Joe Dallesandro Thought Warhol Made Soup

Sticky Fingers. You know the one I mean? Joe says, it's a close up of him or a certain part of him in jeans. Delessandro also starred in many of Andy Warhol's films. In Flesh, he played a male hustler who Lou Reed later immortalized in his song take a Walk on the wild Side singing Little Joe never once gave it away. With his street mentality and pin up boy looks, Delessandro quickly found both a gay and straight following. As a young man. He hadn't set his sights on

being an erotic art film icon. He had much more humble aspirations. My dream was to own a pizza shop, and and make pizzas. And that's what I started doing when I was like fourteen, and I worked at a pizza shop where This was in Queens Queen's right on Union Turnpike in Floral Park area, so it was a nice neighborhood. It was Lorenzo's pizza and I learned how to cook not just pizza, but in these big pizza ovens, and learned how to take those pants and make steaks

and make all sorts of food. Who taught you to cook? This Italian? His name was, There was Lorenzo, and there was seventeen, no seventeen something like that. I can't remember. A long time ago. Was just a youngster. And when you were working with Lorenzo and Sabatino in Floral Park, what happened? What? What? What? What detoured your pizza career? My juvenile delinquency? I uh, it was a little crooked and went off doing some bad things and I got myself sent away to h to a place school. School.

You had to learn how to chop down trees. And I used to think those trees grew that way. I didn't know you had to prune them to make them. And I do it. You know, trees just grew with no branches at the bottom, but now you have to cross. So they set you up there to prune, prune trees and and make the forest look lovely. No. No, when you when you were a kid, it was tough. You

you had a tough childhood, bouncing back and forth your father. Well, I had made a promise to my father if he'd finally take me home to state lived with him, that i'd behave because I grew up been uh, forced to care well, basically only two families, but the first family was the The major part of my childhood was with

that family. Had a good experience with them. Yeah, it's just at a certain age you just want to be with you know, when you see your father once a month, and each each month you you go back to the to the other home, you just feel, I don't know, I felt as a child that you know, this is not where I need to be. I need Yeah. And that tide of calling somebody who wasn't my mommy mommy, or or daddy that weren't my father. Were they kind to you? Those two people they said they they had

their own two children. Uh, the first one was I was brought to be display mate in the second one was a miracle baby, and so, uh we they used to tell me that, you know that we would treat it just like their own. You know that there was they showed no partiality between us, but there was there was a great great amount of difference in the way that I grew up there, and there was a little partiality. Yeah. Yeah, it's like all of her twist. Well, I was told, you know, the story is when I was a baby,

how I came to be at that home. The people that wanted to take children would come to this window and look in on the kids and select from the window, like a puppy in the window. And they told me that. I went to the window and said, will you be my mommy? Yeah, And I kind of think that my kind of attitude. It was that there was a heavy set woman and I must have thought that meant food

and she's eating. Well, yeah, take me with you. Why about what you're You've been the puppy in the window that's been selected by people your whole life, haven't it again? And that's how it stayed. I never understood the looked thing because I didn't see it. Uh, But people took some nice pictures of me over the years, and that's not who fell. Yeah, that's not who I saw. I saw something completely different. When you decided you wanted to go with your dad, where was your mom? She was

out of the picture. Yeah, she was completely out of the picture. And what'd your dad do for a living? He's an electronic engineer, worked in Sperry Ran it was was he working on the island or in the city in Minneola that's Long Islands, Nassau County. We moved from Brooklyn to Babylon when I was in the third grade or second grade. Was it weird to be on the island coming from the city, Well, it was weird of

moving back to the city, well Brooklyn. When we lived in Brooklyn, you know, that was a different different things because I was going to Catholic school there and when we moved out to Long Island, I was going to a public school. And I didn't get hit anymore for not grossing my hands the right way, you know. So, so what were the circumstances on which the guy shot you and thought you had a piece on you? What happened? I was in a stolen vehicle and I you stole

the vehicle. Yeah, so you were moving up in the world in that Crook department was It wasn't like I was selling cars areny It was just me enjoy riding mostly and selling nice tires and bucket seats, and it was a hobby. It wasn't a career. If the stuff came off the car, I tried to sell it. But you know, the people were older than me that we're buying this ship, and they just usually took advantage of that. And if they were mean, they were just taken and

not pay me. And another pattern in your life. You're doing all the work and you're not getting paid. And then so the guy would think I shot you. Yeah, he's going through a tunnel and didn't pay the toll. At one end, when I came out at the other, they had a blocked the street with officers standing with their guns pointed. So at one hand went down to open the door, and when I came back up to put them up, they thought. They said, we thought you were coming up with a gun, and how old are you?

Then that's fifteen. You're fifteen years old getting shot with NYPD. Yeah, my god, it doesn't matter what I did. It was juvenile delinquency, and so it was basically, you know, me making the decision on what place I was going to go to. You know, they gave me a choice of different places, and they showed me the brochures and camp casts looked like a really lovely place. Where was that upstate? Yeah,

in the cats and near the Cats Skills. So it wasn't it wasn't a bad place, but it was not a fresh place that an inter city kid could get around in very well. You know, how long were you there? I think I was there maybe four months, and then what happened? I decided I didn't like that place, so they took off. How hard was that to do? Difficult at all. It's for somebody that knew how to live in the woods and camp and stuff like that, which I kind of knew who who talked. I went camping

with friends when I lived in Long Island. We went out. We had a state park near us with a lake and everything, and it was kind of nice. You pick up things you can use that are useful. You learn how to camp in the woods, just in case you need to escape from a juvenile detention centering. You don't know that what's down the road. You know, it was just you having fun. When you went out and stayed out overnight. It wasn't it wasn't any planned camping trip.

We didn't have tents or anything like that. We just went out and stayed out all night. So when you get out of the space you were escape, you're on the lamb, so to speak from the pass. How long you doing that? How does that last? Who finds you? Well, I decided that I was gonna go to California and uh and so I did one more small thing, barred money, basically without them knowing about it. And I went out to California with this money, doing a bus trip, and

I took a friend with me. So I borrowed this money kind of permanently. And it was enough to go to California and buy a pair of cowboy boots and Texas and have to sell them back to the guy. How old were you when you arrived in California? So you're still fifteen years old. You're really packing a lot of excitement into this year. It was a good year. That's a whole chapter in your book right there. And

you arrived That's when I started my mind in Korea. Well, I want to get to that, because no, now your dad is still in New York. Do you stay in touch with him or you lose contact with him while you're spread your wings out? And we didn't stay in contact you And where'd you go? What town? Eventually I wound up in l A. I had done to Texas and to Mexico. I went, and I uh then came back out of Mexico and back to Texas and he hitched. The ride was real kind of I was lucky with hitching,

you know. I got it ride all the way up to Los Angeles to the train station where I got left off in l A. And made contact with what a nice guy who took me back to his place, you know. So it's foster care all over here. Yeah. And he lived in Watts and it was I got there and I, you know, i'd heard this was the slum area or the bad area. And I get there and I see these apartments with swimming pools and stuff. I say, you got a swimming pool? I said, how could you say this is the slum area? You out

of your mind? This is this is incredible. So when they found this modeling job for me to do, I'm not sure, I do that. It makes some money. When did it hit you as it does? Like these little girls go to pageants, you know, they're they're like the John Benet Ramsay thing where and they realize the power they have. And when did you realize you had that power over people? Where they just they just like to look at you and they didn't want to stop looking

at you all day long? Well, when did that hit you? Hin? Of I am knew that people treated me nice because of the way I look just for showing up. Did you did you had a few people like that in New York that also when I went back there and just we're happened? Had me come to dinner because I looked nice? I was a decoration. And then when you were in l A. Did you go with an agency and somebody repped you this criminal type guy? This was not any this was you know, Oh you're so strong,

who you should do this? This muscle modeling? You know, we'll show your muscles and everything. Did you work out a lot? No? I never worked out. You never worked out your whole life ever? Oh come on, never, are you kidding me? My god? It's like you would drop down a tree, you know, a lot of trees, so you you but with like your physical culture, if you will, you were in a runner or a surfer or a ball player or like what you did nothing to stay

in tree whatever worked out. I mean, your your tree shopping career is behind you now and you're you know when I was, when I was really young, I wanted to play football, so I had a lot of potatists so I could gain some weight. And you never gained a pound. And you know, I I think I've lost about an inch and a half since I've gotten older. I've gotten shorter, and I keep getting shorter. It seems like my wife tells and tells, me, well, you're very you know, you're tall. Uh. And I used to always

a quite uh a person's age with their height. I used to think, oh, that's an adult because they're they're tall. And I think of myself as a kid because I'm so short. Anyway, the criminal guy who's the modeling agency, how did that play out? Well, he introduces me to this person that wants to that does these uh these photographs, and they said, you know, look, Joe rubbed this oil on you. And it starts out real, you know, really easy, you know, it's nothing, nothing that's too frightening to a

person that's you know, being first introduced to it. It's just, you know, take your clothes off and stand over there and nude. Yeah, and for you did you feel that in that world you want to nose for people you could trust and not trust. Yeah, So the guy says, oil up and stand over there naked. You knew you were cool. Nothing was gonna happen there. Yeah. Did you find it weird? Yeah? I thought it was real weird. But I was gonna get fifty dollars, a whole fifty dollars.

That was a lot of money back then, you know, and I thought, wow, fifty dollars was standing So yeah, Joe making put job up like like you're making a muscle Joe, you know. And shortly after that, I have a fight with the guy that introduced me to this modeling people because he had this scam that he wanted to do. He wanted to blackmail somebody. You wanted me to do something and doing that and also it's a stupid ship, you know. So I got angry and he

got he got violent. He was an ex coun that was, you know, gonna show his toughness, not to me anyway. He broke a bottle to come at me, and I knocked the bottle out of his hand and went on the ground and broke and uh he uh. He did a little dance with him. Yeah. He fell on the glass and got all cut up. You know. Well actually I threw him on the glass and he got all cut up. No, No, he fell on the glass. Yeah, and were holding him down. You were trying to help him.

He tried to press charges against you. Yeah, he tried to do a listen on since. Anyway, we went to court and they reached you, my father and say, you know your your sons out here, and oh you need to send them back, you know, put him on a plane and I'll send you the money. Where'd you live them? When he got to New York, I stayed with him for a week and then went out on my own again. It was the plan when you were back in New York. Well, the modeling thing again, did you think this is good money?

I never thought about it, about the modeling thing, you know, it wasn't something that I knew anybody. I had a couple of friends in New York that introduced me to other people. And and then one day one of these friends, uh said, Hey, I know this person that's uh making these Campbell soup can you know, makes the candle soup? And I was thinking we were going to eat some soup, which I was all for. You're gonna go to the Campbell soup factory? Yeah, whatever, Pennsylvania. I had no idea

where it was. You could take a picture of you oiled up, said there's somebody sitting behind a camera reading a newspaper, so I couldn't see who it was or what it was, you know, but they wanted to introduce me that this Campbell soup Andy Warhole guy that I had. You know, I didn't know who Andy Warho was or you know, before I met them. Mine I had married young lady, my first my first wife. Ah no, I had to be eighteen then. So but it was why did you get married when you're right there was a

premium for you. Why did you get married? My father was dating her mother, and my father wanted to she got herself pregnant. My father said, you know, you should take we should take this person, and he should own up to his responsibility of his kids were the father I was also got pregnant with somebody else. My father said, we'll take him to court, you know, And and I kept telling my father, you shouldn't do that, and you shouldn't push her to do that, because he's gonna come

in with a bunch. This is Brooklyn, you know, and he can come a bunch of guys saying we all slept with her and nothing's going to ever come from which one of us as the father. Yeah, that's back before DNA and all that other ship. Thank god for DNA. Yeah, anyway, so you decided to marry her. I decided to marry her and give the kid my name. You know what kind of work did you do that? I was a book binder, went to Actually I was assembly line and

didn't do anything except in the city, Ye, Manhattan. Who know why that job? Because my uncle ran the ran the show was his business. Yeah, well I don't know if it was his business, but he ran the shop. So was there a part of you when you're in Jersey and your book binding? And he got a sixteen year old bride has got a kid, and we're not quite sure who in the Brooklyn gang is really the father. Do you sit there and go I missed standing they're oiled up in a room naked getting the fifty bucks

from these guys. I don't know, did you miss that? Yeah? And then you and then you go meet the guy who's behind the newspaper, who makes the soup, who's gonna make you soup for lunch? What happened there? He drops the newspaper. What happens? Obviously he became very fond of you, very quickly. Well, it wasn't him. It was the guy that was standing to decide of the camera and giving

all the instructions to everybody. That was Paul Morrissy. So he's the one that suggested that I'd be in the film, because you know, he was this character that asked everything about your life, and I had told him, you know, and junior high had played on the wrestling team. He says, Oh, that's a good idea. We'll have you do that with Undine. You'll you'll teach him wrestling. So let's film that. We'll film that. What do you describe Morrissey? Then Marcy real smart,

real educated, he had He was a Fordham graduate. He was a social worker before in New York City where he really saw these uh strange people that he had, you know, work with. Uh. So he had plenty of great stories and he he shot these films that was shot. There were silent films I saw. I watched a couple of them. They were pretty good films. Your movie goer them, you're luck, Yeah, oh I was. I loved the movies. I didn't want to be in them. I just liked

watching them. But when you watch the movies at Morrissey and or a warhol Man, they weren't like movies you saw in the theater. When I yeah, I thought they were a joke. I thought that. Well, when we were shooting this one thing the soup day they were shifting, they asked me to be in the thing and I shot this most scene and they came over to me after we were done, and uh they asked me to sign a release. I said, you're not gonna this is just for fun. Nobody's gonna ever see this. This is

it's just I thought, just like a whole movie. I didn't think they were gonna, you know, ever show this anywhere. And thought it was a joke because what was happening there was you know, pretty silly, you know, it wasn't you know, anything I ever saw in the theater. It was unfamiliar. Yeah. Really, I signed the release thinking it

would never be released. And and then later on they called me and uh, if I would them to photograph me for the advertising of this film that they you know, they shot with me first, before this movie that was supposed to be a twenty four hour movie that turned into Loves of Undine. They cut it into a smooth that was your first movie, and that was my first movie with him. But before that was ever released, they had called me up and he did to ask me

to be in another movie. And then he put Paul on the phone, Who's told me, Yeah, Joe, we're going out to Arizona to shoot a western. Would you like to be in the West end? I said, sure, that'd be great, but you gotta pay me what I would I make at the book binding place, because I can't take off. I'm married now. I got to take care of my all this bullshit, Yeah about what I was making? Paid you exactly what you made? Probably they would. They

were always cheap. They didn't want to pay somebody too much. And then somebody else asked for the same thing. You know, isn't amazing you sit in a room back in nineteen sixty seven with a bunch of people who later on the soup Can guy would sell his paintings for tens of millions of dollars. Yeah, he becomes one of the richest artists in history. Did you have an artistic sensibility but you thought that these guys were or you just

as you said, it was just unfamiliar and silly. Well in the beginning, and you know it all it wasn't for me and and and He's art. You know, we all participated in making the Andy art. They had said, you know, after we had shot the Cowboy movie and we came back, I thought that was it. Go back to book binding. And you know I called Paul asking about the Western and uh. He had told me that he had a job for me at the factory. And he said, okay, you know, be happy to give up

what I was doing, you know, do something there. And I went down to the factory and that was the day then, and he was shot when I showed up to the factory to work there. Coming up more on Joe Delessandro's relationship with Andy Warhol and why he eventually stopped working with him, Explore the Here's the Thing Archives. I talked to Eric Scheiner, director of the Andy Warhol Museum, on how the shooting affected Andy and his work. It was a huge wake up call and he really did

start to think about business in a much more serious way. Mortality, immortality. Take a listen that Here's the Thing Dot Org. This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. The Pole Morrissey Trilogy has made up of three films, Flesh, Trash, and Heat, directed by Morrissey and produced by Andy Warhol. They depict the semi side of the late sixties and early seventies. My guest today, Joe Delessandro, start in all of them. Today Joe lives in Los Angeles with his

wife Kim, and manages an apartment building. Back then, Joe was quick to anger, but also had a Devil may care attitude. He needed someone to look out for him. Paul took on that role. Me and Paul were real close and and Paul became like my mentor. He was well educated, and he he knew the movie industry. He knew the movies and the actors and the and the directors, and he knew all about the business. And and you know, there was a big part of the making of these

silly little films that was business. They were you know, there were all these uh the films that we had to ship off to universities because we had a They had a big following throughout the world. The films themselves, I guess they were thought of as you know art or the introduction of uh of underground filmmaking to the people.

You know, they they had that kind of thing. I would think over in Paris and in France and Italy where they made these kind of film one type of things, and they made these uh I haven't God type movies. And Paul would say, you know, whenever I had something against the movies, he would say, you know, these movies will one day be in the museums, so don't be upset with this scene. You know, they're they're not They're not the same as something you know, sleazy or anything

like that. This is this is art, you know, And he would you and you needed to be sold on that again and again. Yeah, he would do it for every time he would ask me to of a piece of clothing in the film. Was he after you? No, No, Paul is strictly an a sexual type guy. I never knew him to have never read anybody. I mean, not that that matters, but I mean I'm just curious because the people that came on to me, you know, over the years, I would imagine it was a nonstopping it was.

It was not not he was never one of them. But when you're there in that world, I mean, where's the love in your life when you're working with them? Was it just the love of being counted as one of them? Is an important part of this family? Could you fall in love with people that you met? Did you fall in love with men and women that you met? Or like, where where do you become emotionally mature during this because I would imagine you must have had hundreds

and hundreds of opportunity. Imagine every woman in Hollywood came in there and said, here's my phone number. They at least want to have dinner with you. Yeah, it was kind of nice. Whatever, could you fall in love them? No? What happened was they take like, no, no, they take they take me to the parties and the dinner parties. They would be drinking going on, and of course I'd want to drink and Paul would later on tell me that he noticed that I drank, you know, too much,

and I didn't stop. He was your coach, Yeah, and he said, uh when I when we go out to these events, you can't drink, you drink. I can't have your puffy tomorrow. He didn't care about puffy. But he would also try to control what I ate ship you know, I said, but Paul, you eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. I'm not going to eat the crap that you eat. You know. He had a lot of instructions for me

to be a better person. He he was a little pig million in the relations He would he would upset me, and then when I get upset and want to knock his teeth out, he would, uh, yeah, pretty much, I would every everything with Morrisey. Sounds like it was an effect for filmmaking pretty much. He would make me upset to just make me get past that where I wouldn't. He was always afraid I was going to hit a

reporter or something like that. So he did this stuff to push my buttons, and he would run and hide behind the door, and I would crash through the door and you'd go behind another one, and I get to that one, and by the time I got to the second door, I realized that, you know, I have to fix these fucking doors. You know, so this is not a not a smart thing to do. Better to just talk. And so I calmed down and say, okay, I understand, now, let's let's talk about this. He was like a manager. Yeah,

mainly I worked for them. I did these after when Andy got shot. Paul decided that we had all this row stock of film there and that we were going to go out and and he was gonna do a film without Andy there, you know, which Morrissey made many films and right, yeah, and he would come and visit, but he isn't you know, he was busy doing lithos. Yeah, yeah, he's are At some point, you're not just in the family there with Paul and Andy and the photography and

the films. You become a celebrity in your own right, and your photographed for Rolling Stone, and you're photographed by Scuboolo. And when you step outside that home and other people want to kind of get into the whole iconography business with you and photograph you. Were you just as comfortable with them? Did you feel as protected as you with them. Whenever I do these shoots with School or any of the other people, Paul was there or Andy was there, they were doing a shoot too. It wasn't I went

down there on my own, you know. I was introduced to these people and then it was everywhere. Yeah, it was. It was a session that was connected with the the Andy Woho films, so they were either they were doing a story on Andy promote their product. Yeah, and I just happened to be a pretty boy that they did a couple of extra shots with, you know, because I photographed well, I don't know, uh, you photographed very well.

Your photographed quite well. Well pulled back then he used to he used to get photographed to and he he had this his one side that he would always do. And he said, that's just the only side I can be photographed by, you know, Okay, Paul. Yeah, Now, now what about what about drugs and alcohol in your life? Then? None? None? Well, I see, you know, if I couldn't drink socially with these people out there, because Paul said I drank too much, I wasn't a person that was going to go home

and drink by myself and or in my house. I was never a guy that you know, came back after work and and said again, I gotta have a drink or or you know, got off from the job for the weekend and said let me get a six pack or a twelve pack. You know, I didn't do that. It wasn't that kind of drinking. So when I when I got done with my Warhole days, uh, and we did our last two films together here it's got to be seventies seventy one. That was I guess the end.

You know, at the end, I didn't want to work with them anymore because now I came to understand that, you know, I did these movies with them, and they were getting a lot of play, and people were recognizing Paul always as my men to told me, you can't fall into this thing with the reporters of you know, what they say good about you, because then you gotta believe what they say bad about you, and you don't want to be in the Mickey Mouse Club. Yeah. So

I didn't go around and saying I'm a superstar. You know, I didn't believe in any of that. It was all nonsense. Still to me, Uh, it was fun doing the movies and we had a good time with it, and Paul would push me, you know, to do you know a little more than I would want to do felt comfortable with. And I tried to get comfortable with it all because, you know, he said it was necessary for the film

and telling the story. And a lot of the stories that we were told were you know, things that I shared about my life, you know, from the hustling with Flesh, you know, you know what do you mean? You know, yeah, you were how much I participated in in the story with with you know, making other films. Well, the thing is, I told, you know, Paul was interested in knowing all about me, So I told him parts of my life,

you know, um in a kind of way. But no, not the kind that you know everybody says, not the kind of portrayed in in the movie. I knew when people you know were interested in me, and and and I get people to do more for me if I just you know, show up and yeah, leading them on to believing there was setting down the road. And uh, of course, and you said I gotta go make a phone call. You were going, yeah, pretty much. But that whole thing, you know, got me in trouble a couple

of times, you know. So it was and stuff that I felt comfortable with. So I was real happy when I admit the whole people who was on my own? What's the first movie you make? It's a thing over in Puerto Rico. We shoot called The Gardener. Paul wanted me to do a real movie. Uh, work with a real crew and and you know, so that I would know the difference between you know who that guy named Jim Kay. I'm pretty sure that's his name, Jim ka Um.

What kind of part of your part? Well? I played the gardener, the lead role, and there was the actress was the girl who was in the guests Who's Coming to Dinner Partier's wife. Yeah, she was, Uh, she makes a lot of films, but she was in this and uh, I was this gardener that basically controlled the plants and I turned into a tree at the end. Yeah, you're familiar territory. Yeah, and it was you know, it was

a fun film to make. What was it like for you to make a film like you show up on a set and they go, we gotta shoot five or six pages today It's just everything that we did always felt felt so natural to me, you know, it was really easy came to me. It wasn't something that I felt I had to be taught, you know. Anyway, So we we shot this film down on Puerto Rico. I think it took a month. But what I came to understand is I got I think I got paid thirty thousand,

eight or twenty nine thousand dollars for this film. Now I'd never been paid you're a b yeah from from Andy, never made nothing moving Paris. Now now I made these att this money, and I just felt like, did that make you more funk? You to Andy and those guys pretty much, because the next thing I had to do after I did this film, When I finished this film and I had my wife with me, I had my mother in law, the first wife. This is my second wife. Okay, we skipped over the fun Where did you meet her

in New York? And man and while you were in the warhole and you fell in love with her? Well, it was one of those things Paul said, you got to do the right thing. She was Mommy, yeah, okay, your old school, he's a shop. Marry the girl. You're like out of a Springsteen song. And she knew I was going through this thing with my first wife, where I was trying to, you know, get a certain amount

of visitation with my son. And so she she knew I didn't want to go out and have any more you know kids, because I already had you know, a tough situation yeah going on. And she said it was an accident, but it just seemed like it was too contrived to be an accident. You know, I want to you know, she she would come and stay with me and go out and buy you know, curtains for the windows and stuff, and you know, making an eyelid, which I didn't give a shit about, but you know, she

was making my little apartment there into a home. How did Surge gains profid Remember now, now I'm living in Italy. I've been making movies for a while. I made three films a year for close to ten years over there. I went over there and made the Frankenstein and Dracula and and the last two films I made with Woho because after I finished The Gardener, I had these two films signed to do with the Paul over In. What they did is they made a contract up with Ponti

to have these films made. Car Yeah, in Andy Brownsburg, they were the producers, and they wanted Andy to be you know, his name to be connected to the films, and Paul as the director, and they wanted me to be there and the star. Uh that's how it read, because you know, they saw that we had made these other films, the trilogy had been made, and they were

doing really well. I mean, people aren't stupid me with Me and Paul were going over to Europe for a while now every year to sell one of these films. And what they would do is they would sell flesh and they would package with that movie bike Boy, and I Amn, so Andy would sell these other films, you know, with my one movie that they wanted package. Yeah, package deal. So they always said that, you know, the film that they really promoted when it was opening over there was

the film that I was in. They weren't promoting in the same the same way Bike Boy or I am in, you know, and I just kind of felt like, you know, Paul had made this deal with me that I would get a percentage of of the producers of their share, Andy and Paul's share, two and a half percent from Paul and to an half percent from Andy, which later on when Paul was given all the films that became five percent I was supposed to get from Paul and over the years, I you know, I never saw any

of it. Who's the best director you ever worked? I mean I always say the best, but who's one that you sat there and go, man, I really dig do with us. I like shooting scenes with the sky or this woman surge again, which describe that God. Well, there was a small role that Gerard the Padre played in the film. He was doing a Mocko Ferrari film in Italy and he would fight up from Italy to be in this Uh this is your tim would surge. And we were all drinkers back then. We drink all day

and Searche was a big drinker. But it didn't interfere with our work. Uh. We all worked real hard. I would always ask, you know, search if he wanted me to do some of the lines in French, and he would say no, no, no, no, no, Joe. When you when you try to speak French, your whole face contorts. I don't want that. Yeah, yeah, just do English. And uh so this was a real treat to be working in a film where my my, my co star Jane is uh, married to my director and they have a

beautiful marriage. And and I and I gotta pretend that this is my you know, that I'm attracted and this is my lover. It's supposed to be a real sexy movie, and it turns out that way. It's kind of real bizarre. If you liked the film when it came out, yeah, I liked what I did. Yeah, Yeah, What was happening to your own sexuality when you were doing these films by that time? I I just I just thought I was marvelous. You know, here's how I heres how I

rate my sexuality. You know, my me and my brother lived together and we had we had beds that was side by side. And one day my brother is having sex while I'm in the upper bed pretending to be asleep, and he's going on for on none and about forty five fifty minutes later he finishes up. So the next morning when we really get up and they go, you know, Bobby, you're doing it. If it if it takes more than fifteen seconds, you're doing it a little wrong. Because I

was the fifteen second man. And I came to find out many years later that my brother was doing all my early girlfriend to see you in you know, when he said you were the wrong tella song. He said, you know my brother maybe then, the one that's got the career in the movies that you're trying to to

be with. But we can put his poster on the wall while you bang me, if that's what you prefer now now and at the same time, because this is a weird, non secret, but I've always this kind of stuff is always so weird to me because I mean I love music, and I even love, you know, the rock and roll music of my generation. You know, uh, when I was young. I don't listen to much popular music now actually kind of puts me off. But but so watch you on the cover of Sticky Fingers. They say,

is that correct? That is you? So wasn't it funny to me? I mean, this is a this is an admittedly really dumb thing to say, but I can't help it. You got the most famous crotch shot in history and cultural history. Did they give you any money for that? No, it had nothing to do with me. Then. What it was was Andy was asked to give it, but it didn't hadn't from Andy. Yeah, and and he just you know, gave him a bunch of them, and they selected the one that I recognize as my belt and my you know,

your personality. It is me, and and yeah that rolling Stone finally admits that it's me. So that's kind of cool. Yeah, you know, he took I don't know a hundred years, but I'm glad we could set the recursitor on National Public Radio. That's your uh, that's your Florida peninsula down. Now. The other thing is that, um uh, how did coppel to find you? We'll see that said. That's you know, back when I had done this trilogy with Paul Um, people were interested in working with me, you know, and

they thought he's pretty interesting character. Let's see, let's see what he can do. But and he would say to people, you know, I think he does drugs. And Paul would tell people that would ask about me, I don't think he can do a script. I don't think he can. And I thought, how fucking insane this is. You know, these are the people that are you know, supposed to be in my corner, and they're not saying anything wonderful about me. They're saying a bunch of crap, you know.

So this is this is basically before we went off to Italy to do the film. So when that came back to me, I said, you know, these people aren't in my corner. I don't I don't want to do any more work with them. I'm through. But Cobra came around when he was getting ready to do The Godfather for the first time. You know, Uh, there was mentioned, you know, maybe we should see this new underground person.

But like I said, you know, nobody wanted to get involved with somebody who has no you know, no training or anything like that. And it's it's told by the person that's made the films with him that they don't believe that he could do a script. So when we went to do Frankenstein and Dracula, when I finally agree that you know, yeah, I'll do these things if you you pay me right and give me that percentage that I asked for. And there must be any line that I say in your film has to be written for me.

I'm not going to do one bit of improvisation, you know. And it all has to be written of scripted, yea scripted and given to me. And so every day they wrote my role, uh, and pretty much everybody that was in the film there, their stuff was written, you know, Um, because a couple of the swings around later for you to do Cotton Club. Yeah, it was just the kind of afterthought, let's put you know, let's meet I think

Fred Rouse, who was you know, his producer. Yeah, he they called me and just meet with me, and and he said, when have you read it? A couple of lines first, you know, And I didn't even meet Frances that they or he might have been there. Now you go on and you make other films, and you do TV, and you're working with Richard Pryor, and you're working with

uh yeah, Solderberg. You know, Bruce Willis had done a die Hard and I hoped, you know, yeah, I get to work with Blake Edwards and Richard Sunset bruns It and Jim Ghanner and and I thought, there's gotta be a success, you know because all that you know, all it takes is you're hitting in a in a film that's a success. And then you just keep moving on

to those type of holmes. You know, they don't they don't make you, you know, it helps go beg for the Pennies anyway, never turned out for me, you know. Now recently, um, you got this Teddy Award from in two thousand nine for LGBT. Is that something that's a cause that's important to you? Nothing's ever important to me. It's just why do you think they chose you? I

don't know. I never figured. I guess because I have a body of work that you know, they see that sexual liberation and I've done a lot of things and I was one of the first, you know, I was there before a lot of toll that. Uh. And you know the fact that me and Kim, we we get ourselves involved. You know, maybe I don't have a lot of money, but we get ourselves involved with taking care of the homes right now. Um, you know we do. We do all of this with my with my fans

participating in it too. And but Kim is the one that does the going out in the street and interacting with them. She's pretty tough. Yeah, yeah, I can't tell her. It can be dangerous, but she does some crazy. She's a good partner. Yeah, she's mean. She's mean in fact, the way the reason I chose her in my life, we we used to go to this program together and she walked into the meeting and she had these lips that went all the way down here touch in and

I said, nobody can be that angry. She just can't be that angry. And I said, but she's the girl for me, and we me the angriest girl in the sp Where are your sons now? H Ones in Brooklyn and doing um the Brooklyn one. H. I think he's got an army for a family. Uh, Mikey, he's um. He's always done hard labor. He's he's a tough man. And and your other son, uh, Joe Jr. Please tell me he has a pizza place, but he has a

lovely home in Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania. Did she shake your head Jack, Pennsylvania? Yeah, she's shaking, yes, Okay, yeah, Pennsylvania. Has a house and he's he's separated from his wife, and he has a son from the marriage that he's kept and he's raised. My hat's off to him because he's done something that his own father was incapable of doing, and he's doing a real good job of it. You know, have you found love in your life? Ah mm hmm as much as you can love the The angriest woman the meeting

with the mouth turned down. You know, she's been so long in my life. Then, you know, I've always loved and cared about her, you know, but she can be He's so mean. I mean this morning she was ready to kill me again. She she came in to do the paper work for me because I had to. I had to take a bath and a shave for this. Uh sitting down even though there's no camera here's uh. I don't know why I had to shave or get cleaned up. Could have came in her dirty good you

look pretty good anyway. So I got ready for this and and she did my paper work this morning and got mad because it didn't you know, there was money missing. And you know, you are this icon. I mean you are like you are a piece of art. You are a work of art, and you and and and all these people made money off you, and you're this work of art and you're like, you're like this male sexual ideal, beyond James Dean, beyond Brad Pitt, beyond any of these

but all the the god thing. But you're the greatest guy that ever lived because you chopped the trees down at the fucking detention center and then escaped and lived in the woods. That's the guy in that picture. Did that. You are such a strange bird. You're a really odd bird. And I'm so grateful for you for doing the show. I'm very very grateful for for doing this man, Thank

you for taking the time. Director John Waters says Joe Delessandro quote forever changed male sexuality in cinema unquote knowing Delessandro, he didn't have to try that hard to do it. After I talked with Joe in Los Angeles, I called him up. He wanted to talk more about his relationship with the LGBT community, and your relationship with that community began where and how? I mean, I mean, the obvious question is are you l g B or T well, And I'm not any of those things. I don't think. No, Uh,

you're a little Joe. I'm a little Joe basically. You know, I'm a kind of blank canvas, which you know, at least all my fans and people to project their fantasies and desires on, you know. Like I had had a friend here that I watched TV with, you know, on a regular basis, you know, on the the Game of Thrones, we were involved in watching that series, and he would come over on a Sunday night he's a gay friend

for you know, many years. And and then one day, oh, I don't know, about six months ago, he decided that I shouldn't be married to my wife, that I'm that I'm gay, and that that we should live together. The other thing is, you know, I've never made any kind of declaration. Yeah, that he that I'm open for or looking for a relationship with somebody other than my wife. And uh, well, I must say my brief encounter watching

TV into let's move in together is like so weird. Well, my my, I must say, my brief encounter with your wife leads me to think that when he says you should leave your wife and go living with him and go marry him, that Kim might say, he's all yours. You can have him. Yeah, exactly, Yeah, I gotta I gotta take the mail from the mail and hold on one second. We can't. You can't stage that. That's perfect, Joe, It's okay, while you just grabbed the mail, could you

hold on a second. I gotta go walk my dog. Can you hold on? Well, I mean, obviously you've had a sensitivity and you've had an openness to this from day one when you first started working with all those guys that are Arcy and and Andy and people you've made films worth because that was a very kind of

sexually uh open minded crowd. And are there any groups in particular that you have you know, when I was when I was a real young kid, when I was doing the car eating stuff and part of myself as a tough guy, I would have wound up in prison or or you know, for the rest of my life, probably because I would have wound up killing somebody because I was just so violent. And when I met the wall people they brought me, you know, and a few

gay friends, they calmed me down. They made me realize that I didn't have to beat people up when I saw them all the time, you know, I didn't have to go off on something that somebody says to me. And it took a little while, but you know it, finally I finally understood it. Are there any organizations in particular that you've worked with closely or that you well for many years? I was involved with a from many many years. What about LGBT groups have you been involved

with glad or I don't. I don't go out there anything to do with sexuality. I don't you know right now there's nothing sexual about me, you know, so I don't have a problem with my sexuality. You know, you get to a certain age, you know. I always used to think when I was a younger man and I couldn't get the thought of sex out of my head, that that would never that obsession would never go away.

And uh, we used to have a meeting with my sponsor once a week and we had a one of our members he didn't have that obsession of mine, and the other members that will come into the meeting, we all we all kind of wondered why, why, why, And then we come to find out, of course that he's HIV positive and that's pretty much why he was able to give it up. But I never thought the obsessive,

you know, obsessiveness about sex would ever go away. And when it when one day it did, I was just you know, so happy, you know that my mind didn't have to have to think about sex, you know, every fifteen or thirty seconds. So that was you know, gave freed me up for cartoons. You know, it kind of bores bores me when I when I see because you know, I did all the sexual things in the in the films and stuff. So when I see other people doing it, it's nothing that turns me on in anyway. So you know,

I'd rather watch something else. I wouldn't rather watch the cowboy on a horse, or or the spaceman flying with his space shoes or something, you know, something that's total fantasy. You know, you are someone who just is such a striking presence. You know, your physical power, your masculinity, your good looks and if of thing. And when you look back, do you like that guy? Do you look at that guy and go, yeah, he was. I don't see the guy as me. That's what's so cool about it. When

I see that guy that that could be. You know, I think the guy that I see is very cool, but I don't see it as me. The way I live my life and everything, I never actually talked about uh, acting or films with anybody here where you know, now reside and and do my little life thing here. Uh it's it's you know, it's cool that I had a chance to do do film and and I love I

love working at it. It's a real fun thing. But the guy that is in front of the camera is not the same guy that I walk around with every day he's somebody else. I don't know how I how I do it, it's just um. Then the person that photographed me either has a different eye than I do, because when I look in the mirror, I don't see that same person. This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to here's the thing O