A Fresh Look at the Death and Life of RFK

life and legacy. She dives into the controversy surrounding the trial of the man eventually convicted of Kennedy's murder, Sir Hans Sir Hahn, including witness tampering and destruction of evidence. And she went through hundreds of hours of a b C news footage that hadn't been seen since the sixties, conducted dozens of interviews with Kennedy's friends and associates, from

Marian Wright Edelman to Harry Bellafante. What emerges is a fresh portrait of a man destined to change the course of history, whether it's the problems of violence, whether it's a problem with justice, whether it's the problem that we haven't Vietnam. We can do things, we can accomplish things, we can make progress. Porter's previous work has racked up awards at Sundance and Emmy nomination and much more. Particularly impressive given how brief her filmmaking career has been so far.

She was a big shot corporate lawyer before she ever got the creative bug. You came to this work as a documentary filmmaker later in your life, I did. Was that an advantage a disadvantage of both? I think it was a big advantage. I was less romantic about it, and I used my background as a lawyer and all my contacts in entertainment. So I had worked for ABC News, I'd worked for A and E Television during your legal career, during my legal career, and you got to kind of

see the business side of film. So I spent a year, by my last year at any going to film conferences and documentary It's like a little Harry Potter world of documentary people. We all go around to different conferences and talk to each other. Um. So I went to a bunch of those conferences and I saw like what people were buying, what people were doing, state of the market, that kind of thing before I even had a film what So that would have been about two thousand, let's

see seven eight. Yeah, and it was a really interesting time in documentary. Yeah. We had like reality TV on television and uh, you know, the documentary film world was intense, but the market was opening up and more films were starting to get produced. Um. So you know, my background is my father was a photographer. UM worked in New

York City and kind of photography. He was commercial photographer, so he had UM I don't know if you ever been like all the way on the East Side and the fifties, there are those old carriage houses and that's where his studio between First and Second So it was way over like you know that kind of like East End area, And so when I was little that I'd spent a lot of time there, like literally the floor was cobblestones, tall ceilings, those big white doors. That's where

his studio was, and like film chemicals, you know. Um. So I had come from this kind of artsy family background. So I became a lawyer. Yeah, I was like, I want a real job. Arts what I did with my father's for fun like some people do sports. We used to make thirty five millimeter films. But it's interesting to me how you go to Swarthmore. You go to a you go to a great school, you go to a great law school, you go to Georgetown Law School. You are,

in mafia terms, a made guy. You're made, You're totally made, and you're gonna have a You're gonna have a legal career, and you proceed to get a book of matches and burn that to the ground going to that lucrative documentary filmmaking career of yours. But my point is, was there a moment when you turn around you go, I'm gonna go do that? What was the transition? Um? What it really was was during my time at ABC, my job network standards. What we did is we would read scripts

for long form investigative stories, UM. And we would also ABC News. You know, so if somebody's going to do a hidden camera reporter, which shows all of them, I mean for primarily but long form hour specials, UM, anything that was like complicated hidden hitting cameras. You know, Nightline was so buttoned up. We rarely had to not buttoned up, but they were really really really really really buttoned up. But so you know, the other piece of it was

sitting in edit rooms. I probably have watched thousands and thousands of hours of news stories, and when you watch a really good reporter and editor working a other, it's beautiful, Like they take something complicated and they make it comprehensible. And I was really impressed with that. In some ways, that's what lawyers do, right, We tell a story with a set of facts. We have to make something comprehensible.

So the skills matched up. Um. But then the problem was I was kind of at a high level at ABC, and I was like, nobody's going to hire me to produce anything because I don't know how to do anything. But um, it's like Bob Iger saying he wants to go run to the Caribbean. That's right. Were you also compelled from the working to look at a lot of

footage and a lot of programs out of footage. So we would watch, you know, the producers would put together a whole rough cut of something, and sometimes I would watch the raw tape and watch the interview because, as you know, you can cut things and make them look a certain way. And I always like, really appreciated that, appreciated watching how this long interview got cut down or something.

And our job was to make sure that it was fair, that it accurately represented and I took it really seriously, you know, like like being a journalist and coming to giving people their best shot. Like that's what I learned in that job is if you give people their best shot, even if you disagree with them, they will respect you if if they know that you didn't try and manipulate and make them look a certain way to make the present. Yeah,

let them make their case. Let me ask you this though, that as a young woman and you're in college and so with Swarthmore, and so what was film? And what was documentary film? And you're a you're a fan. Were you consuming some of stuff? Are you kidding? I'm at Swarthmore, I'm like dressed in black, and you know, I didn't smoke, but I might as well, you know, fake smoked like

a candy cigarette. I was more interested in in political theory under political science and philosophy, so other very marketable skills, you know. I was obsessed with ancient political theory. I thought I was going to teach fire. You're just number one with a bullet um. I and I really the only reason I didn't go to graduate schools because I learned that you would have to read, write, and translate, not just Latin, but ancient Latin. And I thought, I

don't really actually want to do that. Um, But like I just I was like, say, this has to stop somewhere. But you know, I had like this really formative mentor, um, great teachers who really loved diving into materials and into stories. I've never been as good a writer as when I was in college, you know, like we just were writing all the time. Um. And I had, in particular, an English professor who was a big fan of Laurie Anderson

and so he would constantly like play her music. This isn't this is what you're paying for when you go to college. Um. Not a lot of film going, not a lot. He would bring a lot of film into so I took. But it wasn't a major then. It wasn't like it wasn't on my radar screen is like that could be a job. You know. The documentary film, as you well know, has become, for lack of a better word, so much more popularized than it was ten

years ago. It has you know when I started, and it was roughly ten years ago, um, you know started really focusing getting interested. Um. You know that coincided with reality television. Quote unquote reality. Um. And then as reality became less real, and also as things got faster and quick cuts, and yet yea yeada. I think people actually

like sinking into a story. And that's what good documentaries do, they don't, you know, They let you spend some time um with a subject, and they also let you It goes back to my ABC time at least like for me, I feel like what I love to do is is bring as as much of the story you know, to an audience and let them enter it where they will and judge it how they will, you know, instead of like hitting people over the head with something like let them enter a subject and think about it for a

little while. So was there a moment when you what's the moment when you said I'm gonna do this'n make a film? Um? I mean part of it was meeting I met these young public defenders. Um. When I was in law school, I did clinics to represent victims of domestic violence, and my husband he did the criminal defense clinic. So I was like, your clients are beating up my clients, they should stay locked up forever. Very unswarthed wory. And then I got introduced to these public defender people, and

I went to there. They have this training session in Alabama, so they were like, do you want to come see our training session? So I said, sure, I want to go to Alabama in July. But I get down there. You know a lot of lawyers are not necessarily happy people. They're not happy in their jobs, right. And I get down there and these young kids in their twenties, the representing people accused of terrible times, and they make no

money and they're happy as can be. They cannot wait to get to work, and I kind of got teary, and I thought like, this is kind of what it's supposed to be like when you go to law school. You think you're going to help the people. So I just got curious about them. So that was I was like, you know, I think as a lawyer, I can help translate some of the legal stuff. So at that moment, I was like, this should be something. So my first

film is called Gideon's Army. Um it's on HBO. I didn't know that it was going to be a future film or short or whatever, but it should be something. Who do you go to? Sheila? And we had her on the show too. Yes, Yes, Sheila Evans for our listeners, who's the head of HBO documentaries? Were you? Were you in pitching to her? Eventually, so I got one of the best producers in documentary, Julie Goldman, and Julie had worked with HBO a lot, and she said we should

go to Sheila. So I'm like, great, we should go to Sheila. So we went to show her some footage and the first thing she says is it's not very cinematic, is it. It was like, Hi, nice to meet you. But you know, Sheila really is a genius. And she said your film is all heart, and she just kept pushing us to find the heart of the subject. Don't make this a news story. Make it about the people and what people go through. And so, you know, HBO bought it before we had a rough cut and then

it goes to Sundance. That's your first film. What did you What did you learn from making your first film? Like when it was over, did you say to yourself, Oh god, you watched the movie and say, oh God, I wish I had done this. I mean, I'm assuming it's a learning experience. Oh yeah, Oh my goodness. It's so what did you get right? And what got by you. One thing I learned is you tend to fall in love with your characters, and um, you have to be not so romantic you you really have to actually be

true to the story. I learned that I can't fix everything I want to fix. We interviewed this kid and he was a kid who was sixteen. Um, he was in jail. There was no evidence against this kid, like nothing at all, but the prosecutor wouldn't drop the charges for like nine months. He misses all that time in high school. He's an adult jail because he's sixteen. So finally the prosecutor says, I will drop the charges. But in order to get out, he has to post bail,

which was three thousand dollars. And he's all excited because he's going to get out of jail. And we're filming this and the lawyer calls his mother and says, he just has to post this bond and we'll get out, and she says. There's a long pause, and she says, how much is it? Three thousand dollars? And there's another long pause and his mother says, I don't have it.

And you see, like the public defender who had moved mountains to get this kid out, which she shouldn't have had to do because there was no evidence against him. And you know, we hang up the phone and she's just kind of devastated it. So later on we're leaving and I said, you know what, I'm going to bail him out, Like I just can't. I'm like, throw it up, sick. Here this this child who was like doing great in school and guilty of abc legal money you have right.

So so having quit my job reduced my family's income by half, I'm now going to bail out everybody. And she said to me, if you're going to make this movie, you can't do that. And I just felt like the lowest of the low, you know. Um, but you know, things are hard, things are and you know, you asked what I had learned from my first film. Um, Documentaries should also entertain and be engaging as a film. It should stand together as a film. It's not a commercial,

it's not a news piece. Um. So there's a story arc that has to emerge. It's a it's a very yeah, and documentary is very collaborative. I don't edit, I don't shoot, I don't do anything useful, So you have to work with people who are really good. I had a great editor, Matthew Hammachuk, who has worked with Matt Hyneman um. So

he did City of Ghosts. And I think the thing that came from sitting in edit rooms for so long was like pacing, you know, is so important, and the audience is way ahead of you, right, and being respectful of your audience, you know, like you got to move on. The audience is way ahead of you. There, let's put it this way. And I learned this enough from doing

thirty Rock with Tina Fee. I had this line. I'd say we would do the scenes, and I said, you're like a jockey, and you give the horse to stick all the way to the end, like we drive this scene and don't take any unearned pauses, and our audiences with us unearned pauses. I think that that's like really no earned bass. And then and you're going and you say, those people that don't keep up with us, who cares

about them to begin with? But but in the films you've made, you talk about the kind of altruistic work that a lot of lawyers at least. I wonder if this feel all making wound up being your chance to do the work you didn't get to do as a lawyer. That is perceptive and right. It's kind of like if I were a braver person, and actually my kid because you know, kids never miss an opportunity to don't. So my older son said, well, if you really wanted to

make change, you'd be a public defender. And I was like, oh man, you know, um, but it's kind of right. But you also have to know yourself. Two boys, how old are they? Eli is sixteen and will is fourteen? Teenage boys. I have two teenage boys. And now you're in San Francisco. Yes, because your husband got googled Google. We're all Googled and we have drunk the kool aid. We love the Google. Now you spent much time out there? Is it a city that you were kind of disposed

towards living there? I didn't spent any time and literally we landed. And you know, it's one good thing about the documentary community people, I kind of I had a Bonnie Cohen and John Shank who um just made the al Gore film um or some friends. So Bonnie corralled some of her girlfriends and they helped me find schools. One of them help me get an apartment very difficult, which is very very difficult. Um, you know, it's it's actually very creative place and very open. They're kind of relaxed.

You know. It was good for like New Yorker me, who you know when we were first out there, Um, you know, I got a team getting people together, and then uh, you know, people started packing up at five thirty and I'm like, is it a half a day? Like where is everyone going? Um? But it's kind of good for us New Yorker people to slow down a little bit, you know, although I do admit, like when I get here, I'm like, like, people walk quickly. They

ordered their coffee quickly. My favorite expression of that was I think it was in The New Yorker they did an article the Study of Americans versus their European counterparts, and the article was about predam and they said that in European cities, the preda mange customer was willing to take the pre prepared sandwich with limited options and have more time to eat the sandwich. They and they said in New York it was the situation was the opposite.

New Yorkers want exactly what they want and they want to completely customize the sandwich and fast they're going to shove it in their mouth. But anyway, now in the first movie, you tank that career and your and your husband's still with you, right yeah, and the kids stayed along to the next movie is next movies called Spies in Mississippi and it was in the fifties. The state of Mississippi established a domestic spy agency and the sole purpose was to undermine the CP and stop civil rights.

So it was this archive base was it was a lot more traditional. Um it was. It was hard to get I got the first money from Germany, you know, like the Germans were like, we like despise, so um, you know they never met a spy. We don't understand what this. Um. It was funny though, because you know they did a co production with a German company and this is where like being a lawyer and understanding the

business worked. Like I knew there was money in Germany, so I was like, I can do this faster if I go to Germany first and rather than trapes and around and in New York like trying to sell this. But they did the color correct and like all the black people came back really black, and I was like, you know what, we're different colors. There's like we're all we're all different. Um. So I did so spies went to PBS. UM. After that, I did some I did a short for Alex Gibney. Um beautiful. Um. This was

like one of my favorite projects ever. So he hired I think it's ten different directors and said, pick a story from the New Yorker and go make a be

about it. So I picked the story by Catherine Boo Uh, you know, one of my great great authors, and she had written this story Swamp Nurse, and it was about women who would go work with underage pregnant teens and so they would work with the pregnant teen but also stay with them for two years and basically teach them how to be mothers and make sure that these girls had health care and you know didn't repeat a cycle of poverty and um. So this is deep Texas, like

like you know, not Austin. I mean, like you know, the nurse I followed was an evangelical. I loved this woman. Um. And you know, making documentaries is also really um it's a good way to get out of our bubble. You know, like you see people who live without plumbing. Um, and you know who are face challenges whatever face right? And who are are still like great mother and resilient and happy people and um, but you know things are hard

and you know a lot of these just so. Then my third film was about abortion providers in the South. As my mother said, another comedy, what drives me is what these people are. They're really brilliant and smart and creative and they could do anything. And what is making them day after day returned to these incredibly difficult situations. Um. And then like Zach, curiosity that drives you? Where was

that set? So? Dr Parker was in Mississippi where there's one abortion clinic left, and that's what kind of piqued my interest. Um. And Parker's a man. What was his background? Faith was how So that's the other thing I'm curious about people. I always want to find it regardless of their background. I've always wanted to see a program which you wanted these doctors sit down and discuss what it's

like for them to perform that procedure. He is very religious, grew up, you know, kind of this side of evangelical thought he was going to be a minister. Um didn't do abortions for the first like ten or twelve years of his career. And then he did a post doc fellowship and he saw all these women who were dying from you know, trying to self induce and didn't have medical care. And he says, he's like, I think Jesus would want me to provide healthcare. You know, like, isn't

that what we're supposed to do? You know, the articles about him are like the ministry of Dr Willie Parker. He refuses to seed religious ground to people who are opposed to abortion, and you know, he can quote you

every Bible passage about it. But you know, when you get into abortion films, it's not like public defenders, Like nobody cares about public offenders abortions they care about so like I made the mistake of showing a small clip like at a festival because I was I was trying to raise money for the for the movie, and um, this like anti choice group like put my picture up

on a website. Documentary filmmaker Dawn Porter, if you haven't heard my interview with the woman who gave Porter her big break with Porter's film, Gideon's Army goes straight to our archive at here's the thing dot org. Sheila Evans is a delight. Everybody says, let's do an anti Trump film. Okay, I must get five pitches a day about let's do this, Let's do who voted, Let's do the Democrats who voted,

Let's do the women the college graduated. Every day, there's something here more at here's the thing dot org coming up, Dawn Porter and I go deep into the weeds of the RFK conspiracy. I'm Alec Baldwin, and this is here's the thing. I wanted to spend a good amount of time not talking about your current project, because I know I'm like, Netflix is gonna fire me, no, no, no,

but meaning we could just talk about that. And I always have the concern that we made the conversation not about you, but about him, and you pitched it to them when they commissioned you. How did that happen? Um, Laura Michael Chison, who's worked with Robert Redford, produced for him. I went to her and I was like, Laura, I think this is a Somebody had approached me about the fact that Sir hanster Hand was still in jail and alive and his lawyers were trying to mount one last

effort to get him out. And I was like, that's interesting. But I think in order to understand how sensational that trial was and that time was, you gotta understand Bobby Kennedy, you gotta understand his life. You know. The other thing was Um and my Fami, Bobby Kennedy, John Kennedy. They're really important to black people. Like black people love the Kennedy brothers. You know, my grandmother's a picture. They eventually loved the Kennedy brothers. By the time I came around,

they were beloved right early days maybe not so much. Absolutely, there was there was not necessarily the guardians of the civil rights that they became. It wasn't I think it wasn't there top of mine. It was a process. And so that's kind of what hooked me is is what was that process? How did you know a guy who he wasn't he wasn't a segregationist, he was an anti civil rights, but it really wasn't a priority, right, And and how does he go from that to breaking the

fast with Caesar Chavez and working with dolors. We're done, Um, getting King out of jail. And you know, so I was like there's a complicated story there. So we then approach Netflix and said we thought it was a series, um and they kind of got it, you know, pretty quickly. There's just nothing that's more aching and more painful than the idea of what would this country be if both of them, or even Robert Kennedy had lived I've lived. That ache is even deeper because they were kind of

this new light in the country. They convinced the country to try something new and to go in a new direction. And having sold them on you know, we can come together as a country. We can stop the word Vietnam. We can there is a way to racial reconciliation. Having sold at least half of the country on that premise, then Kennedy's killed. You know, you look back and you think we got Nixon, We got you know, law and

order written large. There was a guy who did a film that's on the Internet called Evidence of Revision the Right, so Terry Raymond Evidence of Revision. The first three r JFK and RFK. Then the fourth is King, and the fifth is that Jonestown was an MK ultra breathing ground. I didn't get to Jon Jonestown and it was was it was an mk ultra breeding ground where they were breeding the next Sir Hans Hans was a Manchurian style. Yeah, there's a whole bunch of people who believe that there's

like a you know, the run school. There's a lot of evidence that he did not act alone. There's questions. We cover that in the fourth episode. Um, what do you say about that? You know? Um, so I hired an investigative reporter and I said, you know what, you go at this clean, you just like read everything. Her name's Lauren Capps and her background, Um, she's like a Berkeley journalism you know, never met like a police report.

She didn't want to read, you know that kind of She came back with what there's there's a lot of evidence, So she went to like the old police reports, you know, she went to the l A Archives. Um, you know, so a lot of evidence not there in the l A Archives because they destroyed it. They destroyed a bunch out of the wood trimming and the bullet holes holes all gone, um, and they said they couldn't afford to store it. Yeah, it was really Um, it's not satisfying explanation,

you know. And it's Darryl Gates um like criminal justice system. So um. So Lauren went and she wrote this like exhaustive treatise and watched every film and you know, I think the unfortunately, what we were certainly able to conclusively determine is Sir hanser Hand had a terrible defense that his lawyers didn't question any of the ballistics, they didn't run down any of the alternative theories. So um, you know, I think what that does is it allows an opening.

People don't feel satisfied by that verdict. When they look closely at what happened, you get like all kinds of conspiracy theories, and you know, you don't get a satisfactory answer. Um, there's real questions. You know. The coroner in the in the case said Nagucci said that Kennedy was shot at a matter of inches. There's no witness that puts Sir hanser Hand a number of inches. Nagucci. He's not put on by the defense, he's not cross examined by the defense.

One of the most integral parts of the case the angle of the gun, the mastoid in the back of Kennedy said, and Sir Ham was more to the front and to the right of him. I mean, I've I've read all this stuff. He's not put on by the defense, He's not cross examined by the defense, like the defense stipulated to Sir Hans guilt. So you know what kind of defense lawyer stipulates to guilt in the most infamous murder.

You know, the whole country is watching for this this quote unquote trial, and that does not give you confidence in our justice system. If you see that happening, I can't prove there's a second gunman or you know that's not my cross debay it. You hear you hear audio tapes, you've heard this of the detective brow beating the woman that was the eyewitness of the cocon at dress situation, and you hear him like, I mean, you've never Yeah, we interviewed her, Yeah yeah, and she's film she has.

She says the same thing today. I mean we literally put it side by side. I found her incredibly compelling. She was one of the first witnesses. Yeah, she was one of the first witnesses. There was no reason whatsoever for this young girl to make anything up. She said, people came down the steps, they said we shot him. I said, who did you shoot? She said, we shot Senator Kennedy. It was a girl and it was a guy who was Mexican American, and she's very very upset.

And if you go through, you know, so Lauren like my, you know, Nancy Drew girl detective goes through and she's like, she's incredibly consistent, and you know, it also turns out that there's like funny stuff happening with the bullets. They do this like crazy like doctored test. This. This gentleman in our film, Paul Shrade, who is now ninety two. He was a labor advisor to Kennedy. UM, and Paul was shot that day. He was the other a person who was grievously injured, shot in the head. And he's

a James Brady. He kind of believes that Sirhan isn't the person. But the you know, the bigger thing is none of this is brought out of the trial. None of this, so the jury doesn't even consider that there's a possible alternate conclusion. So it's like, that's not what Bobby would want. So, you know, um, the focus of our film is Bobby Kennedy's life and legacy. But I felt like we couldn't ignore this huge gaping question. Um, you know, and it feels it's very unsatisfied because it

feels like it will not be solved. And you know, to your point earlier about Americans hate not to have an answer, did it make you just so sad to think about where we are now? It was excruciating. Netflix. Um so we so what I really wanted to do was use archive material as much as possible. So we literally were living with footage, and from like a news nerd perspective, it was it was kind of dreamy because what we did is we digitized hundreds of hours of

film footage. So the networks at that time that's expensive. By the way, it is expensive all the docs I've worked as a consultants, they just die on paying for that time. I have to say, like Netflix, this is where they were a really, really great partner because I knew from my time at ABC that there was all this film on digitized film, like in cans in the

ABC archive. So I thought, you know, I said, you know, listen, if we go with specific asks for like time periods, ABC was just an upstart network trying to make its mark. What do you do you follow the like sexy good looking, charismatic candidate. ABC was the most recent. So they're following Kennedy and shooting him. But what what also that that did is you know, we had to watch it all, so it was like living in that time and living with Kennedy. And what you see what emerges is um

over time. Particularly you know, he doesn't start out that way, but once he digs in, he brings the same zeal that he brought to prosecuting a mob bosses. He brings that same passion and zeal and energy to fighting poverty and to saying like, we can do better than this. You believed he cared. There's no other conclusion that that he's doing his best. And you know, and then you also see and I don't think this came into such stark reality until Trump came into office, but we sincerely

believe he does not care. And you know, it's like literally the first time, like you know, I'm like, certainly not a reaganade or a bush ad or you know, but um, I I did think although I might disagree with the way they implement policy, I did believe that they cared. You know, that that was their version of things. And you literally see Bobby Kennedy saying to people, not only do does he care, but you must care, Like that's what makes us human people and that's what is

going to ultimately bring us together. That's right, and people sign on for that, they believe that, And I think that that's partly why you know, it's such a hard, hard turn when he's executed and where the country ends up. Um, you know, it's such a like a blow to people. Members of the family. Did you talk to? So I

didn't interview them. You know, I'm friends with Rory, you know, I'd like talked to Rory about it, and I thought, I don't think Ethel's gonna do it like the people I would Yeah, the people I would like to talk to. I'd like to talk to Ethel because really what we wanted to understand where um, you know, like him as a person, um, what kind of what he was going through. But I thought, like, you know, I feel like we

should just make the archive interviews speak for themselves. And then what I did is have people who worked with Kennedy or for Kennedy. Um, so there's like firsthand kind of people who were there, and you know that's different than having it be your father right, So, UM, I think that there's a certain amount of distance that is is a little healthier there. Ums. No one speaks better to who Kennedy was than Kennedy himself. Just stick him

out there, pretty much done, you know that. The other thing is um, I think that that that's you know, like you can't get enough of actually watching like Bobby and Jack together with Ethel with their kids. The other thing is, um, it's painful. It is still excruciatingly painful, um for all of them. And I thought, you can't get enough of actually watching like Bobby and Jack together with Ethel with their kids. The other thing is, um, it's painful. It is still excruciatingly painful, um for all

of them. And I thought, like I don't even want to drag them through that. Um. You know this is gonna be a hard year, like for all of us. He's a public figure, he's historic figure, you know. UM. I mean, I hope Rory doesn't mind me saying that, but she's like, I can't watch all these things. And then when when you watch the footage, like as a mother, it was hard, Like he's so physical with his kids, he was such a present, active father. You could see

how close this family was. You know, he brought his kids everywhere. These were not kids who were lined up like sound of music and supposed to be seen not heard. They were just like in it. There's the footage of carry Um during like the crisis running out. You know, she's yeah, She's just do you want to say hi to carry? You know It's like no, no, I don't want to say hi to carry right now. There's like

a whole army outside. But there was this blending of family and seeing that, I thought, just just what a huge loss. Dawn Porter. She advocated for ABC and A and E. Now she advocates for the powerless through storytelling. It's a good time to be a filmmaker. I picked a good time. I'm Alec Baldwin and this is here's the thing.