Blaise Delfino: You're tuned in to the Hearing Matters podcast, the show that discusses hearing technology, best practices, and a growing national epidemic: Hearing Loss. Before we kick this episode off, a special thank you to our partners. Starkey - Hear better. Live Better. Audibel - The Joy of Hearing. Listen Carefully - Like a Fingerprint, Every Ear is Unique. Weave - the all in one patient communication and engagement platform. Welcome back to another Hearing Matters podcast episode. I'm your host, Blaise Delfino, and joining me today is Matt Starner of Echo-Norvell Hearing Aid Service located in Newark, Ohio. Thanks for joining me on the Hearing Matters podcast, Matt.
Matt Starner: Thanks, Blaise. Happy to be here.
Blaise Delfino: So Matt, you've been, uh, you've been quite busy the past two weeks, you know, between testifying in front of Ohio's 134th General Assembly and ensuring that your patients have everything that they need before the holiday season. You've gotta be both tired, <laugh>, and excited.
Matt Starner: Yeah, I I would say probably more tired than excited right now. Um, it's, it's been a whirlwind!
Blaise Delfino: And you just helped a ton of patients in an open house!
Matt Starner: Yeah, yeah. We had a very successful open house. It, it, you know, it's, it's funny in, in the years I've been doing this, I've always noticed that there's, the time between Thanksgiving and and Christmas in our offices are either a home run or nothing. Uh, either people realize they had a problem in Thanksgiving and they beat down our doors to come in, or we see three patients the entire month of December. So, um, hopefully this is a good start for December for us.
Blaise Delfino: Matt, before we really dive into the meat and potatoes of this episode, cuz it's really exciting stuff and thank you so much for your advocacy. Before we discuss your testimony in front of Ohio's 134th General Assembly, share with us the history of Echo-Norvell hearing aid service. What inspired you to get into the hearing aid industry?
Matt Starner: You know, it's funny cuz people ask me that a lot and, and really truly, I, I stumbled into it. Uh, you know, I'm a big believer that we're put in the right place at the right time for the right reasons. And I was actually unemployed and right outta college, I'd been, uh, selling life insurance through Western Southern Life Insurance and hated my job. And, and my mom was watching the newspaper every day, you know, back in the days when you saw the classified ads in the paper for jobs. And she called me up and she goes, Hey, here's a job. Apply in person downtown Zanesville doesn't say what it is, but it's a sales position. Go check it out. So I pulled up and, um, it was a Beltone dispenser and I sat in my car for 30 minutes deciding if I was even gonna go in to inquire about the job.
I'm like, you know what, I'll go in if I get the job, I'll do it for six months till something better comes along. So I went in, I met with the owner, and long story short, I was offered the job and continued to look for something better. 25 years later, I'm still waiting for that, something better to come along. But, you know, one, once I, once once I saw how we could change lives, you know, I always joke with people when they ask me what I do, I'm like, well, I'm the guy that you're gonna write a $6,500 check to and then give me a hug and thank me because, you know, and that, and that's kind of a rare thing. And there's not many people that you have that relationship with where you're gonna write 'em a, a check and then give him a hug and thank them for helping you change their lives.
But that, that's honestly what we do. We change lives. And once I realized that side of it and started putting the pieces of the puzzle together, that it wasn't about sales. It wasn't about selling hearing aids, it was about helping people and changing lives. That's when things really come together for, for me specifically. Um, and that's when that, you know, when you talk about inspired and passion, that's when that came. Uh, I didn't start off inspired and passioned in this industry. It was a, it was a way to pay the bills, but I was looking at things the wrong way. Once I started looking through the right, the right lens, everything kind of came together for me.
Blaise Delfino: Isn't that interesting how when your perspective changes, especially when you're in the hearing healthcare industry, it really comes down to the fact that the more you give, the more you receive. And you're definitely a go-giver, Matt, for sure. Matt, why Audibel? Who is Audibel and how have they helped you build your business?
Matt Starner: So my boss at the time, um, Beltone was going through a lot of changes. So, uh, they dropped Beltone and, and we, we really as a group, the owners and myself looked at different avenues on, on where we we should go next. Uh, you know, they wanted their next step to be their retirement step and I was right there with them. So, um, we, we dabbled a little bit with some Oticon hearing aids. Um, we dabbled a little bit with some Siemens hearing aids at the time, and we ended up with Quine, uh, which was the division of Starkey. We really, the Quine products, uh, really like the, the home feel of it. But that opened the, the crack of the door a little bit for, for the Audibel network. And if you, if you go back in the history of Audibel, Audibel was based on Beltone dispensers that were unhappy just like the Norvells.
So for, for us, it was kind of a natural transition to join back forces with that national network that we had with Beltone, with Audibel. So when you, when you went into your Lane Hates and Wayne Murphy's and some of these, these guys were legendary Audibel or legendary Beltone people, they all came to Audibel. And, you know, when you start talking about the advantage of Audibel, it is the dispensers, it's the network. It's what we bring together as a group. You know, Audibel does help us in every aspect of our business, don't get me wrong, but it's really that, that group of dispensers that sets Audibel apart in my opinion. You know, after dealing with other manufacturers over the years, I, I never hesitate to ask from Audibel cause I, I normally get what I need.
Blaise Delfino: It's a, it's a network of like-minded individuals.
Matt Starner: It, it really truly is. It really truly is. And in that group of those, those first Beltone dispensers and the first Audibel people that came on, uh, they're known as the Atlanta Club. And those people have really been instrumental in my, my entire career as an owner and a dispenser. Um, once those people really opened my eyes to changing my mindset, that's one thing start falling in place. I I've gotta, I've gotta give, give credit to those people.
Blaise Delfino: And Matt, while you've been in the hearing healthcare industry for over 25 years, you are very active, not only in the community, but also in the industry in and of itself. So discuss some of the state boards that you serve on and why that's so important.
Matt Starner: Yeah, it, it's funny because my, my old boss didn't want me involved with anything like that. He tried to, he tried to downplay being involved in this thing and, and I think looking back at it, it was, he didn't want me to see that there was a world outside of him and maybe lose me to another dispenser or something like that. So, so until I was actually an owner, which happened nine years, a sole owner nine years ago, um, I was a partner with them for several years in transition. But I, I can remember sitting at the factory in Minneapolis and, and talking to some of those, those guys that I had mentioned earlier. And, and it was funny cuz it was like they were hoarding court for me. It was, it was like five Audibel Hall of Fame members all sitting there talking to me.
And they were, they were telling me how important it is to become involved. You, you don't have to sell 1500 hearing aids a year to make a difference, not just in the community, but in, in general, in, in the industry. So I immediately, um, changed my, my, my focus a little bit and, and a friend of mine, uh, who is an Audibel dispenser an Dayton, uh, Joe Rosengarden was the, the treasurer of the Hearing Healthcare Alliances of Ohio, which is our advocacy group. And he's like, Hey, we need the help. We need people, so why don't you come to the meeting? So I came to the meeting, somehow that escalated into me becoming a trustee for the, for the board. And then it just kind of built from there. And I ended up being the vice president of the Hearing Healthcare Alliances of Ohio. And I, and I was, and I was happy doing that.
And then one day out of nowhere, I get a call from the governor's office and, uh, they asked me if I wanna be on the hearing aid dealers and fitters licensing board. I could not pass that opportunity up because now we're talking about an ability to make a real change with, with laws and rules in, in the state of Ohio. So, um, I joined that board, was immediately voted by my peers as the vice chair, um, which was mind numbing to me at that point, that somebody trusted me with that kind of position. But I did find pretty quickly that I was on a sinking ship. Um, at that point, governor Casey and Ohio was doing a lot of combining of boards. So our hearing aid side was just one board by itself. They wanted to put us with audiology and speech pathology, which were already in one board and then us and then eyes, ophthalmology, optometry, optometry texts, and all this was gonna be under one board.
And we fought pretty hard and we got all the eyes stuff taking out, but at the same time, we ended up getting merged with the, the audiology board, um, which was a little scary because we didn't know what we were getting into at that point. Uh, governor Mike DeWine was, was the new governor, and he appointed me to the new board, which was a blessing. There were only two hearing aid dealers, um, in Ohio that were chosen to be on the new board. And I, and I was lucky enough to be one of them, which was key because when, when traditionally audiologists and hearing aid dealers don't get along real well. So it was nice to be able to have me there to fight for us. And, and to be honest with you, it wasn't much of a fight. Um, they understood where we were coming from, we understood where they were coming from and, and we've gotten calls from other states asking how we made the transition so smoothly because we, we truly did. Um, so I started four years on that board and just stepped down from that board when I got the call from you guys about being a, a, an ambassador for listen carefully. So, um, I thought I was out, but I ended up right back in. So,
Blaise Delfino: Well, you have made quite the impact, Matt and I am so confident that you're going to continue to make such an impact in the hearing healthcare industry and your patients and community. Absolutely appreciate it. Now, you acted swiftly upon receiving news that your Ohio State hearing aid specialist licensure could be eliminated and replaced with a registration. The proposed bill, HB 5 0 9, was recommended by the Sunset Review Committee of Ohio and was made known by the Hearing Healthcare Alliance of Ohio. Matt, this news comes at a pivotal time in the hearing healthcare industry where there have been changes to the hearing aid device and service delivery model. How did you receive this news and why is your advocacy so important for the hearing healthcare industry, but most importantly the patients?
Matt Starner: That's, that's a great question. Um, it, it, it kind of happened fast, uh, with me not being a member of, of any board at, at this time. Things happen fast in a lame duck session of legislators. Um, they try to get a lot done at the end of their session. So that's kind of what we ran into. Um, but I woke up Tuesday morning a week and a half ago, uh, to a text message that I got at about 11 o'clock the night before that I just didn't answer. And it was a real simple message from a member of the Hearing Healthcare Alliance, Ohio. It was, can you testify tomorrow to save our, for lack of better terms buts? And, and I, I, I had no idea what he was talking about. So I, I just, who, what, why I needed to, to know the answers.
And they came back to me and said that, um, they were changing our licensure to a registration. And immediately my min my mind went into overdrive because I thought, well, that immediately means we cannot bill insurances anymore cuz they, to be a provider, you have to be licensed. I wasn't even thinking about the f d side of things yet. I was thinking about all the things we get credentialed to do and how that was all gonna disappear. So I shuffled my schedule around, and by three o'clock the next afternoon, uh, I needed to have all my ducks in a row. So the, before I even sent a another text back to, to Joe, um, I reached out to, to you, uh, Michael Schroll and Dave Faber Starkey. I kind of saw that as, as my super team to put together to get on top of this, uh, working with Amanda Signs, then who's the lobbyist for the Hearing Healthcare Alliances of Ohio.
Over the course of that Tuesday, there was a lot of communication going back between all the moving parts. And I think it was about six o'clock my time, um, on that Tuesday evening, we had a Zoom meeting and, and a plan was in place for me to testify in front of the committee and, and how we needed to educate our, our legislators and make sure that they understood exactly what they were proposing and how it would impact, you know, how it's all about small business more than the consumer. They were, they, if you wanna get a legislator's, uh, uh, attention, all you gotta do is talk about businesses going outta business. And that will get their attention pretty quickly. You know, they, they were really trying to pass this to make it easier they thought, to make it easier for people to start a hearing aid practice, and it was gonna have the exact opposite effect.
And then after talking to the group at Starkey, we also realized that under the FDA regulations, you have to be licensed to sell prescriptive hearing aids. Uh, so, uh, you know, that was immediately gonna put us all out of business. There was no, no other way to look at it. So we went into, to the meeting and, and it wasn't just hearing aid dealers, uh, they were looking at school psychology licenses, uh, funeral home directors, crematorium licenses. Uh, there was something to do with some fire chief licensing that they were, they were trying to change. So there was a room full of people that were, that were, uh, testifying on all these different changes. So I stood up and did my, my little bit, and I, and I think I, I could tell that they were surprised by the ramifications, and I think the unintended consequences of, of this, of this change they hadn't looked at.
They had, they had no idea what was going to happen. So I was glad to see our system work the way it should, that our elected officials listened to us and did what was best, not just for me and our business, but for the constituents. You know, the, all the hearing impaired people in the state of Ohio would be out of lock very quick. Um, and I don't know what would've happened at that point. So, you know, I I, it, it was, it was funny how quick it happened. And, and again, I'm a big believer being in the right place at the right time. You know, I, I, I'd been involved through the Listen Carefully program just in its infancy stages here. So I knew who to bring into the equation. I knew that bringing in the Starkey Group to me, it was like calling the Justice League and saying, Hey guys, let's go. Um, you know, so, so we were able to go in and, and, uh, and as a group come up with the, with the right answers and, and, uh, and get the, the situation taken care of and
Blaise Delfino: Really keeping patients safety and satisfaction at the forefront, Matt.
Matt Starner: Right. And, and that was another thing. Yeah, they didn't, they didn't look at that, you know, and, and to me, that's a whole 'nother conversation for another day about OTCs. But that's been my complaint with the OTCs all along is, is patient advocacy that, you know, are we missing just something simple as a wax waxy ear plugged up? Is that's, that's what's causing the problem. And as far as a, a tumor, you know, uh, uh, an acoustic neuro or something that we catch in our, in our offices every day. So we're missing out on that, on that piece of the puzzle with OTCs. But again, that's another conversation for another day.
Blaise Delfino: What, what I admire so much about you, Matt, is number one, your love for your patients, your passion for hearing healthcare and keeping their safety as the top priority, because you were on this so fast and just so humbled to have been part of this process because we too believe that the patient safety and satisfaction needs to be at the forefront of every decision that is made. And what an opportunity for us today, right now to educate our elected officials on the importance of what we do as hearing healthcare providers. Earlier in this episode, you discussed having served on many state boards to ensure that patient safety and satisfaction is top priority. Not only do you serve on these state boards, Matt, but you run a hearing healthcare practice, you make time to support Ohio State. Uh, you're also a listen carefully ambassador, and you had mentioned that couple minutes ago. What is, Listen Carefully and what does a Listen Carefully Ambassador do?
Matt Starner: Yeah, so my involvement is just kind of still in its infancy stages. Um, but I, I'm really excited about the opportunity because, um, listen carefully is a, a group that's committed to facilitating, uh, greater connection between hearing healthcare professionals and our lawmakers, um, that's gonna ensure that, that they're educating on what we, what we do, um, and that we're getting quality solutions for all of the, the Americans suffering from some degree of hearing loss. You know, that's upwards of 44 million people that were, that are affected by this. So we need to make sure that, that our lawmakers understand exactly what we're up against. And, and Starkey's been real good about that over the years. Also. I mean, you know, they, they started with President Reagan back in the mid eighties where he was at the factory and seeing what goes into it, what actually does go into a hearing test and everything that the ma of the hearing aid and the device and making sure it's set up right. So, you know, Starkey I think spent at the forefront of, of this before we ever really had a formal organization of Listen Carefully. So it's, it's nice to see that advocacy continue.
Blaise Delfino: Absolutely. And special thank you to Brandon Sawalich and Michael Scholl for really getting the Listen Carefully program up and running, because it is for the patient's safety and satisfaction. And number two, it is a medium to support the hearing healthcare provider because we are at such a pivotal time to raise awareness of the importance of hearing healthcare. Because Matt, there's, there's been so many threats in our industry. And if you think about the dental industry, every industry has threats. But I feel like we are at such a pivotal time in our industry that we can really make an impact together and raise awareness of why the hearing healthcare provider must be a part of the equation. You talk about like-minded individuals - every listen carefully Ambassador believes patient safety and satisfaction is number one, and number two, they are there to serve their patients, serve their community, and educate their elected officials. Matt, what can fellow hearing healthcare professionals do today to educate their elected officials on why hearing healthcare is best served in the hands of the hearing healthcare professional?
Matt Starner: I, I think it's very important that you reach out to your, to your lawmakers and, and you explain to them how important what we do is, um, that's another part of the equation that did come up during the, the whole, uh, deregulation, for lack of better term in Ohio. You know, a big part of that was we also had the grassroots part of where we were writing our senators and our, and our elected officials. So locally, um, I, I'm blessed, I know who our local state senator is, and, and man, he was right on it. He was, he was on it immediately. So I, I think it's very important that you, even if you just start with your mayor of your town, you know, I, I've been very fortunate that the mayor of Newark, Ohio is a huge advocate of Echo-Norvell hearing aid services.
He talks about us all the time. He tells people about us all the time. Um, he was able to come in and see what we do. Um, we hadn't, we had a, a grand opening, and that was an awesome opportunity to, to bring in the mayor for a ribbon cutting. And he saw what we did and how passionate we are about what we do and our equipment and how nice our facility is. And all these things come together to where, you know, he, he recognizes my wife walking down the street now, uh, because of, of what we do here. And I, and I think that's always a great place to start, you know, get involved with your, your, uh, chamber of Commerce, uh, cause they're gonna have those connections to our elected officials. Also, county commissioners, uh, councilmen, get those people involved. You don't have to go to the state level.
Um, that's what Listen Carefully is going to do more of. But you can do it yourself in your own practice. You know, promote yourself in your practice as the, the expert. Let your elected officials know that you're the expert in your area. I think that that really goes a long way. Um, and then if, if they're smart, they, they, they understand it. If not, then um, they still may fight you. The the other part of it, honestly, and, and I know most states have an advocacy group like the Hearing Healthcare Alliances of Ohio. It is so, so important to be involved in things like that in IHS. Both be a member, pay your dues. I know it can be tedious writing out that check once a year for those dues, but in Ohio, we would be working under a registration right now instead of a license.
If it wasn't for the Hearing Healthcare Alliance of Ohio, if that organization would go away, there's no lobbyist and there's nobody there to catch this stuff before it gets outta control. So in Ohio, we have approximately, roughly 435, uh, licensed hearing aid specialists. 70 of them are a member of the Hearing Health Alliances of Ohio. 70 people are doing the heavy lifting for our entire industry. And, and that needs to change because we're all starting to get older. All the people that are involved are starting to get older. Um, I've only got a few years left and, and this for, for myself. Um, so it's important to people get involved. You know, reach out to your local or your state organizations, everybody has it. Be a member of IHS. Take care of those things because if not, there's nobody there to fight for us. There was no other manufacturer besides Starkey Hearing Technologies that came to bat for the dealers in Ohio. One manufacturer - they don't really care about us. They, the other manufacturers don't care. I talked to a guy from a manufacturer last night that's a friend of mine. He didn't even know what was happening. You know, there's, and there's no excuse for that. So, be involved, be proactive, get involved in IHS getting, getting involved in your local stuff. That, that, that goes a long way.
Blaise Delfino: Matt, thank you so much for all that you have done and continue to do for your patients and for the hearing healthcare industry. If patients or hearing providers want to learn more about Echo-Norvell hearing aid service or connect with you, where can they find you?
Matt Starner: Easy, of course, on the web, www.echonorvell.com. Facebook is the same. We actually have two offices, one in Newark, Ohio, and one in Lancaster with two separate Facebook pages. So yeah, we, we appreciate the followers and the, the positive comments.
Blaise Delfino: Absolutely. And what we'll do, Matt, is we will put your social media handles in the show notes. So if anyone wants to connect with Matt as a hearing healthcare provider, Listen Carefully Ambassador, you'll be able to do that with the links in our show notes. Matt, thank you so much for joining us on the Hearing Matters podcast.
Matt Starner: Oh, thanks for having me, Blaise. It was, uh, it was, it was interesting for sure. Uh, it's something that's outside of my comfort zone, but I'm glad you invited me to do this.
Blaise Delfino: We're looking forward to having you back on in the future. Thanks again for joining us. You're tuned in to The Hearing Matters podcast, the show that discusses hearing technology best practices, and a growing national epidemic: Hearing Loss. I'm your host, Blaise Delfino, and joining me today was Matt Starner of Echo-Norvell Hearing aids Service. Until next time, hear life's story!