As tom early in June for NBA fans, because the draft is now one day away.
We're gonna get you at the speed on what teams need, absolutely need a good draft, what players to watch on draft night, Who the big sleepers are, who's gonna have a big impact next NBA season.
But we also have a special guest later on in this show, a former GM of the Phoenix Suns, executive for the Boston Celtics, former International Scout Odyssey insider Ryan McDonough's. So everybody's putting out mocks. There's a million of them, but I'm not mocking like that's pointless. That's something for you to read, right, So we already know who the top three are, right, it's Chet probably go number two. It's Jabbari who really rolls up through his time at Auburn,
and it's Paala from Duke. You don't know these names? What are you doing listening right? What are you doing? Chet Holmgritten from Gonzaga seven feet tall, slim reaper that he is one hundred and ninety five pounds, probably one hundred and eighty five pounds, could be could be something between Christaps Porzingis and Kevin Durant Palo Ben Carroll unguardable
six feet ten, two hundred and fifty pounds. He looks like a regular human being that has been like expanded three times the size of that, Like every proportion is correct, but he's just huge. And Jabari Smith interesting intriguing prospect. Can play the defensive side really well, can shoot the ball really well, and I think he'll work wherever he goes.
That's all we're doing for the market. I'll give you some players to watch that are sleepers or wildcards later on in the show, but I think that what's most important are current NBA teams. Who's currently there and who needs to have an absolutely phenomenal draft night or agency including the draft, considering what they have available in order for this franchise to move forward. We've got teams that are in inflection points people and decisions need to be made.
All of these teams we're going to talk about are teams that have draft capital. We're not talking about teams like the Lakers or the Nets that are at crossroads as well. We're talking about teams with lottery picks. Who's going to be able to maximize their lottery picks with the situation that they're in number one for me, and this is in no particular order because I don't want to be biased, right, So I'm going to say one team before the team that I think is number one
needs to kill the draft. Number one on this list not most important team, but teams whom for this is a very important draft. Charlotte Hornet's number one. This team needs a good draft even more now given that Kenny Atkinson was supposed to take the job as head coach, one of the best talent developers in the league, and
he abandoned ship at the very last moment. You know that there's a franchise in disarray when you had a coach and he backed out and said it was for family reasons, like he's staying in Golden State, and rumors are it's because he wasn't allowed to bring his own assistance. I even heard some little side jokes from other NBA insiders where they're like, yeah, some owners in certain NBA teams, they some won't even let their coaches choose their own assistance.
They didn't say who was, but I already heard that rumor, and I was like, that's obviously what they're talking about. So what does this mean for a team with two first rounders this year? If MJ can't keep his hands out of the cookie jar Man, I don't know, right is he gonna get involved again? Are thirteen and fifteen gonna be MJ's picks or they're gonna be Mitch Kupcheck's
pitch They chose James Bookknight last year. James Booknight at thirteen again, I'll just say this, he didn't perform up to the expectations that you would think a thirteen pick would make. There's a lot of impact guys defensively, offensively that came in later than James Brooknight and really contributed
to the team. A la Herb Jones. Hayward's gotta be moved if you want to max out Miles Bridges, and that probably means sending one of your firsts along the way, right, So you've got to probably send first to move Hayward in order to max Miles Bridges. Booknight was your lottery pick. He didn't turn out. You got thirteen and fifteen again. You need to figure it out. You've been in the play in two years now. You had the worst defense in the league. You don't even have a coach before
the draft. I don't even know what kind of coaching style you're gonna have. There's a lot of questions about whether Mike dan Toni is gonna come in. Okay, one of the worst defenses in the league, can't protect the rim, Mike D'Antoni. One of these things do not fit like the other. If you're trying to fix that, I don't know what you're doing right. You're probably gonna have to
use thirteen or fifteen to get rid of Hayward. So means whoever you get at fifteen needs to bring value to me the number one guy that they can get.
I scan through all the drafts, all the mocks, all the players, all that number one player that Charlotte Hornet fans should be rooting for them to select, and maybe they keep both, maybe they keep thirteen and fifteen and they figure out a way to move Hayward Without those You need Mark Williams from Duke need them great rim protector, Probably a more mature, smart, smarter, higher IQ immediate impact
guy than Rob Williams. He's like a smarter, more mature Rob Williams seven footer can protect the rim, and I think that makes the most sense, you could probably get him at fifteen, because you know that Cleveland at fourteen isn't selecting another big man. If you end up keeping number thirteen, I could see them going after a perimeter player as well. If you could get say a Jeremy
Soshan if he falls down there, I like that. If you can get a Dison Daniels if he falls there, find some guy that can defend on the perimeter, because right now you ain't got it like that. You got Kelly Ubray and you got Hayward and it's just not working out. The most important team that needs to kill the draft, in my opinion, is Portland. Yeah. Yeah, not because it's my team either. It's not because of that,
because this team says they want to contend. Right now, you're talking about a team that's got top seven, seventh pick in the draft. Literally, I read an article so disrespectful they said the only two good teams that are drafting in the lottery are San Antonio and I forget the other one, but it wasn't Portland, And I'm like, what do you mean? We went to the Western Conference finals a couple of years ago. We try to tank. This team tanked on purpose, right, Okay, So they need
to hit the draft out of the park. They need to come out the blocks. It's moving pieces are a draft night, moving the pick altogether. There is an urgency. They have promised Dan they are building a contender and retooling around him. They can't fuck around and get in a project. What do you mean, like Dave's gonna be like you just drafted shaded sharp. Okay, Like when is he going to contribute? Because I'm thirty in my mid thirties. Portland needs viable pieces yesterday. So I don't think it's
Caljun Blevins that's gonna contribute yesterday, right. Joe cronin the GM, the good thing about him is he's valuing length athleticism. He said he values the ability to play multiple positions and guard multiple positions, defend on the perimeters, which everything shoot threes. That's a good start in terms of how you think about guys. My favorite player at number seven, Benedict Mathern. I love him. I've always loved him since
the beginning of the season. Since October, I've been all up in his DMS, being like, come to Portland, Come to Portland, Come to Portland. He shot up the board in the low double digits, from the low double digits now to the top five pick, so I don't even know if he's going to be there. He might go to Detroit. I have no idea. He might go to Indiana. I don't know. Based on Joe Cronin's comments, I can
see this team either taking maybe a Dyson Daniels. I could also see them taking Shadon Sharp, even though he's a project, just because he's long, and maybe they're lying. Maybe they are gonna shop Dame. I have no idea, but Dy Dyson Daniels is long, he's athletic, he has great court vision, he can pass like Josh Giddy, he can defend, he can shoot. As for Shaden, he could
end up being a superstar. A lot of chatter also around Portland trading number seven for og Ananobi and some pieces, maybe also trying to get that user twenty twenty five first round pick from the Bucks along with the pick in the fifties to try to make a three team trade work where you get og Ananoby and John Collins. That would be something, wouldn't it. That would be something. But there's a lot of recent chatter that Portland's keeping their seventh pick. Again. We're going to talk to Ryan
mcgunnah about this later on in the show. But teams are out here lying recklessly, so that could be very easily a lot. I could see that being something that they're just taking people off the scent and trying to make it sound like they have their pick in mind so that that pick seems more valuable to other teams. Another team that I think needs to really kill this
is the Wizards. Huge offseason for the Wizards, much like Boston, they haven't been able to find that elusive point guard after John Wall got injured and then got shipped away. They tried out Spencer Dinwoodie. He wasn't really a point guard. They tried out Ish Smith, They tried out Raoul Nettle, they tried out Cassius Winston, they tried out Aaron Holliday. The list goes on and on. They tried out Bradley Beal. Is Bradley Beial a point guard for the Wizards of
the Future. I don't think so. I don't know, but I don't think so. A lot of chatter right now about the Wizards moving up to the number four spot for Jade and Ivy or trading three first rounds of this tenth pick and two first in the future for Sga or John Tamrie. What are all those guys have in common. They're not really point guards. They're not other combo guards their score first guards. Pair that with what Tommy Shepherd said yesterday during whatever media availability it was.
He said, Listen, I'm traditional. I like point guards to set the offense and try to get everyone involved and move the ball. Because you see the results when we move the ball, we're pretty good. Let me ask you this, which three of those is setting the table? Which three of those is getting everybody the ball? You think Jade and Ivy's passing the ball. No, Jade and Ivy doesn't even know how to pass the ball when he's driving and kicking effectively.
No.
So to me, what the wizard should do is they should probably trade that pick for a piece. Go after Tias Jones, trade the number ten pick to Memphis, try to figure out a way to get something like that. Also, go after Jalen Brunson in free agency. If you could get a Johnny Davis, maybe sit him and then go after Jalen Brunson or Tias Jones. And even here's a little crazy thought because he'll be available in December. In terms of playing, Ricky Rubio makes a ton of sense.
Ricky Rubio is a perfect playmaker, set the table, get everybody involved, can put up thirty. He and Bradley Build together if Ricky Rubio is fully healthy, and I know that's a big if, they would be really good together. And now you've got to ask two a big issue of course of what is Bradley Build going to do. How this draft ends up, what they end up doing in free agency will absolutely play a factor in how Bradley beul sees and views the future of this franchise.
He and you don't need to do much. You don't really because he already is so delusional because he wants to believe. He wants to believe that the Wizards will compete for a championship while he's in his prime. The answer that everyone, including Wizards fans know is that it's never going to happen. Bradley Beal will never be on a contender in the District of Columbia. Never not going to happen. Doesn't matter what happens. You add, cous and this and that does not matter. Ricky Rubio cous Bial
not a contender, and he's a loyal dude. His loyalty is creating a pair of rose colored delusional glasses about what this team can do if Beal and when Beal re signs for the max contract. Now you got a whole other set of problems because you're paying them sixty seven million dollars a year and you're trying to build a winner, just like Portland trying to keep Dame happy. If he tests the waters and head somewhere else, much
easier scenario. You sign and trade him, get a bunch of picks, get some little young assets, and it's a full on rebuild. You know the direction of your franchise right now. You're trying to do two things at once, which is lie to Bradley Beal and tell him it's a contender, kind of make them happy and appease them while simultaneously collecting young assets. Some mocks have the Wizards
taking Johnny Davis at ten. I don't hate that, but again, it would not shock me if Tommy Sheppard made another big splashy move on Draft Day like he did with Russell Westbrook, moving him for all those pieces KCP, who's another team that needs to do something Kings. Kings is at a crossroads. They have a very desirable pick at number four, but the luck or unlock of the draw makes this draft a three player race. Jabari from Auburn,
Chet from Gonzaga, and Paolo from Duke. The best players remaining happen to be guards, which is exactly what the Sacramento Kings keep drafting and then having to figure out how to play them all. So the issue is do the Kings do the whole best available thing and then take a guard like they've done before and take Ivy or do they get this NBA ready made player in
Keegan Murray, a forward who has less upside. Somebody said to me last night, which is exactly what I've been telling you, Brock, that Keegan Murray seems like Kuzma in terms of his upside if Kyle Kuzma and I think that's a big ass reach, like Keegan Murray will never let me just say this. I'll stay on I'll put my stamp on this, and I don't like to say what players can be and who they can become if
they get developed. But I think that there is almost less than a zero percent chance that Keegan Murray becomes as good as Kyle Kuzma. And if your abs exactly and if your upside doesn't even reach, because that's they've got the same body comps, they've got the same style of play. Kuzma is absolutely a better athletic specimen than our man Keegan Murray. In my opinion, He's also a little bit old. And and our man Kyle Kuzma wasn't a top five pick. He was drafted in the twenties,
wasn't he. And listen, maybe it was because Kus went to Utah and Iowa was this force. But holy shit, if you're if your absolute maximum ceiling is Kus, I don't know necessarily if I'm taking in top box welcoming into this show. We've got our guy, Ryan McDonough. We're gonna be asking him some of the inside baseball questions on the draft. I have not spoken ever to Ryan,
so I'm happy to meet you. I'm super excited. Former GM the Phoenix Suns spent a decade working for the Boston Celtics, where he was everything from an international scout to assistant GM to my man Danny Trader, Danny Ainge currently our Odyssey Basketball inside. That's where I'm from. Odyssey Basketball Insider cannot wait to ask him a ton of questions. How are you doing, sir, Hey.
Hey, Tristan, I'm doing well.
I want to because there's a lot of people doing MOX. I'm not really too interested in like debating who's gonna go where or who's the best fit wear. I'm really interested in the process of drafting and just kind of how it all works from someone who's been there and has been there with a bunch of different teams. First and foremost, there's this big debate about team needs versus best available. What is your stance on that, and is
that a trend that sort of changes over time? And what are some examples of ways that door one works and doesn't work and door two works and doesn't work.
Yeah, really good question.
I think the first thing you have to ask as a franchise is if player X in the draft is better, and he probably won't be better immediately, obviously these things take some time. But if he has a chance to be better than anybody on our roster, we should probably draft player X because we can move the other guys on the roster. You know, if he's that good, if he has a chance to be a special, transcendent player. Now,
now there are some arguments the other way. I mean, one of the things that we get criticized for, and I certainly had some involvement with, was DeAndre eight and with the number one pick in Phoenix. Thought process at the time organizationally right or wrong. And keep in mind I was fired the following preseason, so there may have been some disagreement.
But was it.
We had a young backcourt star and Devin Booker offensively gifted, you struggled a little bit defensively and rebounding.
He certainly improved in those.
Areas, But the thought process was devon in the backcourt eight and in the front court mckail Bridges, who we later acquired on the wing. You know, people can nitpick, and they certainly have about the Luca donsage versus eight and pick, and I understand that and I take responsibility for that. Obviously, the Suns were in the finals a year ago and won sixty four games. So that's why so hard Tristan. That's where I think people on the fan side, or even some of the media side, don't
realize as much you were picking for a team. You know, you're not just picking in a vacuum individually. And when people go back and do redrafts and things like that, the context and the roster at the time is important because you know, the reality is, once we get in October and training camp starts, you have to hand the coach the ball and say, figure out how to play
these guys and put together a functional team. So you know, generally speaking, it's the most talented player you'd want that, but there is some context and nuance to that as well.
I wasn't planning on asking you this, but I think one of the greatest steals in that draft was mckil Bridges. Can you can you give me just a little bit of insight into how that all went down, if outside of what's already kind of been written about.
Yeah, it was a really unusual deal, Trista, just because Philadelphia seventy six ers, who had the tenth pick, drafted Bridges with the intention of keeping him.
Yeah. I was there for that that at Barclays.
Okay, and you know mckhill's history and what it was like at Barclay's. His mother worked for the franchise. He won multiple national championships of Villanova. He's a Philadelphia kid, and it seems on paper, at least to me, like a very good fit between Ben Simmons and Joel Embiid. But Philly was big game hunting, I think, and we had a draft pick, a future first round pick that we got in twenty fifteen for Goran Dragics from Miami that was unprotected did and then we had the sixteenth
pick in the twenty eighteen draft as well. So it's a bit unusual because, you know, I called Philly's front office. We were chasing picks up in that range. Because one of the things that I think people don't talk about enough Christa is there are tiers in gaps in the draft. And what I mean by that is, you know, the value of each player to the next is not always even right. Sometimes it is close. Sometimes there's a gap between players. Sometimes there's a gap between tiers of players.
So that's what teams do. It's there's like most teams use a tiering system rather than let's just rank them one to six, year one hundred or whatever. So with us, we felt the group of players in that late lottery, you know, say eight to fourteen range we're going to be significantly better than who was available or we thought was going to be available to sixteen. So anyway, so long story relatively short, Philly drafted Bridges. I was on the phone with them, say is there anything we can do?
They said no at the time, and said, okay, we're coming back at sixteen. We like Bridges a lot, we'd give you some value, we'd give you sixteen plus and we can discuss what the plus is. But are there players you know you as are potentially interested in and they said yeah, one in particular. Obviously they didn't tell us who it was. So fast forward to fourteen fifteen, picking that range, we re engage with them and zier Smith, the Ford out of Texas Tech, was still on the
board who they liked. Obviously, Zayre's had some injury issues and other health issues that have derailed his career. But that plus the future Miami pick, that was how that deal got done. And this is funny in hindsight, especially given how well mckel's done and how well the team has done Trista. But I wasn't really looking forward to calling the kid his mom, who were excited being in Philly.
His mom works for the franchise and saying, I know you thought you were going to stay at home, but what do you think about heading a couple thousand miles to the southwest and Phoenix.
That's wild. Another thing I think that people are interested in is and I guess the context around it, are players like Shaden Sharp players like Jaden Hardy? So two different paths, right? Both of those guys were consensus lottery picks. Shaden doesn't end up playing a minute for Kentucky. Jaden Hardy goes to the G League. Shaden Sharp's kind of like a wild card in terms of his draft hasn't
hasn't fell I mean we're not really sure. Maybe he's top five, maybe he slips to mid maybe post lottery, but Jayden Hardy seems to have fallen off a cliff in terms of consensus draft picks. Should players that are already deemed Patrick Baldwin Junior is another one deemed to be a lottery pick. Is there some sort of debate now in terms of whether they should actually play in college or go to the G League or go to the Shaden Sharp path?
Well, I speak from a former executive's perspective, I think they should play somewhere. I think it's one thing to try to manipulate draft stock and you know, potentially hide, you know, things like that. But at the end of the day, is you know Tristan. In fact, in just a couple of weeks they're going to be off on a court in Las Vegas with ESPN and NBA TV and all these groups there, and they're going to have
to perform. So I think, especially as a team, taking a year off and not playing is not something I would advise.
Now.
I really like what the NBA has done with the JU League Ignite. That was one of my criticisms of the league of things I think the league could have done better earlier instead of letting and I'm going back aways here, but instead of letting Brandon Jennings go play in Italy and Emmanuel Moodier go play in China recently LaMelo Ball go play in Australia. You know, a lot of US executives in the league were saying, why don't
we keep these guys here? It's better from a fan and marketing perspective, it's better for the players developmentally, it's easier to recruit and evaluate them. And this is what the players want those guys that you know, eighteen nineteen years old didn't want to go live overseas by themselves and things like that. So I bring it up. I think the league's done a terrific job with the G League ignite. Just look at last year's draft. I believe
they had two of the top seven books. Jalen Green, who I think is going to be a star among the scoring leaders in the NBA someday. And then Jonathan kaminga who you know, talented young developmental player for the Warriors, got some run in the playoffs on the NBA champion and this year, and Daniels will be another lottery pick. So I think it's you know, it's good to have options.
You know, Shading sharp situation was unique. And the final I guess point I'll make on Shade and trist is that he is the kind of player as an executive that keeps you up at night.
And what I mean by that is it scares you to.
Take him because you don't have a body of work, and it also scares you to pass on him because of the talent. You know, he's talented enough. His highlight film is incredible that that kid can end up being the best pick in the draft. But that's why it's scary and hard to be an executive at this point of being impossible to say either way where his career ends up.
Yeah, and Drey and I would imagine that as a GM job, security makes that decision making tree a little bit more complex. I'm curious, why do some guys skyrocket after the tournament has has been over and we've gotten through the combine, we've gotten through team workouts, so it seems like nothing's really happened, right, and you got take
a guy like Mathern. Mathern was like in the tim is like eleven to fifteen range and then all of a sudden, now even though he looked awesome at Arizona, went to the tournament, looked good there too, to go, why do some guys fall significantly? And why do some guys skyrocket?
Really good question, and that's one of the things where as evaluators you have to remind yourself and keep going back to the film because seeing at the end of the day, the games are a little bit different college or international versus the NBA, but it's still five on five basketball, and after the guy season's over, he's not really playing five on five basketball. He's doing the individually. You know, they do a little five on five there.
But the recent trend, which is unfortunate as the top players don't play there in the five on five action, and then the workouts, a lot of them, especially for the top prospects now are individual one on zero. So that's one of the things as an executive you have
to manage expectations. Frankly, it can be really dangerous, especially when the people who don't do this year round, like your coaches, your head coach in particular, if he has a strong voice, strong personality, and your owner especially see a guy in an individual workout or you know, as you know, truest to anybody can one hour workout can look great or look horrible. It's not really reflective of who they are. But they can just have a great
day or horrible day. That's just you know, human nature. So that's why you have to rely on your process. That's why you have to go back to the film and watch them playing games, and then also you know, bake in some of the off season stuff with the combine with the individual workouts and hope you make the right decision.
But to answer your question. That is why.
And I always can't get a kick out of when somebody says guy's stock is rising or falling, or this or that. Well, in reality, it hasn't gone anywhere. Nothing has happened till tomorrow night. It's just you know, you know, media articles and things like that seem to manipulate players
up and down. The teams just set their boards probably today as far as who they're going to draft, So anything that happened before today is I don't say irrelevant, but I think you know, it gets more traction on the media side than it does when you're working for a team.
Wait, so the draft board gets created only the day before the draft.
Usually do a pretty late you know, probably the week of the draft. I'd be surprised if any teams did it well before this week because as you look around the league, teams are still working out players as recently as you know, Monday or Tuesday. I don't think we have any you know, on Wednesdays, we sit here about forty eight hours see me, twenty four hours before the draft. And the NBA does want the players to come to New York earlier now to do the media circuit and
be available prior to draft night. But yeah, when when I was in Boston, in particular because the proximity to New York City, the draft is you know, either Madison Square Gardener now the Barclay Center in Brooklyn, we would try to get guys in Wednesday morning, I mean the day before the draft and say, look, we know you're headed to the Northeast. We you know, we have to do some recruitment. We love your guy, get him in here. It will be the last workout. We'll take good care
of them. We won't keep them long. We just want to see them one more time and then we'll get them on the shuttle down to New York, you know, to be available for the draft. So that's why teams wait. And then also the medical piece of at the intel, you want to go over that with your trainers, doctors, people like that one more time, Tristed, just to make sure, because that's the other thing that keeps you up a night. One of the things as an executive, you draft a
guy who's not medically sound, he breaks down. That's probably one of the quicker ways to get fired if you if you drafted somebody, especially if you should have known and you didn't do your job as far as knowing whether the guy was medically fit or not.
You mentioned ownership and a bunch of different voices in the room. Can you kind of highlight just what it's like on draft night in a war room, all of the different people that are sounding off and kind of what your experience is like for people who haven't really had insight to that.
Yeah, it's certainly different with different franchises. I did probably ten or eleven drafts in Boston and then five or six in Phoenix. You know, ideally, what you'd want is the top decision makers in the room. You're head of basketball, whether the president or GM his or her, you know, top lieutenants, and then same with the head coach. You know, the top men and women who work under the head coach, and then your owner.
And really that's it.
I mean, you don't want a lot of, you know, theatrics and things like that. A lot of teams have draft parties in both places in Boston and Phanaco did a good job of keeping that separate because you know, you have to concentrate and be prepared to pivot for trades like the one we just discussed from Michel bridges. You know, you have to be prepared obviously to really do anything. And what I mean by that is you want to move up in the draft, Do you want to move down in the draft? Do you want to
move out of the draft. Do you want to trade the pick for a player? Do you want to trade
the pick for a future pick? You know, all that happens in real time and is fluid, and then you also, even as the draft is going, sometimes have to be prepared in case there's a slider, so to think, you know, a guy you didn't think would be there, all of a sudden, you know, gravity sets in, the guy starts coming down, the players, nervous, as agents calling you, and then you have to kind of go through your process to make sure you're prepared, you know, if he's on
the board when it comes up. So really, the most important people generally are the head of basketball, the head coach, and the owner. And you know, the ownership involvement depends on the franchise and how involved they're uninvolved that guy wants to be.
How how many or what percentage of NBA teams have extremely a vocal and hands on owners during draft night, I'd.
Say a growing percentage.
Honestly, I think as franchise values escalate and some new money comes into the league, you know, you know, a lot of tech and a younger group of owners. I guess I think some you know, talking to guys who have done the job longer than I have. You know, some of the old guard owners frankly wouldn't come around for draft night. They just you know, get get a call or you send them an email maybe a fax back in the day and say, here are the guys we're looking at.
You know, you try to prep them for we might take this guy or that guy. Okay, it sounds good.
That is getting you know, less and less standard, I guess, so they're more involved. So that's one of the challenges, you know, from a front office perspective or a coaching perspective, I think from any job, right managing up, managing the boss and his expectations. But yeah, I don't think that's a trend that's going anywhere. Let me put it this way.
When the average franchise is selling for one and a half to two plus billion dollars and guys right to check at that level, I think they're going to want to continue to be involved.
That's really interesting, especially considering I talked to somebody within the Golden State organization and I asked them and I said, why do you guys consistently draft so well and find value wherever you're at in the board? And they said, well, I think the main reason And they said a lot of people get it confused like that, there are certain teams that don't have great scouting departments or talent evaluation departments.
There's pretty high level of talent evaluation all over the league, but it really is a matter of whether an owner decides they want to allow those decision makers and evaluators to have agency to make those decisions. And they said, you know, Joe lacob has really given us a lot of agency to make those decisions. What's it like when you know, maybe you see a decision one way and an owner disagrees.
Well, it's a challenge for sure. And I'd reiterate that. I've heard the same about Joe Lacub. You know, he's an owner, is very involved in the process. Obviously, he's good at his team spin in the finals six of the last eight years and won four championships, and I give him a lot of credit twisted because as much as you know any majority owner I can think of off the top of my head, he works. I mean, he goes around, he scouts games, he watches films.
Yeah, he loves it.
So where you get in trouble you probably see where I'm going with this, but is where you get in trouble is when a guy does not do all that and bases it off of you know, pre draft workouts or highlight tapes or things like that, and thinks he knows, well, ultimately he's the boss, so does he know?
You know? And so it's hard.
I think, like anybody, when you disagree with, you know, somebody you're working for, you need to be persistent and make your points and be respectful, but also know when to relent right because ultimately, you know, at the end of the day, unless you own a company or you're you're the CEO or whatever, you work for somebody. So you have to, you know, pick your spots. You hope that the relationship you built up and the process you
have is sound. Maybe if you have a track record of success doing something, you can fall back onto that. But yeah, I think anybody who's disagreeing with the boss, you know, goes through the same calculation when do I push, how hard do I push? And when I realized it's not going to go my way or not likely to go my way, do I let go of the rope and relents even if I don't agree with the ultimate decision.
I don't know if this happens at all, But when I disagree with someone for whatever decision, if I'm in a collaboration or I'm working for someone and I allow them to be the one and it does not work out, or vice versa, it's pretty hard to not be like, well, you see, like Frank Kaminsky really probably shouldn't have gone, like whatever the what was he thirteen twelve?
Maybe I say no so quickly because I know who was the thirteenth pick in the twenty fifteen Oh yeah.
It was Devin Booker. Wasn't so I think he came. I think Frank Kaminsky ended up going right before Devin Booker, didn't he.
I think Frank went ninth or tenth. Yeah, nice change, maybe eleven. The direct pick before Devin was his college teammate Trey Lyles with the Utah Jazz.
And this is why it's so hard.
I mean Dennis Lindsay and the staff did a phenomenal job of building the Jazz when he was there. They drafted Donovan Mitchell in the late lottery and Gobert in the late first round. Own they had also drafted Rodney Hood, who played well at the time, you know, late teams early twenties there, so they had a perimeter heavy team. They wanted a frontcourt guy. They went with Lyles over Booker.
In a vacuum, that pick doesn't look great, but then you look at the totality of their draft, like, yeah, Utah, you know, they've been one of the best teams the
league last few years. So that's why the job is hard, Tristan and obviously one of the frustrations as you can imagine, and players get this too, but as an executive, as a head coach, you know, for certain members of fans of particular, certain members of the media, just picking a mistake, you know, picking a mistake rather than looking at the totality of it and saying, Okay, it's a hard job. And nobody literally, whether you Red Hourback or Jerry West,
Everybody's going to make mistakes. You know, the guys who do it better make fewer mistakes and adjust to their mistakes quicker than everybody else.
So I heard this story yesterday and I believe it was Mark Stein talking about the Dirk the Dirk draft pick, and he was talking to the Mavericks organization and asked him how Dirk did, and they basically said that that Dirk had a horrible workout and that this other kid, I forget who it was, really excelled, and you know, it was disappointing because they liked Dirk and all of this.
Obviously they end up loving Dirk. That was complete lie and Dallas the Mavericks organization said to Mark, don't listen to us at all before draft because it's all lies. Can you talk a little bit about the whole disinformation campaign that goes on pre draft from team to team in the media. Know how front offices use media to sort of like take you off the scent? And who's the best at it in the league right now?
Yeah, all really good questions. Trist to look at it this way, if you work for a team, why would you want anybody to know what you're doing?
Right?
You wouldn't want anybody to know what you're doing because there goes to your competitive advantage. And in this draft that's coming tomorrow night, I think the Orlando Magic have done a good job injecting some uncertainty into the process. I mean, most people think they're going to take Jabari Smith, the Ford out of Auburn. I think that's who they'll take. I wouldn't be shocked if they take Cheded Holmgren personally.
Now we've seen on the betting markets, and I know, obviously given your multiple gigs with Odyssey, if all the betting markets closely, Pollo bencerro A skyrocketed. He was a distant third on the betting markets. Now he's moved up just behind Cheed Holmgren and into that number three slot, close to number two. So I mean they're doing a good job of that.
Now we'll see.
Ultimately, all that matters to the franchise is whether they draft the right guy and how he develops. But yeah, if you're Orlando, for example, you want people thinking you could take any of those three guys, or maybe even Jade and Ivy, because if a team falls in love with the player, you don't want them to say, Okay, well we know Orlando's going to take Jabari Smith. For example, now let's just talk to Oklahoma City at two and try to trade for two because we know who wanted to.
You know, you want all your options to be open.
So that's why it happens.
And yeah, the disinformation, it's easy on the team side the spot a lot of times because when you see stuff about your own team, you say, well, that's not true. You know obviously when when you're living it, when you're doing it. And so what I would say just from a general perspective for your fans is consider the sources, right, I mean, some of the NBA's top newsbreakers. You and I know a lot of them, but vadrimoor Zanowski, Champserania,
some of these guys say it's probably pretty legitimate. If it's some guy with an egg with six followers on Twitter, you probably don't want to listen to that person if it is a person and.
Not a bot. So that's the challenge.
You know.
Teams will use it to throw, you know, throw out smoke screens. Agents will use it to try to as you talked about players rising or falling, especially, try to spike their guys value right before draft time and prevent a free fall. On the other side of it. So as far as teams, honestly, I think just about every team does it. And then you know, one of the new trends. This is interesting. I guess this is more related to free agency, but I was thinking of today.
Is one of the things we're seeing now Trista is teams using the media to set the expectations for free agency.
Right.
So it's for example, a recent example in the last twenty four hours, PJ Tucker opts out in Miami with the Heat. We see that the Offia seventy six ers, we'll offer PJ. Tucker a three year, thirty million dollar deal, and that the Miami Heat better be prepared to, you know, pay that amount.
So that's kind of the word side. Yes, that's got to be coming from the agent side, right.
I think it's both, Honestly. I think a lot of it probably is the agent side. You know, he's doing what's best rist player, that's his job. But a lot of it's the team side too, where if you're a PJ. Tucker, So I didn't know that team was interested and at that level, let me start, I was thinking about maybe re signing in Miami, you know, comfortable here. We just went to the Eastern Conference Finals, almost played in the NBA Finals at South Beach. No state income tacts, all
those kinds of things. But Philly is interested whether they have James Harden and Joel Mbied and you know, so that's kind of the way the game is played now, as Draymond calls it the new media, and I don't think that's a trend that's going to change, not only with players, you know, doing media like Draymond and CJ. McCollum, but with teams and agents and even players leaking stuff to try to manipulate situations the way they.
Wanted to go.
What percentage of what we've seen rumor wise, specifically this year, considering it's a very wide open draft, would you consider to be false?
Oh, more than half?
You know, you know, I think you know a lot more than half, because you know, honestly, one of the things that's funny with NBA teams is they'll spend just about all their time talking about what every single other team's going to do, and then you know, and you ask somebody, what are you guys.
Going to do?
It's well, you know, I'm not sure, you know, because because there's no reason to tell another team what you're going to do, you know.
So so I think that perpetuates it.
You know, where kids like the game Telephone where you tell the person next to you and then they tell the next person, and by the time it got to the end of the line, the message was kind of similar,
but like pretty different. That's kind of like the NBA where you know, you hear this team is interested in this guy or may do this, and and then it gets you know, parroted and maybe changed and tweaked a little bit, and by the time sometimes it hits the media or it gets back to you, say, wait a minute, that's not what It's kind of like what I heard,
but different. So there is a lot of that in NBA front offices, and that's why I think in some ways, honestly, it's a little bit of a waste of time to do all that. If you're an NBA executive or with a team, just you know, focus on what you're doing, the draft, the film, the trades. Don't worry about it, and just rely on your direct conversations with other teams rather than what you read on Twitter or some of these NBA gossip sites.
If we're betting on the NBA Draft, if you're in a state where you can bet, does it make sense to look at kind of the past decision making lens of an organization in terms of how they like to draft, how they like to construct a roster, in terms of
how they may actually select. A good example that I guess I could use is like there's a lot of chatter around Toronto last year taking Jalen Suggs, but when you look at Messi Usieri and what he likes to do, he likes to get these six six to six ten guys that can switch everything, that can also handle the ball with exception obviously to Fred Van Fleet, which makes the Scottie Barnes pick make more sense.
Yeah, really good question.
And so I don't want to say disregard what I said up until this point, but if there is a time, especially if you're betting it, to rely on and NBA insiders, you know, you know, the elite NBA insiders newsbreakers, it is in the next twenty four hours from now up until the draft, because that was one of the things that that I got, you know, for Odyssey. I think it was in twenty twenty the draft that they were going to take the Chicago Bulls were going to take
Patrick Williams with the fourth pick. I had a number of people tell me that, I think you would have gotten good value there on the betting markets because he was not a projected top four pick. So I say, you know, pay attention to some of that, like now you know the other three hundred and sixty three or four days, it's less relevant. But generally the mock drafts, especially Jonathan Givoni runs one for ESPN, are pretty accurate close to the draft, So I would pay attention to those.
And then yeh, to your point the team history, I'll give you another example that's you know, probably to me, the most interesting thing in the draft tomorrow night is the Sacramento Kings at four. They they have the Aaron Fox and the roster max player. They drafted Davion Mitchell a year ago, which was controversial because at that time they had Tyres Halliburton on the roster. They traded Haliburton obviously for Sabonis with Indiana.
Will they do it again? Will they draft Jade and Ivy again?
He's the best player on the board in my opinion, maybe the best player to come out of this draft. I wouldn't be surprised, but I think there's maybe some value in a if you can get those kind of odds. I don't know if you can't trust it, but like Jade and Ivy with the fourth pick, not necessarily JAYD
and Iy two second. You know, with the fourth pick, I think there's probably some good value there because I think he probably does go number four, whether that's Sacramento or another team swooping in by a trade.
You are an international scout. I just watched The Hustle with Adam Sandler, so I have a new found appreciation for all the miles that you've logged in your life, and all of the room service and places you've woken up and you don't even know where you are. I am curious, based on your international experience, how places and regions and styles of play go in and out of style. You talk about a bunch of NBL guys or guys from Australia in general, like Gidey that have ripped things
up early, you know, made an immediate impact. How does that that impact their decision makings and how other players from that area and how teams evaluate them.
Yeah, it's a great question, and I think if you go back thirty years, what the Dream Team started is really powerful and impactful, and you see that as an international scout. In fact, you know, look at the recent award winners in the NBA. You know, two time MVP now Nikola Jokic from Serbia. Before that, Yannis you know, born in Nigeria, raised in Greece, maybe the best young player in the league, Luka Donsich from Slovenia. Pascal Siakam.
I believe he recently won Most Improved Player from Cameroon. So it really is a worldwide game, you know, globally. We've talked about Dirk on this show. We could talk about you know, Yao Ming and other international players over the last couple of decades as well. So I think that's a good thing for the league. And I think, you know, one of the ways honestly that you see the rest of the world catching up to the USA and why it's so important to scout internationally is just
watch Team USA play. This is not you know, Bird and Jordan and Magic and those guys beating Angola by one hundred points in the nineteen ninety two. You know, these these international countries, a lot of the top ones are pretty good. You know, you watch Spain or you know some of the top international teams, they really pushed the American guys. So I think, you know, that'll continue. I think the next region, honestly that the NBA is invested in it is Africa. You know where they have
the Basketball Africa League. You know a lot of times there most of the time. Historically, the top African players like Serge Ibaka for example, of left they played in Europe and then they come over to the US. So the NBA is really trying to develop the African continent.
But yeah, if you're in that role, you're in the Adam Sandler international scouting role, you better have your passport ready with the extra pages in that book to get you know, more stamps, and you better get a lot of frequent flyer miles because it's not like you're just scouting the US or just going to Europe like you could in the past. You're probably going to you know, Oceania they call it New Zealand, Australia, Asia, and then probably sometime in the future you going to Africa as well.
My lord, I want to talk a little bit about and I know you got to get out of here. But I got like three more about teams that are looking to like trade their picks and they need immediate impact guys, a current role player. I'm thinking about Portland specifically, have promised Dame that they're going to retool. A lot of chatter about them trading that pick to get og and Anobi or John Collins, and the disinformation campaign now is alive and well that they're going to keep that
seven pick. Help me understand why a team would go one direction, We're going to trade the pick and get a current role player that's you know, we need to win now, and then they do an about face and they keep that pick.
I think because Trista, ultimately, as an executive, your job for the franchise is to do what's best given what's available. Right, you can want to do whatever. I mean, every executive the league would love to put together, you know, a super team of all stars at every position. That's obviously not realistic, but you know a lot of times, like in life, that you only make the decisions are in
front of you. You can't force something that's not there. So I think Portland probably does want to trade the number seven pick. It seems like they have told Damian Lillard to your point that you know, this is not going to be a long drawn out rebuild. He's in his thirties now, he's made a ton of money, he's an All NBA player, He's going to the Hall of Fame someday. He doesn't have the patience for that, nor to be prudent for the Trailblazers to keep Lillard in a Blazer's uniform.
Sty're going to do that, you know, makes sense to get young players and draft picks and things like that. So that's but the challenge is, you know, you don't want to trade the seventh pick for just whatever, you know, you know, for anybody, if he's not going to impact winning.
You know.
The other school of thought is, okay, you know, we'd prefer to trade the pick. I imagine the Blazers have a list of players they would trade to pick four. But if you can't get one of those players, you know, then let's try to draft the best available guy we can. Maybe he shows out in summer league and builds value there and we could trade him, you know, later this summer, even into the season next year. Keep in mind the trade deadlines not till February. So those are decisions that
take place, and you know on draft. That's why the best executive, the best teams are flexible. I think one of the best recent examples of that is Golden State and the maneuvering they did with D'Angelo Russell first and
then with Andrew Wiggins in the pick. You know, I don't think that was something that they necessarily could have predicted in advance, but they gave themselves that optionality and flexibility and it culminated in Wiggins being maybe the second best player on the team that just won the championship.
Yeah, that was a wild turn of events man for him to turn into Maple Jordan after being you know, somewhat disappointing in Minnesota. It goes to show you that, you know, Steve Kerr said that, you know any that the majority of NBA players could be impact players if they were in the right situation. Do you think that's true.
It's not something that we discuss enough situation, role fit. And what I would say Trista is they're only a handful of guys in the NBA that, in my opinion, are that one a alpha guy that you know, you hang on the Marquee, you sell tickets. They you know, people come visiting, fans come to see that guy play. There aren't many of those guys there certainly aren't third of them. And so if you're Andrew Wiggins, who, as you know, is backstory son of Mitchell Wiggins, former NBA player,
one of the anointed ones. From a young teenager, this kid was the number one player and potential NBA star. It's hard to live up to that pressure in those expectations, especially when you are drafted number one by Cleveland and then traded, you know, for Kevin Love to Minnesota and the Timberwolves and their fans expect that. So I just think of it from Wiggins perspective, going from the guy who's expected to be the guy in lead Minnesota championships,
and obviously the Timberwolves are well short of that. He gets traded, you know, as a quote unquote disappointment in the eyes of a lot of people to Golden State. In fact, and if you know, I'm not saying that's pick on Wiggins, but keep in mind that Minnesota threw in a pick that ended up being Jonathan Comenda, the seventh pick in the draft, along with Wiggins, gives me an idea of his value at the time to now he's the fourth guy in Goldens He's not the guy anymore.
That's we know that is that's Steph.
Curry, the best shooter in the history of the game. But they also have Draymond Green and Klay Thompson who are also head of the Hall of Fame someday. So now Wiggins can just be himself. He can just play his role. He's not the folk point. He's not the guy that everybody in the media and the fans wants to hear from. He's not the center of the defensive game plan. In effect, is probably not even the second or maybe it's probably the third guy in the game plan.
You're playing against Golden State, and he strived, you know, so, like I think that's what Kurr is referring to in his situation. It is opportunity and the teams that usually win have that, you know, one a alpha guy at the top, and then everybody falls in line beyond behind him.
I think one of the most complicated evaluation decisions I guess of this draft seems to be chet Right. Chet Holmgrin from Gonzaga seven footer Elite shooter, elite shot creator, elite passer, defender, really good shot blocker, probably one of the most unique Unicorn type players that we've seen. So they say, right, but he's one hundred and ninety five pounds,
has all the tools. My guess. My question to you is do you think that Chet's frame can functionally work at the NBA level with this full tool box of skills if he does not put on another pound.
No, he needs to add weigh And this is why one of the reasons why the job is so hard. I think, at least in my opinion, clearly Chet Holman has the most upside of any player in this draft with his size, his length, is shooting potential, is shot blocking. I think he blocked three and a half shots a game bag in twenty six minutes. You know, he can be a unicorn, But is he going to be healthy? Is he Is he going to make it? So to speak,
and we've seen guys with unusual bodies. You know, I don't want to scare anybody's fishing Orlando Magic fans, but Greg Odin, yeah, broke down.
You know.
Recently, there's some questions, I think valid questions about Christefsporzingis and his long term health. You know, it's checking to be one of those guys or is he going to have a successful ten or fifteen year career. And honestly, Trista, that's part of the reason the job is so hard that as an executive you really have to rely on
your medical staff, your doctors and trainers or scientists. I imagine the magic particular probably Okay, see as well has put Homegrun through a battery of tests and gotten his medical information and dissected it. And really it's like anything else, it's a projection. Is this guy going to hold up? Is there anything chronically wrong with him? And then it's you know, it's like building a house with his frame. How much can you add to it before it potentially
crumbles or falls apart. Yeah, so I think those are legitimate questions.
Let me put it this way.
I think if chet Holmgren's body were solid like, he'd be the number one pick for sure. But I think that is a legitimate question and a reason why you may see Tubori Smith go off the board if Orlando doesn't want to take that risk.
Last last question about Jade and Ivy for him, my I guess on what I've read to what I've seen. What I've read is that he has a ton of skills physically right and very explosive athlete, but the one question mark is his decision making ability, and a bet on him is really truly a bet on whether you can develop him into being this really good decision maker,
a playmaker and find the ability to drive and kick well. Right, He's made some pretty bad shots in the tournament, kind of taking bad twos and threes when he can make the open look. So I guess the question is how do teams evaluate on the front end whether a player you can do that with him, and whether they're capable of getting better on the IQ and decision making side.
Yeah, a lot of.
It's the in person scouting and the film work. You know, you really want to get technical and break it down, especially the pick and rolls is you know, that's such an important part of today's NBA game. And then there's decision making. And one of the things we did when I was gam with the Suns is when we met with players, we would pull film clips of their games and then have them talk us through what they saw, what they were thinking, you know, obviously there's some good
plays mixed into some bad plays. You want to see how a player thinks the game and how he talks through it. And then you also, frankly, you have to evaluate the whole roster and the coaching staff and things like that as well, because if a player was used a certain way before getting of the NBA, but you're not going to use him that way. Keep in mind, usually, as you know trist especially compared to Big ten basketball at Purdue with Ivy, the NBA game can be faster,
it can be more open. It's actually less physical. I think that's more intuitive to some people, but there's less contact on the ball handler. So that's part of the reason I'm a fan of Jade and Ivy. I really like the kids potential. I think with the NBA now with hand checking basically disallowed, whereas a defender you can't really put your hands on a guy, I think it's going to be really hard for people to stay in front of that kid. And that's why, you know, I
see shades of John Morant. You're right, the decision making has to improve. I see flashes of a young John Wall. He just moves at a different speed with the ball. And given his background too, keep in mind his mother and Yale was an excellent player coach with the Grizzlies, now the head coach in Notre Dame. This kid's you know, comes from an athletic family and a basketball family. And watching him play and see him interview, he seems like a pretty sharp guy. So for me, just from Afar,
I think he'll be able to figure it out. I think he has a lot of things you can't teach, and he seemed certainly smart enough and willing to learn the things you can't teach as an NBA team.
Well and follow up, is that what you saw with Devin Devin Booker.
Some similarities yea, yeah, obviously.
You know Devin didn't have the freaky athleticism, he had the beautiful shot. I think we stood out to us more than anything Trista was the competitiveness. I mean, we saw the shooting at Kentucky, but then when we brought him into our gym for a free draft workout, the hyper competitiveness. He didn't want to lose a drill, nobody
could stop him. And then when we did some two on two or three on three in particular, you saw some of the ball handling and playmaking that if you go back and watch the high school film, it was there, but that was not his role at Kentucky.
So that's part of the reason the job is hard.
Right.
If you just watched him.
With the wild Kaats, he said, well, he's an excellent catch and shoot player. What else can he do? Well, it was first team All NBA guy. He can do a lot, but that wasn't obvious at the time. I really that pre draft process helped to solidify that he was the guy, and luckily he was there at thirteen in the twenty fifteen draft.
Yeah, it's interesting how situations sometimes can throw teams off the scent. I think Duke is really good at players to what they can be. I think Powello could be a star. Just was kind of used in a different way than maybe he'll be used in the NBA. But awesome stuff. Thank you so much for joining us. I appreciate you giving me a plethora a swath of your very valuable time. I hope we can do it again soon anytime.
Tristan. Always great to be on with you.
Thanks so much. Appreciate that. That was Ryan McDonough, former GM of the Phoenix Suns, assistant GM of the Celtics, former international scout, current Odyssey, NBA and Basketball Insider, awesome stuff like I'm gonna go back and listen to that and listen some more. So I'm really happy that he gave us his time. I actually am out of time. I got to run as well. I'll give you guys some more post draft insight, quick wildcards, things that I
think might or may not happen. I still have some things I want to say about Pat Baldwin and Shaden Sharp and Jeremy Soshan and some others. But thank you to our guest, Ryan McDonald. He was very generous with this time. Find us on the podcast if you want to listen to that back wherever you get them. That's the heat Check. That is all the time that we have for heat Check moved back Friday with a live
episode recapping all the draft news. Follow us from heat Check as the season comes to an end in free agency begins. You not forget to download subscribe, Tell your friends, every single one of them. Please follow us on social at at this heat Check and at Trista Crick on Tiptop