#34 Annie

Pushkin.

Hi, Dear, how are you?

Do people ever approach you to tell you that you sound just like Jackie from Heavyweight?

No, that can't happen.

If they did, would you tell me or you would feel like it would?

No?

Of course I would not share it.

So how do I know if someone has said it? You don't someone has said it, haven't they? No, Johnny, you paused before you said no, I'll.

Like not but like been a long time from now.

In a soon time from now, right soonish, I'm.

Trying to break up john I'm trying to break up with you.

Well, you can't break up with me because I'm breaking up with you.

Do you want to see who hangs up first?

I don't. It's like a duel rat from Gimblet Media.

I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is Heavy Wait Today's episode Annie.

Right after the break.

Every day I receive emails from people looking to make peace with the past, resolved some long standing hurt that still nags at them. These are emails filled with regret and reflection, carefully chosen words labored over sentences. Annie's email possessed none of these elements. Annie's email possessed a lot of exclamation points and words in all caps. The story she told was of her uncle in all the ways

Yeah.

I had a different thought about this one, and so I lay out the plan to Khalila. I will pass the baton to her so that both she and Annie can grow into their best selves. I was thinking, you know, I would sit this one out and allow you your chance to shine.

So you want to send me into a cringy situation instead.

I think so mm hmmm.

I feel like an armchair colonel dispatching a foot soldier on my behalf. I have to stay behind and do paperwork.

Right, and I have to go out there and get shot.

I do feel like you can offer support and she can, like maybe teach you something as well.

Here comes wellness.

What did you just swallow? Is that saliva?

Yeah? Really? Yeah? In spite of what Jonathan might think, Annie and I actually have a lot in common.

My favorite food is breakfast.

I mean too, I have a breakfast tattoo.

Stop it, Yeah, I have breakfast.

Annie goes by two different names, Annie and Andrea, and so do I, Khalila and Kaylee. While in for four years CALLI. My birthday is April fifth and her birthday is April sixth, And in our youth, we both harbored a weird obsession with cows. But of course there's the one key way in which Annie and I are different. Annie has no problem causing a fuss, and as for.

Me, good morning, good morning?

Is this Joe?

It is?

This is talking to Joe. Joe is the audio engineer I hired to record Annie's side of the conversation. Annie and I are talking over the phone. I'm in New York. Annie's at Joe's studio in Seattle. Are you guys all set up like you're recording and everything?

Normally about five minutes?

Okay? By okay, I mean this is not okay. The great Canadian documentarian Jonathan Goldstein once told me that the way one captures the magic is to abr always be recording. So when I booked studio time, I asked Joe repeatedly to start recording Annie the moment I phoned. Instead, he seems to be taking pictures of his dog Domino. But I would never confront Joe about this, because that is not the person I am. The person I am would rather take on huge amounts of discomfort myself than make

I am sorry?

Who am I talking to on the phone?

Khalila Khalia?

Could you speak for just a few moments and just have a.

Sure are you recording? Uh?

Just about I'm just kind of focusing the mic and getting it.

Well. I make problems worse by pretending that there is no problem. Annie makes problems worse by flying off the handle. Oh great, thank you, Joe. And once we can finally start talking, Annie explains how this is precisely what happened with her uncle.

I really look up and admire my uncle.

Annie's uncle Tim is like an old fashioned cowboy out of a Western. When she was a kid, her family would drive from Seattle to Utah every summer to visit his dairy farm.

I loved going to Utah. I loved it. I couldn't even wait to be dropped off at Uncle Tim's. Like everybody else was staying at Grandma's down the street, and I just couldn't even be bothered to put my bags down, Just drop me off at Uncle Tim's.

Him teaching me how to milk cows.

And I got a special title when all the cows line up and you you know, you have to sanitize and clean their utters and everything before you start milking them.

I was the dippy girl.

Tim only became more important to Annie as her other family dwindled. Her dad died when she was a teenager, and then she lost a cousin she was close with to a traumatic accident. It made her realize how abruptly people could be taken from you. She wanted to hold on tight to the family she still had. She wanted to hold on to Tim. All through her teen years. Annie continued to visit Tim on the farm, and after he retired, Tim and his wife would make regular visits

Now they'll come a couple times a year, and they don't tell me, and I don't hear from my mom when they're coming. This isn't something that happens like occasionally. This is now every time they come here.

How long has what been going on for?

Now?

Like years?

I would have to say at least ten.

For ten years now. When Tim and his wife come to town, they always hang out with Annie's mom, but not with Annie. Annie has countless stories of being left out, each more hurtful than the last.

Got a couple of favorites.

Yeah please, Okay, So I'd.

Called my mom and I'm on Fourth Avenue.

The details of these stories are convoluted, and understanding the true extent of each slight requires a greater knowledge of Seattle geography than this reporter possesses. There was a time Tim and his wife went to some big ferris wheel called the Great Wheel, and Annie was not invited, even though it's only two blocks from her office.

I can see it out the window of my office.

But then there was the night they said they were eating dinner too far away for Annie to join, when it turned out that really they were all eating right around the corner at the Space Needle. But the final straw, the incident that made Annie write into the show, occurred last summer.

Well.

Annie's mom was visiting Tim in Utah. One morning, Annie called her mom to chat.

And she's, oh, oh, yeah, no, we're all at breakfast And I was like, oh, that's fun.

Are you guys at Maddox Maddox being a restaurant in Utah. Annie's mom didn't answer. Instead, she put Annie on speakerphone so Annie could chat with her cousin Tyler, And I was like.

Oh, you guys at Maddocks, What are you guys doing? And He's like, no, we came.

Here here being not Utah, here being Seattle. It turned out the whole family had flung back to Seattle together the day before, and no one had told Annie.

I said, what now, I said, we're here, We're at We're with your mom. I'm on her phone. We're at Patty's Egg's Nest. In the background, I hear my mom tell her we call her back.

We're eating.

I am like twelve minutes away from these people. I was even like more offended, more hurt that it was breakfast.

Yeah, I completely understand that.

And I totally listen. I think I blacked out. I don't know what happened, but something inside me snapped.

I was so.

Mad that I said, listen, you tell her that if you are indeed out at breakfast at the Patty's Eggs Nest, do not bother calling me back.

And I hung up.

When she gets angry like this, Annie's family dismisses her as just being dramatic, which makes Annie even angrier. After this breakfast situation, I had an absolute temper tantrum on Facebook. What did you say?

Oh God, I'm cringing because this is what I did. I make a post that says, PSA, uh, if you are at a gathering with family and not all your family in the area has been invited.

You are an asshole. I can see that.

When I'm hurt like this, like just so deeply that it really manifest is anger.

I never allow myself luxury of that kind of anger. I've had family vacations planned with no consideration for my schedule, a family portrait taken without me, And while I'm genuinely hurt by these things, I'd never make a scene. So I admire the way Annie is so willing to call people out, no matter how great the consequences. In the days following the breakfast incident, a new thought dawned on Annie. Maybe she wasn't being excluded accidentally. Maybe Tim and the

I just want to know what it is.

Do you have any like theories about what?

I have a million theories a million You know, I was raised Mormon, I'm not Mormon anymore. I got pregnant with my daughter at seventeen years old. I am gay, and I am loud, and and I.

Say off the cuff and out of pocket shit.

Have you ever asked some point blank, like what's going on?

No, I haven't asked them directly. I mean, and now we're at a point where I haven't talked to them at all, and I can't talk about this without it just.

Blowing up, and so it just doesn't get anywhere, you know, no resolution.

This is where I come in.

I think I think it would help having somebody else ask why for.

All her bluster, Annie's anger hasn't led to anything constructive. So all the old host of this program thinks Annie has all these lessons to teach me, Maybe I have lessons to teach her too. So maybe like a combination of your directness and my extreme head giness together would form a reasonable person who could find something out, I think. So Annie tells me that no one in her family knows she's contacted heavyweight about this, and so you're gonna

For me.

A cold call is a terrible trap of anxiety and dread. As the phone rings, I pray it will go to voicemail. Hello, it does not go to voicemail. So to convey we're all pals here and you shouldn't yell at me, I raise my voice several octaves. Hi is this Angie?

Yes it is.

I try to put Angie at her ease, explaining how I work on this podcast about helping people, and it's usually hosted by this guy, Jonathan. But Jonathan handed me Annie's case because he thinks it's high time I learned a good lesson about personal resilience or something, possibly the value of a dollar. Finally, much to my relief, Angie cuts me off.

Yeah, okay, Well, do you want to hear my side of the story? You're not really your yes?

Yeah, yeah, please?

Okay.

So to Angie, this whole breakfast blow up was, to quote Billy Shakespeare, much ado about nothing. She explained that, to quote Billy Joel, she didn't start this fire. Tim was going on a cruise that sailed from Seattle, and so he and his family spent one night at Angie's house so she could drive them to the dock in the morning.

You know, this is a mad dash rush to get them to the cruise ship. It wasn't like we had planned a breakfast we had decided that morning. Are we gonna go grab something at Jack in the Box or do we have time to go to the restaurant?

In her telling like she didn't even know that the family was stopping in Seattle.

Oh yes she did, yes, Oh yeah, Okay, then there was another incident while we were all in Seattle.

One by one, Angie refutes each of Annie's stories of exclusion, and hearing Angie's take on the whole thing, it does all sound like a big overreaction. It makes me wonder whether Annie, to quote Billy Eilish, is the bad guy.

There's always drama surrounding Annie. She's really got in her mind that we just are totally cutting her out, when from my perspective, we're not cutting her out.

After getting off the phone, I don't know whether to believe what Annie said or what Annie said, I would need some sort of tiebreaker. I'd need to hear from more family. So to turn this she said, she said into what she said she said? She said? She said, I call Annie's daughter Savannah.

I'm at work, but I'm totally free right now. But if someone comes in only to.

Take care of them and Annie's sister Jamie.

Dealing with my own drama over here, my fiance of nine and a half years.

Has moved out.

Oh god, I'm sorry to hear that.

Well, I'm not.

My sister's drama. Everyone in Nannie's family speaks of a similar affect. Talking to them feels a bit like watching one of those movies where Jim Carrey plays eight roles. I asked, Savannah, is this happening or not? Is any being excluded from plans with Tim?

Oh?

Definitely. I asked Jamie the same question.

They come out a lot and they don't invite her.

Are you getting invited to this stuff?

Nope, not even a little bit.

Do you? Does it bother you?

No?

I do not care. I definitely have one of those personalities that if if someone doesn't want to involve me, I'm just kind of like, okay, don't with the door hit you or the good Lord split yet, but my mom kind of gets like, hey, wait, but but why not? Why why don't you want to hang.

Out with me?

Or like what what's going on? Hold on, have a good one.

Where do you work? By the way, Seattle sun tan Oh it's it like a tanning place. Yes, it's Seattle Suntana tanning place. I can't. I believe this family's happiness rests in my hands. As for Jamie, she says she's too busy for any additional plans.

Somebody called me and said, hey, you want to go to great well, I'd be like, no, not to day, definitely not tomorrow. It's like I'm chasing kids through hockey games. I want to be and have been that mom who has been to every hockey game, and me and other moms, we will tell you like, there's no family like hockey family.

But unfortunately for Annie, she doesn't have a hockey family. She's stuck with just a boring, old family family. Her siblings have spouses, little kids, whole sports teams of community. Annie's a single mom. Her daughter is twenty now, already out of the house and forging her own life. One of the few people Annie's always had to turn to is Tim, and now it feels like she doesn't even have him. Baseball season is starting soon, and Tim always

Ticket right travel plan.

I'm a little paranoid. I'm like gonna get stuck there with all this virus stuff going on. Oh ho ho, this virus stuff. That conversation was recorded at the end of February twenty twenty. A month and a half later, and I've purchased an office chair for my bedroom, hoarded cant goods and toilet paper, texted all my contacts how

Hello.

Hi Is this Tim? Yes, Hi, this is I try to put Tim at his ease, explaining how I work on this podcast about helping people, and it's usually hosted by this guy, Jonathan. But Jonathan thinks it's high time I learned a good lesson about personal resilience, and as I bother on, I keep hoping Tim will cut me off, but he does not. Yeah. So, like, so, your niece Annie actually had reached out to us about some stuff sort of that's going on with your family. Do you

Slightly?

Whereas Annie has poured over the details a million times. All Tim remembers is that Annie got mad about something or other.

Can you tell me what her perspective was what we did to her?

Yeah?

Sure, I mean, like I think from her perspective, Yeah, she just feels left out, Like she feels like there's sort of a pattern. Look at me explaining a problem head on instead of just nervously avoiding it and like to have you come to town and not tell her and make time to see her. I think she just like to her it does feel more personal.

I love Annie to death.

I mean, from the time Annie was a teenager, me and Annie we have got along really well.

I hope she's ain't got something against me.

I would never intentionally make any films bad ever, And I hate to hear that she's going over this still, I haven't talked to her for quite a while, and now I know I need to, so.

In an effort to get the reconciliation train chugging along, I suggest to Tim that we turned to the thing so many of us have turned to in these difficult times. Let's do a zoom.

I did try one of them zoom or whatever they are.

Called meetings, and I did not like it a bit.

I have trouble hearing.

And the joke has been boy, I love to keep Uncle Tim on the phone more than five minutes, because I know he's going crazy just trying to hear. I hate electronics myself, but no, I'm going to give Anny. I'll call her and just talk to her, and if I can do anything else for you, I'll do anything for Annie.

Time to sit back and wait for the Catharsist to roll in. The Only problem is it doesn't, not by a long shot. After speaking with Tim, I told Annie to expect his call, but for days she heard nothing.

At first, I was kind of like, what the hell? I would have called my niece right away, and then I kind of, you know, I kind of circled back into like, oh, he must be really trying to come up with like a thoughtful response to me. You know, maybe he's just feeling really bad.

And then Tim did call, Oh, he called my mother. After speaking to me, Tim reached out not to Annie but to Annie's mom, his middleman, Angie. Angie spoke with Tim the same way she did with me, contradicting Annie's timeline and basically reminding Tim of how dramatic Annie can be. And in Angie's telling, I'd become an extension of this drama. Apparently, Angie and Tim call me the podcast lady. I hope I'm not like making things worse by calling this.

This is always how, this is what, this is what it is, and this is why I emailed in the beginning.

I'm out of my depth. So I call up the person who got me into this mess to begin with, Hello, Jonathan.

Hey, Hoggie wants to say, Hi, Hi.

Agye, how are you good? Glad to hear what's up?

Well?

You know I'm doing that anything that you told me to.

Do today's episode, right? Any mm hmm.

I basically I thought things were going pretty well and now things are not going well. I explained the whole fiasco to Jonathan Mike called it Tim. Tim's called a angie my now being the podcast lady.

So they see they see her contacting a podcast as kind of a dramatic flourish, right, right, So you're at that point where you feel like you're making things worse, not better. See, it's very familiar to me. It's it's always uh, there is always that risk. Sometimes it just takes time. I think that's the thing, Like that's the the money loser of our operation. I think it's just you can't rush these things. Do you call him Uncle Tim when you talk to Annie? No, well maybe that's

I'm not going to do that.

John, you see too much go game. Did you know that John Stewart's middle name was Stuart? Is that his real last name is Leeboys?

Okay, okay, but this is great. I mean this is great for me. It's like I'm on holiday. I've put a pin in this whole cat's in the cradle situation. I'm spending much more time with Ougi and it's just been it's been fabulous. Aggy I think you should maybe put that down, Honey, that's not a toy. He's holding a big mallet.

Well, anyway, I hope.

So does this help? So you're saying, give it a few days to play.

Out, Yeah, give it, give it a few days.

I give it a few days, then a few more days, then a few more, then a few weeks. Just to be safe. I talked to your uncle a month ago. Yeah, he said he was gonna call you and nothing. Jonathan told me to give it time. The time has gotten me nowhere. So I gear myself up to be the pushiest I've ever been in my life, and the sweatiest and the highest pitched.

Hi.

Tim, Yes, Hi, this is Khalila who's recording with a podcast with Annie. Do you remember me?

Oh?

Yeah, I just had been checking in with Annie and she said that she hadn't.

She hasn't heard from me.

Do you want to just try calling her together? Right now?

Actually?

I am actually I am just walking out the.

Door to go to work.

Okay. It doesn't have to be today either, Like so, I'm open to whatever is best for you. If there's another day that's better, well, uh, I don't know.

I can't.

I haven't thought about that right now. So actually I'm in a real hurry right now.

So and Tim's supposed to be a Mariners fan more like a Dodgers fan. Am I right?

Am?

I right? Two weeks later, I checked back in with Danny. You didn't happen to hear from your uncles to do you? No? No, he didn't call. No, it's not going to happen. Having spoken with Tim, I'm not exactly feeling like a ray of optimism myself. But while Annie is one hundred percent certain Tim has written her off, I'm only ninety seven percent certain. I don't want her to slam the door just yet. It's gonna happen.

Yeah, right, if it's gonna get off the ground, I mean, it's definitely gonna have to be as But that's okay.

It's not okay to me, And I don't think it's really okay to Annie. If Annie's the one to reach out, she'll just be playing into the same dynamic as always, showing up at the table and begging for scraps. So I encourage Annie to just wait. But a week goes by, and another and then another, and I start to feel like Annie was right her uncle will never.

Call Annie trying to get a hold of you.

Call me.

I didn't hear my phone ring or anything. And then weirdly, it just came through on my watch that had this voicemail from uncle Tim, and I was like, my heart just went boom.

Annie had been with friends watching the movie Burlesque when finally, out of the blue, Tim called. Amidst the excitement of Chaer yelling at Christina Aguilera to make the stage her own. One of Annie's friends asked her what was up. I was like, no, it's just my uncle.

And my one friend goes the one that doesn't talk to you, and I was like, yeah, well, I guess he is trying to talk to me. And I've spent this whole time like thinking that I'm not really like worth a call. So I was glad to know that he had called, and so then when I heard his voice, I was like kind of emotional because I haven't like talked to him in so long.

At this point, it's been almost a year since Annie and her uncle last spoke. We decide Sunday is the day that's when we'll call Tim back, but then Annie pushes it to Monday. I'm really nervous, she tells me. On Monday, she cancels last minute. Annie's now feeling something different than she's used to. It's not anger, something she can yell her way through. Instead, Annie's feeling vulnerable, and that's scarier. I finally get her to commit to Tuesday.

I have not even eaten like today. I'm totally freaking out. I cannot believe I'm doing this. Okay, I'm ready, Shall we do it?

Okay?

Wait?

Okay go Hello Hi Uncle Tim?

Hello, how are.

You happy birthday?

Well? Thank you?

Khalila is on this call too, Hi, Hi, Tim.

What did you just say?

I said, Khalila's on this call too. Hi, It's a okay. I just want to talk to you.

If that's okay, that's that's fine.

I feel like.

Sometimes like I feel like I'm genuinely like her and upset about sometimes when everyone's getting together and I feel kind of left out or like an afterthought when everyone is like going out. But I just wanted to tell you about it because I feel like there's maybe like two people on the planet that like really get me, and like I feel like you're my person, especially after

So that's why I feel like when I'm not included.

I know that I'm rambling, but I feel like when I'm just not included sometimes it just like I do feel sad.

Well, it was an intentional and I hope it never happens again.

So anyway, Tim.

Wants to sweep the mess of Annie's feelings under the rug, but before he just moves on, I raised the question and he brought to me in the first place. Annie, can I ask too, Like it seems like part of it was that you were afraid that it was something about your personality. Yeah.

I have felt like that, like if people don't want me around because I'm too loud, or it's like there's something about me that people are like offended by.

Oh, I can tell you if you're not like pissed at somebody, we all know you're the funnest to be around, right, but when you get like you're like mad at somebody, it's not like the sweetest to be around.

Then all that clattering is coming from Annie's side of the call. She started pacing around, organizing her toilet trace. She's agitated by what Tim is saying. Annie's willing to call people out no matter the consequences. But there are consequences. It seems Tim's distance has nothing to do with Annie's being gay, or not being Mormon or having been a teen mom. It might simply be that generally people just want to eat their eggs in peace and pretend like

I do feel really bad about the I think that when everybody was at breakfast. I was just shocked and I used to right up flipped out. I was so upset and so like, you know, I'm sorry that I obviously didn't handle it very well. I've am in a better place. And if we're being honest, medicated and so wait, I know I'm not perfect, That's that's all.

And yeah, Tim stays quiet for a moment, and when he speaks, it's not to Annie but to me. Much as he might resent my presence, Tim like always chooses to go through a middleman.

Well, and as far as Annie goes, she's just always been special to me.

The first time she's.

Going to get married, that's going to give her away, you know, I says, yeah, I'll buy me a new suit. I'll do anything for you, and anyway, and then he was cheating on her or something. A few years later, she says, you're going to give me away, and I says, you bet, And she says, well, does it matter if I'm marrying a girl? And I says, Annie, if boys don't work, girls are fine for me.

I'll do anything for you. And I feel like she's my daughter.

I've loved Annie since she's just a little girl, and we've always just connected, my little dippy girl. I mean I've I've laid for hours on Annie's bed and just you know, and hell there.

And we could talk about anything or not say anything. I've never thought bad of Annie.

Then suddenly, mid sentence, Tim addresses Annie directly.

I've never thought of leaving you out. I know if you feel bad, that it.

If you're feeling bad, especially when I'm talking to you, it really makes me feel bad.

So I know.

I just I love you Tim a lot.

Definitely missed hearing your voice, and I feel like we haven't talked in so long, and so it got to.

Make more effort to even talk like this because it is nice to hear your voice too.

Well, that makes me better. It's not a break, it's invitation a baseball game or even a zoom. But despite the fact that Tim hates being on the phone for more than five minutes, he's still here talking.

I think this is the longest I've talked to you over the phone.

I wish I'd give you a big squeeze right now, me too.

Maybe next time that you guys come down, we'll just plan something just for me and you to do.

Yes, we will. I love you.

I love you too. Thank you for talking to me.

I will talk to you anytime. You know that. Love you Annie, love you.

See ye bye bye.

We did it, We did it. I'm disappointed. And now there's a pandemic and we can't go to Patty's Eggs, which I really wanted to go out.

Right as they like play us out, silver ware clinking around in the background.

Yeah I can hear it now.

Yeah, I just park in the grass. Oh no, I'm moving on.

My date's here. All right, you got a lot going on. I won't keep you. Thank you for everything. I'll talk to you later. All right, talk to you later. And with that, I settled down at my desk alone to finish eating my fritata, a fritata delivered to my apartment cold and in a coffee soaked bag. But rather than kick up a fuss, I thank the delivery man profusely and tipped him generously. Like all of us, he's probably just doing his best, just enjoying my breakfast. Now that the.

Fern ures Riff turned into its.

Goodwill home, now that the last month's raft is scheming.

With the damage to pos, take this moment to dissolve, if we message, if we talked.

Around for far too, Thanks Good Accid.

This episode of Heavyweight was produced by me Khalila Holt along with Stevie Lane, An Armchair Colonel Jonathan Goldstein. Special thanks to Emily Condon, Alex Bloomberg, Matilda Fellino, Nea Bloomfield, I'm a Monger, Zach Schmidt, Sam Riceman, and Jackie Cohen. Bobby Lord mixed the episode with original music by Christine Fellows, John K. Sampson, and Bobby Lord. Additional music credits can be found on our website, gimlipmedia dot com slash Heavyweight.