2026 Update: Brandon

Pushkin. Hello, Hello, welcome to the studio.

Are you going to tell people who I am? Before that?

Even I was going to apologize for the smell of egg salad. I don't know why it smells like egg salad in here. It's not like I was eating an egg salad sandwich or anything.

But what's those little pieces of yolk that are stuck all over your beard?

Nothing?

That's total circumstantial evidence. You can't hang someone for circumstantial evidence. I did see Malcolm Gladwell exiting the studio strutting around with an egg salad sandwich pocon add of his fanny pack like he owned the joint. So there's some circumstantial evidence. You might want to investigate, you intrepid reporter. You so hello, Stevie Lane, producer, Yes, of.

The of the episode that we're about to listen to Brandon. Yeah, Brandon, I will say, And he doesn't even know this. He's not even gonna know this till he listens to this. Yeah, one of my all time favorite guests. I think, really, yeah, I don't know. He just had such a nice attitude, and I feel like I feel like the two of you had a really lovely rapport.

Yeah, and it was like an example of how sometimes a small question can have like a lot of emotional impact and can just really echo through the years. And you know, with these updates, a lot of times I start off by saying that the subject of the episode has gone through a lot of changes. But in the case with Brandon, I will say that change seems like too slight a word. I would say that Brandon has gone through some transformations.

Hmm.

So here's Brandon.

Yeah, it's a fun one.

It is a fun one. And after the episode, if you stick around, I'm going to catch up with Brandon and we're gonna see who Brandon has become since we last spoke, Jackie, I have some good news. Well, it seems like there's some interest in turning the Heavyweight podcast into a TV show. So I was just calling to see who maybe you know who you want to play, Jackie. I was thinking, you know, maybe Rita Marino, Don John No one's gonna watch your show.

Baby, what did you just say? You heard this?

Wait, I'm confused on two counts. A that you would say something so cruel and that b you would punctuate it with babe. You know a lot of people believe in this project. Why would you laugh at that?

A lot of people believe in this project.

From Gimblet Media. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is Heavyweight. Today's episode Brandon right after the break.

Yeah, we'll just roll in there and see what's going on.

This is Brandon. He's thirty three years old in wearing a suit and string tie. His wife, Megan is in a sun dress, and together they're about to enter the New Palestine High School prom. Megan is the school's our teacher, but tonight she's chaperoning with Brandon as her date. She introduces him to the other teachers. At a certain point, they're interrupted by the announcement of prompt King and Queens.

A students.

While Megan congratulates her students and makes small talk with her colleagues, Brandon wanders off and observes the kids. Some are dancing, some are lined up for the photo booth. There are kids talking to teachers and others gossiping among themselves. But then Brandon's gaze lands on another subset, those aimless

Through middle school and junior high I had a lot of bullying problems.

That was kind of an easy target.

There were a number of things that made him run.

First, I'm like still a big guy now, but I was. I was at my biggest in high school, heaviest.

Second, Brandon tried too hard to fit in, Like the time he shaved a Nike swoosh into the back of his head.

I just thought, like sports, that's that's cool.

So it made your head look like a running shoe exactly.

Yeah.

I sat in front of this kid named Cyril, and he said it looked like a hockey stick, and that was enough that everyone was like, that's a hockey stick, that is not a Nike swoosh.

Finally, Brandon was a Coda, a child of deaf adults. His family attended a deaf church and spends a lot of time in the deaf community. He says he was brought up with different social.

Norms like volume, like volume is not a concern around deaf people and in a deaf environment, and then of course it is around hearing people, So.

What does that mean?

Like any examples, Yeah, like school, where it's like time to be quiet. I was just constantly talking to myself or just vocalizing my thoughts, you know.

Then in middle school, Brandon's parents divorced. There was less space for him, less attention paid to him. He drew inward.

I think I wanted to put off a harder like you can't hurt me exterior than I really had on the inside. So wearing hot topic clothes, spiky things, black clothes, and trying to just like keep your hoodie on and get through the day.

And for the most part, Randon succeeded in going unnoticed until the spring of his senior year. Brandon was sitting at the back of a classroom during a free period, eavesdropping on a conversation from across the room. Some classmates were talking about a prom, and among the group was a girl named Ali. She was going on about what a great night it was going to be, how excited she was.

She had like long blonde hair with highlights, big features, like big eyes, She had a big smile.

Hmm.

Yeah, Like when she smiled, she looked really happy, hmm. And I think she kind of pulled me into the conversation by directing some of those questions at me, like are you going to prom?

Who are you going to prom with?

Brandon had no intention of going. He hadn't a girlfriend nor any prospects for a date, and he was confused about why Ali was talking to him. Brandon says they'd barely ever spoken. They were from totally different social worlds. Ali was in student government. She was popular and beautiful.

She was just really well put together, clean and you hmm, No, that's not a word I've used to describe myself in high school. I mean like I would like smell my clothes before I before I put them on in the morning, you know, like I.

Got dressed from the floor, okay, in my bedroom?

No, I mean yeah. And yet Ali kept throwing questions at him. Why wasn't he going? If he did go, who would he take? Brandon answered in monosyllables, hoping she turned back to her friends and leave him alone, but instead she rose from her seat and began striding towards him.

Inside, I was like, uh, like inflamed, do you know what an?

I mean?

Like my heart my heart rate was rising.

With each question, Ali moved closer and closer until she was sitting at the desk in front of him, facing him. Then she did something that still flummixes Brandon fifteen years later.

She just kind of outright said, take me to prom, Like, go to prom, take me, Let's go together. I immediately had questions, questions like, why, why me?

What's going on?

I guess I was skeptical, this is some kind of trick. Hmm, you know, why would you be asking me this other than to setting me up for a punchline or something like that.

But no punchline really came, so I just agreed.

On the big night, Brandon met up with Ali and her friends for a pre dance dinner at her friend Jen's house. He was in the fancier part of town. Brandon showed up wearing his rented suit with a corsage and a bright blue necktie that matched Ali's stress. Before leaving to the dance, everyone lined up for a group picture. Did you like just feel like saying, why the heck am I here right? What happened? Was this a mistake?

Yeah?

Yeah, I would have loved an answer to that question, but I would never have thought, couldn't fathom saying it.

You know, do you still have that prom photo that you guys took?

No?

To be honest, I'm not even sure I ever got it, So I don't think I ever even saw that picture.

Hmm.

What do you think you would see in that photo?

I mean, just imagining it makes me laugh?

Yeah, why.

It would be a line of like beautiful high schoolers, you know, and like me. There just feels like if your eyes set on me for a little too long, that maybe you'd be able to see that it didn't fit in.

Ali and her friends looked like the girls in those movies about prom, and those girls always had guys who gave them the time of their lives. For Brandon, a sense of duty kicked in.

It felt like a huge responsibility. It was like, this is going to be a big deal in Ali's life forever, and I have a big responsibility as her date to make sure that I live up to this position.

Hmm.

I was really really nervous.

Did you guys did you nally slow dance? I pretty feel like I feel like when I asked these questions, I feel like Hannibal Lecter, Yeah, like I'm asking these questions from a straight jacket in a cell. Did you slow dance? Did you slow dance?

I do remember slow dancing because I remember thinking, like, it's funny that in TV shows and in movies this is such a big deal. But it's just standing like you're kind of just like stepping slightly. Yeah, Like that's not hard. Like I was in like a hip hop dance crew and youth group. You know that was hard.

Wait, you were in a sorry repeat that you were in a hip hop dance youth group.

What Yeah, So the church I went to was just like through a lot of performances and.

Hip hop dance that happened.

Did you ever at any point break out any of your Christian youth group hip hop move on the dance floor? Do you do anything like on the floor like where you spin on your back or you didn't You didn't want to ruin the rental, wanted to get your deposit At the prom, Brandon popped for the Lord and locked

Kind of felt like a resolution of what all of grade school was like for me. You know, I never felt safe enough to bring my true self into that space. But like, dancing around at prom with your peers is like one of the most vulnerable things you can do, and it came out on the other end of it, Okay.

At the end of the prom, Ali and all her friends headed to one of their classmates houses for the after party, but having never been to a house party, Brandon decided not to go. Do you remember saying goodbye to Ali?

No?

And then what happened after that? Do you recall speaking with her singer in school after that night.

I had to have because we both went back to school, But I don't have any specific memories of talking to her again.

Prom is supposed to stay with you for the rest of your life, and for Brandon it has, but eclipsing the dancing, the music, the last night out with his peers is a lingering question.

Which was like, whind me out of all the people that you could be going with.

Maybe it was one of those situations where all of these people out there are thinking, well, Ali's taken, She's totally going to problem with somebody already, I'll have to ask somebody else, you know, and then leaves her without a prom date. If that was what was going on, maybe maybe she just had a breakup. Maybe I was part of a charity case.

So you want to ask her why why did she pick you?

Yeah, exactly, I want to know that. Yeah.

Without her, I wouldn't have gone to problem. It would have just been another thing on my list of things I regret from high school, you know, But it's not on that list. It's on the shorter list of things that I feel. Okay, Yeah, I'd like to think her.

I'm just nervous, which is why Brandon has reached out to me. If you get nervous, I mean, I can always jump in.

Sure.

I've just assumed I'm going to be coming along to chaperone after the break I chaperonn Brandon back to high school. Before Brandon can ask Ali the question that's been on his mind since senior year, we first need to track her down. Her last name is Schmotz, Schmutz. I'm just making that up. Brandon's part of a Facebook group for his high school graduating class, and Ali's a member of the group as well. Does that mean that you can have a better chance of messaging or through that group?

I mean, like, if I were going to use the group, it would be making a post for my whole graduating classes.

Might as well go big, like say, hey, I'm just going to put this out there to everybody.

Yeah, if you're not Ali, please don't read this.

But Ali, I just want to say, hey, hit me up. Here are my digits. Everybody else, just lose this number. Maybe Facebook friend her.

I could do that.

Yeah, I'd have to change my name on Facebook. My name hasn't been my real name for a long time.

What's what's the name that you operate under? Oak Tree? Just oak Tree, just oak Tree. I can't even find you as brand. I'd have to look up oak Tree.

That's right. I was kind of playing with what kinds of words it lets me have as a name.

Can you change your name from oak Tree to Brandon?

Probably a good idea.

Then you don't have to start with a whole rigmarole about how like my name's not really oak Tree. This is Brandon, by the way, you remember from high school. And so the mighty oak Tree sheds his leaves and his name and the mighty Brandon sends Ali a friend request. A week later, Brandon texts with an update. Ali has accepted his friendship. Now he just needs to send her a message. Okay, so you've crafted something already.

Yeah you could you read it? Sure? Yeah?

Hi Ali? Good so far casual?

Okay? Cool? Go ahead?

Yeah, Hi Ali, maybe you'll remember me we were prompt dating.

As Brandon reads me a draft, I focus my Keen podcast producer's ear.

By my recollection. It was your idea for us to go to prom together.

Now let me pause, sorry, let me hit pause there. Yeah, like the way that you're underlining your idea, you're not actually underlining that though I did italicize it. It was your idea for us to go to prom together. Is that what you're saying?

Yeah? It sounds accusatory out loud.

Yeah, so me, Yeah, maybe we'll do italicize that part. Okay, keep going.

Uh.

Brandon tells Ali that he still thinks about their prom. He says he wants to talk to her about it. Would you be up for that? Okay? Okay, let's take a look at this here. Okay, so maybe you'll remember. As Brandon and I pour over the message, a worry suddenly pops into my head. I wonder if there's a way to work in the fact that you're married, you know.

How about just I'm married? But I'll just start with it. Hey, listen, I'm taking.

Speaking as a married man. Me and my wife were wondering. That is my wife and I. We were wondering the other night after making love.

Yeah's need to be doing good work, and I hope you're well.

All the best.

Once we've crafted the perfect message, Brandon readies himself to hits end.

Should I go ahead and do it?

Yeah, let's do it. Go ahead, HiT's end.

Enter, it's sent.

Congratulations, thank you. A week later, Allie writes back, she's willing to talk, So that's good.

It's a positive response.

I look at you. You're you're you're giddy, You're giddy with expectation.

Yeah. Can you tell us to keep wiping my face and touching my eyes?

Would it be fun to do it on a video call? Sure?

Sure? Yeah?

Do you still have the suit that you wore to your prom I'll be like I never took it off. Any things that you want me to bring up, just kind of like conversationally, awards or any upcoming projects, that you want to promote or.

No, keep it organic whatever cool cool.

I can keep it organic cool.

Yeah.

Hello, Hello, I'm getting a little bit of static on your end.

Yeah. Hello better.

Yeah.

On the day of the video call with Ali, Brandon and I get on early and wait.

It feels like I'm getting back into the psyche of my high school self. Like I'm hey, hi, Allie, Hi, how are you good?

Allie smiles a big smile full of big white teeth. She's wearing a blue patterned blouse that matches the blue of her nails.

I'll just tell you what I've seen on your profile. You live in Carmel, and you have a baby.

I have two daughters, a three year old and a two year old.

Awesome, they're right here.

On my wall.

Brandon and Alley catch up.

The Midwest is just such a nice place to raise a feat. It's recruiting, but there's like a sales element. And then of course the grandparents are here.

Yeah. I figured that was part of it. Just a family. It's a huge reason they're.

Always willing to.

Brandon's question hasn't gotten any easier to ask since high school. In fact, it's gotten harder. After a pause, of a few minutes or even a few days, one can feign casualness. By the way, why do you choose me? But to ask after fifteen years, there's no way to buy the way your way through it. But eventually, so.

Can I ask you some questions?

Absolutely?

I guess first, like, what are your memories of me in high school?

Yeah? So I was trying to think of this. Did we ever have any classes together?

Probably not?

Yeah, so we met senior year, right.

I think so.

Allie doesn't remember much, but one thing she does remember is that day in the back of the classroom.

We were talking about prom, you know, as seniors do, and I think you had you were like not into going to prom?

Right, You're like, no, I'm not going to go.

Yeah, I remember like you had to really spell it out. You were like are you going to prom?

You're not?

Okay? Like if you were, would you be going with someone?

No?

Okay?

And then eventually you were like you and me can go to prom? Like why don't we go to prom?

You know?

And then Brandon asks this question sort of.

Like at any point did you consider having having someone else as a date?

Well, I would have been totally comfortable going by myself, so I don't have any memories of thinking like I'm gonna ask Brandon and then if that doesn't work, I'm gonna ask so and so they're just kinda like I'm asked Brandon.

That is surprising, I guess because I thought like that it was like spur of the moment, like your friends were hearing this for the first time too.

No. No, I was very obsessed with my friends, so I'm sure that I ran it by them. So you passed the friends test.

Brandon grows quiet. It wasn't a prank. It wasn't pity. Ali planned to ask him. What's more, she wasn't going to take no for an answer.

I do remember, like you did say no. I remember you saying no, and I'm like, oh, yeah, but give him a day. I'm gonna make him go. He's gonna go with me. But yeah, you were just surprised by the fact that I asked you.

I mean, yeah, definitely. Hmm.

Alie pauses trying to find the right words.

You made me laugh a lot, and I remember that you were just, you know, fun to be around and goofy, and you smiled at me a lot. I remember that, you know, like I liked being around you, and if.

I made a joke, you would laugh at it.

You know.

It made me feel like I was funny, which is a great quality.

You got me a corsage.

I remember that.

I remember not expecting you to get me a porsage. I'm thinking that was really nice. I do remember that. Isn't that silly? But like, I don't remember a lot, but I remember that.

So you know, I'm going to be a little blunt here because uh, sure was there anything else to it?

Like?

What was there an element of something romantic?

So we probably flirted, right, But I don't know.

I mean, friendship is really just the main feeling that I can recall.

I'm not saying that there wasn't you know. I mean, I don't know. You're a teenager, You're feeling all kinds of things. I'm sure there were moments where I was like, oh, is this a thing?

You know?

Is this turning into this.

That I think that I would have found that really hard to believe as a kid, you know, that would have gone against the narrative of school and what people thought of me that I had.

I don't know. I guess to some extent I knew that we were.

I want to be honest, I knew that there was some people were surprised by the fact that we were going together, right. I do remember one time when I told some dude in my physics class, I can't remember that is going with and they're like, wait, what And I was like yeah, and they're like that's weird, and I'm like, you're weird.

Well. Brandon remembers himself as a misfit. Ali remembers someone who is different than a lot of the other guys. In high school. Brandon made rye jokes, he was sweet and self deprecating. She remembers things that Brandon doesn't. She says there was one time Brandon did a whole monologue about how he found it hard to drive because of his fear of hitting birds. In other words, Ali asked him to prom for the one reason Brandon never considered. She just wanted to go with him.

Did you have a good time, eproum, Because I really wanted that for you. I spent a lot of time thinking like, that's my role on the date?

Here I go.

You know, yeah, Ali grows thoughtful.

I guess I didn't even think that, because I mean I talked you into it, right, So then here you are kind of not stuck, but like, yeah, feeling like you wanted to make it special for me because I was the one that was all about it. Yeah, I guess I never even thought about that. I just think, Brandon, you're just so much more thoughtful, you know, just thoughtful

Yeah, I honestly didn't even expect to be thanked from you for anything. I feel like I have to thank you because there's something really simple and superficial about this. But it felt really real that I finished high school as a person who went to prom. I got to go, I got to have a fun time and forget the misfit feelings I was having.

That's awesome. That's so awesome to hear you say that. That's really nice.

My life started to really just like blossom and grow. I guess from like the moment high school was over. And I guess, I guess I can't say for certain what that part of my life would have looked like had I not had the prom experience, but I can't say it was totally irrelevant.

Was it out of that and kind of like into that period that you ended up meeting your wife Megan.

Yeah, it was like that phase of life when Megan I met her.

Dress is so cute. She looks beautiful. This is Megan Brandon's wife looking at a photo of Valley from prom night. She looks amazing, she looks great. After getting off the video call, Ali sent the group photo from prom, Megan studies it while seated beside Brandon.

It's also like, so cute to see you flanked by these Like I mean, I'm sorry, they're in high school, so I don't real feel like I should be calling them hot babes. But you know what I mean, Like from the high school perspective, you lucky looking man.

But as Brandon looks at the photo, I imagine it isn't his day to the other kids that he's focused on so much as he's focused on the big guy in the middle and all the baggage that guy was carrying.

There's a lot of weird stuff about like my weight and growing up, like dieting, and like my mom like putting me out of scale, and it was like, you're over this line. You know you're unattractive, and.

What does it make you to feel like Megan to hear that, it makes.

Me feel very protective for sure.

I think if we don't, we really really get into squabbles. But if ever we do, what really disarms me is like thinking about that like little like young Brandon. I feel like that it happened not even that long ago.

But Brandon no longer has to navigate them alone. A few weeks ago, before chaperoning the prom with Megan, Brandon went to the tailor. He wanted to wear his wedding suit and needed her to let it out.

She was like down on her knees, like looking at it, pulling the pants in different ways, and then said, okay, go ahead and open the pants up so I can see how much we can let out. And I don't know why, but I wasn't wearing underwear. I didn't wear underwear to the tailor. I guess I didn't think that she was going to Brandon be asking that. So yeah, she asked me to open the pants and I was like right now, and she's like, yep, go ahead, and I just said, I can't do that right now. If

It was awful. It was awful.

Brandon was spiraling, So as soon as he left, he sent Megan a text at school asking her to call him.

And when she called me, I was fixing a flat. I got a flat tire on the way home. It was just like a shitty afternoon. So I was fixing a flat and telling her what it was like at the tailor, and then we hung up, and then she texted me later and just said.

Like I love you and I love the way your body looks, and I don't think it's weird that you didn't wear underwear. I don't wear underwear either.

It was just like a you know what I mean? She was supportive. That fixed it almost immediately for me.

Hmm, well, I taught him to go commando, so I feel partially responsible.

What did you make of Brandon's question that he's had through the years, Why did Ali invite him to the prom in the first place?

It didn't have to be a mystery. It makes perfect sense to me that somebody who looks like Ali could like the person who she's standing next to.

You.

Brandon says the biggest difference between his two proms was that with Megan, he didn't spend the whole night wondering why the person by his side had chosen him. He's just happy she did.

I was comfortable the whole time.

How could you not be comfortable? I mean, you weren't wearing underpants, He held it.

Now that the fern Atures returned into its goodwill home, now that the last month's rant is scheming with the damage to possibly take this.

Moment to decide, Brandon, Hey, Hello, Hi, I can't believe it's been.

Over four years.

Last time I spoke to you, you were speaking to me from what did you call it? Your man cave, your.

I didn't remember telling you. But it's called the chill zone, the chill zone.

That's right, it's right there. Wait, so you're not in the chill zone. No, I'm in the office, okay, Because the chill zone is for chilling. It's not for recording.

Well, it's changing its purpose now. It's for the bedtime routine with the new baby.

Well, you really buried the lead on that one.

So you have a baby, Yeah, we have a baby.

Wow.

Yeah, it's so exciting. She's growing and learning so fast. She's noticing things.

Does she like pulling on your mustache?

She hasn't found my mustache in that way yet. But she's really into containers, just putting containers in containers, taking something out of a container, putting in a different one. And she can do that for like an hour, and I can just sit there and watch her and try not to help if she's trying to put something too big and too small container, you know, just watching her.

Yeah, it's so exciting, wonderful. That's so nice to hear. Well, that's that's the headline. Are there have there been any other changes since we last spoke?

Hm? I actually listened to the Brandon episode of Heavyweight yesterday just to have it be fresh in my mind.

Yeah, And what was that like?

Uh? It's fun.

I feel like when I was first hearing it, I cringe and I cringed a lot less yesterday.

Well, why do you think that is time? I think? I mean I feel a lot different than I did four years ago.

How in what ways?

About a year before Robin was born, Meg and I started going to this meeting. It's like we'd get together with these people and do something called chigong. It's just like breathing and moving. It's kind of like tai chi, but kind of exercisey. And then there's a meditation portion. And there's this concept called no pretending that we would be like, are we pretending with ourselves in our minds? Do we pretend when we talk to other people? And

Were there certain things that you feel like were that you were pretending at.

I'm trying to think of a good way to explain that or oh, you know, one day I realized I was like, if I'm walking up to the door of a gas station, we're going into the gas station, and there's a stranger walking in at the same time, and it seems like we might arrive at more or less at the same time.

I was fast to jump out of the way. You know first, do you first? And I don't do that sort of thing as much.

You feel less apologetic for just being around existing, Yeah.

Yeah, less about finding a place where I can fit to disturb other people as little as possible, and more now feeling like I am of I'm actually here, I'm a I'm not just smoke, you know. I exist here and I'm moving around and I can do and say what I want and other people will react, however, they will react, and that doesn't mean I should have said or done something different.

Yeah.

So I feel more.

Confident, more, I guess, just in tune with what I actually think and what I'm actually feeling. And I feel like a much different person than I did four years ago, in a good way.

Yeah.

Do you think the Brandon of today would have pursued that story? I?

Yeah, I do. Think so. Yeah.

Yeah, there's the branden of today where underwear.

I've got a couple pairs for special occasions.

Is this a special occasion?

No, it isn't.

Okay, No, you have a twenty year high school reunion coming up.

This is the year for my twentieth reunion. Yeah, if it's happening, are you going to go? I would love to go.

Have you been in touch with Ali?

No?

I have not, but I wondered if I might see her at this reunion. And you know, I wanted to say before we go. When I was listening to the episode yesterday, I felt grateful. It brought me kind of an outside perspective on that period of my life, which I wouldn't have had without that or you know, and I don't think I would have reached out to Ali on my own. And it was a good lesson to learn that despite what I was going through as a teenager, that I was still me. That's the big takeaway I

Well, thank you, thank you for saying that and for lending yourself to it so wholeheartedly. Will you say hi to Meg for me? I will Brandon, it was really nice to see you.

Thank you.

Have a good day you too, you too, enjoy your baby, I will.

I will.

Thanks to everyone who originally put this episode together. We'll be back with another update in two weeks time. And if you want, you can sign up for our free newsletter. It's absolutely free and it's available at patreon dot com slash Heavyweight Stevie. Yeah, what do we have in store in the newsletter?

We got some recommendations, things that we've liked, and there's hyperlinks.

Yes, parenthetically, I don't know that I've been hyperlinking properly in the newsletter, like you can actually like hyperlink from a word, right, Yeah, that I put the full r L. I'm old school, that's right. It's only recently that I've started pronouncing at URL. I used to just pronounce it as earle. Do you know what RL stands for? Ooh, you really love our newsletter? URL our newsletter.

I'm speaking of The URL for the newsletter is.

It's at patreon dot com. Slash Heavyweight