2026 Update: Tony

Pushkin.

Hello, Hello, who is this? This is Khalila Holt, your producer.

Well, hello, hello, nice to have you back in the studio.

Welcome, Nice to be reunited in this auditory space.

Yes, indeed it is. Have a seat please.

I'm already sitting, but thank you. Yes, we are going to revisit some favorite episodes this spring.

Yes, I couldn't be more excited.

Do I sound not excited at all? But yeah?

You know, sometimes my enthusiasm doesn't come across, and I'm always surprised. Like same, Like in photos, I think that I'm smiling, but then when I see the photos, not only am I not smiling at all, it looks like I'm scowling.

I have a really hard time showing enthusiasm too. I've noticed that often when I try to like really lean into enthusiasm in my voice, it sounds like I'm being sarcastic.

Yeah, but I am excited, and I'm going to approve me too. I'm going to prove to you my excitement and my enthusiasms as this conversation goes on.

Okay, I look forward to that. Yes, and we're gonna also check in with our former guests, because you know, a lot of them have had some changes in the years since.

Whereas stories end, lives continue, and.

So I do end eventually.

Oh God, thanks for bringing the whole thing down.

I'm just saying.

I mean, it's everyone's thinking it all right.

Anyway, who are we talking about today?

So today we're gonna revisit the episode Jonathan about your friend Tony from our very first season.

I love it. It's been a long time.

Yeah, that was my favorite episode that season. Something about it just really moved me.

Huh.

Again, it sounds like I'm being sarcastic, but I'm serious. I really liked it.

No, no, I believe you. It's a It's a personal favorite of mine because Tony is one of my best friends, and he's an interesting man and his life beyond the story continued to be interesting and flow in all kinds of unexpected and original directions, so I was really excited to check in with him after we kind of what's the thing that they do in movies? Like after the rap party of this episode, and actually, speaking of rap parties, Yes you want me to do some rapping?

No? No, thank you? Okay, I have a fun, little fun story from.

Production, Oh please.

Which is that there's a part in this where one of Tony's godson says it's over for you, you old sausage.

Yeah.

When we celebrated the first season, I, at the suggestion of Chris Neery, one of the producers on the first season, right, went and got a cake and I asked them to put on It's over you old sausage.

I do remember this, and I thank you. I thank you again for that. But if you had to do it all over again, if you were to make edits, might you say it's not over you a young sausage.

It's still going you young sausage.

So enjoy, Yeah, enjoy. We'll check in with Tony at the end of the episode, and not to overpromise, but there's just a lot that's gone on in his life and a lot that continues to go on. Yes, but first things first, a word from our sponsors.

Did hi?

This is Khalila from Gimlet Media. Please hold for Jonathan Goldstein.

I'm sorry, who is this.

Khalila from Gimblet Media. Please hold for Jonathan Goldstein?

Please hold? Yeah, Wow, Hello, Hello. How nice of you to take the call from yourself. Oh hey, Jackie, you seem surprised that you called me so to hear from you.

You.

I didn't realize that I had you on my calendar. But this is great. How are you doing? It's been so busy. It's nice to decompress and have a normal conversation. How's it going from Gimblet Media. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is Heavyweight Today's episode.

Tony, Paul, how are you very good?

Thanks?

I was wondering if you would be up for meeting me for an hour?

Okay, what about I was.

Absent for most of your life, and you know, I've always felt sad about it.

Here's something you don't hear every day. A godfather awkwardly asking out his thirty one year old godson on a god date.

I know you're I know your busy as life, mouthed father. Who and but I think you'd spare an hour like Monday or Tuesday night, you know.

Unfortunately, a week in advance not to I don't know what.

The hell was not the godfather being blown off as my friend Tony, the realization that he needed to be a better godfather came suddenly. It was like if Vido Corleone woke up one morning and thought, you know, godfathering should be more than just decapitating horses, and then picked up a rotary phone and asked Johnny Fontaine out on an ice cream date. But to explain how Tony got to this point, let's go back to the beginning. It all started when Tony and I were catching up and

It's really great. I've like, I'm actually enjoying the process I'm making this film, which is I think the really amazing thing about the past year.

This past year has been a hard one for Tony. He's recently divorced and still adjusting the house that has been settled.

Yeah, everything is settled. Everything is settled. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I first met Tony in college when he was a young film student with manic energy, Jean Shallatt, curly black hair, and gray clothes that always smelt of Greek food. After college, we became roommates and on the weekend his would visit. She referred to me as gatzo'meli's mano everyaki, which I think translates loosely as the alley cat haired little jew. But I didn't mind because whenever she showed up, she brought Homemateespencopita and Terra mussolada. Tony would wash down these

She was not happy. She was not happy, She was not happy. She just didn't want to be here.

Natalie wanted to start a new life in a new place, but Tony felt happily stuck in the old one and he couldn't leave his mother all alone. So when Natalie decided to leave town, he knew he couldn't go with her. Was there ever a conversation in which you were both trying to envision a way in which you could leave the city.

No, because there was no way.

Like even with your mother to go with you.

Why is that no?

Tony's mother is an eighty four year old Greek woman with little English whose only hobbies are meticulously cleaning her toaster of and wringing her hands while frowning and so in here lies the heart of Tony's current problem. Before they separated, Tony and Natalie were trying to have a baby, and now he finds himself alone, middle aged, and worried he's missed his last chance to have a kid.

I don't think there's a point to anything if you don't have a relationship with a young person. How do you mean if I sit here in the dark thinking about it and realizing, you know, I'm forty six years old and I live alone, and I'm not probably not going to have kids, and who the fuck gives a shit if I live or die aside from my mother and a few friends, But really, who gives a shit. You know, who's going to feel a loss. I'm not saying that in an egotistical way, But who do I

Lately, Tony's been thinking about three young people he had been connected to, his estranged god children. Tony admits to screwing up those three relationships during three difficult chapters in his life drug addiction, rehab, and divorce. What if you were to try to get them back in your life?

I'm not sure what difference I can make and somebody's it's kind of like, hey, yeah, here I am now, I'm ready for you, Like I haven't been here all these years, but hey here I am now. You know.

Not hearing my friend give up on himself so easily, I decided to suggest something bold. Why not try reaching out to the god kids he lost?

Now? I mean, I actually do want to have a relationship. I do.

You don't know until you at least try.

Right, I'm I'm I'm open to anything.

And do you have their phone numbers? I get him to tell me about them, Beginning with the first Paul.

I was sixteen years old. It was very formal. I held this kid in a Greek Orthodox baptism ceremony for an hour. My arm almost fell off. Babies are really heavy, especially when you have one arm to hold onto them and have a candle in the other. Yeah, but it was cute. You know. I was really young, and I was close to their family, but I was sixteen. Within like two years, I was a raving, lunatic, alcoholic drug addict. I didn't see much of him or anybody at all

And this god kid, what's his name. His name is Paul, and Paul would be about thirty years old.

Now, uh, yeah, he's thirty one. And here's the thing. I've never actually talked to him about about how he felt having an absence he godfather. But he beat me at an arm wrestle, and he I think he really enjoyed that.

And when you say he enjoyed that, he enjoyed hanging out and spending time with you, or he enjoyed beating you, enjoyed beating me for being such a crappy godfather.

That's what I'm saying.

Yeah, is there a particular question that you would want to pose to him or to all of them?

Do you hate me? Like? Does it mean anything that I'm somebody's godfather because I said so or somebody said so, or we did something long time ago. It can mean nothing or it can mean something. You know, Godfather's a big fucking deal if you think about it. It has this spiritual implication God right, it's not toilet father.

And so, with my encouragement, Tony picked up the phone and reached out to Paul, which brings us back to the phone call you heard.

Earlier on Saturday.

Yeah, I think that's that'll be easiest.

Okay are you? Are you up to this? You don't feel like I don't want to impose on you like.

And you said you know you feel bad. I don't think you should. There's nothing to feel bad about. Yeah, yeah, but yeah, give me a call the weekend and we'll try to figure something out.

Okay, great, I'll call you perfect right, sounds good. YouTube.

On Saturday, Tony called with no response, He reached out again and again. Eventually he gave up. Tony and Paul never got together. Tony and I reconvene, and I tried to bolster his spirits. Maybe things would go better with godchild. The second Zoe.

She is the daughter of a rehab buddy who was actually also a drug dealer here in Montreal when I was dealing in Montreal and we met in rehab in Ottawa, and he asked me, do you want to be her godfather? I said sure, I said you guys in baptizer. I said, no, be her godfather? Okay, great, And so it was just like that. So that was easy, yeah, but it was meaningful. I was happy to do whatever was going to be

In the intervening years, Tony's only seen Zoe a couple times when she comes to town. She doesn't bother looking him up.

Because I remember how I used to see people that were like, never mind forties. Yeah, like people in their thirties were crusty, you know, a yellow tonyailed you know, old people, and occasionally, you know, I get like she likes something on my Facebook page and I'll be like ooh.

But Tony wants more than that. Since Zoe still lives in Ottawa, just a two hour drive away, I suggest to go visit her. Maybe it isn't too late. But after his failed attempt with Paul, he isn't sure she'll even want to see him, so I offered a road trip down with him for emotional support. You know, the whole purpose of this thing is for you not to be a dead meat.

God Dad, I know. I feel really bad. It's my fault.

It's Zowa's last week of high school and Tony's arranged to pick her up after her day of finals.

You don't mind driving a little fast to you. Don't go like snail past grandma style.

That's my style, No grandma style.

Don't do that.

When we get to the school, Zoe's waiting outside.

All right, here we go. You're feeling good. I'm feeling good.

There we get, here we go, Here we're weird.

Hello, Hello, how are you?

Zoe is eighteen. She's wearing a Yin and Yang choker around her neck and a pink scrunchy in her hair.

So how's everything?

How are you really good, almost done high school, the final Frontier.

So let's go to the park.

Would you like some candy?

Tom Zilli?

As Tony's emotional support system, I thought it might be helpful to bring refreshments. We drive along, chewing in silence, and then Tony decides to break the ice.

I have a really disgusting story to tell you.

Well, can you contextualize what discussing?

Oh my god, I'm only thinking about it because it happened right around here.

Oh no, I don't like where this is going.

A friend of mine has been color electing his vomit for the past twenty years in a gigantic tin like a gigantic metal drama in the basement.

Oh my god, what heck?

I wasn't expecting.

That's so terrible.

Why would you?

Why would you bring something like that up right now?

So like, how did you find out about that?

So many questions and fun fact, the vomit house is on Ralph Street. Google map it. It's right there next to Brown's inlet the park we're on our way to.

I've only been to this park once before, and.

That was a weird day.

Explain.

I started dating this guy and like the first time we ever hung out outside of school was in this park. We were on those swings and I just remember being like, Wow, this is really weird, like this is a date.

So I guess that was like my first date.

We find a picnic table beside the playground where young mothers are playing with their babies. Tony and Zoe sit side by side. She fiddling with a strand of hair and he's staring at the table, sweeping pebbles of sand. Back and forth. The two of them catch up. It turns out Zoe's taking improv classes and Tony's taken improv classes too.

Back and forth. Ah, I'd love to see that. I'd love to see that.

You'd like my troop.

I think you'd like those guys a lot.

Being both a friend who wants to encourage bonding as well as a lover of show business, I ask if they might improvise a scene or two.

This is my favorite bench.

It's funny because it's also my favorite bench, and I've actually never seen you sitting here.

But instead of the comedic romp I'd hoped for, I get a sluggish five minute piece of Samuel Bihetti in theater.

So I guess what I'm saying is you'll either have to move to the bench that's beside mine or beside his.

And scene I thought, like, I'm probaly supposed to be like Funny well because he.

Usually his energy. And you're on stage and you're like, you're doing stupid shit and people are laughing, You're not.

Laughing, and in my heart it feels like Christmas morning on Ralph Street. As Tony and Zoe begin to bond.

Yeah, yeah, so I'm playing look at it.

They're having fun, but Tony's still thinking about godfatherhood. Tentatively, he brings it up.

I the godfather Traditionally, Well, godfather's supposed to to write spiritual instruction. And I wasn't there when you were really young, when you were told when you were young, this is Tony, he's your godfather. Do you remember that?

I always knew that you would.

You had this connection to my parents that was really valuable, So by extensionally you'd be valuable to me, even though I didn't know you.

That Well, Yeah, what what can I offer you at this point? From this point onward in a formal fashion, I don't know what you hope for me to provide for you? Is like to provide for me.

Yeah.

Oh, I mean it's a two way street.

I mean I can't just like take so much and not give anything to you.

So that's the point, the point, you know, that's the point, is that I'm here for you.

That is the point with a God child, not so much with a God adult. The children's book is called The Giving Tree, not the Giving and Taking Tree. Children aren't self conscious. They don't find it weird to take without giving anything in return, but adults do. I mean, getting to feel like pushing Tony to reconnect with his God children might have been foolhardy. Tony can't just insert himself into a past he missed out on. And as for the future, Zoe's getting ready to go off to college.

She was a little bit country and he was a little bit rock and roll. That was a song, I'm a little bit countrys I'm a little bit.

As Tony sings both parts of Adannie and Marie duet, Zoe watches him with a big smile on her face. It's clear they really enjoy each other. And the afternoon goes well, But as far as the god parental relationship Tony wants, it feels like it just might be too late.

I'm really impressed. I think I've got a pretty fucking firm alled on things well.

I mean, if you're ever in dire need for like a caregiver when you're old and can't go to the bathroom or something like, I could help you.

Only one godchild to go, Will Tony be a godfather or a toilet father? Is the cat still in the cradle? And if so, will he scratch Tony's eyes out when roused from his godfatherless slumber. We'll find out after these important messages from our sponsors. Tony's first godchild, Paul, didn't have the time for a relationship, and his second godchild, Zoe had outgrown the whole godfather goddaughter thing. That left him one last chance, nine year old Nicholas godchild.

The third Nicholas godchild number three is Nicholas, the son of my cousin.

This one is especially challenging for Tony because, unlike with Paul and Zoe, Tony's not the only godparent in the picture. Tony's ex wife, Natalie was warm and likable. When they started dating. She helped him reconnect with his family so much so though when Nicholas was born, his mom, a cousin Tony wasn't even especially close to, asked them both to be a godparents. Tony and Natalie were together at Nicholas's baptism.

I was holding him and he was really was He was really upset until I took him, and he was quiet the whole time, And everybody was kind of spooked by the fact that he was suddenly so quiet m hm when I was holding him. So there was this whole kind of energy around, like, oh, why is this power Tony has over Nicholas, or why is he so quiet? And everybody seemed to make a kind of a strange

Natalie was the initiator. She's the one who planned the Godparents, stuff like trips with Nicholas to the movies in the museum. Nicholas loved Natalie and related to her and Tony as a unit. So when that unit split up, Tony couldn't bring himself to keep visiting Nicholas and his mom. It reminded him too much of Natalie.

I didn't feel like seeing them. I didn't feel like going to her house because I always went there with Natalie.

But Nicholas's mother continued to reach out. Nicholas really misses you, she'd write. Eventually, she suggested they all get together on neutral ground, her sister's house.

So we did. We set up a surprise dinner, which was about two months ago, and I went over and they were really happy to see me. But at the same time, I noticed Nicholas's first reaction. He was kind of shocked, and I could see that all this stuff went through his eyes, and then he put on this kind of smiley, happy guy thing. I could read it all in his face right away.

And you think that was because Natalie wasn't there. Yeah, Yeah, Tony's afraid that Nicholas won't want a relationship with him that doesn't include Natalie. Afraid that maybe he's not the godparent that Nicholas wants, But he also doesn't want to repeat the same mistakes, so he screws up his courage and goes back over for dinner, hoping he and Nicholas can connect again. But before Tony gets a chance to sit down, the very first words out of Nicholas's mouth.

Naldie, she's She's okay.

If he just couldn't get back with her, that would be a relief.

Why would that be a relief?

I want to see her again, never get.

To see her. Yeah, that's true. I only see you, and that's not an you will see her again. Then she says, I because she's in Australia. Actually she's in New Zealand.

You don't want to be in the places she is, right, Well, I don't want.

To be in New Zealand because it's far away from everything that I do. My mother is here. My mother's an old lady, she's eighty five years old and she needs me. She can't live alone, so I can't go anywhere. So it's finally he doesn't want to be here.

It's over for you.

It's over for you.

Out sausage.

It looks like that, but you never know. I'm not in love with anybody else.

They sit down on the couch and Tony faces the thing that's hardest for him to talk about even with adults, let alone a child.

So are you going to be sad if you don't see her again? A bit? A bit?

I can't, just kidding a lot.

Is there anything that you want to ask me or about Natalie or anything?

Mm hmm.

Did a part of did you feel like a part of your heart broke up to pieces?

Yeah?

You did?

Yeah, very much? A lot.

Do you miss her a lot?

Yeah? I do.

Well you should have. You should have said this, come back whenever you come. You could come back whenever you want, or just say or just say sorry or something.

Yeah, I did, okay, I said sorry, and so did she. She had things to be sorry about too, And then I said come back for a long time, I said, come back whenever you want. And I think I think she's decided not to. I think she's decided.

Maybe it's because Post Canada takes a long time to get a note, really long.

No, But I read her on the internet.

Oh Internet, Oh that makes more sense, I thought you. Brian from postcreada.

Tony's putting away his own feelings and focusing on Nicholas's, which is a very godfatherly thing to do. And Nicholas, for his part, seems to be straining on his emotional tiptoes to try to reach Tony, and together they meet somewhere in the middle.

Do you remember when I, you know, I baptized you, right, yeah, and you were crying, you were really upset. I had to pick you up. When I picked you up, if you went totally quiet, and everybody was like, he's so quiet, and everybody said, you you made him calm, And I thought, that's cool. Maybe that's what godfathers are supposed to do. They're supposed to make people calm and be like everything's okay, don't worry about it, you know. But let me ask

Me to be?

I wanted you to be the same thing as you are right now, which is what you're a really good godfather.

I am.

You're pretty good.

Thanks man. I appreciate that. That's very nice.

You're really good your godfather.

That's awesome, cool man.

And with that, Tony was a godfather because when your godchild tells you you're a godfather. You're a godfather.

Mm hmmm.

When I talked to Tony a couple of weeks later, he had already seen Nicholas again. They went to visit Tony's mom. He says she liked having a kid around to wait on to serve spin a copita.

She's laughing at her heart.

This is the best day that I ever had.

It's only just begun. Now that the first batchers returning to it's goodwill home, Now that the last month's rent is skiming with.

The damage to pos take this moment to just.

S if we met, if we Turke.

Felt around for from things.

Accident recording.

Have you wait to update?

Jonathan Goldstein Fast Time video.

Hey hey, let me just uh let me show you what's happening here.

Uh huh.

So it's recording on the MacBook MIC. You're getting the MacBook MIC. You're getting the iPhone like six inches from my mouth.

You know what you're doing. You know what Jackie Cohen would say, huh fuck you? Well what she say she would be like, look at you, you think you need three microphones?

Well, you have to say is so important.

Because everyone wants to hear what you have to say.

Yeah, yeah, it was always as high by the way, say hi to you so nice. I told her i'd be talking to you. And how is Zoe.

Great?

I mean, she's you know, she's twenty eight now, oh my, and and she's been dating a nice Greek boy since then more or less. You're kidding, No, I'm not kidding. And he's great, he's awesome. She didn't move far from home. She has like a great job, and I was sure she would move to Montreal like all her friends did and everybody moved to Montreal, but she never did. And I admire that because she's really building a strong foundation and she's very happy.

That's wonderful. I'm so glad to hear that.

And Nicholas is like amazing. I think I've told you. He's a track athlete, like a star athlete. Really yeah, he's graduated in high school. He's yeah, and he's like coaching me now, and he's just turned into a really amazing like resilient, like deals with all kinds of hardship, really maturely like the total opposite of me. Like he like, I don't I don't know, he says, he gets spiritual guidance from me, But I don't know what that would be or if he's just blowing smoke up my ass.

Old, that's you guys have a special connection.

But that that's we do. We laugh a lot, like we have a good relationship. We have a really good time.

That's so nice. So how are you? I mean, you look well, thanks, so do you?

Oh?

Well, you don't have to say that, but you do.

I mean, basically, I'm okay. I'm a three and three and a half months into the stay here, which is going to be a year.

Wait a second, So why don't you explain what here is?

Right?

Of course I have to do that. Here is the Clear Sky Meditation and Study Center. It's like a Buddhist based retreat center in the rocky mountains of Canada, and it's where where I live with twelve other people who are permanent, well long term residents, and I'm trying it out for a year. I'm living in like kind a pseudo monastic situation. And there's deer everywhere and they just stand like ten feet away and like stare at you before they dart off. There's coyotes and like howling like

Could you just explain a little about how you found out about this place.

Yeah, I owe this to my former mother in law, Natalie's mom. Actually, just a couple of years into my relationship with Natalie, I was looking for a place to meditate and she picked up a flyer from this place she used to go to yoga and said, this guy is supposed to be good. And then when I showed up, I realized, oh, this is traditional like religious Buddhism. And my first reaction was I I no, I don't want I didn't I came to the wrong place. This is

And so, what what is the path that you're that you're on right now? You're thinking you're staying there for a year, but that is in service to possibly staying there forever.

Possibly anything is possible right now, like at this moment in time, anything is possible. I don't know what I'm going to do and you're comfortable, Well not really, but yes. Also, I mean I don't know what choice to I have, Like, I don't want to live in Montreal. When I started taking care of my mom when she got.

Sick, we should say that. Yeah, in the time since since the episode, your mother has passed away. Yeah, and that sort of both freed you and kind of untethered you from from the city from Montreal.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, So my mom I was diagnosed with dementia right before COVID and it was it was horrifying. The onset was horrifying because you don't know what it means. You don't know what it's going to mean to take care of somebody who's demented. You have the worst I had the worst kind of ideas in my head, but it turned out to be. Yeah, my stint as a parent. You know, the closest I'm ever going to get to being a parent is I think it's taking care of my mom for a few years while she was unable

That's a nice way to see it.

Yeah, yeah, I drew a lot of strike from that. It was just a freedom. And by the end, I mean, it's weird taking care of somebody who's going to die as opposed to growing up to be, you know, an adult does kind of go to school and have a whole life. It's weird. There's a strangeness to that. But in a way, I feel like I growed up, like

You want all the regular things. It's it's just you're taking a rather unconventional route to get to those things.

Yeah. I think it has to do with with knowing what you're gonna do, right, So, like if you're not sure that there's a container for for you in life, like whether there's a job or it's a family, or like a very particular career track which is very involving, which has steps which you can follow, Like you're kind of free floating, You're you're you're in free fall, and now it's like kindergarten all over again, like what next? What's next? And like where's my money? Like I'm like,

But is that exciting also at all?

Yeah?

It is, It's very exciting. That's good.

Yea, Tony, I'm so sorry. I don't have to run off. I'm I'm looking at the time. I could talk to you all night, but I'm supposed to take Augie. He's got a basketball game.

Give my love to AUGI and Emily and and tell him I say hi and we'll.

Talk so him, I will, I will Man good to see you. Okay, you be well.

Okay bye for now, bye bye.

Thanks to everyone who helped put the episode together, and we'll be back once again with another exciting update in two weeks. Also, we're starting a free newsletter. I know what you're thinking. You're thinking finally, Yes, that's right, not just audio, but now in the form of news and a letter sent directly to your inbox. And who knows, maybe you'll even hear from a producer or to Khalila Holt.

Yeah, you probably will.

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