Pete Souza, Photographer to Reagan and Obama, Would Turn Down Trump

Osama Bin Lawton. Pete Susa has had a resurgence of fame thanks to his funny, sad, and undeniably pointed Instagram posts. He juxtaposes shots of the ex president with the latest Trump news. When the Muslim band was announced, Susa posted a picture of Obama laughing with a young girl in a head job. When Trump refused to shake Angela Merkel's hand,

Obama showed up on Susan's Instagram feed, embracing her. These and other posts have earned Susa a huge fan base, two million followers, and one of the best selling photography books of all time. But despite his association with Obama, his first White House photographer job was with a very different President Ronald Reagan. We moved to DC, win I'm moved to DC and Michael Evans was the chief photographer then and you came on when he was with Reagan

and you were part of a staff of people. What in your mind has changed in terms of people's relationship to a camera now that cameras are ubiquitous it in everybody's pocket. Well, I think what it does is I think every person now thanks that no matter what they're doing, it might appear on the internet somewhere. Maybe they're more suspicious now of you know, how they act and the gestures they make when you were working with that group of when I was working with that group of people.

By the time I came in during Reagan Um, people were not phased by me being in the room taking pictures. People just went about their business. But it was much more cumbersome the process, relatively speaking back then, you're loading film into a camera. Was lighting an issue, the sensitivity of the lenses. I don't know that it was more cumbersome. Yes, you've got to carry extra roles of film in your pocket.

That may be the only combersame part about it is you gotta lower every once in a while, you have to light Reagan differently than and and and both instances. I'm trying to do almost everything available light and never never doing anything with lighting is the first thing you said to yourself when you're in the Oval Office. That's

examining available light situation. Of course, of course they have good available They have good available light in the Oval Office, but not in like the Situation room or the Roosevelt Room, you know some of sometimes some of those rooms are not lit very well. And yeah, and from a photographer's standpoint, it's like ship, I don't want to be I don't wanna have to spend a lot of time in this

room because the lighting sucks. But the Oval Office. The other thing is great about the Oval Office is the lighting in there would change depending on the time of the year. And like, for instance, when the leaves dropped off the trees and and the sun was lower on the horizon, you'd get this incredible light at different hours of the day. Yeah, and and and it would it would only be there during you know, like December, January, February, and then the sun gets higher and you're not getting

any any direct light into the Oval Office. Then it becomes more flatter. So I was always looking forward to the winter months for the lighting reasons. In your childhood and your earliest collections, what was the first time you had your hands on a camera. I did not really take pictures until I was a junior in college. Um, but here's the thing that, you know, you sort of go back to your childhood and you to think about things that maybe you did have an interest and you

just didn't even realize it. In nineties sixty five, my parents took me and my sister to Washington, d C. And we did all the tourist stuff, and there was this book called The Living White House that we got, which was like all the rooms in the White House, they are all these color photographs, was put together by National Geographic and there are some candid pictures of LBJ in there. I just thought it was the coolest book I've ever seen. And I used to look at that

book all the time. I mean, it's still at my mother's house. And so there was something in the back of my mind that the whole White House thing really appeal to me. When you were young, oh not at all, not at all. You went to be you. I went to be you you were studying journalism. I was, I wanted to become a sportswriter. And then you went to Kansas when the Kansas State University for graduate work because

they offered me a teaching assistantship and photography. But it turns out the best thing about Kansas State for me was they had a great daily newspaper, college newspaper, but they behaved as if they were, you know, a real newspaper doing real journalism. So I started working for the college newspaper. So the first time you use a camera to take pictures as your junior year of college, yeah, it's a very quick hop from you picking up the camera for the first time to you teaching photography. I

fooled a lot of that. I tell you about that. Well. I mean people think, oh, you graduated from Boston University. You know, that's a that's a big time school, and um, you know, they thought that I knew what I was doing and I was still learning, but I knew the basics of photography, and so I was teaching a basic photography class at Case State. When you pick up the camera for the first time would be what about it?

Did you say to me? It was magic? Shooting a roll of film, the whole business of putting rolling that film up onto the real in the dark, and as you're shaking the tray, the image starts to appear on the paper, and I was like, this is what I want to do. You're in control from start to finish. You're the only one involved in making the picture, in developing the picture, and then in printing the picture. And what did you like to shoot back then, probably trying

to do something with musicians. I was not very good at first about photographing people. I was very shy, and it was being so being shy affected how it was like sort of like to me. It was it was hard to relate to pe bowl when explain to them why I wanted to photograph them, and I was self conscious about it. And that was the biggest hurdle across knowing how to deal with people in a way that they would be comfortable to allow you to be in

the room while you're taking photos. Did you identify right away that was an important component that you needed to make people feel comfortable to photograph them. I needed to make myself feel comfortable to be there. And the kind

of photography that I was doing was not. Um. I mean, my guess is when when you're a photographed, it's a photographer that wants to do a portrait of you and put you in a setting and there's lights involves sometimes or they're they're directing you a little bit, and the photography that I wanted to do is fly on the wall stuff I wanted I love, which I've tried to turn my portrait photography into that. I say, please, don't make me stand here and find some pos like you're

painting me. I would every time I work with a photographer say let's talk, tell me a story about you, or I'll tell you a story about me, and then I'll stop. I have the sense to stop talking. But I'm still that pot still simmering of where we're adam terms of what we're discussing. So I'm distracted from my own self consciousness. I need to take my mind off the fact that we're taking my picture because I hate having my picture taking and so do I I mean the you do yeah, oh yeah, I can't. I don't.

I don't like the way I look, you know. But um, but for me, it was it was take what you're saying a step further. Uh, I didn't. I didn't want to do a portrait at all. I wanted to be I mean, one of the first projects I did when I was just starting out at BEU was there was

this dance class. Older people participating in this dance class, and I just kept going back and every day I would go there to photograph because I wanted to just sort of just like get the essence of what was happening there, not a it wasn't a big subject at the time, but for me learning how to do photography, this was a good situation to be in where people eventually didn't care that I was there, that I was taking pictures. I could get close to them, I could

get whatever anal I wanted. So it's sort of like a learning experience of you know, just do and fly on the wall pictures. To when you've done in Kansas, where do you go? So I've done at Kansas State and I end up working for two small newspapers in Kansas, which was a great training ground. Well, I just stay in Kansas because it was a job there for you.

You liked Kansas mostly because there was a job. One of my friends used to joke with me because One of the newspapers I worked for, the Chinook Tribune, had a circulation of six thousand. The town was maybe fifteen thousand. It was an afternoon newspaper, and one of my friends used to joke, if a dog crosses the street in the middle of the day, it might end up on page one because there was not that much happening town

small town. But it was a really great raining to be to every day have to go out and you'd have to come up with a page one photo, a sports photo, and a business photo. Every single day. I was the I was it. I was it And that is probably the most pressure I've ever had in my life to do that every day. Um, but it was just a great training round because you how when what

did it force you? To force you to take the most mundane situation and try to make an interesting photo that when it's in print, people are gonna look at and want to read the caption and maybe learn something new every day. I can't say that I succeeded every day, but I tried, and it meant a lot to me the one year of that then and then I went to the Chicago Sun Times. Uh So I went from a six thousand circulation daily newspaper to SIDS and um.

It was one of those uh you know, somebody recommend me for the job and I ended up getting it. And which which specific job? Sports? Uh so general assignment photographers. I did a lot of sports news, features, whatever. And it was basically taking exactly what I did at the small newspaper in Kansas and trying to apply that to the big stity like a kid in the candy store. Oh my god. It was so much fun. Yeah, like

covering big time sports, big time news. You know, there was the Mafia was really big then and Chicago and that was that was a component. Pete to me a favor. I want you to photograph me on my left side. Okay, that's my good side, right. I don't want to ask you again, Peter, don't take a picture of me on my right side. All right? We had no problem with you. I gotta I gotta say you got the Chicago accident down pretty might sometimes for how long? So sometimes not

very long. So see, I think I went there in December of eighty one and I left in June of eighty three because I got this call from Michael Evan. Now wouldn't did Evans explain to you? Did he offer any insights into why he called you? He knew your work, could you had you wont awards for your photography. He happened to have a photo editor working for him, White House photo editor, who I knew and had been following my career. And they're looking for people they think are hot.

They're looking for they were looking for one person. I sort of fit the bill, and you know, my portfolio then was pretty good. I had one some award in Chicago, like Chicago Fire for the Year or something like that, So I had gotten some attention in the industry photojournalism. It's a pretty small community. You serve no everybody, And based on the photo editors recommendation, Michael brought me in for an interview and you know, offered me the job.

Presidents from Johnson on chose their own photographer. Doesn't have to meet Reagan in order to get pass must not. It was Michael. Michael made the call. I think I met Mike Deeve, who was then deputy chief of staff and was sort of overseeing the advance office and the press office and stuff like that. So I think I did talk the diver beforehand. But it was up Michael

made the decision. Were there ever moments of kind of wistfulness when you missed the range of what you got to do before basketball and mafiosa and everything, You've got to do pretty much what you wanted. Did you feel a little bit after some amount of time it was a limitation to it, or you never felt that way when you were in the White House. I was conflicted. I mean I was even conflicted when they offered me the job, because I was thinking, well, do I really

want to do this. I was not a fan of Reagan's. Things were going really well in Chicago, so it's a tough decision to make. But help what helped me make the decision was what what you You always hope is that you're making pictures for history and if you're in the White House, But there there were times when I really wished I was, you know, back in Chicago. Yeah, we're shooting Reagan different from Obama beyond their personal I mean,

the one guy's a movie star. Yeah. I mean every once in a while with Reagan, um, he'd be in the middle of the meeting and he'd he'd like see you taking pictures and like wink at you or something like that. And with President Obama, it was like he would forget that I would be even be in the room because so. But but it was a different circumstance in that I didn't have any kind of relationship with Reagan coming in. I didn't know him at all. I'd

never met him. Uh, And I didn't feel like I was totally immersed in the Reagan White House the way I was with President Obama. Why because um, I knew President Obama for four years before he was elected to the presidency, already had established a professional relationship with him. Plus I came in as the you know, the chief photographer, So this was gonna. I was all in with him

for forgetting about, you know, your feelings about the person. Politically, I don't want to do the podcast with somebody who I don't have some degree of either admiration for or interest in. UM. I respected Ronald Reagan, and I think he respected the office of the presidency. And I think because of that, I was able to say to myself, this, it's worthy for me to be here. Were there ever any episodes they were difficult for you? I mean, um, I always looked at it is I wasn't trying to

glorify him. I was trying to, you know, accurately, honestly portray what was happening. Um. But you know, certainly during the Iran Contra affair, there are a lot of pictures that I made that were, um, where he was, you know, definitely down in the dumps and uh, not looking good and sort of agonizing of what he did, what he didn't do. And the world. You know, your younger listeners won't remember this at all, but back in nineteen eighties or the world was this is it was on cable TV,

on CNN. I don't think there's Yeah, it was a big scandal, and I was right, and I was on the inside, and it was a weird place to be because even though his days were occupied with other issues that were coming up, you still have to deal with the economy and and he's having meetings on things that have nothing to do with her on Contra. That's still hanging over. It's in the air every single day, like like like describe when is the White House photographer welcome

and allowed and when is he not? I think it differs in every administration. Let's go back to Reagan, because I didn't have relationship estab wished with him. Uh, you know, I would push for as much access as I could, but it but it wasn't the same as with President Obama at all. I mean I had total access with President Obama in a way that I didn't with President Reagan. So Jeff Salmy mentioned to one of my producers that Obama was curious about Reagan and asked you questions about Reagan. Yeah,

he knew I had worked for President Reagan. I said to him that I wasn't didn't have the same kind of access with Reagan as I did with him. And he said, well, what was he like? I said, well, to just be diplomatic about it, he was sort of a big picture president, and President Obama said, I want to be a big picture president. Former White House photographer Pete Susa. If you're hungry for more from inside the Obama White House, check out my interview with former Secretary

of the Army Eric Fanning. My job is to oversee the army. The army budget is over a hundred forty billion dollars a year. Do you think we still afford to be a global power in the coming years. I think we can, but I think we need to think more creatively about it, as President Obama has been trying to do. There are such as to what we can spend and recognizing as he does, that national security is more than just the military. Uh it's it's a whole

combination of things across the entire federal budget. There has to be some balance there. The rest of that conversation that here's the thing dot or org. When we return, Pete Susa tells more tales about Obama from inside the White House and beyond, and whether he'd agree to take on the challenge of the Trump White House political differences aside. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing.

Now more with photographer Pete Susa. You first met Obama ware? I first met Obama his first day in the U. S. Senate. Uh So. I was working for the Chicago Tribune then based in Washington, and he's Ben, a Chicago politician, and he covered him no because I was in d C. But when he's elected to the Senate in Illinois and he comes to Washington, then it's on, you know, my watch too to photograph him, and so we Jeff Zeleny was then a correspondent in the in the Tribune Washington

bureau with me. He and I hatched this plan to follow Obama's first year in the Senate and UM do four big pieces throughout the year and got pretty really good access to him in the Senate. And just because of that, where you're in there every day, Obama is doing this, he's doing that, this is a senator, you can sort of get to know the guy a little bit. I met his family, UM, and that one year kind of turned into two years because we started we went to Africa with him, and two does at six again

as Senator UM. And just over time you sort of get to know the guy. He gets to know you. He sees that you work hard, he sees the way you work trying not to interfere with what he's doing. So I think he appreciates that you get it. He says that I get it, which is funny because that's very similar to a set photographer in the movies where someone is obtrusive and where someone is kind of they're kind of groping. You can see them and they're finding

the ideal shop. They want you over the person that's in the foreground and the furniture and the painting on the wall, whatever. And I see them moving around, I'd say to them, will stage something for them for the rehearsal. Then you have to go, because I only work for one camera at a time. I will only perform for the movie camera. And then there were those rare people, like one out of ten they were ninja, and they would get all these pictures and I need even though

they were there. Is that kind of how he felt towards you. Yeah, and I and and he says that in the introduction. I mean, I like the term ninja. I think maybe that's I start using that, uh, because that was my thing. I think I knew how to move around and not be a nuisance. I could go right behind him and show things from his perspective, and it didn't face him a bit because he just like, forget about me being there. A matter of fact, I

got into an argument with him one time. Uh. He had this meeting uh scheduled with the Schwarzenegger when he was governor in the Oval office, and it was it was scheduled for after lunch. Okay, so at lunch time when he ate, i'd I'd always go run down in my office and eat at the same time, so I wouldn't miss anything. So it's lunchtime, I go down my office, I eat, I come back upstairs. Schwarzenegger's coming out of the Oval office. They just finished the meeting, and I'm like,

what the funk just happened? So I started, like, you actually say it that way to the no no, no, no, no no, I said it to his personal sent Okay, I said, what happened happened? This meeting was supposed to Oh he changed it too before lunch. I go, why the hell didn't you tell me? By this time, he's like listening to my conversation and he's like, what's the problem here, And I said, Sir, Katie forgot to tell me that the meeting with Schwarzenegger was moved before lunch,

so I didn't get any pictures of it. And he's like, now, you you were in there taking pictures. I go, sir, no, I was not in there. He goes, yeah, yeah, you were in there taking pictures the whole time. And I was like, I was not in there taking pictures the whole time. I was not in there for one second. But he was convinced that I had been in there because he was just so used to me being around. I guess the president is never coming up to you where his staff is af I coming up to and saying,

don't use that, use that, don't use that. That's all up to you. In terms of at the White House. At the White House, I would be the final like editor per se. I had photo editor that worked with me that would uh, you know, send me what they determined to be the best picture. But I would always sign off on every picture before it went out into the public sphere because I was the guy who had the relationship with President Obama and I just wanted to

be you know, just careful. Um. So it was an understanding, even unspoken, that you were going to make them look bad, you're gonna make them look good. The I don't say, I never know what that means, because I think if you look at some of this, a lot of the pictures that we made public that I don't think they're all about making him look good. I mean, I've got pictures of him learning about the tragedy and Manghazi and Sandy Hook where he doesn't look good, but I thought

they were authentic? Is it government property? So every single picture that I took is now at the National Archives. We were not allowed to the lead a picture, Thank you Richard Nixon, because after Watergate nineties conference past the Presidential Records Act that all this material had to be saved, and including photographs was one of them. Not just the documents, but every photograph had to be saved. So every single photograph that I made is now at the National Archives.

Why do you think you never worked for a White House for for a president in between? Because I didn't want to, You didn't want to. You could have pretended no, no, no no, I don't know. I mean it's it's the odds of someone getting two calls to go WHEREK at the White House as a photographer are pretty slim. They were both accidental in a lot of ways. I was an accidental with Obama. I just happened to be the

Chicago Tribune and DC when he became senator. That's that's what launched me getting into the White House with him. Some presidents Bush Senior, for example, less photogenic. Do you think that determines what kind of a photographer? Then I feel bad for him. Because you know, he's just he doesn't look like a very stiff in front of the camera. Yeah, he's got the glass, the big glasses. Is not happy being photographed, to seem and son wasn't like that though, No,

his son. I know forty three a little bit. I covered his presidency from afar Uh and he's he's actually a good photographic subject, you know Bush, just because just he's kind of a jokester and you know, like to rip people and yeah, playful and he's a good looking guy. And I'm wondering what it must have been like for the White House photographer there with with Clinton. Do you think that there's times when you just go away and leave him alone to suffer with what he's going through.

I mean, I think this is you know I mentioned before about Iran Contra, this is a Ron Contra times ten. Yes. And I was already working for the Tribune and in d C. And so I would go to these events as a member of the press to cover Bill Clinton. And he was doing something, you know, on the environment or the economy. It was during the impeachment crisis, and all the news my editors, all they wanted is a certain look from Clinton. To go along with today's story.

The picture was going to run alongside an impeachment store. They wanted a witherd right, and so to be the guy on the inside. Oh, I can't imagine what that must have been like, But so does the president or there or the times when they just dismiss you, they say, well, let's not take pictures today or this week. You know, if he's really struggling and suffering something like that. Are they allowed to take a pass like that or they obligated to leave themselves open to that every day? It

is complete. There's no like ground rules. There's no there's no ground rules. It's based on the photographer's relationship with the president and either one of the administrations you served where you asked to step aside for a period of time while they endured something that was bothering them. And Reagan it was harder to stay in the room with President Obama. He never wanted everything. Yeah, so when Bush Senior comes in, forty one comes in, you leave? Where

do you go? What are you doing in that period of So for nine years after that, I was a freelance photographer based in d C. Did some stuff for National Geographic When life was a monthly. I did some work for them. Would you enjoy doing what you had? Your break from being in that bubble with those people? It was fun. What was fun was trying to take the fly you know, they fly on the wall approach to sort of feature photography for National Geographic and UM

learning about color and light more. You know, working back then and for National Geographic you have to shoot slide film, which it was very unforgiving. You have to get the exposure just right. You have to be outside when the light was just right. You wouldn't be outside at this time of the day at two o'clock or whatever time it is now, you do you want to be outside at like five thirty or seven am. So learning more

about light and color UM. But freelancing was hard for me because I was not really good at marketing myself, and I had it was for nine years. It was kind of up and down. I had some roll highs and some real loads loads where I wasn't getting work. So being the White House photographer and and the for the Reagan for Reagan for all those years, that's not a guarantee of some kind of a put for you job wise, not a guarantee, and the I think when I left, uh the White House under Reagan, it wasn't

like I was that well known. I mean, one of the things that happened with President Obama is I'm known because of social media. When do you recall social media becomes relevant. Well, what happened was there's been this tradition since the Nixon days that the White House Photography Office blows up pictures, hangs them on the wall the West Wing, and then you rotate them out. And people were blown away by the pictures that I was choosing to put on the wall because it was the real behind the

scenes stuff. And the communications people came to me and to go, we need to make these public. We need we need the public to see. And I was the hold out. It took me like four or five months to really get into wanting to do this, and I said to them, well, if this is the way it's going to be, then I need to curate the collection. I don't want the Press office looking over my shoulder, looking at every picture on the screen and saying, let's

do this one. You gotta let the professionals. Because I had a really good photo editor who had been at time magazine. I said, you gotta let us decide which photos we're gonna make public. So that's how it sort of got started. It was the staff coming to me, uh, urging me to make pictures public um on. At first we used Flicker and then Instagram. You know, it didn't even exist until the second year of his presidency, so

later on we started using Instagram. To what camera did you use when you were shooting Reagan nikon f M two? What camera did you use with Obama? So with Obama used a Canon five D Mark two, And why don't you switch from the one to the other. I looked at all the cameras, and I thought Cannon was the quietest. They had what they called a silent mode. It wasn't totally silent, but it was pretty silent. And it became essential for the work you do, totally essentially, and it

was so much quieter than Nikon. It was even quieter than the like a digital cameras. Um And so that's that's why I chose the Canon. When you are doing what you're doing in between the two administrations, and did you say to yourself, you know, why am I going back here to do this again? For a second hit of this was it what what did you tell yourself? What was their reasoning to go back after you've done

it for so long with Reagan? Uh? Well, I think it was because I realized that, you know, Obama could be a transformational figure in our country. I liked him, I liked his policies, and he was a great subject subject. I think it's his look. You know, he's tall and thin, but he just had this manner about him with gestures, with the presence of the camera not affecting how he behaved.

Um the way you're gonna ask you about that in the words in the way that it's do you think that the camera truly captures the person for who they are or do you think there are people who are able to even fool a camera and make you think there's something that they're not or obscure something about themselves that they want obscure. That's a negative value. People can definitely do that, But people can't do that when they're being photographed every re single day, nine to six or

nine to eight or whatever. There's no way you could fool a came that. Yeah. So, but you know, if if like I was only coming in for an hour a day or something. Sure, somebody could put on a show for an hour, but not when this guy is around you. Essentially seven, it wasn't really seven, it was more like twelve seven. That's what strikes me about Obama is that he was a guy with it was a

certain kind of integrity to him. That's what came through. Well, the most interesting part of my job was that I saw him and all these different compartments of his life. I saw him as a dad, and I saw how he behaved with his children. I saw him when he was on the basketball court, and um, I played uh cards with him. Most competitive guy I've ever met my life. And the general public doesn't see that, but I saw that part of him. They sort of have glimpses of

his family life. But you know, he loved his daughters. He loves his daughters and you I could see that, you know, all the time. To make in a sense that he, like other men who have had that job, it was painful for him not to be able to spend as much time with his family as he'd like to. Well, I mean, one rule that everybody at the White House staff knew was at six thirty or seven o'clock. He

was in a dinner with his family full stop. Now there are times where you come back down to the Oval, but he was going to have dinner with his family every night. It was actually easier as president than than as senator because as a senator, his family stayed in Chicago, and he'd come to d C like three or four days a week. I mean three, yeah, for like Tuesday

through Friday morning or something. So there'd be at least three days that he wouldn't see his family, whereas when we were in town, he would see his family every night. With the president we have. Now, what do you think your life would be like? Now? Boy, I don't know. I know one thing is. Under no circumstances would I have stayed on to be White House photographer. I was

the White House photographer. Now it's someone that had been in the Bush administration and had been lower Bush's photographer for But I like, I just I don't think I could bring myself to be there and do that. Is it a man or a woman? It's a woman. And do you know her? Yes? Your book which I have here, Obama and intimate portrait is breathtaking. It's beautiful, it's a beautiful book because the subject is a very attractive guide in a lot of ways, and someone who I support politically,

which makes a huge difference. But but it also appeals to people, I think because of what we are dealing with. Now. Yes, yeah, he was Abraham Lincoln. What's a picture even that's a damn good picture I took. Well, here's here. You know, the goal is to always capture a photograph a moment that has mood and emotion, that's composed just right, the lighting is just right. And yet I'm going to tell you there's a picture that only has one of those components that is one of my favorites, and it's the

one on the back cover. Um it's a young African American boy touching the head of the president as he's as he's bent over, Because I think that tells you a lot about how he relates to um or you know, how a young kid relates to him. But also that even as President United States, at the behest of a five year old, he went ahead and bent over to let this little kid feel his hair, which I think, uh, how much tells you everything you need to know? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

I understand. I understand. Um, well, thank you so much for doing this, thanks for having me on and I I love your book. I think it's absolutely gorgeous. And you're right, it makes people wistful. It's tough because we certainly wish that we were in a different place when than we are now. But do you get to interact

with Obama anymore? Run into Yeah. The last time I saw him was at the portrait gallery, then failing of the two pictures, he and Michelle's portrait, and then I saw him over Christmas at he had a holiday party at his office. Uh. He was wearing a Santa hat. Uh.

People say, well, how's he doing? I go, well, the thing that I noticed is it's as if the way of the world has been lifted from his shoulders because for eight years, you're the guy everything is coming to your desk and and despite you know, you think of him as being relaxed, and you know that that's a big job to have. And I think that he is now enjoying life. Pete Susa's book of photos and stories from his years in the White House with President Obama

is called Obama an Intimate Portrait. It's beautiful. If you already have that one. You can pre order Shade A Tale of Two Presidents, his next book of photographs. It takes susa's Instagram into hardcover framing, inspiring the photographs from the Obama White House with tweets and quotes from Obama's successor. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. Two cook