On this episode of the Heat Check, it's interview time. I am super excited to check in with my guy, Matt Tynan, formerly of The Athletic Bleacher Report. He covers the Spurs on his substack better than anybody else.
It's called corporate knowledge. But we're gonna do a deep dive on all things Spurs.
So anything my man drop that motherfucking beat that should be Rihanna.
So let's just intro you then real quick, welcome to the show. Matt Kynan.
Matt, as you just said, covered the Spurs for a very long time, covered the NBA as a whole, from everyone on the Athletic to Bleacher Report to Real to sp Nation.
I think Matt has the best sub stack.
I think has the best content on the Spurs. So I will link how you get there, how you pay this man so he can keep giving us our reporting.
But before we get because I think this team's like really fun.
I think it's like a team people don't really think about a lot, and I was. I talked about this, I talked about the Spurs on Monday's episode.
You're gonna come out on Friday.
Just how perplexed and befuddled I was by the Chris Paul signing, like, oh well, this is like a fun little story of veteran coming in and now it feels like that's paying dividends in the same way that it did when he went to Oka se or even went to Phoenix. But before we get into kind of the team dynamics, do you have any updates on coach Pop and when he'll be back or anything.
No, we have, Well, first of all, like health wise, he's doing okay. Everything that we continue to hear is that he's doing fine. He's just resting. I'm sure there is a lot to you know, moll over from him, you know, whether it's himself, his family, everything for a seventy five year old man who just suffered a mild stroke, Sure there's a lot that he can step back and take a look at. So, but health wise he's doing okay.
He's in constant communication with the team, Like a lot of the stuff that you see the Spurs doing now his stuff that was already installed prior to the season. But he continues to be in contact with everybody there as far as his return goes. No idea, like genuinely no idea. I don't I don't even think that, you know, the team itself really has an idea of what that looks like. But they're in good hands because Mitch Johnson has been an assistant there since twenty nineteen. He knows,
you know, all of these guys really well. He's been an extension of Pop for a while. He's had pretty significant responsibility in the game day huddle. He is a major part of their workout routines, a practice and shoot arounds and everything, so he is certainly a familiar face to have around. Not to mention, Brett Brown is hanging out on the bench, so they're in good hands while while Pop is tending to his own needs.
Well, we wish Pop well. I hope he's back at some point soon. I think there's been a lot of people in the past wondering like who the successor may or may not be. So I mean, Mitch doing the job that he's doing. Whenever Pop does decide to hang his shoes up, it's going to be really interesting to
see where the team goes. But are you surprised at the start of this season for the Spurs because you look at this draft class, and I mean outside of the Wemby class, I think it's got you know, some of the highest anticipation with Ace Bailey and Dylan Harper and some of the other kids that aren't even talked about nearly as much who should be like VJ. Edgecombe and and I think the Cooper flag and the and
the and the the capture the flag. So I think a lot of people were, I guess anticipating maybe San Antonio keeping a slow burn of a rebuild, like a Utah Jazz like rebuild, and that just has not occurred. And some of the moves that were made, you know, getting Chris Paul, like I said, kind of befuddling to me. And now a team that's game over five hundred or we won't know what the record is by the time this airs. It it is a little delightful to see what they're turning into.
Yeah, it's once they drafted wem Bin Yama. The thing that I was told by people in that building was like, it's one year to figure this thing out and then it's like pedal to the medal. Maybe not pedal to the medal, because it's not like they went out and tried to trade for whoever. Laurie markin and while his contract stuff was up in the air over the summer or what you know, they just wanted a year to figure out Victor, figure out his body, how he worked
as a basketball player in an NBA environment. This team was the youngest team in the league last year, so there is obviously it's not just Victor that they needed to figure out. They wanted to understand better how the guys who have been in place for a few years now would fit around him. So I think one of the things that you heard most last season was that they just even from Victor, who is a super honest and objective thinker, and he speaks his mind. All of
this stuff is really refreshing. But he talked a lot about the fact that they lacked veteran leadership and experience. There were a lot of games that they lost, you know, where they lost a lead or if they came back in a game, they couldn't quite get over the last hump.
So like, what do they do.
They go out and they signed Chris Paul and trade for Harrison Barnes and who, by the way, just one Player of the Week in the Western Conference, which is wild not something I ever thought i'd see this year, but so far, like their plan has come to fruition, Like everything they had hoped had come to fruition. They didn't bring Chris Paul and Harrison Barnes in necessarily to
like pursue a championship right now. They know that they're still a ways off from that, but they just needed someone to set a tone, whether it was in the locker room and practice on the court at the end of games. They've been a good second half basketball team this year, which has not been the case the last few years. They look calm and organized under pressure late in close games. It's like these little things that they
weren't doing last year they're doing this year. And all of the guys, aside from their own maturity and development and everything, are attributing so much of that to Chris Paul and Harrison Barnes. So so far, their decision to go after those guys is paying off in a big way. And like you said, you're a little surprised, I'm a little bit surprised they being nine to eight at this point.
They've had a difficult schedule. They've only played one Eastern Conference team, so to be where they are right now and winning games that they would not have won last year Flat Lee. They they're taking care of teams under five hundred, they're taking care of teams that are on rest, disadvantages like on the second night of a back to back or whatever. They're winning at home. So, like all
of these things that competent teams do, they're doing. So whatever magic they you know, whatever magic wand they waved over the offseason has so far been working pretty well.
And they're not playing Jeremy Sohan at point guard anymore.
That's the other thing.
They replaced Jeremy Sohan with one of the greatest point guards of all time.
Yes, that's true.
What do you think about Steph Castle?
Because I thought I thought he should have probably been in a draft class where we weren't really.
Sure about anyone.
I thought there was a legitimate case to be made for Steph Castle to go number one or number two, depending on who.
Who got you know, that pick.
Obviously with Atlanta and Trey Young, you probably weren't gonna do that. But I think he's kind of showing everyone, you know, why that would be. What do you what are you seeing so far from him? Because he just put Steph Curry in in ad seg He put him in solitary confinement.
He was inside of his jersey the other night, making his life a living hell.
Yeah, yeah, he's I think that one of the concerns obviously was his shot come out of school if he was you know, right now currently or at least since he's been inserted into the starting lineup. He's shooting like thirty seven point five percent from three, which is a really good number for a guy that you were concerned about coming out of school. If he had a better shot at Yukon, Like, I think there was a legitimate chance that he could have gone number one if he
had a more defined position. I think there was a legitimate shot he could have gone number one. But he didn't have those things. And at the same time, he was like everything the Spurs have been looking at in terms of prospects over the last especially like once they started the rebuild in Earnest. It's like, these big, versatile, multifaceted defenders. We'll figure out the other stuff later. We don't really care what position you play.
We're not.
We're not concerned with fitting everything together perfectly right now. That'll have and as time goes along. So he's been like everything they could have asked for and more. He's first of all, super smart, a very fast learner. You can see the shot coming along. He can play anywhere from the point guard to the small forward or to the three, if not the four. In certain matchups he's been he's been a revelation in San Antonio. Like, obviously this is Victor win Benyama's franchise now and he gets
the most attention. But in terms of the biggest story this year, it's been the immediate impact of Steph Castle. Greg Popovich even back at Summer League said like, oh no, he's gonna play like right away, he's going to play quickly. And by the second game of the season he was playing crunch time minutes and going to.
The line with the game on the line and all of this stuff.
So he's just every single game he's doing stuff, he's improving on certain areas of the game, and it's just been really impressive and fun to watch. And he's kind of one of these he reminds people a little bit of Kawhi and like the good days for the Spurs, But the bigger difference is like he's just he loves talking to people in front, he loves being in front of microphones. He's cerebral, like he's just sort of the
entire package so far. And I'm sure that the I know that the Spurs are absolutely thrilled with what's going on there.
How did that evolution take place inside of him? Because prior to the draft he was telling teams or telling the world like listen, I'm a point guard, that's what I am. And and like you said, he's got so much positional versatility and as a player like Chris Paul comes in that could definitely rub a young guard the wrong way.
But it feels like it hasn't done that at all.
No, not at all.
In fact, it's kind of the opposite. Like we know the it's been reported ad nauseum over the years that Chris Paul tends to sort of grind on people, especially over time, but like these young guys on this team have been completely receptive to everything and Chris Paul. Chris Paul has said on a number of occasions now that he does not stop talking to Stefan Castle. And we've we've asked uh Steph about that and he said, no, I love it, Like this is this is everything that
I've I've wanted. I have one of the greatest of all times of all time, like teaching me right now, and so he's been incredibly receptive to that. And then I think like when you watch the Spurs play, like, yes, Chris Paul when he's in the game, he's controlling the game, but he's not doing it the way he used to. You know, where he is like super duper high usage,
Like this is Chris Paul's offense. He's sort of blended into how the Spurs like to play, which is which is everyone's gonna have the ball in their hands at some point, and they are major proponents of like if you found go we've seen playing like Trade Jones kind of everyone in their in their system right now has been interchangeable, and I think Steph at a certain point was like, oh, I'm gonna have plenty of opportunity to initiate offense here, whether that's as the lead initiator or
in like secondary actions or even out of the short pick and roll like he's able to. He has the ball in his hands a lot, and I think it'll be interesting to see how it does look when everyone is back and fully healthy, like Devin Vessel, like Jeremy Sohan, you know, it's going to be a really interesting dynamic just in general. But like so far, because I remember when he said that over the summer and I thought, this is gonna be's It'll be interesting to see how this works out.
But so far it's been.
It's been great, and Steph has been super happy with the way things are going.
He said, it's obviously Wemby's team.
Yeah, And what I've been really pleased to see or intrigued to see is like the Wemby three point attempts are just through the roof and a lot of people were giving you know him a lot of shit online really because the three point percentage had someone had taken a dive early on in the season. Things have kind of come to a level now obviously a monster defensively leading the league in blocks, Like what are you seeing from Wemby that we don't see?
You know?
The conversation about you know, him being around the basket or him being at the three point line is not just something that's like shit on nationally on the internet, Like it's something that fans here locally have been consistently
wondering about. It's something those of us in the media have been wondering about because you look at his shot profile, and I haven't actually looked at it in a few days, but like his his field goal attempts are like basically split down the middle fifty to fifty two pointers and three point attempts. So like, this dude is really has the green light to shoot from you know, whenever he has what they call a you know, a good opportunity. They don't want him to just be jacking stuff up
all over the place. They want it to be a good shot, which for him looks a lot different than most people because that dude, whenever he releases the ball, nobody is nobody can can test him, even if they're right in front of him, because of how tall he is. So is he's always got clear eyesight to the rim.
But one of the like really interesting dynamics that we haven't had a chance to see in a while that we were starting to get a glimpse of, and I think this is funny going back to the Sohon point guard conversation, is early returns were sort of showing that the Spurs were basically playing sohn as like the five on offense, and Victor was basically playing a perimeter position. So it was like this inverse looking thing of what it should be. But it was working really well. Victor
just wasn't hitting his shots. Now he is another interesting thing to kind of go back on earlier this season, Greg Popovic, I think it was their last they play we're recording tuesday. They play in Utah tonight. I think it was their last game in Utah this season. It'll be the fourth time they played Utah already this year.
By so ridiculous.
But they hate that, by the way, like these baseball things like I'm like, wait, you just played them twice.
What game is which?
Right? Right?
So we're just we're just wiping it all out right now, never to see him again the rest of the year. Yeah, but Greg Popovic even said they view Victor Wimbanyama as a perimeter player right now. And I think one of the the areas you're start arding to see little developments in is like he's he's getting opportunities at the elbow a little bit more. It's kind of like the Dirk days, right,
like the Dirt Noovinsky days at the elbow. If he can get into those situations and make people pay from the mid range, it's going to open things up even more.
But I think one of the things that it surprises me, even when I hear former players talk about how he needs to get into the block more, when you watch him play, he can't get leverage on anybody because he's so tall and they stick like these Dylan Brooks types on him and these Draymond Greens who can sometimes like recently against the Lakers, it was Lebron James like shoving a forearm into his back over and over, Like he can't get leverage on these smaller everyone smaller than him
defenders that that teams stick on him, and so it's tough for him to get into those those spots. They obviously try to run stuff where there are these little downs and he can come off a screen and catch it in the lane, uh and get up for easy shots stuff that they're they're using to get him loose around the around the basket. But like teams are always waiting for that, you know. The the last thing they want is when Banyama in the paint because it's kind
of game over. So he's really been developing the out shot. They have a ton of confidence in it. It's really been funny to watch, like Victor Wimbanyama getting a screen from Chris Paul and running the pick and roll, I mean stuff like that. He's he really is unlike anything
we've ever seen. And as he gets stronger, he'll get more opportunities inside, I'm sure, But for now they really do view him and treat him as a perimeter player who's going to get sort of some set you know, design plays here and there to get him loose inside. But in general this this dude's playing on the outside and and the Spurs are just fine with that.
How do you compare how he's being used, how Wemby's being used on the perimeter and contrast that with how OKAC wants to use Chet. Is it as similar as kind of the average fan thinks or are there nuances that we don't really see?
I mean, I think the one of the bigger differences between those two. And like, obviously they have similar capabilities in terms of, you know, what they're able to do on offense. But Oklahoma City has Shay Gilders Alexander all World MVP candidate handling the ball and you want the ball in his hands, and Chet has been a lot more of a pick and pop type of player, whereas it's kind of the inverse with Wen Benyama. He doesn't
really do a ton of picking and popping. He obviously does, and having Chris Paul and a Devin Bissell and a Steph Castle now to run the two man game with has has worked well. But like when you watch a Spurs game, just just notice how often he brings the ball up the court and takes like step back three is off the dribble And I think that's probably the bigger difference.
But the biggest difference between what.
Chet does and what Victor does is that Victor is the guy with the ball in his hands more often, whereas Chet is sort of the beneficiary of the gravity that Shay possesses. I think that would probably be the bigger different The biggest difference between the two, if that makes sense.
Is that a function, to you, Matt, of just the roster or is that a function of how Wemby sort of will demand to play? Like if you had a I know it's a lot to ask, but say you had a Shade Gilgess Alexander type player in San Antonio, would would it still operate the same way that it does now.
I mean, it's a it's a great question. I still I still think that because of like, even when you go back for you know, several years and look at Victor Wembanyama's tape and look how he's played for a while now, where he is like the guy he has the ball in his hands, it I would still venture even if he had a Shay on his team, I would still think that he would probably have more on ball reps than than Chet would, just because we've seen
it already. But but it's a great question. Uh, it's when you when you when you don't have a guy like Shay, Gilgess Alexander, it's a hell of a lot easier to be like, you know what he's the like when Binyama is developing.
Now, let's put the ball in his hands.
Let's get him accustomed to this job and what it entails and everything that he's gonna have to do going forward. But I still do think that even if he had someone like that, that there would still be it wouldn't be like apples to apples between he and Chet. I still think that he would be like I don't know, if you wanted to, if you wanted to make the Okay, see analogy, maybe he is like the Jalen Williams or
something on that team, if that makes sense. Obviously I'm not like comparing the two players, but in terms of their usage. Yeah, yeah, so I think it would be probably more similar to him than to Chet just because of everything the victor can do with the ball in his hands out.
Out West, there's like a lot of ambiguity in terms of how the standings is gonna look. Right Like, sometimes you look at a team like Sacramento and you say they could be really good or they could fall out.
Of the plan. Same thing with La both Las.
Yeah, and I kind of am curious in your opinion. Say the Spurs are somewhat hovering around the plan like Cusp, like six seed Cusp. At the trade deadline, do they become bias?
Is that like a realistic possibility or.
Is it stand just keep things flowing, or is it a situation where they're like the Dallas Mavericks a couple of years ago, and if we're not out of the play in then we're fined and miss the playoffs as a whole.
Considering how good the draft classes.
Yeah, I'm glad you asked this question.
I've been thinking about, like, not just that scenario, but some other, uh, what to me, are are really interesting potential scenarios. If the Spurs are in that range that you talked about, I don't think they're going to be buyers because I don't believe they see themselves as like, oh, we're a piece away from challenging for a title, and ultimately that is the goal for them right now. It's not you know, grab what the fourth seed or something like.
It's it's not get home court advantage or something at best in the in the NBA playoffs, like they want to be ready to go for it all, and they have all these draft picks come up, there's still a
really young team. So I think they're much more likely to stam pat than to be buyers because I don't think they want to give up this stuff for some you know, to be sort of premature in making the run to me, and I know this sounds crazy when when you're watching the way they're playing right now, but to me, the most interesting conversation is going to be around if they are in that play in bubble by the time the trade deadline rolls around, is someone like
Chris Paul, if he's playing well, gonna be a trade ship. Is Harrison Barnes, if he's playing well, gonna be a trade ship? Because like the way those guys are playing right now, there are certainly contenders that could use either one of them on their roster. And we've seen this from teams before where they like, go out, they sign this player or they trade for that player with the intention of like, Okay, this might be a piece for us later on. And because like Chris Paul's on a
one year contract, he's thirty nine years old. This isn't a guy who is likely who's going to be around for like when the Spurs are truly ready to go challenge for a title. And he knows that part of the reason that he came to San Antonio was to teach these kids how to play the game the right way, how to prepare the right way, how to practice the
right way. And so in my head, I'm thinking, like, if they're that good by the time the trade deadline rolls around, and maybe like the switch in their head has been flipped, and like the Spurs view this team as something like, Okay, they got what we needed out of Chris Paul, he taught them the lessons that we wanted him to teach them, and he he gave his stage thirty nine year old wisdom to these twenty year olds, like Okay, now let's go get more first round picks
or something like that. Like, to me, that's the more interesting conversation if they are indeed in that picture by the time February rolls around, which you know, to start the season. I don't think many people did, other than some.
Sort of say like say, if Mike Conley were to go down.
Or something, right, yeah, I mean for sure, or any number of teams there's like, you know, we could really use someone to initiate offense for us. And we've already seen injuries playing a major role in the NBA this season, as it always seems to do, as they always seem
to do. So to me, that is the more interesting conversation that we could be having later on in the year, because I really don't think that the Spurs are gonna be like unless it's like a no brainer young player becomes available somehow, I don't think they're gonna be buyers. I think they're actually more likely to be sellers, which I know that sounds crazy, but I genuinely do think that could be the case.
And if they say are sellers and obviously they have a boatload of draft picks and who knows, you know, we saw Landa get the number one overall pick when they had no reason to get the number one overall pick. To you, who's like the best player fit in this upcoming draft class to integrate into this burst?
Oh my gosh, I have not even I have not even gotten into that line yet.
No, that is one of those what sorry, go ahead, Like what.
Role I mean not even necessarily like a person specifically, but what like archetype of player? Like do you do you feel like is when you talk to folks on the team, like is really needed?
Yeah?
I think, first of all, it's it's still just versatility. But if we are, if we are going into the archetype, the fit so does speak. I do feel that the team needs more size on the wings, especially like when Jeremy Sohan is out. You can you just notice this size discrepancy at like the three and four spots. So to me, they could really benefit from another wing to
be able to pair with some of these guys. And ideally this is again this is going to be the case every single offseason because we know Howla what player movement looks like these days, and they're gonna have to continue to build something around Wemby, you know, every single summer.
But they need shooting.
It's it's gonna be a critical element to everything they do going forward. They have been really building the defensive side of things, like eventually there's gonna be a world where Jeremy Sohan, Victor wimbin Yama, and Stefan Cassel are playing together and that could potentially be just a monstrous defense.
It's a trio.
But to continue to add to that versatility, but they have not really and they're not. They have not been in this mode of like addressing a specific skill set in the draft. It's just who do they think is the best player, which is how you're supposed to do it when you're a rebuilding team, Like you're not looking for fit all that stuff. You just want who you feel is the best player available at the time. But
outside of Victor obviously who's shot. I don't know if he's ever going to be like a forty three point shooter, but you know, thirty five plus percent, thirty six thirty seven somewhere in there for his career is certainly attainable. And but other than that, it's like Stefan Castle, whose shooting has been a welcomed surprise, although albeit it's not elite.
And then Jeremy.
Soans shot, who is a work in progress every single day and he does work his ass off with shooting with the shooting coach Jimmy Barron. It is still a work in progress though, that's for sure. So I think it's size on the wing. They obviously are always gonna want defense, but size on the wing that can shoot is gonna be a huge deal for them going forward.
Nice, Before I let you go, I have a general NBA question cool for you? Who is surprise you the most this NBA season in a positive way? And who I think are you most disappointed in or you feel like, wow, this has really not worked out the way that a lot of people thought it would.
I think that.
This is this is gonna sound funny because I don't think people actually like this team, and it's probably mostly because of one player. But like the LA Clippers are just sort of hammering away and winning games with James Harden and a bunch of dudes, and I've I've actually just gotten a really big kick out of that. I don't know if I actually like James Harden or if like the James Harden hate got cranked up to a point so much it's so high that I like went
back to the other side of it. I'm not sure, but like I've I've really enjoyed watching the James Harden Zooboch Norman Powell show. I know, I'm I'm sure I'm leaving someone else out, but the Clippers are the first one that popped into my head. They just they it's they do this every year where it's like, even when people go down, they're just sort of steady, and Tyron and and Lou is just such a good coach. They have that the depth to make things work. We'll see
if Kawhi ever comes back. Hopefully he does, because we all enjoy watching Kawhi Leonard play basketball. But yeah, the Clippers are one that, uh is always especially the last couple of years. For some reason, I've always just enjoyed
like how solid they are no matter what. They obviously haven't hit the ceiling that that was the ultimate goal, but when you take that out of the equation of love, the how how they compete regularly, and then on the flip side, whoof it's either like you could go you could go through a number of teams here. I was really hopeful for Philadelphia. I wanted to see something like that work just like once for them. As entertaining as it is to just the seventy six ors soap opera
over the last however many years is always entertaining. But I was just kind of hoping that, like this would be the year that all of these you add Paul George, Maxie comes along, Jared McCain's been incredible, Like it just would have been I think that would have been fun if they were actually good. Now they might not even make the playoffs. Everyone seems so depressed. It just looks like a bad situation. The Pelicans are the most injured
team I've ever seen in my life. And then I look at a roster and there are some games where it's like, are any of these guys NBA players? They are and they actually do compete as best they can, but you get to see guys like Eves Missy and stuff like that, Jordan Hawkins, but they're just so injured.
It's unbelievable.
And the other one though, is like you brought him up earlier, but like Sacramento, they just went through the easiest part of their schedule and they're eight and ten and now they have like one of the most difficult schedules remaining. That's gotta be a bit of a scary proposition there, because they just have not looked together.
And I'm a big.
Tamar DeRozan fan, but it's like another one of these situations where it's like, I don't know if he's the guy for that team. He's a very unique player that kind of requires a unique type of system. He kind of becomes the system in some ways, and the Kings have been this like really free flowing, fast offense, all this stuff, and he just didn't fit that personality, I guess the way they've been playing. So I don't know,
things don't look great for the Kings right now. Those would be the three for me that that yeah, just haven't been haven't been great.
Yeah, the Kings.
It did feel a little not desperate, but it felt a little bit like he's the only high caliber bucket getter that was available, and so regardless of how the system was, we're gonna fit him in and see maybe he can take some of those fourth quarter responsibilities off.
But it certainly has changed their three.
Point shooting sort of profile. And yeah, it's gonna be fascinating to see how the West shakes up. But I'm I'm excited to see you guys play more. One of the better defensive surprises. Like you said, they're calling it air fifty one.
Yeah, that's been that's kind of taken off.
I was talking with someone with the team the other day and really really briefly and like people are trying to get it the nickname to like stick, and I don't think the Spurs are really having it, don't. I don't know, but it certainly has taken on a life of its own on the on the old internet, that's for sure.
Well, thanks so much for coming on, Matt Tynan follow him on substack. Like I said, one of the best, I think the best Spurs content out there.
Hop on stock now.
Because the Spurs are just starting to continue to go and Matt's been with them along the way on this journey.
Thanks so much for coming on.
Thank you, Thank you. Enjoyed talking to you.
Appreciate it. That's all the time.
That we have for this episode, but he checked big. Thanks to Matt. Go and subscribe to his substack called Corporate Knowledge.
It's awesome.
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