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integrated shipping solutions that actually save you time from startups to scale ups online in person and on the go shopify is made for entrepreneurs like you sign up for your one dollar a month trial at shopify.com slash setup Nothing short of an atrocity where tens of thousands, perhaps up to a quarter million, young British girls, predominantly white British girls, targeted because of their not being.
Muslim. Her killer, there's an audio of him laughing about cutting her up and putting her in the kebab meat. All of that, and these people are more concerned about Musk. These girls should be household names in this country, just like George Floyd is a household name. It makes me pace the room, like with anger, because they're non-Muslims, they're kefir. That's why these girls have been targeted. Labour will be pretty...
pissed off that the whole narrative that they're trying to control has been completely ripped apart by Elon Musk. Keir Starmer. He doesn't want to have an inquiry. What possible reason does he have for not wanting an inquiry? Okay, so the best evidence he was told by his colleagues colleagues in Labour, don't mention ethnicity. It's bad for getting votes. but the results are in. Last month, Heretics grew by 50,000 subscribers to pass 300,000. Who knew that all I had to do was ask?
Thank you so much and please keep liking and subscribing because we can grow this channel together and attract even more guests. Well, thank you for having me back on the show. Why are you starting my show, Winston? This is my show. What are you doing? Oh, God. Good to have you, Winston. A second time on Heretics. Good to have you. How are you doing?
Thank you so much for inviting me back on. Congratulations on all your success. The heretics sign embossed on silver as we walk. I mean, it feels good, doesn't it? It feels good. Those little moments. It's a sign. It's a sign of things to come. Tell me, right.
We're having a lovely chit-chat, but there's a lot of mad stuff going on in our world, in this world, in Europe, in the UK. I mean, around the world, really. The grooming gang's scandal is massive. Now, just tell me your thoughts on what's going on, because everyone has a different take on it. It's such a multifaceted story and issue, decades long. I guess for people who don't know the story, I know you've interviewed survivors and victims.
of the grooming gang so much of your fan base will be aware but this is a multi-faceted decades-long horrific atrocity nothing short of an atrocity where tens of thousands perhaps up to a quarter million Young British girls, predominantly white British girls, targeted because of their not being Muslim, or not being Pakistani, because the perpetrators are predominantly Pakistani Muslims.
This, it sort of starts with the, I guess, open borders ideology. All cultures are equal. Anyone can come to Britain. Then... There's the ideology of those who are the perpetrators themselves treating different people differently. And then you have a failure of... Local authorities, local police, police, greater police, politicians, councillors, care homes, prime ministers. It's completely systemic.
horrific scandal and a total failure of the media. Did you see Keir Starmer's first press conference after this story broke? No, what did he say? So it was about the NHS, but when he took questions from the press, not one, not two, but three different journalists asked about Musk before any asked about... The rape gangs. So just put yourself in the mind of the journalists, including Beth Rigby of Sky News. Someone asks about the rape gangs. Oh, sorry.
It's about the NHS. Someone asks the first question, it's about Musk. So he answers about Musk. Then you think, okay, next journalist, the Musk question's been asked, I'll ask about the rape gangs. No. They're going to ask another question about Musk. Then the third journalist, two journalists have asked about Musk. Maybe it's my turn to ask about the rape gangs. No, they ask about Musk again. Now, again, if you haven't been following the story, what happened was about a couple of weeks ago.
I think it started with Fraser Nelson was doing, he had done some piece about immigration and it being a positive thing. And then that escalated. Then Rupert Lowe, the reform MP, dug up some... testimonies from the 2014 case describing the torture of one of these young British girls. And then Elon Musk.
started going on about it and exposing and retweeting all of those things. These people care more about Musk than they do about the actual victims. It's as if what Musk has been doing is more evil. than the rape, torture, abuse, in some cases murder. This is a thing, I don't say this for any sort of credit, but on my show, I... As long as I've been in the world of journalism and podcasting, I've covered the rape gang scandals. My first episode, when I went independent, I talked about...
the actual victims who were murdered, like Laura Wilson, Lucy Lowe. Lucy Lowe, who was burnt in her home. with her sister and her mother by her rapist while she was pregnant by her rapist. Oh, horrific. Charlene Downs, her killer, there's an audio of him. saying, laughing about cutting her up and putting her in the kebab meat. This is the most horrific, and if you read the transcripts, if you can believe it, it's worse than what I've just described.
Now, all of that, and these people are more concerned about Musk. I, for one, am thrilled that this has finally got global attention. These girls should be household names in this country, just like George Floyd is a household name. And the way the media respond, I generally, when I see this stuff, it makes me pace the room with anger. Do you think it's a case of, they used to have some, sometimes on the right, there's been these sort of satanic panic kinds of things in the past.
on the left are a bit snooty and a bit like, well, come on. And they don't really want to... But we have evidence. We know this is literally happening now, but they still want to close their eyes and ears to it. Did you see Rupert Lowe's questions in...
parliament a few days ago. Tell us about that. He reads off all the correct questions. When are there going to be the answers to this? Who's going to be kept accountable? When are we going to deport those who were foreign nationals who perpetrated these heinous crimes?
Sarah Champion, the very same Sarah Champion, who in 2017, Jeremy Corbyn, forced her to resign from his shadow cabinet because she'd done a Sun article saying that Britain has a problem with Pakistani men abusing and raping young people. white girls, that same woman stood up and were like, mind your language, think about what your words are. I'm like, what? Have you learned nothing? It's the political correctness. We talk about which ideologies.
have been part of this huge- edifice of horror it's it's uh exactly that political correctness don't say what don't just you know we we mustn't offend the the perpetrators like are you insane this is exactly how we've got in this mess to begin with. One thing I can't get to the bottom of with this is I keep getting conflicting statistics.
And no one seems to quite know. And of course, this kind of crime is very hard to find out exactly about. No one knows exactly how much is going on, how much we don't know about. But I hear some people say, I think Maggie Oliver came on and said, it's hugely pro-rata British... Pakistani Muslims who are carrying out these grooming gangs. I should say, by the way, people...
don't like use of the word grooming gang because it sort of hides the horror of it. There's a euphemism. At the same time, I have to use it on YouTube because we have to bleep the R word. And if people have a problem with that, please take it up with YouTube because... I totally get why people are upset by that, but we've got to take it up with YouTube. Otherwise, I've got my producer having to bleep out that R word all the time. So I say grooming gang.
Maggie Oliver was saying it's a lot of people, British, Pakistanis. And then you're hearing other people saying, well, actually in Cornwall and Devon, there were all these gangs who were white people. And then some people go, well, that's whataboutery. And other people are going, what's the... What's the truth here? Are we over-focusing on Islam because we don't like foreign-seeming things? Or is it an Islamic problem?
Well, there's two parts to this. Just for the first part, there seems to be a contention that some people are arguing it's not actually a Pakistani, predominantly Asian issue. You'll remember, in the same press conference I described, Keir Starmer, he calls them Asian grooming gangs. So he at least is...
Not going there. And there are other members of Labour who are... Maurice Glassman, the founder of Blue Labour, has been fantastic on this. There's Andy Burnham. There's members of Labour who are talking properly about this. Or at least to a small extent. Now, there are some people saying, no, it's not an Asian problem. No, it's not a Pakistani problem. No, it's not a Muslim problem. And there's different reports suggesting...
different things. But if you look at the Alexis J report, that does say it is predominantly a Pakistani, the perpetrators are Pakistani. Is that right? Quilliam did a report. Quilliam was a now defunct, but a fantastic organization headed up by Harish Rafiq. Ed Hussain and Majid Nawaz, who are all British Pakistanis. And they didn't want to find this, but they found, yes, the perpetrators, it's like 84, 85% are Pakistani grooming gangs. Now, the big difference is that...
The bait and switch that they do is that they say child sexual exploitation is actually proportional to the population figures of the nation. But it's different for gang. child exploitation. So if you look at when it's perpetrated by gangs, it's way out of proportion, a Pakistani British problem. So that's one of the cheeky bits where they try and...
kind of maneuver the data. So the rest of the population, we have this issue, and it is a real issue of just horrible people in society, of all races who are exploiting children. And then this gang idea, which seems to suggest there's a cultural issue and these kids are being passed around. This is very much... And I would also say... You can hear in the reports of the victims, the victims are being told... They're giving racial abuse whilst they're being abused.
It's because they're kefir. It's another thing that the British Sikhs have understood very well and have their own system to protect their girls because those are also non-Muslims being attacked because they're non-Muslims. It is specifically because they're non-Muslims. They're kefir.
That's why these guys have been targeted. Which is an interesting point because a lot of Sikhs and Hindus are up in arms about it being called Asian gangs. And they're saying, hang on a minute. They're quite right. Yeah, these are Muslim gangs. There's not Japanese gangs or Singaporean gangs.
rolling the streets of Manchester. So there's a cultural problem right now, which we've allowed to enter into our country. We need to handle it. And Keir Starmer really does not want to. He doesn't want to have an inquiry. What possible reason does he have for not wanting an inquiry?
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Okay, so the best evidence is while he was director of prosecutions, DPP, he... This is a report done by Guy Adams, I think, for the Daily Mail. There was a report that they had changed some of the sentencing of... for Charles' sexual exploitations and some versions of Charles' sexual exploitations under his changes, which meant that they would no longer get prison sentences, they would get...
community services or whatever. The exact details I don't have to mine, but anyone listening can look it up. It's Guy Adams' report for the Daily Mail. I think that there's been other whistleblowers in Labour who have... Simon... I think he was Rotherham MP, either Rotherham or Rochdale, I've forgotten. And he said he was told specifically by the chairman of the Labour Party.
not to mention the ethnicity. He was told by his colleagues in Labour, don't mention ethnicity, it's bad for getting votes. So there's already evidence, and there's even reports that Gordon Brown... This needs to be verified. And since this report come out, there's reports that Gordon Brown is denying it. I'm not sure what is the truth, but there's reports that he put a circulation around while he was prime minister saying these guys have made a lifestyle choice.
That needs to be double checked. But anyway, so there's something going on with Labour. I'm not for a second going to defend, took the Tories record on this issue. So that might be one possibility. I think another possibility is that Labour will be... pretty pissed off that the whole narrative that they're trying to control has been completely ripped apart by elon musk but they wanted they had all these plans they want to do and now at christmas you know this
It wasn't on their agenda to deal with this, and now they have to do it. And it's everyone in the bloody country cares about this. By the way, everyone in the country has cared about this for a long time. I'm firmly of the belief that part of the spirit that animated the August riots... After the alleged Axel Rudacobana, well, let's say this, not the alleged, after the Southport killing of those three young girls, part of the spirit that animated the riots that followed...
was that our girls are still being killed and attacked. And they are being, and it's a long time they've been killed. And it's not just grooming gangs, it's various terrorist attacks. I mean, we've had 95... Brits killed by Islamists since 2005. And of all the horrors, you know, the Ariana Grande Manchester Arena attack in 2017.
That was Our Young Girls again. The horror of the Southport killing was like, it wasn't just a suicide bomb. It was like, it was the most heinous, cold-blooded murder one can imagine. So... It just triggered the imagination of so many people. It's like, we've had enough. By the way, it happened in Nosley. It happened in Nosley in 2023, I think January, February, asylum hotel. There was a Syrian...
asylum seeker there who was caught on video making some sort of inappropriate pass at a young teenage girl. The video went viral. All the media again. denying it, trying to cover it up. Even if you try and look it up, it's only certainly that GB News covered it. GB News has been fantastic for all of this. Thank God, and for Charlie Peters as well. Superb. If you want to...
If you are interested in this topic, follow Charlie Peters, because every day since this has broken, he's been interviewing different victims in the families and getting their voices out, a proper voice for the voiceless. Now, in Noseley, you look up exactly the sequence of events of what happened.
If you watch the mainstream, if you look it up in the mainstream media, the Guardian, they'll say far-right riots. But what they won't tell you is that before then, there had been this video, which you can find the videos online, and then... Everyone was pissed off, went to the police. The police didn't do it. I think they might have found someone and then let him go. But basically, they did not go and deal with the problem. At that point, then there were riots.
Now, there is a protocol is that when there's an Islamist attack, wherever it is, across Europe, you say it's an Islamist attack, we're going to deal with the problem. That is, by the way, how you deal with all of these problems. The people in charge have to say, we know exactly what it is. No political correctness. You say, this is the problem. We're on it and you deal with it. And that's another problem with Southport is that...
there's a sense of like, what is this? We're not saying this. We're not calling it what it is. Now, we haven't had the trial. We probably can't say because of sub-Judas law is too much about. that case perhaps we shouldn't go too far we can say we can say what the public obviously knows which is that this was Rudy Axel Rudogabana. Axel Rudogabana. I mean, this will probably come out, this video, just before the trials heating up, which I've been told was deliberately...
done at the same time, I don't know how much that's conspiratorial, the same time as Trump's inauguration. January 20th. Yeah, to sort of hide. Well, look, okay, on that, is it conspiratorial? When was it that the Merseyside police announced that on top of... his other charges. He would also be charged with having al-Qaeda materials and he'll be charged with having ricin in his home.
That was timed exactly with when Labour put out their budget. And it was later reported by the BBC that Keir Starmer, or I forget who it was, maybe it was Yvette Cooper. knew of the charges being brought by Merseyside police several weeks before then. But let's check the language. Knew of the charges. If it is true that Axel Rudipana had... Al-Qaeda material at his home, then the Home Office and the Prime Minister, they will have known, if not the same day, within 48 hours. They knew.
if it's true that he had that stuff. Yeah, I think many of us, again, we have to be so careful because of the upcoming trial, but I think what's been reported in the news, it sounds impossible to even imagine that they didn't know, at least within...
the first few days and probably the first 48 hours as you say and so to then go and blame the far right again I don't even know what kind of strategy that is in terms of bringing people on side and trying to get votes and things because I don't know how that's a vote winner you just pissed off the whole working class in particular, not that the working class was the only people rioting, but I imagine it was more so. Yeah, Keir Starmer said in his press conference last week that those...
who want a national inquiry are jumping on the far right bandwagon. Well, 76% of the country want a national inquiry. Does that mean that 76% of the country are far right? And this is, relative to the rest of the world, a relatively leftist country, isn't it? I mean, it's particularly compared to the US, particularly compared to places like South Korea at the moment, it's quite far on the right. People in England, really, compared to America, they're quite lefty. The idea that 70%...
could be like far right-wing bigots is absurd. Yeah, it's obviously absurd. According to these people, everyone's bloody far right. As long as I've been... covering the grooming gang story, there's always people coming out in the comments saying, far right, far right, far right. I'm sure you've been called far right for something or other. It's lost all meaning, that term. It's absolutely ridiculous. I saw a great video. I don't know who it was by, but it was sort of showing the way that the...
people who are very far on the left and the people who are very far on the right, often quite authoritarian, don't seem to understand there's actually a centre. So those people on the far left will just say anything right of them is far right. People on the far right will say anything left of them is woke and far left. And a lot of us are just trying to say, well, hang on. We're not calling for murder of anyone who's different from us or racist or anything like that.
We do want to have an inquiry and find out what's actually happening with the grooming sky. You have to have an inquiry. I mean, Jess Phillips, ironically called our safeguarding minister, was the one who didn't want an inquiry into... It took four months to turn down the people of Oldham's request for a local inquiry carried out by Oldham, or sorry, an inquiry into what was going on in Oldham. Oldham had had...
an inquiry published in 2022, which did state that the young girls had been neglected and let down. But there was no evidence of any sort of cover up. Now, you can't have the people who were accused. of a crime or any wrongdoing be in charge of the own inquiry into the problem, obviously, not least as one of them has actually, one of the members of Oldham Council has been charged.
with being one of the grooming gang perpetrators. Bloody hell. Yeah. So we need to have a national inquiry. The GB News have found that this is going on in at least 50 towns and cities up and down. country. And look, we can talk about inquiry. Ultimately, what we need is justice and redemption. And for the girls, I mean. Absolutely. And that's the priority. And I think...
To get that, there needs to be an inquiry. And then we need to talk seriously about the punishment for the perpetrators. This cannot happen again. Jess Phillips is an interesting one because Elon Musk called it a genocidal rape. Defender or something like that. Great gang apologist. Yeah. And I thought, you know, I didn't like that. And then I thought.
No, I think he said rape genocide apologist. Yes. By the way, she has said several times on Twitter. You can just find it. I was a bit like, you can't call someone that. She's trying to do a job. It's a difficult job. I don't agree with how she's done it.
it's not an easy position. I think we do have to remember that we have to humanize people. These are politicians, they're real people. She goes around, actually, and she made the point of, I've sat there with victims of this, I've tried, and I think she's trying to do her best. And I don't think she's going about it the right way, but she's trying to do her best.
calling her that. And then I saw, as you're pointing out, she's called countless people exactly the same thing. Well, when the Christmas mass rapes were happening in Germany, I forget what year. but I think it was mainly in Cologne, she went on Question Time and said, oh, it looks like Birmingham on a night out or on a Saturday night or something. And she's also, her constituency, I think the... is predominantly Asian Muslim. And we remember the footage of her getting heckled when she won.
the election in July. So she's playing all sorts of weird games. Yeah. But imagine she is your friend. She was interviewed after, again, by Beth Rigby. Beth Rigby, who then did a whole article. Like, oh, poor old Jess Phillips. Where are these people? Have they been really covering the group? It's as if Jess Phillips is the real story here. No, it's the bloody grooming gags. It's total moral inversion. These people have not... You can search on Twitter.
if you go to people's profiles and see how many times they've tweeted about grooming gangs, all of this lot, they haven't. Now, it might be the case that they're here and there have mentioned it on their podcast, but... If you look up John Sopel, Emily Maitlis, Lewis Goodall, Alistair Campbell, Rory Stewart, you know, the so-called centrist dads, how much have they...
Do they actually care about these issues? They never, ever once tweeted about this stuff. It's pathetic. And I don't, you can't be a journalist. What journalists worth their salt have not covered the most heinous, horrific... child sexual abuse scandal in our nation's history. If you have not covered it...
then you're a disgrace, actually, frankly. Yeah, I agree with that. They wind me up particularly because they frame themselves as centrists. And again, fine. And they claim this moral high ground. Yeah. Oh, we know. There's something. utterly perverse about it in fact there's a i mean this is harsher but one thing i was thinking a lot when all this grooming gangs stuff has been coming out
And I know you've covered the trans issue a lot on this show. And you've had a lot of detransitioners and people talking about what has been going on. And I think we're past the hump on this heinous ideology. But like that ideology... It is progressivism, the progressives, in search of some bizarre utopia, sacrificing our children. In the 20th century, the progressives would...
stomach hundreds of millions killed in the name of this socialist communist utopia. In the 21st century, we're sacrificing our children. It's the same thing. These people, they'll overlook the most heinous possible evils. in search of some great ideology. I don't know what, I can't even, like I described earlier in the press conference, I can't even put myself in their brain. I'm like, what the, how do I relate to these?
people that think like this it's so topsy-turvy and then they're the ones who who point their fingers go far right far right far right Yeah, yeah. Well, you're absolutely right. I mean, you say plus sachance. I mean, France was horrible for this. The 80s, wasn't it? And Foucault and all of that. I mean, Sartre, I think. These people were all in favour of adult-child relations. In Germany, they had this scandal, the Kentler experiments.
also the 80s. That was the far left. It was the Green Party, I believe, they were associated with it, where they had this homeless children problem, and they had a problem of not knowing what to do with the predators. And so they put children to live with the predators in foster homes.
homes because they thought that's a way of solving both of it and it was the far left every single time that's why the far right often do go sometimes too easily or to trigger happy you know you guys are a bunch of
Whereas the left will always go, you guys are a bunch of Nazis. Those are the two things to throw at one another. Sometimes the far right can go towards Nazism, that happens. Sometimes the far left, as has happened too often recently, has allowed adult-child relations. They don't really care about our children because the...
Theology is more important to them. And it's the name of virtue. That's the thing that makes me sick. They're the virtuous ones. They think they're the ones who are right. It's that arrogance. It's that assumption that they're right.
It's disgusting. It's happened too many times over the years, unfortunately. That is something that the far left is tarred with. And you know what? That Berlin thing, when I say that, I know it sounds conspiratorial. So people look it up, go and check it all out. It all checks out. It all happened. state-sponsored in Germany, put the homeless kids with known predators to live with them. Those kids are anonymous now.
but have come out and their lives are ruined, of course, what happened to them. And no one cares. They just go on about their lives and just continue with the progressive madness. We've now had, in the last few months, a failure to want to look into the grooming scandal, as we've just discussed. Calls for blasphemy laws. And what was the other one? Calls for first cousin marriage. To be made illegal.
To be, yeah, or people's suggestion. Oh, sorry, you're right, yeah. Calls for first cousin marriage. Defense of first cousin marriage in Parliament. These are three quite extraordinary things that have all happened within a month and a half. Just as we have been discussing, is it getting a little bit out of hand? Is it getting a little bit out of hand? It's been getting out of hand for decades. It's funny, on the way here, I was listening to Mark Zuckerberg on Rogan. Because last night...
What was trending on Twitter was that Meta, formerly Facebook, have announced that they'll no longer be putting tampons in men's changing rooms in their offices. Now, on the one hand, it's obviously a ridiculous... headline and it's funny but on the other hand it's like actually that kind of illustrates everything America is they've it's saved like they're gonna be fine I think I mean yeah no one knows maybe not but
They're past the hump of it. We're still in this world where we'll entertain ridiculous issues like that. The bigger issue that we have, which they don't have... quite like we do, is the problem of integration. Of course, we've had millions mass migration coming into this country, starting with New Labour and Tony Blair and turbocharged by the Tories, not least Boris and his famous Boris wave.
Gross migration of well past a million over the last few years. What is it? Something like 14% of non-EU... Migrants into Britain of the last two million have been working and 86% were dependents or students. So we just, we're importing. the world, people coming over here. I've got a friend from Iraq, from Baghdad, and he has a joke about that they have there, which is that, oh, if you want to go, if you want to emigrate to the West, if you want to work, go to America.
if you don't want to work go to europe and so they're getting a much higher quality i think of of people moving there although they've got other different types of immigration problems. And that's, I guess, a topic for another day. But we've obviously got mass scale immigration. And this ties back to the beginning of this conversation. That's one of the ideologies, an ideology that all cultures are the same. And then we've got the problem of specifically integration between Muslims into Britain.
It's another one that is politically incorrect to talk about. And it's something you and I have talked about a fair amount. And the issues you brought up are associated with them. I think the person... the mp defending cousin marriage was saying that it's absolutely normal in the middle east and yeah for this it's it strengthens families cousin marriage um
And if you look at the statistics as well on Muslims in Britain, it's not good. So I'll do a black pill and then I'll do a white pill. I think it's worth doing this exercise because there are some people who are... reading the black pill and the data, and they're going, fuck. Yeah. You've got to explain what those are, though. We've got to deport. You've got to explain what black pill and white pill are. Black pill, pessimists, white pill, optimists. Yeah. So the black pill...
I mean, it's lengthy, but includes this Henry Jackson Society study at the beginning of 2024. 75% of British Muslims do not think that Hamas committed. rape or murder on October 7th. More than 50% of British Muslims have a favorable opinion of Hamas. More than 50% of British Muslims want the images of the Prophet Muhammad to be... outlawed, i.e. blasphemy laws. And of course, we've mentioned the grooming gangs. And so there's...
Sorry, 39,000 to 40,000 of extremists on MI5 watch lists are jihadis, which means... One in 100 British Muslims are on the jihadi watch list. As I mentioned earlier, we've had at least 95 killed in terrorist attacks since 2005. And so there's... It's not been a success, to put it that way, in terms of integration. Now, the white pill, I'll add to the black pill, is those who have put their neck out.
So, for example, I mentioned earlier, Quilliam had done a report about the grooming gangs, honourable British Pakistani men. They have been chastised, vilified, ostracised from their fellow... muslims and and we we should remember those um men who have absolutely those great costs it's it's it's very important to remember those people um
So I guess that adds to the black pill, how they've been treated. However, it maybe adds to the white pill, but those people do actually exist. Another person who I've been very impressed with and spent a bit of time with recently, Azir Youssef of Reform Party.
who's the chairman of reform party and this guy is i really i think he's a very impressive dude he might be the british vivek ramaswamy and i say that because of his ideas not because of his identity um The white pill is that firstly, there are Muslim majority countries like the Emiratis, like the Saudis.
who are dealing with their Islamist threat properly. They have no qualms about it. There's no political correctness. And, you know, they sort them out. Likewise, Singapore. Singapore is 18% Muslim. Now... Singapore is not totalitarian, but it's authoritarian. They have capital punishment. What's the difference? Well, totalitarian is that it would be North Korea. Everything in your life is under watch. It's total state. So it's almost like a spectrum and authoritarianism is close to...
Authoritarian is just like indexing harder on the law and order, I guess you would say. In Singapore, I think you get fined for spitting out chewing gum on the streets. Now, but the point is that they have actually got a multicultural society and they don't have Islamist tax and it's got under control.
I'd also add, just to colour this picture, is that if you look at the Abraham Accords, these nations in the Middle East, like the Saudis and the Emiratis, want peace with Israel. They want trade with Israel. I'm very hopeful, particularly with Trump coming back in, if they can carry on where he left off on those things that we might actually be heading towards peace. I also think what Israel...
destroying Hamas, Hezbollah, you get rid of Iran, then Qatar is the only sort of niggling issue. But maybe I'm obviously... That's quite optimistic. There's an optimist view. Could happen. It's unbelievably complex, which I'm just whittling through. But as for Britain, so what's happened in the discourse is that people are seeing all this list on the black pill and they're going like, it's become...
The discourse is extremely, not just anti-Islam, specifically anti-Muslim. And it's one thing to be against a set of ideas, and that's acceptable, even though... Labour who have accepted the APPG definition of Islamophobia are not allowed to criticize Islam. That's another issue. But the discourse is very much becoming very anti-Muslim. Now...
That line of discourse then goes to re-migration. Deport the lot of them, that's what they're saying. Well, what we haven't actually tried is enough of the bullshit political correctness. Let's try some law and order. Let's deport... foreign nationals who commit heinous crimes back to their country of origin. Let's deport those who have dual nationality, who have been perpetrators in this crime. And then those who are British citizens, prison for life.
We actually deal with the issue and we do proper law and order. At the moment, it's not only that we're not doing proper law and order, but if you look into some of the police cases... There's sentencing. It's actually different depending on the nationality of the victim. So there's actually an incentive for those rapists to attack.
White girls, because of the whole thing, the way the thing's been set up. So what we need is, before any discussion about re-migration, which when you start talking about re-migration of naturalised British citizens that are... not perpetrating crime. I actually think that is fascism. Now, we don't need to go there. You just proper law and order, deal with these things. There's, again...
Free speech people won't like it, but the Sedition Act was repealed by Gordon Brown in 2009. Sedition meaning that you can't try and incite... undermining of the state. But if you had a Sedition Act, you wouldn't have Sharia courts, because there are 85 Sharia courts in Britain. You would be able to deal with a lot of these issues.
I think if you had proper law and order and then it doesn't work, then we've got another issue. But I think that that might be the, that's my white pill. It's like, and we can get on. And I think, as I said, there's people like Zia Youssef, there's the Quilliam guys. There's very honourable British Muslims who are talking about this stuff properly, and they want to be part of the British dream. And I think they can be, absolutely. It all reminds me of a football manager.
A new football manager comes in and they go like, we're going to be attacking this time and try that. And then you end up being a bit too attacking and they're not defending. And then another one comes in, then Jose Mourinho comes in and parks the bus and everyone's bored. It's so hard to predict the future. Everything you say sounds...
Absolutely right to me. And then I think, oh, well, this means more sort of authoritarian control. It doesn't have to go as far as Singapore, of course. But is that a slippery slope? Do we start restricting, as you say, free speech? Those are the things we have to weigh up, I suppose.
But you agree we can't have it as it is? No. Yeah, yeah, I agree. Okay, so what's yours? If not law and order, what? I feel almost like if I am about to be appointed the new manager of this team, I would go, you know what? I don't really fancy the job because it's fucked. But you know what? And that's the end. And actually, by the way, that is actually part of the problem. Too many great, the best of this country are leaving.
They're going to the Emirates. They're going to America. All the entrepreneurs, the wealth generators, the aspirational, they're leaving this country. A lot of people are going to Australia and New Zealand, tradespeople. And the people who are staying and the people who are too bound up in family.
I don't mean that negatively. Obviously, family is the most important thing, but they're bound by their family or they can't afford to leave. But the best are leaving. The term brain drain is from the 60s when this happened before. British scientists were leaving for America. because we were losing all our best. And not only that, people are too scared to stand up and...
talk about these issues because they don't want to be smeared as far right. All this language has been very effective in knocking people down. And that's a huge factor in why we're in this mess. Can I tell you what, Peter? You need to stand up. And you are. In fact... you put yourself down, but the work you're doing, you're actually giving a voice to the voiceless and you are...
Part of the fight back, I think. No, I don't mean to be apathetic. I think it's part of my sort of... You're not apathetic. Your behaviour indicates you're the opposite of apathetic. Yeah, I didn't mean to suggest that or that, oh, we're screwed, you know. It's just the way I... It's my way of... My rhetoric.
suppose. But Peter Boghossian said to me, I think I might have told you about this. He was saying, you guys, it's over. If I were you, I would just give England to the Muslims and cut a deal and leave. He wants us to sell the whole country, basically. Now, obviously, that's insane. But that's how Americans perceive us right now. And you and I were at a sort of very high profile... That's not how Americans perceive us. Well, you and I were at this place at a very sort of high profile, lots of...
center, center-right people who are very high up in this kind of world recently. And everybody there, when they mentioned Britain, said, gosh, it's gone. That's how they see us. Yeah. They're getting aversion. of Britain. And I think a lot of it is largely correct. I think Peter's a great guy and a cool friend as well. But it's a ridiculous statement. He might be being facetious. Yeah, I mean...
It's just not even helpful, though, to what aim is saying something like that. Look at your wife's country, Argentina, the third most prosperous country in the world in the 1890s, something like that.
And a century, well over a century of socialism destroying their nation. And then here comes the big man with his golden chainsaw and he's turning the place around. Now, we're in a lot of trouble, Britain, but if... anything javier malay or the same can be said of bukele in el salvador nations can be turned around america was in a very bad way and it looks like it's going to be turned around under under trump god willing so um
I think things can be bad, but they can be turned around. And hopefully this is the nadir. Which business insurance provider is trusted by nearly one million customers? Take it away, Gina. From builders to bakers to beauticians, if you need business insurance, join nearly one million customers who trust Simply Business. So search Simply Business today. That's enough, Gina. T's and C's and acceptance criteria apply. UK only. But...
we've got four and a half more years of labour. So it could get a whole lot worse. It could do. It could do. And even with Millet, I mean, we still have to wait and see. I mean, it's such a hard thing to turn a country around. You never get enough time, really. And if you had too much time, you could become a little bit too...
dictatorial, you know? So it's really tough. I was just there. It's more expensive than it's ever been, by a long way. Oh, really? Yeah. I would say it's on par with the UK, and in many respects, more expensive, groceries and things like that, which led me to think, how the hell are people from... They call them the bishas, the slums, the spelt villas. How are they affording anything? I don't even know. However, people are starting to earn more.
And it looks like the economy is starting to turn around. A lot of people disagree about that, but it's amazing to see. For the first time, I've been going there for 10 years to see this kind of, it looks like there's some optimism, some energy, something. So yeah, I would like to see. something happened in the UK. Do you think Nigel Farage is that man? I think that he is that man. And there is a glimmer of hope in...
That at least these guys are saying it how it is. Rupert Lowe as well has been fantastic in Parliament. He's asking all the right questions. As I said, I spent time with Zia Yusuf. I don't think he said too much publicly, but privately he's having all the right conversations about tech, about entrepreneurship. You know, we've got to turn this country into the place where...
People want to move because it's the best place to start a business instead of losing everyone. People come here because they want to fulfill themselves and fulfill their dreams. And we're an ancient people. We've been here on this island for millennia. We gave to the world. We talked about Singapore earlier. The Singaporeans love us because we created that country and it was all the...
brilliant things of common law and our history that is their history. It's the same can be said of Hong Kong, the same can be said of Australia. We have this built-up potential and we just need to... let it rip. And instead, we've talked a lot in this conversation about the cultural aspect. The other thing is the economic side and this kind of idea of taxing everyone to oblivion. And that's why everyone leaves, by the way.
Because all the people who work are like, fuck this. Why should I... It must be like this running this show. Certainly with my show, it's like we work our ass off and then we see the... Like the tax, but you're like, are you joking? Like we can't reinvest like we want to into the company. We can't grow this thing because we've got to hand all the money over. That Beatles song, Taxman, right? Which is a great song.
It's about that because they were being taxed so high. And I find it extraordinary. I was only thinking about that the other day. And I might have gotten this wrong, but I'm pretty sure this was a song that was angry. about how high taxes are. And it's just, it says something of the culture. I can't imagine a song being written today that way round because we're so culturally leftist that a band saying taxes are too high... Yeah, I think when George Harrison wrote that, it was...
It was the early 60s, right? And I believe, if my memory's not wrong, I'm sure this can be Googled, the tax was something like 90%. I think it was 90% as well. Yeah, yeah. And that was still in the aftermath of the war. Yeah. But it is true today that something like 67, 68% of young people have a favorable opinion of socialism, which is utterly shocking to me. You actually study socialism and this is a...
or just like basic economics. It's like obvious why that's a bad idea. And I believe now the majority of British households take more from the state than they put in. This attitude of... thinking that taxing everything is it's going to save everything i mean look it's a whole other conversation but it's kind of down to the laffer curve laffer curve shows that the more you tax the less you generate
And so there's a sweet spot where you tax a certain amount, you're going to get a maximum amount, but you keep taxing all the wealth creators go. That's why we're losing so many great people. And it does relate to the culture as well. Firstly, because those great people are leaving and it changes the culture of this country. But also there was an article Jordan Peterson wrote recently in The Standard about antisemitism. And he said the litmus test for a society that...
failing is the Jews. When people turn on the Jews, when there's a rise in antisemitism, it tends to be because of the perception of Jews overachieving, whether the perception is true or not. So I think it probably is, but that's another conversation. But it tends to signify a country that has stopped caring very much about meritocracy and success and doing well. Do you see that? Yeah, absolutely. It's really the spirit of envy.
yeah it's the spirit of cain yeah uh and then certainly that's what um jordan peterson talks a lot about and You listen to a lot of the dialogue. I mean, we know that between 100 and 140 million people have been killed in socialist and communist societies across the world. And it's the... I was reading... This is going to be a bit...
Might sound a bit drastic. But so I'm going to think out loud for you. I was reading scripture and the story of King Solomon. And it's one of the first stories about King Solomon. It's quite a famous story. Two whore women.
who both have a child, and one of them loses the child and takes the other woman's child in the night and claims it's her child. And then the one whose child it really was was like... that's my child and very upset they both go to king solomon and he says um they're both saying it's my child and he has to judge which child it is and he goes uh okay so we can't decide so we're going to cut the baby in half you can have half each
And, of course, the real mother says, no, no, don't do that. She can have the child. And so King Solomon says, okay, so obviously you're the mother. You can have the baby. Now, think about the other... The woman. The woman who's prepared to have this baby murdered because she was grieving and angry about her having lost her own child. She's prepared to have not only this baby... destroyed, but the pain it would cause for the other mother. And that is, I think, the spirit of Cain. Life is unfair.
life is suffering. That's the universal. And so when you see other people happy, you can be jealous. And everyone feels jealousy to some degree, maybe some a lot more than others. And a lot of the spirit of socialism is, I'd rather... that we all have nothing, then you have something and I have a little bit more. I guess a lot of it comes down to, would you rather have inequality?
but less poverty or poverty and less inequality. And I think humans, unfortunately, are wired evolutionarily to prefer both people to do worse, providing there's less inequality. Except that in America, I just don't feel that. In America, you go there and it's like, good for you, man. Yeah. Well done. But you have to work on that. I don't think that's natural.
I think that is, from studies I've seen on children, you see children, they've got a biscuit or a cookie, if Americans are listening, they've got a cookie and the other kid's got a cookie or whatever. But if the other kid has two cookies and they've got one... then they're not happy anymore. They would rather neither of them has a cookie. And that's human psychology. So I think it's something that we all feel.
I think we need to move away from that shame, because I have that shame. I'm sure you've done on YouTube or whatever we're trying to do, whatever listeners, whatever they do in their career, where they've seen a friend or a family member, and they've had that pang of, oh, is that bitterness inside me? need to not go, oh, now I feel ashamed for feeling bitter. I can't control that. I'm a human being. I felt that bitterness. I'm wired that way. But what I can do is...
try to override that and go, no, that's silly. I'm not angry at myself. I had that feeling. That's silly. I'm going to try and make sure we both succeed. And that takes a willingness and a philosophy that's been embedded in American society that we simply do not have in the UK. I mean, to be fair to young people who are leaning towards socialism, they...
Young people have been screwed in this country. The average age of buying or getting on the property ladder is shot up. And as a consequence, the average age of having your first child has shot up. And now many people are just not having children. The economic system we have had has failed. But the answer to that isn't socialism. That's like sort of saying to cure a toothache, you need a lobotomy. I mean, it's insanity.
But there needs to be a serious chat about economics and the current tax system. We need a big overhaul of what's going on. that's a conversation for another day, I think. What do you think about Farage distancing himself from Tommy Robinson? Because that's caused a lot of division in reform. I think that Farage did...
has always had the same line on Tommy Robinson. And he was right to stick by his principles on that. He's also said, I mean, look, there's a lot been said on this issue. He also... I think nodded to the fact that Tommy Robinson's journalistic work and exposing the grooming gangs, I think he said something positive about that. And before Elon Musk, no individual had brought more to the...
attention to the issue of the rape gangs than Tommy Robinson. I guess the issue of Tommy Robinson... there's an uncomfortable truth for both sides the people who think he's a saint and the people who think he's a devil and the uncomfortable truth for um the people who think he's he's a saint is that he's got a long history of criminal convictions, violent assaults, hooliganism, contempt of court, mortgage fraud, identity fraud. The people, the uncomfortable truth for those who think he's...
a demon is that he has brought more attention to the great gangs than any other individual. And none of the crimes that he's committed are nearly as bad as the horrendous crimes of... the rape gangs um when it comes to reform you can't uh he's trying to run a political party and
It wouldn't make sense for Tommy Robinson to be a part of that. What do you think? I change my mind every day and I find it really difficult. I watched a little clip where Piers Morgan was almost berating Jordan Peterson. about Tommy Robinson and suggesting you've not done your research on this man, because Jordan had interviewed him twice, and he mentioned the various crimes that Tommy has committed.
And I was thinking, gosh, what would I say in response? Because I went out and spent a weekend with him down in the south of Spain. I listened to your episode. Oh, right. And I had a great time with him. He's very charismatic and he's very intelligent. Yeah. It's a very entertaining listen. Oh, thank you. Yeah, he was really interesting to me. And it was one of those... He's a good storyteller. Very good storyteller and very good... One of those moments where you're sat there going, gosh, I'm...
Just sat talking to Tommy Robinson, which was Voldemort when I was a kid. Anyone who doesn't know Harry Potter, that's the bad person. Hitler. That's the name. That was the worst name you could be, was Tommy Robinson. Here I am sat in his apartment, in his hideaway in Spain.
And I didn't know what to do. We went out. People were draping themselves all over him down on the high street going, Tommy! People would sing, oh, Tommy, Tommy, singing all the songs. They love him. He was a symbol of hope for them. And the whole time I'm going like, well, I'm having a good time. And he seems like an all right. fella. He's not the devil. But yeah, there are those lingering doubts and think, you know, oh gosh.
So I don't know. And I do think maybe Faraj does have to be a bit careful, but people are... But you know, even in your interview with him, he's openly talking about getting into fights and all of that. I know that's him, and I'm not like... Sure, sure. I've got into trouble in my time, but...
you know, it's not appropriate for a political party. Are you fighting? I don't know. I just saw your eyes go, do I want to mention the fight? Your eyes are just going, do I mention the fight? I mean, like, as a kid, maybe I go in fights at school occasionally. Not many. Like physical. Did you not get in finance in school? There was a... When I was at uni, I was walking and this guy was sort of on the street and he goes, oh, you've got a sarnie, right? And I had a...
I had a peanut butter and jam sandwich that I'd made, and it was snowing, and I said, oh, and I didn't know what sarni meant, right? It's northern for sandwich. And I went, oh, yeah, all right. And he was like, oh, give us sarni. And I went, oh, I don't know, mate. And he went, yeah, give us your sarnie. And I went, all right, all right. And I gave him, I said, I'll give you half because I still wanted my half. So I gave him half my sandwich and he threw it on the floor.
And he goes, I don't want your fucking sarnie, mate. And I went, all right, all right. And then he kept walking with me and I was going, oh, okay. And he was sort of like dancing around behind me and there was like a couple of people laughing. And then he just whacked me, fist, like right in the jaw. Yeah, hit me really hard.
when he 19 or 20 all right and i was just what i know i was like oh and i didn't run because if i run he's going to chase me and i didn't want to give him that satisfaction but a bruised jaw for a few days um so that was that when i was 14
I was in Israel on holiday and there were a bunch of kids, I was 13, a bunch of kids who were 15 or something and they came over, we were playing football and they kicked our ball off and they said, you know, get off, we're playing here now. And I went and got their ball and kicked it into the sea. ages away. And I was like, ha. And then this guy looked at me and then he chased me. And I ran for about five minutes. He was chasing and chasing. I got in a shop.
And I was in the shop and I thought, okay, he's not going to hit me in front of all these people. So I turned around and I was catching my breath like, all right, I probably shouldn't. And then he came and went whack again, just whacked me in the face. And I fell on the floor. I think because I thought you're supposed to when you get hit. Anyway, the shop people were nice. They came over and gave me some water. I don't know what water does when you've been here. And that was that.
No wonder you got on so well with Tommy Robinson. And then one time I went to Tommy's house and he whacked me around the face as well. Those were the two times I think. I've never hit anyone. You ever hit anyone? I don't... Maybe in school? I don't remember. You don't even remember that. It must have been quite a few hits then. Maybe. Yeah.
Yeah, maybe. Okay, well, I'll talk to you about it off air afterwards. No, generally, it's not something I thought about for a long time. Look, it's an uncomfortable fact here that... I'm aware all the time of how you and I sound because we're from privileged backgrounds, but I'm also aware that people from working class backgrounds, not all of them, but particularly Tommy Robinson who grew up in boxing areas, he's always part of these fight clubs and things, it is a very different life.
And are we judging him sometimes through our lens? Oh, I think that a lot of people are judging him. And not only that, like, I remember him, his interview on Jordan Peterson's podcast. I didn't know this, but his cousin was a victim of the grooming gangs. And frankly, if anyone came after my family, I don't give a fuck. I'm going to, I will, I would be prepared to come.
I don't know, I'm sure I would be prepared to, I would be so filled with rage if anyone dared do anything like that to anyone in my family. So who am I to judge someone else who would as well? I don't like how working class people in this country are smeared as far right by the Westminster lovey turtleneck twats who go on these circle jerk centrist dad podcasts. And I don't.
It angers me when they write off all of these people. They have no idea what these people have been going through. I think that there's, you know...
Tommy Robinson's a very nuanced conversation and it seems to me that both those who hate him and those who love him are avoiding the nuance of it a little bit. That's a great point, though. I mean, that's a point no one's making. And I think because humans... struggle with uncertainty and we have to go oh he's the worst person ever or he's a hero who's you know and the reality is he's he's a hero who's also done some pretty
pretty shitty stuff over the years, hasn't always done things in a controlled manner, but has had a lot going against him as well that hasn't been necessarily fair. And then it's up to Farage, maybe, if he thinks that's politically going to help or not. Yeah, I mean, I... I just don't understand. Well, I guess that's the reason you're asking the question is because Elon Musk withdrew his support of Farage as leader of reform. Very suddenly, wasn't it? I suppose, I believe over Tommy Robinson.
It seemed that Faraj saying, actually, sorry, I'm going to stick by my principles on this one, enabled Faraj to look like actually he isn't actually influenced by... foreign billionaires. But then Musk was retweeting Farage the next day. Yeah, exactly. He's pretty capricious. It would seem to be the case. I've got another question for you, but where can people obviously find your quite wonderful channel?
You can... I'm on YouTube under my name, Winston Marshall. I'm on Twitter, MrWinMarshall. I've got a substack. It's not nearly as popular as your substack, but it's... If you go down the... Andrew Gold, wormhole. You eventually come to Winston Marshall. It's the other way around. It's winstermarshall.co.uk and I'm on social media, etc. Who's a heretic you admire? I'll say Catherine Burblesing, who we both had on.
our shows and she you know we talk about the the failures of multiculturalism has been one of the themes of this conversation and She is someone who has actually got a working practical model for successful multiculturalism. Those listening who don't know her, she's got this school in Wembley. And she has brought together vast different cultures, but created a sort of meta culture, which is Britishness. It is singing the national anthem. It is allegiance to the Christian British Union flag.
I note Christian there is quite important, but that's maybe another conversation for another day. And despite their upbringing and give them all unity. And I do believe we've talked to. We've skirted over these things in this conversation, but I think that there is a union to have between all the people, all our neighbours in this country. We've got to talk seriously about what it is that unites us all as a country, what it is that unites all Britons.
No one agrees on what it even is to be British or even is to be English. We've got to start having that conversation. Maybe that's what we should discuss next time. Well, Catherine took out her own son from St. Paul's and put him into her Michaela school and he's doing much better. And she... Unbelievable performance. And...
there's no wonder she gets so much shit because she's kind of doing it the traditional way. And obviously the powers that be in labor are doing everything they can to undermine education. She should be a leftist hero. She is making the poorest people and mixed people, every different culture, religion, putting them together and unifying them. That's the moral inversion that we've been talking about. These people who should be heroes are somehow twisted and put upside down.
up down and demonized and vilified and likewise just horrific people perpetrating horrific crimes are deemed as saints. It's like, what has happened to our fucking country? Well, it's because she's a nationalist and she believes in national unity. And in many countries, nationalism is accepted and embraced by the left.
UK, it is absolutely not. That is anathema for the British. I'm so curious about the word nationalist, right? Because if you look it up in the Oxford English Dictionary, I think it even is defined as a negative term. Rather than what it means to, I assume what it means to you, what it means to me is sovereign test. It's kind of, it's not quite patriotism. It's not quite love of country, but it's like the idea that.
a nation should be organised and sovereign. Or something to bind people together. If you are going to try some form of multiculturalism or some form of multi-racism, of course, you need something to bind people who've come from different places. And if you don't have that... What is it? What is the UK? What does it become? It's just an airport. Yeah, that's what it becomes.
On that note, people, please do go follow Winston. I'm going to put all the things in the description. He's one of the best there is and one of the most similar to me. So if you like my stuff, go over to Winston. Hit the like here and keep watching this channel.