#54 Victor and Maite

Jackie. I can't. I can't hear you. Where are you.

I'm at the beach.

You're at the beach. Are you wearing plenty of ointment?

How are you?

I'm good. I had a medical question for you. Our audy belly buttons prefer to innis because they need less upkeep okay, As I was talking to my dentist, and when I pushed him on it, he says that, yes, what I know.

What shark?

Oh my god, I'm gonna tell your picture. Baby shark. Do do do do do do? Baby shark? Do do do do do? Baby shark?

Do do do do? Do do do?

I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is heavyweight. Today's episode Victor and Mita right after the break. Depending on how you look at it, the story of Victor in Mitay is either a love story for the ages or not a love story at all. Since first meeting Victor, I've been trying to decide which it is.

When she gets into a room, it's like the sun enters, you know, everything is nice and warm.

Victor is a painter living in New York, and he's describing Mighty, the woman who first stole his heart thirty five years ago.

The truth is, every time I see her, it's the most beautiful that I have seen her in my life.

Victor paints huge, spectacular canvases. There are common motifs like rotary phones, skulls, butterflies. But the thing that nearly every painting has in common, the thing Victor can't stop painting, is Mita. They first met at a party back home in Mexico thirty five years ago. Mita was eighteen and Victor was nineteen. All these years later and no detail has been forgotten.

She was wearing a white lace suit which was from her mother's, like a seventies thing from her mother.

How can you forget that?

Victor, shy by nature, said nothing to Mite at the party, But a couple months later he ran into her at the university they both attended.

And I asked her if she could model, and she said yes, And that's how everything started.

He almost did not even talk that day is my day. He just said, please sit here, and then he started painting. The whole studio smelled of paint, of oil. I was so nervous that I could barely think. My hands were shaking, and I brought a book. I think it was crime and punishment, and I was pretending that I was reading, but I could not focus on the reading at all.

Victor already knew he was going to be an artist, and it even begun to show his work in galleries. His drive made him seem older than his nineteen years.

I was still.

I felt that I was in the head and the body of a child. And here's this guy who was enormous, enormous in what he wasn't believed and knew. I barely knew anything.

Sitting there, holding still pretending to Dosteyevski, mighty was falling in love. After several hours, Victor stopped painting. He thanked Mite, told her she could go, but before she left, he showed her the canvas he'd been working on. As Mite recalls, he was almost blank, and.

I was surprised that there was not much on it, except for traces or something, but not as I had imagined.

I was to overwhelmed that this completely out of my league, beautiful popular girl came.

I couldn't do anything. Was just like.

But in the days after, I made from memory thirty five paintings.

After that first meeting, the two started. A couple years later, they married and moved to New York, where they had a daughter. Victor found success in New York. He was discovered by a famous art dealer and began showing in Europe, South America, and Asia. He sold enough paintings to support his family, but as time went on, his relationship with my Day began to deteriorate.

My nature is very depressive and more introspective and isolated, so I never want to do anything, never want to go to a picnic or hang with friends, or go to roller skating Central Park, that kind of thing.

I couldn't And she was the opposite, you know. She was like, let's do everything, Let's go out.

He was not very fond of me going out with friends, but he didn't want to go out with friends either, and that, you know, that was like a pain in the ass. And I think maybe he was always possessive. It's just that as we were growing older it felt more intense.

Everyone falls in love with her, men and women. Everyone. It's impossible not to. She's that kind of person. And I mean, I dealt with that for eleven years. Then I had to had to divorce.

In two thousand and three, Victor and miighty mutually decided that it was in their best interests to go their separate ways. But here's the thing, even now, twenty years after their divorce, Mighty is still the face of his work. The hands, the neck, the lips. Scrolling through his portfolio. It's image after image of Mighty might a reading, Mighty, drinking, Mighty talking on the phone. How many paintings would you say you have of her?

I'd made more than four thousand.

Probably was there for a point after you guys had broken up, for you made an effort to stop painting her.

Yes, of course.

When I've had girlfriends, the question always comes, are you planning to paint her forever?

You know?

And my answer is if you have a better idea, give me a better idea, and I might change it.

That's my answer.

And that's the only answer Victor offers, which makes me feel like a kid who won't stop asking. But why, but why why his ex wife? Why might?

I don't really know, But I've done experiments. I've had other models, professional models I hire, and the result is not the same because when I am working on those, I am working on everything that it's not her.

I am just describing what it's not.

Is Mie your first love.

I don't know.

I had a other girlfriends. You know that I thought that I loved. It's a there, but not like this. No, So the answer might be yes, is.

She is she your only love? Or have you found love since.

I fell in love since? But something dyed?

I don't want to be, you know, dramatic, but it's the innocence. I don't think it can be replicated.

Victor broke up with Mighty as a husband, and yet he can't break up with her as an artist. But can the two things be separated? To me, it seems impossible. But on this point, Victory is clear. He is an artist pursuing his inspiration, not a man pursuing a woman.

No, no, no, I'm.

Not trying to conquer her heart and to make her think that I love for No, No, absolutely.

Nothing at all.

So for you, it's not pining.

No.

In my Latin American markets, this is like a full on telenovela where I have old ladies come to me crying telling me that I will get her in the end, and everyone sees the art and uses her as a mirror to tell themselves a story.

I've been telling myself the very same story that boy wins girl, boy loses girl, and boy wins girl back by making thousands of paintings. Am I no different than the old ladies of the Latin American markets? Or do I see something about Victor that he himself does not. Eventually Mite got remarried, started a new family, and Victor kept his distance. Respecting the fact that Mite had moved on. He continued to paint her, though using old photographs as a reference. But then Mite got divorced.

And I ask her can I take some pictures?

Then she said yes, which is how Victor and Mite came up with an unusual arrangement, one that I've been trying to understand. One day each year, Mite goes to Victor's studio, just like she did when they were teenagers, and for this one day, she gives herself over to his art. She dons the costumes he chooses and holds the props he hands her. She sits still as he paints her face with makeup, and allows herself to be

Yeah, that's I mean, that's very nice. I I.

Don't really know what to say.

I mean, I I worry about him. I worry about how you know his state of mind or heart, and I want him to be fine and happy and find joy. What do you think? How do you see this?

I'm not sure how I see this. My day doesn't think Victor is in love with her, but enough people have asked her to raise some doubts. It is not easy to differentiate. We're enjoying ends Curator Gonzala or take a writes of Victor's work and where an obsessive fixation begins. It's this kind of thing. It's people like me that make Mighty question herself.

Do you do you think that I'm if you said, I mean, if someone says to me, this looks like you're hurting him, then I would do things differently.

Having talked to Victor about it at length, I don't think my ya is hurting him, but seen from the outside, the arrangement is unconventional.

If I try to.

Give it too much thought, I could go crazy a little bit.

Yeah. Yeah, So.

When I have doubts, it's important to know what Mikhaila thinks, and I feel that she can be my compass.

I think it really was for me normal that my dad painted my mom.

This is Victor in my Tay's daughter, Mikayla. She's twenty five, but was just five years old when her parents divorced.

I do remember one moment in high school friend of mine asked me, oh, your dad still paints your mom, and I said yeah, he does, yeah, and my friend said, well, he's still in love with her. Then right, he must still be in love with her, and I guess I did pause. I didn't really know what to say, and I think there was a moment of is he.

Could he be?

Maybe I should ask him?

And so I did. I asked him.

What did he say?

He said no.

Like any kid, Mikayla likes to see her parents getting along, so when her mom asks her if she's okay with her modeling, she's always said yes. But like me, Mikayla still has questions.

I'd be curious to learn more about my mom, what's going on through her mind, what she feels when she's doing it.

Talking to my Day, I got the impression that she might read to help Victor out of a sense of responsibility or even worry. But is that enough to keep someone returning to their ex husband over and over year after year. Now, along with my question about why Victor continues to paint my ta and only my ta, I have a new one, why does myte model? Have you ever stopped to imagine what it would be like to be on the receiving end of such attention, like what it's like for her?

Yes, I have thought how it must feel for her, and I have told her the date that you don't want me to do these things, I'll stop, and she hasn't.

She hasn't so far.

No, why do you think she comes to your studio? I, Jonathan, I truly have no idea.

Hmmm, I wonder. In a few weeks, Victor and Mite are planning their annual will photoshoot in Victor's studio. Perhaps the only way to truly understand why Persephone returns to Hades is to follow her down to the underworld and see firsthand after the break Victor Studio Victor, Oh, Hello, hi.

Wow.

On a warm Friday in May, I arrived at Victor's studio, a loft space with high ceilings and a concrete floor. Victor is dressed in black, black leather leggings, black boots, and thick black glasses. There are paintings and photos of my day everywhere. On one shelf, I noticed a photo of two feet raised on tiptoes. That is that my taste feet?

Yeah, m coming.

You can hear her voice, You can hear the footsteps, okay? Can you can you distinguish her footsteps from other footstep? As my taste steps grow louder, Victor turns to me suddenly, but yes, yes, I can.

Go with us.

My Tay arrives in a T shirt, knee length black skirts and cowboy boots. She's objectively striking. She and Victor both are. It's the first time I've ever been with them together, and it's like they go together, like Jack and Meg White or ant Man in the Wasp. I watch them as they watch each other, but of course I cannot see what Victor is seeing, and I cannot feel what either of them is feeling. During the photo shoot, Victor poses Mite beside a greco bust. He poses her

I should have bought some coises.

In spite of the surreal edge to the props, the shoot is surprisingly casual and relaxed. It has the mood of two old friends out for coffee. Sometimes Victor gives Mite direction.

Now that must sight I except.

But mostly he doesn't say anything.

She said natural it's incredible.

I don't do anything up until now. Myte has been reserved from the moment we met her body language betrayed someone who doesn't like attention. Yet as soon as the camera starts clicking, something happens. She comes alive. At one point, Victor compares Mite to Audrey Hepburn, who he says, is quote not as pretty.

Not not even close, but in the same style. Well that's so excessive.

Observing the day, one thing seems clear. In answer to Michayla's question about why her mother does it, maybe it's for the simple reason she enjoys it.

I think we're gone. Okay, I think we're gone.

After about an hour, the photo shoot is over. Victor thanks my Tay and insists on calling her a car. She's teaching a Spanish class this afternoon. She has a life to get back to.

Thank you very much.

I'll be back.

My Tay walks out, leaving me and Victor alone. Victor seems tired, and that way introverts get after expending a lot of social energy. After watching the shoot, I'm still not sure what to think. I was hoping that seeing Victor and my Tay together would answer all my questions, but it hasn't. I ask Victor how the shoot went, and he says he's pleased, But he says, I always want more. You know, I can't tell if he means

Multiplied by one hundred? You know?

I find with her that her beauty or her type of uh, I don't know what to call it can be.

I'm sure.

Once she had a tooth extracted when we were married, and the dentist were it to me, and it had a certain shape, and that shape was exactly the same type of beauty.

It's like the park contains the whole in micro and in macro. Okay, let's take it a step further. I mean, do you think you would be if you replaced ten teeth for some different people, you would be able to identify her tooth.

I'll go further. If you put ten thyroid glands. I think I have a good chance of guessing. Why listen, I don't know, And that's why I that's.

I know. This sounds like this is mad, This is crazy. I understand.

I know if I present my portfolio in an institution, mental institution, they will welcome me.

It's like, hey, do you belong here? Man?

Victor has insisted since the moment we met that he is not in love with my Day, and I want to believe him. But when he starts talking about how he can pick her thyroid gland out of a lineup, I find it hard to If that's not love, albeit a love bordering on obsession, then what is it. The force of your admiration doesn't seem like it's the right word of your I don't know what do you think is the right word? Is adoration?

Not?

The right word is no?

Uh, it's because you're trying to avoid the L word, which is love. Right, Victor pauses, I do feel love for.

Her, but as quickly as he admits it, he returns to the same old saw.

But to me, the only thing that matters is the final art product and painting.

This time, though, after having spent the day with them, after seeing the way he looks at my tay, the way that he hangs on her every move, I push back but you ever feel like it flows backwards. Also, you know what I mean that the that the art work is also a means of, you know, having a having a relationship where your love is permissible. Victor needs Miighty to make art. But might Victor's art in some ways be in service to spending time with Mighty?

Also?

Uh huh, Yeah, the answer is yes. Real love, real love is doesn't stop right, you know, it doesn't. It continues existing, It transforms itself, it moves in different ways.

So you're saying that this is real love.

Yeah.

For Victor, real love doesn't require wooing and rings and shared health insurance. Real love is simply delighting in the object of his affection. But Mite has a different idea of what real love is and what it isn't. I'm reminded of something she said the first time we spoke. She told me that even though Victor was always looking at her, she didn't feel seen.

It's easier to see someone from afar and idealize the person than to be in the every day and just dealing with the juggling of life.

But he was with the every day, you know, for many years. I mean, so it's it's not like he.

Yes, But I think I think that even then I was kind of an hologram.

It was like the ideal mite has a point. Real love isn't about the ideal. It's hard work and requires seeing a person in their entirety, imperfections and all. But then Victor tells me a story from after the divorce that makes me think he sees more than perhaps my day knows. If he cannot exactly see her imperfections, he can at least see his own.

One day, I was going back home in Manouver in a taxi and I saw her with her boyfriend and friends in a sitting outside the table in a restaurant or bar, and they were all super happy, you know, having a great time.

Victor had spent the whole day in his studio doing.

Like a very realistic depiction of her all day long. But there she is sitting down with those guys having a beer and talking about whatever and enjoying the day. And I thought I couldn't provide her with that happiness or like that regular normal, just enjoyment of life.

That was my feeling as a husband. You know what I'm thinking about?

In cave paintings like from fifty thousand years ago. They were the people there in the cave went to hunt for a bison or something, and there was always a dude who stayed behind.

To depict what happened. And sometimes I think that's my job.

I don't go out and have a experience, but I'm okay with it.

I'm a different thing, yeah, yeah, a different thing.

In college, I didn't really know how to be alone without feeling lonely.

This is Victor and my Day's daughter, Mikayla again.

Every time I was alone, I felt like I was doing something wrong or that, you know, I felt a little ashamed.

As it happens. Mikayla is a social psychology doctoral student, and her work focuses on, of all things, the study of loneliness. A little bit, it feels like she's dedicated her life to trying to understand her dad.

There was a moment my sophomore year of college when I was feeling really alone and very lonely, and I called my dad and we talked for a while, and he told me something that has stuck with me to this day. He said, being alone does not mean being lonely. It really struck me.

And do you think your dad was talking about himself.

Yeah, I think of him as someone who really enjoys his solitude. Yeah, if he wanted to have a significant other, if he wanted to have a big group of friends, he totally could. But he doesn't want to, and he knows that's a choice. So he's making a choice, which I think is hard for some people to understand.

Victor's alone, but not lonely. He's not with somebody, and yet he is sort of Finally, I think I understand Victor couldn't handle being with Mita in her three dimensions, but with this arrangement, he only has to be with her in two. Victor can worship Mite as he did that first time he laid eyes on her as a teenager, and then he lets her leave. For Mite's part, she

You know what I don't. I don't have anything to do. All I do is computer and work.

You'll be here working. Yeah.

Victor then tells me he's looking forward to the weekend, and I believe him.

Now that the furnitures returning to its goodwill home, now that the last month's rent is scheming with the damage to take this moment to deserve.

If we meant it, if we.

Trust but felt around for far too from things that accidentally.

This episode of Heavyweight was produced by supervising producer Stevie Lane and me Jonathan Goldstein, along with Phoebe Flanagan. Our senior producer is Khalila Holt. Production assistance by Moheey mcgauker, the editorial guidance from Emily con Special thanks to Lauren Silverman, Neil Drumming, mime O'Donnell, Anya Schultz, Jackie Cohen, and Jessica Basheer, who directed a short documentary about Victor's art called Heroin which is where I first learned about Victor and Mitay.