Megan Mullally and Nick Offerman Take it Slow in Work and in Love

together off screen. They have been married since two thousand three, and as Playboy Magazine wrote a couple of years ago, their comic chemistry is akin to that of a hyper sexualized Jerry Stiller and Anne Mira. Thank you both for coming, Thanks for having us. Let me begin by asking that the two of you also. I'm gonna start with Nick because we've gotta go one at a time here, and that is that. What was the comedy d n A

and your family when you were growing up? Did you come from a family of like rip snorton comedy people. I wouldn't say rip snorting, but there is a powerful sense of humor in my family. They're hardworking and humble. Their farmers and school teachers and nurses and librarians. Sorry, and um, and so there's a real I think it's the farmer ethos where you have to work. You can't be too funny or too dramatic. You just keep working.

But you know all of your year's work might be wiped out by locusts or storms, so you have to have a dry sense of humor of like, well, I guess we're eating our shoes this year. And I picked up on that. And were you the funny one in your family? Well, that might be over egging the pudding, but I uh, I was definitely the showman performer. Yeah. You mentioned in an interview where you said, like you're hardworking, kind of tough, no nonsense family. They viewed you as

like the woofs of the family business. I'm the city when I walk in the door, it says that I'm the Milo of my family. Perhaps. And you you that you were born in l A but you grew up

in Oklahoma. Yeah, how did that happen? How did that happen? Well, my father was a contract player with Paramount in the fifties, and so they lived in Los Angeles for a long time and I was born here and then when uh, and then they moved back to Oklahoma when I was six, and I had a little bag packed by the door of that whole time I was in Oklahoma, just waiting to come back to Los Angeles. Although I had a great upbringing, but I just I knew better. Did he

feel like he didn't want to ring. Did he feel like he didn't want to raise his kids in l A? That's why he went back to Oklahoma to have a Uh. Yeah, his parents had lived in Newport Beach and they both passed away in the same year, and he just didn't want to be here anymore. And he was very bitter about the entertainment industry. And he had grown up in Oklahoma City and my mom had grown up in Tulsa, so he just wanted to get back there. But can

you imagine that being bitter about the entertainment industry. I wouldn't know what that's like. Yeah, I think he wanted to be the big fish, you know, and he wanted to make it. He really wanted to make it, but it was really busy drinking alcohol, so it really cut into the acting time. Yeah, he was very busy drinking alcohol and having sex with women who weren't my mother, So it really took a bite out of the Some people are able to juggle those persons. Yeah, but he

was more specialist. Yeah. So did he did he act in Oklahoma? Did he revive his careerty become like the he did Tony Randall of Oklahoma with gaily people? With his theatrical my father was. He wore an ascot and at one point had a yeah in Oklaoma City in like this early sixties, and had at one point bought a fant rolls Roy Roy's Phantom three, uh Gray you know what you know extravaganza and he would drive that around,

tuning in ascot. So the fact that he was not way to bang a lot of women and what was that? He just had a very he was like a gay guy, you know. He just had like a very fantastical presentation. Yeah. Yeah, my parents had a lot that I learned to sing because my parents had a lot of Barbera Streis and Judy Garland records. And I was like, we're my parents to gay men. What what's happening now? What he did he perform in Like I read that he performed at

Dinner Theater there. He was kind of the only p something that I knew growing up who had this really you know, kind of um met a sense of humor and so I yeah, he could crack my mom and I for sure, but we were all so scared of him. That was a good combo. Well, know what your families? Are your parents both alive at all? Or now? My mom is my mom's ninety five? Yeah, she's she's she's an Oklahoma city in the same house that I grew up in. Did she get the roles? She know that

had to be sold? I think. But my my dad never really had like a real job, but he had money from the family, had some oil money from way back when, so he kind of drifted along on that. But the roles was temporary. Was your dad around to meet him? Do they know each other? No? Unfortunately my dad passed away. But I is totally completely different? Is he and Nick? Are? I do think that there's some crossover because both gay? Um, there's that and wait can

they yeah, ton, it's coming out? Okay? Speaking of gay? Can I mention what you said backstage? Backstage, Megan was staring at my balls when I was sitting down. Can you see the hole? You see the hole in my past? I split my pants? Can you see. Okay, I'm gonna put the paper, I'm gonna put my notes here. I'll read the trousers has been invented that will contain the testicles of like bald one, they will not be reined in,

they will not be rained in. Nick has taken a rather festive handkerchief out of his pocket and wraps around his neck in the form of an ascot, So it's more of a crava. So the Offerman's. So the Offerman's and the and the uh and the Malawley's never met, I mean where you got the two families got together well, and that would have been an interesting thing. Yeah, Megan's mom came to Minuka, and the families have visited each other.

Uh and and Megan's mom had a wonderful gentleman companion, Mr. Nat Smith, and they traveled all over together with them. And so they came to our little town of Manuka for holiday dinners. And then we came to Oklahoma as well. Minuka, Manuka, Manuka, Minuka. So I'm gonna assume that Manuka people even coming there

from Oklahomas. I mean, Oklahoma City is paris compared to Minuka, I'm assuming, and so never even went Chicago is less than an hour away, and they never even when it was like going to Morocco, it felt like we were in Mayberry Um. When I finally got to Chicago, I felt like I had traveled from the fifties to present day. You you went to Champagne or Banna. I did to study what I'm proud fighting a line. I to study theaters. They yeah, they have actually a quite reputable theater conservatory.

And that's what you wanted from when you were when you were young, you knew you wanted to study acting. I was really ignorant. I I knew that I wanted to perform, and I only is about a junior in high school. I found out that you could get paid to do plays in Chicago. Like I had heard of Broadway, and I had heard of London, but I certainly didn't think I could get there from Manuka. I was ignorant.

I didn't do the math that that you watch. You know, my dad and I loved watching Jackie Gleason and John Wayne movies, and I never did the math of impersonating like, oh, I can learn to talk like Reverend Jim mcnatowski on taxi and then somebody will give me, you know. Instead,

I just was like, hey, you guys crazy. You would have a breakdancing team with his cousin Ryan whatever they talk and flip flop flip flop was Ryan because he did the gymnastics and the popping locker here was TikTok fuking crazy guilty, So you realize you wanted to We did plays at my high school and it just plays in high school. Yeah, I did. How many people were in your high school? Like eleven people total? About eight hundred like you did? Good? Oh, and nine other people

were in the audience. We did um, we did you know, the crampy plays that high schools do. We also did musicals, and so it was a revelation to discover that you could perform theater professionally in as close as Chicago, and that these kids were studying that to do this at the University of Illinois and I saw I that was my first audition, and it was I didn't even know what a monologue was like. For one of my monologues, I performed a scene of dialogue, played both parts. Yeah, Louis,

what what exactly like doing both parts? What scene was that? What scene did you do to both parts. It was a scene from the place steam Bath once again scene from the Plague Glory Hole. And yeah, the professors were you could have done Boys in the Band and played all the parts from but they you know, I honestly think, um, they took uh sixteen students a year in this conservatory.

And I was very affle deck and I think that you know, they do a lot of Shakespeare and big check off plays, and so you need a couple of guys to like carry the coffin or the carry the samovar on stage. He was an altar boy. Also, I was no, wait, what sports did you play? It was Central Illinois, so basketball, baseball, and football, but football was my best sports. Would you play position? Defensive back? Either cornerback or what they called monster back? That was good

at at tackling people? Um, but people. It was a little weird, But I had, um, I don't know, I had the respect of the team, so they they kind of thought I was fruity, But I think I was tough enough at sports that they were liked. Saturday Afternoon, I was in the swing choir. You were gay until the kickoff? Were you a superstar athlete there in Oklahoma

and Oklahoma City. Uh now I was. I wasn't a ballet company, though I was a serious ballet dancer for many years, and I was in a company for five years and studied at New York City Ballet's School School of American Ballet UM. But no, I, on the other hand, basically came out of the womb in a top hat and tapshi. I was developing my skills from birth, Yeah, I was. I was literally like in my room trying to perfect every possible performing skill imaginable from the age

of four. Um. Yeah, I don't know why it's I think it's weird that those kind of things happened. I think that when kids have a certain predilection, predilection for a career. I mean I know so many people who who had that. Yeah, when I was a kid, that we would always torment my mother because like when I was a little you know that programming on TV was like old Warner Brothers, gangster films, or like the Bowery Boys.

I don't know if people who remember the Bowery Boys, like my whole childhood, we just like shovel that on my mother all the time. She'd be like, are you boys gonna finish those potatoes. We're like, we're not gonna eat the potatoes. See who's asking? See why don't you know damn potatoes? Get out of here. See my mother will be like, oh God, oh God, what's happening. What

did you watch? I liked the weird stuff like Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman, And yeah, that's the fact that they even aired that in Oklahoma City kind of blows my mind when I think about smoke pot and watched Mary Hartman Mary Hartan. I was it was. I was too young, but I had words. Don't bullshit us? Yeah, no, when it first started, I was. I didn't ever smoke pot till I was seventeen. I don't think I watched Mary Hartman. Mary.

I used just to blow a big fat one out the window before Mary had I love that show my mom. My mom used to watch it with me. She totally got it. My mom encouraged me in a lot of ways, and I knew every song on the radio and all that kind of stuff. And my mom always, you know, she gave me ballet lessons and encouraged me to be creative. Did you smoke a lot of weed there in Minuka? No?

In fact, no, it was very conservative and the uh like the six known pot smokers, were completely alienated, like they this this was the eighties, and they like they announced their devotion to to marijuana with long hair and like rat concert t shirts. It wasn't even something you considered, like there was such a taint on it. And then I got to theater school and and my best friend Joe, it took him at the time time, there's a longside tangent.

I was pretending to be a born again Christian so that I could sleep with this particular young lady, And so I had to kind of work out of that to save face. They would they would they were he was, they were both born again supposedly, and then he would like get her to like have sex with them, and then they would both cry and like get down their knees and repent and ask her forgiveness, and then the same thing the next night, and just on and on

every single night, every night born again. She was born again and again and again highly recommended. And when did you decide you're going to go to to become like a pro. You got a college and what happened when you've done with college? Well, there was a group of us. Uh, you know, and I was really bad at acting like I was so ignorant. Um that I was trying way too hard in a nutshell was my problem. And uh. And so all through college I wasn't really getting cast.

But I endeared myself to this group of of great artists because I could build scenery and I could choreograph sword fights. Became a a big sword fighter and um. And so we formed a theater company called the Defiant Theater and moved on Moss to Chicago. What's up? That was kind of the thing, was like, let's make a go of it in Chicago, which is probably the greatest theater city in the country. Um. For that reason, it's

you can. You can. You can make a go of it with a storefront theater in a more affordable way and your audience there. There's no ulterior motive, there's no Broadway, there's no TV business. It's if you're doing Beckett in Chicago, it's because you really want to do theater. Why do you think that is? To explain to people who don't know and count me among them, why is uh, Chicago

such a fertile ground for theater? I don't know. I think it's a combination of not being uh, you know, New York, in l A, our places where if you if you have a scrap, yeah that's the full of dogs. If you if you have just a spark of talent or cuteness, in those cities, people are like, hey, we can, we can make a lot of money with you quickly.

In Chicago, you don't have that ulterior motive, Like the top paid theater performers there are not doing that great, so it's not it's for passion and you're not chasing fame and fortune. And you also just have that Midwestern work ethic. Um, Chicago theater is a lot closer to farming than the coastal. I did a lot of theater in Chicago also, but before Nick and because I'm older, she wents to Northwestern. Ye, and then I did theater there for like six years. And um that's where I

learned everything. Because I didn't study acting at Northwestern, so um mostly English and art history and UM. But I did a lot of theater while I was in school. It was right when steppin Wolf was really hitting. I got cast in a professional show while I was still in school at Northwestern, and Um, I was just starting my junior year and I had gone back to school for two weeks and I was doing eight shows a week at you know, and um, I went in to talk to the dean and I said, this is really hard,

and she said drop out. I said, all right, don't mind if I do, and so I did. And then I got some calls. When I was doing Chicago Theater for some reason, I I tested for the lead in Risky Business spoiler alert. I didn't get it, um, but I was flown out here for two weeks. It was a really big deal and for me at the time. And uh then I had a lot of agents, like you know, big agents, Hollywood agents calling me in my little apartment in Chicago, and I was flown out for

like two or three other movies didn't get them. And then I moved out here finally in six six yeah, five six, I don't know. And so I already so I had an agent right away, so it made it easier. I always was able to support I was very lucky. I was always able to support myself. I never had, you know, a civy job, you know, which is kind of bad and kind of good. What's the first thing you did, they really clicked for you, where you really started to get you on that path where you you

know you're gonna work. I mean, I remember exactly. I did this movie called She's Having a Baby with Kevin Bacon years ago, no place, but I just mentioned it because there were these two women who were the casting agents. And once I got cast in that movie and I was on their radar, everything changed after that. Well, I was lucky if I worked, you know, I was able to work here and there, and I got a pilot.

Most pilot seasons, I got a pilot or I you know, do episodic, but I never got any shows that really hit for more than thirteen episodes. But then I got cast in a Broadway revival of Greece. And I was doing Greece and somebody said, oh, they're going to do a revival of How to Succeed in Business without really trying with Matthew Broadwert, and you're perfect for the female lead. And I didn't know the show at all, and I rented the movie and it took me like three days

to watch it. I thought it was kind of boring, and anyway, I ended up auditioning for it and I got it, and then we started before we went to Broadway, we did it out here in Lajoya and there was this guy who we still know, who worked for the Hollywood Reporter at the time, and he wrote this review and most of the review was about me, which was crazy. And that really was the thing that kind of that was my first really big break. Yeah, and what about

you when you you came out here? When I did about four years in Chicago with my company, and things started to go well. I became better at acting, started getting you know, good roles, and I had a year in where the whole year I had just the best possible shows. I felt like it was my dream year. And I had a tooth. I had a hole in one of my molders that I could fit a pepper corn in, which was convenient um on long hikes. But

it dawned on me I was twenty six. I was like, I'm at some point I'm gonna need to like see a dentist. And I've heard about the like SAG medical insurance and things like this, and so I had a couple of little jobs out here that brought me out. It was very dubious. I mean, I was playing a bad guy in a weird cartoon thing on Nickelodeon. The producers were like, we can fly you out, but it's you know, it's on you Go Airlines and it's a subcoach. Um. I landed at L A X and I coming from Chicago.

I just thought I would take the C T A to Hollywood, and I ended up finding a bus. I knew that Sunset turned into Caesar Chavez, so I took a bus to down to like right here, and then walked to the Sunset Gower and I was like, man, I isn't it crazy? The ship? We didn't we had no money. How we survived and you love it? And I loved it and I didn't love it at all. I couldn't wait to make money. And when did things When did things change for you? And did you want

them to? Because you sound like somebody who you're you weren't maybe quite sure that was the goal was to make it or was it? Well? I wanted yeah, I always wanted to be, you know, to perform good writing. I mean that's what kind of like. I really thought I was gonna be a theater guy and I and

I became one. But it uh there's there was something lacking, Like all my friends in my theater company didn't have They sort of lost their fire and they all dropped away and got jobs and had kids, and so I was. I was trying to find my place, and and I moved here, and I was kind of lost for a couple of years, and I finally said, I don't know what the funk I'm doing. I I, uh don't understand

this business. I don't like it. I quit going to like commercial auditions and instead committed those hours to carpentry work. And finally I said, I just need to do a play. Uh, that's that's what I do. And I told everybody I knew and some friends again. Casting directors say, say, are the reason we're all sitting here. I mean, these two great ladies that championed me said hey, our friends are doing a play. And Megan was the lead in the play and it saved my life. I mean that. And

that's where you met. Yeah, that's where we was. Yeah, I was in two thousand and it was a theater company on the East Side, and he was sleeping on a couch in someone's basement. Quite a catch. I've been looking for somebody just like him ahead a yeah, a pair of gold overalls that he he wrote all of his notes on, like people's phone numbers and stuff because apparently no paper. So I'll watch out. Come on over to my place and take a shower. You smell like

you could use one. Didn't have a bathroom, Now have a bathroom. But what was the play? You had a pail chuck Me's the Berlin Circle? What was it about? What did you play? Uh? Meg? And played Pamela Harriman. It's sort of a comedy modernization of Caucasian chalk Circle,

and it's like a deconstruction of mother Courage. Basically, I played an East German soldier who did a lot of breakdancing named Werner heine Um and he shaved his head for it, and he had um a big mustache, shades of things to and he was about forty pounds heavier. So meeting Megan and miraculously having her accept me into her body, um after a period of four months, that's that's one four months, So that's extreme. It was crazy. I I had all kinds of it really was very

well orchestrated. At first, we couldn't do we couldn't even it wasn't even a possibility. We weren't going to date. Nothing was gonna happen. Yeah. Then then we then we kissed. That was that was. He got in my car one night and I was like, get out. And then a couple of weeks later, you know, there's a little making out, and then I wouldn't even let him come over to my house. Then finally he could come over to the house,

but he couldn't come in. He could just drop me off for you know, or we could stand outside in the yard, but he couldn't come in. Then he could come in, but only the living room, and then he had to go. Then he could come in and I don't know. Then he could sleep on the couch, but I would sleep in the bedroom. Then he could sleep in the bed, but he couldn't have sex. Then finally sex. I don't know why. I guess I had just been burned so many times. I was going to be goddamned

if it was going to happen again. I was just gonna making really really sure. Wow, So did you feel about that? Nick? Four months of I would just what door I'm behind whatever she was playing there, I would have you know, I mean, I would have done four years, Like I knew, I knew it was I knew it was it, and so I was like this, I had that confidence, and I think I was just so skeptical about everything, and I'd been heard, and I just didn't want to I just didn't want to take any chances.

The four months paid off for Megan Molalley and Nick Offerman. They've been married since two thousand three. They described themselves as simple, boring people and say one of the reasons they've lasted is that they like to go home and read books and do jigsaw puzzles and play cards to protect themselves from the craziness of the business. To year from another family pair, take a listen to my conversation with writer Erica Young and her daughter Molly Young Fast.

What did you learn about marriage from your parents? Mom? Can I answer that question honestly? Of course, honestly is the only way. Well. I would say, have you seen Kramer versus Kramer? That was my general impression of marriage from my upbringing. But you know, my mom had some good, useful suggestions, but ultimately I sort of had to find my own way, though she did eventually marry a really great guy and they've been married for twenty one years.

Take a listen at Here's the Thing dot org. This is Alec Baldwin and you were listening to Here's the Thing. My guests today are actors Nick From and Megan mollally. They joined me live on stage at the Ace Hotel in downtown Los Angeles. Megan mollally had already done a couple of seasons of Will and Grace when she met Nick. Nick told me that as a cast spouse, he was what he calls the main mascot on the set of Will and Grace, and in that role he learned a lot.

So it was the most incredible education in wonderland to be there and watch them make every episode of that show for the last six seasons. And I was just happy as a clam. And I also had my wood shop, like I was living the dream. And so when Parts and Wreck came around, that was that was when thank you that that took it up an unexpected seventeen notches where I was like, oh ship, It was so crazy. We have so many parallels because we both moved to

Los Angeles. Well both had a Chicago theater period and then we moved to Los Angeles when we were twenty six, and then we both got I got Casting, Will and Grace when I was thirty nine and you got Parks and Wreck when you were thirty nine. Right, so we have so many weird parallels, and he had watched me go through all of that, so he kind of knew

what to expect. You were able to kind of Yeah, it was kind of satisfying for me to see him like encounter some of the things that I had dealt with because he thought that I was being why he thought I was being a baby, And then he went through them and he was like, I don't like it, And I was like, see, I don't like the color they painted my dressing room. But but but for example, what like, what's something you were able to guide him about. Well,

one the one that is so valuable to me. Early on in our relationship, we were in New York and Megan was going to do Letterman and we were running ten minutes late, you know, to get to Letterman, and I was sweating bullets and I was new to the whole thing, and I was like, what the fuck is what's going on? How can you we'd be late for Dave? What's the matter with you. And we get there and there's some people outside that want Megan's autograph, and she

stops to sign the autographs. So we're like Jesus and we'll get inside. And I said, are you crazy? We're late to Letterman And she said, I if it wasn't for the people who want my autograph, I wouldn't be on Letterman. Ah. And now when did you get to I mean, I don't want to be campy about it, but when did you get the big phone call when you knew you were going to go do the big show? That's Will and Grace? But yeah, Will and Grace. But I'm talking about not how to succeed. I got a

lot more plus just I'm just saying whatever, stick around. Miss. I loved by the way how he didn't mention parks and he kind of laid back. It was then I got up with this thing called bucks. And are you talking about the first time? Will and Grace? Are this upcoming? Well and Grace? Well, miss fancy pants, I was talking about the first round of Will and Grace. Don't you guys want Alec to come on Will and Grace this time? Hand One of the greatest lines I ever had on

Will and Grace. We did the live show when I had ice cream in a bag. You always gonna have ice cream with you, and you wouldn't let me into your apartment hint In made me wait four months. Yeah, and I got the ice cream and uh, I'm standing there and I say good night to you, and Eric McCormick says, your package is dripping. I said, what can I say? I like her. That was like the most ridiculous line I've ever been asked to say a television show in my entire life. But when you got the call,

how did that happen? Were you? How did you get that job? Well, Jim Burrows always call that lightning in a bottle. I had moved out there five and I had auditioned for shows every year pilot season, and um, I usually booked a pilot. I was. I was lucky. But then I kind of got burned out. And so around nines seven, I was in the parking lot of a bed Bath and Beyond and I got on a pay phone with my agent and I said, Bob Gersh, I am not doing anymore. I'm not auditioning for anymore sitcoms.

It wasn't It's not meant to be obviously, and he said, yeah, okay, I think you are auditioning for sitcoms and I said, well, I'm not. And then I had to pay my rent, so I was like, okay, I'm auditioning for sitcom. So I auditioned for Will and Grace for the role of Grace and they were like no, thanks, and I went home. A couple of weeks later, I got this call, they want you audition for Will and Grace and I said, I already did, dumbouse and they said no for this

other part. And I said, there's not another woman in it, and they were like, yeah, there's and they sent me the script and I read it and I thought, oh, this is boring because it wasn't written the way that it ended up being. So I went in and I auditioned and then they wanted me to come to the network and I was the only person and UM, so boring, sorry, and uh so we are, okay, thank you, thanks for

the I needed that well push. I was the day of the network and I didn't know whether it was going to go or not, and I finally decided I would go, and I went and I got the part and then we went and we had our first read through informally before the big table read, and I was like, M. And then we had the big table read and I

was like And then we shot the pilot. And well before we shot the pilot, we were sitting there and Don all Meyer, who was a big friend of O. J's, a be network executive at NBC, came over to us, which is unheard of at that time for a network executive to come over to the horrible shitty actors, you know.

And this was when Deborah Messi used to smoke cigarettes and she had a cigarette and he said, do you need a lie and she said yes, and he pulled out this gold Cardier lighter, this really glamorous lighter, and he gave attorneys and she lit her cigarette and went to hand it back and he said keep it. And we were like, oh, we're getting picked up. I'm buying

a ranger over. So so we did the pilot and I don't even know why, but like it was mostly Sean Hayes, Like the audience just fucking flipped over him. And he had never he was twenty seven, he had never done anything, never been on a television show, and there was just an instant response, and then I thought, all right, And then about the tenth episode in it started getting really coming together and I thought this could be really really good. Well, what's interesting when I watched

the show. When I came on the show, I decided to watch a whole kind of uh bin of the shows and your show. Like when I did a sitcom, you really don't get it until a few episodes in, Like your kind of your first season is nothing at all like your character in the thirds. You're really kind of short, taking more chances, taking more things on on yourself. I didn't do that high voice at the beginning because

I thought they would definitely fire fire. Yeah, and so it kind of like every episode gets a little bit a little bit, a little bit, a little bit higher. Yeah. That's amazing because there you and I have such similarity because I have auditioned to play Kenneth on thirty Rock first and I didn't get the tar and I went home,

and then they wrote another part for me to play. Crazily, Jack McBriar was almost Ron Swanson, No, just kidding, but he's not a very beast like you and me and I talked backstage about how we're men of a certain kind of a code, a certain kind of d n A god bless you, and I come on, put your money where your mouth is. They didn't pay enough preticket for us to do that. I'm afraid. Now. How did the parks andrec thing happen? For you? Well? In contact you?

How does that play out? I auditioned Um a bunch for the show The Office, Um, and I loved that show and the sense of humor. And I had known Rain Wilson actually for a long time because we always auditioned against each other for like the weird Guy in the Basement for real, for real, and and Rain was scoring these victories. He had a great part on a six ft under and then he got Um and then

he got The Office. And Megan and I loved watching the off this and when Dwight would have a great episode, it would end and I would say, you know, if I'm ever gonna make it, it's gonna be on a show like this with a part like Dwight shroot. And so I had I had auditioned for them like there there was a fundness, but I was never able to do anything on their show. A few years later, one of their main writers Mike Scher, who also played Mos. Shoot,

that's some of the best Easter eggs. Uh, he's so funny. So he and Greg Daniels created Parts and Wreck, and Mike had remembered me. He had he had written my name on a post it and put it on his monitor, and years later, when they said we're gonna make Parts and Wreck, he said, I want this guy on on my post it on the program. They originally read me for a role that was a romantic interest for Rashida and everyone. We were all getting along great. Everyone's like, yeah,

this is great. And they turned it into NBC and they literally said, you said someone like Aaron Eckhart and you fucking hand us Nick Offerman. Wow, no, thank you. So my part, Ron Swanson, was supposed to be an older guy, but they, bless them, obstinately said all right, we want Nick on the show. We're gonna make him Leslie's boss. And it took months. NBC was like, hmm, let's audition several hundred other people just to be sure.

Let's go on a world tour. Yeah, every guy I've ever met read for Ron Swanson, Um, except Jack McBriar. And so finally, uh, finally, finally, after five months, Uh, they had me in one last time, put me on tape, turned it in and I got the job, and my Mike, Sure, my boss called me. I had inured myself. You learned early.

If you're lucky enough to test for shows, you learn quickly how painful it is because when you test for the network, they have it figured out, so you have to negotiate beforehand, so that you can't negotiate once they want you. You can't say, okay, I want extra money. So when you go into the audition, they put your

contract in front of you and it says this. It's like, all right, if you get this job, you will get thirty thousand dollars a week for many weeks, and you know you've taken the bus to get there, and you're just like, God, she's as scritch, Please you can cut that at half if you want, you know, cool, And so then you're so crushed when you never get it, And so you learn to not get emotionally involved and you're like, yeah, I know this doesn't mean anything. And

I had done that for many years. So when I actually got the job, I just started sobbing, and I said, Mike please keep talking to me, but I'm gonna openly sob remember about fifteen minutes it was it was that was one of the greatest days of my life. I mean it really was such got the job on approximate, really was going to get it. It just took so damn long. Now we're going to be at a time. But I just want to ask you, like, what's entertainment in your life now? Like, do you go to the movies?

Do you watch a lot of streaming TV? Do you watch your Because I read what you guys an evening for you was what piece puzzle in an audiobook we do on a table that you built Missing the Bachelor to be here tonight three hour episodes. So I'm just saying, that's a really big deal for us. I'm sorry, big sacrifice that is. That is our bag, Like, that's our ultimate escape, is doing puzzles while listening to audio. Yeahs.

Anybody who doubts that we personally actually put every piece of that puzzle together, fuck you someone someone did it. Oh yeah, she's ready to play Karen again. You want to see like a time lapse video of us doing it because they don't believe that we do it. Or they just want to jerk off to us doing a puzzle. Very astute one of the other than you streaming live for people to jerk off to your puzzle making. What is entertainment in near your household? What do you like

to do? Theater? Film, music? What do you went to? Megan's the entertainment director. Um, we we watch pay watch is uh literally yeah. We both love reading. But we also we watch a great variety of independent films, um, foreign films, comedies, and we watched a lot of you know, cable and streaming shows. But we do watch the entire entire Bachelor franchise and survivor Into the Bachelor? You into you into that? The Battle? Yeah? Oh um, yeah, because

I wach that show once. It was very degrading. They're like begging the guy to marry them, and I'm like, you know, the guy's a douche. What are you begging them to marry you for? Not all the time, but some of the time. Now, last question, Megan's math that I cast aspersions on her favorite show. Oh, I don't know, I don't mind. What's for you? Is there a play in your future? You want to get back on stage

anytime soon? We both love working on stage. Uh. The last year I did Confederacy of Dunce's in Boston and UH and it was a huge hit. It broke sales records for the theater. The New York UH community informed us we were not invited at the time. Why do you think that is? I don't know, that's way above my pay grade. Um, we were hoping to do it in New York and then maybe London. UM. Beyond that,

I don't know. I mean, a couple of plays just came my way that were long commitments, and I had to say no to them, and it was heartbreaking because they were super juice. Aside a new play, is there a is there a classic revival role you're dying to play? Um? I mean I love a lot of different genres, but I think you and I should do ben Hecks the Front Page at some point the York. Yeah, we're a little late to that one. My friend, Well, there's always Cleveland. UM.

I love Martin McDonough's plays. Uh there, but I mean I could go all night I love. I was in Chicago when Tracy Lets started writing plays. Uh. In fact, his first play, Killer Joe, I was one of the scenic carpenters on and so I I really love his

work and I admire him a lot. But when you do play, when you're a guy like I love Williams, and you track that as you get older, and you go, well, I'm Chance and I'm Stanley, and I'm Thow and I'm Brick, and there's a big leap to Shannon and then your big daddy and maybe the doctor in the Indus street Car who cards s blanch Off to the nuthouse. But but, but, but I'm not just saying this to be polite, because every actor of a certain age is has their eye

on Shannon. And in that play, you'd be great as Shannon is Iguana. You should do the Iguana you should do You would be fantastic as Shannon. Now you what about you on stage? Well, miss set preising my famous TV role? Anytime in your schedule, I've done well. I've done three musicals on Broadway and one play on Broadway, and then we did something off Broadway together, and then I got to do in I did um, I got to do Guys and Dolls with Nathan Lane, um Carneie Hall.

So that's doesn't just a lot better than that and that role. You know Adelaide. We're both like twenty five years too old for it, but it doesn't matter because we're both the same. So I would like to do that on Broadway with with Nathan Um. But I just did another play with with him and Matthew Broderick called It's only a play. And then there's a new musical. There's a couple There are a couple of musicals like maybe um you know Gypsy or Um Sweeney Todd that

that I could do. But there's a new musical by the people who did Urine Town that I'm that I did a reading of in New York, that I really want to do. It's really funny and wrong. But I mean, doing eight shows a week on Broadway is is kind of hard. It is tough. I remember I would do I Heckt in MacArthur. I did Uh twenty century with Anne Hash And when you do too on Wednesday, that's one thing. But when you get to Saturday and see you have the flu and you're doing two shows and

it said it's it shows number six and seven. I remember we would do the Mattinee and I would lay on my couch in my my bed in my dress room, and I'd say, I hope that Robber has come and rob the box office and then come up to my room and shoot me on my bed and kill me because I can't go out and do this fucking play one more time. So I'm so tired and I'm in so much pain. And you know that when you're performing, you'll do anything to get you know, the show must

go on. So like they come up to you and say, we're gonna shoot some uh some gasoline in your ass to get you to go, and you're gonna take the shot of gasoline in the ask to get out. And you always have to give it your all. It's the thing for people like us, you know, you can't. I've I've worked with people I won't name any names, but I've worked with people who will sort of, um, you know, just phone it in, even god damn it cats out of the bed. Well, let me just say that, and

I'm not being a hokey here. Let me just say that whatever you do, everyone here will be watching because the two of you are so loved and admired and respected by your audience, and deservedly so, because you're both so unique and so original, which is which is not easy to find in this business anymore. And as two of the great originals in show business, thank you so much for coming and being thanks for having us. Thank you.

This week's show was recorded live at the Ace Hotel in downtown Los Angeles, thanks to KPCC Southern California Public Radio Alex Cohen, John Cone, Tony Federico, and Melissa La Case. This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing FOURT