You're tuned into Heat Check with Trista Quick.
On this episode of The Heat Check, we have a special guest on the show today, James Herbert of CBS Sports. James has been a feature writer for a very long time was kind enough to carve out an entire hour where we delve into the process of writing about the league, how he chooses his subjects, and what he learned from profiling such under the radar stars such as Jose Alvarado, Scottie Barnes, the superstars like Shay Gilgus Alexander and Pascal Siaka.
It was a fascinating conversation. I learned a ton can't wait to get into it. So do me a favor, my man, drop that beat first and foremost. Again, thanks for coming on the show. I think you've got one of the funniest feeds on Twitter. Thank you, one of the most. It's a cool feed, right, It's got all this stuff. I try to keep up on it, even some things that make it on your feet. I'm like, oh man, I haven't seen that before. I think NBA Twitter is the best part of Twitter, you know, one
of the best at least. What do you think happens to that community. If tour goes.
Away, I'm terrified. I have no idea.
I don't know where I'm going to go and talk about basketball with people who I don't like know personally. I mean, I've got like group text, I think like everybody's got I got my work Slack and some other stuff like that.
But like, I don't know.
I don't want to be on like NBA readit all day, but maybe I'll have it to be.
Maybe I'll have to learn how to use Discord.
I have no idea. I never even installed the app. I'm honestly like, I'm not sure. Like I was watching last night, everybody was talking about I mean, I was watching games, and then I was also listening to one of those Twitter spaces. She had like twenty thousand people on it talking about what might happen generally, people talking about moving to Masdon and all of this stuff. That's
another thing I've I've yet to try. And I'm just thinking, like if that's if this is the end, that it sucks, because, like I mean, a lot of my professional opportunities have come directly because of Twitter.
I met my wife on NBA Twitter. Like that's why I live in Brooklyn.
That's why I'm here, Like yeah, like no, fuck, this is like yeah, like so I don't. I mean, on the one hand, like, well, at least like Twitter was around and so that could happen, so maybe it served its purpose for me.
Even on the other hand, like this actually is meaningful to me. No, it's stupid.
I'm mostly just saying dumb stuff and making jokes and whatever, but like it is like genuinely been a huge part of my adult life.
I think I have a love hate relationship with Twitter because so much of it is toxic. But then when you realize it could just go away completely, you're like, well, where am I going to make fun of Lebron like for lying, Like where are the memes gonna go? I wonder if we're all sort of feeling that that. I guess it's like a pre loss. You know, we haven't lost it yet, but we kind of feel like we're going to, and we're not really sure how we're going
to connect if it does go away. One of my favorite feature writers in the NBA, how do you how do you go about picking a subject? Like could you share some shed some light on your process of how you write a story?
Sure.
I mean part of it is just like if there's a player I find interesting for whatever reason, and I feel like there's a story to be told that's like a little bit different, or I haven't maybe I just don't know that much about the guy, or maybe I know some things I'm curious about other things, Like I'll then go and start researching and seeing what other people have written and saying like is there something I can add to this? Is there something that I don't know?
Then I'll try to pursue it. A lot of times, it's not much more complicated than like I like watching this player, and I think I could do a feature
on him. Well, Like the most recent one I did was Jose Alvarado, and like last year, I think, like a lot of people, I didn't really know anything about him when he first like got in the Pelicans rotation, and like when I first saw his name, like he wasn't somebody I was paying attention to before the draft he went undrafted, but I saw him play I was like, well, this guy, like he plays so freaking hard, Like he
is really fun to watch. And then as the season went on, it was like, all right, like this guy is a super fan favorite. He seems like he has an awesome personality, he like clearly has a cool story, and I was.
Like, I'm I'm definitely profiling him one day, like I just kind of like said that to myself.
It didn't end up happening last year, but like the Pelicans were like literally the first game on the regular season schedule here in Brooklyn, and I knew. I was like, I'm gonna request him and try to make it happen and then I'll go from there. And that was that was like sort of a passion project.
Like nobody, like I.
Didn't have an editor assigning me a Jose Alvarado story, but like I just wanted to write about Jose Alverado because I like watching him play and I thought there was something to be done there. Other times, it could just be that like I've watched and I've noticed something about their game that is interesting, and like they've been written about one way, and I thought, and I think I got add to it by focusing on something different or.
Like whatever it is.
There's a lot of ways you can like start, but I think you like it has to start from a place of like genuine curiosity and it has to start from a place of like I want to do this, like.
I want because if you're going to like do one.
Of these and write like a fairly long one rather than just like just like bust out a column or whatever, which like I do as well. But if I'm going to invest the time to do a profile, like I want to actually find this person interesting. I don't want it to feel like it's a slog and I'm just doing it because it's my job.
Like, these things are hard, some of them.
Like last year, I wrote a story that went up like right at the end of the regular season on Scottie Barnes and the first interview I did was like the first week of the season and it just it. I didn't think it was going to take that long, but that just kind of happened. And sometimes it is like sometimes it's literal months.
How come is it just because you have to it takes you down a direction. Then you have to find sort of people who would you know, help shed light on the thing that you're delving into, like for example, with Alvarado, you had to speak with Fred van Fleet Or is that the reason why or why does the writing process take so long?
Yeah?
Well, part of it is probably on me and probably shouldn't take that.
Long in some of these instances where it's taking you like months and months. But yeah, usually it's related to access.
Usually it's related to like I don't think I can tell this story properly without getting like maybe a follow up interview with the player, or maybe it's an old coach or something that I haven't talked to you yet, or a teammate that I want to get when the team comes back to town.
Or whatever it is.
But usually, yeah, usually it's just like I have like I'll start transcribing my stuff and look at what I got and try to outline it, and I'm like I'm almost there, but like I need a little bit more. And then the other part of it is sometimes it's just I'm working on multiple.
Things at the same time, and I'm.
Busy with other stuff, and like the like not super urgent, not super time time sensitive profile is the thing that ends up getting pushed back because if I have to like go to a i don't know, like go to a NETS practice and write about the latest Kyrie incident, then like that's what I'll do that day instead of like making a phone call about hose Alvarado or whatever.
Right, Well, I wanted to kind of mention some of the the articles you wrote that I wanted to hear a little bit more about. You mentioned the Scottie Barnes article and that was published on April eighth, before he won Rookie of the Year, and you said, you know, you started working on it the first week this season. What did you find interesting about him? And what did you find interesting or memorable that didn't make the piece?
Mm hmm, like every thing is my first answer. Like, I was captivated by Scotty Barnes. I was interested in him before the draft because I read a few like that was the other thing was like it was sort of intimidating working on that one. So one of the reasons that took a while was I had all these like great long form Scotty Barnes profiles that like I was competing with, Like, if I was going to put something out there, I had to have some stuff that
wasn't in the other ones. But I read those stories and I was like, this kid is not like a normal you know, depending on when they were written, eighteen year old, nineteen year old, whatever, it.
Was kid like he.
Was a guy that was talking about like being a Magic Johnson fan. He was a guy who, I mean, he was picked forth in the draft, but was coming off the bench for most of the season at Florida State and was like happy with it and not complaining
about it. He was a guy that oftentimes when people were kind of trying to explain why he was viewed so highly spite these like supposed flaws in his game, like why, Okay, this guy is not necessarily a one on one scorer, yet based on what he's done in college, he's not necessarily ever going to be like a go to guy and whatever this is like to be clear
the scouting reports at the time. I think he showed more of that in the NBA, but at the time it was like, but he is so good at everything else, and people love him and he wants to make guys better, and people just like you talk to him and you believe in him. Like a lot of the reasons for why people thought highly of him, a lot of the reasons for why the Raptors were confident taking him and taking him by the way when like they knew it was going to be seen by a lot of people
as a huge risk as frankly the wrong pick. A lot of people immediately said it was the wrong pick, but they were betting on the upside, and the upside was based on, yeah, he's this like six seven six eight guy with like a super long wing span, and he's like really agile and skilled and all that. But
I think more than that, it was the person. It was like, we think he has the super high ceiling and we think he's likely to get there because of who he is, and all of that was like just a little bit different to me, and I just kind of wanted to know more about him. I want to know exactly what, you know, his old coaches had to say about what he was like. He had an interesting family story, which I didn't end up actually being that big of a part of my story, but yeah, it
was kind of it was a combination. Sometimes I'm drawn more to like the backstory and sometimes I'm drawn more to like the way they play on the court.
But for me, it was both.
For him, like I remember watching when the preseason last year and being like, every time he's on the court, the raptors are more interesting to me, and every time he goes to the bench, I'm a little.
Like like let's get Scottie back in there.
Like part of that was I think he was new, but part of that was like he is like a really exciting player to watch.
I was just drawn to that guy, Like immediately, what did.
You find in your sort of story search process that you found even more interesting than what you had originally thought.
I think with Scotty he had this combination of I put this like he doesn't come off as arrogant, like he he talks a lot about you know, what's best for the team, just want to do with the coach asks them. Like even in my research, I remember finding like a game winner he had hit at Florida State, and he like basically didn't want to give himself any
credit for making the game winner. While at the same time, like if you talk to people around him and even if you ask him like like direct questions about his own game, Like he has this belief in himself and this confidence that is like not it's it's not humble, it's not it's like he believes that he belongs and he always kind of has and I think he's had a vision for himself honestly since he was in high school of like I'm going to get to the NBA, and when I get there, I'm not going to be
just another NBA player. There's another story that came out after mine that I was jealous of, where it was like a list of his like affirmations and goals, and like one of them was like, I want to be the best player on the court at all times when I'm on the court. Like one of them was like,
I want to end Rookie of the Year. And it's like to step into his situation like that where even though like what he's saying, like when he's asked about, like you know, the team and his rookie season, he's like, I.
Just want to fit in. I want to make other guys better.
I want everybody to be smiling and having fun and all that. That's all true, but he also believes it like doing it that way, like he can dominate a game that way, and I think he he is a guy that like, yes, the Raptors have had to like work with him on like being more assertive and aggressive and looking to score, because then if you're seen as a huge threat scoring, like you can go do the thing you actually want to do, which is pass the ball. And rack up a bunch of assists and be a
point guard. But at the same time as them trying to like make him be more aggressive that way. I don't think that's this thing where he's like looking in this situation kind of like I'm sure of himself.
Or intimidated or anything like that.
I think he truly has had a plan, and he's like been pretty bold about following that plan and working toward it, even like the way that he approached the pre draft stuff like a year and a half ago, where he like very clearly like wanted to show teams that he could do a few things that were sort of like seen as knocks on him and show teams like, I've gotten better since the end of last year, and you're going to see that if you get in the gym with me.
And also like I have a.
Plan for these interviews where you're going to come out of here like loving me and wanting to spend more time with me, and you're gonna be texting me after these interviews, and they were like executives were doing that. Like I think it is who he is. It comes
very naturally to him. It's easy for him. But I think also like he's very smart, and I think he sees the big picture, and I think he is like, you know, he kind of had a blueprint for what he wanted to be from a pretty young age, and like, I had absolutely no idea about any of that before I started recording it.