|FULL POD| Frank Michael Smith Joins The Heat Check!

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Drank Michael Smith aka Rhino, one of the biggest fucking names in the basketball content space. One point seven milli followers on TikTok, one point three milli followers on YouTube, gets more views than first take on YouTube, gets more views than your favorite fucking morning show.

Why because he is a straight beast.

Similarly massive followings on other social media platforms as well. He has been grinding making straight to camera video since twenty ten. That is a long fucking time. This man's been in the internet game since longer than I think I even knew the Internet social media exists. He is basically my role model when it comes to content.

Doesn't know this.

I'm about to drop some info on him. One of the very first videos that I saw on TikTok that was highly successful in the sports space that I sent to my producer and said, this man is crushing, we need to diagnose what he does.

Was this man, Frank Michael Smith.

I have been following you since the real reason Russell Westbrook playd so hard in the spring of twenty twenty.

Frank Michael Smith.

Wow, that you just set the record for the intro. Let's go. I'm fired up right now. Sometimes you need to hear it, Trista.

I know, like you can do the intro later, but like, who knows what the intro is really going to be?

Right, Like, who knows?

You know?

That was beautiful. Thank you. I'm ready to dive into it. Yeah, you put the twenty ten number out there. That makes me feel old at this point. But I was grind. I was one of the first people on YouTube. I was in two thousand and eight in middle school making highlight videos and like people didn't know YouTube yet.

That's what's so crazy is the space at that point was not as saturated as it is now. And what's fascinating to me about your journey is that a lot of YouTubers that are huge they got huge because of when they started, but it was but you didn't, Like you got huge through persistence. So what do you think

And like how different do you think YouTube is now from when you started?

Oh my god, it's so much different. So back then, I remember I used to do these highlight videos, so it would be like Lebron James Ultimate Highlight Mix, and if you dig hard enough, you still might find one. They're not under my name, but you might find one. I was rarely ever in the actual videos. They were just like you know, highlight compilations, and they I had a cool soundtrack on there, which, by the way, is like the easiest way to start hating a song is

Well in discovery too.

I think the thing that's always been interesting to me as someone who came like you from you know, anonymity, right, like wasn't I wasn't a college athlete. I didn't get plopped into the system where you get pushed. So discovery has always been something fascinating to me. How do you think if you were to start a YouTube pay today, you could take it to zero to viral differently than what you do now, Like if you were to do it in a different way, I'm.

Not sure I would do it in a different way. I could go from zero again. But it's it all comes down a value at the end of the day. And you'll hear people talk about this and it's like a pretty broad stroke to paint here. But the end of the day, like are you giving someone something interesting? Like that's what you do on this podcast. People like your podcast because you deliver value, Like you're funny, you're informational,

Yeah, it's crazy. It's like almost become the thing that I read.

I read an article of you being interviewed, and the thing that I thought was like so fascinating and something that I struggle with a lot is like having a formula. And that sounds like for a creator, there's nothing scarier than the word formula, right, Like you feel your trap now into a box.

But for what has worked for you? Have you have stuck to this recipe? Recipe is probably the better way of putting.

It, because that sounds I think better and more like open and then like this is working, I'm sticking to this.

You know? I didn't put that much thought into it. Like I've tried so many different things and most of them failed. So it wasn't like I was like, hey, like first try here, got it. But finally when I found something that did work, I knew right away. So I met my first video on TikTok. We'll get to the TikTok portion of my career. It was twenty twenty. I had worked in sports media for a couple of years out in LA started making videos on my own and I did. I did an origin story about Yiannis.

Did you see that article that just came out about Sham's I was going to ask I read the whole Yeah, I.

Thought that was so just for people who haven't read it. It chronicles Schams's career. He ends up getting mentored by Woes Wojenham are now in this like Cold War as newsbreakers. But the thing that I thought was fascinating to me is that like Shams has absolutely zero work life balance. He probably will never date in any meaningful way. He's

Well, Shams is born that way. That stuck out. And by the way, one of my friends I went to college with him, he went to New Trier. He graduated with Shams. I saw him this week and at a wedding and he was like, you see the article my boy Shams. And I was like, oh, yeah you guys, Like were you the same year? He was like yeah, I had classes with them. I was like, was he the same way in high school? He's like the exact same way. Just loved basketball, obsessed with basketball. You know.

How long did it take for you to realize that you could monetize this?

See, I had a bit of an advantage. I worked in sports for a couple of years with clutch points right exactly. So I'll tell you a funny story. I wasn't making very much money, and so I went to my boss and I was like, hey, can I start doing some sales on the side. I got to sign some of these deals so I can get a commission check. Like LA's expensive, Trista, it's I know, I know. So I was like, I got to make some extra money, like I'm stressing, Like I didn't even have a car

And I got I stop you right there really fast? Did you uber everywhere or what did you do?

Oh? Uberpool? That was my thing? All right, Peter Uberpool, we need it back.

So you say, okay, I want to do sales.

Yeah. So I find this deal and it's with the company sports Betting Dime and it was a nice deal. It was like a twenty five thousand dollars a month deal and I was scheduled to make like a couple thousand on it every month, which was like, Oh my god, this is like massive life changing money for me. And the day we signed it, we had all the ink

So what do you think is the most important part of a creator going from engaging content views to Ashley delivering value.

For a brand.

I mean, people have to care about you, they have to care about you, and that's like, that's one of the problems Clutch Points had was like no one really cares about the brand that much. They delivered a lot of news like hey, so and so sprains his ankle and here's the article about it, and we're gonna link you back to the website. They they couldn't have like an in person activation. They couldn't be like, hey, everybody, meet up. We're having a three v three tournament at

Yeah, and it's hard to get brands to want to jump on even if your views are big, right, Like, because how are you.

Going to do that? Are you going to put a water mark in?

Because that's not gonna get any real organic value to a brand, is it? Is it something that's like you know this Canada drive that I'm just having, Like what are like, how how do you find the Because I saw that there was a big stock X partnership that you just did where you did a scavenger hunt inside of an arena.

So that actually not stock I wanted to be stock X.

Oh so what was it was just you bought the Travis Scott.

Oh yeah, let me explain this. This is this is really cool. So it's totally sponsored right now stock X. If anyone's listening, pay those attention to the segment. My suggestion is always to be creative with the brand deals. The brand's paying you money, you know, I think you owe it to them to at least think outside the box a little bit. It shouldn't be as simple as like, here's a candidate dry, you know, use your brain a little bit. So this isn't sponsored yet. In the future,

That's six.

You came out your pocket for the Travis Scotts Bobbie the secondary market to do the activation for a potential deal that hasn't even happened yet.

Well yes, but we also get like we're building something like we also do giveaway attached to it. So if you were to like I can't make it to Pittsburgh, you go to my bill, you enter your email in and you have a chance to win another pair. So now we get everyone's email, we can create like a koolus letter. So we're building assets attached to this. It's called the hunt.

I read that it takes you eight hours somewhere between eight and twelve hours to go from ideation to publish for one video.

Is that true?

Well?

Yeah, depending on the size of the video. Yeah, I write pretty fast. Now I've done over a thousand of these. So actually getting the idea, I have like a solid filter for what's a good idea and what's not. That's probably the most important thing to have. Then you know, I'm writing the script or a guy on my team writes the first edition of the script, I make an edit, I film it that The filming process is actually really quick.

Wow, So okay, so you guys all get together for the ideation first, or just just like walk me through the granular steps of how that happens.

From all over the place. Like I saw, for example, today, I saw post from ESPN NFL. It was a quote from DeMarcus Ware and it was talking about Micah Parsons. He has all the tools to be Lawrence Taylor. I was just having a conversation with my dad last night about how the NFL is hell bent on making Michaeh Parsons and the Lawrence Taylor. They are going so far with this thing. So when I see that post today on my Instagram feed, I'm like, Okay, that's just amo.

How long did it take to write the script?

Thirty minutes, not roughly when.

You edit the script or someone writes the first edition. And I know this is like very granular, but I think it's super important for people who.

Want to be creators. What are you looking for to

Because I read in this interview, but I also just based on what I know, you've got some of the best hooks, meaning the thing that gets viewers listening and interested and not to swipe left or rights or out of there. Like, So what's the most important thing for you when you're building that.

Yeah, it's a fine line. You gotta walk. You can't be so sensational and be like this is the greatest you know, all this stuff, because then you're gonna lose people's trust. It's probably not the greatest, the most crazy thing ever you heard. And I see people who do that, and you know, I don't think it's sustainable. So you got to give people something without giving them the whole thing. You have to make it exciting without making it sensational.

Yeah, you have to say, hey, like check this little that trailer.

The trailers wouldn't exist if we didn't have to draw people in.

So how many people do you have working with you

And how did it go from you by yourself in La to now you having a little squad.

Well, I'll start in La. I tell people this all the time, like you don't I got the nice mic right here, so do you? You know you don't need this stuff. But the biggest mistake some of these newer creators make is they want to buy everything right away. I had an iPhone seven. I used like a suction cup and put it on the wall and use the front camera. It was nice and sunny in La, so I was near a window, didn't need any lighting. But

You use like whatever final cut or you edited in post correct. You wouldn't just do straight to camera post on TikTok. You would do straight to camera upload the math book pro and then put what we call b roll in, which is the video footage that you have overlaying your audio.

Right. Yeah, So I had all these skills. Like I said at the top, I've been making these videos since two thousand and eight. I used to use Windows movie Maker. You know, that was the worst thing ever iMovie some of these programs. Then I went to Final Cut. Now I'm at Adobe Premiere, so I know how to use all this stuff. I had those skills. The skill I really didn't have at the beginning was being on camera talking.

Interactive Media major in College of Miami of Ohio. I

Like what is that program? What did you learn? How much of that do you use every day? Now?

I'm one of the few people who really uses their major, at least like from my friends in college. But yeah, it did. It did feel right. I didn't know Miami had this major when I went there. I was undecided and I was going to try and get in the business school. You got like a Dean calc. That wasn't happening. I wanted to be an entrepreneurship major. It wouldn't let me be an entrepreneurship major. Like makes no sense to me at all, but you know, it's all for the best.

So for those who don't know, my man Frank Smith was running the socials for Clutch Points and killing it there.

And what I thought was interesting was the interview that I that.

I read was they were totally fine with you doing your own thing while you were working there, until you surpassed them. What was that like conversation like and what did that sort of teach you?

That was wild? That made no sense to me at all. Like I wanted to win so bad. I'm a competitive person. I really wanted to win. When I was there, I was like, we got to do new stuff, We got to be more creative, we got to like, we got to evolve as a brand here. We need to do original content. Like I said, a lot of it's aggregated, and that they made a business model off of that. I'm not saying that anything like wrong with it, But I wanted to level up and I saw this original

They're loss, you're done with clutch Points, but you're still in LA. You go off, you do it all by yourself. Now walk me through how you get from that to living in Pittsburgh with the team media mogul them all.

Right, So, first of all, I love Pittsburgh. You're not going to hear a lot of like creators in Pittsburgh. Although like my guy Colin is here, it's not exactly a creator hotbed. It's the opposite move you'd make if you're starting a media company a production company. You're like, oh, let me move from LA to Pittsburgh. At like the peak of this business, you know, I was doing like eighty million views a month. Things are going well. So

At what point did you say, Okay, I've got the resources where I want to either have people come on to my team or you obviously started a production company as well.

So that happened. Actually, while I was still in LA I got my first video editor. He is a beast. I've worked with him for like six or seven years actually, so he was at clutch points and he was like I taught him how to do most of his edits in the beginning, and this guy like he's such a grinder.

Yeah, and it's interesting too because you as somebody who's like that, who's almost maniacal about every day. I guess as you can tell if I'm me and my friend who's worked on the podcast, with me since the beginning, are like passing back and forth, like what do you think makes.

This video really good? Like? Why did this video go viral?

There's a there's an element of like always wanting to improve, and when people don't have that, it's it's just a very jarring, jarring feeling.

I can't imagine living that way. I think about this a lot, actually, and I've come to terms with it. It used to frustrate me a lot, but I've come to terms with like, some people just they're not interested in that, and that's not going to change for them, and it's something you have to accept.

Do you think that there are stories that are good

And if so, what was it?

Oh, did not respond?

Just did not respond?

You know what, I'll have to look through. Can I give you the opposite?

Yep?

Okay, So I did a story on Barry Bremen and he for anyone who hasn't seen the video, there's actually an E sixty on him that's really good too. He was a professional fraud. He would go to games and get on the court by like dressing like the players, and he was famous for this, Like everyone kind of loved him if you did it. Nowadays, today's equivalent is like the guy who used to be Klay Thompson, remember him, Yes, yes, yes, So no one likes that guy, Like he's banned, he

Yeah, what about a video you thought would not do well? And then it just exploded.

All right, I'll give this one as an example. So I hadn't tried this format yet. I did a video about the fifty forty ninety Club, and I was like, man, Tony Snell's like in the fifty forty ninety Club. I found this information and I was like, he hasn't missed a freae throw in like two years, you know, and it was it wasn't one of those players. It's like, oh, you know, like he plays four minutes a game, like he's not qualifying. Like Tony Snell was starting a lot

Snell except for Quasia on the Club Trillion too, or like he was in.

Oh yeah, the Zero Game.

Yet the Zero Game stories.

You mentioned that you at one point didn't want to do stories about yourself or you didn't want to make yourself like a focal point of the video, But those are crushing those.

Like you said, create value for an audience.

At what point in the process for you, did you realize that you were just as important as whatever it is that you were talking about.

Well, I definitely realized that when everyone copied my style, when everyone started making videos that were identical to mine, I was like, Okay, now my face is actually like integral here, because it's the differentiator between people trying to do my style and me doing my style. They don't have me so definitely at that point, and you'll see it so often with the thumbnails. The thumbnails is crazy.

It is pretty sick, let's be honest.

It's nice. I love it, but like my god, there's so many other ways to be creative here. I'm surprised that, like there's people doing it now that don't even know they're doing mine. They're doing someone else that did mine, And you know, that was definitely a turning point. But I will make videos about myself to answer your question. It's just got to be interesting enough, Like people have to realize, like I don't live some like crazy lifestyle like a lot of creators don't. Anyone who read the

So what's next? What do you want to?

Like?

What's the big dream for you?

A couple things on the radar right now. The Hunt, which I talked about earlier, which is a great way to put myself into the content. I love actually meeting the people who watch my videos and it's always an amazing interaction. And to add some level of creativity there is even better. So I'm really excited to work on that. We have built fantasy games before five card draw is a big one. I've done it for years, really popular. We have some big plans with that. I'm involved in

Fascinating.

Let's move on to some some hoop stuff because I know that. So Pittsburgh, So what's the NBA team? Which what was the NBA team for you growing up?

You know, it's so unfortunate we don't have an NBA team. Pittsburgh loves basketball. No one talks about this and people laugh when we get mentioned for an expansion team, But Pittsburgh loves its sports so much. We would do so well with an NBA team. We have the arena. It's relatively new PPG where the Penns play. They host March Madness there. There's plenty big enough, but I've never had a team there. And as a kid, I always was

Loo.

I saw you know Ming in person. We saw young t Mac and we went to a couple games whereas the Bulls and you know, young Lebron. People kind of forget this now, but was like the most electric player ever to watch, like just crazy athletic, worth the price of admission every single time. So I like the Calves back then, but I never really built like such a connection with them. I can't, I can't explain it, but like I'm wearing like a PSG shirt right now, hoodie.

Hard Dubs, yeah hard.

They're my favorite team to watch, but I can't really have that connection with them. I need the team to be in Pittsburgh.

Yeah, there's something about the local vibe.

I'm an Oregon U fan, went to Oregon Blazer span through and through.

There's just but.

I'm also a Cowboys fan because you know, there's no NFL team there, and it's just a different feeling.

You know, there's just a when they lose, you're upset, but.

Not really as much as when it's like, oh okay, it's Washington, Oregon. Last few seconds that that heart is in your chest. So I get that with the local flavor. So in terms of like the news, we talked about this when I come on your podcast.

What is the most Like?

You caught me off guard? So I decided not to catch you off guard. Most chi under the radar signing pick up in the NBA.

I think this season, okay, I think a lot of people forgot about the Christops move. That was a big deal when it happened, and now that the Celtics have made another move, it's like totally forgotten. I haven't heard any articles or any talk about it, but I think it's important here, and you know, we're talking about a team that's a title favorite. So I'm kind of surprised.

Yeah, me too. I think a lot of that's because he's just not been healthy, right, and so we're wondering is he a five? Is he a four? How's the fit? And then the Drew thing came in.

Yeah, I mean he's always an injury risk and you know whatever, but that's that's gonna make the team look so much different. I'm not particularly huge Chris tops fan. I think his game has always been kind of weird ever since he got the first injury in New York. Unfortunately, he definitely didn't work in Dallas. That was ugly watching him alongside with Luca. So I'm not saying this is going to be a good move, but it's definitely one worth keeping tabs on that's not getting any balls.

Favorite off the court plot line or plot lines this season.

Okay, it's gotta be James Harden right, Like we talked about this when you came on. But he had another quote the other day where he was like, all right, so update he's at camp, and then they ask him again. He's like, situation, relationship is beyond repair. He compares it to a marriage being done. I'm like, okay, so what so what like you're gonna like be on the team still or how are we doing this here? Because you're still at war with the team.

It's like when you live with your boyfriend or girlfriend and you guys are broken up, but you're still like you still have a one bedroom and you're just sleeping in this like twin band together. You like look over, You're like, yeah, I don't want to be here, but I have nowhere else that that I can go.

Yeah, I mean pretty much. It's like, so if Daryl Morey was the woman here, she's like bringing back other dudes to the apartment. He's like, O, he has to just like sit through it. It's like I need to find a different place to live.

He needs to go, He's got to go soon. I saw this that Zach Low. I like Zach Low a lot, but this is maybe the most disrespectful League past lists I've ever seen. Where You've got like Toronto's got to be the hardest watch this year. So who are your top league past teams and who are your like absolutely switching away from the TV when this team is on.

Let's start with the team I want to watch. I still think the Kings were a League past team.

Absolutely.

They were so fun to watch last year. And I know how many games are they on national TV? List always comes out, but I didn't review it. I'm guessing they don't have very many. They're still in Sacramento, so it's going to be a lot of league pass for me for the Kings. And it's the West Coast, so those games are they're usually like a sneaky late night watch. That was always the Blazers for me. They're in the Blazers spot now. So I like the Kings. I mean

Then worst team to watch. You can't use the Raptors, but they're really bad.

They're really bad. I want to go with Charlotte. There was just news again the other day about Miles Bridges. Can anything go right in Charlotte? Like they made I saw someone make a list of like the police reports on their team. It is so bad. And then you add in LaMelo, who doesn't have a police report. I don't want to, you know, misreport anything here, but it doesn't seem super interested in being like an NBA player.

Yeah, what team do you think has the biggest drop off this year?

The biggest drop off? Unfortunately? I think it might be the Warriors. They're still and I really like the Warriors. I love watching them play basketball. But I think a lot of things can go wrong in a lot of different directions for them.

Yeah, we talked about this on your pod that Chris Paul fit will have to see.

It wouldn't totally surprise me if they end up being like a nine or a ten seed in missing the playoffs, like end up being a playing team. They're just really old at this point. I don't think there's any way around that. They're probably going to be some injuries there. They're going to be short on depth. Don't love it, but you know, Steph is He's gonna find a way. If Steph remains healthy the whole year, he's still gonna

You'd still think Nuggets win the whole thing.

Or who's your title favorite as of now October seventeenth.

I think it's Boston. It's hard to pick against Nuggets in the West, though, really it's really hard. Remember when those Jokic retirement rumors came out. I think that's I think that's the only thing that can stop them is if he just like becomes disinterested in playing basketball, which I think it's a I think it's a lie.

Yeah, it could be like the greatest bit ever in history. But you have been thank you so much for making the time. We're gonna have to do it again. I am coming out to Pittsburgh. I'm gonna see a game with you again. Like you guys, If you guys don't follow Frank Michael Smith on every platform and you're not getting storytelling from him on a daily basis, you must

We'll have to do it again soon.

Trista, It's been a pleasure. I'm excited for Pittsburgh and everyone out there. Definitely follow the Twitter. I'm trying to grow on there, so good stuff coming on there.

Absolutely, thanks so much,