Hell and Gone Murder Line: Thomas Hayden

super randomly. Basically, he stopped to pick up a piece of trash and he was going to throw it into the back of his truck when he picked up this white plastic food Saber grocery store bag. The bag was sealed, it was heavy, and it had a weird kind of liquidity consistency. At first, he said he thought it might be a dead animal, but then he saw the blood and what looked like long, gray human hair and skin.

He called the police, and the Northern York County Regional Police Department were the ones who initially responded, but they soon realized they needed additional support, so they sent the scalp to the Pennsylvania State Crime Lab for forensic analysis. The lab confirmed that this was human. They ran the DNA and they could not find a match to anyone in their system, So the human skin and hair became a John Doe case officially. Unofficially, detectives called it the

food saber bagcase. So that bag and that strip of skin remained in the crime lab and that's where it stayed until five years later. This would lead detectives to a sixty seven year old, diminutive grandmother who looked like a sweet little lady, but who was guilty of pathological lies, a horrific murder, and who some people believe could even be a black widow potential serial killer. I'm Catherine Townsend.

Over the past five years of making my true crime podcast, Helen Gone, I've learned that there is no such thing as a small town where murder never happens. I have received hundreds of messages from people all around the country asking for help with an unsolved murder that's affected them, their families, and their communities.

even have a head. Meanwhile, across the country, a woman named Kim Villa had not heard from her father, Thomas HAYDENR. In a long time. She told The York Daily Records. She and her dad were not super close, so it wasn't unusual for them not to talk for a while, but it had been years. At this point. Kim had not really talked to her father since two thousand and five.

She was wondering what to do now. I bring this up because inevitably some people will say, well, she hadn't really talked to her dad in years, How does that happen? How did she not know something was wrong? Unfortunately, in this situation, I've seen it over and over in families. Someone might not realize their loved one is missing for months or sometimes years, and there are reasons why this happens.

Kim said. The reason this happened in her case is because Thomas's wife, his second wife, Virginia, who he had married in nineteen ninety eight, was telling Kim that Thomas was there, that he was sitting right there, but that he just didn't want to talk to Kim because of things that had happened in the past. Kim had believed Virginia for a long time. Kim told the newspaper Tom was not a perfect man. It seemed like Tom had

had a pretty rough childhood. She said that her own childhood had involved physical and verbal abuse at times from her father. Thomas was originally from Maryland. He married Kim's mom his first wife, when he was young. They were married for twenty years. He worked several different jobs, so the family moved around the country a lot. They eventually settled in Gonzales, Louisiana, for a while he worked as

a police officer, Then the family moved to Virginia. At some point, Thomas was working for the Postal Service and on that job, he got injured. After that, he was eligible to receive Social Security disability. By the mid nineties, Thomas had divorced his first wife after twenty five of marriage, and he was ready to date again. So he got a friend to help him get online and try chatting to women. That's how he met Virginia Fogel. They ended up meeting in real life and they started dating. Thomas

and Virginia married in nineteen ninety eight. Now this part is interesting because multiple media sources say neither of their families neither Thomas's or Virginia's knew about the wedding until afterwards, which, let's be honest, is never a great sign. Kim told the newspaper she didn't like her stepmom. She did not trust Virginia. She was suspicious of her pretty much from the start. She felt that she was kind of insincere.

I know this is something I've said before many times, but it is very difficult to be in that position, the position of being suspicious of someone that a family member is dating, because sometimes in those situations when you try to warn the family member, people do tend to shoot the messenger. I've been there myself, and it could be really difficult to walk that fine line between telling someone the truth, telling them the information you feel they

should know, and not alienating them. I don't really have any great advice to give about these situations, by the way, I just want to let people out there know it does happen, and actually I've been there myself. Virginia was born in nineteen fifty one. It seemed like from what The York Daily Record said, her own family said that she was kind of a pathological liar growing up. Her children said they never really knew their mom. They never really knew what was going on. Virginia had some weird

stories about her background. For example, she said her biological mother traded her to someone else. Another couple things like that. The children basically never knew what was true and what wasn't true, which meant that when Virginia did tell crazy stories, even if sometimes they were true, people tended not to believe her. This will become important later. Long story short, Virginia's own children did not know much about her, or about really their own family background. A lot of it

was a mystery. After Thomas disappeared, Kim, his daughter, and the rest of her family found out something else. They found out that their dad was not Virginia's first husband, or even her second husband, like many of them had assumed. Thomas was Virginia's third husband. Virginia had been married twice before, and both of her husbands had died very suddenly. Virginia's first husband, I say first, but with the caveat that it's the first that we know about. Knowing her proclivities,

I would question everything as far as we know. Virginia's first husband was a man named Edward Claba. He was a janitor at Sykesville Middle School in Maryland. Virginia and Edward were super young when they got together. When they married, Virginia was still high school age. They divorced in nineteen seventy three. Virginia's daughter Carolyn told The York Daily Record they split up because Virginia was having an affair, and

then tragedy struck. Virginia's ex husband was found hanging in the school gym on November twenty first, nineteen seventy four, less than a year after they were divorced. It was determined that he had taken his own life. Virginia then married her second husband, Floyd Fogel, shortly after that, also in nineteen seventy four, Virginia was about twenty three. By then, Floyd was a lot older, and they had a little bit of a scandal to start with. Apparently, Virginia was

the babysitter for Floyd Fogel. They started to have a sexual affair, she got pregnant, and eventually they got married. They had a daughter together named Connie. Virginia was very close to Connie, and Virginia and Floyd were married for about sixteen years until nineteen ninety that's when Floyd died of a massive heart attack. That would mean when Floyd died, Virginia was thirty nine, still young and looking for love again. As we said before, she married Thomas eight years later

in nineteen ninety eight. She was forty seven. Thomas was five years younger. Virginia and Thomas sold their properties. They bought an RV together, and it was hard for his family to keep track of him because Virginia and Thomas crossed the country. They moved around a lot. Again, in these cases, the family dynamic can be very tricky. Some family members had their own issues with Thomas, and they didn't realize that the rest of the family was not

able to locate him. The last time that Kim spoke to her father was in two thousand and five, and then for the next couple of years, as we said before, she didn't speak to him at all. She would call, Virginia would answer, and Virginia would always have an excuse for why Thomas couldn't come to the phone. Kim blamed herself since she had had a minor argument with her dad the last time they spoke. It seems like Virginia kind of used that as a reason why her dad

apparently didn't want to talk to her. Kim got frustrated with this. She started asking Virginia basically for proof of life. She wanted Virginia to send her a photo of her father. She said she wanted this even if he wasn't up to talking to her. She wanted to know he was okay, but Virginia refused. Then Virginia told her Thomas didn't want to have anything to do with her at all. She said Thomas had called Kim a greedy little bitch. This blew Kim away because she had never known her father

to talk about her like that. Later, Virginia told her her father hated her, hated the rest of the family, and didn't want to see any of them. Kim was growing more and more concerned. She wanted to know what happened to her father, and Kim started to figure out it wasn't just her. Her brothers had not talked to her dad either. Then Thomas's brother passed away and twenty fourteen, Thomas did not even come to the funeral. After that, pretty much the whole family knew that something was very wrong.

So then one day Kim told the newspaper she got a call out of the blue. It was Carolyn, one of Virginia's other daughters. Carolyn asked Kim if she had talked to Thomas recently. Kim said no, and Carolyn said she was worried about Thomas, who was her stepfather. She said she had not spoken to him since the fall of twenty eleven. She had been close to Thomas. Carolyn said she was surprised that her stepfather never showed up to her Christmas party that year, and then she never

saw him again. So now Kim has gone from being concerned about her dad to having the terrifying feeling that her dad was gone and never coming back. What happened to Thomas? How could he just disappear so suddenly? And how did Virginia explain that to everyone? It turned out that it depended on who you asked. She told some people that Thomas was in Mexico taking care of some mystery medical condition. She told other people that he had als.

When Carolyn asked her mother about Thomas, Virginia said Thomas was gone, but that he left a note for Carolyn. Carolyn looked at the note that Thomas had supposedly left behind, and she noticed it didn't seem to make a lot of sense. First of all, it started out Dearest Carolyn, which Carolyn said was not the way that Thomas talked. It felt very unnatural. The language was way too flowery, and the letters said that he was never coming back.

So she was probably asking herself if that was how he felt, why he didn't just tell her, or at least text her or call her and tell her that she knew something was up. So that's when Carolyn called Kim. Carolyn and Kim joined forces. They were determined to figure out what really happened to Thomas. In twenty sixteen, Kim hired a private investigator, The investigators started surveillance on Virginia. By this time, Virginia had moved into her own apartment.

The PI interviewed neighbors and people who interacted with Virginia on a regular basis. Even though she was a pretty private person, on occasion, she did like to talk about herself. When people asked if Thomas was gone and what happened to him, she told them that Thomas was in Mexico. Again. She told some people that he had als or lou Garry's disease. Apparently, she also told some people that Thomas

was dead or some combination of those three excuses. None of the stories matched, but no one figured that out for a long time. The PI told Kim that Virginia was telling people that Thomas had left her suddenly sometime in twenty eleven. On January twenty first, twenty seventeen, Kim called the Pennsylvania State Police to perform a welfare check on her father. They went to the apartment and talked to Virginia. She told them that her husband had left

her in twenty eleven. She said he had gone to get medical treatment in Mexico and that he never came back. They asked her well, how did he leave the house without a vehicle. She said that his brother, Spencer, had picked him up. But police found Spencer, they talked to him, he said this was absolutely not true. He never picked his brother up. He never took him to Mexico or anywhere else. Police were obviously very suspicious, but they needed

more evidence. Now, I do want to call out the really good work of the police department, because in so many of these cases, people call me literally almost every week with a story about how a family member has disappeared unexpectedly. They believe someone's lying about it, but often police do not investigate further. In this case, the police did. They really took the time to build a case and put the pieces together. They followed the paper trail on

the house. They found out that on November fourth, twenty thirteen, Thomas Hayden had sold his share of the condo he owned to his wife for one dollar. That transaction happens a lot between husbands and wives, so that part is not necessarily a red flag. But the next part to police absolutely was. Because they looked at the person who would notarized this transaction. They found out this signature was Connie Pender Virginia's daughter. Police later pulled in a handwriting expert.

The expert's opinion was that Virginia Hayden had signed Thomas's name to that document, according to the criminal complaint. The next year, Virginia sold the condominium to someone else. The buyer paid one hundred and thirty five thousand dollars. Police tracked down the guy who had bought the condominium from Virginia. He said when he bought the place, he bought it

basically as is. He said a bunch of furniture and other stuff was included as part of the sale, but he said he noticed that when he moved in, a couple of tho items were missing, including a queen size bed and a large rubber mat that had been in the garage on the floor. They asked him if Virginia had mentioned her husband. The buyer said Virginia told him

her husband was dead. But when police asked Virginia about this, about these conflicting stories, she always had an excuse, and by now she was telling everybody Thomas had been abusive. She said Thomas had been so abusive to her that he was dead to her, and that's why she was telling people he was dead. So after Kim made the missing person's report and the welfare check happened, the information was shared with the Northern York County Regional Police, and

a detective there remembered the food Saber case. They pulled up Thomas's driver's license. When they saw him, and they saw his long gray hair, they wondered if he might be the person they'd been trying to id from that case. Forensic testing indicated that Thomas's DNA was a match to the scalp they found in the food Saver bag. Those remains had been sitting there for six years. Finally, Thomas's family knew what happened to him. Detectives believed they knew

what happened to Thomas too. They absolutely believed Virginia had killed him. Detectives had a lot of circumstantial evidence here. They also have stories that don't match, and, as we have seen on so many cases, stories that don't match our huge potential red flags. But Virginia was a good liar. She had an excuse for that. She said she made stories up because she was embarrassed about the fact that Thomas left her. She told other people that he had

been so abusive. She was trying to forget so even though they caught her in lies, it was difficult to prove they still didn't have a body. In July twenty seventeen, police interviewed Virginia. She told them a bunch of different stories. First, she said she was embarrassed about Thomas leaving her. That's why she said that he went to Mexico. Then suddenly she said she actually had seen Thomas since he disappeared. She said she saw him in Puerto Rico while she

was visiting there in twenty fourteen or twenty fifteen. She said Thomas was abusive. He was physically abusive. She was terrified of him. She said that's why she hadn't said anything, because she had been so scared when she saw him again. Police knew by this point she was full of it. There was no evidence that Thomas was ever abusive to her. Finally, they took a picture of the scalp in the plastic bag and they showed it to her, But detectives noted

she didn't really have any reaction to that. In fact, she didn't have much of a reaction to anything. She seemed totally emotionally flat. So while all this is going on, police are trying to find people who can shed some light on Virginia's real character. They did find one person who she was close to, her grandson, Mike Harris. Police talked to Michael and he said he and his grandma would joke all the time about the best ways to

get rid of a body. He said that Virginia used to joke about how feeding a body to pigs with the perfect disposal method, because apparently pigs would eat everything except the hair and not leave behind any traces. Her grandson said they would watch true crime shows together. He described her as cool. He said she also told him if you wanted to get rid of a body in a body of water, you had to stab it multiple times to make sure that it would sink. Side note.

This part was especially freaky to me and I'm sure to many true crime fans because real talk. I make these kind of jokes all the time. My mom and I watch true crime shows together. It's always been our thing. So the idea that someone would joke about this not because the humor deflects some of the dark thoughts or the horror of what is happening, but because she did

this for real is absolutely terrifying. It's like Patrick Bateman from American Psycho in the body of this innocent looking grandma. Police tried to figure out if Virginia had had a grain of truth in those comments. They did find out that shortly after Thomas vanished, Virginia did some housework. She did some home improvements. One of those was pouring down some concrete for a new patio in the backyard. This is crazy and dark as well. She and her son

in law Michael, actually joked about that patio. She made a comment about how there could be a body down there. They could be hiding a body. Police searched that area with ground penetrating radar and dogs, but in the end they found nothing. Luckily, according to police, Virginia did something that helped them. This always amazes me when this happens, but it happens a lot. There are a lot of narcissistic people in the world, and a lot of people

who are narcissistic and who lie. It's like, even when they should be quiet, they keep talking. I think it's because they're so convinced they can lie convincingly. They've been able to deceive so many people for so long that they just think that they're going to continue their story is going to be believable. They can't see how ridiculous their own story is. If you're lucky, they will keep talking and sometimes they will shoot themselves in the foot.

And that seems to be kind of what happened here. Remember, the detectives were following the money they found out about the condo, and then because remember Thomas was receiving Social Security payments, they found over one hundred and sixteen thousand dollars had been deposited in the joint account Thomas shared with Virginia. Virginia continued to take that money after Thomas

was gone. Sometimes if investigators can't get someone from murder right away, they will start with fraud because the federal government will get their money. But the criminal investigation continued. They executed US search warrant on Virginia's home. They found a lock box with all of Thomas's stuff in it, including his driver's license and his passport, which, by the way, he would have needed for foreign travel to Mexico or anywhere else. It was right there. His Social Security card

was there. This is something that it seems like he never would have left home. Without Also, why, even if he was planning on leaving, and especially if he planned on getting medical treatment, would he ever stop taking his money. That idea is absolutely ridiculous. It makes zero sense. They checked records. They found that Thomas's passport had never been used, so there was no evidence he ever went to Mexico or anywhere outside the US. He also had not accessed

his bank account or any money since he disappeared. They were also checking out other elements of Virginia's story. They tried to verify the information that she had given them about Thomas's illnesses. They went through his medical records. They found no evidence at all of any serious illness or terminal illness, no evidence that he ever, at any point was diagnosed with als. They did find, though, that Thomas regularly saw his doctors. His last doctor's appointment in person

was on September twenty seventh, twenty eleven. He was supposed to see the doctor again on October twenty fifth, but Virginia canceled that appointment. She told the doctor her husband had left town. They found out that Virginia had bought a gun. Records showed that she had bought a three fifty seven caliber handgun on October second, twenty eleven. She claimed she sold it to a private party. Police never got the weapon. They found something else that I thought

was interesting. They found Virginia's day planner in her house. Next to November one, twenty eleven, Virginia wrote Tom had left for Mexico. Some investigators wondered if that might have been code for something else. And all through this process Virginia acted like she didn't care. She was actually very lackadaisical. At one point she said she would write whatever they wanted her to write. Later, she said she would admit to whatever people in her family wanted her to say.

She sounded like she could not care less. She said, quote, I put Thomas Hayden in there, so be happy. I give in, so leave me alone. So there it is. That's my confession. End quote. PennLive dot Com reported Virginia had a food saver vacuum ceiling machine at home, which could have explained why the bag was sealed. Even though she was outwardly somewhat cooperative, though Virginia continued to taunt investigators.

In another weird twist, Virginia told police if they wanted to find Thomas they should look in her second husband's grave, remember he had died of a heart attack. They did, but they found nothing there. They charged Virginia in connection with Thomas's death. They also charged her with sixty four additional counts, including forgery, conspiracy, theft, receiving stolen property, and

tampering with public records. This was related to her allegedly forging Thomas's signature on that property transfer and to her stealing the almost one hundred and seventeen thousand dollars of Social Security payments. They were able to prove Virginia's daughter, Connie, had been in on this. In twenty seventeen, they charged Connie with two counts of tampering with public records and two counts of conspiracy. Still, though they had no body, they needed to figure out how Thomas had been killed.

They needed to piece together a story for the potential jury. They interviewed a forensic pathologist, doctor Wayne k Ross. The pathologist examined that food saver bag. They found there were tiny sprays of blood there, so the pathologists concluded Thomas probably had been killed by gunshop. There were bone fragments in the bag that were also characteristic of gunshot wounds, there were traces of lead in one of the bone fragments. All of this pointed to being shot in the head.

Police believed that Virginia probably went up to Thomas while he was lying in bed, maybe even asleep, and killed him. Doctor Wayne k Ross said during a hearing, quote, the task of dismemberment supports the conclusion that Thomas Hayden died of violent death at the hands of another individual. End quote,

and this part is horrifying. The pathologists could not say for sure whether Thomas was dead or alive when he was scalped, but they pointed out if Thomas was alive, that would have been a fatal wound and he would have died shortly afterward. The pathologists believed that after Thomas was dead, his killer had dissolved the body in some kind of caustic substance, and that the only thing left

was what invests stigators found in that bag. On April eighteenth, twenty nineteen, Virginia was arrested and charged with Thomas's murder. She was ready to go to trial in twenty twenty two, but hours before the trial was supposed to start, Thomas's family got word Virginia took a plea deal. Originally she was being charged with first degree murder. She ended up pleading guilty to third degree murder. Her sentence was six to twenty years in prison. Now, there were some mixed

opinions about this plea deal. I can see both sides. On the one hand, some people were totally outraged. They felt like this woman clearly murdered Thomas in a brutal way and covered it up for years. I can see that outrage, but I can also see the prosecutor's point of view. You have a situation where there's limited forensic evidence tying Virginia to Thomas. Also, I really don't want to overlook the fact the prosecutors were probably thinking about the fact that Virginia was going to show up in

court looking like everyone's grandma. All it would take was one juror to believe her story or even have questions about her guilt for Virginia to get an acquittle. The prosecution probably did not want to take that chance. They knew this woman is a liar. Over the years, she's gotten away with murder, and some people believe she might have gotten away with it, possibly more than once. I'm

going to go back to something here. We were talking about Virginia's grandson, Michael, some of the things that he said, some of the comments.

not sure about that. If I were investigators, if I had any questions about how Virginia's second husband died, I would be looking through that autopsy report finding out if he was taking any nitro medication, which is the comment that Virginia made to her grandson. I would be looking for any irregularities. Virginia's daughter, Connie, pleaded guilty to tampering with public records and conspiracy for her role in notarizing

that forged deed. All she got was two years probation, and as shocking as it sounds, Virginia may not be incarcerated for that long. She's in her early seventies now, she's doing her time in Muncie, and she will be eligible for parole in a couple of years. I'm bringing this up for a couple reasons. Number one, I feel so sad for Kim and for other members of her family.

I cannot imagine how tragic it would be to have to deal with not just the fact that your father has been murdered under these horrific circumstances, then you also have to deal with the reality of knowing that this woman has lied to you for years, she kept you from your father. So not only did Kim have to lose her father, she had to live with six years of thinking that her father was mad at her, that he might hate her, that he didn't want.

General's Office for the Middle District of Pennsylvania. The maximum penalty for those charges would have been a total of two hundred and forty years in prison. That's also mind blowing to me, by the way that someone can get a six to twenty year sentence for murdering and scalping someone and face two hundred and forty years for financial fraud.

But that's the world we live in. In the end, Virginia took a pleading for that as well, and she was sentenced to just eighteen months on those charges to run concurrently with the other charges she's incarcerated for. Based on Virginia's past and the things she's been convicted of, she may have done her time when she comes out, but in my opinion, the public is at risk. I believe she's never shown any sign of remorse, and she is still fairly young. She may be in her seventies,

but my mom is about her age. She looks and acts super young. It's important to remember, even though she might be a grandmother, you can't assume just because someone has gray hair and a sweet little smile that they are not up to something evil. I am not ruling out the possibility there may be other bodies and other victims out there. The most terrifying part is this woman has murdered and scalped someone and we still might not know all of the secret she's hiding. There could be

more victims out there. To this date, Amas's body has never been found. I'm Catherine Townsend. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Helen Gone Murder Line is a production of School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts. It's written and narrated by me Catherine Townsend and produced by Gabby Watts and Miranda Hawkins. Special thanks to Amy Tubbs for her research assistance. Music contributed by Ben Sale. Miranda Hawkins mixed and scored

this episode. Executive producers are Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and Else Crowley. Listen to Helen Gone ad free by subscribing to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel on Apple Podcasts. You can follow the show on Instagram at Hell and Gone pod. If you have a case she'd like me and my team to look into, you can reach out to us at our Helen Gone Murder Line at six seven eight seven four four six ' one four five. That's six seven eight seven four four six ' one four five. School of Humans