Jeopardy! Champion Amy Schneider Wins By Being Herself

three million dollars in winnings. But it was Amy Schneider's warmth and charm behind the podium that quickly endeared her to Jeopardy audiences around the world. Schneider is back now, competing in the Jeopardy Tournament of Champions this month, but before we get to that, I wanted to know what it was like for her the first time the phone rang and a voice on the other end said You're going to be on Jeopardy. It was the fall of and you know, it was something I've been trying for

for a long time. And I got a text and it was like, Hey, this is John from Jeopardy. Do you have time to talk this afternoon. It's it's good news. And so I, you know, pretty much knew what it was, and you know, we talked and he said that I was going to be on the show. Yeah. So you've been auditioning for years. What do you think it was

this time that made you successful? Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, to an extent, I don't know that's the secrets of the Jeopardy casting process, but I definitely think a big factor was that it was the first time I had reached the sort of in person although it was over zoom auditions, since I transitioned, and I realized looking back on it, I mean even when I just looked like old pictures of myself some you know, the occasional old videos of myself, like I'm just so closed

off and so like, you know, not wanting to reveal anything about myself and and not wanting to give anything away, and that, you know, is not the case anymore, and that's that's not how I am now that I've transitioned, And so I think I was just much more like lively and engaging to them, you know, to be on camera than that I had been in the past. Oh, that's so interesting. I mean, I'm sort of done by that right off the bat, that it's bringing your full

self to the table. Is something that allowed you to achieve this lifelong dream. Yeah. No, And that's been like a sort of just unexpected lesson of transitioning that that I think can apply to a lot of people. Is that, like, you know, I just thought it was something I had to do and it was going to make my life harder in a lot of ways, but I just needed to. But then it's it's made my life easier in a ton of ways that I just didn't think about and

didn't expect. You know that when you're being yourself and whatever you're doing, you're you're just more successful at it and things come easier. And that's that's not something I expected to happen. Wow, it's so it's beautiful. And I want to talk a little bit more about that, about the transition later and about that part of your life. But first, so you get the call from Jeopardy from

this text message in the in the afternoon. How long is it between the time that you find out that you are going to be a contestant on Jeopardy and the time that you actually have to pack your bags and and go walk into that studio. Yeah, so generally it's like three or four weeks, like coming down in three weeks, that will be the date you tape your episodes.

And I did. I flew down to l A. And then that afternoon they called and they were like, hey, there's been an issue like negotiations with the union over COVID, you know, protocols or whatever, and so we're we're just going to have to cancel taping and we'll reschedule you

for a few weeks later. So I flew back home, and then in the intervening time, Alex passed away, and so you know, obviously everything was kind of up in the air, and they eventually, for for me and a few other people that were kind of in my position that have been rescheduled a couple of times, they decided to just put us on hold until they were sure things were stable and they wouldn't have to reschedule us again.

But they didn't. They didn't actually tell us that. So I was just like waiting a year, being like, is this really going to happen? Are they like? Have I been tricked to a dream that it was a weird interlude there, did you say a year? Yeah, so wait a minute, You've achieved your dream and now you have to wait a year and tell me what are you doing in that year? Are you preparing yourself, are you

giving up hope? Combination of all of this. Yeah, So, I mean, I guess what I'd say is that, like the way the Jeopardy audition process works is that once you get to that last stage, they just tell you, Okay, you're in the You're in the pool for the next eighteen months, and in that eighteen months you might get a call to be like, hey, you're on the show. And if you don't, then you didn't start over from

the beginning. And so it was not the first time in my life that had been in that kind of state of this might be happening soon, so you know, and I was just doing kind of what I've always done, which is basically nothing too intense, but mainly just like during my downtimes, going through old games online, old questions and just sort of looking for things that I was consistently not knowing, or you know, patterns of things that that they focus on that that might be unexpected, Like

you know, they talk about like Edith Wharton and Henry James and like turn of the century authors, like a lot more than most people are. You know, they have these weird kind of like you know, things that they're they're disproportionately focused on. So yeah, So I mean, like that's just something that I've you know, done off and on for the you know, twelve thirteen years that I've

been auditioning, and so I just you know, kept doing that. Wow, So You've been preparing for this a long time, and I think probably your whole life building up this brain network. I want to know, what else are you reading encyclopedias? Are you keeping up with the news, are you calling friends? What are you doing? Yeah? One thing I'd say is that apart from the like going through the old Jeopardy games, like I'm not doing much like specifically studying for Jeopardy.

I've just always been just sort of curious and wanting to explore and find out new things. So like, you know, for you know, as long as it's been around. When I'm protrastinating at work, one of my things I'll do is just kind of go to Wikipedia and sort of just like click around and find something interesting and then and read up on it. I mean I've always been a big reader. Sometimes starting in my like mid twenties, I really like started gravitating towards history and reading a

lot of that. And that's that's true to this day. That's like probably like fifty of what I read, and so that too. I think his returns out to be really useful for Jeopardy and you know, life, because it kind of touches everything, like, you know, everything you know, a good work of history will tie into you know, economics and politics and science and gender relations and art and and everything else. Can you know fit into that? Oh for sure. Now there's a pattern that I think

is really interesting. You studied computer science. Ken Jennings, who's the current host of Jeopardy and the longest reigning champion, also studied computer science, and Matt Emotio, who is now below you as the third longest streak in Jeopardy history with thirty seven wins, also has a PhD in computer science. I found that really surprising because you don't think of that as a subject that a lot of questions are about. But do you have a theories or something about the

computer science brain. Yeah, I think that there's a certain type of person that gets into programming because you know, and this is at least the case for me, because of kind of the creative side of it. You know, it is something that it's got the career security that creative writing and art and things like that don't have. But at the same time, you are kind of starting with a blank page and being like, make a thing.

That's why some people get into it. Some people just have these really like orderly logical minds that fit well to it, and those I don't think are going to be as well suited to jeopardy. But I think if you're interested in that. And the other thing that I found fascinating about it was that it's really about translation.

That you're taking something a human said and telling it to a computer, and that forces you to realize all the like unstated assumptions and you know, subtext and everything else that go into you know, human language, because the computer doesn't know anything, it isn't going to assume anything, and you have to tell it all explicitly, and so it requires you to understand things kind of in a deep way in order to tell them to a computer.

And so if you're interested in like diving into things like that there's a good chance that you'll apply that interest, not just programming budget, to just whatever else. One of the things about me, but like I always you know, didn't quite fit in in the industry, was that like a lot of programmers will work all day and then go home and then write more code at night for

their own personal projects. And that was never me. I was like, that's fine for the day, but I've got other stuff I want to do with the rest of my time, like what oh, you know, like I've always had like various half finished projects going on, like if I've always needed to have something creative going on in my life. For for most of my life, that was theater, and it was like if I went, you know, maybe six months without being in a play, I'd get like itchy and I feel like I needed to do it again.

And then in the last ten years or so, it's just the time commitment, I just haven't really been able to do that. So I've been finding other things I've done, like stand up comedy. One of the big things I've done was podcasting at a Doubt Nappy podcast. For a long time, that until now was my claim to fame. It was it was reasonably successful. I've got probably like ten twenty things that are like ideas I had and started on and abandoned that I intend to pick up

again someday. Yeah. Okay, wait, we're taking a little detour here, but I have to know, is there a dream role that you have in theater that you'd like to play one day? Yeah? I think, you know, I think I wound up like doing a lot of comic roles in my time, so definitely one of the like big, you know, tragedy ones. I think both McBeth and Lady McBeth are fascinating roles that i'd be by be interested in. I think, yeah, oh wow, imagine playing both of them on alternating nights

or something like that. Right, Yeah, that would be something that would be fascinating. Oh and the other one would be one of the three leads in Rosencranson Guild and Sturner Dead. That's that's maybe my favorite play. M M. I love it. Okay, back to Jeopardy. So we've got the brain prep and I guess it sounds to me almost I'm picturing like neural networks that you're building in your in your mind almost as a web for mental preparation.

But then there's also the physical preparation of button clicking, buzzer pressing, Like you got to be good at the buzzer, So how did you go about preparing for that aspect of being on Jeopardy. Yeah, I mean, you know, there's only so much you can do, so I definitely i'd read you know, past champions and the advice of they've given, and certainly, you know, when I was watching the game at home, i'd have like a ballpoint pen just to

sort of get in the habit of like that. Absolutely okay, But the thing about it is like you can't really know, Like the way the buzzer works is that there's somebody flipping a switch that enables them and turns on some lights by the side of the board when the when the host finishes the question, and if you buzz in before they've flipped that switch, then when they do flip the switch, your buzzer is locked out for a quarter second, and so other people will be able to get in

ahead of you. And so it's really like it's just all about like, you know, being in tune with that person and you know, no, you know, feeling when they're about to do it so like I had, you know, I had read that advice and I went in with a certain strategy of like, okay, you sort of aim for like the last syllable of the clue as the hostess reading it and things like that, and it was doing okay, but it wasn't really it wasn't doing well enough.

I mean, it was up against this really good champion in my first game, and so for whatever reason, I just in the middle of it was just just decided to kind of throw that out and just stop trying to time it and just going by like intuition and just feeling when the right moment was. And it worked and it it kept working. So you know, it's like, I don't know if that would work for everyone, but that that's how it was for me. Let's talk about

that first game. Tell me what it was like the first time you walked onto the Alextro Bug stage at Sony Pictures Studios, Like, what how did it compare to what you had dreamed of? Yeah, walking on the stage was you know, it was a lot And that was really I think the biggest, you know, some of the most important preparation I did was in the last week or two before taping, because I realized that, like I was so afraid of losing that like it was getting

kind of paralyzing and becoming counterproductive. And so really in that time, I was really focusing on lowering the stakes for myself and saying, it's fine, like if you go on and lose, you go on and lose. It's definitely a possibility that really might happen, and it would be okay if it did, you know, and you're just there to like be in the moment, have fun, enjoy the experience,

and let the chips fall where they may. And so, you know, I was definitely it was definitely an effort that that you know, anxiety and that tension and everything was still trying to creep in there, and I was like having to actively hold it down. But I'm glad I really did that preparation. I don't I think I

wouldn't have had a chance without it. That's massive, I mean, it's a whole It sounds to me like like what an elite athlete would have to do in order to cite themselves up for an Olympic game or to like to keep their head in it. Yeah. Absolutely, it's funny because I am a sports fan, and like, I don't hang out I hang out with like, you know, actors and comedians and artists, and like I never have anybody

to talk sports with. But it was like, especially as it went on, I really was finding myself being like, I really start to understand these sort of sports cliches and the sort of like the answers that athletes given interviews that are kind of like formulaic. Like I really started to see that competition and that that trying to be you know, completely focused, trying to be at the

peak of your game. I was surprised by how suddenly relatable I felt like professional athletes were, oh yeah, and the endurance of it as well, Like I read somewhere that you tape five episodes in a day, which is fine if you're you know, in for a couple episodes and then you lose, But if you're on a forty game winning street, can you please paint the picture for me of like what it is like to actually compete in five full episodes of Jeopardy one day. It's a lot,

you know. One thing about it is that during the game itself, like it goes at such a fast pace that it's like there's like not time to be fatigued or whatever. Like you you sort of don't notice it, but yeah, I mean, especially like after the first full day that I did, I definitely I was just so

physically tired. At the end of it. I really focused on, you know, the next day, I was there really conserving my energy through everything else through through the rest of the day, Like every time the cameras rof I was like leaning on the podium and like stretching out my legs, giving my feet a rest, that sort of thing, because it is it's it's like an eleven hour day and you do too a week, and like by the end of that second day, it was just like I was done.

How do you even have the energy to walk like go back to your hotel? You just go back to your hotel room and flop on the bed. I did. I did. I would go and just lie down and like do nothing, Like I wouldn't look at my phone, I wouldn't think, I wouldn't like just do anything, just like lie there until I could like start the function again. Yeah. Yeah, And it's so weird too, because you're having this experience kind of privately, like it's not airing as it's taping.

You're taping these episodes that will air, you know, months in advance, So that has to be a very strange feeling as well. I would think it definitely was. I mean, I think overall, I'm glad that it worked that way. I think, you know, a few things, Like one is that I was really bummed as it was leading up to my final episode because I knew. I was like, Oh, all these people are going to be so sad that

I lose, you know. And so if I if my episodes have been airing, and I'd sort of had at pressure of like knowing that people were like rooting for me, that that would have made it harder, I think, And I think that, you know. And it also like and there was no studio audience. It was just the other contestants and the crew, and so that also made it easier to just ignore the cameras and not worry too

much about that stuff. But then when I was at home and and and you know, and then in the weeks after I was done taping and leading up to the airing of the episodes, that was really strange. You know.

I told a few people, probably more than I really should have, but you know, still it was it was a secret from a lot of people, and it was just like I knew I had done this historic thing, and I knew that this was going to be a huge deal and you know, kind of a life changing thing, and yet nobody knew about it, and I couldn't talk about it. It was it was really weird. Oh, for sure, it had to be. Were you watching the episodes with people?

Certainly Genevieve every night, my girlfriend at the time, and you know, reasonably often we'd go over. There's a you know, a couple that lives near Ross. We would go over

to their house. For the first episode, we had like a whole watch party, like my friend's got an airbnb and we had like eight or ten people, and like it was it was a whole event, and we kind of did a bit for the last episode two, but otherwise it was just like, yeah, we were just kind of living our lives and you know, if somebody happened to be over, we'd watch with them, and if not,

it was just with us. You're probably like, if we have a watch party every episode that I'm on Friends, you're in for a long like a month and a half of Watch period. I mean that was the other thing. Those those first couple of episodes. I'm getting, like the first you know, five episodes. I've got these people who are text me every time being like, oh, good job, and I'm like, you don't know what you've the commitment you've signed up for if you're going to be texting

this every time. Jeopardy champion Amy Schneider. If you like conversations about competitive game shows, check out our episode with host of That's My jam An, executive producer of Password, Jimmy Fallon. My mom goes, you know that Tom Cruise is great. Thanks watching. He looked really good with his long hand. You, he says his Tom Cruise, Yeah, I really liked his long hair. I go, yeah, he looks good with long hair. He's Tom Cruise. Yeah I really like his long hair. I go, I heard you the

first three time. Okay, I'm giving you a hint to grow your hair out. It's too short to hang up the phone. Oh, I started hooking up. I started make hands, returning green, I short started a rip. Here more of Alex conversation with Jimmy Fallon in our archives at Here's the Thing dot org. After the break, I talked to Amy Schneider about the mixed feelings she had when her epic Jeopardy run finally ended. I'm Talia Schlanger, and you're

listening to Here's the thing. Amy Schneider broke multiple records in her Jeopardy run this winter. She's currently number five on the all time total winnings list. She also holds the second longest of victory streak and is the winningest woman in Jeopardy history. I was curious about her strategy

for tackling the infamous Jeopardy board. The one sort of like specific strategy thing I had was to like go after categories that I felt weaker in first, so that there wouldn't be as much money at stake if there

is a daily double. But beyond that, my sort of meta strategy or that, the way I was thinking about it was, I just wanted as few things to think about as possible, so I didn't do too much about like thinking about like, you know, a lot of recent champions have gone for the higher value that you know, amounts first, or like jumping around to keep it, pull off balance or things like that, and I didn't want

to do that for a couple of reasons. One is that you know, it was an extra thing to think about, and it would you know, I wanted a simple just like choose the next clue in the category and then I don't have to think about and make that decision. But the other thing is I've been watching the show my whole life, and I know that it makes the

show better. And you know, I love the show, and I knew it had have been having a tough time, and especially as I was going on, I just like I wanted to serve the show and put on a good show and understand the people at home, and I knew that they would appreciate that you did. I think people really fell in love with you. My folks would tell me about you all the time, like how like they and they're they're not alone, Like so many people really just fell fell in love with you, and I

think really enjoyed rooting for you. And it's probably weird to analyze yourself in this way, but I mean, you've watched yourself on the show. I don't know if you have a take or an idea about what that is. Yeah, I mean I I do. I think that you know, I definitely had like debated going in about like how was going to present myself in in certain ways and like around my femininity and my voice and different things like that, and also you know, just in general, how

do I want to be on TV? And I eventually decided partly in that like don't give myself too many variables. Was just like, I'm just going to be myself and be as just like authentic as I can be. And because if I did that, then I knew that I would be okay with how I came off on TV, whether or not, you know, people liked it or connected with it or whatever, you know, And so I wasn't really worrying about whether I'd be connecting with people or not.

I was just focused on, you know, ignore that, stay in the game, be myself, and what will happen happens. And I think absolutely I think that people saw that, and you know, saw that they were seeing like the real me, and and that's what they responded to. Yeah, regarding your your voice and your choice to speak in your natural speaking register, can you explain to me, like have you done gender affirming voice therapy in your outside

of Jeopardy life to speak a bit differently? I did it was It was a few years ago, earlier in my transition, and if I was put to it, I

could like speak in a more feminine voice. It's about like just first of all, it's just like you know, speaking that higher pitch, but there's also other things about like being breathier, like speaking more in your head and less in your chest, doing more up talk and being more pleasant that way, and that sort of thing, which I kind of do naturally anyway, And that was my intention was to do that because I really, you know, I going into this in particular, I really didn't like

my voice. I didn't like hearing it. I you know, I've done a podcast. I was used to hearing it, but I never liked it getting called sir on the phone would like really like bump me out a lot, and all those sorts of things. And so I really couldn't imagine like not doing that feminine voice on TV until like the days leading up to it, and it just suddenly felt wrong and in ways that I couldn't quite define to myself at the time. But it was

the right decision. I think that. For one thing, like it kind of forced me through that dysphoria and that dislike because everybody liked me fine, and it wasn't the big problem that you know, it's that was in my head. And the other thing that I realized afterwards that I think I was subconsciously thinking about is that, you know,

this is how most trans women's voice sounds. Like changing your voice is is doable, but it's like really hard and a really weird thing to do, and it's a very I think most trans women like give up on it because it just feels so unnatural and awkward. I knew the trans people would be watching me because I watched trans contestants on Jeopardy and like really like focused in on them, and so I wanted to I didn't want to give them like too high of a sort

of standard to reach, if you will. I didn't want to give them this ideal that might feel less attainable to them. Wow. I think it also if we go back to the elite athlete thing, you had a job to do, like you need every bit of your mental energy and your physical energy to compete on this program, and the idea of having to do an extra little bit of mental math or even like reading a slightly different way you went for it. You gave yourself the

best chance to compete. Absolutely, no. I mean it is like most of what I was doing in that preparation was just thinking about you know, again, I've been telling everybody, I went on that show to win money, you know, that was that was what I was going there to do. But like, I'm so glad that I went with the approaches I went with and and all that sort of thing. They had so many more benefits than just giving me a better chance to win. Like, I really learned a

lot about myself through this process. Yeah, did you hear from trans people about that particular issue about your voice? I did. It was funny. I was really surprised by a lot of different stuff that I talked about, like somebody connected with you know, I talked about having an older sister that died in infancy before I was born, and I heard from several people about that. You know, I've talked about having a d h d on on

Twitter and people connecting about that. So, you know, all the stuff I've talked, like, you know, everything I've experienced, somebody else has experienced, and you know, finding all those connections has been you know, I think that's been another amazing thing coming out of this is to feel so much less alone in these various things, for sure, And

I think for people to see you. I mean, in each episode of Jeopardy, Ken Jennings asks the contestants questions, and you're on for forty episodes, so you answer forty different questions about different parts of yourself. And I think that that was one of the most amazing things to watch unfold. It's just like to be able to it, to know all these different facets of you over time. And I thought it was interesting that you chose to talk about being trans like a handful of episodes in.

Was that a deliberate choice on on your part or on the show's part? It was, you know, it wasn't like nobody on Jeopardy reference the fact that I was trans at all or mentioned it until I brought it up, until I wanted to wear that pin, you know, and it was clear that, you know, it was empirely up to me that they would never have mentioned it if I didn't. Yeah, and wait, sorry, just for people who are who are listening and maybe not familiar with the

pin you wore, would you describe it? Yeah, it was just the trans flag, you know, so a standard flag pin but with those colors, and actually Kate Freeman, who was the first trans woman to win a game of Jeopardy, had worn one, and I didn't want to, like I'd consider just like wearing that, but then I just didn't want to because you know, I've talked about you know, I'm trans, but that can be a thing that kind of like overshadows everything else. That can become like the

thing that you are. And it's like, you know, when I think about myself, that's not the first thing that I think about, you know, I think about that I'm sport, that I live in Oakland, that i'm you know, like all these other things, and then you know, that's definitely in there. Um, So I didn't want to like make it about being the trans person. But then once I you know, want a couple of games, it was like, well,

I also don't want it to be a secret. I don't want it to be something that I'm like hiding or seem ashamed of or anything else like that, because you know, I am trans and I'm proud of it and I like it. I think it's I feel sorry for his people. I think your lives are more boring than man and all that sort of thing. So I did want to. I I felt like after a few games, I was like, Okay, I don't want to leave this

on acknowledged. Yeah, of course, And I think you did it in the week leading up to Thanksgiving, which I know. I have friends who said that it was very meaningful to them to see that, because it was sort of, I don't know, to them. They took it as a wink and a not of like, you might be going to be with your families, you might be in situations where it might be hard to talk about this, and and I sort of I see you sort of a thing. Yeah, yeah,

absolutely what it was. And I mean it's you know, like because Thanksgiving, of the various holidays, is the most family oriented, and you know, trans people, you know, statistically are less likely to have a good relationship with their family, and so it can it can be hard. So yeah, that was that was definitely part of the thinking. For sure. Can I ask about your relationship to your to your family?

You know, it's good. My mom there was a little bit of like hesitation or something like that, but she was always accepting of me when I when I came out to her, you know, just sort of resistance on like changing pronouns and things like that, but like not a big deal, and that's all been good for for years at this point. And yeah, my my dad had passed away before I came out, and you know, I'm not you know, to be honest, I'm not sure how that would have gone. And so, you know, we'll we'll

never know. But my brother is great and always has been and always will be. So if we come back to the game itself and playing Jeopardy, being in this studio, these you know, five show tapings in a day, did you surprise yourself with how much you knew or with like with answers to questions that you're like, where did that come from? In my brain? I mean, I guess I wouldn't say that. I there was definitely cases whereas like I don't know how I knew that, but that

didn't surprise me. That happens to me, like in my life, Like I'm you know all the time, I'm like where did I learn that? You know, Like, especially as the show was going on. I remember specifically like one time our friend Will being like, how did you know that? And I'm like I read it somewhere once I don't know, like and it's stuck, Like how do I answer that question? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Well does it do you feel that you have a photographic memory or is it something else? It's

not photographic for sure, God knows. I lose my phone all the time and all sorts of things like that. Like I'm bad at remembering people's names and faces. But you know, there's something about the way my brain is set up that like is just well set up I think for like kind of like trivia facts. I don't know why, but those things stick in my brain pretty well.

And I think that part of the reason at least is that sort of like wanting to dig into things that I talked about, Like I'm no good at remembering like years or like these sort of like specific things that are kind of like arbitrary and don't really matter, um, but like things that I can tie into a story and like, you know, this is what was going on in the world at that time, or this word, you know, it has these etymological things that it comes from, these

languages or whatever else. Like if you learn something and then kind of dig into it more, then that thing will stay. Yeah, are there any answers or questions that still haunt you from your time there. Yeah, I mean obviously the last one when I lost it is definitely one I'll always think about. And there was another one that I think was in that same final episode where it was a football question and the answer was Johnny

Unitas they were showing Johnny unitis on the screen. I thought Johnny Unitas, and then I rang in and my mouth said Joe Namath and I was just like what what what? How did that happen? And I know there are a few others. I remember a couple of times watching where you know, I'm watching the episode out and I'm being like ring in, Why am I not ringing in?

I know this, you know. But yeah, on that last episode, can you tell me a bit about the mixed bag of feelings that were probably part of it, because I imagine one of them maybe was relief a little bit.

It sounds grueling, Yeah, yeah, I mean definitely, like the first thing was just like loss and sadness, Like it was really hit me hard in that like first moment, you know, and then my my second thought of that after that was like, you know, keep it together, like don't you know, I really, like Madam Moodio talked about when he lost, he really wanted to make sure that the person who won was getting the focus on them, and you know that it wasn't about his loss and

it was about their win because it's such a big thing for them, and so I wanted to, like, you know, be doing the same. But then shortly after I had the thought, I don't have to come up with any more anecdotes to tell Ken, which was you know, a good feeling, and I don't have to keep leaving you know, Genevieve and Meep every week and like I can get back to my normal life and all those sorts of things. I'm I can't imagine how Ken Jennings did what he did.

I was still so far away from his streak and it just like you know, I always respected it, and now it just blows my mind. Yes, seventy plus episodes something like that, Yeah, yeah, exact number. Did you have a good cry? Though? Did you have did you let

yourself cry? At some point? So I I was walked back to where the other contestants were hanging out in a in a parking garage, and in a parking garage, yeah, for for social distancing, that that was the place they could find, and so one thing was on the way over. You know, I was clearly struggling a bit, and the crew member who was walking me said, it's it's like the end of a show, like a play. You know, We've all been working together, collaborating to put this thing out,

and it's just suddenly like gone. And I really appreciated that. I realized that was the exact feeling I was having, and that also comforted me in a bit, because, like, you know, that's not when you think about when you go remember a play, you remember the run of it. You don't remember that sadness at the end. But so I did like then, and I sort of like you know, said hi, you know, contestants, and did a little small talk like that, and I was like, hey, I gotta

go to the bathroom. And then I went in the bathroom and I cried for a couple of minutes and I let that go, you know, and then pulled myself up together and came back out. But yes, I did. I knew I needed to, Oh for sure. I can't imagine the release of that. I also read somewhere that you gave thank you notes to the crew. Is that true? It is? I'm yeah, no, I just I mean, first of all, they're all great people, Like you know, I wasn't expecting them not to be fine people, but I

was really impressed by basically everyone there. And then it was, you know, it was such an intense experience and they were the only ones that were there with me through it, and like, there were definitely several occasions like that last one where they just said just the right thing at just the right time. That was really what I needed to hear. And I just felt like I had to like let them know how how much I appreciated them.

That's Amy Schneider. If you're enjoying this conversation, and be sure to subscribe to Here's the Thing on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When we come back, Amy Schneider shares her perspective on the rash of anti trans legislation on the rise across the country. I'm Dalia Schlanger and this is Here's the Thing. Jeopardy champion Amy Schneider's life has changed dramatically since her epic run on the show. Her social media following has exploded.

She was honored with a special recognition at this year's GLAD Media Awards. She's even had a day named after her in Oakland, California. I wanted to know about the first moment when Schneider realized that she had become a public figure. I think maybe the first one. I was surprised by how fast like things took off, and like, you know, how many Twitter followers? Why is getting how many like interview request? I was getting that sort of thing.

But I had known something like that was going to happen, even if I didn't know the degree. But I think, you know, there are two things that really kind of made me realize, like, this isn't just a thing that's happening. This is a new phase of my life. I think the first one was I got robbed at the beginning of the year. UM. Didn't have anything to do with Jeopardy.

It's just you know, I was I had bad luck on that and you know whatever, UM and I mentioned it on Twitter and then it was a news story and like people in my life found out about it because they had seen it in like their news feed and things like that, And that was really a moment of being like, okay, like I have a public life now and a and a personal life, and it's it's up to me to monitor where the boundaries between those are. And that's just going to be the case for who

knows how long. So that was one moment, and then the other one was like, once my episode stopped airing, like I played, I put off a lot of things on the assumption that once my episode stopped airing, things would calm down and to have more free time. And then a week or two in I was like, Wow, that not happen at all, and this is not going to stop, and yeah, I had to like just recalibrate my whole plans for you know, the next few months. Yeah, well I think kind of the rest of your life.

Like you quit your job, Yeah, yeah, I did. Was that our decision to make? No? Um, you know, I'd been struggling and with dissatisfaction of my career for a while. I mean, I think, like a lot of people in COVID, it was just like is this really what I want

to be doing with my life? And you know, just not feeling the fulfillment that I used to have, so you know, like this coming along, it was like I was thinking about doing it anyway, and having you know, a million dollars to cushion the financial blow like made it a lot easier. I had thought that I was going to hang in there for a few more months, like get some stock options to fast and some other stuff like that, you know, see if things were really

going to be sustainable. But then it quickly became clear that they were, and like it was just like, this is foolish. I'm actually not doing any work. Like I had this realization I needed to write this like RFC about spec automation you know, whatever that means. And I was like, I'm not going to do that. I just can't imagine myself doing that anymore. That's that's so uninteresting to me. And so yeah, I said, of meeting with my manager, and that was it. What's the dream now?

You know a lot of people have been like suggesting a lot of things to me, but I think what I've kind of settled on is that I think my dream would be if somebody was to be describing Amy Schneider in a few years, that they would say she's a writer, and then maybe adding other things after that, maybe like you know, podcasting or like hosting a TV show or things like that. But I think that, like, you know, I've written some essays that have been online.

I've put together a book proposal, and I'm going to be trying to write a book. And I've really found that to be the most satisfying to do or even think about, of all the things that have come along. It's amazing. I want to ask you about your life on online a little bit. I know your in person life has changed so much, but your life online as well. And I understand that Jeopardy like makes a recommendation to people to shut down their personal social media accounts before

they're on the show. Can you tell me a little bit about that aspect of things and what it's been like for you. Yeah, I mean it's been interesting. I will say that before the episode started airing, Jeopardy put me in contact with Glad, who gave me, you know, a fair amount of like advice and like preparation and training for being a queer person in the public eye, which was super helpful. You know, it's been tough. Like I I used to be on Twitter a fair amount.

I used to post a fair amount to my you know, three followers or whatever. And then I'd already kind of like stopped that during the pandemic because I just didn't feel like I had anything to say about, you know, COVID. It was always just so like off the cuff too, Like I would think of like a funny thing and like you know, spend twenty minutes like crafting it and like debating over commas and stuff, and then then throw

it out there. But now, you know, I can't just like you know, take an edible and think of something funny and post it because like you know, it's going to be in the news, and I had need to be you know, more thoughtful about it, and so trying to find that balance of where's the like still like you know, casual and me and natural, while also being you know, thoughtful enough to not you know, do anything foolish,

oh for sure. And also I mean, like you said that Jeopardy put you in touch with Glad to talk about being a queer person in the public eye. Do you feel like like having to deal with that side of things has politicized you more in your transness maybe then you felt as a private person. I actually I think that I've been very politicized as a trans person.

That's something that I've been you know, intentionally de emphasizing in my social media and in my public presence because I don't you know, I don't want my Twitter feed to be a place where people are arguing all the time, and that's not, you know, my goal. But yeah, it's been interesting. It's certainly like hardened me and things that I already felt. And I guess it's made me think through more like my politics and my beliefs and things

like that. It's really you know, because if I am going to address it, like I say, I need to do it now in a thoughtful way, and I need to really think about what will actually you know, persuade people and not just what will make me feel good. And so I've been That's something I've been doing a lot of thinking about, and it's something I do want to be, you know, I don't want to be an activist, you know, per se or things like that, but I do want to start like using that platform a bit

more to advance the humanity of people like me. Do you have any advice for people listening about finding their own authenticity or about finding harmony within parts of themselves so that they can do their own form of what you've done. Yeah, I mean it's tough. It took me thirty some years, you know, it's it's it's certainly a

difficult thing to do. But I think what I'd say that I've what I've learned from transitioning is that as you think about there's some part of yourself that you haven't been expressing, some part of yourself that you've been kind of ashamed of or just you know, wanting to conceal, not wanting to highlight. You are exaggerating your fears, and you're underestimating the benefits. Like, I'm confident of that it is not going to be as bad as you think.

The negative things won't be as bad as you think they are, and the positives there's going to be positives to it that you were not even thinking of or expecting. Like I I really think that's true. That's so beautifully sad. Do you ever think about what your life might have been like if you hadn't found the courage to make

that transition, to take that leap. Yeah, I mean, you know, I lived it for a long time, and it was miserable in a way that I didn't know because that had always been with me, and so you know, you talk about courage and and there's a truth to that. But once I really like started to experience seeing myself as a woman, letting you know a few people close to me in my life see me that way, you know, acting that way with other people, it felt like there

was no choice. It didn't feel like something that I was bravely deciding to do. It felt like something that was like happening to me, Like coming out was happening to me because I could not stay in the closet any longer. So yeah, that was my experience with it. So this spring, you went to the White House for Transgender Day of Visibility. Unbelievable. How did it feel to be there? Well, it's definitely one of the many, you know, mind blowing experiences I've had this year. A sort of

surreal feeling, you know, just there. It is just like in the movies, you know, you're here at the White House.

And it was also just really drove home for me how much things have changed in this country for trans people that you know, I would be invited by the White House and they would think it was good politics to do, so, you know, that was really neat So On the one hand, I mean, that's such a powerful thing to have a transferson be invited to the White House to mark this day and be so visible on

Transgender Day of Visibility. And yet this year we've also heard so much noise in the media, so much anti trans legislation being brought forward, I think, more than any other year in history in two And I want to know what you think, Like, what's your perspective on where we're at right now? Those are two very a posing states. I think, yeah, I mean I think that fundamentally, I'm I'm really actually quite optimistic. And I don't want to undersell the sort of danger that trans people, in trans

children in particular, are in right now. You know, the being denied gender affirming care is is will will some of them will die from that. It is life saving medical care for many people. And I know that that may be hard to understand if you, you know, are not trans yourself, but I can promise you that it's true. But at the same time, I was talking with their friend the other day and they were saying how awful they feel for the kids that are going to be,

you know, forced to stop their transition. And I was like, well, remember, it wasn't that long ago. There was no need to pass a law for that, because no kid would have been given that medical care in the first place. So when you think about it that way, it's really remarkable how far we've come, you know, not just over the course of my lifetime, but just in the last five

ten years. And so this movement right now is a backlash against the progress that we've made, and it's a backlash that I think, quite frankly, has come too late. Too many people have already, you know, met trans people, come to understand trans people and understand that we have a right to live our lives in peace, and you know, those people aren't going to change their minds. So it's definitely scary right now, and people are going to get hurt.

But I think that, you know, assuming that we continue to have a functioning democracy, you know, trans people are going to be okay in this country. That's a really valuable perspective to hear. I'm curious about how it affects you day to day to have so much discourse about trans rights in in the media. Are you able to compartmentalize or is it exhausting and disturbing a lot of the time, you know, I I mean I am able

to compartmentalize. It's not like there wasn't always terrible news around if you were you know, kind of looking forward or just you know, on trans twitter as I was, you know, so kind of the flood of scary things has has been out there, you know, since I've come out, So yeah, you know, it's just something you just sort of learned that, like, yeah, there's always a bad thing out there, but there's good stuff out there too, and it's not scary, so it doesn't you know, spread as

much and it doesn't make headlines. But just all these little things like me being on Jeopardy, like trans people, you know, advancing in the military were always like moving forward and breaking new ground. Um, and we should be just as aware of that as we are about the scary things. Mm hmm. Those scary things are getting so

much attention. These bills are being talked about so much, and I'm wondering if you think that they're truly reflective of the way that people feel or transphobia on a day to day, person to person level, or if this is a lot of political theater because people are so

polarized around trans rights. I mean, I think, you know, certainly political theater to a fair extent, but I think that you know, what I've learned being out in public and hearing so many stories of especially older people, seeing me on TV and kind of having that sort of the light dawns on them about trans people, and I just that so many people, you know, anybody who's like my age or older, grew up with the you know, most horrific demonizing stereotypes of trans people, you know from

like Silence of the Lambs on and you know, if you've never had a reason to question that, you just sort of grew up believing what you believed. And so I think it's for so many people, it's not about I hate so much. It's just about discomfort and having to question something you thought you knew. But I find that that's pretty brittle, and once it breaks, people can pretty quickly understand that, yeah, those were just wrong what they grew up with, and trans people are fine. Amy.

I hate asking somebody who has a personal stake in an issue like this what other people can do to help, but I am curious to know from your perspective, are there things that folks can do to combat this. Yeah, I mean, I think you know, just the most important thing is too in your daily life, don't let it

go unanswered. If you hear people saying hateful things and and be visible as somebody that is an ally of trans people and that that believes in their rights, it's not necessarily going to change the minds of the people

that you're most frustrated with. But again, it's that thing where people grew up with the idea that everybody shared hateful beliefs about trans people, and so showing the people around you that people they know, people that are in their community, their workplace, their church, whatever it may be, don't share those hateful beliefs. Maybe that you know it'll make a few of them start to wonder and start

the question and start to slowly change the minds. Yeah, I know when you accepted your glad a word, the sense that I got from what you said was that your work in advocacy was the thing that you're most proud of from your Jeopardy rent or not advocacy, but being a visible trans person and the way that that can change people's views. Yeah, you know, when I take my episodes and I knew it was going to be kind of a big deal and that my my trans

nous was going to be a part of that. What I thought was going to happen was just at you know, it would become a talking point and people would just dig into their own trench positions and it wouldn't really have much of an effect. It would just be one more ground that people were fighting on, and that turned

out not to be true. So that has been such a good feeling just to like, I've heard from so many trans people about the immediate difference that it made in their life, the specific ways that it was helpful to them, and you know, have such sympathy and connection for all the all the trans people in this country, and I want nothing but the best and happiness for all of them. And the fact that I was able to actually advance that cause was and remains just an

incredible feeling. Yeah, and for young people too. I don't want to harp too much on this, but I just want to bring up one more point that I found really fascinating in the last six months or so, Like in the spring, the governor of Utah, Governor Cox, vetoed a bill that was trying to ban trans students from participating in sports that are consistent with their gender identity, and his his video is overridden, but when he was expressing his views, he talked about higher suicide rates among

trans youth. But he also made a point that there were only four trans high school students that this bill was going to affect, right, and he said, rarely has so much fear and anger been directed at so few. I don't I don't even know what to make of that. And I'm wondering what you what you make of that. It's so impactful for those four people, it's everything, it's it's their lives. Yeah, Yeah, indeed, I mean I think that, you know, the thing about sports, I think is is

the most political theater of all of them. And it's because it's the most sort of appealing I guess, I would say argument and and in fact, I think that, you know, it's one of the few areas around trans people's place in society that I think there's some room for honest disagreement about. You know, I don't think that builds like those in Utah fall into the realm of

honest disagreement or things like that. I think that again, these are kids they're playing sports to play sports and run around with their friends and compete and all this sort of thing. But you know, nobody should be taking it that seriously in general, and you know, in particular, they shouldn't be taking it so seriously that they're bringing the weight of the state down on these four kids. When you say honest disagreement, can you explain what you

mean by that. I think I mean, like, at the very top levels of say track and field, is there an argument to be made about what is fair and what is not um you know, And I also think that it's also one of those things where it becomes incoherent because you know, some people are born with certain qualities that give them an advantage, and everybody that's at the top of their field in you know, swimming or track and field was born with a huge genetic advantage.

And so what counts is fair and unfair is is a really hard line to draw. But I do think that that's something that people can make an argument about without actually feeling they're being unfair to trans people. But that's a very like narrow slice of the argument, and it's a very nuanced point and very different, as you say, than kids in high school who are exploring their athletic abilities and trying to be who they are in the world. Yeah, exactly. Yeah,

it's a great point. Okay, let's talk about what's next for you. Everyone is very excited about the Tournament of Champions which you're competing in. I want to know how you prepared and whether it was different than the way that you prepared for the regular season of Jeopardy. Yeah. I mean I think it was different. To be honest, I didn't prepare as much. And the simple reason is that going into my original taping, my life was extremely boring.

Um and my life has gotten much more interesting in the past year, and I just had a lot of things going on. I wanted to go to the Toronto Film Festival and other stuff like that, so I kept thinking, boy, I really need to get started studying. And then it was like a week before taping and I was like, oh, wow, I need to get on this. So it was kind

of a bit of a concentrated last week there. But at the same time, I I've always felt like and I felt like this going to last time that fundamentally, you know what, you know, like the last minute cramming is probably not going to swing, you know, any particular games,

so don't get too stressed about it. The main thing was that it was a different mental challenge this time around, partly because like, in a sense it was much lower stakes because I've already been successful Jeopardy, Like, whatever happens

here is not going to change that. But on the other hand, it was also you know, first of all, everybody telling me all year though you're gonna win, you're gonna crush it, all this sort of thing, and like, I don't know, these people are really good, and it's going to be completely different playing against other experienced players as opposed to you know, always two new people that

are there for the first time. So really a lot of it was about trying to get back into the mindset I was last year, trying to remember how that felt, to really get focused on how what was going to come into my mind, what was going to be distracting, and how to how to avoid that. Who are you most nervous to face. I mean, you've got Matt Emmodio and Matteo Roach, both also super champions who won you know,

long streaks of consecutive games. Yeah, I mean, I think definitely Matt I think that, you know, if you look at the Jeopardy stat heads on Reddit or wherever, I think there's there's an argument to be made that that he would be considered the slight favorite over me. I also think that Andrew, he who was the person that I've beat in my first game, but quite honest, was lucky to do. So, you know, he really should have

gotten that final Jeopardy. He'll he'll say so, and so I know that he can beat me, So he would make me nervous as well. Are you gonna have some watching parties for this tournament of champions? You need to celebrate with some friends. Yeah. Absolutely. We're just just yesterday putting together a trill aboard of who we want to invite. Nice, Okay, well we will all be rooting for you. I know I'll be rooting for you. And it's been such a pleasure to talk to you, Amy. Thank you, Oh yeah,

thank you. Likewise my thanks to Amy Schneider. This episode was produced by Kathleen Russo, Zach McNeice, and Maureen Hobit. Our engineers for this episode are Frank Imperial and Brent Bodrick. Our social media manager is Danielle Gingrich. I'm Talia Schlanger. Alec Baldwin will be back next week. Here's the thing is brought to you by iHeart Radio