If you're tuned into Heat Check with Tristal Quick.
On this episode of the Heat Check, the NBA and the NBA PA have signed a new collective bargaining agreement, at least in theory, and it is the biggest news in the league since the Bubble. So many ramifications, it's so complicated. I had to bring on one of the only people qualified enough to break this down spot Tracks, Keith Smith.
It's actually spot Track, not spow Track. So we got that all settled.
So much to cover, Let's skip the bullshit, Let's get right into it and drop that generic ass beat.
So the biggest.
News of the year, probably several years, to be honest, is that the NBA and the NBA PA have hammered out this new collective bargaining agreement. We only know some of the details and there are major major changes coming next year, monumental changes. Before we bring on Keith, our favorite NBA guru, to explain it all to us, I just wanted to sort of break down some of the
things that are getting changed. NBA Commissioner Adam Silver and Players Union Director Tamika Tremaleo they should get a bunch of credit. Honestly, they work together to get the deal done before the CBA ends. And let's be honest, other leagues like the NFL and Major League Baseball.
They never do that. Ever.
They know they're going to get a bag from the new rights deal, and they're like, yo, before we get money from Amazon, Apple, ESPN, Turner, whatever.
A deal that's probably going to.
Be speculated around seventy five billion dollars in total. We should probably figure that out, right, We should probably have seventy five billion reasons to treat each other well. Because of a lockout comes, we are fucked anyway, labor piece for the next seven years.
Here's the four to one.
One hasn't officially been ratified yet, only part of it has been reported. This new CBA, though, has given existing players greater freedom on a personal level. Right they can invest in NBA and WNBA teams while they're a current player. They can now be sponsored by sports betting companies. They can smoke weed and not get tested, which I think is like one of the least important things, but hey, smoke on. If you want to smoke, you can be
sponsored by a weed company or a CBD company. They have continued to keep the one and done rule, so young kids can't get into the league. Veterans didn't want it, the league didn't want it. Nobody wanted it, really, but they didn't want to be bad guys. So college basketball remains the same. In terms of roster building, the CBA makes a bunch of changes. There's a new salary cap,
new luxury cap rules. It makes it harder to create these super teams, makes it easier for teams to organically build rosters through the draft a lah Oklahoma City Thunder. Some of the changes, like the sixty five minimum game qualification requirement for an NBA award, is going to affect salaries. It determines who is going to be eligible for the Supermax extension. That's a lot even just there. There's also major changes to the schedule. Adam Silver has gotten his
major n season tournament done. Some of the changes are going to impact the draft, so called Rob Polinka rule on how teams can sign second round picks so they don't end up losing them like they did on Alex Caruso because they don't want to give those players the mid level exception. Since the last CBA was like five hundred ninety eight pages of legal ease indecipherable.
We have Keith Smith, who.
Does this shit for a living, day in day out from spot Track. He is our resident numbers guru. We also ask him some changes about the TEA, what's going on with the NBA as well. He is here to break down the CBA and what it means. You can find him on spot track and on Twitter at Keith Smith NBA.
Without further ado, here's me and Keith interview.
I want to talk about the CBA because there's not that many people who really understand it, and you working for a SPoD track, and you being around the league for as long as you are, you're the first person that.
Came to mind.
So thankfully we already had this interview schedule.
When you took the time to absorb the.
Main changes in the CBA, what was your first overall reaction.
I think they made it so that the middle class of the league is going to have some significant advantages in acquiring players. They made it harder for the most expensive teams to acquire players, but they also gave them avenues to keep players that they already have. If I think the problem with the so called hardcap was always going to be Hey, if we're the Warriors, because that's the team everybody uses for as an example, and we've drafted really well and developed really well, why should we
get penalized and have to lose guys? And I think the NBA, basically along with the NBPA, said you know what, you're kind of right, but we still can't have you trading for everybody under the sun and signing a bunch of guys in that. So we're going to put in some limiters on you that'll make it hard. And it's not just the Warriors. The Clippers are in that boat. There's a handful of other teams that'll probably maybe in
that position over the next few years. But it's we're going to make it harder on you to do get new players that don't come through the draft and through minimum signings and the like. And then for the middle class teams, we're going to give you a whole bunch of ways that you can go get players that maybe you didn't have available to you in the past. So I think they're just trying to increase that parody around the league.
There's a lot of people who think that this is a these are seismic changes that we're not going to really fully understand for years to come.
In your opinion, how monumental is it.
I think they're pretty big. I think we're going to see some teams. Kind of buzzword right now is what are the unintended consequences? Right? Because it's always you get into this stuff, you feel really good about where it is, and then one thing we know that these teams do, they hire really smart people who find ways to work around all the rules they put in place. It's a
big part of it. I always say, you know, the the CBA is a agreement to make it fair, and then it's people's jobs to find ways to work around that inherent fairness, to give themselves advantages, to find loopholes, all those things. So I think what's gonna happen is it is going to take years for this to fully play out, because it's not like one all these changes are coming in immediately next season. It's some of these things they've already said they're going to be phased in
over a period of time. And I think that's fair to the teams because if we stick with that Warriors example, well they've already built the roster they've built. It's not necessarily fair to say, all right, hey, all the tools you have, you lose them all right now. Now you've got to kind of reset and restart right from square one. So I think we'll see some phasing into some of
these changes. I think the other part of it, too, is we got to see how teams react to these things, because teams are gonna make different decisions than they might have otherwise. We may see teams say, you know what, once we're up and over this second tax apron, which I think sounds silly, So I'm calling it the super
to because I think that sounds way cooler. Yeah, so once you're over the super tax, you're gonna be in a spot where, wow, you know, we really got to resign our own guys because we have no other way to get talent. Or I think the other option is we're in a position where some teams are gonna say, all right, you know what, we gotta let player X go because we got to get our books in order, and the only way is to start shedding some salary.
So we're gonna let him go, and you're gonna just see differences in you know, roster building and those kind of things. I think drafting well, developing well. It's gonna have more importance than it's maybe ever had in the league because having one cost control players is going to be huge in those things. But these, again are changes we're gonna it's gonna take us probably three four years, right into the middle of this six to seven year agreement to really start to feel the full effect of it.
Was reported that there were like hundreds of proposals throughout the time. What was the NBA itself, the league trying to achieve with these changes and what was the MBPA trying to achieve with the changes?
Yeah, the good news is it seems like they went into this on roughly the same page with a lot of the stuff. The first big thing that they were really good with was the revenue split. That it's essentially a fifty to fifty split. It can range from forty nine to fifty one, but it's essentially fifty to fifty. Once you're good there, that makes everything else easier. I'm not gonna say it's easy, but it makes it easier.
And I think you know they were. It's funny. I was told direct by someone involved, was Yeah, the one and done role negotiation was like NBA doesn't want this. NBPA doesn't really want this, So why is this a conversation. Well, neither one wanted to be the one to say like, hey, we don't want this, because then they look like the
bad guy. But I think the NBA's main goal was, let's increase some of this parody and let's make sure we are not getting into world where hey, if you're one of the most richest teams in the league for lack of a better term, and you are in a big market, you can just outspend everybody by a level that the playing field just is vast and separated. It starts to look a little bit like, yeah, we have a cap, but what difference does it make if you can just keep adding salary and keep adding salary. So
I think that was their goal. I think the mbpa's goal was, all right, we can work with you within that, but what we want to do is if you're going to cap those top teams on how much they can spend, it can't be that that just goes away. We need to push it back into the market somewhere. Because their end goal is now with the addition of a third two way spot, they're gonna have up to five hundred and forty guys in the league at a time, and it's we're going to take care of five hundred plus players.
It's not just about Lebron James and Steph Curry and the guys who make forty to fifty million a year. We got to take care of all the way down. And I think that's some of the stuff that they they wanted, and I think in a lot of ways they came to some pretty good agreements on that stuff, where it is all right, hey, we're going to give here, but you give here, and that rebalances and we'll see how that rebalances the league ultimately.
In the end, Draymond was very upset. He tweeted that the players got screwed. He said, I don't understand how we are the driving labor of this entire system and we end up, you know, getting the short.
End of the stick.
What do you think if you had to guess, because I'm sure you know there's a lot of things that he could have issue with. What do you think is there any one thing or a couple of things that would make him feel this way or have other players feel this way?
Yeah, I think there's a few things with that. I think the first was that was probably an immediate reaction because the first handful of things that came out were, Wow, this doesn't look great for the players. It was kind of that was like the Saturday reporting. When we got into Sundays reporting, it was like, whoa wait a minute, they can invest in NBA teams and WNBA teams, They're broadening what they can be corporate partners on and those
sort of things. And then when you saw a lot of those changes, like, all right, this makes a lot more sense. I don't presume to know what details Draymond Green had and didn't have. I can tell you I know I've talked to people on both the player side and the team side. They don't have all the details yet because this is kind of agreed to in principle
and they're still hammering stuff out. That's why we don't have the ELITD full term sheet, and it's like every two hours we're getting like, here's another detail, because it's kind of all right, we finished it and go. So I'm guessing it was probably a bit of an overreaction
to the immediate reporting on it. And I think there's also a this was personal to him because in a lot of ways, you could call some of those immediate measures like the Warriors measures of like, hey, we can't have another Warriors come along, right, And it's funny because, and I keep using them as the example, even in the last couple of years, the Clippers have outspent everybody.
So I think what we run into in this situation with these guys is they run into a spot where it is, hey, like we want to you know, I'm going to spout off, but it's because this is hurting me and my team and if I resign here, like we're not going to be able to go sign other guys and all these sorts of things. So I kind of get where he's coming from because I think in a sense, he's just trying to take care of him himself and the guys he's most immediate with right now.
Do you think that the league does not want dynasties, It's.
A good question. I think they welcome dynasties. Like kind of what the Warriors have been, which is the core of the team was drafted, They were developed by them. They kind of came and grew up together and came into prominence together and then they've made really smart moves
around those guys to kind of supplement them. But if you look at their main guys, because everybody has a and then I don't mean to denigrate like Dante DiVincenzo and the Jamichael Green, but every team has guys like that, right, a guy they signed with the midle level exception, a
guy they signed on a minimum contract. But if you're the Warriors, other than Andrew Wiggins, which was shrewd salary slot management by all right, Hey, Kevin Durantz going to Brooklyn, Hey, why don't we make that a sign and trade double sign and trade where we get D'Angel Russell and we preserve that thirty million salary slot. And then it was all right, now we're gonna move him on to get
Andrew Wiggins. But outside Andrew Wiggins, every single guy in their rotation they drafted and they developed Curry, Thompson, Green, Looney, Pool, Kaminga. Those are other own draft picks. So I think the league is in a spot where if you do it that way, and I don't I hate to say any
way of building a roster is the right way. I think there's a million right ways, and there's definitely some wrong ways for sure, But if you build it in that way, we're gonna give you the ability you can keep it together, keep paying all those guys because we're not restricting you on paying those guys, and just keep going.
So don't think there against dynasties. I think what they don't want to see is they all, right, hey, we loaded up in two years, and then we kept adding, kept adding, kept adding, and then all of a sudden, it's, you know, we've outspent everybody by you know, one hundred million dollars, and you know, we're we're just kind of I think they don't like the Clippers kind of run of let's just keep replacing and then all right, hey this guy makes twenty five we're going to turn him
into a thirty five million dollar player, and those kind of things. I think that's where it gets really messy for the league. The league doesn't like that kind of team building because then it just looks like the rich get richer.
Can you explain how it fundamentally changes how trades are made, kind of in the technical way.
Sure, yeah, So from the details we know right now, the kind of normal everyday trade between two teams that are well under the tax or maybe just at the tax line, that'll pretty much stay the same. You'll have a little bit of a range where you can work in. You might be able to trade a twenty million dollar guy and bring in somebody who makes twenty five million, and that's kind of the range it's always been in.
But for these so called super tax teams, the big thing is they can't take on any additional money in trades if all the reporting proves to be accurate. So what's going to happen for them is if I want to trade a twenty million dollar player, I can only bring in twenty million or less in salary. I don't have that ability to go get somebody else. And that's just gonna make things a little bit difficult on them. Now I mentioned before, smart teams are gonna find workarounds,
they're going to do things. What we may see end up happening is, Okay, that guy who's on a roster makes twenty million, we're going to re sign him for thirty million. Mostly so now we have a thirty million dollar trade chip and we can go get that twenty five million dollar player or a thirty million dollar player that wouldn't be available to us prior. So that's the kind of roster maneuvering I think you're gonna see from
some of those teams. It's going to become a lot more about salary slots than essentially the players that are filling them. And that's sometimes even me salary gap is like, that's a I feel gross thinking of it that way, because it's like there's still human beings and there's still players. But at the end of the day, I don't feel too gross because that guy's gonna make twenty five or thirty million, so you know, kind of is what it is.
You sign up for that much money, you're probably signing up to maybe be traded.
Yeah, what what blockbuster trades for those who you know, maybe don't know happened recently that would not be allowed in this new CBA.
Yeah, and there were there's a handful. So the immediate ones that come to mind this year are Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving because both of those teams, Phoenix and Dallas, would be uh, you know, over the super tax or into the super tax, and in that position, they would not have been able to take on money, which both of them did in their trades to get those guys another uh, you know, if we go back, James Harden
to Brooklyn is one even one from this summer. A team that's not necessarily super expensive, like Alcolm Browgdon to the Celtics is another one that might not have happened. So I think we're in a position where, yeah, a handful of these trades may not have happened. That have happened otherwise, anything that was even something has kind of low key, low end, that nice move, but no one
really cares about it. Like even like Mike Mescala to the Celtics right before the trade deadline kind of buzzed was they brought him in with sending no salary out the other way and even in or sending very littles out the other way and brought him in via an exception. And that becomes a one where that wouldn't have been able to happen, even a small minor deal like that that was, hey, we're gonna add some bench dep for a playoff run. You wouldn't have been able to do
those things. And those are the things where where we're going to see teams have to have a different strategy on moving forward.
So I don't want to be one of those people who puts on a tinfoil hat. But this is the first thing that came to mind as you said that Kyrie vice president of the NBPA. Is there any chance that that factored in this new CBA factored in to Kyrie seeing the writing on the wall and saying, this is kind of my shot to get to another team and therefore as well as Kevin, if those both of those trades weren't going to be possible moving forward.
Maybe I don't know how deep they were into the negotiations at that point that all that went down. And I tend to like anytime I think I have Kyrie kind of pegged, I realize I'm completely wrong, and I don't know anything about the guy. He remains, you know, one of the more confusing players in the league too to me, And I don't even necessarily mean that in a bad way. I just you know, he's just there's things I just don't understand with him. So it's it's
certainly possible. I think we you know, he may have been like, hey there. You know what I know through negotiations is they're tightening things up, They're going to make it harder on us to figure things out. But I think we're in a position where, yeah, it's probably one of those things where it's this just was kind of an offshoot, and I don't know how much he cared about that. I think it was much more other reasons
where he's like, hey, this nets thing's going nowhere. I can't get to the Lakers right now, but I still want to get out of here, and then I'll figure out my next move after that.
Let's talk about the ramifications though, because it feels like it's the death of super teams to a degree.
Yeah, it's going to be very hard to put together a super team on the fly because and it's already kind of hard anyway with some of the things that have happened with the cap and the like. But it's really I think now your super teams are going to
be more. Let's use Oklahoma City as an example. They've drafted really well, They've got a bunch of really good young players, and they've got flexibility while there's still a quote unquote cheaper team roster wise, to add a bunch more talent in as they kind of build this thing up, and then what happens is they'll be able to build all the way up to becoming potentially one of these
super tax teams. And that's how you'll build your super team is you draft well, you develop well, you add talent while you're cheap, and now you've got your eight nine to ten man ross filled out with a bunch of really good players. A little bit of moves you can make here and there around that, but that's how
you'll build your team up. I think the days of teams, Hey, we're clearing the deck right where we're we're going all the way down to barely any salary on the books, and we're going to go get three max free agents.
I think what we've seen, and I think it's a lesson the Lakers have taught teams over the last couple of years, is if you don't hit on the exact right three guys and then nail all of your minimum signings after that, because that's essentially all you have left, you're going to struggle because if those guys miss times or miss games, rather all of a sudden, you're in a spot where you can't win because you're rolling out guys who are you know, fringe NBA players for you know,
twenty five thirty forty minutes a night in two many of these games. So I think that's kind of gone by the wayside already. But I think even more so, it's gonna be draft develop ad talent while you're a cheaper team, and that's how you build up to, you know, the next kind of dynastic type teams.
What about players that are going to be super Max eligible and may not be exactly in love with their current situation. It feels like it's a lot more difficult for them to be able to get to another team or force themselves to another team, given how this new CBA is operating. Do you think that this is one of those situations where star players will end up signing shorter term deals so that they can figure out where they want to be in free agency.
That's a good question. This is where I tend to lean to the history of things, whereas when you put the most possible money in front of a player, they almost always take it and right wrong or indifferent, And I tend to be a little bit more indifferent on it. I don't mind when a player takes it max contract and then turns and says two years in and I don't really want to be here. Trade me. And why I'm indifferent about it is teams do it all the time.
Teams sign guys and then they're a year into a deal they're like, hey, it's not really working out, we're gonna move them, And I don't know why. Collectively, as you know, media and fans of the NBA, we've decided that's okay. But when a player tries to do it, it's like, hey, you signed a contract, so did the team.
You know.
I also wouldn't have had a problem if the NBA, and there's been no reporting of this in the new CBA yet. We'll see if it's something that comes out later put in more restrictions around a trade, whereas, hey, you signed a super Max, you're not trade eligible for three seasons of it, and you got to play out more than half of that contract. Maybe that isn't there. I don't know. I know that was one of the
you said earlier. There were hundreds of proposals. I know for sure that was one of them that was on the table. But to answer your question, is I tend to think when players really want to be somewhere, they'll make it happen, especially if that team really wants them to be there. There's ways to make it happen. One of the cool changes that they got rid of, but that came out just in the last couple of days, is the restrictions on how many designated players. Those are
tend to be like the super Max guys. It used to be you can only have like two of one type on your team and two of another type, and only one could be acquired via trade. They've eliminated all that, so they basically said, hey, you want to get you know, ten super Max guys somehow on your team, good, good luck, And now we're gonna limit you because you're gonna be able to pay you know more and add more talent around them. But you'll go nuts. So I think we'll
still see guys. I think if anything causes short term contracts, it's gonna be. Every player knows the media righte steals coming, and what may come out of that is all right, We're going into a position where I'm better off signing a two or three year deal here re signing in the summer twenty twenty five, even though they put capsmoothing in so we're not gonna see you these twenty sixteen
cap spikes like we saw previous. So I think that changes things a little bit there, but we may see some guys play that kind of game.
Besides the Lakers and the Warriors, what teams do you think this deficits the most?
And what teams do you think this benefits the most?
I think the teams that can get kind of dinged by this a little bit are teams like the Celtics, the Bucks, teams that have been they've been in the tax but they're never been at the you know, the Warriors, Clippers, Lakers levels of the tax. So I think that's where seventeen point five million over the tax line, that's a lot, but it's not like crazy right now. I think we're
sitting with six teams above that. So we may see those teams say all right, we gotta but probably not one of the star guys, but we got to move on from one of these kind of mid mid range salary type players just to rebalance. We have flexibility because otherwise it's we're really locked into this roster. Teams that are maybe a little older, so like Dallas is slightly older with some parts of their roster, so like they're in a tricky spot. The Buck's definitely older with parts
of their roster. They may look at it like Chris Middleton is going to be a free agent, and they may say, hey, we resigned Chris Middleton to a four or five year max deal or anything close to that.
This is it.
This is our team for the next you know, several years, unless we make trades. And they may say, all right, you know he's had injury issues. Maybe they've seen something in his play where they're like where we'll be Okay, we'll go a different direction. So I think they're gonna be different. I think the teams that benefit it's the teams that I think have pretty promising young cores and then can add to to those guys here while they're
still on the lower end salary wise. So I already mentioned Oklahoma City, but are Landows in that boat, Houston and Detroit if they can flip things, well, somebody's gonna get Victor wembin Yama. That's like already a huge add to your roster and you're gonna flip. The Spurs have generally been pretty smart in those situations, so they may
be able to turn things around. So I think those teams that have pretty good young cores that you can see, I can see that being a playoff core in the next couple of seasons because what they have the ability to do is go add talent to those groups before they get super expensive and fully lock into what they have now. So I think they're the kind of teams that will benefit a little bit here.
Even if they tried to go after a big free agent and they didn't have the salaries to match.
Yeah, I think so, because I think what you're gonna see in those like again, I keep using the Thunder as an example here, but it's it's because they think they're the best one in the league, really good young players, pretty full roster, right. They don't have a ton of roster roles. It's not like going into this summer they have to fill ten roster spots. They really only have about two or three open roster spots. They'll are gonna have almost thirty million in cap space to do it with.
So I think back to remember a few years ago when Philadelphia was like, all right, it's time to start winning. They went out and they signed JJ Reddick to a one year, nineteen million dollar deal. There was like, what a ridiculous overpay for JJ Reddick. Well, Philly looked at it and said, look, we only need like two guys, we have all this cap space. Let's give a whole bunch of money to JJ Reddick, who proved to be a really good fit, helped them get into the postseason.
And then that's how we're gonna do it. I think you're gonna see Oklahoma City say there's one guy that we really target, we think fits what we need, and they'll be able to go get that guy and they may be able to overpay him four year or two. As long as you do it for a year or two, not the end of the world, because the NBA just moves so quickly with the way they'll turn over rosters. As long as you're not locking into a terrible deal
for four or five years, you're gonna be fine. You'll be able to move on from it and get out of it quickly enough. I think that's what you're gonna see as teams like that do those kinds of things where it's like, all right, let's let's let's kind of go here. And I think you're gonna see some free agents are gonna look and say, oh, that team got
one minyala. All right, I can be the guy now, me and him, we're now taking this team to the next level and to the playoffs and all that, and a lot of these players they love nothing more than like, hey, I'm the conquering hero who like you know, I wrote in here and you were awful and now we're a playoff team. You'll shower me, you know, with love. And it's yeah, you were a part of it. But there
are other reasons too. That's something that you know, we know, free agents love, especially if the money's basically the same just about everywhere for them.
Yeah, like a veteran contract for someone who you think can be a table setter all while like what they with the thunder kind of gotten Chris Paul on a short term deal.
Kind of a deal.
I am curious though, because this feels the most murky, and it feels the most murky in terms of conflicts of interest potentially, but also murky in terms of we don't really know now players are going to be current players are going to be able to invest in NBA and WNBA teams. But from what I kind of can gather that this is only happening through the NBA PA selected private equity firm, Like, what are the logistics of that?
Yeah, it seems so. This is something I try not to speak too in depth about things I don't really understand, but I did a lot of asking because I was very confused on this because I was like, wait, so they're gonna because the way it initially came out was like they could get ownership stakes. And my initial question was, so if I play for the Lakers and I own three percent of the team and they trade me to the Rockets, what happens to my three percent? Like where
does that go? And then I, through conversations through subsequent reporting, my understanding is what's going to happen is it sounds like there's going to be portions kind of carved out of different places within the league as a whole and within the individual teams, inclusive of the WNBA as well. Will be able to say, hey, aportional what you're giving me in my next contract. It'll run through the through the NBPA, who will manage it as a collective through
whoever they choose to manage it. Probably no different than a lot of the ways are like four oh, one k's or run and those kind of things. But it'll be we've chosen them to run this, and then that's
where it'll be. Hey, as long as we all keep doing what we should do, this should be a rising tide lifts all boat situations where yeah, the teams are gonna go up in value, they're gonna be better, but my stake in this is gonna go up too, And I have more of a stake, and I feel like more of a partner with the league and with the teams as opposed to just a contract employee where I'm just you know, all right, I'm under contract and this is what it is, it's gonna be. We can really
push this up from here. So I think that's gonna be kind of how that works. I'm very curious to dive deeper into that when we get the actual CBA to understand it more fully.
I am curious too, and obviously you probably don't know, but the first thing that comes to mind, outside of just what teams are going to be in that fund, is it going to be every team? What happens when teams get sold? Do they distribute that wealth across the ownership group? But also like how does that affect the WNBA. Do we see the WNBA salary cap now explode and
invest in more of these young and up and coming players. Specifically, you're watching players like Angel Reese and Caitlin Clark bring in three and a half million viewers on TV. I guarantee you Caitlin Clark's not gonna want to get paid Twitter and seventy thousand dollars on a super Max deal which he makes like quadruplevet in ni own money right now.
Yeah, for sure. I think what we're going to see with the WNBA, and we've we're starting to see this happen little bits, like little incremental bits, is salaries are going to start creeping out more. I think we're also going to see probably expansion of the WNBA where there's going to be new franchises because the single thing, the biggest thing I hear is there's a ton of really good players out there that are buried on these benches
because there's so few WNBA teams in comparison. So what happens is, I think you combine those two things, and I know one of the big things that they be talking to different people within the NBA is kind of the governing body of the WNBA, if you will. One of the big things I've heard through them is we don't want WNBA players to have to go to Russia in the WNBA offseason to play. We want them to play in the WNBA, them play national team commitments just
like NBA players do, and that's it. We don't want them having to play in two professional leagues just to be able to make a living like, that's not where they want it to be. And I think EVENTUA will get there. And I think this is part of it. We've seen countless NBA players, especially more in the recent years, come out in support of the WNBA, So I think part of it is you're going to see them, Hey, why they got roped into this. I'm not just investing
in the NBA. I'm investing in the w NBA, in the game of basketball as a whole.
Yeah, I'm curious also about.
The the players who are now able to sign non gambling endorsement deals with sports betting companies.
Makes sense of that for me.
Yeah, this was one where I saw a lot of reaction where people were like, oh no, And I saw a couple people tweeting like the Tony memes from Blue Chips, you know, of like you what do you mean you took money? You know, and it was you know, it was only one time, coach, you know, and it's one time. And like, I think where this would be a problem is if player X you know, tweets out, hey, bet
on me to get over twenty points tonight. That's where it's like, oh, that's shaky, right, because then it's because then is it going to be you know, the gambling company says, hey, you know, we took way too many people betting you over. Can you score nineteen? Just to make sure we're all okay here? Like, that's where it gets real messy. I think it's probably just gonna be, hey, you want to bet bet with you know, this company, And that's just going to be the extent of That's
what I think it'll be. It maybe extends into you know, hey, you know, I can't bet on the NBA, but I love to bet on you know, uh, the NFL or you know, well whatever it is, or you know, whatever it.
May be no games or whatever.
Yeah, exactly, I think we're going to see things like that where it'll be a player will be into commercials for you know, one of the big companies, but it's not going to be specific to like, hey, bet on my team to win the championship or anything like that, because I think then you run into competitive integrity issues and all sorts of stuff that they don't think the NBA wants to be involved in.
Yeah, I was curious about that too.
Do you think there's a possibility we start seeing these quote unquote endorsements like almost like Manning cast type stuff where you've got like a Draft Kings has a Draymond Green and a Charles Barkley All Star Weekend second screen experience, or maybe now fan duel sponsors, you know, the podcast p type of a thing. Yeah.
I think we could see definitely things like that, because I think the NBA realizes they're smart at the end of the day, and the MBPA there's money to be made, so let's go make more of it, right, Let's go get our chunk of it. By Hey, if we can increase these things, and we can do that, I mean we're seeing in arenas all over the country, we're popping up these you know what you know we're gambling is
legal sports books. It sounds like right on site where it's like, hey, you can make your bets here, and I know in the states where it's legal, there's all sorts of stuff being pumped into you know, hey, grab your phone and you'll make a bet on the game, and those kinds of things. So I think we're going to see them lean into this. I don't think it's going to be you know, man, this is a proliferation
of a million guys, you know, go get amble. I think it'll be probably just a little bit of a slow burn, but eventually it's gonna get there, much like it has become over the last couple of years, where it's just becoming more and more ingrained in the everyday life of sports fans.
I forgot to ask you this to circle back really fast about the ownership element, and we'll move forward on the award stuff. But is it possible with how we're seeing the ownership stake work, that a Lebron James playing in the NBA could own an expansion team or a part of an expansion team.
Yeah, it's it's one of those things where right now I don't think think that's something they're set up to do. So we're gonna see if that's where this goes. My guess is this whole invest in the league is a gateway to direct ownership stakes in teams, and I think that may be where this goes going forward. I mean, I think it was if I'm going way back here
and you know, completely different environment. But when like Magic Johnson came out of retirement, it'd give up his ownership stake in the Lakers because he was gonna play again and those kind of things. So that's where it becomes pieces of things like that where I think right now that's probably not They're trying to do it through this more general investment in the league as a whole, But I think this is the let's start here and then
that'll be the gateway too. Eventually, Hey, you want to own a chunk of the team you're playing for, Yeah, we can make that work and we can figure that out. Obviously, there's gonna have to be a lot of guardrails on that because you know, if you're traded, but if you sign somewhere else, what if you do this, because they're not gonna have somebody owning you know, Hey, I own three percent of seven different teams, Like that's not gonna happen.
But we'll see where that goes. And and I think that's a very interesting way to kind of, you know, build a different form of engagement into the franchise as a whole, because now you're again you're you're not just an employee, You're you're you're part of it, right, You're you're part of the whole deal all the way through.
Yeah, I want to talk about this because I think it's under discussed. The players now in this new CBA have to play at least sixty five games to be eligible for any NBA awards as well as all NBA So who wanted this?
Yeah? I think this is probably one where collectively both sides, the NBA and MBPA heard the screaming about load management. And I think the biggest place that comes in is, you know, I'm based out of Orlando. It's the Orlando fan who bought tickets to see Lebron one time a year and I played last time. I'm not playing tonight. Right in Orlando, they get a lot of guys on back to backs because of Miami. They make the Miami Orlando trip and they're on one end or the other,
and that's how it goes. So I think what we see in these positions is I think a lot of these these it just gets so loud that it was probably a we got to do something. Now can tell the NBPA they've stood up and screamed from the rooftops. It's not the players. The players do not want to sit right, if they're healthy, they generally want to play. It's the teams. And they're not saying the teams are wrong in this, but it's the teams that are mostly
making this these decisions. And that's that's what I think also gets lost a little bit here is I think it's hard to we right, the teams are the permanent part in your life as a fan, right, and it's it's it's that's a nice way of saying we root for laundry, but I think that's true to an extent of like, I'm always going to root for this team, and the players may change, so I'm not necessarily going
to attach to to the player. And now I think we're seeing different forms of fandom where some are attaching to a player and then player changes teams, they follow right along with the new team. But I think what's happened here is the overall load management blame has fallen so much on the players, and I don't think that's
necessarily there now. I think what the league's trying to do is say, hey, can we curb this because teams are now down to somewhere between twelve and sixteen back to backs per season, So sixty five games, you want to sit all the back to backs out? One half of them, you're good, sit them out, you don't have to play, and you'll still qualify and still be eligible for postseason awards. I think it's more of and I'm very curious because all the reporting keeps coming with there's
conditions around it, But what are those conditions? Like what does that mean? Is there like, well x amount of games that the team determines the player can't play, like
those don't count. I don't know how that's gonna work, but it's one of those things I'm very curious to see, Like, you know what happens, and we all know there's gonna be a massive uproar the first time somebody has a great season but only played sixty four games, and people are gonna absolutely lose their minds and they'll be you know, well they were the real MVP, or they were the
real first team player. So I don't know, but I think this was a first attempt at hey, let's try to get these guys on the core more often and then we'll see how it comes together. I kind of have my doubts that's going to be how it plays out.
Yeah, and I saw that. I believe it was last night. Kawhi Leonard only played a half because he's playing ago, Yeah, two nights ago, because he was going to play on a back to back, so do you. And also remember Draymond Green, He came in for one possession to be there for Clay and then that obviously changed a lot of things for sports better. Who took who took? Draymond Green?
Unders because they heard whispers of this is that something that you think is how teams or players are going to try to skirt the rules.
That's where I think the conditions may come in because the league doesn't want to turn it into a circus and a farce of like, hey, you know, tonight, fifteen star players checked in or started and then they all subbed out on the first whistle because it was just there. Now, Rue Holiday did it last year The Bucks put him in a game for I think it was like eight
seconds or whatever. He played the tip, he committed a follow and get out of there to earn a bonus because he needed to hit the games played threshold for his bonuses. Now that's cool on the Bucks part, because all it did was cost them a couple million bucks that they wouldn't have to pay out otherwise. So gel good on the Bucks for taking care of their guy.
But I don't think the league and I don't think the Players Association either wants it to turn into a bunch of guys are on the court and then they're subbed out early. But I think what you may see is you may see, huh, why did so and so
only play fifteen minutes tonight? And that may be what we see more of is because I think if it becomes a whole thing where ever, we want to make sure player excess still eligible for is you know awards all right, Well, we can't sell them out right away because if you play under X minutes, maybe that's one of the conditions it doesn't count or something like that,
and you're just you know, subbed without an injury. We'll have to see or you know, if my worry is if you start saying there's injury related conditions, we're gonna get back to the old days of back spasms. There
they're out tonight, right, And that's not great either. So I'm kind of withholding judgment on all this until we see what all the details are because it just seems this one seems like a little there's just got to be other stuff going on with this, because it just seems a little too cut and dry for me to be quite that simple.
Yeah, I'm very sus on it because it does feel like there's a lot of ways to get around it. I think Joel Embiid would have not made Defensive Player of the Year twice. I think Draymond as well, Steph
Curry All NBA. And do you think that this will obviously change How does this help teams in some way too, because they say to themselves, all right, well, we don't have to pay Jalen Brown super max because he's not an All NBA player, so we can re sign him for X, Y and Z instead of being hamstrung to pay him forty million.
Well, that's where it's kind of become a major problem, and you'll have the MVPA screaming is if I wear in game seventy eight of the season and oh man, he's almost there. All right, let's sit him out, like we're just not going to play them, and you know, the team will be all that's a coach's decision and whatever it is. And if the minute the players like, well, I'm not on board with this, you did it, so
I'm not now eligible. That's part of why I have an issue with the any of the contract stuff being tied to awards, because I also don't like the fact that we're both media members. I don't like the fact that the media is the one who are determining what player contracts are, Like, it just feels weird to me.
So I don't I don't love that whole idea of this, And I think if you want to do that, there's ways you could do it that are slightly different where maybe you know you you involve more people, you know. But anytime you start involving players and coaches, then there's agendas and all the voting stuff. And I've been in locker rooms with the All Star voting for the player vote, where two guys who don't even play in r at the end of the bench, like hey, you vote for me,
I'll vote for you. And that's why the player vote has kind of turned into a joke too. So I don't necessarily have a great fix for that. But it's just if we run into a games played thing where a guy gets sat to avoid hitting a threshold that would trigger a contract marker for him, that's gonna be a major issue. And you're gonna hear the screening from the rooftops on that one.
Do you think there's any chance that some of this changes before it gets ratified.
I think there's a chance we could see some stuff tweak. That's why, you know, I think their language in it was like we have a tentative agreement was very clear. I think there's a reason why, Well, if you made a tentative agreement on the wee hours of Saturday morning, like you could have presented it to the Board of Governors, presented it to the players by today. Right we're recording this on Monday, and you could have had this whole thing buttoned up and done and you know, start printing
the copies on Tuesday and we have gotten there. Because I think it's very clear to me tentative agreement means there's still some stuff we're working through. We're all the big stuff, we're there, it's now it's details. We're down
to some of those things. I think some of the stuff might even been floated out there as let's see what the reaction is within the league, within the fans, within the media, Let's see what some of the stuff out there is, and then oh, you know what that could tweak then a late version of whatever it was, and those kind of things. I just think that's, you know, being a little bit smart about how you play it.
And the other thing is, I think we've all learned through the COVID years, and I knew this from my prior career and doing contract negotiations, there's always a thing called the side letter, which is, hey, we all agreed to this, it's not going the way we want. Let's do a side agreement in an amendment and addendum, whatever whatever you want to call it, where we change whatever
it is and we go in the league. And the Players Association has gotten very good through very unfortunate circumstances over the last several years of doing that, you know, when necessary, be able to tweet their existing agreements rather than I feel like if this was a decade ago it would have been Nope, it is what it is and that's it, and we're not changing it because they didn't have a good working relationship. That's one of the biggest things that's changed.
Cool, So let's move out of the CBA. I have some general NBA questions too.
Number One, I need to know what's going on in Toronto because I have not seen someone go from beloved to hot seat to I need to take time to reflect. It's been a decade and maybe I don't want to coach here anymore. What's your take on how this is all got to this place with Nick Nurse and his future around the Raptors.
Yeah, this is not any sourced reporting, but it's a you know, gut gut feel on this is he's gone, Like I don't you don't get to all this point with all that noise, and then you with like five or six games left in your season, you're like, Hey, I know we're getting ready to go into the most important parts of our season and the playing tournament, maybe the playoffs, but let me just address this with you guys now, because I don't want to do it again
like that could have been done you know, before the last game of the year. You could have done it. You could have done it, you know, before your last postseason game, whatever it is. And I think that was a you know, hey, we're trying to do something here over the next few weeks, so let's just run with
what we got. But I think it's pretty clear that that's headed for divorce and it's gonna go a different way the whole I'm gonna take weeks, and that might be turned into I'm gonna take days because I have another job offer ready for me, and here we go. Because like him or not, and I think some of his antics are a little tiresome, but Nick Nurse is a very, very good coach, and I think there's a handful of teams out there that are gonna say, all right, hey,
this is a guy. Whether it's lift us into title contention because we're already a pretty good team, or we're not very good and we want to be good, let's get him in here to kind of move us forward. He's gonna have very good opportunities coming his way.
If because there's been a lot of rumors about him maybe being linked to Houston, If he's already getting players like og And and Obi and Pascal Siakam to tune him out, which is what the reporting is. In my opinion, Keith, and I'd love to hear yours. There's no way he would want to be a part of a rebuild with that sort of roster, right, Yeah, I.
Don't think so. I mean, we were already here and some of the things there were, you know, port Steven Silas is out there. They're telling us openly like these
guys don't listen. I tell him what to do, and then they don't run the plays, they don't do this other stuff, And it's like, yeah, I think that probably my guess would be if we see Nick Nurse headed to Houston, we're gonna see Houston turning their fifty million in the cap space and we're signing some veterans, we're trading some of these kids in packages, and we're turning this thing very quickly into where where we're going forward
with this. I also don't get the sense that Houston's ownership is let's say, the most patient in the world. They gets all right, we did this kind of rebuild thing for a couple of years, now let's be good again. So I think that could be part of if that all comes together, like we're hearing some of the rumors, I think you might see that turn into let's push this thing forward very very quickly.
Another rebuilding team that has questions around it's coaching. Rumors are that Pop doesn't know if he's coming back in San Antonio. He's not going to make a decision until he finds out whether they're getting Victor Wapi Yama.
Is that is that kind of the long and the short of it.
I kind of feel like it might be right. I think he's kind of looking at it and saying, hey, you're going to deliver me a you know, not that they're the same kind of player, but give me another Tim Duncan. I'm here. I'll be here next year. If it's you know, we slipped in the lottery and we're getting you know, the third pick or whatever. That guy's probably pretty good.
But I'm kind of good. I've done this. I think, well we I kind of I don't think Pop's gonna be the kind of guy who necessarily I know some people have said like he's gonna retire and then if you see him again, it's gonna because you're part of his inner circle and you're at one of his wine dinners. I don't know if that's gonna be how it goes. I remember, different sport, but kind of similar type thing.
I remember hearing Bobby Bowden Joe Paturno talked for years about, Hey, if I'm not a football coach, what am I right? And at this point in my life, this is what kind of keeps me going, gets me up every day, is to do this. So I kind of wonder if Pop's like, hey, if I'm not in basketball, and I think it's been Forgotton because he's been coaching for so long, came out of the front office, and he came out of the front office because it was hey, we built a mess of a team. I should be the one
who has to deal with this. And then they, you know, lottery odds. As the Celtics guy, I remember quite well we were supposed to get Tim Duncan and Keith van Horn with Rick Patino and ended up with Chauncey Phillips and Ron Mercer instead. I think Pop might be like, hey, I can go back and do some work in the front office again, and I'll still be around and kind
of doing my thing. And I think you on a handful of his kind of people who presume maybe to be his successors, they've kind of moved on and gone on because he just keeps doing it. But it wouldn't surprise me if they get one min Yama, if he's right back on the bench again kind of Hey, I'm going to do my thing and waiting it out until the absolute right personally feels like I'm ready to hand this off to is available.
In the beginning of the season, I told somebody who works for the front office of the Spurs.
I said, you know, it's it's such a.
Young, fresh team. The way that they're running the offense feels so different. It's almost like you forget sometimes that it's Pop running the show.
And their response to me was, we never forget.
We know every day who's running the show. Is the question, I guess is like, what does that really you mean?
Yeah? I think sometimes what that is is, hey, like we like he's now instead of the I'm in there every single day grinding with this, he kind of becomes like, Hey, I oversee this operation, right, I've got somebody who's kind of running the defense, somebody who's kind of running this and that's in general how NBA teams kind of work.
I think one of the misnomers is that, you know, I think because people know NFL coaches love to talk about I sleep in my office and I get two hours of sleep at night, and I'm breaking down film for you know, one hundred hours a week, and it's like, well, why, like, what more did you learn than that one hundred hours that couldn't have learned in forty But I think it's with the NBA coaches then people think like they're heavily involved,
and I think sometimes it's they've they've their responsibilities to get farmed out to a lot of people, and they kind of do their thing, and then what happens with with the coach is like, all right, now I collect all that information, form that into what we want to do.
And I think for Pop one of the cool things was, I think it was a year ago, we had a chance to talk to him and he was like, you know, I'm kind of re energized by this, like I've got a bunch of kids in here now and where then he said, you know what's cool is we tell them to do something, they go out, they screwed up ten times and then they finally get it right. It's like, oh man, they got it now, Now we can take that, we can build onto that with piece number two, and
you just kind of keep adding to it. And I think he's been a little bit re energized by some of that stuff. But my guess is it's probably a little bit more of a shared responsibility within the organization than it is so much. Hey, Pop's really fully running everything the way it probably was during most of the Duncan Genobili Parker years.
Yeah, And the sense that I got was maybe that they're some of the people there are ready for a regime change to take place too.
Yeah, I kind of wonder if the talent bleed out of the organization with assistant coaches was, Man, I can't wait here and be the number two for a million years, Like I gotta go. Like like if we if we were to talk about college basketball, it was like I remember, for like twenty years, it was black guy's gonna take over for coach k Yea, and then it was well he's still here and Neil and then it was you know, Tommy Amaker and Chris Collins and all these guys were
in Steve Wojehouse. They were all the next guy, and they were all they all had to go and leave and go other places, and it was like, you know, I kind of wonder if you know the the you know, Will Hardy's and Becky Hammond and Quinn Snyder's and he may Dooka and all the ones who were under uh pop all had to go other places. And then eventually it was like, all right, now I got my shot at the top job, and I'm kind of running my show.
You know, where do we go with this? I think that's probably a little bit of what's going on there. And maybe it was. Man, if you'd gone a year or ago or two years ago, we could have had this coach slid them right into the top spot move forward, and it's just not how it has gone.
Yeah, I do want to get your thoughts on the play in tournament as a whole.
Now it's a permanent fixture.
Do you think it worked out how you originally thought it would or or is it better or worse? Better?
Way better? I was not I don't want to say it wasn't a fan when they did it for the bubble season. I fully got it because you had to do something you couldn't come and play a million games in the bubble. That was just not gonna be how it went down. So I was like, all right, I kind of like what they did with the bubble year,
and then they kind of tweaked and adjusted. I still part of me kind of wishes and this year is different because these teams are all right there that if hey, if you're the tenth seed but you're twelve games behind the nine seed, thanks for playing, but your season's over. We don't need you involved in anything, right, you stink
and get out. But I think it's this year, right, these teams are all right pretty close to each other within a couple of games, and I think what it's done is it's given the NBA as close as wherever you get to our version of March Madness, right where it's single game elimination kind of there's I know, who was the first one, you get that second shot at it. But it's pretty cool to watch those games knowing, hey, this is all on the line. Right, It's like we get up you know, a week, you know, a week
of game sevens almost you know in the thing. And and that to me is you know a lot of fun. I think that's a really cool process as we you know, have been able to get that and then it's like, all right, we had that fun and now we go
into the playoffs. And one of the biggest things I love about the NBA playoffs is the best team usually wins because you're gonna you're tested, right, You've got to win four times in seven games, and you got to do that four times in a row, and that is Hey, it wasn't just one bad shooting night knocked us out, but we still get that taste of the NCAA tournament. One bad shooting night knocked us out through the playing tournament.
So I think it's been a massive success. Not only that, the combination of the playing tournament plus the flattened lottery odds, which means you don't need to be horrendously bad from you know, the season opener to make sure you can get victa Winbin Yami. You just need to be bad to kind of naturally bad. Those two things. I mean, we it's only this week, with less than a week to go in the season, that we're starting to get more than the worst four teams in the league eliminated
from playoff contention. That's massive win to me is teams had something to play for, you know, almost all the way to the end of the year, even in the last week, and that's where we're starting to eliminate our teams. That's a major, major success and everybody should feel pretty good about that awesome stuff.
Thank you so much for breaking it all down. That is all the time that we have for this episode of The Heat Check. Massive thanks to my guy Keith Smith. Make sure you give him a follow on Twitter at Keith Smith MBA. Make sure you read his work at spotrack dot com, s p O t r ac dot com. Check back Thursday for an all new episode. Do not forget to peepe the feed for past episodes, interviews and bonus episodes that drop onexpectedly throughout the week. Sometimes Keith
blesses us on BETMG on tonight as well. We post that here and please follow us the heat Check as we're almost to the playoffs, download subscribe, tell your friends, every single damn one of them, and follow us on socialie at this heat Check and at tris to crik on TikTok Instagram, Twitter. Because the Heat Check never sleeps, especially we've got a new CBA to get ratified