boundaries, how to talk to your children. communicate in a better way how to sort of look at the red flags look at look at every aspect and even obviously we know now online grooming is happening

I've got another question for you, but where can people sort of follow you and find out more about you? Oh, you can actually just go on Google and just put Seiko in a society and... you can go to the main web page and from there it will tell you

contacts and anything um there's about six seven different columns there and whatever you want you can get off the web page but we are on facebook we are on insta we're on youtube We're on social media so that people can find us and this is how people around the world sort of contest. We do have a helpline, a number in the UK, which obviously people in the UK can use.

But majority of the time, if people don't find us within the community, they'll ring their local Gurdwar up and the Gurdwar will give our number down or something like that. Yeah. Well, actually, before my last question, I want to know why do Sikhs have long hair and beards?

Uncut. We believe that God is perfect. He's created everything in perfection. everything in perfection and we want to stay to that form of perfection. From birth to death. Do you never cut your bed? No.

So does it get to a length where it just stops growing? Yeah, it just stops growing. Because I swear I've seen some people where it goes down to that. Oh, yeah. Some people. It's just basically genetics. And like everything else, if you're... prophet says one must do this our gurus we have ten gurus and they've said from state one not cutting your hair this this is one of the biggest cardinal sins cut in hair so baptize Sikhs I mean I use the word baptize because we're in the West

I mean it's not a ceremony like baptism but it's just going through a ceremony where you take vows and you go through. all the conditions and everything and then um and then cutting hair um No. It's a no-go. Drinking, smoking, Mustafa Karao on the 5Ks. It's a sort of bracelet. You've got case, which is the hair. Ganga, which is the comb in the hair. And you've got the kirpan and the kashara, the shorts. It's a uniform and you must stay in that uniform.

Do you have to sort of do things to your bed or does it stay that way? oh yeah you look after like you look after your body like you know you look after in the best way or you know that that that you can and that you should Because I'm also a believer that this is actually the real temple and the soul.

God exists in this temple Do you wear I wear a smaller version of it? Yeah, but my head is always covered even at home and yeah you just have to once you take baptism which is called Khande Bhattadipal So once you've gone through the ceremony then you have to live under them conditions. And I've been baptized back in 1984. So since 1984 all the way to the present, I try to live up to the ideals.

i remember we're human beings we can sort of fail and and learn from it and it's about growing but trying is the best way try to keep adhere to what was told to us at that particular time in the ceremony and then ask god for strength all the time

Who's a heretic you admire? When you say heretic, if you... I suppose anybody who went against typical opinion, any kind, could be a family member, could be Winston Churchill, someone that you admire. I would just go back to my guru, my tenth guru, Guru Gobind Singh Ji, when the whole of the Sikh community was persecuted.

He gave up his four sons. They were martyred because they wouldn't change their faith. They wouldn't change their religion. Two of his younger sons were... seven and nine they were imprisoned And they were all to change their faith, to take on Islam by the Mughals at that time. They refused in court. Can you imagine a seven-year-old, a nine-year-old in court because of their faith? When was that? it's just going back in 1704

So it's recent, probably just over 300 years. So this is taking place, yeah, about 1704. and thousands and thousands of Sikhs. who were martyred because of their faith. We had a price on our heads. And one way of distinguishing us from our faith, our hair were cut. So can you imagine how important the hair is to keep the hair and the keeper wasn't it? And this was all brought upon the spirit by the 10th Guru.

who gave up everything. His father was a martyr, his mother was a martyr, his four sons were martyred. And yet he didn't lose faith. And that inspires me every day. That's a fascinating heretic. Yes.

People, please go and check out the Sikh Awareness Society. I'll put a little link down below. Mohan's been absolutely wonderful. So please do check that out and support his and our cause here. Spread that message. Hit the like button. And subscribe to the channel. Keep watching it as well.