Eddie Marsan and David Arquette Transcend Typecasting

aptly titled documentary You Can't Kill David Arquette. But first, I'm talking with actor Eddie Marsan during the pandemic I binged the Showtime series Ray Donovan. Marsan plays Ray's brother Terry, a former boxer with Parkinson's disease. Within a terrific cast that stars Liev Schreiber and John Voyd, Eddie Marson stands out beautifully. These days, Marsam is an in demand actor who has worked with the likes of Scorsese, Gonzalez Inobtu and Mike Lee. But growing up in working class London,

becoming an actor was a long shot. Even now, despite a long successful career. He struggles with typecasting in the UK. When I spend time in America, I think it's race and class, and I think it's the same in the UK, probably more race in the US. Idriss is a friend of mine and he had to come over to the US and do the Wire to reinvent himself. And I needed to come over to do Ray Donovan to kind of get diversity in my career. Even now in the UK,

I still struggle to get diversity. They still defined me by class. I had a really interesting conversation with Wendell Pierce, is a really good friend of mine. He was asking me what I was doing over and doing Ray Donovan, and I said, well, when do I I never wanted to be defined as a work class actor, and he said, that's very interesting. Eddie said, because as a black African American actor, I couldn't help but be defined because of

the color of my skin. He said, And what my advice to you, Eddie is, don't seek not to be defined as a working class actor. Seek to change their definition of what it means to be a working class actor.

And that suddenly opened my mind because I was always trying to escape it and now I kind of think we're now embrace it, you know, And Terry was a great embrace of that because Terry when you were quite often, because writers write working class actors, they make because working class blue color people speak a colloquial language, they make them sound dumb. And what was great about Ray Donovan They were inarticulate characters, but they were very articulate in

a in a weird way. Terry was a great character because really he was the mother of the family. He basically represents an Irish Catholic wife who can never divorce John Boyd even though he's abut so as an access Yeah, yeah, that's what it is. Yeah, it is a class system in the UK and and but the US has much more much still still, how do they find you to do the Raynavent? Sure? What were you doing that you

thought spark their interest in here? I think Leev put the call out to see if I could audition, and I auditioned for that. And I love boxing anyway. I used to dance when I was younger, so I physically quite capable. You're dancing, you like boxing, and you were born where bethnal Green. You're the James Cagney of bethnal Green were learning Yeah, yeah, I never thought that. Boxing and the beginning of two thousand four I did two movies.

I did Vera Drake for Mike Lee and I did twenty one Grahams for Alejandro Gonzalez and The Routu, and both of those movies got Oscar attention. I didn't get Oscar attention. My parts weren't big enough, but I played that kind of part where in Vera Drake I played a working class London ex soldier, and I played a born again Christian preacher for Bernicia do Toro in twenty one Grahams. And on both sides of the Atlantic suddenly

people thought this guy is a good character actor. There was an American actor who said to me, Eddie, you're a doughnut actor. He said, in America, he said, quite often studios picked young stars who can't act yet. And he said, if you imagine a donut, the center as vacuous, there's nothing there, but you got surrounded with something that's substantial. He said, you've got a lot of money, you're gonna be a donut actor. Our version of that was you'd

play the hackman role. We called it. Yeah, you were hired to do the Gene Hackman role, which was they had the young star who sold all the tickets and brought in all the young audience, and then they had to have someone play the Admiral of the Shippers, but

who could really act. Yeah. Yeah, So that's in a sense, that's what I did, and that's what I've been doing for the last twenty years, popping up and being there and having great parts and just being really I love being an act her and I loved at what was media like entertainment like movies and TV. For you growing up in bethnal Green, Hoskins was a big When Hoskins came on the scene, he sounded like my father and that was the first time I thought, that's my old man.

He literally sounded like him, and that was a big thing for me. There was a driver, my dad was a truck driver, Yeah, and he looked a bit like Hoskins as well, very similar kind of man. But I remember when I was younger watching on the waterfront and

being captivated by Rod Steiger. I always kind of knew loved character actors, always did love John Robert de Vao, love love Steiger, and and then I was fascinated by character actors who became diverse, like John Hurt in A Naked Civil Servant where he played Quent and Crisp, this gay man in the fourties. And even as a child, I was absolutely fascinated by actors, but I had no means of which to pursue it. There was no drama school for me until when well, I served an apprenticeship

as a printer, and and how will read? Then I was sixteen to twenty out of school. Yeah, yeah, I left school at fifteen, no qualifications. And then I was in the club. I was dancing in the club and somebody asked me to be an extra in a movie. And I went on this movie set and I saw an actor doing a scene and I thought I can do that, and I had no idea how to do it. And then and then it went from there, really And what was the first job I got paid for? Oh?

I was in a pantomime in a in a place called Chipping Norton, and I was a clown throwing suits of kids and a little fucker's throw him back and the stage show. Yeah, yeah, the first was the first movie or TV part you got? I did a movie called Gangs to Number One with Paul Bettany. He was Gangs to Number one and I was the coward. And I always Paul always said to me, and if you can't be Gangs to number one, don't be Gangs to

number two. Be the cow Yeah. Yeah. When you talk about the working class, you know, when I was first working in this business, in the back of my mind, the things that were memorable were, you know Robert Newton, because I love Robert Newton. Yeah, oh god, I know every every line, every facial gesture from Oliver Twist. And so speaking of Robert Newton and Dickens that you have a magwitch in your life, that the Pip that is Eddie Marsen. You had a benefactor? I did, I did.

I had an Eastern bookmaker called Mr Bennett. Yeah, who was Mr Bennett? Can you say? He used to run a men's worth store, but he used to run a book But he was a bookmaker at the dog track. And I used to work for him. What did you do for him? I used to I still so close to him. I used to sell smarter and stuff I wasn't interested in the betting side. Used to run a clothing store. But he was a big bookmaker and he said to me, what do you really want to do?

And I said, I want to be an actor. And he said, well, if you get to get to drama school, I'll pay, and he did. And the funny thing is, I'm a terrible malaprop. I get words wrong all the time. So when my first couple of weeks of drama school, a really strong Cockney accent and I walked in and he was there with his wife and I said, he said,

how's it going. I said, well, they said I've got so with my voice, and they want me to see a chiropodist because I never and he said his wife said that you mean speech therapist and Mr Bennett said no, because he keeps putting his foot in it. But this guy, so this wasn't about the guy want you to clean his guns, or drop this bag of money off at the train station, put it in the locker for me. None of that. Now, he was a really sweet He

was a sweet man because he was a bookmaker. If you went into a pub with him, all the local villains would know him, and he won't have to buy a drink because they probably a while within money at one point or another. I just love any story about mentorship and people who have benefactors, someone who helps you, you know what I mean. I mean if someone because this business is so tough now, so you tell me this guy. I love that Mr Bennett. Do we all wish we had a Mr Bennett? Would have? Is he is?

He passed away. He's gone, he passed away. I was working with Ethan Hawk on a movie and it was it was a TV think of Moby Dick. And I had a week off and I went to see him, and my wife told me that he's not gonna lie. You won't be able to get back to see him. So I had to go and see him one morning and I told him how much I loved him. You did get to see him before he passed. I held his hand and I said I said to him, I owe you everything. I said, I owe you my career,

my happiness, my childhood, the mortgage, the debt, the stress. Everything. He was Yeah, but Ethan was very good. Ethan took me at the other end of the ship and just sat with me while I cried, and gave me a pride. Make sure everyone just left me alone. He's very sweet. Actor Eddie Marsan. Another actor who outgrew typecasting is John Deturo. He says, despite his success, there was a moment not

long ago when he considered a career change. I had a sort of crisis, maybe eight, nine, ten years ago and told my doctor, I said, you know, I'm done with this business. I've got to do something really important, like what you do. I said, I want to go to medical school. I was like fifty years old. And he was like, John, you're crazy. He was like, you know,

you know how long medical schools? You know? And he said what you do is there's a value to what you do, when I was like, no, there's not, you know, And he talked me out of it. Here more of my conversation with John Tuturo at Here's the Thing dot Org. After the Break, Eddie Marsan talks about playing Terry in the Showtime series Ray Donovan. I'm Alec Baldwin and you were listening to Here's the Thing. The Showtime series Ray

Donovan is heavy. It's about a troubled family living with the legacy of sexual abuse, and Eddie Marsan worked hard to realistically portray the progression of his characters Parkinson's disease. It got very dark at times. There was a darkness in the piece because the thing about Ray Donovan is what people didn't realize is it's Trojan Horse television. You kind of think it's going to be about Hollywood and and actually it's about three Irish brothers who were sexually

abused and can't articulated. So quite often as an actor, you would hold all this darkness about the history of being abused by priests in Boston and you couldn't express it. So so that was tough. And for me, We've created this story that Terry knew that his brothers were being abused by the priests, but the priest was given his mother solace and so if he told his mother, she would die. So we had to allow the priests to abuse his brothers. And he was caught between a rock

and a half place. And that was what the shaik was. The shaiksa belize somebody caught between a rock and a half place. Morally mainlyev used to get drained by it because it was unsaid. It had to be so authentic because it was unsaid, and so we had to hold it within us. You started shooting the show where in California. In California we started in two thousand and twelve. Did you live in California? I used to go and live

in Culver City. Yeah. Yeah. From season six and seven onwards, we went over to New York without the first time You've lived any length of time in the US. No, I've been working in the US. I mean what I did was I made a very conscious choice that it was a real big strain on my marriage and my family life doing this show. But I knew we had to do it. So I decided that I could work and have family, but I couldn't work have family and have a social life. So I couldn't go go out

in the evening. I would literally work. As soon as I wrapped, I'd fly home every weekend. I flew home. Now everyone in Los Angeles to London, Yeah, every weekend. You know. Yeah, yeah, And I've made that choice, and it was the best thing I've did. And your wife was grateful, Oh yeah, and God come home. And we'd have some days because of the schedule, you'd have three or four days at home, and some days you'd have one day at home. But it was just to be

there for the kids just to be a presence. You just broke my heart. You have to make that choice. And actually it wasn't bad for me. I'm not a big social animal anyway, and I love the work and I have so much fun at work on set. That was your social life, that was my social life. What was it like for you in the I know that in film there's one director you start and finish with, and and TV there's many directors. What did directors? Will use Ray Donov as an example, and we'll also talk

about britt directors. What did the American directors on Ray Donovan have to offer you? Were they helpful? Yeah? Very much so. We had the show runner, Dave Hollander talk me about the rhythm of multi season, multi episodic dramas. He he taught me how to to set up something in one season you'll pay off two seasons later, so you don't have to pay off everything straight away. You've got loads of time. And the other thing I learned was that you don't have to play characters who are sympathetic.

You just have to play characters that are empathetic because time restrictions meant that within a two hour drama, a character had to be sympathetic over multiple seasons, multiple years a character and only needed to be empathetic. You could do the worst thing a character could do as long as he audaers thought. If I was in that situation, I would do the same thing. Then you've done your job. So I began to understand the rhythm of it and to trust it and don't force it. Also, I've never

been a big showy actor. Anyway, when I work with Mike Lee, I learned so much from Mike Lee because as an actor, you always there's always a voice in your head which either wants to be clever or be true, And with Mike Lee, the answer will always be true. From that point, artist that would you know, don't show off? Mike would always say, you've got to dig a hole and sit in it. Well, it's interesting you look at

his filmography. He hasn't made that many films. In seventy one his first movie Bleak Moments, High Hopes Come, and he's made six films since two thousand two. Yeah, and what did you I mean you made three films with him? How would you describe working with him? Well, his work is all about creating the character. There's no script you create the character and the story develops out of the character.

And what I found with Ray Donovan because you had a writer's room and the writers would come on set and they would be informed by my performances, Terry and me, so they would begin to write Terry based on our own discussion. So all the characters on Ray Donovan were analistic creation of all the writers and the actors and the crew together because um, there was so much that you were given to them and they were given to you, And it was very much like likely is he the

only director you've worked with more than once? No. I worked with David Leach and who's does a lot of superhero movies, and he always pulls me in to play this villainous part, and quite often he shoots me from behind because when the plot doesn't make sense, I can go and do a d R and say some stuff that no one sees. My lips move. You've done a lot of players. I used to. I haven't done place for twenty years. We haven't. Do you ever miss it? I do? But I never used to get offered good plays.

It was interesting what you're saying about class. When I went over to do Ray Donovan. We were doing a second season and it was already quite successful, and I was doing nice films on American TV, and I was playing more Diversity in America. And then my agent called me. He said, the BBC are doing Richard the Third, and I played Richard the Third. I toward Europe Richard the Third years ago, and she said they're going to offer your part. I don't know what, and I felt, great, okay,

this is fantastic. And they cooled and it was to play a thief with two lines, and and and there. I am going to work with leev and John Voights and and dash My Hawk and and working with all these great writers. But in the UK I was a thief with two lines. But you should be grateful for the privilege of doing Richard the Third exactly. Don't you don't get too big now, don't get too hearty. No. I found that Stafford Clark and other Brits I've worked with.

It was really, I mean, just the Steaks and the uh Tony Walton. We did equest together and oh my god, just the rigor. I said to somebody. They said, what's the task for you? Now? I said, to remember that every job is a chance for me to still to learn. Yeah, someone said to me, what's change in your acting? I was that guy that was standing there on the set with that director, sobbing from the opening line, Oh God, how can you do this to us, lady, this clinic.

You know, we need the money in Jesus Christ. And I'm like fucking going up coming to pieces. It's totally wrong. And someone said, I said, how's that changed? I said, well, that accessing that reservoir of emotion, which is still relatively easy. I guess I think you either have a knack for that or you don't. I said, everything is technical to me, it's so technical line pause, pause, like music, be b I often think of myself as a session musician, And

I was going to ask you that. Explain why, Because you're creating notes, and you're working in collaboration with other other actors, So sometimes you have to play the baseline. They're the lead guitar and you have to play the baseline for them, and and and and and it gives you a feeling of the collaboration element of the art and fitting in and fitting in and working like music. I see people, I'm here to play a part by the part that fits into everything that what everybody is doing.

When you went home, did people recognize you? Do people watch Ray Darnovan in the UK? They do? It is not as big in the UK. Why do you think, just not on a big format. I mean, the people who watch it are obsessed with it. But in the in the U S it's it's massive in the US.

You know, the feelings that people get from Ray Donovan, I've never had it before because I've always been an actor who disappears into thinks and you know, I've always been the outer to focus, best friend, and suddenly for people to love Terry, they get very disappointed when they find out I'm not as charismatic as Terry, as decent as Terry. No, Terry is decent and brave. Well. Of course, there was a lot written about the fact that they

ended season seven very unceremoniously. No season eight. Was everybody very taken aback by that, Yeah, very surprised. I don't know what the decision was. I don't know why it was. I think there was an outline for season eight. They were going to finish the show. They had a storyline, and I think there's always talk of coming back and finishing it in something like a four hour or like a two part Yeah, there's something like that. They got that they're not done. Yeah, I won't surprise me if

it happened. I thought, I don't want to say this is a spoiler. Or so you folcus out there listening, if you are going to watch Ray Donovan, you can turn your volume down now while I say that. One of the most audacious sequences in the TV show I've ever seen was when everybody thought Mick was dead and he's not. Yeah, yeah, He's like, oh God, I blew out the back of the bus and Jesus and he lives. And you knew he was gonna live. You knew he

was gonna come back. But when he does come back, you're like, oh fuck, this guy's the cock wroks that won't die. One of the joys of Ray Donovan was to watch John act. When you get him talking about New York in the sixties and seventies and being a young actor and he gave al Pacino a thousand dollars to do a play, to put on a play, and he talks about Bobby de Voo and all these all these actors that he knew, and for an actor, that's just it's just manna from heaven to to listen to

those stories. You're not mute about your politics, No, no, no, Why as that? Well? When I grew up, my parents had a very very difficult marriage. I come from an area full of immigrants, lots of black Caribbean families, and I kind of took refuge in a Caribbean family's house. They kind of adopted me in a sense. So I always felt safer amongst immigrants than I did amongst the

blue color white working class. And and that those people that showed intolerance or bigotry, which is an element of the white working class, I was always more threatened by them than I was, and I felt safe with them. And I was always more encouraged and inspired and and nurtured by immigrants. So whenever I hear racism of any kind or bigotry, it touches a trauma within me. And so I have to come out and say I don't like populism. I don't like anybody who sees things in

a very binary way. I don't trust it. I think I might might you know, my economics, I think we have to have a certain distribution of wealth because I believe in a meritocracy, and in order for for capitalism to be a meritocracy, someone like me has to pay more taxes for someone like me to achieve their potential. I don't trust populism to me. Was that guy in the corner of the bar who can manage the England soccer team, run the country, but never leaves the bar.

So you're obviously you wanted to stay. You didn't want to leave. You were against brexit. Oh yeah. The reason I wanted to stay within the European Union because I think that it's brought prosperity in peace to Europe in the last fifty years, and that's a great thing. I think it's great for workers rights. I think I also distrust referendums because if a politician lies, you can vote them out with a referendum. They lie and it's done. There is a populist xenophobia that has been prominent in

America with Trump and prominent in Britain with Brexit. Very similar. It's very Any of your kids show any inclination. My twelve year old son just did a movie. Um, yeah, they're doing a movie about Roll Dahl and he plays a young boy in roll those writing room who kind of inspires him to write. And my daughter at sixteen, she's just on a movie. But they spent their lives on film sets. They have a very healthy attitude. You didn't shield them from that. They were there, I mean

because their mum's a makeup artists. I mean, my wife was much more successful than I was when we got married. I always say I married her for a money and so she was really so I would take my kids to go and see mommy and they would go into the makeup room and and on Ray Donovan, they used to come and the crew used to give him a radio mike, and they used to run around and give everybody coffees and things. So they've got a very healthy

attitude towards it. You have a bunch of projects and assuming that you're in a pipeline that there's a maybe a COVID clouded pipeline. Yeah, I've got a film coming out with Sean Penn directed flag Day. Yeah, flag Day. Yeah. What kind of care are you play? I play an insurance guy. Come at the end, I got a big

speech at the end. While it was a big speech, I don't know if it's going to be a big speech by the time the film comes out, but I come out in the end, and what kind of the piece as a drama about a young girl and a dysfunctional relationship with her father in the seventies, and he kind of comes in and out of her life and Sean plays the father, his daughter plays the girl. She's fantastic in it. It's a it's a great movie. What was he like, what did he have to offer you

as a director? Well, first work with him in a movie called The Professor and Madman in Dublin about four years ago, and what I found with Sean. I thought Sean was very similar to Spielberg in a strange way, because what what Spielberg does is Spielberg dances with a camera. You know, he kind of visually complements what you're doing.

And Sewn as an actor who's always aware of of every moment, every note, every bat and when you were being directed by him, you knew you were with somebody who was whether where the camera was an instrument that

was complimenting you, and he was fantastic directing it. So the chasm between the leading man and the character man who is as well defined, And I always wonder to say to somebody like you, who's as gifted as you are, and you're truly a gifted actor, if I said to you, you're gonna make seven eight figure salaries a year and you'll never get to play those juicy roles where you're going to be the number one on the call sheet at this point in your career, would you set aside

or the nutritious juicy roles you've played to become rich and famous, or do you like things exactly as they are now? I'd like to play some leading roles. I always in that My analogy is that a movie is like a ghost train ride, and the central character is a neutral character, so that they the audience sit on the train and go on the ghost train ride, go on the ups and downs, but the central character is quite neutral, quite bland. And me I played the guy

who goes boo. I do about six or seven movies a year, and I'd like to do one or two movies a year and and really get into So I'd like a career like yours are like Sean, where you end up playing great character roles, but they are the leading part. Are you're going to direct films. Yeah, I was going to direct. My mother died a couple of years ago. I was about to direct a film for for BBC Films, but my mother passed away and when she was ill, we had to I had to stop.

And because of that, I'm writing things. I have a fascinating with American politics. What I love about America is it's an idea and it's an idea that people are trying to implement as as best as possible. Yeah. Yeah, but it's like anything, it exposes people's shortcomings. Some people think it supports their bigotry, and other people it inspires generosity, and I think that's fascinating. I want to tell you again that I watched seasons five, six, and seven of

Ray Donovan. It's on showtime anytime for people that are out there, all seven seasons. Eddie Marson, I mean you you really you ripped my heart out. Thank you were ripped my heart out. I mean the it's the sweet and the sour, it's those extremes. It's the dignity and the malevolence, but the whole range is there. Not many people get that, and that's what you did on that show. You got everything out of that part you possibly can. You were great in that fucking show. Great, Thank you

very much, Actor Eddie Marson. David Arquette has seen some turbulent times, a very public marriage and divorce, rehab, a heart attack, and a career that's stalled in part because he won a pro wrestling championship two decades ago. But David Arquette comes from a long line of performers, and he knows how to reinvent himself. My dad was a big improvisational actor, and we did a bunch of that growing up. That was built into sort of our playtime.

But I wasn't really serious into it until high school. Where school Fairfax in Los Angeles? Where were you living one part of town. We lived right down the street from Paramount Studios, right in Hollywood, But back then it was pretty crazy area at the time, punk rock and roller skating and you know, just all this bizarre world. Then I got into break dancing and graffiti and I was kind of like all into that world. And then

they were doing a school play. They couldn't find the lead and they approached me, and then I met my teacher, Bendibaldo, who had a real impact on my life. Helped me focus on just acting and like getting into acting. And where were your sisters at that point in your family?

At the point were they all dabbling in it? Like in my family literally because I'm the oldest, My brothers were sitting around in the den of our house and I was doing a soap opera, you know, and they were sitting there, stoned out of their mind and say, now, if ship Head here can get on TV, why can't we get on TV? You know, there was really the such contempt for me that launched their careers. Who was the first one to jump in the pool of your

famous siblings? Rosanna really broke down the door for this generation. I mean, my great grandfather was cliff ar Ket Charlie Weaver, and then my father and my mother was also an actress. But then this generation, it was Rosanna. She ran out to Hollywood and stayed with the family that we were friends with when she was like fifteen or sixteen. Patricia then got into it, so they were both working actresses

when I was in high school. And this fascinates me, this whole family thing, because you walt to such distinctive personalities. Did you have a similar goal? I don't know, there was eleven years difference between me and Rosanna, So when I was a teenager, she was a woman like starting her career, and I always remember like seeing some of her early work and being really impressed by it, like

the Executioner Song and Big Blue and After Hours. I mean, she was doing such incredible work and I was just in awe of her talent. We all have this improvisational bass because my dad was a working actor like forty five years, so he'd do industrial films and commercials, and I was still on the Walton's and just kind of paying the bills. So there was also a real kind of blue collar element to acting for me. I still kind of hold that even though I love theater, I

fell in love with theater. I've been able to do a couple really beautiful plays and a couple of real stinkers. Well, what's one you enjoyed and where? Describe where were My favorite play was at the Geffen. It was called The Female of the Species and that Benning was the lead in it, and I learned so much just watching her. But Net Benning, who has that rare distinction of someone who became a movie star based on the performance in a play, she did them, the play Coastal Disturbances, the

Tina how Play on Broadway with Tim Daley. I've always found it if I need something to kind of get my mind right, like to get my feelings right of it, what am I doing and why? Because movies and TV has been so daunting for me. I go to a play and all of a sudden, then I I just feel better, like if we were doing a revival. It was a famous piece of material, and it was a process that I was much more familiar with. It was movie making just seem like, man, you gotta be lucky.

You know, you need a lot of luck in this business. Definitely, When did the luck come for you? When did you first feel lucky? I did a film called On His Way Back that was sort of my first indie film, Darling, that went to festivals and people sort of appreciated it, and I think from there, I did a film called Dream with the Fishes. I really loved that experience. Who was the director, Finn Taylor, really amazing writer director. She

was brilliant. It's one of my favorite films that I've done because it's based on a true story and just really had a lot of hard and really beautiful music in it, and I got to work with this actor Brad Hunt, that I've still dear friends with. And then what happens in terms of you make a movie that makes a huge amount of money correct they scream and that movie makes bags of money, and then what happens do you all of a sudden you decide now I need to do different movies. I could select sort of

more films that I wanted to do. I had met Courtney Cox, my ex wife, on Scream that had been become a big focus of my life, just my relationship. And then I did a couple uh studio movies, but they're kind of It was funny. I was watching this documentary on the casting director of of Midnight Cowboy, and I'm all captivated by this beautiful story of this incredible artistic casting director and she cast one of my favorite films. Yeah,

and I'm watching it and I'm like loving it. And then she was like, then the studio made me start casting crap. And it's like the show picture of me c spot run the movie. I had done a kid's movie, you know, So I was like, oh, it was like this gut punch. I know, people are really selective about what they do and the protective of their careers. And I'm getting that more now, but I never really was.

I'd always do like a kids movie if I wanted to do a kid's movie, or or horror film, or I do a fun like I did this movie Eight Legged Freaks, which was like a throwback to the sixties kind of creature features like I love all that stuff. So I never saw it as selling out or you

weren't calculating enough. Now you know you made the mistake of doing what you wanted to do right right, as opposed what they wanted you to do, you know now at the same time, because I don't want to dwell on this too much, but I just find the counterpoint interesting. When you met Courtney on Scream, she was on the TV show already or no, yeah, she she was on Friends. They were in like their first or second year, so it was very early on. And then she when she

comes out the other end of that tunnel. She's one of the most famous women and she's part of one of the most famous TV shows in history. You were married to her for how long thirteen years or twelve years or something, so that run of that show, you were pretty much the run of the show. Yeah, through the run of the show. We have a sixteen year old daughter together now, but yeah, through the run of

the show. You know, when you were with someone in that acting relationship, I became her husband a lot, you know. You know, you become second fiddle to a certain degree, or like there's an effect on your career in a sense, or you even just in any relationship. You just have to start making choices. Like I remember I was up for a role with High Fidelity, but I had already committed to me and Courtney doing this film together called The Shrink Is In, And Stephen Fears called me in

the office. He said, come on, you gotta do this movie. You know, I know you have the film with your wife, but marriage is temporary. Movies are forever. Yeah, right, I had guys call me up. I had guys call me up and they said they were like, we can always get you another wife out, Like, I mean, you know, let's get serious. Did you get that sense from her that the goose that lays the golden egg and you have to really really protect that there were risks that

she couldn't take in her career. Yeah, for sure. I definitely had to watch my self. I was a bit of a wild character anyway. But when we had our daughter, Coco, I remember the paparazzi at this point in Los Angeles had just gone crazy. They were like gangsters with cameras and they would like provoke fights with me, and I'd be like screaming, like I got this protective instinct of my child. It was like, you know, you know about I wouldn't know anything about that, David, I have no

idea what you're talking about. Paparazzi threatening your wife, your child, and you become really really activated over that. I have no idea what you're talking about. I know. It's so it's gets so crazy. It was a weird time because we were she was like the darling and and all that stuff, and you start going to all the parties and you start meeting all the big people and all the stuff. And then we got a divorce and I just kind of like really took it hard. I started drinking,

just heartbroken. That was a tough time just to sort of bounce comes apart. When there's no kids, obviously, it's a it's different when those kids involved. You know. When I got divorced and have my daughter Ireland. It was fucking agony, man, it was fucking agony, you know, just

to be another statistic, you know. Now, let me ask you this, your sister who was born your brother Roberts, right, if I read correctly, Alexis didn't emerge till she was really in her thirties correct well, within the family, she did. She came out in her late teens, nineteen or something, and my mom was really liberal and she had a really hard time with it. That was really a weird time because we're like, Mom, you're like the most open minded. She had a hard time because she knew it was

just gonna be a hard life for Alexis. But then she did the wedding singer and she was boy George and that, so she kind of did certain roles where she showed that side, but she didn't really come out like publicly until she was ready to say, I only want to do you know, either female or transgender parts, And that's where she kind of came out publicly early two thousand's two four that yeah, I was reading about her and said she was born in sixty nine, so

that makes her like thirty five years old. So she was living with that and and and keeping that close until she was thirty five years old. Oh, when she was thirty five, that's when she became a woman. But then at the end of her life then she wanted us to refer to her as our brother again before she died. So it's like this confusic thing where I say my brother and my sister. But towards the end, Alexis was like the female side of her, or her wanting to be a female she realized was connected a

lot to sexuality. So at the end she wanted to be referred more to as our brother. David Arquette follow Here's the Thing on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. While you're there, leave us a review. When we return, David talks about why he wanted to get back in the ring for his new documentary You Can't Kill David Arquette. I'm Alec Baldwin and this is Here's the Thing. David Arquette is

a long time real deal fan of professional wrestling. In the year two thousand, he won the w c W World Heavyweight Championship, a title he held for twelve days. An achievement that was mocked by wrestling fans and Hollywood alike. His career stalled, he let himself go, and then he decided to get back in the ring. It's all captured in a documentary released last year whose idea was the movie you Can't Kill David Arquette. You can't. And by the time I was done watching the movie, I mean,

I thought, that's a cute title. That's a fun title. This is his middle aged crisis. You know he's up there. It was like my third middles his third When it came around to his third midlife crisis, he decided to film it. That's genius. So you do this movie. And I watched and by the end, I was like, Wow, that's a very apt title, because you can't kill David ar cat When did this wrestling thing begin? And why? What's the funk were you thinking? Well? I did a

movie called Ready to Rumble years ago. It was one of those like three studio films I did that kind of didn't get received very well, and it didn't even get received very well by the wrestling community at the time. It's a really over the top comedy, but it's since kind of grown some cult status. So I did this

movie Ready to Rumble. It was through Warner Brothers. Warner Brothers at the time owned w c W, which was like the competiting brand to w w E, the two largest wrestling companies, and to promote the film, I went on and I did some like appearance and got involved because Diamond Dallas paid a big wrestler at the time, and he's also the star of the film Ready to Rumble, and we'd become friends through the process. So I came and I did some in ring thing and it got

a really good reaction from the crowd. So they brought me back to do a second thing and they said we're going to make you the champion. That was wrestling fans, So I was like, no, that's all. Yeah. And since I was a kid. For since I was a kid, I always loved it. I'd go to the matches throughout the years and I saw Andre the Giant as a kid and it just kind of blew my mind. I just love it because my family goes back to Vaudeville. There's such a like a circule, this kind of connection.

I love clowns. I love you know, the circus world. You know wrestling was kind of connected to that, and this, you know sport that I believe for a long time was a normal sport where it's not sort of predetermined like it is. So it was like an opportunity. And all these guys that I was fans of, Hulk Hogan and Macho Man were all at this company, and so I was like, Oh, that would be amazing, and they said we're gonna make you the champion. I was like,

that's a terrible idea. Domdal's page said, well, listen if you if you don't do it, then it's over. There's no more promotion to ready to rumble, there's no more wrestling, like that's it. And I said, well, what if I do it? They say, you get to come with us for the next two weeks, travel with all this whole show, and you know, you're the champion for two weeks and then you'll lose it at the pay per view. I'd rather be champion for two weeks than not at all. Exactly,

That's what I thought. I thought, Oh, be the fan that finally became a champion. But the fact that I was a comedic actor from Hollywood, the they saw it. Married to some girl on sitcom. They didn't go for it, and they've projected me. They hated me for twenty years. They'd spit on me and yelled the most horrible things and like trying to pick fights with me and all this stuff. And then the internet, Who's day? The fans

fans wrestling fans and it was second. So you were the champion for two weeks and they rejected you could then though you were a Hollywood poser. Yeah, you're a Hollywood got to like get drunk with Rick Flair in a ball married to her. It was a huge baggage for you. Yeah, you need to be married to a woman with like scars on her face and everything. But so you're married to her and they think you're a

Hollywood poser. You do this for two weeks, But do you find that all of a sudden you want to get into the wrestling thing for real because you're sick of people thinking that you haven't got what it takes. Yeah. I mean when we were younger, we used to scrap all the time, get into little rumbles and fights and all this stuff. You know, But was it your pride the triggered you? Yeah, it was. I I hated that they were like, I was a wooss you know what

I mean? They just treated me like this, like little punk being bullied. I was constantly being bullied for like and I was like, shut up, I'm gonna prove my show. You show you? Yeah? I did? And how does that beginning? Who do you go to? Sit there and go I really really want to get into this. Who do you tell that to? It built up for years and then I had two stints put in my heart. I had a really bad reaction to a stress test. I thought

it was having no hard attack. And when I came out of it, I told my wife I've been really thinking about wrestling. She was like, what are you talking. Yeah. My current Christina, who's incredible. She produced the film You Cannot Kill David or Catch was McClarty. McClarty and she was a correspondent for E. Yeah. She went to n I U as a journalist and then did local news and then then E and we had met sort of

at an eighties boat party. She's just such a badass, Like the skill set that she got from being a journalist goes right into being a producer. So incredibly well. And her her uncle was like a chief of staff to Clinton his first term, so she just could really get stuff done. Two stents in your heart, You I want to begin my wrestling career, Well, it was what

did your wife? I literally was watching my life and seeing, like my friends, my family, my children, well kids, Well, this is a life if I if I don't make it through. And I didn't have like many regrets necessarily, But then I was thinking about wrestling. It was so strange to me that it was such a high on the list of like things that still were kind of gnawing at me. So I told her everyone wanted to

return to wrestling. I also knew I had to lose a bunch of weight and get in shape, and I just thought if I were to do this process, it would be fun to film it so that I could give wrestling fans a glimpse of the experience I had when I first wrestled. So the film covers the period of your launching of your legit wrestling career. Yeah this is twenty years later. Now twenty years later, two stants later, divorce later, You're gonna launch her wrestling career And Christina

doesn't sit there and call her a divorced Lawyer. She seems like she really got it together. What was her response? She thought it was crazy she did. It's all in the in the film. You know, there's also like this whole undertone was like my love for Randy Kaufman. Uh, he always loved wrestling. He actually went to Memphis and like wrestled for a year or two. Randy Piper was

one who slapped him. That was Jerry Lawler, JR. Lawler, j Lawler and he also I've wrestled Jerry Lawler in the in the Doctor Ventary, I got of the do a pile driver just like Andy, but it literally messed my neck up to this day. It's it's so much more dangerous and painful and like how physically challenging than anything I've ever done before. I never knew like how how real it is, Like it is more there's more

contact than you think. So my view of it, I mean, my sense of it is I think most people share this is that it's an extraordinary amount of physical conditioning. These guys and these women who do this look great. They're all athletic and ripped up and strong and powerful and muscled up and everything, and there's just enough reality

and just enough violence to make it look real. But it's all choreography, and I mean there is some spontaneity, but it's all worked out for the safety of those involved. You don't take somebody and smash their face through the glass table, you know, sometimes people do. Actually, you know, it is all like worked out. But what you learned very quickly that people in the ring sometimes have other

things going on in their life. There's something called a receipt, Like if somebody hits you with something, you can get a receipt to hit them back at some point. A lot of stuff happens in the wrestling ring. That's not when you work with like super pros, like the real pros. You could get in a ring with them and everything smooth, and you know, it looks like they're killing you. It's beautiful. Yeah, what was the most painful thing that happened to you

in the ring? We had this death match where I got stabbed in the neck with a light tube and that was pretty in those painful Yeah, that's the film, but that actually wasn't the most painful. I think the pile Driver by Jerry Lawler or um I got put through a table through my back out against Bully Ray. Those were some of the most painful. You hit the mat so hard all the time. I got this kind of reoccurring whiplash is pretty much what it is. One of my muscles that connects my shoulder to my neck

just has never been the same. But the really interesting thing is you learn a lot about acting like it has to be real, Like you have to tap into these emotions that you could tell a story without making a sound. You have to show that you're scared or like now you're filled with ancor yeah, and and it's all in your eyes and it's all in this thing. But it's also when you get into a wrestling room,

time speeds up. You'll do something and think like I'm gonna stop to the corner like an upset little kid, and I'll watch it back and I like, run to the corner. I was like, wait a second, I thought I took so much time doing that, But when you watch it back, it's so much quicker. So it teaches you to really be in the moment. There's this connection with an audience that you don't even have enough play. It does like then move into this, Oh, you're doing

a sport, You're combining. Like I was in my therapist office and I was like, oh, because my least favorite thing in the world is war and violence towards others, and I don't want to hurt anyone. So I was like, wow, that's my least favorite thing, and here I am simulating violence. Did this work that you put in for the film, the wrestling thing and coming back twenty years later, did that rekindle your love of acting as well? It did? Yeah, it did. It grounded me for one. It made me

really just grateful for life. There's something that I've always tried to do is sort of stay in touch with people, you know what I mean, not get all caught up in Hollywood and that world. I like people. I like really interesting characters that you'll meet in the world. So you find a lot of them in the rest of the world, and you see a lot of like human nature in the rest of the world. And yeah, it keeps you grounded. What did your sisters say about there?

They here in the film very fleetingly. What did they think about you getting light tube smashed in your face and all the stuff? Yeah, that wasn't Everyone was really upset about that. My wife was like, I just feel like you want to die, and I was like, I don't want to die, but I've definitely been beating myself up. I don't want to die, but I'm thinking about it. Mulligan, Honest, there's definitely a sado mastochistic element to deathmatch wrestling. People

are doing it for some reason. They're beating themselves up there, numbing themselves, They're kind of experiencing this. It's also this connection with these fans that are watching it and they're like blood hungry, like they freak out. There's like when I went into that room, they hated me, like they literally did not like me, and then when I was leaving they were cheering me. So I kind of want

them over in that moment. So here's this image I have of you because I've seen other people like this. I've seen people in the forty years that I've been working as an actor since nine, I've seen people where like the path you can take, and of course there are diverse paths, they're not all the same, but you achieve a certain place in the business where you can relax. You know there's work there if you want. It isn't always what you want to do, but one for them

one for you. You can make a little indie movie. It's a clever part. Now do you think that's true of you? Do you think there was a point where you just sat there and said, fuck this, man, I just can't. I can't be what they want me to be. Yeah, I don't. There's a lot about the business that doesn't appeal to me. And I just I'm horrible at auditions, So just doing auditions. But I've done a bunch of like little scrappy films just to like help first time

directors and this and that. Like you know, I've been acting for thirty years, and I mean that's set just super ultra low budget, just to still stay sort of connected to it all. It's a long journey, you know. And you're starting out and come to l A and you your grandfather is this famous actor, and your sisters become famous, and then you marry the prom queen and you go through everything you've gone through and look where you are now you're married. Your wife saidal yeah, you

have a lot to be grateful for. You got two little kids. You're still alive, even in spite of your best efforts, You're still alive. Yeah, And I get to have an interview with one of my heroes. You really are incredible actor. I've always been a huge fan. Listen. I hope you have a lot of great things coming up for you, man, because I think that you're really You're just so original, you know what I mean, You're so I watch you in that movie, and I hope

people watch this movie. They've got to see this movie. You can't kill David Arquette. It is really, really, really a lot of fun to painful. There's a lot of it's funny. I appreciate it. Thank you. That'st of luck to you, buddy, to my thanks to actors Eddie Marston and David Arquette. We're produced by Kathleen Ruth, Carrie Donohue and Zach McNeese. Our engineer is Frank Imperial. Thanks to Sarah every and Justin Wright. I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's the Thing is brought to you by iHeart Radio.