Kevin Kline Takes a Bow, Several Times

I don't really, I mean I admire some of them, and I don't They've done a lot of them who I think I'd crawl over broken glass to work with, you know. But there are a few. There are a couple of people who their career and the work they've done and the way they've lived their lives in addition to the to their careers has always been so um just inspiring is the word. You know. There's there's not many of them, you know, and uh, and one of them is the gentleman I'm gonna introduce, so someone I've

admired my entire life. When I first came to New York to go to school in nineteen seventy nine. Soon thereafter, you know there's the Paul Davis posters of this guy playing Hamlet in New York. This was that you were told was you know you wanted to be this guy. You know he was like one of four or five people this is you wanted to have a career like so please welcome Kevin Klein. M What was it that

was in the an interview? I read that you said there was the guy from Juilliards and we taught you the guy that taught you this the fencing, he taught you how do you is a walking stick? And they told you when elizabethan bow? And what's the other kind of bow? He taught you, jackolbe any kind of about We learned to bow in every single period, restoration, restation, restoration, bow, give pick one that's your favorite. Let me see restoration. I'd have to go back to my notebook. Let's have

you appause again, and I remember this bow. This was like I don't remember the period, but I thought it must have been very silly. My favorite. Someone told me that Olivier had a bow where he'd come in and he'd taken the house right and then he come over and taken the house left, and then he had what he called the crush of humility, the crush of humility, um in your voice, training and so forth at school and beyond what is the St. Louis accident that you've

got rid of? How do people and saying there was talk oh uh, you know I I thought I didn't have an accent. I thought, well St. Louis is very neutral it And but what they do with Juliard is when you get there the day you arrive, as they tape you saying a bunch of sentences and then at the end of the first year and they play it back to you and you do and you start screaming

in horror at how regional you sound. And Edith Skinner, who was who wrote the book, which is the the textbook used by every everyone that I know, every every drama school. And one of the one of the students said Edith, when I went home at Christmas, all my friends said I sound affected and phony, and she said, change your friends. Now. When you grew up, your dad, I mean all the bio was there and there and they enter webs everywhere. Um that your dad owned a

music store and he was an opera singer. He's a trained singer. And you describe your mother as being a very theatrical character quote unquote. Was she an actress? Never? Never know? She was very colorful, she was very dramatic of Irish descent. And yeah, and you were went to Indiana from music. Yeah. I went there to study music two years, and then I realized the degree of mediocrity I had achieved. What you were more like your mother than your father. You're more actor than a musician. No, no,

I was a terrible actor. But I thought, this is hopeless. I could see my whole future before me, and it was utterly mediocre musically. Musically, I said, you'll be a band. Oh. In high school, I was playing rock and roll, which is part of the problem. When I went to study serious music, I had spent too much time, uh playing sock hops and bar Mitzvah's Um so yeah, rock and roll was my was my demise. But um no, I just I could see that I wasn't. I started too late,

and I didn't have the discipline. And I thought, well, what's did someone tell you you were talented as an actor? When I started doing plays in the theater department, all my musician friends would say, I saw you in the play. You should that's really good. You should do more of that. And when I would play the piano for my theater friends, they say, you really good. You should really stick with that. So I actually had to decide myself. And and they're

from very humble beginnings, you know. I started doing small parts and worked my way up. Uh in the theater. What was theater and film in your childhood? Meaning were you, you know, writing poetry and you were very sophisticated when you were young, or were you watching mcchale's Navy like the rest of us on TV? The latter I'd say, yeah, No, I wasn't. I went to movies. I did not go to the theater much until I was in it. Huh. Really in college a lot of theater, but um, it

was movies. I always wanted to I remember, not always, but maybe towards the end of my high school thinking, yeah, I'd like to do that. That looks Did you really think that he wanted to do because you know, this was in the sixties when being cool was everything. You know, he had to be like Paul Newman in hud He had to be cool and heartless, and and I had massed heartless, heartless? Did you see hud I saw, yeah, heartless? Roll down the windowhood? Where was it melt? Melvin Douglas?

Melvin Douglass? But he was an idol. But anyway, I was so cool, and I thought I could never be an actor because I I feel nothing. I remember my first acting class at at at Juilliard. I mean, I had taken some acting classes in college. But I remember you. Did you ever do those emotional re holes? Of course? And I want you to recreate a time when you were really, really angry, and I said, I've never been angry. I've never been angry. That's the first year. You're gonna

have to give me a minute here the fact angry? Now? Now? Did you? But but how did you go? I mean because obviously people as to this day think of Juilliard is this great temple of arts education. And when you how do you go from Indiana and you're not sure you're an actor? How the hell did you get into Juilliard? I asked myself the same question, because a career a huge accident. Is it like it's pretty much? But no,

it is. I think I think chance comes into it quite a bit and being at the right place at the right time, because I joined Juilliard in the third year of the four year program. That year they decided, we need so we have thrown so many students out and so many have left in desperation. Did we now have like twelve actors left out of the original thirty five. We need to fill out the class. So they brought in David Ogden Styres and me and Mary Joan Negro

to fill it in. And they brought me in because they and they told me that we need a leading man because we have all these character actors. And then they gave me character parts really because that was the whole the part of the training was to be the complete actor and to play character roles. And were you frightened when you were there? Did it scare you at all? Was it intimidating? Yes? And yes and no. I I had sort of. I've done it for two years. Well I did while I was in music school. That was

part of the problem. But I did it heavily my last two years of college and was actually part of a group that we formed our own company off campus and had our own theater and it's night and day. I was always I was doing a play in the main stage at the University Theater and also working at the in this little coffeehouse theater, doing satirical political reviews every week and improv. And we had a playwright and we started doing his plays. Um and so I had confidence.

I didn't didn't really deserve it. You didn't come from nowhere. I mean when you got to Juliard, you've done some theater. Yeah, and so and so were you in Juilliard? What do you I mean, this is a kind of a you know, a lazy question, but what what did you take away from that? What are your memories of what it did for you? What did it do for you? Well, it certainly polished me. I mean you asked me what my St. Louis accident was. St. Louis has a kind of lateral.

You know, those are fantastic pants you're wearing, man um now with those are fantastic pants. Those official the trousers and other pants. You learn not only how to pronounce the words correctly, but what are the correct It was a brilliant trousers, It's wonderful, but they but the verse, how to how to parse verse and break a breakdown of Shakespeare scene before it breaks you down, and and a lot of movement. I was very very very tight.

I was an athlete in high school. UM, and I could, you know, catch balls and things like that, but I couldn't when I was acting. I was very stiff all through college. And I was said, you know, I said, I don't know what to do with my hands. You know all that you know? Um and Juilliard suddenly they said, we're now come first thing in the morning with leotard and tights. Oh no, no, I I don't do leotards and tights. I don't know what sort of modern dances, kind of movement with an a Socolo who was a

student of Martha Graham's brilliant UM choreographer. And I'm an amazing teacher. UM. And so anyway, the short answer is, Um, I learned to loosen up physically and disinhibited, become more disinhibited physically. And now people people say, you really move your hands a lot like a European actor. Um. But anyway, that's beside the point. But but but but it loosened me up, and it polished my speech, and it made me appreciate Um,

Shakespeare much more. And listen any great conservatory, whether it's music or drama or dance. It gives you a protected place to practice your craft. And protected. When I say protected, I mean it's never more competitive. Once you get out as it was then and get up in front of the class to do a scene is much scarier than an opening night on Broadway. Uh, but um, it is protected and you get to you learn by doing it.

Is for how many people here clap if you're studying acting now or you had studied acting to the few people when you were there? Did you? Uh? Was it very production oriented? Did you do shows? Is? When I went to n y U for the Little for the brief time I was there, like a year and a half, it was the opposite. They were like, you know, you are nothing and you don't get the show to the Foy and you are nothing, lay on the floor and just breathe for three years, practice breathing. You know, not

very production But was it? Juilliard is exactly the same. But I missed those first two years they missed the lion on the floor here by by no by going into the third year, it became really production oriented. Costumes, makeup sets, Yeah, the whole plate. You were assigned a role and you did it. I missed those days. Um but um yeah, before then you did something in a studio with maybe a prop, but it was just about acting,

pure acting. And I missed all that. And when you got out of there, what was the gap between that and doing the soap opera? You left Juilliard and you were on the soap opera? How long? Three or four years? Oh? God, no, no, no no. I was in the I was in the acting company for four years, which was a company. I

was in the first graduating class of Julliard. John Houseman said, I just can't bear the idea, with all this training that we've given you, that you're gonna go off all of you are going to go out and do soap operas or sitcoms or movies, credit card commercial credit card commercials, podcasts, so whatever. Um so, I'm going to form you into

a company. And he formed us into the actor We were handed equity cars and put on a bus and we went and did the four plays that we had done in rep in our senior year and towards the country. I did that for four years, during which John Houseman won an oscar for the paper Chase and then started doing sitcoms and commercials and all the things he forbad

us to do. So anyway, and so I got out of the I forced myself out of the acting company that I've got to face reality and learn how to really wait tables, you know, and do what actors do, and pay my dues tables I never did. UM. It was such a rare and wonderful gift to have here. What what it used to be in the days of Olivier and Gilgood and those guys. You'd finished drama school and you'd go off to a rep company to Birmingham or wherever, and you would learn, you would do rep.

You would do a lot of plays. And that's what we did. UM and I did four years of UH play. We do a little season in New York and spend the rest of the year touring and UH. There's just no experience like it. You just really learn stuff, whether you whether you like it or not. But I finally had to leave that sort of take on the responsibility of a proper career outside the acting company. So UM, I did nothing for nine months. I was starving. UM. I was doing awful Broadway UM and they would pay

me subway fair. You know this, they pay for my subway. Um, but in those days, you would invite an agent to come and see you in your showcase production. That that's why I would showcase. Then damn Street, I can't evenmber. I don't think the street had a name where I was, but I did. I did a bunch of I got a job standing by for Raoul Julia and Free Penny Opera, which was fantastic because I got I got to I

had to watch the watch it every night. It was a wonderful production, directed by Richard Foreman, and I loved Raoul anyway. He never got sick, I never went on. But um, my point is that I also, having sworn never do a commercial or a soap opera, I got a part in a soap opera, Search for Tomorrow, Search for Tomorrow, and you played? I played, Would you read?

And I owned a modeling agency for only the most ulterior of motives, surrounded by beautiful and they needed your guidance, so I took them under my wing, as it were Haines's character. But I remember saying the first I say, please, can we come up with another name? Because I have to say my name, and to say, would you read it's going to come out ready wood or woodwind, flatulent or what what do you read? It's just as hideous name. No,

that's your name. Okay. So I did that for one year and it was great because I worked out once a week and I could continue doing my off of Broadways and standing by for Raoule and that kind of thing. And then I got a part in a musical and the rest is History, and the rest is history, which a hecked m well yeah, and a bunch of people. It was a musical based on a play that you did magnificently. I closed the Iron Door on I Closed the Iron Door and John Barramore did played this character

on film with Carol Lombard. It was called twentieth Century, A brilliant film, Thank you and um. This was a musical version that help Prince directed. Comden and Green wrote the book and lyrics like Coleman wrote the music, and Madeline con and John Column I did a little little nothing in the play that the Oscar and uh and Lily Garland. Lily Garland, Uh, they are in the musical more featured than her young Lotharia and in the musical,

it's different. In the musical, your part is a big the part you played the young boyfriend, and that was a huge part of the music. No, it wasn't. It wasn't it became a huge part. Do tell well it was a nothing part that I a friend of mine who turned down. My agent told me to turn it down.

I turned it down. But when I was delivering the script back, Joanna Merlin, who was helped Princess was wonderful actress and a brilliant casting director, said, oh, are you sure you don't want to do this, because it's you know, it would be a great You'd be part of the family, and the part could grow in rehearsals. You know, you

never know. Well, okay, I'll try it, and uh And I did it and the part did grow, and thanks to Madeline Cohn, who another action went He said, um, the guy who's doing all the stick and bouncing off the walls and doing all this stuff that's not written, could you fire him please? She didn't. In fact, she said, let's develop this, and we developed all this stuff and then we took the show out of town on thes like. Coleman wrote a song for me to do a duet. It grew and grew and grew, and I won a

Tony award. Um, no, no, And it was who was Oscar and that John call Um? Come on, come on, come on, come brilliant? Yeah, And you did that for how long? One year? One year? And right for the I won the Tony. I left. I said, are you crazy? You just want to Tony? How can you leave? I said, well, is this a great part of this wonderful Michael Weller play they're doing down at the Arena stage in Washington waiting. You're leaving New York to go to and to go

to Loose Ends. It was a play called Loose Ends. Um, and I love the play and Alan Schneider directed it, and then it moved to Broadway and I did it for nine months. But um, I was told I was crazy to do that. But does that become a guiding principle for you that you want to go do what you want to do that excites you, and you know, after you win the Tony, it's like we're done. Yeah. Either, I'd say it's a combination of doing what I want and being talked into things, Um, I don't want it,

but then making the most of them. Have you ever been talked to I can pour and talk at the same time. Have you ever been talked into things? Many things? Yeah, something you were talked into well where people would say, oh, no, you've got to do that, You've got to it's only four weeks. And like Pirates Appenzance, I had done. I've done this very physical comedy in on the twentieth Century, and then I went off into this serious Michael Weller played for a year and then oh that was offered

this silly Gilbert and Sullivan. I wasn't a huge Gilbert and Soul and Sullivan fan. And I was riding through the park on my girlfriend then girlfriend's bicycle and it was a beautiful day and four weeks in the park. What you know, how bad can it be? Um? And um I was. So I was riding my bike to my agents in order to turn it down. Um. The party had originally been offered to Raoul Julia and Raoul had to leave to go to Francis Coppola's Zootrope. Come.

But he had a rep company and when you've had that, we first started the Zoo Trope and he had this literally repertory company. So Raoul had to bow out, so suddenly the part was open and anyway, I said, okay, I'll do it four weeks with the hell and then it moved to Broadway for a year, and then we made a movie of it and did you win another Tony? Oh yeah. But it was a combination of it being a beautiful day and my agents ayn't come on, it's four weeks, Well why not? It won't won't kill you.

At the beginning of a relationship with Joe, yes, well, I admit him because I carried his spear one summer before I ever started Juilliard. Um, it came came up early before September and got a job carrying a spear and other items and actors carried Charles Derning once with seven other guys. M on a beer anyway, several beers. Any case, Um, long story short, it's too late for that. Um, never mind what Joe Joe? Yeah, I met him, but I and then I met him. I met him when

I was standing by for Rold Julia. I met him, but then when I did Pirates, then I met him and he kept saying nice to meet you, and I was like, you know, I didn't want to tell him that I had met it. Sure, but yeah, that's when I started. That was when he really met you and really I know you. Yeah, Oh, Joe Pap Joe Pap and describe what he was like when he first worked with him. Well, uh, I love Joe. I missed him

every day. He became a mentor and a kind of strict but loving father guide mentor um, and I'm very He came to the dress rehearsal and Wilfred Leach, the durgor, said, now Joe is probably gonna give you all notes. Be sure to ignore them. And uh, and Joe said to me after the brother he said, you know, uh, the pirates, these are all gentlemen, their peers of the realm, you know, so it's all. They're very sophisticate, there's not They're not goofballs,

you know. I went, That's that's all I'm doing is goofball you know. Um, that's all I got. So I went. I went to the director and to Grazilla Danielle de Carrever. I said, Joe says that the should be gentlemanly and dignified. They said, I told you not to listen to Joe because Joe he was right, um, but we had sort of gone another direction. Joe was Joe was great. The one thing that sometimes the notes you had to take.

But but you know, any actor who's had enough experience knows to take any note from your director, from your best friend, from your wife, from your fellow actor, take it all with a grain of salt. I remember John Travolta called when they announced we're gonna make a movie of Pirates. Depend sense John Travolta apparently I heard called Joe and said I want to play the pirate king. And Joe said, we have our pirate king. That was Joe. Joe was utterly loyal and um and demanded loyalty and

got it. And I would whether it was whatever, whatever play opening night, you'd come back and say, you say, okay, so next next year, what's it going to be? What are you ready to do Richard to or Hamlet or what do you want to do next? And he sort of exact a commitment and I needed that. And how soon after you do Pirates do you go to make

your first films right after that? Right? Yes, it was right during Pirates of Penzance we were still running it on Broadway and Alan Pacola offered me the part in Sophie's Choice, and and and he said it was something he saw in Pirates of Penzance that made him want to cast me. And I wasn't about to talk him out of it, but I thought, what an imagination. And he was all, I couldn't have had a better first director for a movie. He totally indulged the actors. It

was all, oh, yeah, the actors. We came on the set first thing in the morning. There's no crew, there's no shot that's been designed. It's like, what do you want to do? Shows where it shows? Show me where you want to go. And then he'd bring Nestor Elmendro is one of the great cinematographers, and the rest of the coup. Okay, watch this, and then we do what we wanted. Did you know Merril before the No, you've met her on that time? No, I met her once. Uh.

She came back to stage after Pirates of Penzance. In fact, I think that's right, bet her. And did you I mean, you've done the soap, You've done no TV, other TV, you'd only done the soap and uh, and so when you're on the set a coola Nestor Admiral been making a lot of films by then. She's just done The French Woman and Cramer Versus Creamer, a couple of others, but she's that was her first, big, big, her most

recent in Manhattan. Yeah. Yeah, And so when you do this film, do you like, are you sitting there saying to yourself, I wanna I'm gonna learn how to act differently in front of a camera. I remember Gracila Danielle, the choreographer for Pirates, because when we were as I said that the show was still going on Pirates, she said, you know, you can't do that, all that face stuff you do on film. You can't make those faces, okay. And other people have said, you know, it's film. Acting

is completely different from age. Acting is say oh no, oh, dear, well, okay, I'll just give it a shot. Um. But I learned after a while that acting is acting. The audience is much closer on film, and in fact, you can do more, uh in some ways on film that you can't do in the in the theater because the first row wouldn't even hear you. Um but um, but it wasn't adjustment fear ye, well because but I'm saying this to be just flattering. I mean, you are someone who's done both

at the highest level. You've given great, great performances in films and you've given great, great performances in the theater. But was it tough for you? Was it difficult fear? No? No, I didn't know. No, I mean it was scary because I thought, what if everything I've learned in the last whatever ten years of acting professionally on stage, if it's not applicable itself as a whole new skill set and I have to learn, it's going to be pretty daunting.

But no, it was. And Pecula said, think of filmmaking as rehearsal, where you try at a bunch of different times and then I'm going to pick the best one. But that's what rehearsing is. And each day you work on a scene or two of the play in the film, you shoot a scene or two of of the thing, and you work on it and do it a few times, and you trust the director. And also he invited me

to dailies. Did you find that helpful? Totally? And I am always taken aback when certain insecure directors don't want the actors to come to dailies because the first day I went, I saw, oh, the first of all, the way I was being lit was brilliant. Um, I mean

that's the character, I thought. And then I would go to Pocula and I'd say, okay, the it was the the first take of the first take, the for the beginning was good, and then right in the middle it was like taking why did you say that take three? Right for for for the middle part and the ending I thought worked best in take four, and he said, I totally agree. And then I knew that we were on the same page as it were, and the what I was seeing and what he was seeing, that we

were all in sync, that we were it was great. Actually, Meryl was a tremendous help. She remember once I was making a huge meal out of just me doing had to give Stingo, the character's name. I had to give him some money because he had been robbed, and I was doing, you know, you're a writer, you need this money in Biliba and I was just emoting, and she said, just just give him money and just or you can just say it, you know, just say it. You don't have to and and so yeah, probably, I guess I

was doing too much. I know, I certainly was, but but I was helped by Pecula and U and Meryl. And what a great thing to have your first movie with a great director like Pecola. God, he was so such a spoiler. Who were some of the other directors

even in the theater that helped you well. Jerry Friedman directed my class in school for Scandal when we were still at Juilliard, and then we went into our repertory, and then years later he directed to Live Danner and me in What You Do About Nothing in the Park. He was a wonderful director. Um and uh, I learned he was the first one like Pecula. Pecula did the

same thing in terms of empowering the actor. Pecola would say to me, look, whatever we've talked about in this scene, what we think it's about, or what you know, what could happen if you get a different impulse during that scene. Forget what I said, forge at what we plan. You follow your impulses. The character was this psychopath and had to be unpredictable, and he wanted it to be as spontaneous as possible. And then again I was blessed with Meryl,

who Meryl's. Meryl said don't don't. Don't be afraid you're gonna hurt me, because a lot of it was very physical. She said, you can't, which I took us a challenge, of course, but she was right. And and Picola said do what you want. And the same way Jerry Friedman on in the theater was the first director to say, Okay, we're just gonna sit around the table and read it, and when you feel like moving, get up and move.

And pretty soon the tables are cleared away and we're moving around, and we're moving when we want to move. We're not waiting for the director to say you can now walk over there, now, put your hand in your pocket, now say it this way. Now, that's what And he was the and it was that empowerments like you decide what does this mean to you? What? What? How do you want to do this? And that that was the that was the key to for me, both on stage

and film, and those directors, the directors I love. Larry Kastin is the same way Larry's how many movies have you made with Casson? Why what about him? He lets you contribute, He doesn't tell you what to do. He wants to see what you're gonna do, and he'll guide you back to the road if you've strayed too far afield and make a suggestion. But he loves actors. Peter Bogdanovitch told me a story about was it Howard Hawks

or John Ford who directed Big River? Whoever did john Wayne was saying, Hey, this guy in Montgomery, Cliff, this new kid, he's got these big emotional scenes and I I've only got a you know, a couple of lines here, and I need I need some other big scenes. And he said, Duke, you need three good moments in the film. The rest of the time you just try not to annoy the audience. Kevin Klein has nailed that advice. Coming up, how we almost missed his surprise oscar Win and why

his mom wasn't going to let that happen. Explore the here's the thing archives. I speak with Julianne Moore, who also spent some of her early years working on a soap opera. I used to do what they called emotional applicate, where if I had to say something that was really just plot oriented, I try to like cry on top of it or laugh on top of it. Or anything, just to make it mean something. Take a listen that here's the thing, dot Org. This is Alec Baldwin and

you're listening to hear is the thing. A few big name actors managed to avoid Hollywood typecasting, but my guest today, Kevin Klein has that rare power to reinvent himself and delight audiences in the process. Compare his early role in Sophie's Choice with a later one like a fish cold Wanda. You know, once you start making movies or become a big star on Broadway or whatever it is, and you're offered things, you don't have to audition anymore, it's a

terrible burden. Well it's it's it's a great, great it really is. No. But in in drama school, you're you're assigned or in the old meal days of the early days of movies, you were assigned a role. You're gonna play Red Butler and gone into it. Well all right, um, you know, and you just did it and did what you were told. But now you want to do this, so you want to do that, You want to do this,

you want to do that. Uh, I don't know. You have to choose your you know, and you have to have people that can counsel you, was going to advise you. What's the movie like? Did you start to get excited about being in movies? And oh, god, I'm so excited. What's the one that you just said? God, I'm so excited I'm doing this movie Sophie's Choice. Yeah, it was my first one. It was like insane. I was like,

I can't believe this is unbelievable. I didn't I didn't have to start being the pizza delivery guy with one line and work my way up. I just was hit the ground running. I mean, I've been toiling desperately in the theater for ten years. And God rest his soul, and God love him, wanted an unknown. He didn't want any baggage. You wanted someone that you couldn't predict what they were going to do. And that's me. No one knows who the hell I am. What What do you

think people hire you for. It's very tricky that sometimes you you you you become suspicious that it's for the wrong reasons. Because now the way the movie business works, a lot of times they would like can we use your name? Will you attach yourself to this movie? In the old days, like the movies green Lit, it's happening, you're offered a part. Yes, no, okay, Now it's will

you attach yourself to this movie? And then if we get another a few people to attach themselves and they have a certain amount of guaranteed box office revenue in foreign sales, blah blah blah, we will be able to raise the money to make this movie. Okay. So a lot of times I think, well, they obviously just need some they just name for that. I'm not right for this part. They don't like my work, they hate me,

they don't care about me, they don't love me. But it's like that with those you're in meetings now because the business is completely overtaken now by non creative people. They don't have any back on as writers or you know whatever, as producers. So everything is about gaming at me. I mean, the joke in Hollywood is you're having a meeting with him about, you know, the biography of Thomas Jefferson, and they said, who's gonna play Sally Hemmings And they're like, well,

Sandra Bullick is gonna play how Sally Hemmings? I who else could they be? They complain, you know, I I mean it's so it's so cynical that way. When um, when I did the movie, Dave uh, I love that movie, me too. I love that movie, and I of course I turned it down first, but I was I was talked into it, and I'm glad I was. But Ivan Rightman told me, said, the studio is pressuring me to

use Arnold Schwarzenegger. And I tried to explain to them that if you're Austrian, you cannot be President of the West. Of course, the irony is years later he became governor of California and probably could have run for president and may still who knows, But he just thought it was he had to kind of force me on the studio. And I'm glad he did. Now a movie, so I'm sorry. It's actually it's actually a fish cold wander, right, because the British, the British British, you shout out when you're

expressing love and admiration. For Mr knew exactly a fish cold Wanda, which to an American here sounds like, well, how did the fish know how to use a telephone? Why would they you know? But that's the British, you know locution. Anyway, A fish cold Wanda. That part was written for me by John Clees. He wrote it. Have you known him before him? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I knew him. Um. We had met many times over the years and we'd

always have dinner and we're talking. And then he did a little part in Silverado and we actually shared a house for a couple of weeks that he worked, and it was there when he told me he said, I'm thinking of a film, an idea, and I'll and he he actually told me he said, I've you know, a year or so later when he wrote the first draft, and he said, I've written something for you where you were the most evil person in the world and you were run over by a steamroller and you eat Michael

Palin's Tropical Fish also sounds great. Um, let's do it, um, and never thinking it would ever get made or anything, and you want an Oscar for that film? I did you have an idea that you were going to win? Pardon me? Did you think you were going to win? Oh? God, no, you didn't. Not for a moment. I was actually rehearsing I Love You to Death in l A at the time. Yeah, that's the problem. You see a smattering um, not that

big a hit, but a wonderful movie. And I was working on my Italian accent for the role and UM, and the Oscars were coming up, and I was just very ensconced in that, trying to master an Italian accent. And then I said, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna. I'm just gonna stay home and work on my accent because we start shooting in four days whatever. I'm not going to go to the Oscars. Everyone tells me I'm not gonna win, apparently people who were following the odds

makers or whatever. I said, you're not even a dark horse. You're not like oh and chemic cut never mind and um. And I'm rehearsing with River Phoenix, who's nominated also for UM Running on Empty. We're in the same category. And he's so sick. He was so sweet. I hope you win. I hope you win. You're so great in this movie. But anyway, so I'm nominated. I call my home and my mother says, we're all gathered around the TV tomorrow night to watch. And I said, Mom, I'm I'm not going.

I got I got a lot of work to do. I'm doing this and I'm not gonna win, and I don't. I just it's a long evening, so I'm not gonna go. She said, who do you think you are? You'll go get right out there. You do exactly, and he went, I'm not tupsy. Though that was like okay, okay, okay, I'll go. Um and then went, I won. I really I had. I was stunned when they said your name, I was stunn went I was sorry. It's a strange thing.

Is a strange thing. I remember. I was presented the award by Sean Connery, Michael Caine and um, there were three Brits and Roger Moore and they were they were all They're presenting and doing Britt Britt jokes, you know. And then they said and the winner is Kevin and then they kind of ushered me off stage, and I just said the F word about twenty times, and I thought, why am I cursing? This is like a I couldn't

believe it be it was. There was no contempt on camera, no, no, no, you know, as they but I thought they must like I'm completely insane, and I just kept saying it just was a catch all word that covered a myriad of emotions from contempt to Disgraced and Rome as what's your head? I was like, yeah, a scream out fun. I didn't know what it meant, and then I learned later on it meant nothing except that people Oscar and Kevin Klein um and that that was it. But but it didn't change.

Oh didn't you change your career? No? I was didn't. Were you too offered more comedy rules? Yes? But I was being offered more comedy rules because I did a fish called Wanda, not because I want an Oscar for it? What what? What did you go shoot right after that? What movies did you make? Right of the one that I'd rather not discuss? Uh? But then I did? I Love You to Death? And the one you read discuss because you just didn't like making the movie wasn't fun.

It was called The January Man it was it wasn't not. Yeah, it wasn't fun because I thought it was a comedy and they I don't think the director did. And I didn't realize that until halfway through. No, it was a John. So everyone's in an operating movement. You're going, yeah, what are you doing? Oh I'm a doctor. But but any way, you it was a John Patrick Shamley script, and Shamley is ironic, and you know, funny, everything's and funny. So

I saw the whole thing as a satire. And the director we talked about it before doing it, and I thought, he but it is it didn't it didn't want you to do after that, I Love you to death, yea, which was the most fun maybe I've ever had. Oh my god, it was brilliantly funny script based on the true story of a guy who's white. He didn't see it, and I've seen love definitely. Who directed the film, Lawrence, has have you ever written any films or written any scripts? No?

I rewrite. I do know, because we were talking earlier about both of us having worked on a soap opera that someone told me about about the second week, said, you don't have to say the lines that are written. You can rewrite any of this. No one cares, okay, And I started to learn I would because these lines were unutterably, inutterable, awful, horrible. So I did a lot of rewriting. I learned a lot about rewriting and now, and I'm sure you feel the same way, not only

with comedies, but and it started with Sophie's choice. Meryl said, are you saying the lines has written? And I said, yeah, just you don't have to if it doesn't fit in your mouth, you know, and if it's you can. She saw me worrying about saying the line right, you know, and getting into the word perfect. And I was used to four or five weeks of rehearsal. We had three weeks of rehearsal for Sophie's choice. But Meryl didn't want to rehearse we want She wanted to, well, let's just talk,

let's have it happen while the camera's running. Well that's interesting. But I didn't have that repetition that you get in rehearsals, so the lines. So she saw that I was struggling to just say, you know what you're saying. You can sprint in your own words. One of my favorite films of yours, I mean one of them, I mean there's a few, one of my favorite films. It was is In and Out, I Love, I Love not Move. Thank you. Was that a good experience for you? Was that a

good experience for you? Yeah, it was a great experience. He was, yeah, great fun. And I mean Frank Ozz was terrific as a director, and Joan Cusack surprised. Yeah, just amazing. Everyone and Tom Selick, everyone was a delight. It was. It was most fun and and except for rare occasions, Frank ozz was that kind of my favorite kind of director, like show me what you want to do here he let us do your thing. Oh we am I mistaken? I don't think we mistaken? Are we

going to take some questions? Here? Is that right? Do we do we have Mike? Do we have Mike's repet? Which one year? What's coming up? In your hand? If you have a question, who said what's coming up next? Okay, that's my stand un please, and you want to know for what's coming up next? For Kevin? Here we go, Kevin, what's coming up next? Did I say that right? Um? Nothing,

I don't know. I don't know. I'm I'll be reading a script on the car home and my agent wants me to call right after I finish it because they're offering me a huge pay day. Another question for Kevin, Thank you very much, Sat, thank you. Another question for Kevin Martory? How you no? And I remember I had a friend, a producer friend said, oh, you're gonna do a movie with John Clees and Michael Palin. From the part I mean that that's very British humor. It's not

the same as our humor. And I said, I don't care. I mean, first of all, I don't I don't believe in I think humor is humor. What's funny is universally funny if it's human um And I adored Monty Python for me the opportunity to work with Michael Palin and John Clees. I don't care if anyone sees it or any or if it sucks. I wanna. I want that experience. There was no question about doing it. I didn't know

it was going to be a big hit. I didn't know while making it it was going to be a hit of any kind at All I knew was it was great fun to do. And my favorite day I think on this was one day when I was I got to direct John and Michael in a scene. I wasn't even in the scene, but by directing, all I did was remember in rehearsals you did this. It was much slower and it was much more excruciating when you're trying to get him to say cath Kart Towers and I think you're rushing, but if you slow down and

and he did, and it it's in the movie. And I directed John Please and Michael Palin in comedy acting that was fun. Um uh. I wanted to say, um. I wanted to say a couple of quick things because we're out of time, and that is thank you to Kevin for making the time. But I'm under the impression you don't do a lot of this and U um no. But I mean, like a lot of press, I don't. I hate I hate interviews. I don't like them at all.

And and but I want to say that, you know, in my lifetime, it's it's always the same thing comes back to me. And as that the people I've observed that I admire and you are, you know, surely one of the most admired actors in my lifetime in this business. And I want to say, but I want to say that, um that the people who are great like you can't be great, You just can't. You can be good if you have two of these. You can't be great if you have one of these. But if you have two

of these traits, you can be good. But you can't be great. But you can really be great if you have all three of these traits for men, and that is masculinity, intelligence, and sensitivity, and you exhibit all those things in all the films that you've made, and you're really great. They're really a pleasure to watch your career. What was the middle thing? What was the middle thing? What was the middle thing? Yeah, it was intelligence. What

I'm going to emasculated intelligence, sensitive, sensitivity. Ken. Thank you so much, Alec, Thank you all very much. Kevin Klein. We want more of you. Here's hoping that script you read in the car will give us that opportunity. Thanks to everyone at the Two River Theater in Red Bank, New Jersey, from making this possible. This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to here's the thing two