The Oscars Series, Day 4: Spike Lee

audience at this year's Trebeca Film Festival. The deal was we would each engage the other in a discussion about one of our favorite movies of all time. Just listing Spike Lee's films should be enough to establish his place as one of the deans of American movie making. Do the Right Thing, Malcolm X, Jungle Fever, She's gotta of It. They defined what it means to be black in America

and help Spike smash through Hollywood's racial glass ceiling. And he's still at it with this year's festival favorite, Black Klansmen, in which I make an appearance alongside stars John David Washington and Adam Driver and now our conversation at Spring Studios in New York as part of the Rebeca Film Festival. We didn't rehearse any of this. First of all, let me just explain to you what a pain in the acid is. To get him on the phone. It is so painful. Pull him and text him and text him

really sunny. He calls me back like six music. What's up? If I see a number on my phone, I don't know the number, I don't pick up and he has four numbers. Tell me. I mean what I want to know first is because I think this is helps you know, these kinds of origins help us understand this kind of

film appreciation. What was movie going in your life when you were young, when you were a child, tell us where you grew up, what kind of household you grew up in, and what was the whole TV movie dynamic in terms of your consumption of that kind of stuff when you were a child. I even I never knew that you could even make a film growing up. I

grew up in the Republic of Brooklyn. We were the first black family to move into cobble Hill, which is a predominant town in American Navy because cobbles right by the docks, and the docks were Italian American, and uh, we got called nigga a couple of times first week. But once my friends sold them, weren't a hundred of other black families moved in behind me. Then we were

just cool after that. So none after that, and then we my mother decide we gotta stop paying rents, so we bought a brown still a fourth Green, for forty five thousand dollars. They go for four million. Now what

year was up? Sixty eight? My father grew up in four Queen on St. James's Place in Fulton's So I remember you now you're a pain in the ask then too, I couldn't get you on the phone back in sixty eight either you were in four Green and sixty eight because white flight had happened by then, people will move to Long Island. But what's the first movie you saw on the big screen? The first movie I can remember, my mother took me to see really quick. My father

hated movies, but he loves sports. I got my love of sports from my father. My mother loves movies, but my since my father hated movies, I was my mother's movie date. The first film I can remember my mother took my late mother take me to. She took me for Eastern Sunday raistic musical. So Bye Bye Birdie. And here's the thing though, that film impact me so much I even know it. The opening credit sequence will do the right thing, Rosie pres dancing. That came from Bye

Bye Birdie and Margaret. That's where it came from. And I mustn't. I must have been like seven eight years old, but it just came out of nowhere? Did I mean? This is a cliche, I guess, But did that do something to you the first time you saw a movie on a big screen? Did you sit there and go yeah? But I didn't want them. It's not like at that moment, but it was not who who? Who makes a movie?

So growing up, I wanted to play a second base for New York Mets, but genetics conspired against that happening. That's where I changed over to the Yankees. But anyway, I want to to be a porn star, but against that too, So I'm I grew up wanted to be a filmmaker. But I remember my mother taking me to see uh Main Streets when Bunny and Clyde came out. I said, can I go? She said, I'm not taking you.

I went to see Buying Clyde. I had nightmares for two weeks because I mean, up to that point there was never violent shown like that, and that that shook me for two weeks was groundbreaking the Penn. But the reason why I chose On the Ward from besides is one of the greatest films ever, is because I became very friendly with Bud Schilberg, the great Great Bud Show. I called him up. You know, back then, you called people up. I called Stanly Dining up, Colcazan up. You

get people on the phone. People don't realize how much that happens in this business. And you know, I was a young filmmaker, so you know. And and in fact, I called Billy Waller up. He said, come on over. And Craig and I had anything my go at people. I got my posters too, So I got my postes, you know, just the the sign but both But But and I we worked on the script together, and but lived to be ninety four or five. But when he was ninety we wrote a script together called Say's Joe

Lewis about this relationship. Between Joe Louis and Max Schmollen and his in In the last two years of life. He would call me every week and say, Spike, did you get the money yet? Did you get the money yet? Because I had promised him that I was gonna make this film before we passed. I'm gonna make that promise happen. But we just couldn't get together up. But it's amazing as an epic has Hitler Girl Rules f dr on the Roosevelt, lenel Horn, Joe Louis, Max s mellon Shore,

the Ray Robinson. I mean, it's it's uh, let me get it done one day. You know. I'm missing now when you when you talk about it in the same as in my life where I would watch movies and I thought that movie stars were harvested on another planet and they flew them down here or something, you know. I I the idea that myself or anybody like me could get into the movie business was just absurd, you know to me. And when did that change for you?

Meaning when did moviemaking become a direction that you wanted to set sailing? Oh? When I went to college and went to Morouse College in Atlanta, Georgia and my first two years the house. My first two years, I was the C plus D minor student. What was your major? I didn't have a major at that point, and so before second semester ended, the ended. In my souphomayen, it's

trying to go back to New York. But if some of my advisor told him we had to choose a major when I come back in the fall, And I said why and my advisors said, because you have exhausted all your electives. So I came back to New York and it was a summer ninth. There was an infamous summer nineteen seventy seven. The Yankees won the World Series. The first summer disco heat was horrible. Therefore you had the blackout and you had David Berker. It's not the

stand so it's amazing. Many minutes later I wrote the Corona Script with the Michael Creole and Victor Clochio called the Summer sam But anyway, New York City was broke that summer. There's a famous Daily News front page forward to New York dropped dead. There you go. You up to that point, if you had your workers permit, you get the job doing something. But there were no jobs in New York City and I and I didn't want to spend the whole summer playing strata matic baseball on

my stoop. So as a still my friend today. Her name is if you had to Johnston. She was very smart. She if you go to Stifers and you had to be smart. The test for New York City was Brooklyn Tech, Science and Stuyverson. Brooklyn Tech was it might down the block for me here science and stops. She got in the I mean she was smart. So one day and I swear my mother's grave this this was not a mistake. I was sitting on my stoop nothing to do, and the spirit told me and got cit Vieta. So I

went to her house. She lived at University Towers on Waverley, No, Willoughby, and uh will it will it be in Asheville Cross Street from l I U. So she's studying, I mean she's studying the whole summer. And so there's a box in the corner of the room. And I said, what's that. She said, that's a super eight camera. You can have it. I said, was another box? She said, that's the stupid that's the cartridge of the super eight that goes into the thing says you can have it. I'm gonna be

a doctor, so I don't need this. She is a doctor now. She went to Princeton undergrad and with the halready med school. So that was not a mistake for me to go VI at his house that day. So now it had so now there's something to do. So I spent the whole summer not trying to be a filmmaker, but just shooting stuff. So I shot the Blackout. It was the first summer discos. Every weekend there's a block part in DJs will hook them their turntables and speakers to the thing and then uh, it was just a

crazy him. So I came back to school in the fall and declared my major's being a mask municse is a major. Now more House didn't have that major, so I so I took mastercations across the street at Clark College. So you had Spellman, Morehouse, Clark College, Atlanta University, and Morris Brown these all black institutions really in the same

mary in Atlanta. And there's a teacher. There's there's a professor, his name is Dr Herbiker Burger, still teaching there and I told him I had this film I just shot from footage. I don't know what to do with. They said, you make up feel with it, so mass much case is quickly with film, TV, journalism and broadcast, and he said, make a documentary. To make a documentary of the film. The film end up being called Last House in Brooklyn.

I worked all semester on it, and then many times when he had he had the key to the film lab, and twice a week he would stay extra. So I guess spent another four hours edited and he wasn't getting paid for it either. Extra. Why do you think he did that? He saw some mammy I didn't see right. What did he see in you that you didn't see? I don't know. I never asked him that teaches are so important. I mean, I think you're going to somebody

giving you a hand. Explain that, by the way, because I mean, I don't want to just kiss your butt here all day, all night long, but because that's very easy to do. I mean, let's listen, I'm gonna get I don't wanna get emotional here. But like in this business, there's just something. I mean, you look at people who are talented, and you really, it just it humbles you, it quiets you. You know, this man is one of the greatest movie makers of the last fifty or seventy

five years. In this kind thank you, thank you, expends one of the greatest filmmakers alive. Thank you ever. And so when you that mentorship thing, to explain it people, which even was news to me up until recently. You don't guest teach. You're on the faculty. You teacher course every year for how many years now going on five team years. I'm a tenure film professor. You're gonna get a paid check man, fantastic, No, he had paid now. But the thing is that both my children went to

n y U, so that tuition ain't no joke. But my mother was a teacher, my late mother, she taught us Saint Ann's and broken heights on the legendary seven balls. None of my grandmother taught My grandmother's grandma was a slave. Yes, she graduated from Spellman. My mother, my mother graduated from Spellman, My grandmother graduated Spellman, my father and grand my father and grandfather graduated from Warhouse. My father's a freshman Dr Market came was a senior Martin became the third and

our classmates the class seventy nine. But my grandmother taught art the fifty years in Atlanta, George and fifty years she never had one white student because of the Jim Crow laws and and and in the South, specifically in Atlanta and the fifty years, white students missed on the great art teacher. And my mother, my grandmother fifty years

saved their social Security checks for grandchildren education. So since that was the first grandchild, she put me through more house and n y U just accumulation of the Social Security checks over fifty years. M and she gave me the seed money for my my thesis film, Joe's bestse Barbershop. We cult head one which wanted student Cammy Ward and a little bit money for us. She's gonna have it the first film. But but even more important than the money, and we gotta go, we gotta talk about the films,

even more important. And here's the thing, though, here's what I say when I when I in public, I always say this, parents kill more dreams than anybody, so just specifically if those dreams that their children have had to do with the arts. So I grew up in a very artistic family. So when I said my tory, but I wanted to be a filmmaker, nobody said, get the funk out of you're crazy. No black filmmakers. You know,

Melvin was not around anymore. I wasn't making films Ozzie Daves, Oscar Show, Oscar Showman Dead for many of me the years. But I only got encouragement. And so often when a child a young adult tells their parents, you know what, what are you gonna make? Dream? Poetry, ballet, dance, photography, whatever it is, they're like now their black parents goes like this, as long as your monkey has as black living in my house? Where am I clothes? Eat my food? We we did. We didn't take out a second more

to go to house. And I mean they got some points, you know, in my house that played out like this. I'm going to GW to study political science. I go up to New York. Long story, but I go my audition for the acting program and I get accepted, and I'm going to go to the n y U Acting program.

And I explained to my parents how it's actually gonna cost less for me to go to n y U, even though it's more expensive school because I requalified for all this New York state based loans and scholarships, region scholarship, things that I forfeited when I went to Washington. So I called my family and I say, I'm gonna leave g W. I'm not gonna go to law school. I'm gonna go to n y U and study acting. And my mother, I means, she screamed like a heart, like

like like Jamie Lee Curtis in a horror movie. She was like. My mother was like, are you out of your insane? She's screaming, and I go, no, no, I go listen. I go, it's gonna cost you guys less money. And my father, let's hear him out. Let's hear him out here about director Spike Lee. He also teaches in the graduate film program at n y U. And when we return, we'll do some analysis on our chosen films.

A place in the sun and on the waterfront. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to here's the thing now, more of my conversation in front of a live audience at the Rebeca Film Festival with director Spike Lee. Your films obviously deal with a lot of themes of racial injustice and so forth and struggle are themes that are in your own films? Are they in Waterfront as well? Yeah?

Amazon Anderson Cooper. When this whole thing was Happenel Kaepernick and I watched on a Ward from again for the million times, and the stuff that Nick was saying with the same stuff that did. Marlon Brando was saying, I want my rights. And you can see the mob who's an NFL owner, because you have when you have the shape up. He had the things that guy was giving out and here here's the motherfucker here in the scene to get under work the guy, the steward, whatever he

has to give you, like a coin. And so after Marlon Brando, Terry Malloyd testifies against Lee J. Cobb friend Johnny Friendly, he he says, fuck it, I'm going back to work. So we standing there and they're giving out a coin to everybody, and then there's nobody there and there's some rummy, some bump who's has his hands over there and he put in it's so I'm saying, the NFL, these motherfucker's higher montherfucking quarterbacks who were horrible. So what

they did the TERMINI they were doing the Kaepernick. They were I don't want to say the guy's name. The guy had retired Chicago Bears quarterback. Go ahead say his name here. They took him my retirement, gave him a ten million dollar contract. He was horrible, and Kaepernick still can't get a job. So it was amazing. I mean, but Schilberg was a visionary, and when I saw what they were doing, the term malloy was the same thing

that was doing the Kaepernick. I think that there's a lot of legend and lore about that film, and you know, these stories of everybody's heard a million times about Brando doesn't do the off camera for Er and all that crap, and you know, all that stuff which is not that important is the movie about because ends mea culpa for you know, ratting him. I'm glad what I've done to you, John Friendly, I'm gonna keep on doing it, he says, you know, you know that that no apologies for that.

But for me, it's like, uh, you know, Brandon was someone who was did you know, Yeah, I met Brandon one time. I was gonna do I was in this wheel of my life where c you know, CBS was gonna pay people big money to do these m ow's the old m o W we're gonna do? We did. I did street Car on Broadway, which we wound up doing on uh for TV. No no, no, no, no that, but we do we do a street Car and bro we were on TV. But that was a waste of time.

But they paid everybody a lot of money. But like, why do it from TV when it's in the in the movie? His movie? And so I go see him because they want to do Canton a huntin Roof and they want him to play Big Daddy, but they're not going to insure him. Long story short, as I go to his house, there's a true story. I go to his house up on Mulholland and I go there to beg him to do Cottas and Roof if they will ultimately insure, which they wouldn't. And I mean, I'll do

my my my tepid, brand new impersonation. But I said, uh, I said, uh, you know, I you know one thing led to whatever. I had lunch with her for four hours and I said, uh, uh, you know, I did Streetcar on Broadway. Uh, like it was like six or seven years before. And then yeah, I heard about that

from some friends of mine that you did that. I heard you were very little, not yes, and I heard you were very funny, and I wish I had done more of that because it's a very funny part, and the character of Stanley is very funny, and I wish I had found more of the humor myself. And there's a pause, and I went, but it worked out pretty well for you just to say it, don't you say,

I mean, I mean, I mean it went okay. Don't you think how it went over, you know, in the for the public, and uh, but it's uh, yeah, I met him just that one time. And uh but but you see, he's interesting to me because there's a couple of guys. I mean, I'm gonna talk briefly about it from the actor's standpoint, which which I can't out, but you know, but Sheina was obviously a big beacon for me.

And there's those moments. There's always a moment, uh, you know, John Mandolph was in the hospital and Serprico has got the bullet hole in his face. Uh, and John Mandolf puts the gold Shield on him and he doesn't want the gold Shield to become a detective. And finally he gets it in Macino. Just he erupts into this moment, this momentary sob this gasp of agony for just a

moment of his suffering. And I just thought to myself, this is why I want al maybe want to be an actor as much as anybody, as much as anybody, but Gina was the one that maybe want. He was one of them, you know, Yead dog Day Surprico was one of my favorites. But and Brando to But Brando of course gets into that zone where he doesn't care. You know, he's a prodigy, and he puts all the pieces together when he's twenty four years old. Brando did Street Car and Brodery when it was twenty four. I

did it when I was thirty four. He I never met him. You never did call me up two o'clock in the morning and uh, I'm not gonna do imitational. But he wanted me to do a film about Native Americans. And I've never heard from after that. Well, well, he yeah, and then I found lady. He would call people late, but Tibody got my number and I unbelieve it was him at first. But my favorite line he said to me was I sit in his house and I'm terrified

with him. I'm terrified, terrified. I meet people who are my peers, you know, and my generation of actors, and I admire some of them incredibly, but it's different when you meet Kirk Douglas or Gregory Peck and some of these guys I met. I mean, I was like, I literally pissed my pants when I met Gregory Peck and uh like almost literally and uh um and then I'll never forget. I'm in Brando's house and he said to me, he says, he says, you know, you and I are

like two dogs that are sniffing each other. He said, You're sniffing me and I'm sniffing you. And he said, and oh god, oh god, I hate that. I hate that. He said, So you say whatever you want to say, and I'll say whatever I want to say. I mean, just really, he just didn't want anybody to play him. He hated that, and I mean, and it was, it was. It was an amazing day. I have a day I

spent with him now. Um So in Waterfront. One of the other things I love about this film is that is that you know, Kauzan, having directed in the theater, he knew that you had to set the table with every detail in terms of the acting in their performances

that there was one week link in the chain. I'm talking about Fred Gwynn and I later wanted to play Herman Munster with a small role Lee J. Cobb and one of his greatest roles, one of the great great great actors in history, Lee J. Cob Steiger, great great actor Marie s her Firstrmory sat Of course, I mean the the the acting is superlative from one end to the other. In that cast. It's mind blowing and and and uh two ton Tony Galento. You know it was Bud that got all those xbox boxers in the film

because he knew them. Yeah, I mean just the acting is breathtaking. But also what I what I love is that. Uh also what I love is it it's so nothing on the screen really in terms of set design, in terms of costume it's it literally is the closest I've ever seen to a motion picture that behaves like radio. You only focus on the ideas, You're not thrown them by a lot of pizzazz and a lot of shots and a lot of it's so straight ahead and so honest. You as a filmmaker. When you first saw the film,

what did you think of it as a movie? How you put together a movie? I loved it, and I gotta give love to Lennon Bernstein. Score amazing and for me is one. I know, we gotta get to your your selection. But what it has for one of the most amazing endings in the movie with the score. And they brought in James Wang Hang the great photographer to be in the Roller Skates. Boris Kaufman was the cinematographer. But you said the brought in James Wang How I

didn't know that he did that shot? Wow, that's amazing. Brando's peel vs walking towards the guy and you see everybody goes and stumbles him. Everybody goes in behind him, and they see the gate clothes and you see, uh yeah, called Maldon and you may even recently walk out. I mean that that and a lot of great lines in that movie that uh um. I still quote Brando whenever my wife would say to me, you know, she'd said to me, you know, when are you gonna take me

to dinner or whatever? The line buzz and you know, Brando's got the line in the in the bar with the gun, and he says, it's none of a business. You have to say that line of people like that will not work in the Lee household. Let me tell you that it's none of a business. One of a manuel business Lee. Uh No. Now, now, another person in this film who I thought was that I really was taken by was the art director. You know what I do work, I do on TCM and things like that

where I get into these details. Richard Day, who did the art direction on this film, was nominated. I think I don't have the statistics in front of me. He was nominated for like nine Academy Awards and won many Academy Awards for for a career that spanned from Dark Angel and Dodsworth and dead End in the thirties and how Green was My Value? And then it goes onto street Car and Waterfront in the in the in the fifties, and this guy one Oscar is over the arc of

like a two decades and uh. And of course Letard Bernstein score, which uh you know, the New York Philharmonic has a program that I'm the co producer I called the Art of a Score, which we played the music live to picture, particularly films that have classical repertoire, with Kubrick being the u the ultimate example of that, and showing films like You Went to Science Again very exactly exactly Kubrick, you know two thousand and one, which we're

showing again for the second time next year, Barry Linded and so forth. But we've also played films were to have they just have lush, non classical score. Although Bernstein's part of that world and we showed Waterfront and the Philharmonic played water Front, he didn't like the way he wrote more music than was put in We did it, yeah, so he wasn't happy with the way to now turn out.

We talked about Shelley Winters You Go, You Go. I got is amazing in a Place in the Sun, and when I saw her role, automanty automatically thought about her and Night of the Hunter. It's almost like the same. It's tragic woman that just can't get it right and with the wrong guys, and she got murdered. In both films, here's Cliff gleaming with his beauty and she's gleaming with her beauty. But the acting of Shelley Winters, her performance

is unbelievable in this movie. She's incredible, but there are very few people. You can't shoot two people this close and the famous kissing scene between Montgomery Clift and Elizabeth Taylor. You can't shoot two people that close and hold the camera that close for too long unless you have two perfect looking people. And in this film you have the You have the most beautiful man, or one of them that ever lived in the history of the movies, and the most beautiful woman. I mean, it's it's like a

cinematic like a confection, you know. I mean, in terms of the delight you feel from watching these people. The scene when they meet and he's shooting pool at the party and she walks in, I mean, there's there's there's so much for the eye. There's so much beauty in this film, and just flat out beauty between these two people. And then beyond that is this horrible drama of what happens to him and to Shelley when there's no spoiler alert here, but it's this film. The first time I

ever saw this film, I remember he's on television. I mean a lot of these films I saw on TV because when I was a kid, Channel nine, right there you go. I mean, people, I always say the same tire thing all the time about this. But you know, no HBO, no vs VCRs. When I was a kid, it was Channel eleven, Channel five and Channel uh nine would make licensing agreements with a studio probably haven't been a cycle. Do remember I'm gonna come out a million

dollar movie with the theme from Gama the Wind. So I see this movie on TV. I remember, like, it's not even about sexuality, I don't think, but just kind of sitting there with my mouth up and going, oh my god. You know, I think I'd probably kill Shelley Winters for Elizabeth Taylor too. And that's not a hard choice, but that but that movie doesn't mean you hear you've got the guy though they both played that mean Elizabeth Taylor was a breathtaking actress, and and and and Clift

was it was it was a brilliant actor. And then you see the juxtaposition between Shelly win Is, you know, a lower lower class and you know that sound was really about classism. Even though Montgomery is Eastman, he's like not really part of the real family. So he's trying to get up the ladder. Two, I have to take advantage of you being here for this kind of thing. Now, what do you do when you direct the film? Because they always say that, the directors then and now, it's

always been the same that they cast. Well, you try your best to get who you want for the role. You have a dream cast, and you try to get them in terms of their availability, and there their their their their desire to be in the film, and can you afford them, and so all those things come together, which I want you to speak about for people to understand what an extraordinarily difficult thing that is to do.

I meaning, you're you're gonna make a film, Spike Lee is gonna make a film, and you're gonna have anybody in your films. People are begging to work with you, and sometimes you don't get who you want in the film. True. Well, since we are here at the Tribeca Film Festival, the role of sal I offered to Mr de Niro. Are you want to do it? That son of a bitch? No? I think it's Daniel you got nominated, and I think that, which I mean, I love Bob and I wanted my film,

but the narrow might have tilted. It was meant to be a ensemble piece, do the right thing. Men. You had two tuo. I mean everybody was in it, but no one was really Richard Edson, the Great Ruby, d Ozzy Davis. You no but Sam Sam Samuel Jackson. He was saying back then, g and Carlo, Jean Casposito, Rosie Perez. That's her first film is Mark Lawrence, first film, Robin

Harris first film, The Late Robin Harris. So it's been my experience things happen for the most part the way it should be, because that's not the only time where I wanted someone and I didn't get them and it turned out for the best because I got somebody who just fits better. So and it also like it was like a sports team, you know. I mean one year the Lake's Head like by all stars starting. They were terrible because it was no there's no chemistry and everybody's

gonna be starting. Everybody can't be like it just needs to come together. As interesting. It's interesting because you hear that across the board, you have an ensemble of people and if you change one little thing, it would upset

the now. Now without naming names, because one of my goals into you know, embarrassing anybody but when you make films as a as a director, and your films are dramas, they're they're they're they're acting is at the four you don't do action films and space movies and all this other crap. I'm sorry, I didn't mean that. Um um. What I meant was because we love space movie, let's face. But when you're directing, what is directing performance for you? Now?

Because like you bring these people in, and you bring people who are gonna play at the role when you you assume they're pretty good to go. But what happens when it's not working? How involved are you involved? And like walking up to people, take them aside and go, hey man, this is what I need in the scene. Yeah, but you can't. It has to be done you know, in a whisper. If you do that, I felt you're gonna lose the actor. Even if you take them aside and do it. Know I'm saying it has to be

done private, exactly. I agree with you. Oh no, it should be private, you know. So you really, here's the thing. Don't you try to head that stuff off in rehearsal. You can't be on on the on the day while you're shooting you know hundred people, you know, crew members, and you're discussing the character and the aren't all that stuff. That stuff has to be worked out in rehearsal. But sometimes whether I'm having a bad dare act and having a bad day, things that happen. You're just trying to

go through it. But and make sure that at the end we're done that we talked. So gotta get you, gotta work that ship out so it's squashed, done with and you could continue in good spirits. I'm reminded of my dear, dear friend who passed away, Marvin Worth, you know, Marvin Brutus, Malcolm X. Give me an example. Maybe he's one producers who actually contribute to help you make the

movie you want to make. Well, Marvin, but the rights to the autobiography of Malcolm X, as told by Alex Haley, I mean really really many years ago, and he's been trying to make it. Set lamed a whole bunch of people. One time, Richard Pryor and supposed to play him, and he's he said, he sent me letters saying you want to be involved in film, So I never I never

got the letters. So then I was reading the papers that Denzel Washington was gonna play Malcolm X. He had already done the play a Broadway When Chickens Come, When Chickens Come Home the Roost, and the director was gonna be Norman Jewison. And I said to myself self, hold the funk up. And Norman great director in the heat and the Night. I mean, he's done many, many, five films. And I just began to talk about a little bit.

And then Marvin Worth call me, Sayspike, stop talking. Let's have you and Norman sit down, and so we we met. I mean, this is not a new story, it's all and uh, Norman want to know why I want to do it, and I told him, and he gracefully said, okay. He didn't have to do that. He had the gig. He was a direct he was the one the Marvel Works and also Water Brothers. So I've always had deep respect for Mr Jewis, And because he could have said, fuck you, Spike, I don't care who you are. I'm

directing this film. But there are producers, and this is I guess what my question is, because a lot of people that that's an intangible for a lot of people. What producers do beyond, as they say, bringing a vital element to the table, the script, the star, the money from the studio. They've got the juice with the studio, what have you. But there are producers who have actually have they've helped you make your films. If they've they've continued,

there's no way pause. I've been involved. I was directed Malcolm X without the late great Marvel Worth. I went to a screening. Marvin invited me to a screening, uh at the Academy in uh another DJ but the Academy, you know, one of the great great screening rooms in all of Los Angeles, which is saying a lot. And then we went to that screening of Malcolm X there and uh, I gotta say, it's one of your great films. That's a great, great film, Malcolm xIC all that goes

to Mr Denzel Washington. I know we're talking all the films. I have to just say this real quick because tomorrow let's see Denzel Washington that had the opening of Lifeman coming for three curtain call. It's like a nine play, right, yeah, not that long, but people ask me all the time, you know, we uh, Denzel more better Malcolm X. He got game inside man. So it's been a minute. But Denzel people ask me about his performance. He prepared a year before. He told his agent, don't give me any

more work. Learn to praying Arabic, speaking Arabic, learning to read the Koran, cut out pork, cut out alcohol, because he under Denzel understands that just sounded like somebody or looking like that's just surface. And he and he knew that if he did the job need to be done, that Malcolm's spirit will come into him. I put my hand on a stack of Bibles. There was a scene. All the speeches in the film were Malcolm's words, and there was one speech. I mean, he was killing it,

and I'm looking at him. I got the momit of him looking at Ernest right here, my great sematographer, Ernest Dickinson. So I see that, to see him looking at the sides. And the scene is about the end. Some great called cut and he keeps going, we're shooting film, and he went off another two minutes and finally Ernest that Spike, we ran out. So I woke up to Denzel. He's almost like in a daze. I said, d what was that? So what are you doing? Is it? Spike I don't know.

I can't tell you what I just said. That ship can't happen if you don't prepare for it. He worked a year and and ask anybody was gonna set that day we thought we saw Malcolm. Do you know? You know what I love about that film? Also, it's tough sometimes if you play if the film calls for an actress, a woman to play that role of the wife of the of the you know, it's a supporting role. And uh, what I love was I thought, if Angela Bassett was my wife, nothing I couldn't do either, you know, and

brought it. She was so what Angela Bassett is such a great actress and she's so wonderful on that film. So I understand that we're gonna take some questions. You know, what's up, Spike. My name is Chris. I'm from Virginia, and I just wanted to ask you, what do you think of Black Panther? My brother, I've seen it four times me too. I look at the world now differently before black Panther and not the Black Panther. That that

should change everything, especially for people of color. Now, wait a second, I mean I think in these times, in these modern times where we're trying to all be more sensitive and more inclusive. Don't you want to know what I thought a black panther? I mean, do you want to ask me? Go ahead? Oh, I was actually gonna ask you about Infinity Wars and yeah, my brother, you bought the catsups. You know it was the down. We're

give us the next question. Next question, can you tell us a little bit about your new movie, The Black Klansman and what that's based on. The Black answers are based on the book My Man Hair is in It. Ron Starwarp was the first African American policeman in Carol Springs. He ended up infiltrating the clan. He's reading the paper and the clan put it ad in the paper when we need new members. So Ron Stalward thinks, as the joke, you know it's a Google. So she calls up and

thinking as a joke, he leaves. They don't pick up as a voicemails. He leaves his real name and phone number, and the clan calls it back and said, we want you to come down for interview. So since he's an African American, he can't really show up for the inter of you. So who has to send my man? Is that a Boston Red Sox hat there? Thank you? Row seven twelve? Row seven? That, oh boy? So he has

to get a white police officer play hidden. That's Adam Driver And so we're in official competition that can and it opens August tent so check it out. And who plays the lead. The lead is played by John David Washton, Denzel's eldest son. Denzel's son. You might have seen him in Ballers. We have time for one more, one more, um in the scope of all of your projects, what is the work that has been most transformative and what is the legacy that you hope to leave. She was

actually looking at you. She pretended it was for both of us, but she was looking right at you when she said that it's okay, It's okay, I would say uh. I did a documentary called Full Little Girls, which is about the bombing of the nine Birmingham Church, the six and Street Baptist Church, and Burma Obama. Full of girls were killed. Jacob Hoover and the and FBI knew who did it a week after. One of the guy's name was Donna mind Bob. His nickname was DNA nine Bob

and for many years the case was cold. And before the film opened at the Film Forum, Karen Cooper and a couple of days before the open the FBI called me and they said, want to see the film. The day after the film opened, they reopened that case. After many, many years, they went to trial and it was motherfucker's died in prison. True story they did. They killed murder those full little girls and just went about their lives, you know, and they died. I think I don't know

how many wanted to, but they died in prison. Well, I mean, this is gonna sound corny and sound stupid. When I was on my phone by the way, a moment ago, trying to look up something about him, and my wife, who's here, texted me and said, put your phone down. She literally texted me, she wrote, enough with the phone. My legacy is not really that much about Honestly, I don't really think about the work I do that much. It comes and goes. It's sand castles, you know, I mean,

the ocean comes. It's the moment you have with people. I'm doing the Edge with Tony Hopkins, and he and I would have lunch together and we would do dueling Richard Burton in person Nations together over lunch and I'll never forget that to the day I die. I wanted to work with him and he called me recently I had me comeing to a movie with him, and it was it was really so. I mean it was we did one day. I shot this little thing. I won't give it away, but what a great honor it was

to get good with Norton. I just did a movie with Ed Norton. Ed directed this wonderful movie mother Liss Brooklyn. I'm in this crowd with people I worship, you know, uh Cherry Jones and Connavali and uh Willem to follow him on the set with him going, oh man, this is what it's all about. You know. To me, it's

who you work with. I got to do a good Shepherd with Bob Dinner would walk up to me and uh Matt Damon and he would talk to me, and literally, after like thirty seconds, I would I mean, I couldn't hear him. I went death all the movie starts screaming in my head and he talked to me, give me the direction. I looked at my go I'm sorry because you repeat that. I wasn't listening to a word you said.

Just now, hey, look at me go. You're very good, Alec, very good to be with those people, to be with them, And with that in mind, would you all please join me in thanking our guests. One of the greatest movie makers in history. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. M H. Spike Lee's Black Klansmen will be in theaters August ten. This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing