What It Takes to Start—and Leave—a Successful MedTech Company

We are here now with Dr. Smirti Agarwal. And I met her at just an event a while back. And so you have been on my list to have on this podcast of someone I wanted to have on. She has been a successful entrepreneur and has taken a step back from the first company and is launching a new one. But I want to just start all. And the new company

is very helpful for new entrepreneurs. But I want to start at the beginning and have you tell us about your first journey into entrepreneurship and what that was all about. Yeah. So thanks, Mary. It was so exciting to meet you at that networking event and I'm so glad we met. So. Yeah. So I'm Smriti. I started my journey as a grad student. So I was doing my PhD in genetics. I was working on neurodegenerative,

rare neurodegenerative conditions that lead to blindness. So I was understanding both the cause of it, like looking at patients and understanding the cause of these rare diseases. And then also I had the fortune of working on a therapy. So I worked on gene therapy, which is a treatment for these children. And so while I was doing my PhD and I actually had just started my first few weeks at Baylor College of Medicine in Houston, I was asked if I wanted to consider the MD PhD program.

So in that, I said yes, and I will finalize and make this decision after. I have observed surgeries, like I've seen surgeons in action and I've seen the process and what it entails day to day. So I went and shadowed surgeons and really got into it. So I ended up shadowing, shadowing like hundreds of procedures. And I would go to training, like hands on training events, and I would go into surgery for brain surgery, you know, women's health, like

hysterectomy procedures. I would observe a lot of oncology, like cancer procedures, pediatric procedures. And throughout this, I guess, process, what I understood was that the system is flawed. Okay. And why it's flawed. It's like, well, if your surgeon tells you that they're going to do their best, they truly mean it. But is that really the best for you? And that just. That's an interesting debate, I imagine.

Right. And how they learn is it's a skill. And surgeons just like any other skill, they learn by practicing. So when you're practice, practice, practice, practice makes perfect and then you get really good at it. But when you're practicing, you know, overcoming the learning curve on patients, then that leads to compromise and quality of care that the patients don't deserve. But there is no alternative solution to this. Right. Because like I said, it's a skill. So

I understood that problem. I really, like, had deep conversations with surgeons who were very vulnerable with me on this topic. And they explained to me, you know, what this. How this makes them feel, and, like, how this affects their day to day emotionally, you know, psychologically, all of that. And once I understood the problem, I started diving deeper into the solution. So that was the start of my first company. That's fascinating. So say the name again. Lazarus

3D. Lazarus 3D? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So tell us what that is. Yeah. So Lazarus 3D, it's a platform. And what we provide surgeons is the ability to rehearse upcoming cases before they operate. So let's say, you know, Mary had a surgery coming up and your doctor told you it's going to be really complicated. You know, I've not seen one like this before. What we do is we take your scans, so MRIs or CTs, and create replica of you of your organ with its disease and deliver it to

the physician. So your surgeon will get a organ replica that is a copy of your specific anatomy, and it cuts and bleeds, realistically. So what that means is that surgeons can basically do a dry run of your upcoming case before they do it on you. And this gives them basically an unparalleled ability to not just validate their plan, but modify it and perfect it before they do it, before they have the real case.

That is fabulous. And I don't really think I understood what that all was when you were first telling me about it. Oh, yeah, yeah, I can imagine. That's just so. I can see how that would be so helpful to a surgeon to have that and so comforting to patients. Yeah, yeah. And the patients often get to hold it too, like the replica of their kidney or their brain. And it just. I think it boosts confidence and it builds just confidence in the dialogue that you're having with the surgeon. Like, hey,

yeah, you know, we're not just going into this blind. Like, I've really done, you know, the rehearsal, and I am going to be really genuinely providing you the best quality of care. That's awesome. Yeah. So as a. Because we're now at Reno Startup Week, I see you again, and there's lots of entrepreneurs here and there's a lot of tech here also. So much tech. Tell it. Give us some ideas on what was really

helpful in building this. You had, obviously had a great model and there was a need there, so that's probably fundamental, I imagine. Yeah. So I think people start with an idea and then they come up with a solution and then they build a solution and then they try to sell it, right? We did not do that. Okay? We

identified the problem, okay. And we worked alongside our customers who are physicians, surgeons, and these are best in class surgeons to build a product together with them with their input, with their insight, with their feedback. And we iterated on every, you know, advice, every piece of data point that we were generating from their, from, from the collaborations and together built that product, right? And we always kept patients first.

Like that was really like the underlying, you know, principle was patients come first. And we're building this for the patients and we're doing it to empower their surgeons so that they have the best tools to provide the best care. So that's how we built it. And actually right at that, the beginning of it, when I never like exhibited my own company, I never built my own

company. This was my first rodeo. And so we went to a trade show and at this medical conference, we showed up with our table chair or whatever and we'd set it up and it was a 10 by 10 booth. So the surgeons we were working with were telling their friends about it, and their friends were telling their friends about it. And it was just all very organic until a point where a medical device marketing executive came by and said, oh,

can you make this for me? And I was like, oh, you're, you're a medical device company, like, why would you need this? And then they told me that if I could create a bladder for them that had like different, like bladder, so there's polyps which are like cancer, they can be cancerous. So can you create a bladder cancer model for me that I want to, you know, demo my device on? Okay. I asked them, yeah, we could do that. And so I said that. And then I was

like, what are you using today? And he said he was using a pig bladder. Like, literally, like they will go to the butcher shop or somewhere and get like animal parts or another company was using a bell pepper to do the cystoscopy. That's the procedure. That's fascinating, right? And so I was like, can you show me what you're doing? And they literally, they took me to their booth. And now these are like extravagant, you know, multi million dollar booths for these

Fortune Hundred, Fortune 500 companies. So he showed me in this very extravagant booth, lo and behold, the pepper. And he was doing the demo on that pepper with all of the surgeons that walked by. And I was like, this is a joke. And he's like, nope, this is the best we have. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So then I was like, this is it. And we started like at that point, I went to every single exhibitor and I was like, what's your product? What are you doing to do your demos?

And tell me, is that really like serving your needs? Like, are you happy with that? And that just opened up a entire division of the company which was focusing exclusively on medical education and training for new products. When they launch new devices to the market, they should be doing demos on things that are more human right and representation of the human disease than, you know, a bell pepper. I love that. So then you started doing that. Then we started generating revenue

from that. And that revenue actually funded all the other things that we needed to do, like all of the material science, R and D, our patent protection for legal, our regulatory filings, like for the FDA, our hiring of the first employees. All of that was funded or not all, but a chunk of significant chunk of it was funded from revenue with these customers. That's fabulous. Yeah. So where is it at today? What stage is the company at? Yeah, so fast forward 10 years. So it's been 10 years, so

that's okay. Yes. 10 years in the making. And you know, we broke a lot of things and we learned a lot of things in that process, but today it's already on the market. So the patient specific models are FDA cleared. They have billing codes for reimbursement. They are in large health systems across the country. And we also work with pretty much the best medical device companies that are global companies in providing them with demo units. So for, for hands on demo and training purposes.

And their teams are so much happier, I can't imagine. Because it's safer for humans and safer for doctors to not freak out that they're not practicing on a human for the first time, really. But something more human, like to brilliant. They would have done training also on cadavers. So I just wanted to share that. Okay. So, so cadavers are like, you know, people and once they pass away, they want to donate their bodies to science. And so medical schools have these cadavers and you learn anatomy

on that. Right. So you learn like you know, the different organ systems and gross anatomy. Right. But those cadavers don't have diseases. So if you're a brain surgeon trying to like learn how to treat a solid tumor in somebody's brain, you will not get that training from the cadaver because it doesn't have that disease. So this was sort of a big leap forward paradigm shift in how people learn and how people treat patients and all of that. That is amazing. I

love that so much. Thank you for going into so much explanation because I don't think I knew all of that. Cause right now. So you're new to moving back to Reno or moving to Reno? To Reno. To Reno. Okay. Like me to Reno. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So I grew up on the east coast. I went to school in Houston. Then I moved to Oregon to build this company. And we moved to Oregon during COVID. Those were such good years,

weren't they? Yeah. Yeah. So we had a business pivot where we were making, you know, 3D printing PPE supplies, and then we were sourcing supplies and became the largest supplier to the Harris County Health System in Houston. And then when that crisis was sort of marginally averted, we decided to go focus on the core products. So we pivoted back to our core technology, the patient specific models

we were submitting to the FDA at that time. So it gave us that flexibility to actually, you know, move and find our facility. We wanted to be in Oregon or just west coast in general because for many reasons, but we found, we'd found a spot. So now we have a 25,000 square foot facility there. Okay. And it's doing well. So I last year exited. I'm in the process of exiting from my company. Okay. And that was like 10 years of go, go, go, grind and hustle, bustle. Right.

Like, just no breaks. So this time I put the brakes and I took a break. And that was definitely the most stress, anxiety, PTSD inducing. Oh, no. Taking the break was the anxiety producing thing. Yes. At first I was like, yeah, you know, I need to step away. And I wanted to do that for many reasons. But after I did that, I was just like, really miserable. So I talked to mentors, I talked to advisors, I talked to other founders that had, you know, stepped away. And

I just asked them, like, why did you do it? You know, how did you manage that and would you Recommend it? And 100% of them were like, yes, we recommend this. And their advice was to not dive into the next thing until I was really clear on whether I was ready for that next thing, to commit to it. And also just to reset. Your cortisol levels are so high because you've been in that

fight or flight. Yeah. For so long. For a decade. And so they basically advised me that there was going to be a significant reset and there was an identity crisis where you're like, I was the face of the company, I was the founder and my public identity and Persona was tied to the brand that I built. And so everybody's like always asking you like, how's the company doing? And you have that hesitancy to say like, you know, actually I've taken a break.

I've have sort of stepped away momentarily from that. And yeah, so that was last year. And then fast forward into it. I came to this realization that all of the problems that I was dealing with as a first time founder with my first company are real problems that every founder, every entrepreneur deals with. Right. This is not unique to me. Okay. I was not special. Right.

And so how can I help those other founders, those other innovators that are also perhaps stuck in meaningful ways that helps them accelerate their journey without making the 500 mistakes that I made. And so this is leading you into your next thing, this thought? Yes. So this is leading to, you know, we're still at the very early stages of it, but it's my new venture, it's Atlas 360. So Atlas 360, the goal is to go

in and help startups. So I most, most of my background has been med tech and biotech and basically provide executive leadership where they need it most. And so it could be in operations when you don't have processes, you don't have systems in place and you're doing everything yourself. It's exhausting and it can lead to burnout and you don't want it to get there. So how can we get in there and address it before it takes the best

of you from you? And then also when companies, you know, lots of people like build good products or solutions but they don't know how to bring it to the market or they're struggling and they're getting no's, or they're getting rejections and they're so like personally affected by that. Or a fear of success or a fear of failure or a fear of failure. Fear of talking about it, not knowing how to ask for help or not knowing why they should or when they should ask for

help. Yeah, exactly. And can they ask for help? Because it's their company and you know, should. They may not feel comfortable asking for help. Right. And so it's difficult. And it's also difficult to find people that have the exact set of skills that you are looking for. And let's say you find that person but you can't afford them full time. So what do you do then? Right, so that's where I step in and

I come in as a fractional C suite. So I can be your fractional chief operating officer or fractional chief commercial officer or chief strategy officer and basically, you know, get to the grind and help you with whatever your biggest urgency is. Right. Like you're always fighting fires. So having a lending hand in that can be really helpful and especially from somebody that's been there and done

that and they know exactly what you're going through. The other thing that I'm really good at is product positioning. So when you have a product and you want to create a strategy, your go to market strategy and you want to bring in your first customers, paying customers, it can be overwhelming and it can take a long time. So how do we remove the stress from it

or minimize the stress rather? And how do we shrink the timeline to commercialization and to revenue generation, which I think is like most important in any business. Oh, so yeah, so important. So those are. So that's you just laid out so much. So let me ask because this is a lot of stuff and I think it's important. I think there's, I've heard, I've met a lot of people in Reno that are doing fractional

CEO or you know, that kind of. Can you explain to people who have no idea what you're talking about and they want to start a business maybe what that means and why that's beneficial. Yeah. So a fractional CXO, it could be CEO, it could be COO, CCO, doesn't matter. Is a person that has the expertise, ideally from experience building other companies in their past and they bring that expertise and you know, the breadth of what it takes to build a company. You know, you need to know like

really everything. Right. So they bring that experience and expertise to you without you having to hire them full time. So they are sort of like, you can think of it as a consultant, but they're not just a consultant, they're operators. And so they're like helping you build a business. They're in it with you, next to you, you know, doing things, making things happen. So there's benefits to the company. The company doesn't have the overhead of the benefits like that they would have provided

a full time employee. They also don't have the liability of hiring on the full time employee. Right. And it's also like low risk in terms of fit. Like if this individual is not a good fit for many reasons, cultural fit performance, maybe like, you know, whatever they are capable, whatever their expertise are may not be best aligned with what your needs are or maybe you know, you just want to go in different directions, you can go your separate

ways. Right. Much easier. Yeah. So it really is a good start soft spot for companies where they're like, man, I really like need a clone of me today and I wish that clone existed so I could grow my business and like go from my six figures to seven figures or seven figures to eight figures. But I can't hire them full time. Maybe because you're a beta positive but you're not profitable or you just don't want to take on that risk of bringing in a full time C suite. Yeah, that's very, very good.

So how would someone, would they hire you month by month? Is there a certain time frame that you get hired for? Yeah, so I mean that's a good question. I know you're still developing this. Actually like I've never asked this question, so I don't know how it works. So it's a contract and like every other standard consulting contract, it's on specific, whatever terms you negotiate. So it could be, you know, like for this duration or, or it could be milestones. Like I want

you to help us achieve this X milestone. Yeah. And you know, like help us get there. And it's not really about time because time is actually very, it's a vague concept in startups. Like sometimes it's moving so fast where you don't even remember. Like, like, oh, it's, you know, a whole week has gone by and you still feel like, you know, where are we in this? And sometimes it's so slow moving like you're waiting for a customer to find close a deal and you're like, man, like it's been five minutes

and why are we not done with it yet? Right. So yeah, big concept. But I like to be like goals or outcomes, focus. So yeah, that makes sense. Want to structure it and I have been structuring it that way. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So go to market strategies. I know I had even referred a friend to you for a go to market strategy. So what is involved in that? Yeah, so you know your industry, you know what you're building, you know your target customer. Right.

But you don't have a complete like mapped out plan of how you're going to get the product to the market. So you may have an understanding of the need and why the solution is serving that need. But how do you communicate that to your target customers and how do you actually. So essentially in marketing we talk about buyer Persona. So that's part of the go to market strategy is like you're building the buyer Persona, you're building your beachhead customers, your first early

adopters who are going to be your early customers. And they're not going to ask you questions like who else are you working with? Right. Like, they need it and they will use it. They will be your first customer. So how do you make that happen? So all of those components are part of this strategy that allows you to stay focused. And essentially it's like a blueprint for how to get those early paying customers to buy your products. Yeah. And it may involve hiring too. Like, it may involve,

you know, collateral creation, content creation. It may involve hiring a business development expert. It may involve a partnership with a strategic business or entity. It may involve strategy with contracting through the government agencies. So you have to, you know, there's like so many different things. There's so many different things. Yeah. Involved in that initial process.

Yeah, yeah. And I've owned a business and I think I did it all wrong, you know, but it was Covid era and I was just, you know, I was an island unto myself. Way too much so in a very techie ish. Well, you know. Yeah, it was online sales and shipping, which is tech enough for me. You know, logistics, all the logistics stuff was not necessarily my forte. So there's a lot to it. I know there's a lot to it. And

running your own thing. And I know you're giving a talk tonight, which we're going to be at, about using different AI tools. Yep. So tell us what you know on that or what you recommend. Yeah. So when I started my journey, you know, 12 years ago, we didn't have. Or maybe they existed, not that I was aware of at that time. And, you know, nobody was like robustly using it and there was little awareness of it. So fast forward to the last

few years. We've had these tools that really have been so pivotal to making life easier. Like for a founder or an entrepreneur, a creator or a business owner, where, you know, traditionally I would have hired a team. Like I would have hired a agency to do my marketing work or an agency to do X, Y and Z things that I needed done. Like if I wanted to create a product book, I would have brought somebody in to do that. Today, there are tools that can help you get there.

So in as little as 30 seconds, I can get like a first draft of my product deck completed. And yes, it's going to be atrocious. Totally not to your satisfaction or may just be completely off too, but it still really is helpful. And so there are Tools like that, where I have been using those tools and leveraging them to expedite the process. And instead of sitting there and every image with every text box and whatever margins, I don't have to do that. You know, there are tools

that automate that process for you. And then same thing with like basic things like spelling, grammar, even writing an email draft, there are tools that can help you with that. So I don't think you can solely rely on them. And yes, Everybody is using ChatGPT, which I think that's a good place to start. But there are much more sophisticated tools that are like, tailored to the specific needs and they provide tailored output for that specific area of your need. And I think

like. So actually there are more than 70,000 AI tools and apps on the market. Today, which is overwhelming, right? And we know of like ChatGPT, but there's 2000 generative AI tools. Okay. It's a lot, right? And so you can't, I mean, you could just trial and error and like sift through them. But my talk is focused on the ones that are tried and true, the ones that I have worked with. And yes, there are some

tips and tricks, tips and tricks, right. On how to use them and how to optimize and even really like what the intended uses versus how I use it is different in some instances. So I'm going to be sharing that. Okay, you want to talk about

the specific one right now? We're going to do it now. Yeah, sure. So I think a good one would be like, customization for the ChatGPT where you can create your own ChatGPT and it's a prompt engineering, but it can be pretty simple, especially if you have a sort of a outline for how you're going to prompt it. Then it can really help you build a custom GPT that you can rely on for business development or marketing, content creation, whatever. And the other tool is Gamma AI. So Gamma AI.

I have been using it for quite some time. I really like it. It helps create pitch decks, it helps create product decks, it helps create marketing content, like, with ease. Yeah. And I was just talking to you about this because you sent that to me and Erika actually had already heard about this and heard some good things about it. So I, for the talk that I was giving, I put it, I used Gamma and then realized it didn't translate to Keynote, but I didn't know that. So. Yeah, but it did help kind of

give me, made me go, oh, like this is. I think it saved me some hours on that initial to Just kind of put my thoughts. This is the first time I had given the talk that I gave this week. So, you know, creating it from scratch and making sure in your brain you're actually wanting it to be what it is. So that was a helpful tool. So why that one though? Why do you like that one? Why? I like Gamma. So I've used so many other tools. So I've used Gemini, which is integrated with Google

Slides. I've used just ChatGPT. Of course it doesn't like. It gives you ideas and it can create your maybe outline, but it's not going to build a deck for you. Then there is beautiful AI. There are so many. There's Canva AI, there are so many others. I like Gamma because it has different, like, sort of starting points. So you can feed it your entire outline and you can feed it additional, like knowledge and ask it to build a deck from that database or content that you have

provided it. Or you can start with like a blank slate. And it's like, hey, you know, I'm feeling really lost and I am feeling low energy and just, you know, too stressed right now to give it all this intake. So I'm just going to give it like a glimpse of what I want my presentation to be on. Okay, it will start there. And the output, I think it's like,

you know, decent. Right. So I have high standards, but I think that if you prompt it well and of course what you put in is what you get out, but if you prompt it well, it will do a decent job of your first draft. And from there I can iterate and modify it to my liking. Yeah, Which I think that's one of the best things about AI is that you don't have to start with a blank slate. So

sometimes the blank slate is what's most intimidating. But if there's something in front of you that you can go, yes, no, yes, no, edit this, yes, no, yes, no. I think you can just get rolling a so much quicker. Exactly. That's my talk. So it's blank to brilliant. Oh, good. All right. I just landed on that so fast, didn't I? Went from blank to brilliant. It's a really good name too. So I love that. I'm looking forward to seeing it. So tonight that's going to be fun.

So question with chat. So with ChatGPT to get to that. So it's just driven, custom to you. Is that like buying it at the different level and then doing customizations from then or what do you do with. That if you're a solopreneur or you're just starting out, the plus works. So I think that's like the $20 mark. $20 per month, I think. Yeah. And you do have to have the, the paid version of it because it is a custom feature and I think it's, it's a

fantastic tool. So. And it's well worth it. So you, you're still going to be able to do all the regular chat things, which I use it for so many different purposes today, like even organizing my to do list or you can prompt it to put reminders for you in your Google Calendar. So there's those features, but the custom GPT, basically you can prompt it and you can make it be as specific as you would like or you can be a little more generic.

So if you're being specific, you can tell it like, what's your brand? What's your brand identity? You can put your brand book in it. Perhaps it wants to know your mission vision. Like, you know, it wants to know your core values, it wants to know your product like it wants to know your pricing so that it has all this information.

And as you are brainstorming ideas with it or running different proposals through it, you can rely on it because it's going to talk to you as a professional and it's going to. Only you can limit its data source, so you can limit it to the information that you have provided it. So there are all these different, I guess, components of, of the custom GPT tool that optimizes your

productivity, like to the next level. Yeah, I love that. And especially when you're a solo entrepreneur or you're just starting out, there's not a lot of money and you got to pay your bills and fund your business and so, you know, skipping steps that you'll get to later. I know like with our podcast, even we, we are still going to use a graphic designer to do the logo, but we just haven't done it yet. So we did something that's kind of simple. I think it was Canva or something

like. But so we kept it simple until you're ready to do the bigger thing. And that's kind of how you start things sometimes. Yeah. So that's your mvp. So, you know, minimal viable product is a perfect place to start and, you know, leveraging the custom GPT to make it what you need or what you want it to be. It could be your executive assistant, it could be your executive business director, it could be your legal right. I mean, you don't take legal

advice from It. But a good first pass through, you. Know, for just basic ideas before you go to someone who really knows this stuff. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. So this is just. You're just starting this out and do you have kind of. Is there a way for people to find you yet or you're not quite launched it yet? Yeah. So most of my, most of my engagements have been organic. So it's people in my circle that know me. You know, I have a fairly large network so they can find me on LinkedIn.

So just Smriti Agarwal on LinkedIn and connect there. Yeah. But yeah, I'm not like advertising it or really I don't have a website and I don't know if I will need it and I don't want to have a whole pile of clients like, you know, it's a boutique service, so. Right. Yeah. There's a limited thing that you'll do with it. Yeah. How did you find out about Reno Startup Week? And like, I know you're volunteering here and

helping. Yeah, so I found out about Reno Startup Week through one of the speakers who's, you know, I've known Christina for a little while. Yeah, I know Christina. Yes, yes, yes. And we were just talking to her, I was asking her, I was like, hey, can you tell me more about, you know, like the network here for entrepreneurs, innovators? And I just wanted to mingle and like get to know the community and see where I can support people. You know, I'm an advisor and a

mentor to other early stage founders. And so she was telling me that I should come to, you know, Startup Week. And I was like, what is that? And she said, oh, she's a speaker. And I was like, like, what's happening? Like, I was just, what does that mean? And this was a few weeks ago. Yeah. So after she told me about it, I was very excited and also disappointed because I had not had a chance to like, you know, plan it in my schedule and like, you know,

apply to be a speaker or, you know, panelists. And so at that point I reached out to the organizers and I was so glad that there was an opportunity to volunteer. I think that's good. Great opportunity. It's been great for me because I've get, I've gotten to know people, like folks from the government, the Economic Development office here In Nevada, the SBDC, you know, other entrepreneurs, funders. There are VCs here. So it's been really awesome. Yeah,

it's such a good community. I'm so glad you're here. So. Okay. So personally, what brought you to Reno? Like, why did you choose Reno? Yeah. So you know how it is. Like, you know, you've been in the same place for so long and like, when you want to hit that reset button and you're in the same place, like your environment, it's going to impact you and it's like, who are you talking to and what you're doing in your day to day. It's

going to be the same old things. So I wanted to sort of start fresh and hit the reset button. So I looked at options, you know, looked at Washington, California and Nevada. I like Nevada because of its proximity to Lake Tahoe. Tahoe is a good draw. I'm like, I would say a novice skier. Like, I'm on the blues right now, so. Nice. Good for you. Yeah. So I figured, you know, with Mount Rose being so close by and like, it being an affordable city and it being so close to the Bay Area,

why not? So I took a leap of faith and landed in Reno. Yay. Well, I'm so glad you're here and I'm so glad I met you too. So. And I'm looking forward to tonight and ways that I know we're always looking to ways to make things go faster. Something about a podcast, which of course, we're not really doing this to make money, so something about a podcast needing to go be. Be really good, but also to get lots out on socials and interact in a way that's

time is time. At this point, it's not even money, but we gotta make use of the time because we only have so much of it. Yeah. I mean, I know that all the tools help. Yeah, yeah. Other podcasters like the tools that I mentioned, you know, you could become a partner with them. They could be a sponsor for your podcast. Hey, well, there you go. Like, lots of podcasts, take note. Monetize. Yeah, yeah. Like, they'll put in the ad even if you're listening to the Spotify podcast. Like, they'll have

featured brands, right? Yeah. Hey, over time, we'll grow as fast as we can, and we're going to do some of that stuff. So that sounds like a good idea. So thank you so much. Anything in closing that you want to add for this?

Yeah, I mean, it's been good. And I think for anyone that is sitting with the idea in the back of their mind and just anxious or uncertain of, you know, should they do it, should they not do it, they should take a leap of faith and should just go for it and, you know, break things, make mistakes, don't be afraid, ask for help, get advice. You know, go to the people that came before you, like the people that have done it and have had success in their careers and learn from them. Yeah, for sure.

Everybody is more than happy to give back, and everybody is more than happy to pass their knowledge along and just, you know, don't be your own bottleneck. Yeah, that's my advice. I love that. Don't be your own bottleneck. That is excellent advice. Well, thank you so much for coming on today and for just. I'm so glad I caught you. And like I had said, Erika and I set up out here and we have. We have had some scheduled this week and we have more scheduled this week, but

today we're like, let's set up on campus. And as soon as we did, it started getting cloudy and then there was. It was noisy over there. It was noisy inside. And then everyone's kind of clear going to their different things. I think so. But I'm so glad I caught you today because you were on the list. I'm like, for a while, I'm like, I gotta get her on. So. Yay. Thank you to everyone listening so much.