Victor Garber on Stage and Screen

This is Alec Baldwin, and you're listening to Here's the Thing from iHeart Radio, dumn my soul.

If you must, let my body turn to dust.

Let him mingle with the ashes of the country.

Let them curse me to help.

Leave it to his story to tell what I did.

I did well, and I did it for my country.

Let them cry dirty to rate emill understand it later. That's Victor Garber performing the Ballad of Booth from the original off Broadway cast recording of Stephen Sondheim's Assassins in nineteen ninety one. Victor Garber is a prolific actor and singer who originated roles in iconic musicals such as Sweeney Todd and Gotspell. You may recognize him as Jack Bristow in the Intrepid TV series Alias, or from his notable roles in Oscar winning films like Titanic, Argo, and Milk.

When I was thirteen or twelve, I went to children's theater at the Grand Theater, which still exists in London, Ontario, and it was like, it's beautiful, built in the early nineteen hundreds. And you know, I played Tom Sawyer when I was like eleven, and it was my first starring role in Boy. I just never stopped. I knew that it was so early that that's what I wanted to do. So I was fortunate and I was in a singing group.

Did you go to Juilliard? Where'd you go?

No?

I never studied. You never studied.

What was saying this the other day that people who

You know, I copied really good actors, but I'm better on the first take. But anyway, yea.

When you're working all the time and the cylinders you're firing all the time, that's when I found it easier to act because I.

Was always those juices were flowing.

And now I don't work that much and when I go to work, I'm literally People don't appreciate this, and you sound like maybe you're the same, which as I stand there, on the first thing, I go, what.

Do you do again? Yeah? What do I do? I don't know what I do? And then you kind of get slowly heated up. Yeah.

Yeah. I haven't done a place since Hello Dolly twenty eighteen.

I saw this article that you did where you talked about you didn't want to sing anymore, you were going to give up singing.

It was painful.

Yeah, and when what was the moment if that, if I can say there was a moment or two where you realize that your voice was changing.

Well, well, you know, Hello Dolly wasn't you know? That role wasn't demanding vocally so much. Although A Penny in My Pocket is one of the trickiest, most difficult songs that seems like it shouldn't be, but it's really a hard song to sing. And I finally, the last day, last performance was the only time I felt like I had gotten where I wanted to be. And it's because if you don't really work on your voice every day,

Chardina in that. Well.

I got him that job because I was cast in the movie David Green. I played Jesus with David Green, and he one day called me and said, I'm now going to ask you to play another impossible part. You play Jesus, and now I want you to play Liberaci. That's that's too and I I will do it only

Well let me then I won't talk about your current singing career. Because there is none. And we'll talk about your former singing career where I'm massively a massive singing Well, no, listen, So you originated the role in Assassins, you do.

We're in the first production of Assassins.

So in a world that you and I both I'm sure would recognize, is you know that just all the

Yeah, and sometime someunheim is why I came to New York. When I was a kid in Toronto, I heard Anyone Can Whistle, the first actual musical he wrote, well, he wrote the music and lyrics for and I used to play that to death, and we talked about this, and I'd actually written about it. It was like a siren call. That music and that sensibility was what brought me to New York. And then I ended up in Sweeney Todd.

Who were your cohorts and Sweeney Todd.

Of Angela Lansbury and Lenn carry you now of course it was the original company, the original company. Yeah, so it's hard for me to you know, I see see, and there's been some wonderful productions, but nothing. I remember watching them from the wings every night singing you have a Little Priest, which is one of the sometimes masterpieces. And it will never be ever ever be done like that. Well, of course it won't because they were themselves. But it's

Yeah, But when you go on to do Assassin's I keep focusing on that because I can compare two productions. I've seen Sweeney with different people. I love the movie that Tim did I did yeah, and I know a lot of people didn't care for.

It, you know, I really thought it was good.

The best thing Johnny deb Ever did Yes and did the barber scene that they do with Sasha Baron.

Oh my god. I really love that movie. My daughter Ireland and I my older daughter would watch that all the time. But it was something.

But when I saw you do that and you sing that song, and that's when I fell in love with you.

I would watch that show with you.

Then there's the benefit you did with Patrick Cassidy first.

As Carnegie Hall. Yeah, you did a concert for that was that was well, we just sang that song. It was a Songheim, yes good ellis it was like a tribute. Is a song Sondheim tribute And they asked us to do that, and I'll never forget it because I've never been I've never been more nervous in my life. I mean, I you know, Carnegie Hall, and some for some reason I was able to, I guess, just disassociate from the experience and just be in the moment. And I've never

Into something like that with armed with that crowds. Yeah, people who they have the highest expectations, quite frankly, and so did we you included, Yeah, when it doesn't, do you smell it a mile away? Do you guys are going along, You're going, I don't know what. You're on a phone with your friend and it doesn't, I don't know.

Well, it was Nathan and I. We were that's just the two of us. I mean, we were sort of the main characters. So we were always like I don't I'm not sure.

I mean, and I don't want to.

You know. It was a combination of personalities and of creatives, you know, the side of it that weren't really working together as one would hope. And also I think the concept was kind of a misfire. I think it was they wanted to do it as this kind of Crosby Hope road show kind of thing, and it was much too dark and complicated, so that it never really gelled. And I don't know what it ended up being because I never saw it. But again, you guys were gone and went on with that.

Yeah.

No, it was many many versions.

Of that show. Then who eventually opened, Well, they didn't do a Broadway they didn't.

No, No, it wasn't on Broadway. It was it sort of toured around.

Now people list you in Wikipedia or these really comment sights. This show was Canadian actor. Do you can view yourself as a Canadian actor? Do Canadians have to have it in there for their cred?

Yeah?

Yeah, I mean but I've just been you know, I'm about to get the Order of Canada, so I have.

To well you careful. So I heard the Canadian actors this show.

I normally wear my pin, yeah, jacket, your blazer, Marty Short, Eugene Levy, Paul Schaeffer, and I finally got mine and it was it's it's it's a great honor. It's sort of as big as you can get in Canada. It's

Yeah, okay, you did two Shakespearean actors.

I did with Brian Bedford.

Oh my god.

When I saw you do that, you put a spell on me. I'm not just as an actor, you put a spell on me. So I've tried to do that play so many times and everybody said the same thing. After you guys did it, you don't see it in New York anymore. Why there's a big cast, many people, a lot of people. Ryan and I talked about this even then, that it should be a movie. And it was a life changing experience for me because I'd never really done Shakespeare, and now I'm suddenly doing all these

And the story is so.

It's one eight story.

The biggest riode in New York in the highest death toll from a public ride and history up to that point, one hundred and forty people I think died or something.

Yeah, it was you in Bedford.

He was really great to work with. He really liked me and so he he was very generous with me. And also we had very little to do on stage to get yes. So that was probably the best thing because I could have gone very right.

I like to act alone. Well, I like you over there. Yeah, yeah, I'm here, and I'm just fine on my own.

He was remarkable and I loved doing that play.

I loved doing it.

But it's really hard, and I loved you in that play and that storyline when the boy wants to come with you, the young man come with you.

It's such a compelling story and and also it could be so beautiful to look at.

So once you come to New York, what year is that?

It was in the seventies to do the movie of Godspell early seventies and then stay, well, you know, I had to get a green card. I knew that I always wanted to be on Broadway. That's that was always my dream, and to work with Somendheim, and so I actually worked illegally for a while because I didn't have a Social Security number, but I do now I've had a long time. I was just I had to live in New York City. The first job I did in New York was at the original Roundabout Theater, which was

It was still you know this, so the Roundabout is somewhere else, but that's what's what's the theater there?

Now it's not, it's gone. They Titanique was when it was a couple of years ago when they when they opened it before they moved to I think it's Darryl Roth's Theater or one of those theaters I remember seeing there on Union Square. Union Square, Yeah, but before that, the first place they did. It was the first job I ever had with Beatrice straight who you probably won't, do you remember Beatrice Strets I do.

Yes.

She wanted to, you know, an as for a seven minute scene in Network, and she was a very oh wealthy. That's the word. She was from a very famous family in England. They had a very fancy school over there. She was the most generous and kind of maternal. She was a fantastic woman and she took care of me. And I played Oswald and she played mother Mother. Give me the Sun and that changed my life. I got a Theater World Award. That was the beginning of everything

Once you have a beach head here and you're doing plays here, how quickly after that, like by what year do you pivot where you're making more films and TV?

No movie, there was not a steady climb at all. I mean the first movie I did, Paul Schrader cast me in a movie called Light Sleeper, which came out of the book and Susan. Yeah, it's a really good movie. And he is a drug dealer, Yes, he's a Swiss drug dealer. And you know, like, who else but me to play that role. It's a Swiss touch and drug dealing, it's it's I don't come through them though exactly how I spoke that I was young. I was young, but I didn't really get movies were late in my life.

But the thing is is that like when you before Alias obviously and after Alias, you know, when you have success, you're as long as you're successful, you're welcome out there. They all want you to come. Did you shoot Alias in the La Yes?

Well, JJ Abrams you know, changed my life. You for that show, because that was how he saw me in that role. Was still I'm not sure how he did, but it worked. And Ron Rifkin, you know, two people, and we were both spies and we both were pinching ourselves that we were a part of this, and uh, you know, everything changed after that, but it was never I always felt like I was not really a.

Part of the movie world.

You felt that way, yeah, you know, I mean my friends, you know, Bill Hurt and Kevin Klein, and you know, because and they were straight and I wasn't. And I think that was a great you think so oh, I know so really yeah, so you know.

And it was without getting into great detail. It was conveyed to you by other people's behavior, posture, tonality, like you around people who they weren't.

Well, just that I wasn't being seen for roles that I could have been seen. Yes, you know, I may not have gotten. Ironically, the one show that I the movie that I was up for and nearly got was The World according to garb Right and John Lithgal me and a wonderful actor oddly enough too straight man and

Now, Abrams, there was none of that he wanted you, and that was I.

He didn't really give a shit about no.

He just he saw something in me, and I had it. You know, I didn't know I could do it, honestly.

Well, I mean, I think anything with the guy smart and handsome and charming and urbane is in your field of gravity. But so she becomes a big star on that show, Jennifer and Jennifer. Jennifer Garner is that's her big breakout thing is doing what was the character name against Sidney Sydney, Sidney Bristol, Sidney Bristow. And nothing was more fun than watching Jennifer Garner and some karate tights kicking the shit out of somebody or whatever.

She was to use.

Masterful, I mean that change television, that show, I know, in what way do you well? Because there was nothing like it ever ever? I mean that that pilot is considered one of the great pilots. It's actually worth seeing

You know. Well, I never live out there.

What happened exactly is what you're saying. I did two more pilots. They were interesting, not quite good enough, obviously. The one I did love was Eli Stone. Greg Borlante did and that was That was the first, I think the first series that included music because Johnny Lee Miller played he had an aneurysm and he would go into a fit and everything would be sung. And George Michael was actually on that show. It's actually, it's actually worth seeing.

Actor and singer Victor Garber. If you enjoy conversations about acting in musical theater, check out my episode with Richard Kind.

I know I should be much wealthier. I do everything. I have said this before. I am the costco of acting. I come a quantity and I come cheap. And that's why the toilet paper like toilet paper. Yes, instead of buying twelve rolls at the CBS, you got twenty six for the same price. Yes, that's me.

To hear more of my conversation with Richard Kind, go to Here's Thething dot org. After the break, Victor Garber

People didn't like it. It was very you know, we were all waving flag. Well I wasn't. I forget what was going on, but it was all, you know, you know, make America great. It was the New York Theater Workshop, but we were the off Broadway. We were the original production. O god, there's an album to prove it. The first time I heard that music thought, how does anyone create this? This is the just has never been certainly in the modern world. I mean there's just no one ever before since.

What I loved about this is what you've always had in these roles you've played in the theater, whether you're.

Singing or not.

Is great acting inside the singing. Oh thank you, I say to people. You've got to be able to try to do both. So someone said to me, oh, New York City Ballet and American Ballet theater. The someone said to me, well, one is there the better dancers and the other are the better actors. You don't see both, right, So my not insistence, but my panchamp for the man or woman that can sing an act inside the musical theater has always been and you've been always like one

It's not some you know, other kind of thing.

You know.

I honestly thank you. It means a lot to hear you say that. But I don't understand how you can't do it if you don't try to be real. You feel that what's going on emotionally, that's what makes it resonate to an audience, and that's God given. I never thought about it, you know, I never thought, how do I act this song? I just lived the moment that I was in and I happen to be singing. It's really simple. But I'm you know, I go to the theater a lot, and I'm not going to drop and

You know, it's that that it takes.

To really embody because we're all of us are so complicated. People are complicated, and we go through so many in a day, so many moods and changes, and you have to be able to facilitate that on a stage. I just went to see Peter Gallagher and his plane.

What is he doing?

He's doing a left on tenth. It's it's charming play that that Susan Stroman directed. And we were talking about it and he's he's really good and he you know, I've known him the whole life. I've known Peter Gallagher. I was saying, my god, I just he said, you're so great. And he said, and I said, I don't know if I could do this.

He said, it's a chose a week.

I said, I know, that's what I'm saying.

I don't know if I can do it.

He said every he and I thought, and he reminded me why I don't think I really want to do that.

I can't really so much.

I mean, I want to do it and I will, but I couldn't do it so much because of my kids, like to have not seen my kids five nights out of the week, Monday, year off, Sunday night.

Are you only have you do eight?

She was a week, one night off, one night.

Now, you didn't study, You did not have a professional training. And would you recommend people get some of that training somehow or you don't think it's necessary?

Oh no, I definitely think you. I just I wasn't able to find the people to I mean, you know, Joan Later, who's my singing teacher. She got me through more. Joan Later, the great Dame Joan She got me through a lot of things in my early years, as you know, because she and she talks and she's she's an actor's you know, teacher. She loves that. But no, I know, I think you do whatever you need to do to feel like you know what you're doing on the stage,

I tell people learn to sing. So when you're young, when you're training, I said, go and take as much voice as you can movement. I said, you're cutting yourself off from half the business. And I'll never forget Boyd Gains, who I did a movie, but he had a small part of the movie I did.

And I love Boyd Dames.

And when he did Contacted, like I could be memory, and I go seem I'm sitting going, oh my god, look at this guy, this guy who's always been a wonderful stage actor and worked in film and television, but like this is like his defining moment to play that guy who was seeking some release and some freedom in his life by dancing, you know, and enjoying himself. I watched Boyd Gains in Contact. I almost died. I thought,

Yeah.

Maury Yeston gets me at a party, mister Baldwin, do you sing? And I said, no, I don't sing. I said, it's I go to prison if I sang. And he says, mister Baldwin, nonsense, he said. I said to Dustin Huffman, he said the same thing to me, and I said, sing, Yankee Doodle Dandy in the style of Jimmy Duranty, and dropping goes, I'm a Yankee doodle and he goes sing the Star Spangled Banner in the voice of Louis Armstrong. Oh see, can you see? And he goes, you see,

And I'm gonna do that when I get home today. See if I can hit those notes. Oh my god, it's a great idea. I'll just pretend I'm someone else.

But this idea of me wanting to sing, I have the soul of a singer. It's the same with you. You do impersonations. I'm not that good at that either, But the point is whatever ear you have for that, that's the same music and impersonation sound. It's told a sound in your skull. And I look at people, I say, learn how to sing.

Yeah, it's invaluable. And it also opens areas of your body and your head. And I think it's really healthy. I think it's really healthy to sing.

Here's the power of that kind of performance, A clear, unfettered, unvarnished piece of your soul coming out.

You know what.

The first show I saw on Broadway was Shenandoah with John.

Con Oh wow, I never, I never.

I was a kid.

Wow, and we know a school trip and John Collin Glen and goes, listen here Land is Anderson land by.

The sweat up my bra and he's singing the song.

And I'm going, oh my god, look at this fucking guy.

He's standing in front of you.

He's so many feet away from you, and he's doing that in front of you and laying himself bare and put himself out there. And I was like fifteen or sixteen years old, and I was like, wow, that looks hard. It looks like work. You have to learn how to do something. And it wasn't until years later that I started to saying to myself acting is hard to do it.

Well, yes, that's what I was whining about it a few minutes ago. It's harder than you think, right, and you have to work harder than you think. I saw Len carry you in a Little Night Music before I worked with him, before I knew him. I was with my mom, Glynnis Johns was that was my first Sondheim Live show that I'd ever seen, and I was young, and Len carry you blew my socks off because that guy, it was a singer who everything that he sang was coming from an organic place, and you were it was

I worship him. Victor Garber.

If you're enjoying this conversation, tell a friend and be sure to follow Here's the Thing on the iHeartRadio app, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. When we come back. Victor Garber details the changes seen over his time in show business and how increasingly difficult it is to find good material. I'm Alec Baldwin and you were listening to Here's the Thing. Victor Garber has been a working actor for over fifty years. Of course, over that period of time,

Yeah, I mean, listen, I haven't done anything for you know, I was doing a series in Canada for four years. It was actually quite well written and it was you know, you know, but it was a weekly show. But I do have to say, we've been watching Say Nothing, which.

Is the IRA one. Yeah, it's it's I've heard a lot of people say it is.

Yes, you know, you have to have the subtitles so because they talk so fast.

Yeah, and it's really hard to have some titles on everything. Now I do too.

Yeah, it's Say Nothing is I think one of the best things I've seen on TV.

And did you see disclaimer? No? I like, who's that? Who's doing that? Kevin Klein Okevin TV?

No. I watched the first back on the screen. Yeah, and he was great. Yeah. I meant, yes, I want to watch that.

Yeah, I remember, were really wonderful. Sasha Baron Cohen, Yes, really great.

Count her name le Nvil. Yeah.

Yeah, I'm one of those people who I mean, I'm not ashamed to admit this.

I mean I was crying when The Crown was over. I love that. Going to watch The Crown for the next ten years I wanted. I wanted fifteen seasons of the Crowd. I really did all right.

My last question for you is when you have an evening, I mean that doesn't involve friends and the socializing with all of your echelon of friends and this business you've been you've conquered so well and so beautifully over the years.

What's entertainment for you that you like?

Ballet, theater, symphony, music concerts or you don't really it's mostly theater and film.

Yeah, we have a great movie theater in sech Harper and we go watch movies there. It's a beautiful theater and they've renovated er Official and April they've saved our town. So we do go to the movies, and we do try to watch a lot of you know, our friends in shows you know we had which we we love to watch our friends. We went to see the Hills of California the other day. I think it's one of the better plays I've ever seen. I think it's fantastic.

So I recommend that one.

Well, you say that you don't want to do a play again, and I want to say to you, I want to inform you right now that that decision might not be left to you alone. Actually you may. We may pass a law in Congress.

If you don't get there and do it, or if I don't get a scisions Jai, if you don't get you had an early career with a Folk Bent oh, nineteen sixties Folk Bent. Oh. Yes, we were on the Ansult. The sugar Shop is what you're referring to?

Is that what it's called?

The sugar shop? Yes, shoppe? Of course, of course, don't forget the e. Canadian a double pe. We were a Canadian group that became successful for singing a Canadian song for the centennial, and it was like a Mama's and Papa's version because we were obsessed with the mamas of I was with my friend Peter and I and we started this group and he was really talented at arranging and we had really good singers, me and two women and Peter play the piano and did the arrangements, and

Now the trigger.

Shops, save the Country shave.

You're like Eric Carmon.

Oh, don't say that.

The hair, the hair of your hair. I was like nineteen the breaking wave on the ocean.

Your hair so with the foam in it, and you're just so sexy. And look at your wearing that you look like you're in Dukes of Hazzard.

I went to the East village and got a chain link vest, and God only knows whatever happened to that.

I have loved you as a performer, and you're always the most gracious person in the world.

You have always been so kind to me. Olt. I remember when we started. We actually were tested for a pilot, the same pilot in la and I remember you walked through the room and you were so nice, and I thought, boy, that is the handsomest man I've ever seen him. I did, I remember distinctly, and neither of us got the role. But I remember you were always so kind to me. So I'm grateful to that.

My love to you, Love to you, actor and performer, Victor Garber. I'll leave you with a little more of the Sugar Shop performing Save the Country live on The Ed Sullivan Show in nineteen sixty nine, I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's the thing is brought to you by iHeart Radio