Ramona Diaz Decodes the Motherland

and the War on truth unquote. A Thousand Cuts follows Ressa and tells a shocking story about the struggle for a free press and the crackdown on news media in the Philippines under President du Terte. It's a chilling movie and a cautionary tale. A Thousand Cuts comes from My Guest Today director Ramona Diaz. Born in the Philippines, Diaz lives in the United States now. She came to the

US for film school at Emerson and Austin. Through her documentaries, Diaz draws deep portraits, and her subjects vary from well known figures like Amelda Marcos to women who have just given birth at Fabella Hospital in Manila, the busiest maternity ward in the world. I first encountered Diaz's work through one of her earlier films, Don't Stop Believing every Man's Journey.

Don't Stop Believing every Man's Journey tells the story of how Journey, Yes, Journey, the band that's created some of the most beloved songs and rock music, needed a new lead singer and ended up finding their singer, Arnell Pinta in the Philippines over YouTube. And this was long before

the pandemic. Here's director Ramona Diaz. I got this email, this crazy email from actually the console who was working at the American Embassy in the Philippines, and it was this crazy email about how are Nell had to sing for his visa. It's a funny an email and I never read these emails, but for some reason, I clicked on that email. I found myself. You know, I'm like, someone has to make this film. So I called my manager in Los Angeles. I said, Peter, oh my god,

you have to read this email. Someone has to make this film. And he gets back to he goes, you gotta do it. I said, no, no, I'm finishing this other film. I don't want to do it, and I don't want to deal with favs speaking fall because I just dealt with Emailda Marcos, who sued me. Actually that's another story. I said, I I don't have the stomach for it. Um and the music rides and stuff. Well, one thing led to the other, and then pretty soon they I was talking to their manager, John Barrett, and

he goes, see, I'll take it to the guys. I said, yeah, you have a great story, but you know, we have to follow him this year. And then maybe, like twenty four hours later, John Barrett calls back and said, you know, they don't think they have a story. Maybe next year. I said, you don't have a story next year, you have a story. This year. I'll make a deal with you.

I said, give me forty eight hours with the band wherever they are, will come fly in, will for forty eight hours, will cut a like s yeah, and proved to them they have a story. So that's what we did. We filmed them, I did an interview with our now and the band together, um and some of that ends up in the film submitted and then Irving as Off saw it, the big manager and his wife, and the wife cried and the wife said, you gotta do this. So that's how it was done. And of course you know,

access is a um, it's a process. And they weren't used to us being backstage or in their private spaces. Uh. And it was explained to me that they came of age pre MTV when those spaces were very sacred, and then MTV sort of broke that open wide open. So now like, of course all the newer bands were so used to people being around and filming, but they weren't, so they were very private. So it took a while.

Don't stop believing. Is of course much of it is said in the Philippines and that you're from the Philippines and you grow up there your entire life. I was one and raised there and came here for college. Now is it fair to say for people who don't know the Philippines, which I don't, that is the Philippines like Canada. And when I say that, I mean the whole country lives in Toronto. The only place with is Manila. Does everybody live in Manila? Is the only place with the

economy never in the rest of the country's terms. Maybe there's another main city down south, simple, but Vanilla eclipses everything. Yes, Like it's like I guess New York, right, or I said Toronto, because every everybody that wants a career and something important, they all go to that's business. Yeah, so you leave there. How did you explain to your parents that you were going to Boston to go to Emerson to learn to make movies? What? What was the goal

back then? Meaning? Were you burning to make films where you just wanted to put your toe in there and take a look and see what that world was long. I wanted to make films, yeah, because I grew up on a diet of local films, local movies, you know, the tours of the eighties and the Philippines Lena Broca and we now Yeah. And also there was an Alliance Frances and a Goody Institute that had German films and French films. So I saw a lot of traffax and

I remember watching Um Day for Night. I was talked like, I want to do that, and then I saw Worth Mueller and um yes all that. It just I wanted to make films. I wanted to make fiction films, and so I left her Emerson. Had you lived in the US before I had visited, you know, the West coast San Francisco, that's where all the Filipinos visit, right, because it's close community, big Filippino community, also Hawaii, but never really the East Coast and never lived in winter, you know.

But that is of course very romantic again for me, because it's something so exotic. My first time, I was like, oh my god, I don't know what I was thinking from the Philippines. I couldn't get up. I couldn't, you know. So I scheduled all my classes after lunch because for the life of me, I couldn't get up. To get your blood flowing. Yeah, it was crazy, but I still loved it, you know. I mean it's different, and Boston

was really I think good for me. Then. It's a small enough but also close to New York and had a lot of friends friends in New York, so I would, you know, drive to New York or takes a train. Yeah, and um, and I was exposed to a lot of theater and films and so it was. It was amazing. You started making films there when you were at Emerson. Yes, so we started making small like, you know, three minute films on sixteen so on film, real real film, yeah,

pre digital. I'm agent, you know, I'm myself yeah, pre digital, it was all like hands on on the steam back, cutting film by hand. You think different, right, you really it's very intentional because when I think you're using video, it's more this water holes approach. You know, you film everything, but with film because it's expensive. You really are like

with cameras exactly, it's a different discipline. Now when you're there, what was your thinking or feelings about making films when you entered the program and how did it change by the time you left. When you leave Emerson, what becomes the plan. The plan was to go to l A. I actually got an internship with MPTM Productions, Mary Tyler More Productions. So it was saying elsewhere Hill Street Blues, Remington's Steel. Now I was gonna ask you you and

what says here? You did Remington Steel for five years? What did you do on Remington's Steels? The writer's assistant? So you were the writer's room of the show. Yes, oh my god. It was like the best job after college. I thought all jobs were like that. Like you went in you could go to the trailers still for breakfast, they serve you lunch, and if you stay after six,

they serve your dinner. Right, my mother visited me in Los Angeles and she opened my refrigerator and all there was was water, bottled water and cigarettes because I used to smoke. Then I don't want anymore. But that is all because I didn't have to buy any groceries. I'm empty. M fed me, and I thought, I love working. This is the best job. For five years. You did the one show, Yes, And then this is what's interesting to me about your timeline. You go back to the Philippines. Yeah,

I was. I think, um, you know, because the revolution happened. Um not, they're gone. They're gone. The dictator was gone. The dictator was all I knew right growing up in the Philippines. And I actually found out more about what they did when I left the Philippines because there was no freedom of the press, and I felt like, wow, things are opening up, their building institutions out there. I want to be part of that. So I did rather be a filmmaker there. Yes, I thought I did, And

I got there and realize that infrastructure wasn't there. I mean the dreams were there, but there was no intentions were there. Yes, But then that's also when I got interested in documentaries because all the stories were happening on the streets, but there was no I didn't have the wearithal I. I don't know how to do it, you know. That's why I left to go back to grad school. I went back to Stanford just to find out. You know, hey, can I do this now? The first film you make

feature length doc is yes? No? No. When you decide to make a film about you know, this legendary figure, do you sit down? Is your process one that involves some writing and some you putting down on paper your thoughts about how am I going to portray email DeMarcus in a way that she hasn't already been portrayed five

times before. Yes, she's a very famous figure. It's reading everything everything about her, about what she's written about herself, writing my own thoughts, because I think my films are always to me, their explorations, and I want people to change my mind, like I wanted her to change my mind about her, right, That's why not so much? Well, in a way that I didn't think she was silly. I think she's very smart. So people dismissed her as being still in naive. Yah, yeah, but she's not. She's

smart with a lot of money and shopping. She's very strategic, she's she's got a good political mind. So I went back and forth for two years. I also had to raise the money. It was my first film. How do you how do you uh, you know, just walk up to the royal palace or her private home and ring the doorbell. How does that connection? My thesis film was about the revolution. It was called Spirits Rising. And I have this crazy notion of also interviewing Mrs Marcus for

that film. And I was there with a student crew and someone suggested, you know, if you want Mrs Marcus, you have to figure out where one of her son is and then corner him and ask him to ask her. And I'm like, okay, I can do that. So I crashed a cocktail party actually, and I asked him. I said, listen, I'm a Stanford student. I'm here for like two weeks. We're filming this thing about the revolution. I really want

your mother's voice in it. And I handed him the letter and he was he a fan of documentary film. Why do you think he did it? I have no idea why he did it. I have no and I lost hope. I'm like, okay, he's never going to get back to me, because he said, oh, that's interesting. Do you think even he had his doubts about his parents legacy? Maybe, but they are there there. They are Marcus children. You know, they're loyal, very loyal. But at the same time, they

wouldn't mind having, you know, another generation. They want more truth. Yes, especially I said, I wanted to hear from her because I had all these other women in the film who were talking from the opposition, and I wanted to hear from inside the palace what was happening. They were about to leave, and the first time you meet her described that where are you? We were invited. So this was

a very very last day ever shoot. I had given up, and then her assistant calls me and says, well, Mrs Marcus can see you for fifteen minutes, but you're not allowed to talk about the revolution. I'm like, that's okay. My films about the revolution, but that's okay fifteen minutes with I'll take it. So she invitses us to her condo in Makati, which is a business capital in the Philippines,

very luxurious, you know, penthouse condo. Um. She invites us in, surrounded by help, yes, her security guards were there, um and I expected to spend fifteen minutes with her, and we spent five hours with her. She was ready to talk, could not stop talking, and then she brought up the revolution, so I felt like, okay, then it's fair game, right, I didn't bring it up. She did five hours, five hours, and at the end of the five hours, you know,

we were filming a movie. Yeah, And I asked, I said, Mrs Marcus, I want to make a film just about you through your point of view. So it was very clear to me that I wanted it from her point of view, her telling her story before you know, whatever she goes. That's a great idea me, you want to and she you know. Then my my idea of her was very much Sunset Boulevard, you know, Norma Desmond and her really wonderful you know, condor in the sky, but really lonely and wanted to tell her story. And that's

why I think she said, yes. She winds up spending a lot of time with her, Yes, a lot, and she was so she had more energy than we did, and we were, of course much younger than her passing out and she's mid story. She would not sleep, I mean, and every morning, bright and early. She was still she was like quafft and put together, Well, we're like that, yes, and she ever were there any moments where that cracked some moments she was very very controlled, very controlled. She

was very aware. She was very good at being a mal DeMarco. Yes, because for twenty years of their life, you know, there when they were in power, camera crew followed her, so she was very used to that. There was one time we were entering a restaurant. She and that she was entering with her, and she pulled me back. She goes, you watch when I enter. There's going to be a lull in the conversation, just a lull, and then it will go because I entered. I said, okay,

miss Marcus, let's observe that. And we entered, and there is there was a law. People sort of acknowledged her and then went on with the life. She goes, it's always been that way. So you, I mean, obviously she doesn't have any rights or approvals or authorities over the film. She relinquished all of that to you. She did. Um and so uh we premiere at Sundance as well in A four and you have a Filipino premiere yes, we Actually it was a very email. There was the very

first documentary that was really theatrically in the Philippines. But um, right before I release in the Philippines, she sued us. She sued my distributors. There was a temporary restraining order and why because she felt like I sullied her good name, an invasion of privacy. But she's a public figure, so the invasion of privacy was thrown out. And selling her good name, well, she said, meld Marca. So that was

really tough. So the movie, I mean, I'm being glid here, but so the movie didn't kiss her ass enough as far as she was concerned. As far as no see, when she first saw it, she was okay with it. She was like, she had some problems. The harshest thing that you say in the film, well she talks. It's all her words. So she talks about the assassination of Theia Kuino and that they had nothing to do with it because if they would have done it, they would have done it in the dark of night, not in

broad daylight. It's like, who does that? So she does? I mean she really she hangs herself basically because she that's Mrs Marcos. So when she first saw the film right before the premier at Sundance, UM had a courtesy screening for her. She had a few problems with it, but she knew she didn't have final cut. Fast forward six months later, we had a theatrical release here in

in the US. So she all the reviewers, of course, you know Times, La Times, Washington Post reviewed the film, and they all called it like a pariah, delusional all that. Suddenly she saw herself through the eyes of the reviewers

and did not like it, so she sued us. In the Philippines, that was the only time where it was thrown out, and we opened so big in the Philippiness half that because what she did was she had like a news conference every day of the trial, and so we so much so that people were saying that we colluded with her to make this like a big, big hit, but we did not. But no, it was thrown out. So when you you get sued, the case is dismissed

and when you what's your next film? My next film is about teachers being recruited in the Philippines to teach an inner city Baltimore. Because I traveled so much with the Maldown, my daughter was growing up. I wanted to stay home, so I really literally a film in my backyard. And Um, I read the story in the Baltimore Sun that they were recruiting teachers from the Philippines, which was

so odd to me. There was a shortage of science teachers because of course all the science teachers were going to the suburbs, you know, where they're more well resource schools. So they were recruiting from overseas, and the Philippines was a hub because we speak English right, and our educational system is set up like the American educational system because of the forty years of um Commonwealth room and and so I said, wow, and inner city in Baltimore, something

will happen in that classroom. And one thing that to another. Again, I was given access. I asked the public school officials and they said sure. And I was given like carte blanche access to the schools. I'm not sure they do that now, but that was my No one's giving carte blanche to access to journalists and cameras to anybody anymore, no more terrified. Um. Yes, So I followed like four

teachers during the freshman year teaching in Baltimore City. It turned out to be a very hopeful film because it's two marginalized groups of people found community in the classroom. You know, it was it was quite something. Where's the money coming from to make both the Marcos film in this film public television? Is it you tax dollars? As well as with with Emelda Yes. So after the school a story and you're in Baltimore, what comes next? Journey?

I was finishing the learning and so Journey Um Journey. In oh seven, they were looking for a new lead singer because so Jerry got cancer. Yeah, uh, he could no longer do it. And Neil Sean, who is one of the co founders of the band, wanted you know, had heard all the cover bands in the US, but wanted something different. So he trolled YouTube, right, he went,

of course, where do you go? YouTube? And he just kept looking and looking looking YouTube, and then he found this guy Arnel Pinetta who was in the Philippines singing in some at the hard Rock Cafe in Manila, and he was like just enamored of him and called all his band members. The next day, called Jonathan Kane and said I found the guy. And Jonathan was like he's in Manila. I don't think so. I mean, how can we even bring him exactly? And he was not known.

Arnell was not unknown singer. He was not famous at all. But one thing that to another. They got his visa, he flew out to San Francisco, he auditioned, and he got the gig, and um so the lead singer for the biggest crowd he had ever performed for pre was the journey was like two people. Suddenly was in Vina del Mar singing to like millions of people. And so that part, that part is in the film, the first time he sings to like a really large journey crowd.

More from director Ramona Diaz coming up. If you like documentary films as much as I do, I hope you will listen to my conversation with filmmaker Joe Burlinger. I believe the audience should be treated like a jury. You give them the information and your way both sides, and you let them come to their own conclusion. You can hear more from Burlinger in our archives. And here's the thing, Dot Org. This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to

Here's the Thing. Ramona diaz is most recent film a Thousand cuts tells the story of Filipino American journalist Maria Ressa. It's really a window into the country and the government led by President du Terte. Ramona Diaz has lived in the United States for most of her adult life, but the Philippines remains a central to her work. I think I make films because it's a yearning for the motherland. Every film is a yearning. What do you love about

the Philippines. I go back there because I find it somehow hopeful that something will change, and then it gets very frustrating. So it's both a love hate relationship and it's everything I know, right, it's everything deeply I know. I know that country deeply, um, and I was still a lot of friends and I always have hope for it. And that's why I think I keep going back, and that's why I keep making those stories. And it's also to decode I think what's happening in the Philippines to

the Western world. I think I'm in a space where I can do that. I've lived enough in this country to be able to do that, so I'm both inside outside. That's why I love going back. Um Trump is someone who you know both Snaro is someone who he considers himself like minded with Terte, he considered himself is a hero to him. Do you realize now, in the time of Trump, what's happened in your country can happen here as well. Yes, so quickly too, because if you're not vigilant,

you know, if you don't get fraid of it. Yeah, it goes away so quickly. It's so amazing how fragile it is. But the thing about the US is your institutions are much stronger. The reason in the Philippines thinks changed so quickly in six months because the institutions are not that strong. Well the interview, You're very right. The institutions are stronger in spite of Trump, but they're significantly weaker than since he took over. He tried to destroy

those institutions. Yes, But but for people who don't understand, I want them to see the movie. The movie is called A Thousand Cuts, and it's just depressing as hell. I mean, it's really depressing. You don't find a hopeful um, I mean I I find it a little bit hopeful. I find Duterte I find art because he's unbridled by many of the stop gaps we have in this country. When Trump says I could shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue and and I could get away with it, Tete is

literally shooting people on Fifth Avenue and getting away. He's literally doing that, bragging about it, and then very I mean, he is a monster. He's a very, very very unique individual in terms of his uh, in terms of the depths of his hatred. He seems to be soaked and he really traffics and fear. He really thinks fear. What do you think he became that way? Did you talk to anybody who had insights to him earlier in his career?

Has he always been this way? I think it's always, you know, he used to He's the son of a governor, so although he's an outsider politician, he still comes from a very political family. So he was surrounded always by cops and security guards, and he's I think that's what he grew up with, you know, just a culture of killing or people killing or stories of killing. So to him, I think it just comes naturally to talk about killing. Everything is killing. It's really quite incredible, But no one

has ever outraged. I think that's my That's what I'm surprised at because people just laugh and they're not outraged. I mean, as he saw in the film, he talks about like female parts in this really crude way, and people are laughing. The outrage isn't there? Do people mark in his career? Do you see in a timeline of his career, uh, when he turned became more plane speaking in terms of violence and killing people. What was before

he was president? What was he? He was the mayor of dobo Uh town in the south and crime ridden that he cleaned up. And that's why he won because you know, there was a myth that he cleaned up he delivered and cleaned up Da Vow. How did he clean up Da Vow? Well, the same way he's cleaning up Manila basically death spots. Yeah, the same thing. He did, the same thing. And and because of that, he was mythical when he said when he when he ran um, he was mythic and and everyone thought, okay, he can

do that here Manilla to clean up Manila. But the thing is, Manilla's not Da Vow. And he's still I think he's still in his mindset is still a mayor, small town mayor. But now he's president, right, and so he hasn't made that shift. Even after three years. He's still micromanaging everything. And the most powerful courts, uh that could stop him. The most powerful courts in your country that could have some influence over him, are they elective

or they appointed? We have an appointed Supreme Court, but they are all disappointed. His appointees. Now, the one was the loudest voice against him, he he got rid of. I mean you know, he fired, right, and then the loudest voice in the Senate, Senator Delima, he imprisoned. Right, So all branches of government still in prison after three years now, So all branches of government are really under his control. And that's why they say he no longer.

He doesn't even have to proclaim martial law, right, there's no need because they're all under his control. They've given him all the the tools of martial law without asking for exactly. You went back there to shoot the film and you interviewed him. No, but we were given access to be so we were like closest to him, like in the pit, which was very rare because he doesn't

like anyone the press near him. But for some reason he allowed us in the pit, and so we were really close to when he gave all those speeches you were afraid about what would happen to you from the outcome of this film. Marcos gave you all that access and you made this film, and she was disappointed. I can't imagine what the possibilities are disappointed. You know what,

Maria was not afraid. Maria Russell was a protagonist. So I felt like, Wow, then I can't be afraid, right, I mean, of course fear was there, right, But I'm a documentary filmmaker. I think I'll regret it forever if I didn't do it, So sort of the fear outweighed and kind of you don't imagine um regret. But is there a resistance there that has expressed any hope of killing him? Oh, that's a whole other conversation. Assuming political assassination has happened in this country. I mean, we've had

a political I'm assuming. I wonder if people who really want to save the Philippines. But they say, he's always imagining coups and and you know, cop attempts and cool theories. Yeah, he's always poised for a curl always. That's right. Um, let's talk about Maria Arressa in the film one thousand cuts. Who is Maria Arressa. Maria Arressa in the film is the loudest voice, I guess speaking up against She is a woman who is fighting for press freedom in the country.

She's been a journalist for thirty years. She was a face of CNN Asia for a long time. She was the head of Beurey, chief of CNN Indonesia and then CNN Philippines, and then went on her own and founded Rappler, which is a completely like digital news site in the Philippines. And when Arta became president, they were the first ones to really question the drug war and the numbers and they're like the intercept yeah, exactly, very very muscular truth seekers. Yes,

and the data was not happy. And in turn Is threatens her with eleven cases just to shut her up, and yet she does not stop. She just speaks up. So they he went after them and started tried to shut them down and has filed eleven cases against Maria,

all stemming from tax evasion and anti dummy messing with her. Yes. Basically, so because they questioned, I mean, they're the loudest voice against the terriative, because the opposition is really fragmented and not not very you know, not very effective these days. And did you get an impression. I'm sure you did, but I want to ask, did you get an impression when you were interviewing Maria? Why does she do what

she does? What's her? She always says, She always says that she has no choice, like the baton was passed to her and she has to do a chess to stand up to duty. Yes, right, she can't not do it, just like I can't not make the film right because I think the regret. You have to do it. You have to speak up because as a journalist, then what do you stand for if you don't speak up during these times right when you really have to fight. So she feels like she has no choice, but we all

know we all have choices. We just make the choice that we feel we can um uh not regrets. What's interesting to me? What's unusual about Maria Ressa? I never met Gandhi. I don't think I've ever actually watched actual footage of the real Gandhi. I might have. I only know Gandhi as he was portrayed in films and stuff with Ben Kingsley. Maria Ressa has what I imagine is a Gandhi esque level of patience and tolerance. You never see them get to her. She never lets it get

to her. She has the most unimaginable level of self control I've seen in a human being in my lifetime. And it's genuine, right because we spent so many hours where there we saw that you're not some it's genuine because she feels like it's counterproductive to go down that road. She has a job to do. She's going to do it. She's so self actualized in that way. It's it's mesmerizing, it is. And yeah, they messed with her so much, and she's like, hey, what do you want me to do?

You want to see these papers? Sure, okay, you could arrest me. Okay. You never see her act out or or or, which is a problem sometimes because she I'm like, oh my god, people, will people really get that she's in trouble because she's smiling too much? But then I guess people do. That's her, that's what she is, And I think that's part of the charm and part of sort of this irony and the tension between what she is and what's happening to her. Really works. When you

showed Maria the film. What did she think? She's been on camera a lot of her life, so wasn't overwhelmed. She you know, people are I think are always surprised when they when they see themselves in that situation because they never they always forget what you capture, right, Because we were her for months and months and months, she had no idea how we were going to put it together, and as a journalist, she tried helping us. You know, it's like do you want to do this? Do you want?

And we're like no, no, no, no, you do what you want and then we'll just follow you. This is what we do. We're not journalists. You do something different, We do something different. So when she saw it as a whole, she was like, oh my god, you captured everything.

I'm like, yeah, because we were with you, And I think seeing it as a whole just brought her back to those moments that she hasn't really had time to reflect on, and so I think it was really powerful, especially when she saw the Sundance with like the whole round No no for you describe if you will, what's it been like for you as a woman making films. What's been the unique challenge for about that um, people trusting that I can do it, you know, but the

convincing them, right, I mean that's changed in your lifetime. Atana, Yes, well, especially with a thousand cuts I got. I raised that my very quickly because it was imperative that I'd be shooting quickly, and they just said sure here, well no, I make it. Sounds so easy. But it was like a whole here, just go and do it, and here's the whole entire budget whatever we asked for. Which is the first for me? Yes, it was the first. And I'm like, I want to make movies with you. I

want to work for you. I'm not sure if that's going to ever happen again, but I was like, wow, maybe not because it's just content. Right. People were looking for a film about tear. They couldn't quite figure out what. I couldn't quite figure out what I thought. I wanted to do it on the drug war exclusively until I met Maria. Then I thought, oh my god, she is a protagonist. And yeah, I mean sometimes they just fall

on you that, sometimes they enter the room. So as a woman filmmaker, things have gotten a bit easier if you're over these just a little bit easier because I think I've also like staked my claim. There's I haven't niche right and I'm good films under your belt? What are you working on now? Can you say? Uh say, I can't say. It's like a docuseries. But I also want to do fiction, so I've been trying to make

a fiction. I just have to stop doing documentaries. In order to write, as you know, you need space and time and quiet and stillness. So I'm actually trying to make a feature of Imaalda. I'm making it into liked piece. There's a lot there, Yeah, and I would be able to get that job done in two hours. Seriously, I mean that could be maybe a right, a streaming series, but don't stop. Is being um made into a fiction narrative? Yeah,

at Universal somewhere. Now we're going to have to have I should say now, they're going to have to have a talent search to find exactly the kid that was the subject of the talent search. Meta casting is ongoing, I'm told, in case anyone out there thinks this might be their calling. Ramona Diaz's latest film, A Thousand Cuts, will be out in theaters and virtual theaters on August seven. I hope you'll make a point to see it. This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to here's the thing