School of Humans on November thirtieth, nineteen sixty three, just eight days after President John F. Kennedy was assassinated in Dallas, Texas. Across the country, in Los Angeles, friends of a twenty three year old actress named Karen Kupsine were getting concerned. Mark Goddard and his wife Marcia had not heard from Karen since Wednesday, November twenty seventh, the night before Thanksgiving. On that night, Karen came to dinner at their house
on Coldwater Canyon Drive in Beverly Hills. Karen had been depressed lately. Her relationship with her actor boyfriend Andrew Prine was more off again than on again, and on top of that, she was dealing with all the pressures of trying to make it on her own in Hollywood. She was supposed to get to their house to eat at six thirty, but arrived an hour late. She got there at seven thirty. When she did get to their house,
she was acting strangely. They later told police. She barely touched her food and was acting like she was under the influence. Marcia told police that Karen's quote lips seemed numb, her voice was funny, she moved her head at odd angles end quote. Karen didn't eat much that night, but she told Mark and Marcia a very strange story. She said there had been a baby left on her doorstep earlier that day. She said she had to call the police and that they came and took the baby away.
Karen seemed pretty distraught by this, and Mark and Marcia weren't quite sure what was going on with her, but they knew that she had been having a lot of issues lately. Karen was always worried about her weight, she had been addicted to diet pills, and she'd been dealing with the loss of this relationship. They put her in a taxi at eight thirty pm that night. Marcia asked Karen to call when she got home, but Karen never did. They didn't hear from her. They weren't overly concerned at first.
They figured she probably went home and got so much needed sleep. But by the thirtieth and this is the way that Mark Goddard talked about it on the E Hollywood story that was done later about this case. He said they were going through their morning routine, he was shaving. He and Marcia started to chat and they said, you know,
we're concerned. We haven't heard from Karen in a couple days, so by that evening they decided to take a drive to Karen's apartment in West Hollywood, located at twelve twenty seven and a half North Sweetsir Avenue. Mark Goddard told the show they drove up and parked. He said he went to the door alone and saw that it was open and started to get kind of a funny feeling, so he went back to the car and asked Marcia to come inside with him. The door is unlocked, so
they opened it and walked into Karen's living room. It was dark. They saw her lying on the couch, face down, with the TV playing at low volume. There was a glass container that had spilled a lot of cigarettes out onto the floor. Marcia approached Karen. Karen was naked, and at first Marcia thought maybe she was just passed out, but when she touched her and rolled Karen over, she could see immediately Karen had been dead for quite some time.
They started screaming for help, and pretty soon Karen's West Hollywood apartment was a crime scene. At first, everyone thought Karen must have died from an accidental overdose or maybe even taken her own life. They found Karen's diary entries, some of which were seriously disturbing, but the autopsy concluded this had been a homicide, that Karen had been strangled. Cause of death was manual strangulation. Manner of death homicide.
What happened after hours in that West Hollywood apartment. I lived in Los Angeles for several years near where Karen lived, and this is one of those old Hollywood cases that has always fascinated me. It has so many elements. There's a broken relationship, stalking, Hollywood glamour, and even a suggested
connection to the assassination of JFK. But really, after you get through the conspiracy theories and all of the Hollywood stuff, at heart, it's really a story about a young woman, a young woman who went out to Hollywood in search of her dreams, and this was how it ended. I'm Catherine Townsend. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Over the past five years of making my true crime podcast, Helen Gone, I have learned that there is no such thing as
a small town where murder never happens. I have received hundreds of messages from people all around the country asking for help with an unsolved murder that's affected them, their families, and their communities. If you have a case you'd like me and my team to look into, you can reach out to us at our Helen Gone Murder line at six seven eight seven four four six ' one four five. That's six seven eight seven four four six one four five.
This is Helen Gone Line. After Mark and his wife found Karen's body, the police came to the address in West Hollywood and started processing the crime scene. They called Karen's parents immediately. They knew this would be big news because Karen's parents were power or Karen cupson It was born and raised in Chicago. She grew up there, the
daughter of Essi and IRV Cupsonate. Her father, Irv was a legendary gossip columnist for the Chicago Sun Times and Again for people who grew up later and might not realize this, gossip columns had so much power. Back in the day. There was no social media, no influencers. Hollywood figures still had a lot of mystery, so one of the only ways to get access to them was by reading about them in the gossip columns. IRV Cupsonate was
known as a friendly columnist. Celebrities and their publicists loved IRV because he could get their clients a lot of favorable coverage, favorable mentions, and what they called back then, a lot of columnages, meaning a lot of press. For those of you out there who do read those columns, IRV reminds me a little bit of columnists like Liz Smith in New York City who wrote for The Post. IRV was old school. He had lots of access to
old Hollywood celebrities loved him. People like Joan Crawford and Don Rickles would come for dinner parties in their Chicago apartment. So Karen grew up in this environment, seeing all the glamour of Hollywood. This job gave IRV access to a lot of Chicago's elite, including reportedly some people who had connections to the Mob, which we'll get into a little bit later. So Karen decided at a very young age
that she wanted to be an actress. Really, what she meant was she wanted to be a star, and Karen was talented. Her mom Essie, encouraged her to act and pushed her to do commercials and school plays. At the age of thirteen, Karen got a role as understudy to the lead actress in a play called Anniversary Waltz. Karen moved to New York in nineteen fifty nine and tried to get some roles on Broadway, but it was hard.
She was nineteen. She was auditioning a lot, and she wrote in her diary later that she felt like because of her last name, producers were just humoring her and being polite. She felt like she wasn't getting there, she wasn't achieving her dreams on her own merit, and that really depressed her, and that's when she started to develop this obsession with her way. She developed a pretty serious
eating disorder. And back then, I don't want to sound cold, but there was just not as much information around as there is now. According to a lot of people at the time, if you wanted to be skinny and work and be an actress, that was just kind of the cost of doing business. You had to be skinny. So when there were things like diet pill abuse, a lot of casting directors and even friends and family tended to look the other way. Karen gave herself a stage name,
Lynn Rogers, but eventually she went back to Cups. In it, she became Karen cupson it, and Karen finally got a break. Jerry Lee Lewis gave her a part in his movie The Ladies Man. Karen moved to Los Angeles, but she found that Hollywood was even more difficult than Broadway. Now, one of the things I'm always interested in when I
look into a case like this. Obviously, it's been covered a lot before, and I've talked a lot about how shows like Dateline tend to just give the synopsis of the case when there's a lot more going on behind the scenes. It's the same with the e Hollywood story on this case. In my opinion, the show was pretty thorough.
It had interviews with Andrew Prine and with Karen's parents, But I started thinking to myself, I bet you in exchange for that cooperation, this is going to be a pretty sanitized and edited version of what happened to Karen, which, from what I read later, it was Karen did have some support in Hollywood. She was living with her grandmother,
but she was not happy with her looks. She got plastic surgery on her chin and later had a nose job, and sometimes she would get a boost, like when one of Elizabeth Taylor's ex husband's Eddie Fisher, told her she was pretty. She wrote in her diary that she was just thrilled. Finally she felt pretty, but her emotional state seemed to be completely ruled by what men thought of
her looks. Karen was getting parts in TV series, but she kept taking more and more pills, so many, according to her mother, she kept them hidden in a laundry hamper. Her friends back this up. They said if she gained even one or two pounds, she would start taking more and more diet pills. Back then, these pills were basically like speed and they were very addictive. Karen kept diaries
of her weight. She yo yoed from around one hundred and seventeen to just over one hundred and thirty pounds, still very small for her height, which was around five six and the fact that this made her feel so ugly is what makes these diary entries so heartbreaking. Nineteen sixty three was a year of pretty big change for Karen. She had been working on a TV show when it was canceled. Her grandmother found out about the pills she'd
been taking and moved out. Now Karen was on her own, she moved into her own place, the apartment on North Sweetzer. She got a theater role. She was playing Annie Sullivan in The Miracle Worker, the Helen Keller story in a local theater, and she got a bit part on the TV series Perry Mason. She also started dating a twenty
seven year old actor named Andrew Prine. He was handsome and at first she was totally smitten, but from what her friend said, as well as her diary entries, it soon became very clear she was way more into the relationship than he was. She wanted to be exclusive, she was in love with him. He made it very clear that for him she was just an option. He was dating other women. He was very much a ladies man and he didn't want to change. This made Karen very distraught.
When he would date other women. She would really obsess over it. She would go to the same parties he was at and watch him with these women and then just get extremely upset, and it would send her into this downward spiral. In summer of nineteen sixty three, she got pregnant with Andrew's baby. Mark Goddard and his wife ended up taking Karen down to Tijuana, Mexico to get
an illegal abortion. This was very traumatic for Karen. Afterwards, she wrote in her diary that Andrew was nice to her, gave her soup, took care of her, but then pretty soon he was back to his old ways. He was going out with other women. Back to the crime scene. Now, naturally, as police are looking around, they are finding out about this history with Andrew. They want to talk to Andrew, but there are signs there may have been other people
in Karen's apartment as well. According to the medical examiner, Karen had been dead for a couple of days, probably since a late Wednesday night or early Thursday morning. This was also backed up by the fact that Mark and Marsha found newspapers and magazines that had built up outside Karen's door. In the living room, police noticed a coke closet door was open in the northeast corner of the living room. Drawers in the bedroom were open, things were thrown around. It was a mess in there. The bed
covers were rumpled and twin beds were shoved together. Outside the bedroom, there was a pair of women's shoes and a teddy bear. Karen's red bathroom was on an overstuffed chair on the east side of the living room. There was a lot of expensive stuff in the closet, including Karen's mink s dole. None of it had been touched, so the motive did not appear to be robbery. There was also a coffee pot on the floor. Things were really thrown around in the living room and in the bedroom.
The only neat area was the bathroom. They found a lot of prescription drugs, according to the police report. They found thirteen bottles of pills, including Desoxen, a diet pill, and there were a lot of them. They also found something called Milltown, which apparently she mentioned to Mark and marshas she had taken the night she had dinner with them. Now, I had never heard of Milltown, but actually it has
an interesting history. It's a tranquilizer that became a big drug in Hollywood because it relaxed you without knocking you out. It was a relaxer rather than a sedative. According to a report by the CBC, by nineteen fifty six, one in twenty Americans had tried Milltown drugs like took over later and Milltown kind of faded away. They found something else, three coffee cups and an empty cake box with a serving knife on top of it, so it looked like
Karen had been entertaining shortly before she died. So who was she having coffee with so much later? And this story is one of those that's a little bit stranger than fiction, and it is a real Hollywood story. The author James Elroy actually became involved in the case. He started working with Karen's niece. He wrote about the case in his book which was published in the late nineties called Crime Wave. And in that book, James Elroy pointed out detectives found a book open in Karen's living room.
It was open to a page that talked about dancing in the nude and how that helped you lose your inhibitions. Now, according to James Elroy, even early in the investigation, some of the detectives weren't completely convinced this was a murder. They thought she might have had some kind of accident. The con Harold Cade, who did the examination and who stated the manner of death was manual strangulation, based that largely on the fact that Karen's hyoid bone was broken.
But there were some limitations to the forensics, especially back then, her face was too decomposed to see if there were any other signs of trauma, and apparently they did not test for the prescription drugs that were in Karen's system to see how much was there. On the other hand, if this had been some kind of attempted suicide, there
wasn't an obvious pill that would have caused that. Most of the pills from her Milltown prescription were still in the bottle, and the diet pills she was taking she had an extreme tolerance to that drug. She had been taking it for a while. The headlines read stranger killed actress on coast. They found Karen's diary in that living room. Later. Karen's niece would share portions of this diary with James Elroy. The entries are heartbreaking. Karen wrote, quote, I'm not good.
I'm really not that pretty. My figure's fat and will never be the way my mother wants it. I won't let it be what she wants. How stupid I want to be slim? Why must I be so alone? Have I fallen that short of my ideal? Why does my image of me have to be so esthetic and perfect? What's the use of living with nothing to believe? To have faith in? Where's the security or habit or order. What good is that going to do? My Andy? What happens to me or my Andy? Why doesn't he want me?
End quote now. Of course police wanted to talk to Andrew Prine. He and Karen had obviously had a volatile relationship. Andrews said the last time he saw Karen was the weekend before she died. He said that they had gone with some friends to Palm Springs and had a good time. The last time he saw her was when he dropped her off after they got back to la He said that he did talk to Karen on Wednesday night, the night she had dinner with a god Dards. He said
they talked on the phone at about six pm. That he had taken an actress on a date after that to see the movie a street car named Desire. He said he dropped his date off and went home. Then. Andrews said he called Karen sometime between around eleven thirty and midnight. At that time, Andrews said Karen told him the same story she told the Goddards, the weird story about the baby. She said police had come and taken the baby away. Police were later able to confirm that
this story was not true. It was something that Karen had made up. There was no baby, there was no report of a baby. It was just something that she invented and no one really knows why. Police also tracked down the two men who said they were the ones who had been at Karen's house having coffee and cake that night. They were a twenty two year old freelance writer named Edward Stephen Rubin and another actor friend of Karen's,
Robert Hathaway. So the story Edward Ruben told police was that he walked to Karen's house and got there at around eight thirty. This would have been when she was just getting home from the Goddards. He said they hung out for a while and talked, and eventually Karen got kind of antsy, so around nine thirty pm she went out for a short walk. While she was out, she ran into Robert Hathaway and brought him back up to
the apartment. At that point, Edward said all three of them had cake and coffee, which would explain the cups and serving knife and the empty cake plate. Edward said that at some point Karen fell asleep on the couch while watching TV. He said eventually she got up and went into her bedroom. He said he followed her back there and watched her get into bed. Then he said he went back in the living room. He and Robert kept talking and at around eleven to fifteen pm, after
the Danny Kay show, they left. Now, they both told police that after they left, they made sure the door was locked behind them. Another strange part of the story is that all three of these guys, Edward, Robert, and Andrew Prine knew each other. Andrew Prine had been these guys next door neighbor in Beverly Hills, and he still lived right next to Edward Ruben. So they said after they got home, Andrew Prime came over and they all hung out and talked until pretty late after three am.
Apparently this wasn't uncommon because at the time, they told police, Andrew came over and hung out a lot. Police asked both of them about their relationship with Karen. They said they never hit on Karen, never hooked up with Karen, they were just friends. Now, there were some contradictions in these guys statements because Edward Reuben's story was different from what Andrew told police. Remember, Andrew had told police that he took an actress on a date on Wednesday night,
and then he said he went straight home and called Karen. Meanwhile, Edward Rubin says Andrew came over to his house. He said he'd talked to him till late at night, and he also said Andrew had told him he went to the rodeo that night and stopped by another bar. So when police confronted Edward Rubin about this, he said he might have had his dates wrong. It might have been and Tuesday night when Andrew came over to talk to them. Andrew confirmed this. He said it had been Tuesday when
he went over to spend time with those guys. And police also contacted the actress whom Andrew had taken out on Wednesday, and she backed up his story as well. So now the police were kind of stuck. They had a few inconsistencies in these guys' stories, but they did seem to have alibis and there was no clear motive. Police also figured out Karen did have a criminal record. She had been arrested for shoplifting at one point and
got probation and fines. The police were also canvassing nearby buildings. No one had heard any screams or anything else. That was out of the ordinary. Then they talked to Karen's downstairs neighbor, a guy named David Lang. Now this is where things get a little strange, because a woman told police that David Lange had told her that on Friday, which would have been November twenty ninth, the day before Karen's body was discovered, he went up to her apartment
after midnight. He said, he turned the door knob and the door was unlocked, but he didn't go in. David, who was a twenty seven year old TV writer, apparently had a little bit of a reputation around the building. Some people said he would get drunk and show up in other people's apartments uninvited, so when police heard about this, they definitely wanted to talk more to David. This same person told police that David had called her and told
her that he killed Karen. But when police talked to David, he claimed he had been just kidding about that comment because there was so much press around the case. He made a joke, he said about being some kind of a strangler. He said he had no issue with Karen and that he did not knock on the door on Friday night. Police talked to him again. He admitted he did try Karen's door on that night at around twelve
thirty am, but he said he never went in. I have a couple questions here because if these two guys, Edward and Robert are telling the truth, if they locked the door when they left and then lay David tried the door and it was unlocked, and we know it was unlocked by the time Mark and Marsha got there. Did someone else try the door and then Karen let them in? There was no sign a forest entry. Could one of those guys be lying about the door being locked?
Did they remember it wrong? Or did Karen let someone else in that night? Police asked David Lang about his alibi on the night Karen was killed. Of course, again this is a Hollywood story. David Lang actually had dinner at Natalie Wood's house that night. He said that he went home, smoked some pot, and woke up late the next morning. David's light detector test had been inconclusive, but that wasn't proof, and police didn't really have any physical
evidence to work with. They were looking at possible motives. Could this have been a lover's quarrel between Andrew Prine and Karen. They talked to Andrew Prine's ex girlfriends, who all said he was a really sweet guy, and he told police he had nothing against Karen. He wasn't upset with her. He was hoping to stay friends with with her, maybe friends with benefits. Why would he kill her? Police asked him if he knew of anyone who had a problem with Karen, and he said yes. He said someone
had been stalking him and stalking Karen. He showed the police letters he had received. Someone was sending him crazy messages. They were cut in paste from different magazines. They looked like ransom letters, and the sender wrote things like want your hot body, the devil must kill you. Other messages were saying that Andrew was going to die. They were scary, they were threatening. And Andrew said he also got a lot of hang up calls. He said he and Karen
had been terrified of whoever was sending these letters. Police found some of the cut and paste letters in Karen's living room, similar to the ones Andrew described. They took them in for forensic testing, and when they dusted for Prince, they found fingerprints. All of them were Karen's, which meant that Karen had been the one sending the letters to herself and to Andrew. The whole stalking thing had been a lie. Andrew Prine's mind was blown when he found
out there was no mysterious stalker. Karen had been stalking herself and him. There was more evidence of this in Karen's diary. She wrote that a few weeks before she was found dead, she hid in the bushes at Andrew's house and even crawled in through a window and spent hours crouched in the dark in his attic. It's worth mentioning here. I know that she was having mental issues, and I sympathize, but if this were reversed, I feel like the police may have taken this a lot more seriously.
This must have been terrifying, and there is no excuse for it. I can't imagine anything scarier than going home and someone hiding in my attic. But Karen was young and hurting and vulnerable. It's so sad to me, by the way that in all of these La noir style articles about her, it's all about her being a nude body found on a sofa. It's almost like she's some kind of movie and not a person. As much as I love James Elroy's fiction, it's a little tough for
me to listen to his podcast on this case. For that reason, nothing happened on Karen's case for months, then years it went cold. Detectives were suspicious about certain elements of Andrew Prine and David Lang stories, but there was no physical evidence and no proof. Then three years later, something strange happened. Edward Ruben called police and said he wanted to revise his statement. Suddenly he was remembering a
lot more details, supposedly. Now, I don't know how likely it is that you suddenly remember events three years later that you couldn't remember a couple of days after the murder, but that's what happened. He told police that he and Robert Hathaway had gone to a bar called the rain Check Room on Santa Monica Boulevard after they left Karen's. He said Robert had left by himself, and afterwards Edward had met two women. He said the two women drove him home and he kind of hit on one of them.
She turned him down. He couldn't remember their names. Detectives could not find the women, and so they couldn't really verify this story. Police called Robert Hathaway to ask him about Edward Ruben's revised statement, and he said that was not true. They never went to that bar, they never met two women. So again police have conflicting statements, but no way to check some of these details, and again
it seemed like another dead end. After working on the case with Karen's niece, James Elroy developed his own theory. He said that he believed that book, the one that had been open at the crime scene to the page about nude dancing, was potentially crucial. His theory was that Karen was on a lot of pills, dancing naked and somehow fell and hit her head in a weird way, either on a chair or a coffee table, and broke her hyoid bone. Then somehow crawled back up on the
sofa and that's how she died. That it wasn't really murdered. He also proposed the possibility that the coroner, Harold kid might have made a mistake. James Elroy claimed that the coroner had a bad reputation. He believed that Harold Kay could have broken the hyoid bone accidentally himself and not admitted to it. Police did ask the coroner about this a few years later, in nineteen sixty six. At the time,
Harold Cade stuck to his story. He said the hyoid bone was broken at the scene, and he also pointed to some other evidence. On the autopsy report, there was hemorrhaging in Karen's throat that seemed to back up his theory of strangulation. It's just a guess, but in my opinion, James Elroy's theory of her dancing and breaking her hyoid bone,
it's possible, but in my opinion, not likely. And I don't think she intentionally committed suicide because yes, there were disturbing entries in Karen's diary, but there was no clear suicide note. She had been making those entries for months. And also, the main reason I don't think she intentionally took her own life is because this was a woman who had a lot of self loathing about her body. So in my opinion, there is no way she would have ever taken her own life and allowed herself to
be found naked. Over the years, a lot of people had theories about who killed Karen, some a little wilder than others. In nineteen sixty seven, a book came out by a researcher named Pan Jones. He said the Associated Press had had a wire story about a woman who called two minutes before JFK was assassinated. This caller apparently was in Oxnard, California, that's around an hour and a half's drive from LA and said the president was going
to be shot. So Penn Jones claimed that Karen's father, IRV knew Jack Ruby, the man who killed JFK's assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald, and IRV knew about the assassination, that he told his daughter Karen about it, and that she wanted to warn the president. Basically, this researcher said Karen's death was a mob hit. This has been floating around on web slus and other boards for years and there's just no evidence of this. First of all, Karen was
with her friends in Palm Springs. She never said anything about any danger to the president. Much later, the Ventura County Star did its own investigation after some of the FBI documents were declassified. They found that the operators gave a description of the caller's voice, apparently it did not match Karen's, and that these operators believed that this caller was mentally disturbed. Also, Karen did not drive, She took
cabs everywhere. How did she get to Oxnart. It's really far fetched and in my opinion, just a red herring that takes away from the investigation. In nineteen eighty eight, IRV Cupsonate published a memoir. He revealed he and his wife Essie, believed Andrew Prine did not kill Karen. RV seemed to be more focused on David Lane. IRV Cupsonate died in two thousand and two, and his funeral was a big deal. Hollywood star and the Mayor of Chicago attended.
His wife, Essie, had died a couple years earlier. It was clear that one of Irv's biggest regrets was that his daughter Karen's murder had never been solved. He really believed the police did not take the investigation seriously enough. Andrew Prine went on to act in other films. He has also passed away. David Lang seemed to kind of fall off the radar for a while. He did work on the movie Clute and a couple of other movies. According to his IMDb page. He died in two thousand
and six. Some people have wondered by the way, if Robert Hathaway was in the apartment at all that night, because when police dusted for fingerprints, they only found Edward Ruben's fingerprints. So I wonder, is it possible that only Edward Ruben was there, and that Robert Hathaway his friend, gave him an alibi for that night so he wouldn't get in trouble. But if that's true, why were there
three cups of coffee out? It's weird that their stories didn't match, And I wonder why police didn't push all of these guys a lot harder. I keep coming back to a couple of details, the unlocked door and that red bathrobe which Mark and Marsha Goddard said looked like it had been removed and kind of thrown on the chair. Now again, Edward and Robert could be lying about locking
that door behind them. But if they're telling the truth, and if David is telling the truth about the door being unlocked when he twisted the knob, the evidence points to Karen being in a super depressed state, watching TV or maybe in bed, and then someone knocking on the door and her going to open that door. Maybe she threw the robe on the chair because she thought it was Andy showing up. They had just talked on the phone. Maybe she opened the door and it was someone else,
someone she didn't expect. Karen Cupson. It's case is still officially open, and a lot of people ask me why I would cover this. Almost everyone related to this case has passed away. But I wanted to cover this case because there's still one person in this whose name we don't have, and that is the actress who supposedly went out with Andrew Prine on that Wednesday night. If she is still around, I would love to find her because
I think she could help answer some questions. And to me, every time I hear about this case, I hear the same thing. I hear, this is a Hollywood story, it's a cautionary tale. To me, it's much more universal, Karen Cupson, It was much more than West Hollywood case file number Z nine six one sixty five to one. This was a young woman with hopes and dreams. She was living alone for the first time in her life. She loved
a guy who didn't really love her back. I really believe if she'd had some time, she probably would have gotten her shit together. She might have made it in Hollywood. She might have quit Hollywood had a family followed another dream. She had family at home who loved her and stood behind her. She had friends. We've all done some crazy things when we're young and in love, and I believe she probably would have moved past all that. Unfortunately she
never got that chance. The tragedy of this story is that Karen was so obsessed with fame and she finally got it, but she didn't really make headlines until it was her obituary. Helen Gone Murder Line is a production of School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts. It's written and narrated by me Catherine Townsend and produced by Gabby Watts. Special thanks to Amy Tubbs for her research assistance. Music contributed by Ben Sale. This episode was scored and mixed
by Noah Kamer. Executive producers of Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and Elsie Crowley. Listen to Helen Gone ad free by subscribing to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel on Apple Podcasts. You can follow the show on Instagram at Helen Gonepod. If you have a case you'd like me and my team to look into, you can reach out to us at our Helen Gone Murder line at six seven eight seven four four six one four five That six seven eight seven four four six one four five School of Humans