You're tuned into Heat Check with Trista Quick.
On this episode of heat Check, we've got a special interview with friend of show David four from The Athletic.
He is here to explain some very important details.
Number one, why he doesn't care if he's right or wrong on Twitter, why he prefers the Western Conference over the Eastern Conference, what's the best region around the world to help fuel the future of the NBA, and everything in between. This is an awesome, wide ranging interview, so let's get right into it. Nick, do me a favor and drop that generic ass beat. Where do you want to start in the NBA landscape?
I don't know. There's so much there really is a lot. It's funny. I was talking to my neighbor last night and he was like, Oh, I know you've been busy because there's so much stuff happening in the NBA. I mean, like, the Bucks are the best team in the league right now, which they're also getting as healthy as they've been all seasons, so maybe they've been the best team all along. I don't know.
That's what I wondered too.
And people asked me when Middleton was down and when Drew had been injured and Giannis's hyper extension of his knee came back, and I said to people multiple times, I said, hey, everybody's crowning Boston, but just remember this thing went seven without Chris Middleton.
With Chris Middleton, it did.
Look at one point in time like they were the best team in the league, and now they're starting to find their mojo. I find the Bucks to be not nearly as interesting though as the drama to me, to like, like, for example, the Mavericks.
Okay, the Mavericks to me are a fascinating team.
You like the dysfunction, Yeah, cause I feel.
Like things that function well really aren't that interesting.
Okay. I mean there's suit sides to it. But you know, my basketball brand loves when things go well. I love to tell you why it's working rather than why it's not working, because too often in the NBA, and this is you know, this comes down to their personal preference thing. Like I prefer to care about what happens on the court and not necessarily what's happening between a guy's ears off the court that's affecting him on the court. I
don't want to think about that stuff. So like when teams are playing well, I don't have to think about Oh, well, you know it was probably uplate watching conspiracy theory videos on YouTube, you know, like you do the Bucks, nah Man, they watch pro wrestling and they go out and kick ass playing basketball. So I tend to lean there. But the Mavericks are a team that I unfortunately watch too much of and have watched too much of. And yeah,
their dysfunction is very It starts at the top. You know, you've got a coach that's like, hey, I'm just I'm just a bystander. You don't don't mind me. I'm just watching the games like you guys are I just got a great seat.
Yeah, why do you think basketball wise?
Because I I don't really care.
Like you said, you don't care about the psychology of it.
You're a c They're missing good players. That's the problem, right, Like they don't have good enough players. Getting Maxi back is going to be good if as long as he can stay healthy, that'll help their defense. But you know, Christian Wood is a big problem, Like he kind of is not very good and gets you know, I think Jason Kidd has been proven right about Christian Wood. You know, I think last night played eighteen minutes was minus sixteen.
Just ineffective, completely ineffective. So empty stats don't help you out very much. And then the Kyrie the Kyrie Luca thing, I'm less worried about because this is more normal two guards trying to figure each other out. That's not dysfunctional. The dysfunction is you don't have a coach that's putting them into like cohesive sets or running plays to get
them to work together, like in two man game. And then they're getting to end of games and you know they're one and four now since the trade, and they're getting to end up games and it's like, no, go ahead, your turn, which is great, like you love the selflessness, but Luka Doncis had thirty nine points and was cooking in the third quarter of that game. He had thirty six in the first three quarters, only three in the fourth,
and it's like, wait a second. I understand that Kyrie has been dubbed the King of the fourth quarter because he's leading the league and scoring in the fourth, but that's Luka Doncic and he's on a heater, as he tends to be. So I'd rather Luca take the last shot. So I need Luca to be a little bit more selfish, selfish out there Layden games, and I think, like that's again, it's a coaching issue. They've got a coaching problem.
Do you think Jason Kidd is even close to on the hot seat one and number two?
Why is he just being the watcher.
Shit? I mean, that's tricky, right because he's buddies with the owner, So I don't know who knows. I think that they're at the point though, where they need to start thinking about the Luca part of this a little bit harder than anything else. They put all their chips in the table between the Christian Wood and Kyrie trade, right, Like they got these guys, they don't really have a lot of assets. You give up He's not their best defender. Dorrian Finney Smith has not been the best defender on
that team this year. That's been Josh Green. But Dorrian Finney Smith was probably their most important defender because of his ability to slide between positions so seamlessly, and he just knows the defense and he's really turned himself into a knockdown shooter. But you gave up that guy, and what you have left is not as good around Luca, Like it's not maximizing what Luca does. Now, if Kyrie hits like that's great, that's higher than just maximizing Luca.
You've got two individual stars that can create off the dribble, and they can both shoot in the mid range and both shoot threes three level scores, and that's great come playoff time. But the key to their defensive run last year was Dorian Finney Smith. The key to getting to the conference finals was that defense, and Dorian Finney Smith
was sort of the lynchpin of the whole thing. And so you've just punted on that identity, you know, two thirds of the way through the season, and you're expecting your coach that has not proven to be like an ex's and O's wonk to figure this out on the fly. And then now you've got two years left to Luka Doncic and probably gonna lose Kyrie this summer, and Christian Wood you didn't make a decision on, so you're gonna have to make a decision on him in the summer.
And uh, it just looks like the beginning of the end to me. Like I texted my my buddies that I do the Mavericks pod with and I was just like, this is it, mark this date, this is when when the downfall started. I think we're gonna watch this guy just basically start putting his foot out the door because it's not working. So either they got to get a new coach, someone that obviously Luca respects, which I've not
heard that he doesn't respect Jason Kidd. But they need somebody that knows how to coach because Jason Kidd is really not coaching this team very well.
Yeah, and you're right, like it feels if you're not all in on Christian Wood, which which they're not and they shouldn't be, and they don't. They don't like him, like personally, they don't like his agent. Luca seems to be the only one that loves christian Wood. But Christian Wanan's not impacting winning, So you gave up pieces for him, You give up pieces for Kyrie to rent him for
twenty five games. And now once they both are gone this offseason, what do you really have without Dorian Finnie Smith. You have a bunch of empty cupboards. You've got Reggie Bullock, You've got Josh Green, and that's in Maxi Klaybla. It's
it and a very overpaid Tim Hardaway Junior. I'm sure you are hoping to move at the deadline, and we're able to so if you're Luca, and I think every smart, every smart individual person in their career can look around at their surroundings and say is this best for me long term? Even if I know I'm here for another two years, I'm looking at some of these other organizations and saying, I think this is a better place, a better culture, a better fit to maximize my legacy.
I am really really tight with Nikola Jokic. Yep, you know, I started thinking Jamal Murray, Michael Porter Junior and some picks like does that get the conversation started. I'm not look and I'm not saying that this guy's asking out. I don't know if that he'll he would even do that. Maybe he just finishes the contract, goes a free agency. But just they're not doing a good job of putting a good team around him. They I think that they were on the right path. Injury luck has really hurt them.
I mean, Maxi being out for as long as he was obviously did him no favors, but they didn't They would have been better off standing pat over the summer than doing what they did. And you know, the Porzingis thing not working out. I'm not blaming anybody for that because Porzingis is a pretty good player. Just didn't work with him and Luca And sometimes you don't. You can think of fit as natural until you actually get it on the court and you realize, well, Porzingis is not that guy.
Ooh, let me ask you about this then, because I wasn't planning on asking you, but it just popped in my head when you said sometimes you think it's gonna fit and it doesn't fit.
Does it ever fit with Rudy Gobert, Carl Anthony Towns and Aunt Edwards.
Hell no, they gotta trade Karl Anthony Towns. They should have traded Karl Anthony Towns when they've made the go Beart trade. They could have gotten a haul over the summer. I don't know. Is there a single player whose value has dropped more that without getting old? Yeah, suffering an injury, a big injury in the last three years. Remember all the lists that used to come out where Karl Anthony Towns is the best young big in the league, best
young prospect in the league. Now I never bought any of that at all because to me, like his position, you have to be able to defend to have value. I mean, he's John collins ish, but John Collins actually protects the rim. Like there's some strong argument that you'd rather have John Collins on your team than Karl Anthony Towns, which is sad to say compared to where we were three years ago. And of course Karl Anthony Town's great shooter can shoot off the dribble, which for a big
is super valuable. But man, he does not fit. He can't be the second best player there because he's not the second best player there.
Let me ask you this, then, does this actually mean that we've been wrong about Tim Connolly this whole time? Because if he doesn't see that on the front end, what was that really?
I don't know if we're if it might be too early to say we're wrong about him. I mean, he did a really good job in Denver. That's that's the track record that he's got, right, So we can't judge people. People are really quick to jump on that go Bear trade and they're like, oh, you overspent. By the way, Gobart looked great against the Clippers, right, Like now they don't. They like to play small too often. But something has
clicked with him and it could be health. I mean, he really looked strong in that game, so that might be a big, a big swing for them, and he's been better since Karl Anthony Town's out anyway, But trying to judge the go Beart trade today is impossible.
It's impossible. It's impossible.
It's impossible. It's impossible. Look, it's possible, you can do it, but we don't know, Like, no one should have expected this team to be a championship contender this year, Go Bear trade or not, but Top four is still in
reach for them. That was my I thought that they would rack up a lot of regular season wins because I actually thought that Karl Anthony Towns would come back this season being really good shape, would be able to you know, it's a lesser offensive role, maybe he would play a little bit more defense, and it obviously he's been hurt for a lot of the season. Well it's been out for a lot of the seasons, so, you know, mysteriously, So I just think that we don't really know what
it's going to look like. It sucks that they lost Jared Vanderbilt in the Go Beart trade because that's a guy that they I mean, look, they they gave up a lot, okay, but go Beart in and of himself is a top five defense right under normal circumstances. And I think that that we're seeing that regression back to the mean, Like we're seeing a team that you know, has a dominant defensive center. And then what Anthony Edwards is doing defensively, this is some you know, this is
like top five, top seven player sort of wow. Well, I mean he's like he's on the MVP track to me, and the defense is a big part of that. And we know what he does offensively, but the way he has stepped up defensively this season, that's like next level. That's the leap that he's taken.
Who does he remind you of?
I mean Michael Jordan really, I mean straight up, yeah, of course.
Really it to me.
It feels crazy when I say that out loud, but like that's the only He's obviously not him, but that's the only in terms of the way that he plays.
Right, well, he's got like a physical dominance and it's different than than obviously different players, different style of play, and he and the three ball for him. I mean, the guy is probably gonna wind up breaking Steph Curry's record wherever you know, or the previous record. He'll pass Ray Allen at some point. Right, he may not pass Steph because Steph could do this for another decade, but the three ball being so powerful for him opens up
a lot. He gets to the basket and he can just decide to get to the basket because he's got the body for it. You know, it's funny that the Karl Anthony Towlens brings up you know, he's eating hot fries or whatever it was that he that what was Popeyes? Popeyes?
Which whatever, such a racially charged fast food chain.
To choose to Popeyes is delicious, It's amazing.
It's not Church's Chicken, but it's pretty good. So also, calories are calories, and like the quality of calorie. I'm not worried about a professional athlete like that. Guy puts out enough work that that doesn't matter. So maybe should he eat more salads, Sure we all should, but he
should keep eating the Popeyes because he's pretty good. But he's in a like, he is incredibly strong, especially for his age, and this has always been a thing for me, like as a scout, I love strength on the wing, like I loved Kawhi Leonard coming out of college because he was already so strong. He was also a decent shooter already, but he was so strong that it puts him ahead of the game and it applies defensively but also offensively. We know now Kawhi is so good at
using that off arm to create space. Well, Anthony Edwards has been able to do that basically since he got into the league dropping his shoulder. I mean he's not quite built like a wide receiver, but he's not far off. You know. He's got good shoulders, got a good back, and he uses his body in a way that it reminds me of Michael Jordan. And then he's so under
control and just determined. Like that's the thing is that it's kind of that mindset, which is funny to say, but when you watch him play, it's like, God, he's got a little bit of Jordan in him.
Yeah, he really does.
It's fun to watch him, and there isn't any comparable player in today's air that you can really say, because he's just.
So big, you know, And I don't know I said this, maybe a month into the season.
Exactly what you're saying, which is the only way that this pairing can work with Rudy Gobert and Edwards, is Karl Anthony Towns just can't be on the floor.
You just can't.
The space that Aunt Edwards needs is just there's just not enough space on the floor for them all to have taking up space without that creating a clog in the lane, which essentially neutralizes a lot of the things that Aunt Edwards wants to do right and limit Sam to a perimeter score.
Carl Anthony Towns is too good of a player for you to just say, Okay, you're.
Gonna go be Chris Bosh in Miami late stage.
Kevin Love right now, by the way, Kevin Love and Chris Bosh both better than Karl Anthony Towns when they made that switch, better than he is right now to wow. Oh yeah, come on, no, Look, he's not a winner. I'm sorry. Like, you can put up numbers all day long, it doesn't matter if you don't win basketball.
If you put Karl Anthony Towns on the Warriors.
Where he's the fourth best player.
Yeah, what what is what is that?
He probably he probably is frustrating. He probably winds up being a lot like Dylan Brooks for them, Yeah, where it's like this guy's taking up possessions and just doing weird or dumb stuff. I mean he's not he's not
proven to be a guy that like makes other players better. Yeah, you know, it's a little bit like it's like Anthony Davis if you took away the All NBA Defensive Player of the Year level defense, right, So it's like very much like offensive style Anthony Davis, where it's like he'll put up numbers, but man, I don't feel his offensive impact all that often. Yeah, and with Karl Anthony Town it's kind of the same way, but no defensive impact whatsoever.
So no disrespect for Anthony Davis mentioning him in the same breath as Karl Anthony Town's here, but just the lack of defense really just kills him. If he defended, if he defended his position at an average level and was able to just blend into the offense of what they do, be the release valve. I mean, he could be a guy who attacks off the dribble theoretically, he just doesn't. So you know, I just don't I don't think that that world exists.
I want to ask you about We talked about Tim Conney and what the job he did for the Nuggets, But I feel like I saw on your Twitter that you don't like watching them based on you saying a casual fan would like watching the Denver.
No, no, no, no no no, I love watching it.
You love watching them?
Well, it's good team basketball, right and casual. Look, casual fans. What is the guy that you run into at the bar when he finds out what you do for a living?
Oh?
Man, you know love watching the Warriors. The Warriors were musty TV because the ball was flipping and flying all over the place. It's not like watching pick and rolls is boring. Yeah, pick and roll after pick and roll after pick and roll and then going to the free throw line. It's boring. I want to watch offense. I want to watch stuff happen and low key. This is one of the reasons why the NFL, I think, is
so much more popular. Number One, you have a more educated fan based part of that is because just style of the game, you get more time to explain. It's also linear, so you're going in one direction. I can tell you exactly what everyone's doing or as in basketball, you've got actions that come away from the basket. You know you've got there's just it's it's a little bit more of a confusing game. It's a faster paced game. There's more possessions. But we love a good pass in
basketball more than we love a good dunk. Just straight up. We love a good dunk, but a good pass. And this is why Jokic is the perfect guy to put in front of the masses, because the guy throws some ridiculous pass that they have to go to replay to
show you three times a game. And that sort of style of play where you have backdoor cutting, Aaron Gordon catching lobs, Michael Porter Junior just can sometimes catch fire, Jamal Murray takes some of the toughest shots that you've seen in the league, and then Jokich just kind of controls everything. That is to me a casual basketball fan, which is what I am. Yeah, I'm I want to just turn on a sport and watch it and enjoy it. I mean, I do this for money, right, like I
do this for a living. But like when I watch football, I'm not sitting there. I don't have the stat sheet out I don't get paid to talk about football, so I'm just watching the game. I want to enjoy it, and so you know, it's just like that. Women's college basketball is my favorite. The women's NCAA Division one is my favorite domestic basketball because I turn it on. They play good offensive systems constantly. There's a lot of variation, right it's college basketball, and I don't have to care
about it. I just watch it, enjoy the hoops. It's great. And I think that the Nuggets if you highlighted them, the Warriors, you know, which we already have the track record for it, and of course Steph Curry helps with that. But I think team based basketball is what casual fans are attracted to. If you wanted to get more more eyeballs on your league, show them teams that play basketball instead of just, you know, the sort of heliocentric marketing machines that we've got.
Is there any way.
Is there any way to incentivize We'll get back to the Nuggets in a second, but I do want to ask this because I feel like you're you're someone who thinks about the future of the league in terms of where it's headed, where it should go from like a not just a pure marketing machine standpoint. But yeah, yeah, how do you incentivize teams to play more like the Nuggets do?
Is that?
What is that?
Well?
Rule changes would help number one. So defenses don't have a chance right now, the pick and roll is powerful because defense doesn't have a chance. Whether you switch, it doesn't matter. Illegal screens are never called. Traveling is rarely called. And I don't want to sit here and sound like Rick Berry. I don't mind if they don't call it travel if the move is cool.
Yeah, what do I care?
Like I'm watching, I want it to be fine. But you're talking about basketball. I mean, the defense has no chance to defend, period. So I think that you could create an environment where you don't even have to incentivize team play because the natural inclination of basketball, it's a communist sport, sharing the sugar, like the ball has energy, like we know all this stuff like for a reason.
Team basketball is the key to the sport. And so if you can take away the individual a little bit by actually allowing these guys to play defense, call the illegal screens, you know, take away some of these offensive fouls they get away with going to the basket allow teams to guard, well, then you're gonna see they're gonna have to make passes to create those little, you know, advantages on the margins. That's what the Warriors do. It's
like death by a thousand back cuts. It's backcut, pass, tape, screen past, you know. And we love Steph Curry. We love watching him because of all the mastery off the ball. That's basketball. That's how it has been played since it's really been organized, where you had dribbling and passing and jump shooting right like, I would rather see that. I mean, I love watching the Warriors because I'm I'm a triangle guy as a coach, so I love the triangle concepts
that they brought in. They flipped it, made it modernized, took everything outside of a three point line. But then they get layup lines at the basket. And then you watch a team like Boston that has struggled to get to the rim. They don't go to the free throw because they don't really run anything. This is you know, Historically they were a harder watch, but the teams like the Warriors, teams like the Nuggets, it's just a joy. I don't want to watch pick and roll all day. It's boring.
Yeah, yeah, you think the Nuggets are for real?
You know, I think they are as real as anybody is.
I think anyone this year to you Milwaukee, Yeah.
Austin is you know, on the cusp of real. I think that they're real. They went to the Finals. There's just some stuff there that I don't quite trust, Like they don't seem to trust their own offense late in games, and that gives me some pause on Boston because it's the same thing that they did last year. But I think Boston and Milwaukee are about as real as you can get in the East, and Denver is probably the only team that's serious right now out lest Like Steven
Adams coming back from Memphis will be huge. Steph Curry is going to be back for the Warriors and so that changes everything for the Warriors to me. But I think Denver they should be the favorites to come out of the West. Like they have what you need their late game defense. You know, for all the knocks against their defense, their late gay defense, they do have another level and they turn it up a notch. Aaron Gordon's
been great, but also Jokic Layton games. He has had a lot of clutch defensive moments, whether he's you know, flashing out and rushing the ball or making plays at the basket like he's just you can see he's almost conserving effort on the offensive end to to be able to turn it up late on defense. So there's a there's been a change there, and I think that internally they probably feel like we need to make the finals
this year. Jokis for sure feels that way because he's gonna win his third MVP, and you know, he can he can say all he wants that it doesn't matter, you know, like he doesn't hear the noise that stuff is gonna start eating at him because he's a competitor and the guy is a killer. So I think that they should be the favorites come out of the West. It's easy to say because they're the one seed. Yeah, I seem very smart right now, but they should be
the favorites. But I still haven't sold my Warriors stuff.
I just was about to say that, So I haven't sold my stock as well on the Warriors just because I feel like as soon as I sell it, that's when they turn it on.
Right.
Yeah.
Oh, there are people who are obviously out on the on the Warriors, on our dubs because of death, because of you know, lack of experience outside of the core, some of the guys that they lost last year, Gary pay not being healthy and who knows when he will be to you, and obviously Steph Curre getting injured twice doesn't help, and they're just kind of mathematically in a bad spot right How high is the Warriors?
Are the Warriors ceiling right now? To you? Is it still a finals team?
Yeah? I mean they won the title last year and they still have Steph Curry, and as long as Steph is healthy, then I give him a shot at winning the finals, not just making it, but winning it. Draymond has been awesome. Draymond's been great. Klay Thompson has looked better than he looked in twenty nineteen, like significantly better, not better on the defensive end, though well no, no, no, hold on now, his defense had declined in twenty nineteen.
I actually think he looks better on defense than twenty nineteen, specifically that one year, because his defense had declined. I don't know if maybe he was dealing with an injury that season that wound up compounding and becoming you know,
the hamstring which became the knee. I'm not sure, but his defense looks better and part of that is he's playing up a little bit more so he's guarding bigger guys, which is what he should be doing anyway, Like Steve Curse had a few weeks back, I think about Clay as a four sometimes that's his future. I mean, I think, you know, when you're six seven and he's got a good sized body, he can guard four as no problem. Now you don't want to do that, you know, for
eighty two games. But by the time he gets to the playoffs, expect to see him guarding a lot more for us. But he's come around. Jordan Poole is you know, you never know, but when you get Steph, you don't count on Jordan Poole. The thing is, what they've figured out is Dante DiVincenzo. That's a playoff player for them. If Wiggins is gonna come back and be healthy, we know what he is. And Jonathan Kuminga is legitimately a
force for them. He is an up like he is an up and down the court athlete that they have been missing, and so you add him to the mix and all of a sudden, I mean they've got pieces. Now, Well, this relies on them actually playing Kevon Looney for every important minute of the game. And I'm still not convinced that Kurr is going to do this. But if they play Kevon Looney for every important minute, they should win the title.
Wow.
Period.
Wow.
Kevon Looney is I mean, that guy is legitimately good, and he stays underrated somehow, but he is so important to what they do on the glass. That's the number one His number one job is just go out, get as many rebounds as you can and let us score. And I mean he's really really good at it. They rebound as a team better when he's on the court. The whole team does, so, I think Kevon Looney. But yeah, obviously, if Steph is one hundred percent the Warriors, they should make the finals. Wow.
The other team in the West that we haven't really touched on yet, and I feel like they really tried their very hardest, kind of like the Nuggets did at the trade deadline, just to really improve some of the holes that they had. They didn't always succeed at that, right, I don't necessarily think they got the point guard that they were hoping that they might be able to get in Bones Highland and Eric Gordon and then Russell Westbrook
in the buyout market. Kind of feels a little strange, but it explained to me a basketball scenario because Tyler, I think is one of the best coaches in the league.
Help me understand.
How Russell Westbrook what role he could be in to elevate this team to a finals caliber team.
Yeah, I don't have an answer. Wow, he doesn't fit. I mean, there's an argument to me. May and he makes him play faster because those guys play slow, so he gets them into stuff faster and early in games. I think he sets a good tone for him so far, and he's had moments. First quarters for him have been pretty good. He had eight assists I think in the
first half of the game yesterday. There are times where it's Russ's doing okay stuff for them, But then at the end of game you got him out there closing and the Timberwolves were able to go into full ball denial on Paul George and Kawhi and neither one of those guys are fighting hard for the ball period. They're just not Tyler's out there on national television, begging his begging his team to play hard, just to play hard, not play He kept saying, they're playing harder than us.
We need to play hard, not we need to play harder than them, because he knew that team, this is not the team to ask to play harder. Just play hard, period, just hard for once. So I don't know what he can do. Maybe he can get him to play hard, because if there's one thing you can say about Russ is Russ goes hard. But Russ going hard usually equals bad stuff. So I don't know like his role is. I'm not sure. Is he supposed to fire these guys up? Isn't that Tyler's job?
Is Is it?
Like as soon as you touch the ball and the wing rush, just attack the paint, like, just go to the basket. Is that?
Is that?
Sat? He brings the ball up too much? So this is the thing. I think. You know, it's hard to play him with a center, yep, because of the spacing issues that you're gonna run to agree right. Well, No, it's different though, because Ant can shoot the three.
Yeah exactly, he can. He does more obviously, but in terms of just needing.
Right, So with Russ. It's worse because he can't take those open threes that they're gonna give him, and with Ant they're guarding him on those threes. And Aunt actually has gotten really good at moving the ball, relocating and getting catching shoot opportunities, which opened up a whole new, you know, driving kick game for him. That again, better player right now, Russ, he's got to be. I think
you bring him off the bench number one. What they were doing in LA actually was kind of working for him. Bring him off the bench and let him just go against second units, eat up innings for you for real, instead of putting out there in these high leverage moments. Maybe he can find success on the margins playing against lesser players, you know, attacking the basket off the dribbles great, but he needs to not bring the ball up. He needs to be playing more of a two to three,
like a wing guy than point of attack guy. But like you mentioned, they you know, look at who they got. They got Eric Gordon, they got Bones Highland. Their best option was already on the team. Terrence Man. Just play him, Just play Terrence Man. You know, he's bigger, he's a better defender. I just don't get the the hesitance to
to play Terrence Man in these big minutes. But I think if if you're gonna have Russ out there with with your main guys, if he's gonna be in the starting lineup, Paul George needs to be the guy bringing your ball up and initiating your actions, and you need Russ to be able to just catch and drive. But they're gonna hang four feet off five feet off Russ. They're gonna have a foot in the paint. They're gonna be helping on the nail.
But they're not worried about collasing.
They won't be collapsing on whatever side Russ is on though, right, I mean, because he'll just attack.
So if attack, but if he attacks, it's one roadation and his finishing is just not where it used to be. So he's not he's not going to threaten your defense. So you're happy to have him just touch the basketball again. I'm going I go back to the play the end of the game. Now, Russ came back the next possession hits a big three. So this is the thing with
Russ is like he is indomitable. You were not gonna he is not gonna beat himself and he'll he'll beat himself in the court, but he's not gonna do it in his head. And that's valuable too. Maybe you just need that mindset out there for the Clippers, but they were the Wolves went bald denial on Kawhi and Paul George, both guys who are not gonna fight excessively hard because
they're not gonna try hard right now. Yeah, And and you wind up with Russ being defended one on one in a matchup that he probably felt like he liked but gets forced into, you know, a fade away and deep in the paint or mid paint. But it's a bad look because it's tightly defended and Russ has no legs by the fourth court yep. So you know teams are just gonna be pumped and they see Russ out there the Clippers.
Are done done?
Does that mean don't play hard? Like, I don't know how you can expect to win basketball games that matter in the NBA being too cool for school. It just doesn't make any sense to me.
If they're done, and we'll only spend like forty five seconds on this because I know you have a heart out and I have so many things to ask you still if they're done done right and they perform well below expectations, which is finals basically Western Conference finals or.
Bus is Lawrence Frank gone?
And like Bob Myers in, is that like a realistic thought?
I mean, they probably hope. But what's he gonna do because like move things? Yeah, Paul George? Yeah, then what do you do? Kawhi wants to play with Paul George?
Does he really care that much?
I think he does, really, I think he does. I mean, listen, Russell Westbrook is not there by accident, right that you think Lawrence Frank made the call on that he did not?
Yeah?
So I look, if I if I were this team, I would do what what the Brooklyn Nets are trying to do. Not necessarily blow it up, but I would say, hey, look it's not working your way, dudes that play basketball. Maybe we need to let the basketball people make decisions around here, and maybe you guys ought to try being basketball players and running offense Tylo and you know, look, I've been a guy. I've been on the Tylu tran since he took over in Cleveland. The guy actually is
a pretty good coach. But you're not a good coach if your players don't play hard for you, So you know, I can't even say you're not a you know, I'm not gonna say he's a bad coach, but he's not. He's not coaching well right now because they don't play hard period. These guys show up every single game and it looks like they've never played basketball together, never even met, much less played basketball. There's a bunch of strangers trying
to play basketball together that speak foreign languages. I don't. I really am confused by the Clippers, or maybe I'm not confused. They literally just they're strangers. They're strangers. There's no familiarity whatsoever. The people are in and out of the lineup. The team has been completely reshuffled. I mean losing Reggie Jackson for this team, what are they gonna do come playoff time? That guy has hit the biggest shots for them every single playoffs since he got there.
Who's gonna step up and be that Guy's not gonna be Paul George?
Well, we know that podcast. P Does he have a podcast podcast?
I have a personal rule, man, You know, you don't want a guy on your team that has a podcast if he's not an All star, Like if he's not like an All defensive player or an All NBA guy. Don't have a podcast.
Let's go to the East.
It feels like you talk way less about the East and the West.
I think the East is less interesting, is that?
Why?
Yeah? Less interesting?
Do you think Quinn Snyder has any chance of doing anything in Atlanta if they don't trade trade Trey Young?
Nope, nope. I mean I don't like to use the term coach killer, but as close as we've got to it in the league, it might be Trey because he's clearly talented on the offensive end, but he's not out there playing basketball with his teammates. Again, like, the whole goal of a coach is to create a team. That is your job, whether that's managing the egos, coming up with an offensive philosophy that works, coming up with rotations that work, you know, all of these things that we
know goes into the job. But you got to get him to come together as a team. And Trey just does his thing. Trey is Trey out there and that's it. And so until you can get through to him on that, no, you don't have a you don't have a shot. Maybe he will, though, I mean, look, Quinn Snyder is a good coach, He's got a good track record. Donovan Mitchell swears by Quinn Snyder, and you know, Trey and Donovan
Mitchell are kind of tight. So maybe that helps, you know, like get some a foot in the door with Trey as far as like getting him to listen or whatever. But I think this team would be better off they traded Trey Young. I mean it just they could probably get a bunch of good assets and they had become a pretty good basketball team fast. I mean, John Collins has been on the block for some reason since they drafted him. And the guy all he does is put up twenty and ten.
And he's checked out. He's checked out.
And well, but what for a good reason?
Yeah?
Right, Like if you if you're out there trying to play team basketball and you have a guy dominating the ball and not playing with his teammates, I wouldn't want to play with that dude either. Meanwhile, to John say Murray, you see these games where Trey Young's not out there? Did John say, Murray, I mean you want to talk about sharing the sugar and doing your job and bringing the other guys up. I mean, did John say Murray
can lead that team. I don't mean, Look, this is not like he's not best player on a championship team. But let's be honest, the Hawks are not a championship team anytime soon, which they're young either, so I would just move on. Yeah. I don't know. Quinn Snyder's a good coach, but I don't think he's gonna be able to work that one out. I don't know if anyone will.
Not in Atlanta, Not in Atlanta, that place is.
I think that there's not enough conversation around how toxic that organization is right now, Like how Bill Rider put out an article today and it was everything that I've been saying since all the Travish Flank drama went down. I don't understand why more people aren't discussing, Hey, alert alert, things are Game.
Of Thrones down there.
It's not good the way that they've structured things.
The I don't know, man one of their owners. One of their owners does commentary for the NBA. Yes, Like what am I supposed to care about this stuff? Like there's a point where I just have to stop caring because none of it makes any sense. Like an owner of an NBA team who happens to be a former player, right, great, but why is that guy calling games on NBA TV? Like that's bullshit? Right Like, So we could start there, but that's a league thing. So, you know, the entire team.
I don't know what's happening in Atlanta there. I mean, luckily we don't ever have to worry about them. They don't do anything. Yeah, they're not making the finals probably, Honestly, if the Atlanta Hawks ever make the finals, I'll be shocked.
I find the international pool of talent to be fascinating. I talked to Jerry West a little bit about this over the summer. He thinks that France by way of North Africa is going to be one of the big growth areas for the NBA.
For you, what region do you find to be the most interesting?
I mean, the Balkans have been incredible, right, Like, they've been putting out players for you know, thirty forty years, So I think I start there. You look at the skill level, especially the big biggs, the Yokches of the world come from there. Nurkic comes from there. You know, Boban came from there. The what they're doing with centers and big men as passers Poku some of the ridiculous stuff he tries. I mean, this is this is the environment that they sort of fostered. But I agree, I mean,
I think I sort of agree with Jerry West. Africa in general is being scouted so much more. You know, Basketball Without Borders has been in there and they've been doing you know, obviously the bal so we're gonna get more talent out of there, and the NBA is trying to circumvent all the pro clubs in Europe from going
in there. Right, So the French League is super athletic compared to the rest of of the the leagues in Europe, and so one of the reasons why I like getting more players out of the French League is I have a sense of what these guys play against other what they look like playing against other high level athletes. Whereas the you know, if you look into ACB, you can see, all right, these guys are better basketball players. But for sometimes when you're scouting, it's tough because the basketball part
comes slower than the athletic part, if that makes any sense. Yeah, yeah, So, I mean I'd love to see guys at all different levels, but I think my favorite is just what they're doing with big men in the Balkans. I just it's it's just different, you know, guards, It seems like guards develop all over the place, but the big they're just growing them in the Balkans right now.
And they play that team style of basketball that again will be a part of fostering. If you could have which I don't think will ever happen, but if you had thirty Jokic's or fifteen jokic is ten Jogics, that changes the entire dynamic of a team.
Yeah, and how the one problem there is that it's below the rim, you know, and that that's the biggest difference in athleticism between the European leagues or really any other league and the US League and even n Cuba is more above the rim than like EuroLeague. So you know, you get in the Adriatic League down there where it's even lower level. It's so below the rim that a lot of these guys don't see top level athletes until
they get to the NBA. So that's sort of the big thing is like the skill gets to a certain point, but you know, how does it translate when you go and you play against superior athletes? Guy like Jokic, who can dominate the pace of a game, which is the most valuable single skill in basketball. Whether it's Luca, whether it's Lebron. Steph Curry dominates the pace by speeding you
up and Jokic slows it down. So like dominating the pace, that stuff comes from the team building side that they do over there and then coming over and trying to figure out how do I make my athleticism translate in the league. That's above the rim, and again, few and far between are the Jokics. You know, he's a top twenty player of all time when it's all said and done. So it's a different it's a different thing, but I just like what they do. Plus I know a bunch of those coaches.
Yeah, that helps.
I have been thinking, obviously a lot about Victor Wambyama and where he's gonna go, and the fact that there's a handful of places that I can envision him going. I personally think if you were the Okay see Thunder, I would give up half of your first round draft picks in the next four years to get them, like seven of them if you can. If you feel like he's gonna be healthy, that's I don't think people will say yet, Like, I don't think any team says yes, but maybe you could get.
Someone to fall into that trap.
But for you, do you think that there's any team that Victor Wambayama won't transform? Nope, you think he would transform the Houston Rockets, Yes, the number one.
You need a new coach there, but yeah, you have to flush everyone else out. I think maybe you can keep Tarry Easton, but I would everyone else would be gone. I would start with a whole new slate, I mean top to bottom. I would bring over one of his coaches. Well then no.
No, because going that roster intact, and I don't know.
He's probably going to be too good. I think he's gonna be good enough that it won't matter. I'm I'm curious what he's going to do to the sport, honestly, like I'm I'm not worried. If, like again you you mentioned him being healthy, I'm gonna throw that out. I don't because I try not to exist in the world where these guys aren't healthy. Like I'm I'm rooting for him, rooting for me because I want to watch this guy.
But what is a guy who's seven foot five with that handle, with that jumper, which you know, hey, look we see all the makes. He's not He's not Kevin Durant from out there yet, but he's got the stroke for it. He's going to I I don't know what he does to the sport. Can he lock five shots a game? Probably? Can he make five threes a game? Maybe? Is he gonna average fifteen rebounds a game as a rookie? Maybe, Like I mean, just from being tall and being there, he may put up numbers that cause us to to
just have to rethink numbers in basketball. His height is unteachable. You cannot teach. You know, this is just like he is a freak of nature. There's a scenario where he's like MVP level, you know, production player right away. If he's on a bad team, this guy is going to touch the ball, He's going to score, and you know
he defends. I mean, his defense is actually the thing that I'm most excited about, because this guy he cleans up mistakes in a way that just I don't know that we've ever seen so before.
I let you run then in an ideal world, best for the league.
World, where does he go San Antonio? That's what I think too.
Yep, but they have to they have to not do their their San Antonio bullshit. No G League. I don't want them to go to the G League. I don't want him playing fifteen minutes a night. I don't want him shut down over a hangnail. Like I'm just actually sick of this. Like this is the stuff that you know, I'll let I don't really talk about this on my own podcast, but I'll let it come out here. The stuff that really pisses me off, as like an NBA fan,
is that, like you're disrespecting me. Like these guys they have relatively short careers, play them, play them. And now, certainly there's a lot of injuries out there, but the Spurs do a lot of bullshit with their rookies. And I'm just tired of watching people lose on purpose. So you put Victor out there, and you're not gonna lose games for very long. I think he's gonna figure it out pretty fast. And he might be a guy who's he may rewrite the game, like we may be seeing
rule changes because of this guy. Wow, he's just different. It's completely different.
Well, thank you so much. I know you got a heart out this was fun. We got to do this again.
Dave four.
Follow him on Twitter. He won't.
The tweets won't last long conversation.
It just don't. I don't care enough about being right and wrong to leave stuff up.
The opposite of me, I care so much. Dave defour again. You can follow them on Twitter. Give us your handle, It's Dave four, NBA NBA. Find him on Back to Back podcast. Find him on the NBA's Daily Ding. Follow him on Instagram. I don't think you're available to do Instagram. No again, thanks again so much. No, you put like stef you rock climbing on there.
So that's why.
That's a lot. That's all the time that we have for the Heat Check.
Do not forget to watch the feed for past episodes and interviews.
Please follow us on the heat Check as.
The twenty twenty two twenty twenty three season heads towards the playoffs, download subscribe. Please tell all your friends, every single one of them that includes you, to Dave and follow us on socialie at this heat Check and actress to criek on TikTok because the Heat Check never sleeps, especially during a record breaking weekend like this past one.
Thank you, so much knucklehead, Well you see you next time.