Alan Gilbert Is Leaving the NY Phil Even Better than He Found It

stay vital, traditional enough to stay solvent. A familiar Stravinsky tour to Force, for example, tends to sell many more tickets than a piece by a living composer. Frequent concert goers, after all, average sixty years old. Almost one third say they'd go less often if programs included more contemporary music. If anyone could thread that needle, it was Gilbert, the son of two former New York philm violinists. He'd literally grown up with the institution, but his heart beats to

newer edgy or music that's legram macabre. Gilbert's first big project with the philm it was a hit, sold out the entire run huge reviews. He showed it was possible the Philharmonic can evolve and triumph, but some of his later modern programs met with smaller crowds and internal opposition. Last year, Gilbert announced he was phasing himself out of the job. Directing an ensemble as technically perfect as the

philm poses at least one unexpected challenge. In a way, I would almost say that it's to keep them from being too professional to remember how how it feels to share the experience of playing music together, as if it were the first time. I remember the first time I played in an orchestra. It must have been dreadful. It was the Juilliard Pre College Orchestra and I was the last chair of second violinist. I just squeaked into the best orchestra in pre College, and we were reading Bram's

Third Symphony for the first time. And it's one of the hardest pieces to play, and and it had to have sounded, you know, wretched at this first reading, but I was so thrilled. It was so exciting to hear the entire group playing the same piece, and I thought it was probably the greatest thing that it ever happened, as you know, in the history of orchestras, and that sense of enthusiasm and discovery and freshness is um is difficult to preserve. The schedule that the New York Philharmonic

maintains is just ridiculous. Do you recommendly do less, absolutely less music, more time, more time off. It's kind of like being on a hamster wheel um that just keeps keeps going on and on. And I've said this many times and I really believe it. New York is the toughest music market in the world and has a constant parade of the greatest orchestras coming through and the next greatest orchestras coming through, all bringing their a game. People don't play in New York on tour unless they have

prepared as well as they possibly can. They play in their programs, they try them in different venues. Finally they're ready for the big time in New York. They play in New York and they and they tried to knock it out of the park. The New York Philharmonic plays every week in New York normal for rehearsal, schedule, new program next week for rehearsals, new program. I guarantee you.

If we gave the New York Philharmonic schedule book to any other orchestra in the world and say, okay, you play this, people's perceptions of the relative merits of orchestras would would shift. I mean, if you can achieve something incredibly artistic after a lot of hard, hard work, great more power to you. But the fact is that the New York Philharmonic is playing under a much more challenging circumstances.

Why why is the Philharmonic so extensive? Why there are a lot of challenges that are just inherent in the in the situation that surrounds the New York Philharmonic. There's there, um, you know, their demands to generate revenue, to always have ticket sales, and they're fixed costs that are are being paid all the time, whether or not the orchestra play space of this space, and for the musicians themselves, and and and um it's I guess efficiency. You know, I'm

not in the business office. Uh, you know, thankfully for you know, everyone involved. But um, but the fact is that people look at the schedule and say, oh, look at this law. We could do another concert here, So you know, let's see maybe this is the place we could do a benefit concert, or maybe if we have we have one rehearsal and one concert, what can we do with one rehearsal one concert? And the idea is to, you know, to use the orchestra to the extent possible

allowed by the contract. And when that kind of thinking starts, to to forget to take over. But even creep in Um, the artistic health of the orchestra and the sort of call it esthetic integrity of the musicians is not the first These are not the first things that are being considered. The number of notes that they played. We did dust Rheingold Complete. I mean, that's just like ridiculous. It's two

and a half hours of incredibly hard music. And then we did Moller's Seventh Symphony, which is like unbelievable, be difficult. And then we just jumped immediately into Um into the Parks program, which is also hard. Divorce a New World and symphonic dances from West Side Story sounds easy when the sourcier plays it. It's one of the hardest pieces to play. Gershwin in American in Paris, and we also had a concert up at St. John the Divine for Memorial Day mall or fourth Symphony thrown in. I mean

it's it's it's yeah, it's hard now. Um obviously, um, everybody knows your story, first native New Yorker to lead the orchestra, and your family and your mom and dad being the orchestra, you being the little kid with the banning everybody's passports. Go ahead, No, no, no, it's just I've just fond memories when I when I think back, I knew everybody in the orkstra and you everybody's name, and uh, I remember sitting on the plane. Do you

remember Mattel Electronics Football? That was like the first video game, and it was like these little red blips that didn't even move, but the next one would light up as the ball went and stuff. It was certain, by today's standards, unbelievably rudimentary, but I love that game, and so did Roland coll Off. He was the principal timpanist, so he we would play this game together and then later on it became the Rubik's Cube, and and uh, you know, I would hang out with with the orchestra, and it's

amazing to think that it's come to this. You started playing an instrument, you were how old. Um, I always had a violin Um from the time I was really really little. West or other people. Well, you know, we have a kind of violent, happy family. Um. My parents were both are both violinists, and my father's father was a violinist, and and his brother is a horn player, but he also studied the violin, and his sister as a pianist, but she also studied the violin. And my

sister is a violinist. It's a bit let's not even get into it. It's you know, it's it's. It is what it is. But I did not want it. I mean, kids don't just take up an instrument for the most part when they're really little, unless their parents try to try to set up something. But it's it's. Um. I think it's cuts both ways. It's certainly helpful, and I think it's served me very well to have come from a musical family and to have been around the world

that I actually inhabit full time now. But that was that was what I knew growing up. But if you are self motivated and have to do it on your own, that also can lead to a certain kind of strength. When did you understand that you were good, that you could really really play. How old we when someone said to you, you really good? You know. I went to Juilliard pre college. Certainly they were more dazzling violinists around, so I never thought I was one of the best.

But I could play, and and I knew that, you know, if I wanted to, I could become a professional violinist. That was something that, yeah, I knew I was good enough to earn a living. And the one difference I've noticed more than anything with between people who come from musical families and people who come from families in which nobody is a musician is many of those people are told by their parents, Oh, it's a it's a risky profession.

You know, you should go into something that's more secure, more where you know, income is more guaranteed, you know, don't you know They imagine the life of bohemian musician who's you know, scraping to get by just from day to day. I never once doubted that I could make a living, at least to get by as a musician, because I saw what my parents didn't. It just didn't occur to me that music wasn't a viable profession. If you see what I mean, to Fields. Well, I went

to Fieldston, but Juilliard pre College was a Saturday weekend program. Um. So when you leave Fieldston, where do you go? I went to Harvard I um, um, not no, not, I just went for Harvard. I you know, I wanted to go and I thought it would be an exciting place to be. And it was because there there are a lot of very passionate people who were you know, whatever they're doing, they're doing it because they're really interested and

in you. The conversations you would hear at the in the dining room were about anything, you know, ranging well, I was. I finally graduated as a music concentrator, but that was more convenience than than the fact that it was really what I wanted to study. At Harvard, I did get a good education in music theory and composition and history and things like that. Um, it's almost not

at all performance at Harvard. Um. You know, people would joke with a certain degree of accuracy that at Harvard music was meant to be um seen and not heard. But I was also studying violent and we organized many concerts. But I was what I really was interested in was English and poetry, and I took as many courses in in in those subjects as I could. Finally, since I was just because of the distribution and because I was pretty lazy student, actually, it just made more sense to

graduate as a as a music concentrator. Curtis exactly right. And all this time you're still performing, You're still playing the violin, and you have a sense at some point that you you said that, you know, although you knew you could make a living at him and get a seat at some ensemble around the world, that you knew you weren't the greatest wind does conducting enter the conversation?

My dad is a good conductor, and um, you shouldn't get the idea that he was this kind of fierce, you know, tiger dad, you know, compelling me to pursue conducting, because it wasn't like that at all. But he did show me certain basics of conducting technique, the patterns of moving your arms for beating four and in three, and how to start beethoven Fifth Symphony, which is a challenging start because it starts with the rest. There's the first impulses of silence, you know, pop up up that there's

a impulse. That's a tricky thing to conduct actually, even though it's you know, the iconic moment in music UM, so I had some sense of what conducting was about. And when I was in pre College, because I was the concertmaster in my senior year UM, there were rehearsals that uh, the conductor asked me to take over, so I did string sectionals conducting the orchestra. It was kind

of lucky the way I first actually student. At the time I first stood in front of an orchestra, there was a guest conductor for one of the programs at the Pre College orchestra did and it was conducted by

a guy by the name of Ronald Bronstein. And because of scheduling issues or for whatever reason, the next rehearsal after his concert, in other words, the first rehearsal of the next cycle for the next for the next program was going to be conducted by our regular conductor, Roger Nirenberg Um, but he couldn't get back for that one rehearsal. So Ronald Um, instead of starting to rehearse Rogers program, decided to give some of the students in the orchestra

the chance to conduct. And it happened that my sister was walking down Broadway and ran into him and he told her what he was planning to She was all in the orchestra and um, she said, oh, I bet my brother would be interested in that. Just this is your Bernstein Carnegie Hall moment, well in a way, on an incredibly small scale, and uh, you know, I gave him a call and he said, yeah, okay, you're lucky. There's one more slot you can prepare the first moment

of Divortox six Symphony. And I worked with my dad for two or three days and I had my moment in front of the orchestra and it was completely new and completely terrifying. And after that, you know, sometimes these first moments with with a new experience are so crucial and they really determine the direction that you end up going. Could either go, you know, one direction, or if it doesn't, if the experience is negative or difficult or scary in

the wrong way, you end up completely giving up. But he said something to me after, and I don't know, I'm sure it was hyperbole or just kind of he was throwing words around, and he said, you know, if I had my way, I'd kick out the entire class at Yard and I'd put you in the conducting class there. He said, you have talent, and I was like wow.

So when I went to Harvard, then I had had this experience of of conducting, and almost right away when I got there, I auditioned to be assistant conductor of the Harvard Back of Orchestra, which I got. I think I was lucky. It was unusual for a freshman to

get a position like that. But because of that, I actually got to conduct the orchestra and performance and do rehearsals and things, and using the videotape from one of those performances, I applied to Tanglewood for the summer conducting program at Tanglewood with Sachos and Gustav Meyer, and I got in, and uh so I was able to start

studying there. The big crossroads for me came when I was getting ready to graduate from college and I was planning to go to a conservatory, and I had to really decide while I go as a violence or as a conductor um And I decided to apply as a conductor because I figured sort of what I already had thought. I you know, I'm a decent violinist. I could I could make a living as a violinist, even if I don't go study at a conservatory. Now, um, let's just

see how how the conducting thing goes. So I ended up getting into Curtis and I went to Curtis for three years, and then I continued with the same teacher otto Vene Mueller at Juilliard. I got my master's degree. Um, so Curtis and then Juilliard after that. Yeah, I can't complain about my education, and I have no academic stone unturned. Yeah, I was conducting during those two periods as well. Yeah, Curtis and and drew itard. Although I did study violin, it was it was wonderful. I got to a new

steer sharply in the direction of conducting. And I was Curtis and Juilliard. I was a conducting conducting student. But while I was at Curtis, I studied violin with Yosha Brodsky, one of the great violent teachers who was there at the time. And I also um auditioned to be on the Philadelphia Orchestra substitute musician lists. And just because of the way things were the those years, there were a lot of openings. I think a couple of people were

on sick leave. There were people out on maternity leave or whatever. And I played basically full time in the Philadelphia Orchestra while I was studying at Curtis as a violinist, you know, for me, as a non pro if you will, but a devoted fan of that music, someone will play the fourth movement of the mallor ninth almost three minutes longer than someone. I mean, some people just squeeze the

hell out of the adagios and so forth. In my mind, what a conductor does only only based it on that, on that information and those numbers, on those downloads that you decide the pace that it's played, Is that correct? You? You play it your way. I think that tempo is the single most important attribute or characteristic of an interpreterpretation. Early on, there was no separate profession of conductor. Very often the composer would lead the performance, or maybe the

first violinist. The concertmaster would guide things along, but essentially, if a pulse was kept, people could play along. Jean Baptiste Lulli, the French composer, actually famously killed himself, supposedly, so the story goes, because what they did is not wave a stick in the air, but actually he beat a beat his staff on the floor and apparently he missed and impaled his foot with the staff and he contracted and he ended up. Yes, so it's a hazardous

profession even today. But back then I guess it could have been worse. But as music got more complicated, it became more useful and maybe even necessary for there to be an outside person who was not playing an instrument, could listen, who could listen and guide everybody. And the idea of a modern conductor with that kind of mythical status, this kind of mystical presence, who would shape the music

and come up with an interpretation. Um, you know, when it was the composer himself in the idea was to present the piece. But then when when you know, Mendelssohn started performing the music of Bach, and when list started doing other composers music, the idea was to come up

with a personal take, and and it became a thing. Um. And now obviously with some very complicated music, tricky meters and stuff, the idea of you know, just giving people an indication of where the is, for example, I mean, that's that would be really really hard for an orchestra to do. If not impossible without a conductor, and it becomes an esthetic even philosophical question, what an interpretation is? Um? I try to find the right tempo at every moment,

right tempo? What is the right tempo? You're you know, you're pointing out that there are many different ways you can do it, but something it's different for different people. It's different for different situations. Since there's a better way to play it, well, you have to find the tempo that's absolutely right for you, that is completely organic for your relationship with the piece. And that's what I do

when I study. I'm trying to digest the music to the point where if I open the score randomly to any page, I get an immediate and visceral kind of reaction to the notes I see on the page, and I have the sense that this is how they have to go. And then you have to sell it to them, and then well what happens is it's interesting when you know a piece that well, as you're conducting it, you don't have to consciously do anything. It comes out that way.

The gesture takes care of itself. Yeah, and that's what you were or in rehearsal. Do they ever say to you we would, I would like to play it another way. They don't do that. Sure, they do that absolutely, especially if there's a solo. And that's what makes it fun because the chemistry and the kind of give and take of you know, it's like a it's like a vessel with with two two chambers, and the kind of the

fluid can kind of shift back and forth. And the idea is sometimes you give you give over a little bit of the lead to the soloist who's playing a solo, and you react to it. But it's all together, and that solos will feel differently about the solo, even if they have their own interpretation, if you will, based on

your presence and your physicality. And so it's if you see, you know, great jazz combo playing like we just had Winton the other day and was so interesting to watch them play together because you can tell that even though

they're improvising, they're completely affecting each other. And when one person does something, they react to it and they emphasize a certain impulse or you know, clicking the beat, and then that intern inspires the one who made the first move, and it's this constant feedback loop that also happens with

music that's written down. I've done the same piece with two different orchestras in consecutive weeks, and although my interpretation hasn't dramatically changed, the way the piece ends up coming out is very different. Is everybody doing the exact same thing, but in their own way. Some of them seem to be ahead of the beat and some of them need

to be on the beat. Yeah, that's a very that's a very interesting observation because it's it's absolutely true with some conductors orchestras will tend to make a sound that's closer to where it seems as if the it's called the ixtus of their beat. That's sort of the click where the beat actually happens. There's there's either greater or lesser delay from that. It depends on the the quality of the gesture. And it's very hard to describe why

that works and how that works. It's also according to the orchestra, certain orchestras play closer to the beat than than than others. Like the Cleveland Orchestra, for example, tends to play closer to the visual you know, where the beat looks as if it is than the New York Philharmonic. A lot of European or German rictors just play even more behind the beat. And this is where it gets interesting because it's about tempo, it's about rhythm. It's also

about sound quality. If you imagine a sound that goes that's like right there, there's no delay, yeah, or if it's that you know that there's a kind of delay and it can't it can't possibly start edit such a determinate time. Um. I remember when I first played in the Philadelphia Orchestra. I was early. I came in my I made a sound before the other musicians because there

is more delay there. So I would see Ricardo Boud you give a gesture and you go boom, and I'll go boom right there, and everyone else would wait and the sound would would come out later and uh, after a while, I didn't have to make that that calculation and that adjustment. And it's different from the New York Film Institutional. Yeah, it's not a conscious thing. It's not that it's not like they talk about it. But it's the culture of sound. It's the tradition of of the

way they they collectively create rhythm and sound. I remember seeing Herbert from Cary on conduct the Vienna Philharmonic, and it was und I've never seen anything like this. How far ahead of the sound his beat was. It looked like he was almost in the next measure they were playing.

They were playing schubert Unfinished Symphony. He was beating along, and I swear I couldn't see any connection between Yeah, he was like, you know, he was already on the plane and they were still getting to the airport or something. It was so bizarre, but they played so beautifully. So an orchestra that has a kind of more precise way of making sound will tend not to play so far

behind the beat. Generally speaking, orchestras and France, which were very precise in the way they approach with them and maybe not quite as as voluptuous in the sound quality that they make essay for example, a German orchestra, they tend to play closer to the beat. And then when I first conducted the Philadelphia Orchestra, the first beats I conducted with the Philadelphia Orchestra, the sound came so much later than I expected. I almost fell off the stage

because it was such a shock. I gave a beat and they didn't play. And then what seemed like an eternity. Later the sound came back to me perfectly together. It was really bizarre. When you do this kind of work, you have to have this keen, almost mathematical aptitude just to fit all these scrabble tiles in your skull every day of all these notes. And when you talked about entrances, you know, I think to myself, what if there's more than one entrance, or what are the entrances all fall

on top of each other? Who gets picked? You know, they make their entrances whether you give them a or not, because you know they know where they are and they're counting you being an entrance for it's from multiple they know it's for all of it. It's not it's not to make sure that they play. It's to help them enter in the way that you want them to and with the spirit and with the character that you want.

But they don't. You don't need to look at them to play, and there's no way you don't always even even certain entrances from one concert to the next, you'll either give you'll give them a look or not. Um it's very comforting if a player is counting a lot of rest to get your eye, a couple of measures before and then confirmation that it's time for them to play at at A at A at the correct moment. Outgoing New York Philharmonic conductor Alan Gilbert, this is not

like Baldwin and you're listening to. Here's the thing, one of the living composers who's work Gilbert brought to New York audiences is that's a peck of Solmonon. The concert this spring where Gilbert conducted solon In's l A Variations is just one example of his difficult balancing act. Slonon is a great conductor in his own right too, currently at the Philharmonia or Orchestra in London. But on here's the thing. He told me he's frustrated that there's so

much more attention paid to conductors than two composers. I had a really kind of illuminating experience in l A some years ago. I was I was at Starbucks, actually queuing from a coffee, and there was a guy in front of me who asked whether I was so and so, and I said, yes, I am, and he said he

was also a composer. And he told me that he had written a couple of songs from Madonna and you know, these huge names and his name doesn't appear anywhere, and I thought, so, it's not only a classical music book on here more stories from my talk with that's a peka salon and had here's the thing dot Org. A few years ago, I collaborated with Alan Gilbert on a program where the Philharmonic performed famous film scores live to picture. It was exhilarating from me, but I worried it would

feel like just another concert for Gilbert. I needn't have. I had never done that, and that was that was so great. We were terrified to pitch that to you. By the way, well, I'm happy with the ones I chose to do. I mean, certainly the two. And then I mean, there's such great films, first of all, and the way music is used is so integral to the

whole artistic product. Two thousand mom was great. It was, I mean, and it was one of the hardest things that I've ever done, because essentially you have to coordinate because Kubrick was such a genius. I mean, it was no accident when certain moments in the film visually happened

in relation to the music. You know, when the spaceship shows up, you know, the boom, something has to happen there, and if you're not, if you don't hit that that mark mark exactly right, you you know, you're taking away from the from the impact and the value of the film.

So I really worked very hard. And whoever had prepared the score, maybe it worked for them, but they were there were time marks all through the score, but they weren't right actually, So I literally spent act going through and figuring out how how to mark my score, and

I tried to the best of my ability. I mean, I'm no professional in the world of cinema, but I tried to really identify which moments were crucial and which moments there was some play because you know, if if you know, if you have one moment where I say, you know, horn starts to play and that's where you know, the sun shows up or whatever, and the uh in in in the movie, Okay, you know you have to hit that. But then there may be you know, twenty

seconds in which is not so crucial. And that made it possible to figure out how to paste those say twenty seconds in order to end up at the right place without it feeling too metronomic. It's difficult. You want it to sound natural and you want it to sound as if it's your own interpretation. Um, but it also

has to fit with the film. And what I had to practice during the rehearsals was how to either make up time or give time back, because, um, you know, sometimes you're ahead, you know there are time marks, and you say, okay, I'm a little bit ahead, and the ones where it doesn't matter, then you know you have to slow it down. You can't just suddenly slow it down, because then it will sound like a discontinuity in the music.

You have to know, Okay, if I slow down this much, then I'll and by the time, you know, five measures later, then we'll be able to hit hit the next mark. And that sort of interaction is completely different from what we do usually. Because you know, something slows down a little bit in the concert, that's okay, that's what happened, and you don't have to try to make it up. You know, you're not trying to end the piece in the exact same amount of time that you did it

the night before. If it's a little slower the next night, no big deal. But that doesn't work with the movie You Can't End. Two minutes later in the movie right hit four of the big five orchestras in my development, I was really really lucky to see how these all wonderful orchestras were worked so differently from each other. And

then your first major appointment is in Sweden. Was in Sweden, I started working as a guest conductor um and uh Stockholm Royal Stockholm Filharmonic was looking for a chief conductor and I didn't even know it at the time, and I conducted the orchanal. They invited me back for a essentially a tryout week because I hadn't worked with There were a lot of regular musicians who didn't play my concert.

It was a summer concert, so people were on leave, and so they brought me back as soon as possible, which was earlier the next season, and I did a huge program. We did a done Juan of Strauss and Mozart, Obo Control and the writer Spring in fact, and uh, I guess that went well enough that they asked me to be their chief conductor. So I took out a position there and I was there for eight years and uh yeah, then landed in New York. Who contacts who

says to you, we'd like to talk to you. Um. There were conversations kind of um before I was invited to be music director about a completely different setup that was being imagined, involving another conductor who would have been the music director and and what what I would have been as some kind of principal conductor or some other

lesser title. But the idea was that there would be two of us, and and I would have conducted a lot of Was that a conductor that they talked about, somebody who liked it, admired and you would comolutely know we we we And it was It was a very exciting opportunity for me because I wasn't angling to become music director of the your flow. What happened, Um, well,

that fell apart. They couldn't afford that person. No, just let's leave it at it fell apart, um, And so then you know, I guess they went back to the drawing board. And sometime later they you know, they called zarn Mate called me up and who made that? It was a czarin who drove that? Who drove that? You know, I don't know the internal workings, They don't know one about it to tell you, well, I mean, did you

want to know. Essentially, the way it works is that a lot of people get together and there's a search committee that's made up of musicians and board members and administrators and sometimes some outside people. Um. I don't actually know exactly who was on the search committee that ended up choosing me, but obviously there was a critical mass of consensus that was your champion. Yeah, apparently, which I will always always appreciate and I'll never forget the the

phone call. And this is an absolutely true story. I was traveling in Japan with my family and I had at the time two young children. Um, it was eight years ago, so Estro was three. I think it was nine years ago, so he was even two, and knowing it was three year or something like that, and they had finally fallen asleep. We had had a torturous night, you know how it is with jet lag, just you know,

for for us, but for little kids it's impossible. And they had finally fallen asleep, and I got a call from Zarin Maytown just after they had fallen asleep, and he said, well, Alan, i'd you know, like to invite you to be our next music director. And I said, that's great, Sar but my kids just fell asleep. I can't talk to you now, and thought it was it was my mind, but my wife and I were so happy that they had fallen asleep, and and so I just you kno, hang up, and I said, guess what.

They just asked me to be music director. And we were like trying to contain ourselves. But yeah. Then I called him back and we had a scene in a movie where guys like, more than being the music director of the Philharmonic, I want my kids to go to sleep. Totally. Well, we all know the madness of that moment of that. How did you feel? You know, I had a sense that it was it was in the air, but I

absolutely didn't expect it, and you can't. You can hope for something like that, but you you know, it's ridiculous to expect it. Um. I was thrilled because obviously it's a great orchestra and it's my hometown orchestra. And to be able to work with them on a regulation home

as well, because both your parents. So when you arrive and you begin, whether you had any preconceptions or not, what reality sinks in once you have the job, you get the job, and you come and then what I have to say, I was pretty prepared, um because of my very close connection and knowledge of the orchestra over the years, and I pretty well, I mean I'm not just patting myself on the back about this, but I I called it pretty well what the trajectory of my

time at the Philharmonic would would be. I did to to Kisa eight years when when we started, it's turned out to be exactly eight years um. And I knew that there would be ups and downs and and some

some more challenging periods. Um. What was what was nice and and surprising in a good way was that some of the kind of call it out of the box initiatives that I started, we're really accepted by the orchestra and by the community around the orchestra, things like the Contact series and the the production of Grahama Cora that we did in my first season. I mean that was completely news. It was like nothing the orchestra had had

done or tried trying before. And that was really important for me to have a success with those things early on, because that gave me, that bought me time, that gave me cred um, and it made it possible to continue to try to do other things, not for people who don't understand this completely. What the orchestra plays. There's a committee that this, it's that, or you decided both. At the end of the day. You could sort of simplify the the equation and say that I decide. Theoretically, as

music director, I have the power to decide everything. Um. I don't think that would be a good way to go about it for a lot of reasons. It's too difficult to take, take too much time. Uh, it's too complicated because so many pieces have to fall into place. If you have guests and artists involved, and you almost always do, they have to be engaged. The contract has to be written, the schedule has to be organized. Guest factor and what they want to play absolutely guest conductors.

So when Yo Yo or somebody like that comes here, you don't say to them you're gonna play this. They tell you what they like to play. Well, it's not that simple. I mean, it's a conversation with someone like yo Yo, who's a good friend of mine. We'll talk about it and and I'll say, hey, would you think about you know, playing this piece? And He'll say, either, yes, for sure, I'd love to do that, or I'm not so interested in doing that, you know, would you consider this?

Or it's a give and take. Um, at the end of the day, you want people to be happy about what they're doing here. Different music directors function in different ways, though, I've guess conducted at certain orchestras where the music director will say, hey, do whatever you want, and so I'll suggest a program and if it works with their season, and if it's a piece that they haven't played too recently, they'll accept it. Other music directors will say, no, guest

conductor can do broms. I'm the only conductor who will do broms with the orchestra, for example, or all the Maller symphonies are just saved for me. And that's not it's not you that I've never operated that way. I think it's good for for the orchestra to experience music. Um, you know, similar music with different points of view. But just as I, just as I don't favor or classical repertoire,

equally I'm assuming you don't either. And is there a point where you're scripting and you're writing the program for the year that you sit there and say, man, I'm not really to feel that great about this, but something we should play. Absolutely, you're in the fortunate position as music director that you don't have to do anything you don't want to do. But but the way I've tried to program is to combine things in meaningful ways, to create fresh contexts for pieces to shine with the greatest

possible residence. And I happen to believe that UM showing connections, for example, between Beethoven and music that was written centuries later, can be illuminating. Another thing that I noticed, you know as a as a as a concert goer, is that there's times that the maestro yourself included obviously, is on the podium with no sheet music. And do do you conduct with no score because you just know it so well?

Is that what the difference? Yeah, I mean there's there's a lot of music that I can do without the score, and I in a way I would have to say I prefer to do music without the score. UM, but I don't feel compelled to do music without the score. There's there's some conductors who, maybe just because I can, or maybe because I think it's important, UM, insist on

doing everything without the score. It shouldn't matter just because you have the score there doesn't mean that you don't have to know it as well, but you have to know it in a different way. If you're going to conduct without the scores, you have to make sure you're not going to make mistakes and you really remember what's what's going on. Um. I'm lucky I'm able to learn pieces easily and conduct without the score. But I do so much music. Sometimes it's just more comfortable to have

the music there. Now I'll be there and I'll watch this music performed by whoever is conducting, whoever the ensembles, and it means that sometimes it crushes me, just overwhelms me. Does that happen to you? Do you ever perform music? And not that you have that kind of um plainly

visible reaction, but just sometimes does it just overwhelm you? Absolutely? Absolutely, I mean there are times when I really, I mean, I'm in the middle of um conducting Divorce, our New World Symphony, which we've all done how many good scenes sometimes and it's just such a fantastic piece. It's just so exciting and so natural and heartfelt and beautiful and so well written for the orchestraener saying, damn, this is

unbelievable that we get to do this. And then we did the symphonic dances from West Side Story by Bernstein, one of the greatest composition of the twentieth century, you know, and then in American Parents, as I said, these are three pieces that were premiered by the New York Philharmonic. How cool is that? I mean, how what Orkstra can

say that? It's just, you know, three iconic works, all brought to life by the New York Philharmonic, And here I am conducting the New York Philharmonic in those very three pieces. Now, music directors most nights of the year, it's very difficult to him this, this this last stretch leading up to you know, these last concerts that I'm doing in New York City have been crazy. They've been tributes, and I've been out just about every single night. And

you know, my kids understand what's going on. But you know, they say, very recently they said, you know, when are you not going to be going out? You know, are you going out again? And it's not only the nights, it's just everything else. There's so many things that go along with the responsibilities of being a music director. Meetings, planning, things, and and just like unlike least stuff, you know, decide you know, writing a letter to this person or or

or thanking this donor. I'm all really worthwhile things that obviously have to be done. Um. But with American Orchestra, the music director, Frankly has so much power that there's certain things that won't happen unless I weigh in on them. So it really gums up the works if I don't if I don't act on things. So there's a kind of constant drip of just little things that have to be taken care of. And I'm really not going to miss that. Um and then I'll but I'll be around.

I'm connecting the Juilliard Orchestra in a concert and sometime maybe January, and I'll be here just about every month, uh, teaching at Juilliard for a few days at a time. And uh, I mean I'm a New York, New Yorker at Hart and stuff, you know. I actually I am not happy about about the move. Nora's Kaisa. Kaisa has become more a New Yorker than I think I am. Actually, she's she's really taken to the city and loves it, and I think she'll miss it, maybe even more than

she realizes. People have written some very very kind things about you and your revolution in this job. Yeah, they had the smart one with the brilliant critics. Yeah, the only ones with with with dealing with women, and and they and all of them used the same kind of hot buns, grand macab and things you tried that they thought were very admiring of and your devotion to new music. And they said some very very kind things about you.

And when you leave here, what's your feeling like if you had just in a in a in a paragraph you look back on it and it was what to you? I think the orchestra is playing better than every I think they sound incredible. I think I can take some credit for that. And there's a kind of kind of attitude about the shared experience that the musicians have really cooperating and supporting each other and helping each other to sound as good as possible. A spirit of collegiality and

mutual support that is fresh. I didn't I don't think it was as strong before um and the willingness of the musicians to take risks and go outside of the usual box of what is asked of musicians has been incredible and really gratifying. I mean, the things that we've been doing that they do without batting an eye now would have been unthinkable. And not that that what was before was was bad or not, you know, or anemic in any way. You left the institution in better shape

artistically than when you found. It means a lot to hear you say that, Alec. I think what all arts organizations, orchestras for sure, but not just orchestras, need to do is to really think hard about what their purpose is and what we're trying to accomplish and what we stand for. And if you really believe strongly enough, then then you should find the courage to make it happen and take whatever risks are necessary because it is. It is about art,

and it is about the human condition. And these are very lofty things to say, but really that's why we do it. Alan Gilbert, the New York Philharmonic's groundbreaking former music director, I'm Alec Baldwin, and you're listening to here's the thing