No, no, come home, Come home.
On this episode of the Heat Check, we have a very special guest, my guy, Jake Fisher.
He's an author. Folks don't know he's written books.
Uh. He's the author of Bill to Lose. How the NBA's tanking era changed the league forever.
I think that tanking. We'll talk about this another time. But like owners that just try to lose, I just can't stand it. I really can't.
Uh. He also is a newsbreaker newsmaker works for currently works for Bleacher Report, has worked for SI, has worked for SB Nation. Actually got his start at the Boston Globe, which I did not know until today.
Very very big ja, you know, very big jay.
Journalist Jake Fisher making some moves, making some moves, bust out on the scene, Jake Fisher out of fucking nowhere to just.
All of a sudden, breaking huge news. Welcome to the show, Jake Fisher.
That is a very kind intro. You know, I'd like to think I was like around for a long time. You know, I was. I was picking away with my axe at Slam and the SI. But then, you know, all of a sudden, we got thrust into this transaction world. So we're trying to make it work.
You know, how did you get into it?
Because I feel like you don't just bring I mean, it's not easy to just all of a sudden be developing the relationships where you break news? Did that come from? So this built to lose? How the NBA's tanking era changed the league forever? Did the relationships through that sourcing of that book end up lead you on this path?
Was it like break down? How you got here as like cogently as.
Pop Well, First of all, thank you for the very seamless and organic plugs of the book title. Multiple times my publish really regard for that. But to answer your question, and it's funny, it's honestly the question I typically get the most when I when I did talk on so such as these, but I mean at SI for years, I was writing all these dumb, silly features that people
wanted to talk about. Like I got coffee with Mike D'Antoni one day at like seven am downtown in five I had the Starbucks because apparently he is addicted to Starbucks cappuccinos. It's the only thing that is like close to resembling his time in Milan or all over Italy.
When he was playing and coaching the professionally and like stuff like I mean, there's a lot down the list of those types of like personality type stories, and I got to know people in the league by being someone who wasn't trying to call them about very pressing details such as the ones I'm doing now but flash forward. I got laid off by Sports Illustrated in October twenty nineteen when the company got taken over by new management,
leadership whatever. Unfortunately, my editor at Bleach Report, Chris Trenchard, I had a relationship with him just being in the industry for a couple of years, and he was letting me freelance there. I did some stuff like I remember I did a story about Trey Young before his All Star Game, how he was like hanging out with Chris paul as like a high school kid and going to Kevin Durant's apartment to watch T and T Thursday night
games when he was sixteen seventeen years old. I did some feature after the pandemic began about how the teams gearing up to go to the bubble were in seat set of high five and they were like tapping each other with his feet and sneakers to try to like avoid the germi vacation of you know, COVID and everything. And then twenty twenty one, beginning of that year, my editor Chris said, you know, we kind of need the away from the freelance stuff and the future writing that
you prefer to do. We want to go and do this more transactional game. So to bring a long ramble to a close, I wanted to do it in a way that was storytelling though, so I do try to write a story every week and something that I feel like we go back and forth a lot on the edits about trying to what's relevant, like what's going to be aggregated, and like I am trying to interweave those juicy tidbits within ultimately context, and the context just becomes what I think is more of a narrative in the
day to day game of this transaction beast.
So, how do you get to the point where people are all wanting to answer your calls.
Like as a new kid on the block, because I feel like all the things that you were doing in the relationships that you built from feature writing, now it's.
Like, hey, by the way, like I'm I'm just another one of those those news news leeches. I need info, and I think now.
I mean the leech thing is funny, like I do address the elephant of the room and kind of make fun of it myself when I'm hanging out with people, you know off the record. I mean a lot of people do. Still. I got was at dinner with a bunch of people a week and a half ago, two weeks ago wherever the dates were dan in New Orleans, and some guy kept kind of saying, like, you know, with Jake's here, Like, am I going to be some
unnamed source. I think you kind of have to steer into that and like recognize the elephant in the room. But also, I mean I've known a lot of his people now for over almost a deck guy. I kind of really started covering the league at the twenty thirteen draft, so it's been it's been a long time for a
lot of these guys. People of late, like whenever I meet someone new, Fortunately, I've found the last six to eight nine months or so, people kind of know me more so when it's a when it's an introduction, they're like, oh, yeah, okay, yeah, I know what you do, and that that obviously is a pretty nice lubricant to create a dialogue and a communication, but to get people to give me the info as to answer your question, Like what I do is just like when I got the kind of quote unquote offer
or the positional shift push from my editor, I called like ten to fifteen guys in the league that I knew had access to info that I had been talking with for years, and said, Hey, would you mind if I just did this once a week and started badgering you, Like, I know it's going to be annoying, but I promise it'll be like we'll have a good time with it, you know, like we're friends, or at least we've had we have some type of relationship, and that's kind of
where it got started. And every week I make those calls or you know, and that that list has grown and shrunk, and some people fall in and out because of what you write or because of what their boss
now doesn't want them to be saying to you. But I think, you know, with like the TIBs story this week, I just had heard that very loosely and then very more strongly, and then like I finally gathered all my intel and brought it to the highest ranking people that I could that would truly know, and they kind of confirmed and deny the little details, and then we write something up and move on to the next the next week.
Awesome. That's that's really interesting.
I guess if you're bringing it out into the forefront and saying like, hey, I'm going to be scheduling out my times to pester you and to badger you, that's and then they agree they kind of know what they're signing up for. Especially since you're you've got a pre existing relationship.
What are the dues and don'ts of news breaking, Like what are things that.
Get you cut off from this business? And what are ways that you think like help you be successful.
That's a great question, you know, And I will say also to kind of bridge us to the last question too. Now, also like people know that I and and for and not trust me. Obviously I think everything I think I'm talking in terms of my approach, I can't speak to that.
That's what everyone else is a pro that's I sort of implied for sure, But in terms of like the role that I can play in terms of like not the article, but the actual conversations, like there are many there's a lot of people in the media side of things. But when you have access to information that is considered a proprietary in terms of the NBA world, you know,
teams do want to know what I know. Like, there's a lot of people who like I can help connect the dot to create you know, I'm not saying like I'm taking credit for a transaction happening, but that's I mean, it's not just me again, this is what the role that we can provide as a collective of you know, the reporter in the NBA ecosystem. Like that's why at the end of the day, people have a general incentive
to talk. And I think recognizing that is the biggest to bring this to your second question, I think that's the biggest thing to have in your in your quiver when you're going into these conversations, Like if you if you go into it as oh, yeah, I am just a pest and I'm just coming to be annoying to you, like that works, I think to show a humility and and and the human aspect of the conversation you're having.
But if I call someone who like an agent of a player who is requesting a trader or a general manager, I'm talking about that team's trade conversations like you need to I think also kind of hold yourself with an authority and that like you have a purpose for that call, because people will try to bully you and walk over you and lie to you and try to not help you.
But if you if you present things I think in a respectful way, in a professional way, in a way that did not sound too corny like means business, I think people will respect that ultimately, and they'll they'll recognize them understanding for story coming out. You know their perspective and what they can help to try to shift it
in a way that might even benefit them. It's also your job to be thinking all the time what these people's motivations are and where they're hoping to get the story to be, and why they might be saying that or where they might know that information from. There's a lot of like second guessing I think you have to do in your head all the time to try to
separate the fact from the fiction. Because the NBA is I'm sure the NFL and baseball are very similar, but the NBA ecosystem is very much rooted in rumor and a lot of it isn't true. But a lot of it is coming from something that is true. So if you can peel back through all the bullshit and figure out the truth, you can kind of write something and write some tea leaves to things that are going to happen when you know then ultimately they do get reported someday.
Are there things you should not do, like, say you're at that dinner, Like, do those.
People do become unknown named sources if they're sort of casually mentioning or is that the first breadcrumb.
That you end up using to then go in a more formal basis to say, okay, like I can go and call up a contact and confirm the case.
Well, the general don't do is I mean, like if you are going to be a narc, like if everything people say to you is going to be written publicly, or you're going to be then spewing it and telling everyone that you talk to like no one's gonna want to talk to anymore. I mean there's a fine line between, Like, obviously, when I'm talking to people, like everything I'm hearing is ultimately coloring my overall understanding to make my stories more
accurate and more authentic and more knowledgeable. But at the same time, like you can write something that's very honestly damning about someone or a team, but also kind of leaving out a lot of details that might not necessarily be necessary or might not be confirmed, but you can kind of characterize them in ways that also can help a relationship continue, but also are still being fair and critical at the same time. I think there is a balance in that, And I think to your second part
of that question, like how do you switch? Make that switch flip? See someone you can call? I mean to me, like anybody is someone I can call. Like, especially coming from the perspective of to do my job as well as I can. I'm trying to get as much of the truth as I can, and the best way to
do that is to talk to literally everybody. So if that's the case, then I can call everybody in terms of someone who I know wants to talk and whisper and everyone wants to talk about other people, right those people that I can have those palows with on a semi weekly basis, you can tell pretty quickly right away. Sometimes people are very straight up about it, kind of like out of a TV show, And you know I can help you, you can help me, Like here's my card.
Let's stay in touch. Like sometimes that is very It is very like there's a it's kind of like an on the date where you're having a good conversation all of a sudden the conversation switches and you're like, oh, okay, like I'm probably gonna kiss this person now. Obviously the metaphor is whatever, but it is very similar. It really is interesting.
You talked about a couple of things.
You talked about the Tibbs news that that's been fascinating to We'll switch gears now into kind of like the brass tacks I guess of the NBA te because I think everyone's been wanting to know what's going on with the Knicks. Everyone's wanting to know, how could a new
management team come in hand select the guy. That guy end up winning Coach of the Year, taking a team that hasn't been to the playoffs, and god knows how long to the four seed getting home court advantage, obviously flaming out to a team that overperformed right, and then a year later after a lot of the moves that he wanted the management to make did not get made.
Guys that come in that are very clearly not Tibbs, guys like not defensive guys, say like Evan Fournier, say like Kemba Walker, and then a couple of key injuries. How one could see that management team who hands selected Tibbs going away from him and firing him so early on in his contract.
Can you just kind of shed light on that evolution, and.
Then how like maybe this team and how they've been performing late changes maybe the trajectory of where they go with Tibbs.
Yeah, I think ultimately, from my understanding, I don't think his job ever really was in jeopardy, being that, as I wrote yesterday and as I'll definitely say now, like, it seems pretty clear Leon Rose has never had any
intention of making the change at his bench. And honestly, I've kind of dipped off Twitter a bit in the New York World for the last couple of weeks months, Like when I put that story out, I was honestly genuinely surprised how many Knicks fans were not happy with that news, being that I think, I mean, I live here in Brooklyn, like a couple months, a couple of
months ago. I mean that bing Bong night feels very very very recent, right, And that was still so fresh off that playoff run, eat and Eat that even after they flamed out with Atlanta, like the Garden was back, the city was rocking, and like Tibbs was the guy. And it's really crazy how quickly the fans can shift gears.
And it's important because in a city like New York and in many cities, when when when the fans turned the tide to some degree that loudly, it can absolutely get back to ownership, which changes the direction of what
management wants to do, sometimes for worse. And I think it is important to recognize here that as much as James Dolan's gotten his flack over the years, I do think what I've heard, and it's been pretty consistent over my career, he seems to give his management free reign to do as they do please, which is what I reported this week that basically the word I got was that, you know, ownership. I don't know if it was Dolan specifically, but permission, you know, do what you want. If you
want to keep him, great. If you don't find a new guy, that's fine too. So that's at least interesting, but that also maybe might not be interesting at all, being that that's obviously just generally how it's gone, I think, to the roster point of it all, that's kind of been the biggest dynamic I think, and also being that time and again even last year, like during the regular season, teams that would lose to Minnesota, excuse me, lose to
the Knicks, Like I remember Minnesota. One time I was talking to some guys on that staff after they lost to the Knicks and they were saying, like, they beat you up and were playing four and five nights, and they don't like they're nights where you want to let go of the rope because it's just the Tim's defense coming at you. In the shortened year COVID, you know, shortness, with the weird roster crunches and all that type of stuff,
they called their way to the four seed. Juluce Randel has his career year that a lot of people in the Knicks organization were already saying back then, this is not going to be replicable. They're people with the Knicks at the time who were I mean and still to this day in New York, who were saying that, you know, he's not worth that contract, we should even consider looking
to trade him at that deadline, that conversation happened. I definitely have written this, but they never really did really entertain that that Julius was their guy that wanted to reward. He was the kind of focal point that was going to lift them continually through the playoffs, and maybe someone like Dame was gonna want to come right That was kind of the goal. And obviously we are not there right now. So I recognize why fans would want to
have a drastic change here. But everything I've heard, it seems like coach in front office are still generally on the same page, and they recognize the rosters flawed. They've got things to adjust and really restructure this summer. I do think they're going to try to be very active in doing so. I don't want to say that there's going to be a lot of activity, though definitively, because they seemed very destined to do that at the deadline.
And as I wrote also yesterday, the way the Nicks apparently operate as a front office in these negotiations, they get a little picky and they I mean no pun intended, but they really want extra draft picks all the time and all these deals, and it's apparently led to a lot of these trade talks falling apart. So if that continues in the off season, I wonder how successful they actually will be in really retooling this roster.
Do you think agents, like as a general rule, make great front office members because it feels like agents want to just and you've got a bunch of a bunch of examples of it not being great. You got one example obviously of it going really well with Bob Myers and Golden State, But like it feels like agents always want to squeeze out every last drop that they can, to the detriment of maybe harmony between the fraternity.
In the NBA.
And now you've got guys coming from CIA, right, Leon Rose has been doing this a long time. World Why West, who I consider sort of like from above the clouds, like you don't. He's got like a tower, a tower like villain like castle in the sky and it's like looking down, yes, and like nobody really sees him or knows what he's up to, but he's kind of got.
His fingers and everything.
Do you think that that that's something that we're gonna see moving forward? Do you think that actually like makes sense?
I mean, no, I don't and I don't want to speak like so definitively on it, because a, the Lakers, Rob Linka won a championship and it's only been it's only been less than two it's been two years since
Leon took over in New York. So if I learned anything like over my years covering team building and the book reporting, you know, I think it's it's important to consider the fact that, like a lot of times, something happens for good and for and for bad that you didn't expect to happen all of a sudden, Like you're Memphis and you have John Morant and you're set for the next decade. Right, So like if the Knicks somehow when the number one picked this yere right, Like, wow,
the garden looks a lot different, you know. So I don't want to definitely say that the end. And the Lakers, of course, like we already talked about, won a title and I still got Lebron, Like they got a lot of options on the table this summer. Like who's to say what those guys can't continue to accomplish, But it's there's definitely hasn't seemed to be a smooth process and a smooth transition, being that both those tenures have clearly been riddled with drama and a little bit of chaos
and confusion and deals falling short. And again the Lakers
won the title. But like at the time of the Anthony Davis trading, still today people on the league always talk about that being an overpay and that David Griffin did a pretty solid job and getting a strong haul when like there was no other option, like he wanted to go to the Lakers, the Lakers wanted him, like they I mean, they didn't they didn't really have a need and and you know, they did stuff to kind of sabotage Boston being a real player to go trade
for him and stuff like that, Like there was no need for the Lakers to have to pay that much, but they did. And so you take your hat off to the Pelicans, but also you raise an eyebrow a bit at the Lakers for that. So to answer your question, it's just I think a lot of these teams want to bring on these player rep type guys that these Nike people to try to you know, play this player movement game, but the apparel game and the agent game to sign players. Sometimes it's just about how much money
you can give them. And in the NBA, everyone can pay each other the same amount and the incumbent team can pay them more. So when so now like in this you know, no holds barred game, like you're all of a sudden stripped of your biggest weapon. How good are you as an operator? Now? It's that I think that's what it really comes down to.
Yeah, you mentioned David Griffins kind of led me to my next thought around the Knicks, and I guess where we're at with a team that all of a sudden has gone from being very very bad to being like much better than we expected them to be in the Pelicans, to the point where I wonder whether a guy who's you know, had like a Sambui career so far, a grey godin like career so far in terms of the amount of games that he's played and a lot of that being spurred by issues with conditioning and his weight.
And that's obviously Zion, right. So, like, if you're the Pelicans and if you're the Knicks, you know what happens to like in your what you've kind of talked about and seen, Like, what do you think happens to Zion.
I mean, what I've learned is that predicting the next revolution of that situation is a fool's Errand but yeah, I do think. I mean, the the overall context right now is that they're they're hurtling towards this extension, right and you know, will he take the qualifying offer? No one's ever done at blah blah blah. I mean, I think I'd be I'd be surprised if that didn't happen, right, Like, it's very it's it'd be historic for him to do so.
And this season has only made his you know, you just mentioned Sam Bowie and uh and Greg Oden right Like, if I'm Zion Williams said I'm taking as much money as I can get right now, guarantee long term, I mean,
I think that would be conventional wisdom at this point. Right, So that's the case when that clearly benefits New Orleans to some degree, if they want to even continue to be building around him, which people opposed, But come on, like, when this guy's been healthy, he's been what you why you took Greg Oden and Sam Boobie at at number one or number two whatever wherever Sam Belli went So it's like it's it seems thorny, But at the end of the day, like they built this team with c J.
McCollum and Brandon Ingram and Jonnas Valanciunas is having a career season and they've got these young wing pieces. Herb Jones might be like one of the better rookie I mean with him and Tea's tible just came in of late and I've been like two of the greatest defensive rookie wings, like of all time. Literally, So you throw those guys in and I mean, they seem to be a team that should absolutely be right with Minnesota in terms of like the back half of these like young
up and coming playoff teams now. So honestly, this could be a situation I think where we look back on again, the help is obviously the massive, big question mark, but we were having those conversations about Joelle and being at
some point too, and look where Philadelpha is. So if Zion can have a similar bounce back, and obviously different injuries, different people, different circumstances, you know, who's to say the Pelicans can't be if they make the post of the play in tournament, like that'll be a quote unquote posts in appearance like who's to say they can't be back in the postseason next season? And even raised up a little bit level with Zion in the fold, Like I think that's very much on the table. Still.
You mentioned also and you wrote about this recently, is all this Lakers drama.
I don't know where they.
Go, Like, I'm just thinking about I talked about this on the podcast earlier this week, and like, I'm probably more on the like on the cynical alarmis side. That's probably why I would be a horrible newsbreaker, because I just see, like Tea leaves in a way, and I'm very skeptical. You've got only three ways you can really make moves, right, You've got the draft, which they don't have no damn draft picks. You've got free agency but
they don't have any cap space. And then you've got trades, right, and then you have to have assets obviously to make a deal and to trade that matches salaries and that it makes sense for people, and a lot of times draft picks come in to those trades, which is a very like you said, thorny situation, is probably the best way or the most like optimistic way to say it.
To me, it only feels like there's one real asset that makes that has any likelihood, even if it's very little, like I think Russ obviously is difficult to trade.
That's a negative trade asset right now.
Given all of the low lights that we're seeing, I mean, guys are just making fun of him out there, like they're just literally clowning him in the media, on Twitter, on the court, in press conferences.
The amount of money is obscene.
Like to me, it feels like the only real asset to make this team better if you actually want to win a championship is the trade Anthony Davis, the only piece that you have. Am I wrong to believe that that's really the only asset that could be moved for something of value?
Well, I do think that. I mean, Taylen Horton talker was involved in a lot of conversations at the deadline, and you know, as I put in that next story to be very synergetic here, do you think that three team deal with Toronto and New York would have gone down if the Knicks didn't And that's what I've heard from from several accounts that that the Knicks asking for more draft capital was but ultimately had that deal fall short. So I do think Taylor still has his fans around the league.
I mean the recap for folks who for recap, for folks who didn't read the article, what.
Was the deal?
I'm gonna batch it completely off the top of my head, but it was definitely Taylor, Horton, Tucker, and Neurleans. Noel would have been in Toronto. Alec Burks and Cam Rettish I believe would have gone to the Lakers and Goran Drogic and at least the Raptors first round pick. That package that went to Toronto would have gone to New York and then and the Knicks. From what I was told was we're looking for more picks after that. So I mean, it wouldn't have been a dramatic increase for
the Lakers, I don't think. I mean, Alc Burgs would have been a messile ball handling addition, But I mean to what degree Cam Reddish I don't. I don't know what he is really in terms of a consistent rotation player. I don't think anyone really does, honestly. And then that's why he wanted to get traded out of Atlanta right to have that type of consistent playing time, So to bring it back to the Lakers, like, I don't know how much that would have done for them and the
Anthony Davis thing. When I wrote a big takeout thing on the Lakers two three weeks ago, I was surprised to see Lakers fans reactions how many of them wanted them to look into trading idea. I was, I don't think that's even remotely going to be considered from for everything I've been told, and not just for the clutch
dynamic of it all. But I just think like they traded all that stuff to New Orleans that we talked about to pair Lebron and Anthony Davis together, and when they were healthy and really consistent, they won the title. So I mean, people with the Lakers still talk about right now to this day. Maybe it's changed in the last three days or so, but they're still they're still singing the same two of if we're if we're healthy, no one's gonna want to see us all that jazz.
So I mean, if they can pull some magic this summer with a deadline trade or whatever, you know, a draft type trade or whatever, I'm not so sure to me With lebron'ze extension thing coming up, I've been saying this in conversations with people in the league the last couple of days. I wonder how him and his people will respond if they hear this podcast. But if I'm Lebron, I'm taking a pay cut. I think that would dramatically help the Lakers situation and help them add flexibility. I mean,
Brady did that in New England. I believe he did it in Tampa Bay. I think Peyton Manning did it in Denver. Like, honestly, that guy and take you take your hat off to him for building a global entity around himself. He's a billionaire, so you know, we're all whispering about what team he's gonna ultimately try to buy. Is it going to be this potential Vegas you know, addition or another team that like which team could get sold up coming here? Like if that's the case, why
does need the max? Like why can't he Why can't he take ten to fifteen million and create maybe even a MAX space to go sign somebody to come join them. You know, Like that's honestly something that I think should be talked about. If I'm in the Lakers world, I don't know if it's any if that's possible at all, but I do know that I think it's very unlikely Anthony Davis gets moved, Yeah.
Because it feels like that's the only other option too, right when you talk about roster construction and how much money they're spending and they've got a bunch of guys on minimum contracts and that's just not getting it done. I think if you're honest with yourself and you truly actually want a ring, and you wanted to get more championships, which is kind of the whole goal of this, not just to have a bunch of clutch clients playing with
one another in purple and gold. To because there's a lot of people who are gonna throw shay to Anthony Davis for that ring because they're calling it the a Disney like bubble ring.
Right to have a legitimate ring in an eighty two.
Game season, when you're on the road and have no asterisks around it, there's got to be something.
Yeah, I don't think that that's being considered considered right now.
Yeah.
I mean, it's not me who's saying that, but there's there's fans who call it the asterisk bring.
Yeah, they do. I'm not saying that, Please U.
I'm not saying it either. I'm not saying it either.
But no, I think I'm not. I mean I understand why, being that ultimately he has not performed for that degree since the bubble, like it's been clear. I mean TJ. Warren hasn't either. I mean the Sons will think are the only team that's really like bottle up what they had down there and took it. I mean, Miami's kind of back being a number one season in the East, right, But yeah, the bubble was an interesting subnote or footnote in the subtext of NBA history. Definitely interesting for sure.
And when you're twenty eight and you're nickname is street Clothes and you've got Achilles tendonosis, which is a degenerative condition, it's very difficult.
It's a precarious because I am twenty eight with achilles tendonosis.
So are you really what is newsbreaker? Jake Fisher and Anthony Davis, two guys that are twenty eight.
Play pick up a lot of downward before I play pick up.
So you're saying that the real the only way I guess that the Lakers can actually make a real title run is for Lebron to take a pay cut.
I'm not saying the only way, but I think it would help them a lot. I think that would clearly give them a lot more flexibility.
You did a piece on Zach Lavine, another guy who I think is playing out of his mind when healthy Chicago awesome. Definitely beneficiaries of the Lakers being cheap and not wanting to pay Alex Cruz.
Oh yeah, I mean they are.
They are.
I mean watching as a very quick aside watching winning time, which is causing obviously a lot of stirs, uh for people who are living.
Yeah, I saw I saw the pilot at All Star, and I mean in the author community. You know, Jeff Perlman is a is a is a whale of in the sports world. So I showt him a d M after the after the premiere and I said, I guess it was like a soft premiere. I said, this is going to be this is going to be big and he said, thank you man, Like why do Like? It's definitely yeah, they did not pull any punches in that storytelling, that is for sure.
No people.
I hit up some people that covered the league during that era, and they were not happy. They said they would not watch it. They were not happy with the historical uh storytelling, some of the details around of course Jerry West were people were very upset. So but when I when I watched it, though, I think the thing that stuck out was how committed doctor Buss was to making a team, to making a team a contender no
matter what. And I said when I watched episode one two, he would roll in his grave with this Alex.
Crew so stuff.
Yeah, No, I mean, look, a constant thing you hear in conversations around the NBA is that it all starts with ownership, right, And like I mean, Mark Cuban is, you know, considered to be this really competitive, bloodthirsty wanna be champion. I'm not saying he's want to be He's a champion. He won a championship, But someone wants to be a champion aire a year after year after year. There are teams who aren't. Right, Mark Cuban doesn't pay
the tax like I mean, I'm not saying. I mean, he's proven a willingness to do so when it came up. But like there are there are a few teams like Golden State and Brooklyn that are paying absorbent amount of tax every single year to go to go get this done. I uppers are obviously going to continue to spend and spend and spend. It's it's it's a real factor in you know, this arms race that ultimately the title ends up becoming.
Do you think Chicago falls into that because they haven't in the past been excited about overpaying or paying fair value over the course of history, even when they had Michael Jordan Wright and now Zach Colvin has made it very clear to the world, not just last year, but this year.
I'm a max player. I'm not going to accept less than the very maximum that I can make.
And now he's getting like PRP in his knee, he's got inflammation in his knee, and you're paying a shitload of money to everyone.
Including boos, like what do you yeah?
Do you think there's a possibility He did an awesome feature on him too.
By the way, I like that.
Piece a lot, Thank you, Thank you. It was a rare opportunity of the last two years to actually sit down with a player face to face and have a conversation. It was what a novel concept it was. I mean That's something I really miss and I think it's one part of this whole transaction world that I'd be curious what my job would be like if I was then, you know, going to someone to shoot around and saying, hey, uh, this is what I'm hearing about you and get their point.
But he's been very clear, like you've said that, I mean, he clearly views himself as one of these top guys and he and he has performed as such. I think, you know, the Bulls have obviously made move after move after move to kind of win now and build a thing around him to get him into the postseason, to show in their place to stick around with, but also at the time, like a couple of years ago, they also wanted to see him in that environment see if
he could get to that level. I think that question, those questions have already been solved, and clearly that throwing out three year, eighty million plus deals to de mar de rozen in his thirties like they're willing to spend
the loonso contract. I mean, Lavine's deal is going to be well over two hundred million dollars regardless of it he gets that all NBA Team Buch's contract comes off the books, I believe after next season, and they're already starting to I mean, any smartphont office is doing this. They're already starting to kind of hash some backup plans and who could be maybe bring in who could be a backup for him next year, but could be the
starter after like that type of stuff. I mean, I think our tours karnisovis at up top and from Mark Eversley on down like that, that staff is pretty filled out with people who are highly respected on the league, and our Tours comes from Denver most recently Houston before that. You know, teams that really combine all facets of the team building dynamics where the draft is important, trade and free agency is important, they really flex their muscles in
all three of those categories in their tenure there. So I mean, I iopick of late obviously stands out to me recently. And uh, I mean Patrick Williams is someone that they kind of targeted pretty quickly and he's a darling around the league. So yeah, to answer your question, if the success comes like clearly they've shown a ceiling now will have to see when they're fully healthy in the postseason. And if this team at least wins one round.
Like I think, obviously the excitement in Chicago from where the team's been of late will be pretty significant if they can continue to move forward and that they can continue to be a real threat in the East, which I mean everyone in the East that I talked to in terms of executives and coaches among those top teams, they viewed Chicago as dangerous, a threat to anybody. So if that continues, I think the Balls will pay. Yeah.
Yeah, it's interesting too because they might end up having to play Boston in the first round, and Boston is a buzzsaw right now. That is a series I think a lot of people want to see, and maybe at that point your expectations are just compete on a very high level with Boston, given the fact that we haven't been healthy, healthy all year. I'm hearing there's take. I'm hearing there's some Jake's takes. You're not just a newsbreaker,
You're not just a newsmaker. You have opinions, which is probably incredibly difficult in this space.
We've talked about this before.
I lead with takes, and then it's usually substantiated by mostly like things, very little things that I hear and a lot of Jake Fisher type reporting. So I just remember all the things that you've written over the course of time, and those and those prior to the show, just.
Dropping my doc throughout the whole the whole time here. So you did your homework clearly.
You know.
Here's the thing. I respect the hell out of you when you came out.
The one thing that I would say that, as you said quick aside, that is the most suspect thing you've ever written, is when there was clearly a hit piece being written about Nate Bjorkrin.
It wasn't yours, but you can tell it was like.
There was some going on behind the scenes to like take them out and do you know what I'm talking about?
Yeah, I mean so my recollection of that was that, I mean, around the deadline, the talk was starting that like, oh the nape Yurchen thing and in these bad and I remember telling my editor like, I don't want to be the bad guy, Like I don't want to be the first person to say this guy's gonna get fired after a year for being by all accounts, a lunatic. I mean, I don't want to. That's that's what everyone was saying. You know, so I knew that other people,
let's say, weren't going to write the full details. And yes, there is a series of events where one person tweeted something out very briefly on Monday night, and then another story came out on Tuesday that had a little bit more details, and then my story came out on Wednesday that was like two thousand words about it. Those details that I had, I had been working on quietly, and honestly, I will say seeing Tim Cato and Sam Amic write the Dallas stuff about her Alabob before all that whole
situation blew up, that honestly pushed me. I was like, man, I should I should have just written that bureau and stuff first. And it definitely got I mean, it took all in life. But yes, could continue with whatever you.
Were anyway, but you're not.
You're not just a news breaker, a newsmaker. I'm hearing that there are takes, So you've come prepared with things. The opinions, we don't know which direction that they're going. So I'm just gonna kind of like, what are some some things that grind your gears that you have some strong opinions about around the NBA all.
Right, this is very they're all general but and this is this first one is not that controversial, but you gotta get rid of the block charge. It is the dumbest rule possible. It's not a basketball play. When I play basketball at as a twenty eight year old with the killers, tend to notice this. No one's taking a charge because no one wants to get hurt because not
getting paid for it. And you know what, the game is fine and it's better and we don't have to worry about like when you're driving and then you pass it to someone in the corner, then you no longer have the ball in your hands and you take two steps because you have momentum and you just run into someone who's just standing there. That's not that's not a foul. That's just someone walking in front of you wanting to get hit. Like, that's not that guy who's doing that
should go play a football or lacrosse. That's not what basketball is. That's my first tick, and I keep going, or you gottam.
I actually like that take.
I think it's super whack, especially down the stretch, like when you see guys very clearly they're planning to kick out and then they make contact. I don't think that should be block war charge. Like I hate it when it's a block more.
Because it's like you just I don't. I don't know why this guy's getting credit for this at all whatsoever. So yeah, I agree, I agree.
There's there's another rules change. Is this is the second one and rules change.
This is an branding thought, all right, all the jerseys, all the jerseys. It's it's gotten to a point where it's horrific, like really really actually I found out, Yes, I found out recently in a G League game, two teams walked out both wearing white jerseys lately, Like I mean, we're just we're in this situation where like every team gets five new jerseys every year. The Heat had this like weird thing where in the Cavs to where every letter is different from the other one. This is an
obvious money grab. Yeah, it looks like a ransom note. It's an obvious money grab. I think it really ruins like cultural development of like a pride thing with that team because you don't like I remember when I was visiting college campuses in high school, Like my guidance counsel said, like when you're walking around the schools that are always wearing they're like they're they're like school of stuff. Like that's how you know the people. They are like happy
and like their school. So like if you're walking around town and like, I don't know when I see orange, I don't like this orange and like black, like I don't necessarily think nick. Maybe that's a bad example. I don't know, but like the Timberwolves lime green jerseys are an eyesore, you know what I mean? Like I don't know,
how about the terrible Yeah, so I'm over all the jerseys. Yeah, maybe you have just like one new one every year or like one alternate, one new alternate, and like one holiday, whether it's like they're on Christmas or like those Saint Patti Day's jerseys that used to come up, like those green Bulls ones like maybe that are like and you wear your Christmas jerseys not just on Christmas, like a couple of like the Christmas season, you know time, and
maybe there's like you know, the Hawks have a cool m located jersey. Maybe there's like a one holiday that every team has, maybe the heat and the signs and teams and we all do the Latin American you know, hell or heritage night jerseys that have pretty high Latin American population in their cities. Like, maybe that's there alternate, but we don't. We can't have five to six every year. Can't have it. It's too much.
The digital.
I saw this digital the digital Pizanos on the floor at Chase Center.
It's a digital ad on the floor digital.
And it's was it for the NBC Sports Washington Wizards versus Warriors and it was a Wizards. It was like a DC Italian restaurant probably paid ten bucks for that ad.
Max And and like when you walk over at your feet go go digital too. I hate that. Yeah, that should not be.
In the bubble. It first happened in the bubble because they had to do that for all the local rsns. That's but they only had like three courts. Yeah, no, it's And I remember Kia was advertising on the playoffs but they changed their logo, and I remember me and my roommate trying to figure out what the company was because we couldn't like recognize the new Kia logo, which I think is obviously the opposite of what advertises. Goal is.
And team take.
You have a team take, I do, but I have one more other one quickly. There should be a stat when you drive to the basket and it's like you get by somebody, not like you're just there, like you actually make a move, you create an opportunity for yourself and you miss, but someone then has an easy put back. There should be a stat for that. I checked with a couple of analytics friends on the league. There is not. That should be a registered accounted skill.
What do you think that would be called?
Like a no idea like as yeah, drivers, yeah, a mississist, I don't know, something like that.
Yeah, yeah, you could add that in like like whip in baseball.
Yeah. And my team take is that I think the Celtics are legitimate contender to win the title.
What a hot take. That is a hot take.
I don't think it's that hot.
But they're forty No, it's not. They're forty to forty to one to win it all right, Now.
They are good. They are Like I'm pretty blowing away by who they are. I was, I mean, yeah, there was all this talk in December. Oh it's not going well, Jaylen Brown, Desent Tatum one's getting traded, and now it's like, wow, that's celto star juggernaut. That team's not going anywhere. Everyone's untouchable, like it's it's changed pretty quickly.
It's crazy how fast, like Marcus Smart's return into that lineup, who was essentially a liability offensively a ton just his return, like they just all of a sudden just started sharing the.
Ball a lot.
They they're playing elite, elite defense I want to say, like top two defense in the league since that time period, just clamping teams.
Uh, I don't actually know what happened.
Uh, maybe just integrating the things that he may wanted to do and they actually just started executing it. Maybe making a couple of moves, you know, with Derek White obviously that helps.
And the emergence of Robert Williams.
It went from you know, what it led me to believe is like or think about, is how many teams are closer than we think to being good.
Because they were a disaster.
They were a disaster.
Last year for sure, And like Al Horford, I didn't think he would be helpful really either.
He's been great. I think yeah, I think ultimately that like what is the recipe of springing into success after being pretty poop is to have talent and that's ultimately why we're in this league where the Sixers are trading Ben Simmons for James Harden and teams are tanking and you know, Russell Westbrusk getting trade to the Lakers and all that stuff, because like when you have all stars who are playing at the peak of their powers, like
stuff just gets done. And they've got Jason Tatum and Jaylen Brown and Tatum clearly looks like to be taking even another leap as a general offensive you know, central hub of a team and the defense surrounding that has been what it's been. Jalen Brown is still an all star level player. Derek White addition Marcus Smart, Like it's just the same thing with Phoenix, right, Like Devin Booker took that leap. They bring on Chris Paul and here
they are, Like it's not really that surprising. I think when you've got talent and depth and defense and shooting.
Yeah, I can't let you go before I ask you my resident Brooklyn nets Okay, well, will we see Kyrie play home games because it doesn't feel right now based on the laws needing to change that we will. And two, like, how concerning is everything going on with Ben Simmons's back given his injury history.
Yeah, the back obviously. You know, I think people were looking at it skeptically at first, as like, oh, it's just a reason to not play in that March tenth game. I mean, it's something that's played in back to Philly, And from what I was told by someone very close the situation, as long as they're telling me the truth, this will be accurate. That he was on the court with Nash going well and then he tweaked something and
it's been, it's been. It was a setback, essentially, and that's why that these teams always talk about, you know, ramping up, ramping up, Like, I really don't think it's bullshit, Like I think teams take like working out playing with the anti Christmas in a high school gym is like they take that very differently than NBA game action, and as they should. So I'm not sure where his status
stands right now. I haven't checked in with anybody about it recently, but the last I was told was that, like, they really do only truly want him to be ready for April. So I think that calculus clearly won't, won't
and will not change that. They just want to be as cautious and safe as they can in terms of ramping him back up to playing, because yeah, I don't know if Kyrie Irving is going to be able to play home games this year at this point, you know, the city, I mean, there's starting to be this discussion of, oh, well, the Yankees, will they will then coming back? Will that have an added boost to you know, Kyrie's plight here of trying to make a special exemption quote unquote for
him or for anybody. But I mean, the city just fired over one thousand more employees over not getting the vaccine, and lifting the mask mandate is way different than lifting the vaccine mandate. I think the mask mandate being lifted was part of like the goal of the city to encourage people to get vaccinated, to try to or just
back and more to normalcy. So I was starting to think that, oh, yeah, now that Kyrie's pulling the stunt and going which was a stunt, Like I'm not saying that in any derogative way, Like it was a stunt to go to the guard or the Barclay Center and sit courtside and be maskless as a well known unvaccinated person. So I guess I don't know what the vaccine requirement
situation is that he was allowed in with. I don't it's the whole thing is obviously so murky, But I just I don't think anything is going to change in terms of what the city and the mayor are going to do to allow him to play basketball games anytime soon. If Brooklyn continues to go further into the playoffs, if they're playing in May and June somehow with him only
knowing at away games, maybe that can change. But at this point, like, I don't think there's any optimism that's gonna that's gonna happen anytime in the near future.
Wow. Yeah, that's that's interesting because they were optimistic at one point because I think they thought that when the vaccination requirements changed for visit for visiting like for visitors, for people who came in and watched the game, that that would change for him as well. And then obviously visiting teams that are non non vaccinated can play as well.
So the logic doesn't necessarily really correlate.
To the fact that a whole law has to change and thousands of people are being let go because of said law, and if you change the law, then what do you do with those people?
Yeah, and he's a millionaire who really theoretically could change this by just getting the shot. So and I'm not going to tell anyone to do what they I'm not going to tell ayone to do with the what to do. But that's a clear east the solution if the nets and Kyrie, do you want him to play on the game?
Yeah, Well, awesome stuff.
We got you out in the time period that I was hoping to get it out under. You're always insightful. We got to do this more, you know, here's here's let's test this out. So, Jake, I would like to I don't I don't have any interest in breaking any news, but I would like to regularly pester you. Is it okay if I call you on the phone, we have some regularly pestering type conversations.
Is that Is that okay with you?
Let's do all right? I think creating the commenser relationship to do that. I'm tually talking with you. Let's catch up.
Awesome, Thanks so much to Jake Fisher.
Definitely check his book out, Built to Lose How the NBA's tanking era changed the league forever.
Also, if you want to find him on Twitter. He's Jake L. Fisher with a C F I S c h e R, so definitely come out there.
Not as much of an active tweeters as I would like, but he is a writer as well, so check this workout on bleacher Report and we'll definitely have to have you on again