In the game of life, Maintaining a healthy lifestyle and nurturing meaningful connections with family can be among the most formidable challenges we face.
We were, in some respects football players playing tennis. We brought the Northern Michigan fight to everywhere we played.
Yet for many professional athletes, fostering both has proven to be a triumphant recipe for success.
You never thought of tennis as this rough and tough thing, and so tennis just took our family places that we could never do in other sports.
I'm John Frankor. For the past two decades, I've traveled the globe covering some of the most impactful human interest stories in sports. On this show, I'm sitting down with some of the biggest families in the game, the legends, current superstars, and the up and coming playmakers to understand what's really making them tick. What can pro athlete families teach a new generation about the importance of caring for
your health and finding success in the face of adversity. Together, we'll hear stories of their remarkable comebacks, setbacks, and the crucial role their family and self care played in their paths to championship glory. This is part of the game. The early nineteen nineties were a transformative time for the game of tennis. Pete Sampras, Steffi Groff, and Monica Sellis
dominated the courts, winning multiple Grand Slam titles. Another superstar, Andre Agassi, helped to sell the game to an entirely new audience with his brash demeanor and flamboyant style emmen Is Everything. No One, however, had a bigger and more immediate impact on the game than Luke and Murphy Jensen,
with their wild hair and love of rock music. The Jensen brothers hit the hardcourt with a shaggy haired vengeance and ushered in the era of grunge tennis, which is just another way of saying they stood out from most other tennis players. Outsize, charisma and irreverent style of play made them folk heres for a new generation of tennis fans and made them superstars off the court, daring to be different. As Murphy once put, it was their brand.
We are now flying around in private jets and limousines and the commitment. I felt like I was in a hurricane in the tornado. For the next eight to ten years.
The rude dudes of tennis as Rolling Stone called them also had serious game. On June fifth, nineteen ninety three, they proved it on national television, winning the French Open doubles championship. The Jensens were the toast of tennis, even getting to play under the lights at the US Open, virtually unheard of at the time for doubles matches. Unfortunately, the good times didn't last long. Instant stardom proved overwhelming for Murphy Jensen.
I was restless and I self medicated, and that eventually led to using drugs.
On top of that, it would take him years to rebuild his life, but he did. He found a new purpose in helping others fight addiction, and like his big brother Luke, he stayed close to the sport that gave them both so much. But Murphy Jensen's struggles were not over. One afternoon in twenty twenty one, he nearly died on the tennis court after going into cardiac arrest.
So he's there on the ground, I got people all around, and as the professionals are trying to bring him back to life, get his heart going, they give me the assignment to keep talking to him, to keep him with us. And the only thing that kept popping in my mind, is I may be saying the last words of my life to my brother.
Once again, Murphy Jensen was tested, and what followed is another chapter and the remarkable story of two of the most unique figures in the history of tennis. I'm really pleased Luke Jensen and younger brother Murphy Jensen spending some time with us here on heart of the game. And therein lies the crux of this story, which we will get to because this really is about the heart when it comes to Murphy Jensen. But first we want to talk about you guys as the rude dudes for those
who don't know the Jensen brothers. Is it fair to say took the world of tennis by storm? You'd been out there, you'd been journeyman. You right, that's a fair way to put it, journeyman.
I would say so. I mean we were out there. Murphy's two and a half years younger. I turned pro after two years at Southern cal and then he showed up on the scene at Southern cal for two years before going to Georgia for a year. But I had been out there for a little bit and making my way on the double side of it. And then when Murphy kind of showed up, he had to go through the minor leagues and then going into ninety three that season, we had made a decision to live a lifelong dream
to play on the tour together. So his ranking was in the top one hundred I was in the top ten, so we could get into most of those tournaments. And we started out in the Middle East in Doah, Qatar, and so that was our start as a doubles team on the main tour. We played some minor league tournaments together, and of course when we're younger, but this was the real deal. We were committing to the tour with each other.
When you decided to play together. Was that willingly or was that big brother saying you're going to do this because I want you to do it?
Well, I mean along the way there's blood, sweat and tears to get to that decision.
But you had serious game.
Well, we had enough of the game to get there, be there and win there at the highest level at the French Open. It was a journey from a Christmas tree farm in northern Michigan, a sacrifice for mom and dad to give us an opportunity to live our dreams and everywhere we kept going in this game. At tennis, Luke was the number one junior tennis player in the world at the age of eighteen, on the cover of Tennis magazine, alongside, you know, ahead of Becker and Edberg
and all of them. And so he made the decision to go to college, which was, you know, really a bad move, Luke.
I want to go back to your youth for a minute. You grow up on this Christmas tree farm in Luddington, Michigan, right, which is all the way west. I mean literally on the on Lake Michigan. Yep, right, if I have it right. Maybe not the tennis hotbed of the world, Luddington, Michigan. How do you guys end up on a tennis court.
The biggest thing was we had parents that were ex athletes. My dad ended up playing college football at Minnesota and then Memphis State, transferred there and then for a cup of coffee for the New York Giants. We got his contract and it was you know, all this Sam Huff and all these guys back and you know, some amazing times. And then my mom was a frustrated athlete six foot two, played basketball in high school, but there was no title
nine for her. So we have two frustrated athletes that go get their degrees in physical education and they park their place in nineteen sixty six and have four kids in this small town in Lennington, Michigan, and when they decide to have kids, they want athletics to be their kids avenue to see the world. And tennis was the one sport. I mean, football was supposed to be our sport, but tennis was the one thing that my sisters could play and my brother and I could play, and we
could go to these same tournaments. And to be perfectly honest, it was the Arthur Ashes and the Billy Jean Kings, the Chris Everts and Jimmy Connors and these people who were at the top of the game at the time that really inspired my parents. Like tennis is the vehicle because not step on a football field. And there were kids just as big as I was, if not bigger, but in tennis, I was like the dominant alpha physically.
And then Murphy, I mean Murphy's six foot four. I'm six ' to two, And at the time tennis was really a whimped sport. You never thought of tennis as you know, this rough and tough thing, and so tennis just took our family places that we could never do in other sports.
Given that your dad had this background in football, was he a drill sergeant on the tennis court? Was he a guy? Did he bring that football mentality to teaching you the game?
I mean it started really with the football. We used tennis as the vehicle to become great football players. It wasn't to become great tennis players. I can say he took the old school football mentality of we were showing up for practice on time, if you know what I mean. But at the same time that discipline, there was nothing but love from both sides. If anything, it was about
behaving properly. That was the real message. That we gave this thing everything we had, and so we were taught at an early age that you do things right in the right way, and you're going to see results.
I would assume, as you guys progress in tennis that your goal was singles. That's where tennis put the spotlight.
Well, no doubt, we are doing everything. We just wanted to play, and whether singles doubles are mixed, we were playing tennis. We were spending thousands of hours in those tennis courts seven days a week. Three sixty five, I turned pro. Luke had had an injury that sidelined them, and money was tight at home, and his doubles game took off real quick with a win at Monte Carlo and he breaks the top ten, maybe even top five
that year with Lorie Warder. But at the same time it was pretty obvious that if we're going to play doubles with anybody on the tour, we're going to play with each other. And the off season Christmas and New Year's of ninety three, before going to the DOA, we were on our way. It was grunge tennis, you know, everything, grunge Seattle, and you know, we didn't have an image, and we didn't set out to do anything but to
kick some button win, you know. The next twelve months and then six months we won a little tournament in Paris.
Just a small one. It's at this place called Roland Garss I think I've heard of.
There's a huge tower there. Check it out.
Let's talk about the landscape of tennis as you two begin to make a name for yourselves. Tennis in the late eighties early nineties, it's still largely considered a gentleman's sport, but there was also this transformative period. Okay, tennis is not just on the back pages of the sports section. It's really beginning to take front and center for a
lot of people. And then you guys come along, And would you guys agree that you guys took the tennis scene by storm and you were these brash young brothers who brought that football mentality of your dad's to the tennis court.
There's no question that's exactly right that we were, in some respects football players playing tennis. And if I look back at John McEnroe gets to Wimbledon as a seventeen year old and he starts throwing his racket, going crazy, and they started there was a buzz about it. Well, we started high five and in fighting. We brought the Northern Michigan fight to everywhere we played.
People knew they stepped on the court, they're going to play a couple of rough lumberjacks.
Basically, let's go back to nineteen ninety three June, you win the French Open doubles, you win a Grand Slam. What does that feel like?
Well, for me, it was the greatest accomplishment. You fight so hard in that match in the finals, we were down three to zero in the third and I remember specifically thinking that if we don't win this, we ever get here again. Like their matches that listen, you want to win, but it's not going to kill you. If you lose, it's a nice, you know, moral victory. But you get in those finals. There's a big difference between being known as a French Open champion or a French Open runner up.
So you win this match, yep, and not only have you survived and advanced, but you've won it all. How does life change for you, guys on and off the court as a result of that win?
Once you win those majors, you're a made band like no one could ever say you were never good enough. You're a French Open champion, you are a made player. Everything you thought you could be, you just accomplished it. But Murphy, what were you thinking on the other side? Two things I felt in that moment, One that there were like the tennis gods were accepted into this club of those that win something like this. And the second thing an overwhelming feeling that I found out later.
My hands started shaking. Then I had a panic attack and my outsides in that moment. We were the best in the world in that moment on that day, But my insides were in my head was saying, you know, you suck, You're not enough.
You know, just wait?
Did you feel like an impostor?
I think I was just scared.
Scared of the limelight, the expectations.
Scared of what was to come.
Everything changed for the brothers after the French Open victory. The Gentsens were no longer just the gregarious siblings who put on a show on the court. They were Grand Slam champions and in high demand. Always willing to promote the sport, they kept up a whirlwind schedule of media appearances in kids clinics. They even began getting appearance fees to show up at tournaments, something that was on heard
of for doubles. In nineteen ninety five, they played under the lights at the US Open on primetime television, a spotlight that almost never was available to doubles players. The Jensens had officially arrived, but the skyrocketing fame took a toll on Murphy. He began missing matches and skipping appearances while his career on the court was peaking. By nineteen ninety nine, his life off. It was spiraling out of control in a haze of substance abuse.
I don't think I was ready emotionally, definitely not ready mentally. I didn't have the tools to embark on what was to come. And what was to come was Big Agent signs us to a deal. Peter Moore, Bob's Drasser by Zadidas. Peter Moore made the Air Jordan's shoe, and now he's sketching out what the Jensen Brothers image and brand's going to look like. We are now flying around in private jets and limousines, and I felt like I was in a hurricane, in a tornado for the next eight to
ten years, absolutely out of control. I was uncomfortable in my skin. I was restless. I found myself starting to self medicate and isolate with alcohol, and that eventually led to using drugs on top of that in pills.
It was during the nineteen ninety nine US Open that Murphy Jensen had reached the end of his rope and contemplated the unthinkable.
We lose whatever around. And it was during the time my son Billy was being born twenty four years ago, and I was looking at jumping out of a window in New York City, and instead of a hotel manager calling the police, he called an interventionist. And by the time I got to Los Angeles maybe a week or two later. You know, I went through a psych word in the detox and got help.
First of all, I'm so sorry you've gone through this, Thank you, But it sounds like you're doing okay today. Yeah, I'm doing great, given that you're now how many years sober?
Twenty four years in recovery. I had a reoccurrence relapse after four and a half years, and I have not had to look back in seventeen eighteen years.
Just so the audience can understand here, it wasn't the glory of winning a Grand Slam and becoming celebrities that led you to this partying life that has occurred with so many other athletes. All of a sudden they hit it big. There's money flowing in, there's limos, there's private planes. Everybody's throwing a party for you. Yeah, that was not why you fell into this lifestyle. It was for you more of an escape from that very existence.
Yeah.
I think the centerpiece what I've learned over twenty four years, what I treat on a daily basis even to this day. Is my head will tell me I need to be somewhere other than where I'm at, or whatever I'm doing isn't what I should be doing, as opposed to, you know, having the tools and the ability to be still, be calm, be present, breathe, relax. You know, it's called the human condition. I've been restless, irritable, and discontent for a long time.
I go back to first time I ever was offered an alcoholic beverage and I was twelve thirteen years old, and I had no interest in that stuff and no exposure to that. But the reason my motive for saying yes is I wanted your approval. I wanted your affection, you know, I wanted you to like me. And of course and then hey, get to high school smoke this. What is this? I wanted you your approval, I wanted
your affection. Now I've got the approval and affection, and I found myself in my playing days on the two and I'm absolutely empty and in some ways soul this and I was so afraid to speak up or ask for help because I didn't know what the heck was wrong with me.
Were you playing matches under the influence?
Yeah, I have, Luke.
Did you know the first time I found out? And I forgot what year it was in Rome? And Murphy was always kind of a free spirit. Sometimes I had to get my own practice partner. If he didn't practice for a couple of days, that was understood. But one day goes by with no practice, and then the day before we play usually we get at least a practice in and he didn't practice. So I just had this
really strange feeling. He's not answering his phone. So I go down and get his room number, and I go to the floor and I just noticed or here on his floor, there's some noise or something at the end of the hallway. So I start going towards his room and it's the noise is coming from his room and the door is open, every light is open, the TV's on is just loud and bright, and there he is on the bed with his eyes wide open, and he had a cigarette in his mouth looking at me. I
didn't know he smoked. At that moment, I was brought into a world that I had no idea even existed, much less that we were playing professional tennis and he was in that.
State, Murphy sought help for his addictions. Years later, once he had turned things around, Murphy realized his story of recovery and redemption could help others who were struggling with substance abuse. He co founded the company We Connect. Its mission is to help people tackle their mental health and drug abuse issues. You took your path and used it as an opportunity once you got yourself clean and back
on your feet, to then try and help others. You wanted to pay it forward, and you start this business with some other folks called We Connect. Why did you choose that path?
We grew up Catholic, and the difference between religion and spirituality is religions for people that are afraid of going to hell, and spirituality is for people that have been there. And I follow a spiritual path and one of my values and principles of service to others and helping others. And it was never to start a company. I didn't ever see any of this as an opportunity. At the truth that be said, those early days, it was the worst thing that could have happened to me, absolutely ground
zero of hell. So you know I've co founded We Connect. In speaking of that spiritual. I left tennis nine years ago with no We Connect on the other side, and there wasn't like I want to work in recovery. My heart told me I had more to offer this world than coaching superstars and expensive tennis ex experiences, and so We Connect is a mobile application that has support and services and it's basically a lifeline, anonymous and confidential lifeline.
Any mom and dad, brother sisters, support group meetings built in an app, and it's unbelievable. We've served millions of people from thirty countries currently and it's our job and our mission and at that at our organization is to help others.
Luke, when you hear Murphy talk about what he's been through, how does that feel as an older brother?
The number one thing is that recovery works. I'm a witness to that to see him grow. His weapon in tennis was his serve, but his weapon in life, his purpose in life is to serve others.
When we return, Murphy Jentsen on turning his life around and just when he almost had it together, everything came crashing back down.
And now Murphy's serving is looking at me and he's smiling because we're just having fun. He's setting up the serve and all of a sudden, he just crashes to the ground. He's gone into a cardiac arrest.
Part of the game. We'll be right back and now back to part of the game. After their playing days ended, the Jensens both continued to stay involved in tennis in various ways. Luke Jensen went into TV as a tennis analyst for ESPN. He then coached the Syracuse University women's tennis team for nearly eight years. Murphy Jensen also maintained close ties with the sport while continuing his recovery and
his work helping others with addiction. In twenty twenty one, the brothers were playing in a celebrity exhibition in Colorado for the Good Grand Slam, an event that raises money for sudden cardiac arrest awareness. As Murphy was getting ready to serve the ball, Luke looked over and realized something was terribly wrong with his little brother. He was having
a heart attack right there on the court. One would think that dealing with the addiction that you did and sinking to the depths that you did to where you're contemplating suicide, but then you come through it on the other side, you'd think that's the worst thing I'm going to deal with in life, and maybe it was. But then you fast forward to October of twenty twenty one, and you guys are back together again on the tennis court,
right playing in an exhibition. Take me there and tell me how the day unfolds.
Yeah. So I'd just taken a job as the director of tennis at the Garden of the Gods. So Murphy says, you know, I'll come out. We'll play an exhibition for your first week and celebrate. So we're out there and we're playing a little doubles exhibition. Murphy and I are always talking little trash and who's going to win and everything. And we've got a couple hundred people there, and now Murphy's serving is looking at me and he's smiling because
we're just having fun. He's setting up the serve, and all of a sudden, he just crashes to the ground. The first responders they know right away through their professionalism he's gone into a cardiac arrest. One of the medical professionals says, where's the defibrillator. I know, for my training being there, my facilities walk through as anything I've got an AED thirty feet behind me on that court.
Just so people understand, an AED an automated external defibrillator defibrillator yep.
So there was blood coming from the back of his head. So now we had not only cardiac arrest situation. He had flatlined. And as the professionals are trying to bring him back to life, get his heart going, they give me the assignment to keep talking to him, to keep him with us. The only thing that kept popping in my mind is I may be saying the last words of my life to my brother. What do you say
to someone who's been your best friend, your brother. You've been with him your entire life, and you're saying goodbye our whole lives. We have this thing in our family. It's a motto basically that Jensen's never quit. You can lose, you can be tired, but Jensen's never quit. Your family is here, Your family needs you. They'd gotten the heart going, and then you would hear the doctors that are checking
his pulse. No pulse, no pulse. It took seventeen minutes for the ambulance that get there, and in that time he had flatlined four times. That was the toughest part for.
Me, Murphy, what do you recall, since obviously you were in a situation where where you had flatlined, you had died more than once, what do you recall Do you even remember tossing the ball to serve?
First off, I remember nothing, And that's very common for a cardiac arrest event. Is some people I've talked to have lost a couple of years of memory the lack of oxygen for that long. It's a miracle that I don't have permanent brain damage today. There were no symptoms, you know, it wasn't shortness of breath, numbness in the fingers or any nothing like that. I have no memory of the day before. I may have for you know, lost a month for all I you know, to think
about it. You know, when I was stabilized in the coma for six days, they didn't know which Murphy E they're going to get back, how much brain damage have been caused, the skull fractures and concussions. And I come too, and Luke is there, and my wife Kate says, you know you're in the IC. You had you been in a coma, you had a cardiac And it was really a couple of days of them repeating that murphy.
Before you have this traumatic and dramatic event in October of twenty twenty one and experienced cardiac arrest, you did have a history, right of some heart issues before this, is that right?
Yeah?
Eleven years ago I was diagnosed, or maybe even longer, I had a virus as a result of getting the fluid attacked my heart. It was called viral cardiomyopathy. And then when they did the MRI or the scans, they showed an enlarged heart as a result of a lot of athletes have a heart that does a lot of work and enlarged heart, and that led to an atrial fibrillation a fib issues where I've had two different oblasons and a number of cardioverts to reset my heart.
Did doctors think you were at risk of having a severe heart attack?
Back in the days of my viral cardiomyopathy, my heart function was less than eight percent. It was horrible, maybe even less than five percent at a terrible heart function, and they had me on meds they would prescribe to a ninety year old. A normal heart function is actually around fifty percent, they had told me, And at the time of the cardiac arrest after two oblasions. Over time, my heart function was over eighty percent, So I could not have been in better physical heart health.
Is there any hint or suggestion, medical suggestion that what you dealt with in substance abuse may have contributed to your heart issues.
That's a great question. I spoke with doctor wu who's the president of the American Heart Association and that runs the Stanford Heart Institute, and he's doing the work on my heart cells, and we talked about my drinking and using days said that it would not have shown up in that cardiac arrest event. But what they did find after ten months of growing my heart cells is that my heart cells respond to stress differently than a normal
heart cell. So if being in high altitude is stressful, if physical activity, you know, I'm learning a lot, John about heart function and cardiac arrest happens every ninety seconds. And it's not just old dudes and men women. The leading cause of death for women, I think is heart disease in some form. It happens more than you know.
Tell me if I'm wrong here. When these events unfold, when you have this cardiac arrest event on the court, were you playing in a celebrity exhibition event that was trying to raise money for the awareness of sudden cardiac arrest.
So for eleven twelve years I've been participating in an event called the gud Found and it's about bringing awareness around CPR, chess compressions and AEDs. Stephen Couter had died of a cardiac arrest while out running in perfect health with the family, and so I was aware of AED, CPR, chess compression and cardiac arrest. This event was at the Garden of the Gods resort, and I had been playing a lot of tennis, so it was no problem for
me to do this. It was a few hundred people in the crowd, and by the grace of God, there is some off duty medical professionals, an ex fire chief and people who knew what to do in a timely manner and an AED ten feet from the court.
That's one of the key parts of this right and lends itself to the work that you're doing now, which is somebody yells out, we need the AED, and Luke knows exactly where it is, and that raises two big points, one that there's actually an AED site and to somebody knows where it is, and that's not always the case, is it.
No.
I've found out, you know, I've become quite emotional about this gift we all have called life. Luke was told the day before where that AD was. And luckily, what I have found out that there's less than thirty percent of the tennis courts in America have an AD that's just tennis. And I hear whether it's a mom or a dad or a child on a soccer pitch goes down and you might have an AED. But is it locked in the closet, you know, somewhere in the school.
Is it?
Do you know that anybody can use it? You know, I'm at a fancy resort or a country club and it says for authorized personnel only. Well, if someone's going down, I don't think that person that's gone down cares who's authorized and who's not. A seven year old can open an AD and say dad or Mom's life.
And John, all of a sudden last year, we're in washingt d c. And Murphy is with the mar Hamlin and they're putting a bill on the table to put AEDs in public facilities throughout the United States. To be in that moment where Murphy Jensen has come so far, and the power of Washington d C in this country when it works is a very powerful moment.
You speak of the emotional impact that this has had on you and the psychological impact that this has had on you. What sort of physical changes did you make did you introduce into your life in terms of nutrition and fitness as a result of this major cardiac event.
Every day I have boxes I check, and I'll do thirty minutes of cardio, and I'm plan as much tennis as possible, or oxygen and meditating, anything to slow down. You know, it's so easy to get wrapped up. I think I need to be mindful of the amount of caffeine intake. It's funny, my wife said, on that day of the cardiac arrest, I had an abnormal amount of caffeine on that the day before and the leading up to it in high altitude, possibly dehydrated, and the potassiumility
to banana every day. So I low it up on any and all diets that will help my brain function and memory. I can get overwhelmed with loud noises and bright lights, so I try to avoid that at all costs. If you see me wearing sunglasses inside it because it's really bright and it's given me headache or something. I do the physical to help my mental and I do the mental work to ensure that I'm held accountable to what's going on between my ears, because I can't afford
to get angry. I can't afford to go there. It's such a gift to be able to take care of ourselves and take care of myself. I know what it's like not to be able to walk or possibly talk, or to be dead, and I'll be damned if I don't live.
This is called heart of the game. So I'd like you each to answer this question. What is the heart of the game to you?
Yeah? To me, it's the ability to commit to something and commit to people that believe in you, invest in you. And if you can find a community that wants to give you an opportunity based on your dreams and your potential and what you're willing to commit to it, everything
is possible. So when I talk to kids today that do have dreams that get sidetracked, there's always an opportunity to come back to that heart of the game, to what you truly believe in, which has to be yourself and your superpower, which is I love myself and I love what I'm doing every single day. I may not win the day, but in the end I will win.
Murphy.
You know, tennis, the scoring system says that love means nothing, and I have learned that in this thing called life, love means everything, you know. So the heart of the game for me is to love what you do, be around people that love you. Today's the day. The time is now. Cherish everything you know. And if nobody's told you they love you today, I do. And there's nothing you can do about it. And I say that a lot. And I got that from John Robinson, who is the
tech on the on the detox and psych word. When I was so hurting, he said that to me, and I share that with anybody that I meet, and I mean it. Arthur Ash is famously quoted as saying true heroism is remarkably sober. True heroism is not the urge to surpass others at what I cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost, you know. And service saved my life. People helped me and cared for me
and carried me. And that's what I'm doing, is I'm carrying it forward, and to me, that's the heart of the game, is to be of service in every area of my life.
It's really touching. And I've spent the last two and a half hours thinking I was interviewing the Jensen brothers, and I feel like I was just talking to the Dalai Lama. Where's the rip, roaring, high five and chest bumping brothers.
We're there, We're still here.
You guys are very much here. The Jensen brothers, Luke and Murphy were a big haired phenomenon. They gave tennis a joelt when the sport was in dire need of a reset. Their outsized personalities and big time ability made them superstars who inspired a generation of players. The Brian brothers, identical twins Bob and Mike, when more Grand Slam than any other pair in tennis history. They cite the Jensens
as a huge influence on their careers. Many years after their professional tennis careers ended, Luke and Murphy continue to inspire others through their work off the court. Daring to be different continues to pay off with the brothers all these years later. On the next episode of Heart of the Game, meet the first family of Water polo. The Fishers Aria and Mackenzie Fisher are two of the greatest
players in the history of the sport. They'll talk about the challenges they faced winning Olympic goal, what they learned from their dad, and just how rough it gets in the pool during a match.
We could see the pain that he felt from getting fourth in his Olympic games and how much he wanted that final game back. What was imparted in me from a young age was making sure that you're putting everything into the game so that when the game does end, at least you can be confident that there's not anything you're wishing for back.
Part of the Game is a production of Ruby Studio from iHeartMedia. Our show is hosted by me John Frankel. Our executive producer is Matt Romano. Our EP of Post production is Matt Stillo. Our supervising producer is Nikkia Swinton. This show was edited by Sierra Spreen. Our writer and researcher is Mike Avela. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.