Oh, hello and happy a year. Welcome to Healthy Ish. Thanks for joining us on our first episode of twenty twenty five. Of course, this is your podcast from Body and Soul. I I'm your host for listening, Halee. Now, if you just returned from summer holidays, or perhaps you're still in the throes of it, this episode is going
to inspire you to work less and play more. In twenty twenty five, author and business coach Emma Lovell joins us to discuss how to balance traveling the world with work and living a life you love aka the Art of Pleasure. Emma, Welcome to Healthy Happy new Year.
Happy near tear too exciting.
Oh, I can't believe it's a twenty twenty five. Do you have a healthy resolution?
I don't exactly believe in resolutions, but I do set an intention, and I choose a word for the year, and my word is calm.
I think we all need that word. The last few.
Years haven't been calm, so it's a been a whirlwind would probably be.
The retrospective word.
With Toddler, I do with Toddler.
I did release a book.
There was a few things going on in twenty twenty four, so I just I want if I have calm and go into everything with calm as the intention, So having a calm mindset, then you know, and the question you can ask yourself will will I be calm? Or can I be calm doing this? And then that kind of will dictate. So calm.
I like that. I feel like that's a word so many of us need.
Yeah, the word that people tend to choose is balance, and I just think balance is a fallacy and I don't It's just it's it's you kind of going to strive for this unachievable goal because there's never going to be balanced. So the word I tend to use is harmony, because things go up and down, and so if you go in with calm, that kind of gets the balance that you're after, but without that pressure to be like everything's fifty to fifty or even because it's just never going to be.
Well, good luck, I should say, all the best, get luck.
Let's chat in twenty twenty six about.
This word pleasure. I come across this before I saw it on the front of your book. Took us through the concept of pleasure.
So pleasure typically, I mean, people don't know the word. I didn't create it. I own it, but I didn't come up with it. It can live it, I live it. So it came up in two thousand and nine. Some future forecasters made up the word it's business and leisure. So bleasure can get confused with pleasure, which is part of it, but bleisure, but I've taken it to another level. I guess for me, pleasure means combining business, travel and
having self care. So it's that harmony of those things so that I can live a life that I love. And I think it's kind of you know, you go on a business trip or you go on our trip and at the customs desk they go, are you here for work or holiday or family? And I'm kind of all of the above, And so bleasure is that fusion of that for me. And it's being able to include your work, include your home life, include your the things that you love that whatever leisure looks like to you.
For me, that is travel and making it work.
Yeah, because when I first read it, I was thinking, or read the introduction of your book, I thought to myself, but it's kind of like the digital nomad, but it's not really how is it different from that?
So digital nomad and I really say that I'm not a digital nomad because over the years I've always looked my office is a work, my laptop and my phone.
That's how I work.
I've always been remote and flexible. But I think digital nomad people think in order to do that, you need to pack up your life, go and live somewhere, probably Bali or on a tropical island for three months, and you have to have a digital online business. But the thing about pleasure is it's combining your work and leisure.
So work for you could be anything. My husband drives boats, say, like, he could drive a boat anywhere people go and ski go and work in ski fields, you know, or fruit picking or house and pet sitting.
You know. Work can look like anything.
And so I don't want people to think that, oh, well, I don't have an online business, I can't do pleasure, or because I'm not working and traveling at the same time, I'm not doing pleasure. There's a confusion between pleasure trip
and pleasure life. And one of my colleagues made this, like, had this profound aha moment because she kept trying to think about how she could work and travel at the same time, not how she could look at this as like the rest of her life, how she could harmonize how she worked and brought in travel and leisure and things she found fun.
So how do you make it work? How do you bring your business? Perhaps tell us a bit about what you actually do traveling the world and having a gorgeous family.
Yeah, well, look, I guess that we should probably take a back step. I've been running my business for fifteen years. My business started because I broke my back in a snowboarding accident. I thought I could just run a business. I was in UNI, you know, just I'll just start a business.
Anyone could do anything when they're in UNI.
Yeah, studying PR and marketing. I'll just start mo own company. But I was never gonna have time. I was already kind of, I guess, racing towards burnout at twenty two, and so the universe decided to stop me. And it was in that rest forced rest time, lying there not able to do much that I was like, Oh, that business thing I was thinking about I could do. So I got an ABN, I told people I was running a business, started getting clients, and off I went.
I mean, I converted.
I was working in an office doing some PR and marketing for them, so I just got them to pay me via invoice, so I had a client. So originally I was doing PR, marketing and social media. I mean, and that's done from a computer, so wherever my laptop was, I was going to be so and it's something I established from day one, and it's one of the top tips I give is that you don't need to kind of have an office or if you tell your clients this is how I work, there's no kind of oh my gosh, I'm in Hawaii.
They can't know.
You're still delivering. You're delivering what they want and doing your work.
It doesn't matter.
It's only maybe for the time zones that you needed to say, but it shouldn't matter because I've always yes delivered my work.
So over the years it evolved a little bit.
And I ended up going to coaching, personal brand coaching, combining that sort of brand expertise. And then it was actually in twenty twenty three that I kind of realized I'd been separating this travel side of my life even though I'd made an income from travel. I'm a travel partner of a company in India. I write articles on travel. I had made money from travel, but I still had this kind of belief you can't make money from travel, and then that the business was separate, even though I
was running my business and traveling. And it was somebody asking me that question, looks seriously, how do you do it? You have a kid, you run a business, how do you do it? And I said, well, it's a choice, and I choose to do it, and I choose to make it work. Because if I'm not having fund in my business, if I'm not traveling, which is like one of my highest priority I just love it and what it gives to me, then it's not worth it. And so it's a choice. And then I kind of went, oh,
to people, not is this a thing? People don't know how to do this? And I realized I'd been doing it all along. I've been doing it for my entire business journey. So then the pleasure term was said to me. And typically pleasure was like going to a conference and staying on, like going from flying into Melbourne for a meeting and then staying on for a few days. But I just have taken it, yeah that way step further.
How do you make it work? Like perhaps getting a bit more granular, like, how where's your house? How is you Charlie? You're not having a child in school yet, you know, how how do you perhaps how do you make it work before your son versus after sun?
Yeah, before I could kind of just pack up and go. I mean even since I've been with my partner now my husband for ten years, so even.
Well, yes, yeah, you know your permanent job.
Yeah, yeah, he works at SeaWorld, so the sharks can't so't go with us, they have to stay there.
Way to have a dad work like amazing to have a dad working at SeaWorld. Yeah, he's very cool.
I think that's normal.
And when I, like six year old me is like, oh, I'm married the dream guy, living the dream. But yeah, so his job is very fixed, but we do get flexibility in terms of he can take longer periods off. So that's how we made it work. So I've had to learn how to make it work with him. A lot of it's communications, So when we would travel together, it's just it's communicating to my clients, it's communicating to him, Hey, these are the times I'm working. So say, one of
the best trips we did, we went to Europe. I'd wake up at six or seven in the morning, do three or four hours of work. I was like, I don't care what you do, but do something I'm working, and I really enjoyed that focus. Then we went out and explored Rome for the rest of the day, you know, and if I needed to catch up on a few things,
check in at night, that's fine. But having that dedicated block and communication that this is when I'm available when I'm not And so then I think when then I had my son, you just get really clear with your boundaries and you get really clear with your time. And I probably worked a lot more than I do now, but funnily enough, my income stayed the same, my hours went down, and then I've managed to increase my income at the same hours because you just like, I don't
have the time. And I think that was with travel too. It's like I want to enjoy the city, so I've got four hours get it done. And the same with you know, he's in childcare, or he's with somebody, or he's napping. You got four hours work and so you know, my priority now is spending time with him, is spending time with my husband. If you cross that line, oh mama bear comes out, and so I think it's just it's priority. And it's like, I don't want my travel
time interrupted, I don't want my family time interrupted. So if I have work time, then do the work. And there's occasions where, say this year creating the book, or in the past year creating the book, that there were things that were on deadline and I needed to make it work. But again it's just communication. Hey, they need this, now, I need an hour off. You go go and do your thing. We do have childcare, we do have family support, even though they live in a separate state. And I
just think, I just keep coming back to communication. It's this is what I need in order to do this, and I'm asking for your help, and you can't do it without the village. And whether that village is family, friends, or paid very happy to pay.
In order to live this life.
And I suppose also, you and your husband sound like you're on the same page.
Sometimes we all Yes, I'm not gonna I'm not going to sugarcate that.
But from the outlook, you know, from looking forward to the future, to the future, yeah, you obviously have the same sort of values when it comes to traveling or living this pleasure life.
Yeah, yeah, he sometimes he's a little bit more. He likes it when we're doing it. I think he doesn't like the thought of it, or the planning of potentially the money spending. But once we're there and sometimes I think I was just saying to my friend yesterday, sometimes it's really hard to have a big conversation at home when we're traveling. Like, we do talk about the future. We do talk about it dreams, we do talk about opportunities.
We were in Mongolia camping and there were beautiful animals out in the nomadic wilderness, and we both realize that we want to have animals, and we kind of want to have a bit of land. And so now our future home that we want to have is going to have a bit of land.
You know.
We came to that vision because we were there and we saw it together. And so sometimes if you need to have a tough conversation, Yes you can't go to Mongolia every day, but we go out for a walk, or we go and have a coffee date, we try a new restaurant, so that we can have those dreaming, planning, future discussions. Because when you're in the house, you just you get stuck in the data.
That's a really valuable point because when you're in the weeds of daily life, you don't have those deep conversations. But when you're sitting on a plane in Mongolia, yeah, like a plane.
As in an ol plane.
And plane not a plane, then you can have these and be more vulnerable. There's a sense of vulnerability I think that comes with traveling as well that doesn't surface when you're in at home.
It's the way you're so I host retreats and I feel like the locations do the heavy lifting because when you're homing, you're trying to think about your goals and what you want for your.
Life and what you need.
It's really oh, they need this, and they need that, and the house needs this. It's really hard to get outside of it. When you go to a place like India or Sri Lanka and everything is new and it's like sensory overload.
You're stripped of all that, all.
Those anchors back to day to day life and you are forced into kind of going, well, what actually do I want? And you get to remember, oh, actually, I had a plan, I had a goal, I had a dream, I had something that I wanted to do, and like the main thing that comes from the book and my mission is to live a life you love. And that's a question you can ask yourself every day. Am I
living a life I love? And you know, the answer sometimes for me is no. But then that's like a compass point, right, and I just go, Okay, Well, then what am I not loving? And how can I what can I change about that? It doesn't mean that that's Fixeday, I feel amazing. It's like, well, if I'm not happy with the way my work is, how can I change my business? If I'm not happy with how my health is, well, I need to get some more exercise, I need to eat better. I'm not happy with the time I'm spending
with my son. Great, put the phone down, let's go do something together.
You know.
It's just what does living a life I look love look like? Every day I can ask myself and then realign to that.
Well, I was going to ask you how do we live a pleasure life? But perhaps you've answered the first part of it in that answer that you just gave is asking yourself, am I living the life that I love? And then actioning it? Because often we can ask ourselves but actually actioning it is another hurdle often, so how do we go from you know, having a whiteboard at the beginning of the year, going right, this is the life I love? How am I not living this? Where
can I you know, what can I change? How do you actually go from that whiteboard to living it?
Well? One of the you know, it's something I included in the book was like that reflection piece at the end of each chapter. It's like, go and ask yourself these questions. Journaling is such a powerful thing because you're writing it down, seeing it black and white, you go, oh, like, the answer comes pretty clearly. You sort of see a pattern of what's not good, And that was such a great point. Sometimes it's hard to say. What do you want is a big question? What does living a life
you love look like? I mean, travel for me is pretty you know, it comes to mind, but not everyone has that, and so you go, Okay, what do I not want? And I don't want that? Which then can kind of determine what you do want. And then it's got to be small steps. Like I said, it's not just going to magically change overnight, but you can kind of gravitate towards it. And I think the misconception to people see my life and they're like, oh, it's all
the jet setting, and it's all the big trips. Sometimes like a two nights or three nights away is so much more refreshing and rejuvenating than a ten day holiday. And I just don't want to subscribe to this whole work, work, work, And then we get four weeks away, and then we come back and you do it all again, and you get to yourself to that point of exhaustion to have this fabulous holiday, only to get anxious towards the end because you've got to come back and do it all again.
Like I just think the land of the long weekend is such a place to hang finding ways to bring in self care or things that you love every day and it's just remembering. And for some people the look of my life is like horrendous. And so I'm not saying yeah, to go get on the market.
I want to travel the world and live out of suitcases.
And some you know, to be honest, over this summer break, I haven't wanted to either. I've wanted some time at home. So then it's like, well, what does that look like? It's it's being able to go to the pool whenever I want. It's being able to go for a walk. It's being able to sit in color with my son. It's being able to try that new restaurant that we haven't been to. It's being able to have a quality conversation with my husband, not being ships in the night.
You know, it is actually this always the simpler things, and when you're getting those things right and you're feeling good. I think for a lot of people, especially women, choosing to do those things for yourself. If you can't even do that, how are you going to go and do a ten day trip overseas gallivanting and working from your laptop. You're not, so you've got to do Maybe taking a night away for you is a huge deal. One of my clients, one of the biggest things for her was
leaving her laptop behind. She was running business for ten years. She never not had her laptop. She came on a retreat and that sounds awful, but that's where she was at right And for her, the win was she brought the laptop, but she didn't open it for five days.
Good for her.
And you know, so it's a small thing. Yeah, I think it's and for her. Then that then kind of meant she could do it more. She got that more time.
With their kids. She said the priority was family.
So now she's doing more stuff with the family, she's able to finish at.
Work at that time.
You know, it's kind of a stacking and a domino effect, but it comes with a choice, and it comes with you have to do it from a place of what do I want.
I don't.
I love the time with my husband's son, but I don't do it for them. You do it for me so I can be there with them and then be there for them.
It sounds to me that you're very clear on what brings you joy and what and the importance of play and being very clear about that and then intentional in actually, as I said, before actioning it and doing it.
Yeah, because otherwise we get resentful, we get burnt out, We can't live for others that way, and it just I have gone so I broke my back going too hard. That was a little sign. Okay, by the way, Yeah, I climbed mountain. Since I snowboarded nine months after, I still love snowboarding. I'm totally fine. Yeah.
Great.
Australian healthcare is amazing, no permanent damage. But then a year later, I mean essentially had a breakdown or my mind burnt out because I didn't learn the lesson and I went hard again. And one of the things I talk about the book is like you can kind of bleasure too hard. And I've done that. I've tried to combine too many things in a trip. I've work, work, worked, and then earn all this money and then had weeks away.
I've done that, and I'm saying you don't do that, you know, and self care was the biggest piece that was missing in my younger years, and it's the thing that now my body just won't allow it, you know, just it just tells me.
It's it's like you've got to rest. And that happened for me in November when away my retreat.
Thought i'd come back inspired and rejuvenated, and I came back depleted and exhausted, and it I was forced into rest. And so I just I think I read the signs a lot earlier now. But that also can come from resentment, doing things you don't want to do and living life on somebody else's agenda or terms.
We'll be back after this short break with more from Emma. How do you say no when you are away like to work, I mean and even home, you know, to manage the business and the leisure. How do you implement your boundaries.
I think it's got easier over the years. Like I said, having you know, if it's going to impact my time, it's going to take time away from me, away from my family, away from the thing that I love, then it's a no. When before I did have all the time in the world, so I could say those yes is. But one of the things I say is say no to their needs so you can say yes to yours.
And you know, as a soul trader in freelancer, early in my business, you did feel like that was if I don't take this opportunity, especially media, if you don't take this opportunity, it's never going to come again. It's not true. You know, there are other things and everything's a choice. You know, I've gone on to troop and I've missed a wedding. I've come back early from a troop and then missed out on seeing a new location. We have to make choices. It's always a choice.
So how are you okay with dealing with the missing the wedding or missing the location. How do you? Oh, I just mentally deal with that.
Oh.
I mean, originally I had a chapter in the book called sacrifices, but we changed it to choices because it's a choice, and it's like which one. You know, one year, I did choose not to go to a friend's wedding, and I do have a still that was twelve years ago, and I still sort of pine for that dear friend. But I would have depleted my income. I would have depleted my energy, and at that time I ended up getting a really great client and kind of growing my business.
So I can see it's like that sliding doors moment. I could have kept that pattern up of work, work, work, spend all my money, come back start again. Instead, I chose to like kind of build a bit more foundation, and you know, twelve years later, I'm still doing it.
So now I have a question for you. It's well from me. Yeah, personally, I mean, bleasure sounds amazing and definitely, you know, as you've explained it, I feel like I kind of live some of it. But I'm also I love travel, and often I go away and you know, write stories. But it takes a hell of a lot to actually get away, a lot of stress, a lot of planning, and then when I'm fine, and then also the guilt of leaving, you go, oh, you know, I hope they're going to be okay for the week that
I might. I went to Vietnam earlier this year, when I'm away and nothing's going to happen, and dealing with all that, and then when I'm actually on the plane, I'm like, I am wrecked. Yeah, how can one manage all that?
You got to trust and empower those around you. I mean I talk about the village as well, getting that support. Asking for help. Sometimes people say no or they're not a capacity, but don't stop asking. Keep reaching out. People actually do want to support you and help you. And early on I think I felt like my husband moved, wasn't capable and I had to do a lot of that stuff and it would be stressful in the early days.
And then one time he turned around to me and I was like, I got to get my mum up here. I've got to figure out your parents or someone's got to come and support. He's like, hey, like, you know, I can actually do that, And I went, all right, if you're saying that, and now it's like, if you continue to make all the meals and do all the plans, well,
they're just going to keep accepting that. And again with that client who left our laptop, that was also a big thing going away from the family and the business. But what happened was they stepped up. My husband steps up, my in law step up. You know, the childcare helps out, the friends step up, the community steps up. But if you keep doing it, then they won't. And again, you know, it's all the choice. And I will miss my son when I go away. That's never going to.
Stop the guilt. So I think the other thing that flies into this for me when I go away is just the guilt.
Yeah, and that's an emment, Like it's a feeling in its emotion. How people say you choose it, I still get it, Like I'm not going to say that I don't. But then I know I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be more fulfilled. And unfortunately it's like the anti hero of the martyrs, right, you know, I had come from a long line of martyrs. They're my anti heroes in that. I'm like, I've seen how that plays out. I don't want to live that. I don't want that for my family, I don't want for the
people around me. So yes, I feel a bit guilty sometimes. Yes, the initial going away might be feel like there's a lot to organize, but I know ultimately I went just to it to host an event in Manly, and I thought, why am I doing this? Why am I going to the hotel? Why didn't I just stay with my son and my in laws and just run it for the day. But I walked in through those doors at that hotel and I did the sigh of relief, and I just thought, Oh, because this is for me, and this is so that
I can be the best for my clients Tomorrow. He's having the best time with his grandparents, and what a great thing gift for them. Right My husband gets the time with my son, my in laws get the time, quality time, whereas if I'm around. And it keeps coming to me that you're helping them build relationships, You're helping them build resilience, You're empowering them to choose things for themselves.
And I just think that the better you are in yourself, the better you can be, you know, give from the overflow more full. I used to be like top up your cup. Now it's like no, it's like completely fill the cup. And then all that overflow and love gets to go to everybody else. And you can just see it in my photo, like when I'm traveling, my face lights up, my shoulders drop, my joy comes, my inspiration, my creativity.
That's the person I want to be.
What's your favorite pleasure trip you've been on?
I think look most recently, yeah, most recently. And my publicists do you think it's very funny? I booked a cruise, European cruise and we were going to be like pitching public city for the book one on the cruise.
Oh that's fun. So where was the cruise to.
Italy, Greece and Turkey? And yeah, it was just awesome because you've got the kids club, You've got all your food taken care of, the cleaning's done, you got the gym. My husband went to the gym. So a great morning. My husband went to drop our son at the kids club, he went to the gym. I sat on the balcony in my swimming costume and did three hours of work looking out at the ocean. And that was a beautiful day. And so it was like, okay, cruise ships, the perfect office.
I just had to pay for the Wi Fi plan and awhere we went.
And have you got any good trips planned for this year?
Oh, my goodness, so many.
I'm kind of trying to look at doing a couple of months away. I want to go over to the US. I kind of want to do a bit more work in the US, but I also have a relative there. I want to spend time with base ourselves in Mexico, which is where we got married, and take our son there and kind of lived there for a little bit. And then I want to get to all the countries in Central America because I have a all to visit every country in the world, So sort of like.
Batch, are you far? How's your list going? Are you ticking it off?
Seventy six of seventy six countries I've been to and sixty four out of one hundred and ninety five un recognized, so a few to go.
But I mean, but that's pretty impressive.
Good.
It's a good bite at the cherry.
So yeah, I'd like to try and see if we can experiment with that. It's my son's last year before he goes to school. I'm excited to see how we make it work then, but I kind of want to take the opportunity when we don't have those timeline restrictions to do a few months and to spend time, and it's more cost effective to go over spend a solid chunk of time there, and yeah, kind of see how we make it work.
And live a life of calm.
A calm life on the beaches of Tulhim in Mexico.
It sounds cherry.
Oh gosh, I love that place anyway, Emma, thank you so much for joining.
Us on healthy Thank you for having me.
Old friends. I hope this inspired you to perhaps well set some goals around how you are going to work less and play more this year. If you do want some more advice around pleasure, Emma's new book is called The Art of Pleasure and it is out now. And by the way, just a reminder that Healthy Ish now drops on a Monday and Thursday. And we've wrapped up our big sister podcast, Extra healthy Ish. If you did like this one, tell us you can rate and review
this episode. Subscribe to this podcast. For anything else, head to body andsoul dot com dot Are you follow us on socials? You can DM me at Felicity Harley if you have any ideas for guests, or grab our print edition which is out in your local Sunday paper. Thanks again for listening and stay healthy is