Douglas Horne Offers Proof of JFK Assassination Coverup

From the Warren Commission in nineteen sixty three, to the Church Committee in nineteen seventy five, to the US House of Representatives Select Committee on Assassinations in nineteen seventy six, none of them put to bed the questions surrounding the government's position that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone gunman. The JFK Assassination Records Collection Act of nineteen ninety two sought to finally establish some answers for the American public.

The Assassination Records Review Board AARRB followed. The independent federal agency was created to record and release as much information to the public as possible. My guest today Douglas Horn worked as chief analyst on the Military Records team for the AARRB in Washington, d C. He was a key participant in taking the depositions of ten witnesses to the JFK autopsy at Bethesda Naval Hospital in nineteen sixty three.

Horn claims to have seen evidence that finally proves what many have believed all along that the government was engaged in an extensive conspiracy to cover up the truth of the JFK assassination. Horn believes there is proof that the official autopsy and the famous Zapruder film which captured the events live, were both doctored. I wanted to begin with how Horn found himself working for the a r RB.

anti submarine warfare ships. So that was the same job every day ashore, you know, with no risk involved, you know, just going home and sleep at night, but still very much working for the same Navy, just in one in uniform, in the second one not in uniform. And so the way I was steered toward working for the review board was that was Oliver Stone's movie coming out, of course in nineteen ninety one, late nineteen ninety one and then into nineteen ninety two, there was a lot of talk

about his film, and that caused me to reread. One of the major books in my life was David Lufton's Best Evidence, which was all about the medical evidence. And while mister Lufton did not come up with all the answers, he did draw attention to a major problem, which was that the wound on the President's head seen at Parkland Hospital in Dallas, where he was treated, was totally different from the wounds depicted in the autopsy photographs taken it

Bethesden Naval Hospital. So he was very much concerned about that dichotomy and what was the reason for all that and so he shifted the focus from the single bullet theory, which had been the focus of the critics since the late sixties, to the head wounds, which I thought was appropriate.

So after Oliver Stones's film comes out and has a a grand theme of a domestic conspiracy and who might have been behind that, and I noted at the end of his film, as did everyone else, that he talked about how all of the sensitive records of the House Select Committee on Assassinations from the nineteen seventies were sealed.

We're under sealed for fifty years, which was outrageous since that was supposed to be a people's committee to explain to the American people what happened, and yet all their sensitive records are sealed. So that led to the drafting of the JFK Records Act by Robert Blakey. Now Robert Blakey was the Chief Council for the House Select Committee on Assassinations Chief Council for the HSCA, the second one after the first one was fired. The first one wanted to do a real murder investigation.

primarily by two different mindsets of people. So the mainstream senators, people like John Glenn and David Boren, who was head of the Intelligence Committee in the Senate, they supported the JFK Records Act because they said, we'll show all these people that think there was a conspiracy in this country to kill Kennedy and they think there was a cover up, We'll show them by releasing all the records. We'll let all the records come out and be put in a

public collection in the archives for public access. And that's why we support this bill. And then of course there were many others who supported the bill because they didn't trust the government and they thought that things were being withheld that were important and that the American people still didn't know the true story of what had happened. So this bill got bipartisan support and it was passed into law.

And so what happened to me was I went to my first JFK symposium in nineteen ninety three and it was in Dallas, and what I found out it was electrifying. There were people on stage for six days, people who were PhDs in history, mds philosophy majors, and accredited teachers who were discussing this subject. And then I realized that this validates all the books I've been reading for years, since I was a teenager, that there are serious problems with the evidence in this case.

did so. Then I proceeded to read the other first generation books Rushed to Judgment by Mark Lane, Accessories after the Fact by Sylvia Maher six seconds in Dallas.

the Review Board is a great story. I went to another symposium in nineteen ninety four in Washington, DC Research Symposium and the last speaker at the symposium was Jack Tunheim. So Jack Tunheim became the head of the Review Board. The five board members had just been approved by the US Senate and he had been elected by his peers

to be the chairman of the Review Board. So he came to speak to us and give his stump speech about what the mission of the Review Board was, which was essentially to act as librarians and force their way into government files, get agencies to cooperate and release records that had been withheld, records that were either still classified, or records that the agencies just didn't want released for some reason. They had parts of them redacted, partially obliterated

with blackouts, you know. So he was asked during his speech, are you still hiring staff, and he said, yes, we are, but you cannot have worked for a previous investigation to work for the Review Board. You cannot have worked for the Warren Commission or for the House Select Committee in the seventies, and you must not be a federal employee at the current time. You must not be a current federal employee. So I listened to that, I thought, okay.

I wrote out a resume overnight, and I went to the first public hearing the very next day of the Review Board. So the Review Board didn't really have a staff yet. They'd only hired one or two clerical people. But they had their first public hearing on how do we define what an assassination record is? We're going to try to get records released, how do we define an

assassination record? So they had a public hearing at the Archives and numerous leading lights of the research community showed up and gave their opinions, and I handed my resume to David Marwell. At the time, he was the staff director, David Marwell, and all they had hired at that time were, you know, like two or three other people. So over the next six or seven months, from the autumn of nineteen ninety four until March of nineteen ninety five, I

underwent a gauntlet of telephone interviews. So I was working back in Hawaii at this time for the Navy and my civil service job.

to your job after two or three years. I did not have return rights. I literally had to resign from civil service, and then they picked me up, and I took a big pay cut, about a thirty two percent pay cut to go work for this temporary agency in Washington, and they weren't going to pay for my plane ticket or my move.

My father was an ex marine, he was a Republican, my mother was a Democrat. So we had an interesting family with interesting dinner table conversations disagreements. But they'd also told me we're in the greatest country. And I had questioned that a few times, is that really true? Do you guys believe that? And they'd say, yes, of course it's true, and they would look at me like, why are you asking us? Well, this was the kind of reason I was asking them. I don't like being lied to.

I really don't like it. And if we're in a democracy that's functioning, the government shouldn't lie to the people, especially about important things. And the two most important questions I think that people should have on their minds as far as the government telling them the truth and being transparent is how do wars begin?

the really important things they do? And you believe that democracy is important and informed electorate is important, you should do something about it. So I felt the call to action, and I knew that this effort to get documents released was the last official body that would exist that was going to deal with this subject. And it was clear to me. So in the first place, why did I know that? Well, I knew that because the Congress, when they passed the JFK Records Act, they did not have

the guts to empower another investigation. The Review Board was not officially allowed to reinvestigate. Our job is to find and locate within the government assassination records and then to force agencies to release them directly to the archives. And then if the agencies were not willing to do that, and they still wanted to withhold some of these records, then they had to give them to this body called the Review Board, which was the middleman.

So I thought this is worth being a part of because it's an honorable thing to do to try to get the rest of these records released, no matter what they say, no matter what they tell us about the assassination. And I also had a great interest in the medical evidence, and I thought, this is my chance, one way or another to learn more about the part of the case that intrigues me the most were the conflicts and the medical evidence, because I mean, a body after someone's been

killed by gunshot is a map of the shooting. Where did the bullets go in, where did they come out? And the diagrams of those things tells you from whence the bullets came. So I knew that one of the people that had interviewed me, the head of Research and Analysis, Jeremy Gunn, was also the general counsel.

So officially they hired me because they needed another person on the military records team and they still had a vacancy there, and they also wanted to hire one person on the staff, just one who was widely read in the literature of the assassination, the literature by the critics, and so that I would know where to go and what book to find leads on where to find records. It was that simple on the surface. Beneath the surface, it was Jeremy Gunn someone of a like mind to

assist him with looking into the medical and medicals. And the reason is you might ask, well, how can you look into that if you weren't allowed to reinvestigate. Well,

this was a special case. It's a great story. Congressman Stokes from Ohio, from Cleveland, as it turned out, was still in office at the time, and he met with the five board members as they were going through their process of being confirmed by the Senate, and he told them at the time that no one was satisfied with the findings of the House elect Committee on Assassinations with regard to the medical evidence, no one was really satisfied, and that he encouraged them to do all they could

to quote clarify the record unquote in that area. And so the board members had a kind of an informal mandate from the former chairman of the HSCA Chairman Stokes, to do some let's call it quasi reinvestigation. Other words, the Review Board was never going to be allowed to publish findings of fact or conclusions. But what we were allowed to do was take depositions and conduct witness interviews.

So a deposition being a sworn witness interview with a court recorder, you know, making a record of it verbatim record, or disconduct unsworn interviews where we would write an interview report afterwards, and we can deposit those in the JFK records collection. So the American people have can have access to these depositions and interviews later and make up their

own minds. That was the whole idea, was that the American people could study the records placed in the JFK Records collection and make up their own minds about what had happened. That's all the Congress had stomach for. They did not have the stomach to empower a new investigation.

Records Team. The second area of interest was the medical evidence and the reason I got to do that as a military team member was it was a military autopsy, but as the Naval hospital, so that falls under the military team. That's the big unofficial reason why Jeremy hired me was I had an interest and a knowledge of that area. And the third area of interest which was developed as time went along was the Suppruter film, which we can get into later.

research assistant in preparing for each deposition. So I attended each deposition with Jeremy. I sat right next to him. I was allowed to pass him notes. I was expected to hand him the exhibit when he needed it, hand him the correct exhibit, constructive suggestions if he was forgetting an important question, or write him notes. But he was the only one allowed to speak to the witnesses.

Boswell gave us much more information than either of the other two, and for the first time we had split up the pathologists and done them on different days. They weren't in the room at the same time, so we got Boswell contradicting Humes on a number of occasions which had never happened before, which was very important. So two of the other important opponents were the two FBI agents who were present at the autopsy, Cybert and O'Neil. They had been interviewed briefly by Arlen Spector, one of the

Warren Commision staff attorneys who later became a senator. And he didn't get along with them. They didn't get along with him, and he decided he was not going to take their depositions. And even the report they wrote about what they witnessed at the autopsy was deep sixth and it wasn't published by the Warren Commission. It was in the archives, but the Warren Commission didn't publish it or deal with it.

So that the House Committee had interviewed them. The House staff had interviewed them each one time, and they wrote little interview reports, and then those reports were among the records that were sealed for fifty years, which was nonsense. And so we read their interview reports and all the other House Select Committee interview reports in nineteen ninety three when they were opened up by the JFKA Records Act

in ninety three, they became publicly available. So we had reviewed all of these medical witness interviews from the HSCA, and we decided, oh, we need to depose these FBI agents. The government hasn't taken their their statements under oath yet, so we did and they were very forthcoming and very willing to cooperate.

burning curiosity about the truth of this matter. I mean, I was five years old when Kennedy was killed, but I've been obsessed with it since I was, Like you said, since I think I picked up They've killed the President on a little turning book display in a seven to eleven on the South Shove of Long Island where I grew up, and there was Oswald's autopsy photograph his naked body on a slab.

Who cares? And even recently with Trump when he was in office, it was like, well, here it is again, We're going to roll out all the stuff and lay bare all the secrets and all the truths about Kennedy's assassination. And then nah, maybe not. Who do you think or who do you know? Because of all this work you've done with records, Who do you think really controls this information?

And who do you and therefore is suppressing it from being I'm assuming he's not the President's who controls this information and refuses to release it.

twenty seventeen, no matter what. So before that there was a staggered sequence of releases withholding names or withholding some sources and methods and things like that if they were considered sensitive. And in the year twenty seventeen, everything was supposed to be released and it wasn't. So we got a false alarm under Trump and then false alarms under Biden, where each time it was the CIA primarily they came

up and said, oh, not so fast, mister President. We object to the release of these remaining records, a few thousand records because we think it will damage national security. Just nonsense. This many years later.

and pronounced dead. I wanted ARRB chief analyst Douglas Horn to walk us through the events that followed.

then Jackie goes on board at two eighteen pm. And then the judge arrives at two thirty pm to swear hi men, to swear in LBJ, which many people have said was not necessary. But he wanted the public relations value of that photograph, and so he got it.

of the story. The Secret Service in radio conversations, which we have recordings of. Much of the conversations, part of them has been edited and remain edited. But the Secret Service decided that the autopsy is going to be at Bethesda Naval Hospital and that the body would go by helicopter. That was what they decided on the radio telling the airplane.

The people on the airplane wanted the autopsy at Walter Reed Army Hospital, and they wanted it to go buy a car, but the Secret Service said, no, we're going to do it at Bethesda and the Navy, and we're going to fly it by helicopter. So here's what happens. The plane comes to a stop at six oh four PM. A light gray Navy ambulance pulls up next to the airplane. Now that was a cardiac ambulance. It was not a hearse.

It was sent because there was a rumor that Lyndon Johnson had another heart attack like he had in the nineteen fifties. That was why that was sent there. So anyway, Jackie sees the gray ambulance and she says, we'll go in that. And nobody was going to contradict her in those circumstances. So the casket that the President was placed in Dallas, the heavy bronze casket was loaded somewhat unceremoniously by Secret Service agents and part of the military honor guard.

They're both kind of fighting over who's going to handle the casket. It's put into the cardiac ambulance because Jackie said, we'll go in that, and that drives away at about ten minutes after six. Is she in the car, Yes, she's in the car with Robert Kennedy and the President's military physician Berkeley, and the two Secret Service agents who were in the death car in Dallas. They're in there. Agent Greer's driving. He drove the limousine in Dallas and

he drove this cardiac ambulance. He kicked the driver out and he took over Gweer and who Greer and Kellerman and Roy Kellerman was in the right front seat of the limousine in Dallas, and he's in the right front seat of this like gray ambulance. So they all drive out and that car.

the day after the funeral. Funeral's on Monday, the twenty fifth November. He writes a report the next day, and he says the president's casket arrived at six thirty five PM. Six thirty five, that's twenty minutes before the motorcade arrives out front from Andrews. And not only that, it's in the wrong car and it's in the wrong kind of casket.

So other people who were present on the loading dock noted that the car that delivered the President at six thirty five PM was a black hearse, something that a funeral home would own, in this case Gawler's funeral home. They did the embalming on the President, so it's their car. And the casket taken off at six thirty five is not this ornate bronze viewing casket that was used in Dallas. It's a cheap aluminum metal shipping casket that you would

use to ship bodies on airplanes and trains with. So we have the new time marker, the real time marker of six thirty five PM when JFK really arrives at Bethesda, and we have other witnesses, very reliable witnesses, Navy Petty Officer Dennis David and others that'd say, yes, it's arrived in a blackhearse and we unloaded the casket. It was a cheap gray metal box. It was not a fancy viewing asport casket. Yeah right, it was a transport ca So the real question is and so let's give the

audience to the other time marker. The honor guard is separate and distinct from the security guard. So the security guards at the morgue or Sergeant Boyagian's team of Marines from the Marine barracks, they're people wearing the same uniform and they're carrying guns, and that's their jobs to provide physical security. The honor Guard are people that assembled at Andrews Air Force Base. There are people from all the

different military services plus the Coastguard. They're in dress uniforms, they're wearing white gloves, and they do not have guns and their jobs to serve as pall bearers an honor guard. So they carry the Dallas casket, the bronze expensive casket, and at eight o'clock PM, much later, not until eight o'clock PM, and the official autopsy starts shortly after eight o'clock PM, and in fact, the FBI agent's recorded in their report that the first incision was at eight to fifteen.

So we've got some problems here.

that means something to them. It's not an ornate viewing coffin. It's a shipping casket. So the question is what happened to his body between six thirty five when it really arrived and eight o'clock PM when the honor guard takes in the bronze casket. What happens for those it's almost ninety minutes. It's an eighty five minute period. What's happening

to his body. I'll cut to the chase and give you the big picture now, because I think it's important that people have that in their minds, and then we can go back and tie up any loose ends if you'd like after. But here's what really happened. The President arrived with the same wounds he had on his head

in Della Texas. A big blowout in the right rear of his head, about the size of a baseball or a human fist, in the right rear of his head, not in the top of his head, and not on the right side of his head, in the right rear of his head. That's the blowout that's missing bone and scalp. A flap, Well, there was more than just a flap with.

And he wrote a report a week later, and he testified the following spring, and he said the same thing each time, that the right rear of the President's head was missing, and that a piece of bone with hair on it was lying in the back seat. So it's very clear from him and from the Dallas doctor's treatment notes, the treatment notes they made the day that the President died, that there is a large area of missing bone and scalp in the right rear.

three people. And this is a teaching hospital, so you've got a bleachers there, three rows of bleachers, very large audience there. The wounds look totally different after eight o'clock at night. The entire top of the head is gone. All the bone on the top of his head has been removed. There's nothing but shredded scalp on the top.

on an examination table. You can't see the back of his head because his head is supported in a metal stirrup or head brace, so all you can see is the right side, which is rather gory looking, flapped out, big temporal bone flap flapped out, and the top of the head missing like what. So I'm telling you that that's what was going on between the early arrival of

the president's body and they started the autopsy. His wounds were expanded to gain access to his brain and remove all the metal that could be found from his brain.

way he arrived. This is what the bullet did. It blew off part of the back of his head and the entire top of his head and part of the right side of his head. It blew it all away, and so the audience was disbelieving of this. There this audience was were medical staff the hospital, They were heads of department and other physicians, and so they were aghast

at this macabre scene that they saw. After eight o'clock, some of the people you deposed, the House Committee interviewed some of these people in the audience, and what we have over the years is there were two Navy cormen who were present assisting the three pathologists all night long. The two Navy cormen were Paul O'Connor and James Jenkins.

And so what they told the House Committee and what they've told researchers over the years after the gag order was lifted in the seventies, was that the audience was hostile in disbelieving that a bullet, one bullet could have caused all this cranial damage. And it's even worse than that. Alec Jim Jenkins, this corman I just mentioned, witnessed after

eight o'clock. He witnessed the brain of the president literally fell out of his cranium into the hands of doctor Humes, and doctor Humes said, quote unquote, the damn thing's fallen out in my hands, quote unquote. That just doesn't happen, Alex. I mean, your brain is connected to your spinal cord and there are other structures connecting the brain to the bottom of your cranium, and.

been removed earlier. And Jim Jenkins is still alive, and he insists today that it had to have been removed earlier that evening because a brain just doesn't fall out of your cranium like that, and his job is to infuse the brain. So the brain was put upside down in a sling, in a bucket of fromaldehyde, and it was his job to infuse the arteries. You know, the carotid arteries go up through your neck into your brain.

And so the brain that had been removed was put upside down in a bucket in a sling, and it was Jenkins's job to infuse the arteries with fromaldehyde from a big container on top of a cabinet. And he had a very hard time infusing formaldehyde into the brain because he said the arteries had been cut earlier and were retracting all by themselves. They were shrinking and shriveling up and retracting, and he says, that's proof that the

brain was removed earlier that night. He says, also the brain stem had been severed on the left and the right with two surgical cuts. It was not torn, two surgical cuts that were on different planes, on different levels. So he noticed all this when he was infusing the brain. So that's evidence to him that the brain was removed earlier that evening. So Humes and Boswell are engaged in a charade after eight o'clock. You have to understand this.

The audience expresses disbelief that this damage could all have been caused by one bullet. And at that point, Humes says, and the FBI agents recorded this that that's why the Warrant Commission didn't want to publish their report. They said, he said that it was apparent that surgery had been performed on the top of the head. Humes said that, and they recorded what he said. Now, I think he panicked,

is what happened. He panicked because Jim Jenkins recalls doctor Boswell Humes's colligue saying to the people in the gallery. There were flag officers, generals and admirals in the gallery, and they saying to them, whe is there surgery performed and died? Yeah? Boss says that, yeah, yeah. And so here's the problem. Boswell created this famous sketch from the autopsy, which is the damage to the top of the president's head. And if you look at that sketch today, you'll see

that it's only the top of the head. So when he makes the sketch, the President's lying on his back on the examination table. He's sketching the damage to the top of the head, and what he sketches is totally unlike anything seen at Parkland Hospital. He sketches the entire the bone and the entire top of the head missing, and he writes the dimensions of this area ten by seventeen centimeters missing. So he was asked by the House Committee and then by the Review Board under oath, what

do these notations mean? You drew a dotted line around the top of the head ten by seventeen missing. He said, this is the area that was totally devoid of bone, and so he would he's representing in his sketch and for posterity that this was all removed by the assass

bullet blown out. And of course we went down to Dallas, Jeremy Gunn and I. We interviewed three people who saw the president's body while he was being treated, who were not interviewed by the Worn Commission, and we asked, Nurse Bell and doctor Crenshaw, did you see any damage to the top of the President's head? And they looked at us like we were crazy, and they said no. Then they used that tone of voice, they said no. They

were astonished that we would ask. They said, the top of his head to all appearances, appeared to be intact. They said there was no bone sticking out, and the hair appeared to be intact. There was blood everywhere. There was a lot of blood. And so what Boswell is doing, I think, is making a sketch before eight o'clock PM of the damage incurred by this post mortem surgery to sanitize the crime scene. And he's representing it as damage from the assassin's bullet. And it's a con job, to

be honest with you. So if you marry up his sketch with the two Grizzly autopsy photos that show the top of the head missing, they more or less match. And yet so here's what we did, which was really fascinating. We knew we had a two dimensional diagram made by Boswell of just the top of the head and the bone missing from the top of the head. And I had suggested to Jeremy Gunn I said, we need to present him with a skull model. I said, I know

where to get one. I can build one that's anatomically correct. It's got all the sutures in it, where the bones really are and everything. We can ask him to turn that two dimensional sketch into a three dimensional sketch so that we can find out was there any bone missing in the back. And so we did that, and doctor Boswell marked on the skull model and it's in the archives. You can see it today if you make an appointment

and go look at it. That not only according to him, is the bone missing in the top of the head and on the right side of the head, but it's all missing in the right rear also, in other words, the place where the Dallas doctors said it was gone in the right rear. It's also missing there, but also in the top and the right side. So he was honest about that much. At least, he was honest about the fact that all the bone was missing in the right rear, whereas doctor Humes wasn't. He lied and said,

oh no, that was all that was all intact. It was fractured, but it was all intact. None of it was missing. And then a week later, under oath, Boswell contradicts him and tells us the truth that, oh no, that was missing too.

assassination began almost instantaneously. Horn collected data and evidence that he claims can prove that the conspiracy stretched from Washington, d C. And Bethesda Naval Hospital in Maryland to Parkland Hospital in Dallas.

This is shortly before two pm. He's in this bronze ornate casket, the casket sealed. It's on a church truck, a vehicle with wheels. They can go up and down like an a accordion. The lift scissors lyft and they're

wheeling it out. So the widow is there and the Secret Service is moving this thing, and one of the funeral home people, Aubrey Reich, he's there, and so there's this profane exchange of shouting and pushing between members of the Secret Service who insist on removing the body and taking it to Washington, and this honest County corner Earl Rose. He says, no, we're going to comply with the law and do an autopsy in Texas. And so they were bound and determined that there was not going to be

an autopsy in Texas. And so, you know, they brandished their weapons, They pulled aside their coats and showed their pistols, and one of them even had a submachine gun. And so he was actually picked up and slammed against the wall. Eventually, and one of the doctors and attendants who witnessed this said in a recorded interview in the eighties, he said, they told doctor Rose, if you don't get out of the way, we will run you over with the casket.

So this is a very heavy, four hundred plus pounds bronze casket when it was empty with a body inside. We're going to run you over with a casket. And all of this unseemly behavior is occurring in front of the poor widow. It's really really macabre and disturbing.

always the quandary. But there's people on the ground in Dallas, and there's people in Bethesda awaiting them, and we're switching coffins, and we're switching cars, and we're doing this and that, and we're having bodies arrive ninety minutes, you know, unaccounted for until later on it's accounted for, but arriving and then doing their work, you know, their cover up work, fumes and so forth. Now the other aspect I want to talk to you about, which is even more we're

kind of devastating us. As most people know, the most vital piece of this whole thing is the Zapruder Film. For most Americans, it's a movie taken by Abraham Zapruder. I think he's a dressmaker. Correct, he's in the clothing business.

of Supruders. There he's filming the event. Where does that film go in a timeline after that?

I'll stay with you. Let's get it developed. And so everybody goes together to the local TV station. Zapruter does a brief interview, and the reason they went there was he mistakenly thought they might develop it for him. Well, they didn't have the capability. This is a special codochrome two daylight film. There's only four code act plants that can develop this in the entire country, and one of them is in Dallas. But the TV station can't do it.

They can only do black and white newsreel film. So he does a little interview there and then the people he's with, numerous people, they take him over to the Kodeac plant. So the original film shot in his camera Bell and Howe movie camera is developed in the Kodak plant in Dallas that afternoon, and it's a double eight film, and it's a double eight means that you've got a piece of film. I'll keep it real simple here, sixteen

milimeters wide. Double eight means you got one strip on one side, side A, that's eight milimeters wide, one strip on the other side that's another eight milimeters wide, Side A and side B, and they're upside down and backwards from each other. So when you shoot your twenty five feet of side A, which he had already done at home with a home movie, you've got to flip the film around in the camera. The take up reil becomes

the new supply reel, and vice versa. And so the assassination was on side B, it was on the other side of the film. And so what they have developed is a double eight film that's still sixteen milimeters wide, it's got images upside down and backwards, and it's not yet slit down the middle. So they look at it quickly in a sixteen milimeter projector to make sure it's

good images, very good images, crystal clear. So he says, okay, I want three copies of this today, and they said, oh, if you want copies, we're not going to slit this film down the middle. Yet, because normally what they do is they slid a film down the middle, and then you've got instead of one sixteen millimeter wide double eight film that's twenty five feet long, you would have two eight millimeter films a total of fifty feet long after they splice them together. So they said, okay, we're not

going to slit these yet. We're going to give you three rolls of a film that you can use as duplicating film. We're going to send you over to another lab where you can have this copied on what we call a contact printer. They said, we don't have a contact printer. We're a developing lab. We're Kodak. We just develop movies. So you go over to the Jamison lab.

We'll call them and tell them you're coming. And I said, that's what he did, and he handed them his camera, original film still sixteen milimeters wide, and the three rolls of duplicating film, and they ran off three identical copies for him on a contact printer, and then he took those three copies and the original back over to Kodak, and then Kodak had to also develop the three copies. So once they did, and once Kodak determined that the

three copies were pretty good contact print copies. They were a little bit soft, but they were pretty darn good copies, and of course the original was needle sharp. Then they slid all four down to eight millimeters in width so they could be shown on an eight milimeter home projector. So here's what happens. Later in the day, he goes downtown to see Forest Sorels, who's the Secret Service agent

that took into the Kodak plant in the first place. Well, Sorels left and he's now busy with the interrogations of this fellow named Oswald. And so Sorels says, don't bother me, I'm busy. I don't have time for your film. He says, why don't you take it? Go downtown to my office, and if you want to share a couple of your copies, give him to Agent Max Phillips. So the recruiter before

he goes home Friday night, he goes downtown. He gives two of his three copies to Agent Max Phillips of the Secret Service, and he keeps with him the camera original and one of the copies. So of the two copies he gave the Secret Service that night, they flew one to Washington, d C. To the head of the Secret Service overnight on an airplane and then arrived before dawn the next day. That's fine, that makes sense to me. The other copy that the Secret Service had in Dallas,

they loaned to the FBI. The next day, they loaned it to the local FBI. The FBI flew at the Washington and it was at FBI headquarters starting Sunday, right after midnight early am Sunday. So then what Zappruter has in his possession the next morning, which is what's important. Saturday, November twenty third, he has the camera original eight millimeter and he has one of his eight milimeter copies remaining.

He meets with Dick Stolly of Life magazine, the West Coast editor who had flown out to Dallas to do this negotiation. Stolly offers him some money and Zupruter just smiles at him. It wasn't enough, So finally Stally says, okay, the maximum I'm allowed to offer you is fifty thousand. So the first of two contracts was cut that day for fifty thousand dollars. The Pruter agreed to do this.

He would only loan the original film, loan it for a week to time Life, and then all they would be able to do make stills was make still copies of individual frames, still still picture rights, not motion picture rights, still picture rights, and after a week they would return the original to him and he could do whatever he wanted with it, then sell it as a movie, and he would then give him his remaining copy give it to them after a week. So that's the deal that's

cut on Saturday. I'm going to tell you about the new deal that was cut on Monday, and then I'll tell you why that was necessary. On Monday, there's a new contract cut by Life magazine, and it's bizarre because it's not to their benefit. It's toz the pruter's benefit. So now the total amount of the sale goes up from fifty thousand to one hundred and fifty thousand total.

Douglas Horne spent years collecting documents and witness testimony involved in the jfk assassination. One of the puzzle pieces he worked on was what happened to the Supruter film? After Life Magazine initially purchased the rights to it for one week's time.

the part that remains unchallenged today. That's the fact. What happened to it after it got to Chicago is not what Loud and Wainwright and the mainstream or a research community has maintained. It did not stay in Chicago all weekend, as has been claimed for years. Here's what really happened. Two Secret Service agents or people who said they were Secret Service, intercepted the film in Chicago at some point, either at the airport or at the time Life Publishing plant.

I'm going to assume it's at the time Life Publishing plant probably. Those two agents show up with the original Suppruiter film in Washington, d C. At ten o'clock PM on Saturday night. The same day, ten o'clock pm. They had not seen the film yet, so they're couriering it. They're bringing it from wherever they came from. But Obviously they came from Chicago because that's where it was sent

by Dick Stalley. Who did they deliver it to. They deliver it to the CIA's National Photographic Interpretation Center, which is abbreviated Inpick. So the job of Enpick that night was to make briefing boards. And simply put, briefing boards are stiff panels with blowups from individual frames, just still picture blow ups of individual frames. Paste it onto the briefing board so you can brief government officials on what does the film show what happened? So the Secret Service

agents tell Brigioni what prints they want. He had to go out and buy an eight milimeter projector in the dark at night, because you know it's an eight milimeter film. They didn't have an eight milimeter projector. They view it several times. They then make the selections the Secret Service, these are the ones we want. They leave town with a film at three am Sunday. He doesn't know where

they're going. We know now where they went. They went to Kodak headquarters, to the Research and Development Lab Worldwide Research and Development Live.

back to Endpick to a different work crew. Dino Brugioni and his high level confederates were not called in the next night, a different work crew was called in. Bill Smith tells them, this film just came from Hawkeye Works in Rochester, which was the code name for this the classified portion of this film lab the classified portion used

by the CIA. And he lied. Then he said, well, this was donated by a patriotic American who didn't want to make any money, so he donated it to the government, and the original film was developed at Rochester at Hawkeye Works, and we want you guys to make briefing boards of it.

So he told two big whoppers, two lies. So what you've got going on here is that I've concluded with a very high level of assurance that this film was crudely altered over about a twelve hour period on Sunday, November twenty fourth at Hawkeye.

of the head that was seen at Parkland Hospital. And the reason this had to be done was the people in charge of this cover up, they already knew that the photos of the back of JFK's head, few of the few photos of the back of his head from the autopsy, were going to show no damage to the back of the head. They were going to be doctored, and they have been. They don't reference.

going to alter the film. And so the reason you're making a second set of briefing boards on Sunday night is you're making briefing boards from a sanitized, altered film which blacks out the huge exit wound in the right rear of the head. And so some people in Hollywood who are good friends of mine, Sidney Wilkinson and Tom Whitehead, Sidney purchased a film from the National Archives, a copy, a thirty five millimeter copy, a dupe negative of the

so called original film in the archives. Sidney Wilkinson and her husband, Her husband is Tom Whitehead. They're a team and he's a Hollywood video editor and she's been involved with him and.

state of the art. So when the movie's Ten Commandments and ben hur were restored, you know they were four K, so six K was even a higher level of resolution than that. At the time. He used the best scanner you could get, a six K scanner. Every frame was scanned, and later he made two K scans, which are a high definition like you're HDTV, So he had high resolution scans of the frames, and he discovers these crude black

patches over the back of the head. The worst one is framed three seventeen, the most egregious, but also frames three twenty one and three twenty three are particularly bad, and so they clearly show artwork animation blacking out the back of the head. And obviously the artist wanted it to look like a shadow, but shadows on human hair don't have straight lines like the state of Ohio.

In between those two travel events, they had about twelve hours to alter the film. And we even know how

they did it now. I mean, there's a textbook. The first textbook ever published on special effects techniques was by Professor Raymond Fielding The Technique of Special Effects Cinematography in nineteen sixty five, and he describes the two effects techniques, the only two techniques available in nineteen sixty five, which is a traveling matt which is very complicated involves many passes through a camera, and aerial imaging, which is very simple.

It involves one pass through a camera. So it's clear that an aerial optical printer, an aerial optical printer, a modified Oxbury optical printer with an animation stand attached, was used to alter this film. And then you just simply you draw whatever artwork you want on a clear acetate cell, you put it on the animation stand and rephotograph the frame that you've altered in a process camera, and then

you create a new film by rephotographing the frames. You want a rephotograph, rephotograph all the frames, and that way you can optically edit the film and take out things you don't want to be in the film, like the exe debris traveling to the left rear in Dailly Plaza. You don't see that in the film. There were plenty of people that saw it that day, and Sappruter's partner Schwartz,

saw it in the film. He watched that film copy that they retained fifteen times that weekend and he saw debris traveling to the well.

other until the late seventies, after the Congress. The Department of Defense lifted the gag order at the request of the HSCA, but the main technique used was intimidation and fear. So all the Navy personnel involved in the autopsy had to sign what we call a letter of silence. That's what we call They were threats that you will be court martialed. If you even discuss the events that you witnessed at the autopsy, you will be court martialed.

But the idea that they told some of the more significant players that the Russians did this, all right, and if you say anything, we need to make sure that everything is such that it's a single guy who's alone nut, because if you say it's a conspiracy, it's more than one person. It's the Russians and we're gonna have World War three? Do you want World War III? Do you want the atomic bomb? Death? Using the atomic bomb? Reference

from back then. Do you want the atom bomb death of forty million Americans in a single day to be on your shoulders, your mouth shut because the Russians did this to Kennedy.

Communists did it. We know they did it. And so it's your job to remove evidence and not report any shots from the front when at the autopsy you're only going to report shots from behind loan government and so yeah, and so this is what would have been used on others later who maybe expressed discomfiture or who wanted to speak out, is that no, this is on patriotic You're you're endangering the country. We could have forty million deaths.

That's what Lyndon Johnson told people when he got people to sit on the Warrant Commission who didn't want to. So all I can all I want to lead with your audience is the final conclusion today that I have with great certainty after talking to a lot of medical experts is that there was one head shot from behind, but it was not from the book depository. It was from down low, almost horizontal, probably from the Dalte's building. There were two head shots from the front Alex. Two

from the front. One entered the right temple just right in front of the ear, in the hair, right in front of the ear, where nobody at Parkland saw the entry wound. And the other shot from the front was very high in the forehead above the corner of the right eye, very high in the forehead, and that would have been hidden by the President's bangs at Parkland had long hair in the front, so they didn't see that. So all they saw was a big exit wound in

the back. But there were two head shots from the front, one from behind. That means conspiracy period. And this evidence is embedded in the Skullx rays. So I've got a YouTube movie coming out in a month or two. I've already recorded the thing. It's in post production now, but explaining the Skullex rays and how to interpret them, and all these great geniuses who examined these for years were obviously not willing to tell the whole truth. They were hiding the other half of the story, which is we

also had two shots from the front. The evidence in the skulls rays of two entry wounds in the front, one high in the forehead and one just close to the right ear, just barely above the right ear, is as obvious as the news on your face. And for the Clark panel in nineteen sixty eight and for the House Select Committee forensic panel to not identify these means that it was they were willfully blind.

He had a switch he could operate on his camera called slow motion, which meant it instead of filming at sixteen frames per second, he could film at forty eight frames per second and all he had to do is push down on the switch. And I think that if he filmed this movie with three times the normal frames, it would have been easy to remove a brief car stop without a jump cut, and which is what you have in the film. You don't see a massive jump cut, but you do see the car slowing a little bit,

and they had to. And I think that's how you can remove EXITD debris frames, remove the EXITD debris frames which indicate shots came from the front, and remove this brief car stop which probably contained the car stopping and evidence of different head hits, you know, happening at a different time. Remove all that without it showing up as a jump cut, because he really filmed the event, I think at forty eight frames per second, not sixteen.

Our engineer is Frank Imperial. Our social media manager is Daniel Gingrich. Here's the Thing is recorded at CDM Studios in New York. I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's the Thing is brought to you by iHeart Radio