[INTRODUCTION]
[00:00:00] Announcer: At Freedom Healthworks, we are focused on putting medical professionals back in control of their practices, utilizing a structured, tailored approach to business startup and operations, it could make sense for you to work with our professional team to avoid expensive pitfalls, and more importantly, expedite your journey to success. As we all know, time is money. If you're involved in the practice of medicine and desired a practice free of headaches and constraints, reach out for a no obligation, consultative conversation. Call us today at 317-804-1203 or visit freedomhealthworks.com.
[EPISODE]
[00:00:38] Christopher Habig (CH): Welcome to Healthcare Americana, coming to you from the FreedomDoc studios. I am your host, Christopher Habig, CEO and Co-Founder of Freedom Healthworks. This is a podcast for the 99% of people who get care in America. We talk to innovative clinicians, policymakers, patients, caregivers, executives, and advocates who are fed up with the status quo and have a desire to change it. We take you behind the scenes with people across America that are putting patients first and restoring trust in American healthcare.
Before we get started, a quick message from our sponsor, FreedomDoc. Physician burnout is a killer. It is driving our best and brightest out of medicine. The only solution to burnout is to be your own boss. The easiest way to be your own boss is to join the FreedomDoc physician network. FreedomDoc is a unified brand and will fully finance your practice, so you can enjoy a healthier lifestyle, take better care of patients, and spend more time with your family. You focus on patients, FreedomDoc focuses on your business. If you're ready to be your own boss, visit our website, freedomdoc.care to learn more and schedule a consultation with one of our experts. FreedomDoc, accessible concierge healthcare.
Anybody who's been listening to our show, thank you, but we know that I am very big on the patient experience. Now, we talk to people all over the country and over the past few years and patient experience is one of these things that it sounds like a lofty goal and it says, well, people are tired of having a really bad healthcare experience. Every time they pick up the phone to go see a doctor, they got to wait three weeks, or they have more questions and answers whenever they do see a primary care physician, or a specialist, or anything along those lines. We are just totally missing the human element. It's a subject that I'm very passionate about. It's a subject that we install into every single practice that we set up from Freedom Healthworks and FreedomDoc's standpoint.
Today we have a very special guest, as most of our guests are, thankfully. Chuck Rinker, the President, CEO of PRSONAS, a company whose mission is to break down the communications barrier between human engagement and technology. A company very much aligned with my own values from a medical startup point of view and erasing all the roadblocks of accessing great medical care. Chuck, welcome to Healthcare Americana. It is a pleasure to have you.
[0:03:07] Chuck Rinker (CR): I appreciate it, Christopher.
[0:03:09] CH: Now when we talk about patient experience, this is one of the few companies that really hits it head on that I've seen. A lot of people pay just lip service saying, “Oh, yes. Come to our emergency room and the wait is only 20 minutes and this is a great customer experience, is a great patient experience.” Or, “Come to my primary care clinic in this hospital system and we have zero wait times.” But you don't know who the hell you're going to come see. Even if they know your name. To me, again, that's a bad patient experience. You want continuity. We want somebody to walk in and say, “I'm going to be treated as a human being, not just a number, not just a patient really, but as a human being.” What does that mean to you when you say, we're going to break down barriers between engagement and technology and healthcare?
[0:03:56] CR: Great leading question and gets to the heart of what we really are at PRSONAS. PRSONAS is really just means personalities. How do you bring personality to these scalable technologies that we all know have a productivity factor and can help scale a lot of the knowledge base and all we need? What it means to us is really, patients at the heart, and we'll get into later some of the personal journeys with my spouse and myself and our cancer battles.
But what it really means is the same way that when I was engaged as the director with EA Sports, our goal was to get people engaged with the games from a commercial standpoint. We've done tons in retail. We've done tons with big companies like Pepsi and the Seattle Mariners and all. Our whole focus up until this point, let's say, about until about four years ago, was centered around a customer. What makes a customer go to a certain brand?
As you know in the US, we're suffering from massive physician burnout, overload of a lot of the frontline workers. We're looking at all these great technology advances, but very little way of accessing it, and doing all that why we're not trying to not only alienate, but overwhelm our customers, our patients. Customers and patients in my mind are an interoperable word. We're really just taking what we've done for years in the retail and commercial sector and turning it into, if we can engage patient customers for the retail, we should have that same level of accessibility to healthcare. We can get into some of those details around the RIs on physician burnout, different languages, where our characters can speak a 148 languages, we have a patent on sign language, you have members of the deaf community on staff. It's really about all inclusivity. All that wraps into a magic word you just said and that's trust. We have a trust factor in this US, and we'll get into that we do work in clinical trial world as well, and why our characters are designed specifically for approachability and trust.
[0:05:59] CH: I want to go and just say, walk us through really the process of how this works and you've mentioned characters. I want to give everybody a chance to really visualize how a patient interacts with your technology in a healthcare setting. Walk us through. Dumb it down for us, so that we can actually understand mentally what this means and when you say characters and engagement, all that fun stuff, what does that actually mean?
[0:06:24] CR: I apologize. I tackle it myself. I get accused of that all the time is, “Chuck, you do this every day. You just assume everybody does this every day, right?” I won't call it dumbing it down. Let's say, pushing the vision of the experience out there. There's a couple of key use cases. Let's focus in on one that's near and dear to my heart, because I still go to MD Anderson every year and there. Such a huge campus and a warrior in Houston. You get there and it's easy to get overwhelmed. It's easy to go, “Okay, I just need to get to my imaging lab, or I've got a CT scan, or I need to go find the phlebotomy lab for bloodwork.” Whatever you need there, how much is parking, my kid was admitted, I need to find a local hotel. Where do I get an Uber?
There's a immense amount of information that patients need, because the hospitals are always foreign to them. Most people, knock on wood, are lucky enough, they don't have to have that chronic care at a hospital repeatedly. The point is it's a foreign environment. Here's what happens. You walk into a big hospital currently. If you can't get the information you want, you're trying to find patients, you're knocking on the doors, you're literally catching anybody in a scrub running down the hallway going, “Hey, can you tell me where the bathrooms are?”
That scrub could be a surgeon on his way to triple bypass surgery, but you're taking his time. The receptionist are overwhelmed. Some hospitals have volunteer staff. Basically, you're drawing on the frontline workers and taking their valuable time away. You're now maybe not even getting the information you want. “Hey, I don't know where that's at. I just work here. Or I don't know how much parking is. That's not my purview.”
There becomes a big waste of your patient's time, a big waste of your staff time, and quite honestly, a big waste of facilities. Your facilities get easily overwhelmed, because it's not efficient getting people's jobs. Our character comes into play and it's really a concierge. It's a white glove concierge. You walk up to it. We're doing a piece with a UK-based hospital right now and they want five languages. If you don't speak English, you pick the language you want and our avatar, we call them avatars, halfway between and we'll get into this a little bit, but just think of it as a more engageable version of a Disney character.
They are animated characters and there's a reason for that and we'll get into that later. That's a whole discussion in and of itself and a whole R&D and clinical trials are backing this, but what it boils down to is you don't want to talk to a creepy photorealistic human. You don't have time for an average human. If it's just text-based, you can't carry on a natural conversation like you and I are having now. They're just talking to each other. You've got gesture communication. I'm nodding my head, you're nodding your head. That's that insinuated building of trust and empathy from the avatar standpoint.
Our avatars are trained to have empathetic responses and they can respond as a 13-year-old Hispanic girl, or a 65-year-old German grandmother, or look at me, I'm a 57-year-old white guy, so I'm going to be responded there. You can pick your demographics and it becomes a comfortable engagement and it's a conversational engagement.
To bring that forward, hey, you walk in the door, she greets you, welcome to so-and-so hospital and you'll say, “Hey, I'm here for a blood test.” Not looking at the map, finding out where the phlebotomy – you just say, “Hey, I'm here for a blood test.” She's smart enough using AI to go, “Okay, you need to find the phlebotomy lab. Go down to elevator C, go up to the 4th floor, take a tower, and oh, by the way, scan your QR code and take your map with you.” That's a wayfinding type solution.
Another example would be, I just wanted to get a cup of coffee. Well, you know what? We have a restaurant and staff, a coffee shop, or you know what? We don't have a coffee shop and you can get one across the street, here's a Google map to get across the street. Anything you would ask, how much is parking, how long will my procedure last, that database can grow. I'm taking a little more time then, because this is a key, key, key part about patient satisfaction.
Not only when people have phones, you can click on a menu and you've got to hunt through your menu items to find what you want. This is instant. Just ask me a question and I'll give you the information you need. However, if we don't know that information, we can say, “I'm sorry. I don't know that information. You can go to the reception desk, or I can even send a text or an email to the staff and see someone's looking for help and they're not getting it.”
More importantly, we remember. There's not EHR data. We don't know who we're talking to, but it's right and we convert that into a knowledge base. Then we remember what your patients are asking for and then we go back to the patient experience team with the hospital and say, “You know what? We had 48 people that didn't even know how to get their parking ticket validated. You've never given that information.” Now you're getting insights into what people are asking for in a natural conversation, not trying to go through reams and reams of web data and have people try to predict and guess what people want. You know what your patients are feeling. “Oh, I want to file a complaint. I had a bad experience.” “Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. The patient experience liaison office is over here and what's your challenge.”
That amount of insight and getting that feedback and being able to respond in scale is at the heart of the value that we're trying to bring to the table for hospitals. Then the other use cases around clinical trial and well, you can start getting a picture. If I can answer that many questions about the hospital facility, I can answer those some questions about clinical recruitment, or clinical consent type thing.
[0:11:56] CH: To interact with this, it's almost like a Star Wars hologram, right? These are glass panels that you walk up to and then boom, we've got an animated human being up there saying, “Hey, Chris. How can I help you?” Able to adjust real time. You touched upon one of my next questions here, where is it pull from? What kind of information does it pull from? Is it pulling from the internet? We would think like a Google home, or an Alexa device would be. Is this pulling from a knowledge base? You mentioned that we can now add stuff into our own knowledge base to pull from. I think that's a fundamental question for a lot of people is when they hear AI, it's like, well, okay, ChatGPT is pulling from stuff that's two, three-years-old at this point in time. If somebody listens to this episode in the future and it's different, then I apologize. How up to date is the information and where are your sources coming from?
[0:12:48] CR: That's amazingly insightful. Most of my clients don't know to even ask that question, quite honestly, Christopher. The reality is, is we have subscribed to a term that Microsoft use is called active learning. Not necessarily machine learning. There's a big difference. Machine learning is providing unstructured data and allowing the machines to come up with their own conclusions.
Not only is that subject to how quick and how much you can feed that data, but it also is subject to the term, I guess, uses hallucinations. You can slant your data. If you feed it a lot of data about topics ABC and topics ABC are already slanted in the data, your response is going to be slanted. Our knowledge bases are built on the commonalities of, I'll call it standard politeness. Thank you, you're welcome. Okay, no problem. Your response is an empathetic response in tailoring the structure of the data, so that we can answer general purpose questions.
Now, the actual data for the hospital information is come directly from experiences with the patient experience team. Our characters are designed around knowledge of your facility and how your hospital, or if it's a clinical trial, the principal investigator and the clinical trial assistants. We're actually training our systems in real-time based on the client knowledge and expression. We don't want them to have to go through and program AI, so we've created our own little proprietary tool set that combines, let's just call it general purpose interaction with that domain specific knowledge.
That does live in the cloud. The majority of it does and then we download some of the response to the units. That does a couple of things. For one thing is it allows us to scale almost infinitely. It's just software, like everybody knows and you can draw upon a common database. When we make updates based on the patient insights, that information would be retrained and put into the cloud. It becomes a continuous improvement process.
Your patient says, we learn more and more and as things change, it'll adapt to the changing data of the patient experience team, or just call it client data. The only other point I'd put in there is because it's real important in the medical field, the whole EHR stuff, we're very anonymous. What happens is we, of course, don't ask for any personal information. Even the voice signatures, when you speak to our unit, the voice converts it to a text response and that text response goes through our database. We're really not even store for – storing people's physical voices right now either. We're trying to stay away from the privacy concerns as much as possible as well.
[0:15:31] CH: Yeah, probably a good idea in this day and age that, well, I mean, I think I'm pretty sure everybody's name, information, social security and bank account info are out there somewhere. It's just keeping a good eye on it.
[0:15:42] CR: Yeah.
[0:15:44] CH: Keeping a good eye on any of the suspicious charges. Chuck, I'm going to take a quick game break. We're going to hear back from one of our sponsors and then we're going to come back to continue this conversation, because what I think a lot of people will hear this and say, “This sounds great. But how does that relate to me on really the private practice side of things?” I would definitely want to touch upon that once we come back from our break here.
[MESSAGE]
[0:16:08] CH: We're hearing today from Wrenne Financial, the direct model for your financial health. If you're a fan of the direct care model, you understand the value of getting advice from someone that is aligned with your best interests and also, transparent about pricing. Unfortunately, most physicians aren't getting that type of treatment from their financial advisors. Truth is, financial advisors, mostly work in a system that isn't built in-line with their consumers goals. If you're a doctor that wants the money you earn today to work as hard as possible for you, so you can practice medicine on your own terms, it's important to work with advisors that get paid just like you do.
These advisors, like direct care doctors get paid a recurring flat fee based on the ongoing care they provide for your portfolio and it's always transparent. Their reward is the lifetime value of a healthy, happy client and nothing else. There's one firm that does this that at least I know about and focuses exclusively on physicians. That is Wrenne Financial. W-R-E-N-N-E Financial.
To no surprise, they're big advocates of the direct care model, working with some of our clients and multiple other direct care clients. If you're considering a change in your financial advisor using this model and have some questions about how this would play into your personal finances, I recommend you hop on a call with them for some clarity. Go to directcaremoney.com to find out more. Once again, that is directcaremoney.com to find out more. Now back to our regularly scheduled programming here.
[INTERVIEW CONTINUED]
[0:17:37] CH: Once again, I am chatting with Chuck Rinker, the President, CEO of PRSONAS, a company breaking down barriers between technology and human interaction, really in a healthcare setting. Chuck, I say in a healthcare setting, this didn't start in healthcare. Where was the original idea for this conceived? In what industry was it aimed at?
[0:17:58] CR: Initially, the very first client, however, was medical, it was pharmaceutical. It was Biogen. Then we did a piece for Genentech, but it was primarily in a trade show setting. It was meant for a staff augmentation piece. Their challenge was on the pre-launch drug launches, a pre-launch education period to go through with all pharmaceuticals. Some of their high-valued employees were having to do a significant amount of travel for the public education pieces.
We would sit down and take the knowledge base out of the pharmaceutical product offering, the efficacies, what phase of trial they were in and such, and we would teach our characters to be booth ambassadors at trade shows. Like I said, back to your knowledge base, any knowledge base you feed it, they have the inherent ability to scale that at scale. It was really in the trade show business, and in the staff augmentation, which plays into some of the benefits outside.
I know I was bringing up conversations around large hospital facilities. But in the private practice facility itself, just think of it at the core of being a digital workforce. But think of it as more of a staff augmentation. Not staff replacement. There's a big, big, big difference and probably the biggest misunderstanding people get when our system's there. We call it staff augmentation. If you're dependent on the receptionist of your private practice, if you're just looking for – if patients just need some general information about either scheduling availability, or, “What I need to do. You've just told me I'm now diabetic and I want to do some stuff beyond just the standard discharge,” and you want that general information, or what's in the area, covered scalability, general patient advocacy type things is what I would say.
I tell people, we're not trying to take full-time employees off your payroll. But if I could take Dr. Smith, and tell Dr. Smith that I can save him five hours of answering general questions a week, that Dr. Smith, or 10 hours or whatever, it depends on the situation, that five to 10 hours is now information, it's now time that Dr. Smith has to create the high-value human interaction in very specific, granular knowledge that they as healthcare professionals possess that a avatar can't. Think about it as removing the repetitive and mundane from your schedule.
[0:20:22] CH: I hear a lot of doctors complain that, “Well, I'm just a very well-paid data clerk these days. All I do is just enter in codes and enter in information and I never actually get to look my patient in the eye.” This goes along with this trend that we're trying to see of, okay, we overcorrected when we went electronic. We burdened our best and brightest, our most empathetic citizens of our communities, physicians, and even their nursing professionals, we've overburdened them. Now how do we free them up, right?
I think we're just starting to get there, because we’re driving solely as a society, as we're just driving so many people out of healthcare where it's not an attractive career calling anymore. Yeah, you start talking like, look, I'm going to take five hours of this lower-level entry care stuff off of your plate. Again, the reason why most doctors jump into that is because they generally care about their patients and want to make sure they get to the right place.
Not everybody has that empathy. It's really interesting. I love the fact that you're coming from the hospitality angle, too, because that's what we focus on, when we're bringing in new people, new staffing, we want people who have been in the hospitality world because it's easier to teach somebody how to draw blood than it is to be a nice person.
[0:21:40] CR: Very true. Absolutely true. Preaching to the choir.
[0:21:44] CH: Now I asked when we were doing that. Again, break this down. Most of our audience right now are physicians, whether they're at care thinking about it, or individuals. How does this relate to somebody in a solo practice, or in a very small practice who is making customer experience a keystone of the services they provide every single day?
[0:22:04] CR: Yeah, that's a great question, and I'll have to be very confessional that some of the big benefits for AI that you're hearing about are beyond our personality-based AI. When I say we focus on patient versus healthcare professional, there are companies out there and you've probably seen them that try to do dictation services for medical terminology and help them log some of their daily notes and maybe some of their case information being logged with dictation type services. Now, that's actually not our direct angle.
I love the benefit of it and we may eventually get into that side, but we're really more about how do you address your patient population. We're looking at patient-facing experiences more than physician-facing experiences. They are going to be centered around more of those receptionist-type duties, more of the staff augmentation where you go, “Okay, I want to disseminate general information.”
Our system, although primarily is a physical installation on a kiosk, it can be put on other just windows-based computers and such, so you don't need to have, as you were relating to the previous, big, expensive, transparent holographic-looking displays. You can run these on a 22-inch monitor sitting on your desk reception, and I'm –
[0:23:20] CH: I had a, I was at a bowling alley and a robot brought my food to me and –
[0:23:25] CR: Really?
[0:23:26] CH: Had a little face, all this stuff. It's definitely coming.
[0:23:29] CR: That's cute.
[0:23:29] CH: We talk about fast food restaurants and it's all self-service kiosks and there's a lot of change coming our way. I like this idea of this screen floating around and you've got the hologram on it. That's pretty cool from a tour guide standpoint.
[0:23:46] CR: Very cool. Well, I'm going to try to make this 30 seconds or less, because I know I talk fast and I talk long. But you keyed in on something, when I talk about trusted empathy, those are some of those subjective words that everybody talks about. You can trust our tech, but what does that mean? To some people, it means you've got your security protocols and blah, blah, blah. From our standpoint, and I'm going to boast a little, because I had the distinct honor of sitting with a gentleman who's the Vice President of Imagineering for Disney, a guy named Jon Snoddy. Created a bunch of cool stuff. Worked on some of the Star Wars stuff out there. But in any sense, fun, got to talk to.
Before he became a VP of Disney, he was running a gaming company where he was super imposing human faces on gaming type characters. It was one of his many ventures. The reason I bring him up is because we had gone down this path of, “Ooh, I want this to be a human augmentation piece. I want it to be a digital workforce.” We started creating our characters very photo-realistic. What we found out is 70% to 80% of the people went, “Ooh, that's pretty cool.” The other 20% to 30% went, “That's freaking creepy. That's just creepy.”
If you get too close, there's a term called the uncanny valley. I equate it, I call it the horror movie scenario, where if you think it's a human, but my head turns a little too far, or my wrist joint rotates farther than it's supposed to, that becomes creepy. It's almost impossible. You and I, if I say, what makes Christopher Christopher, every little hair, every little cosmetic, unless I can create that to absolute faithfulness, and we're getting pretty good at it, but becomes creepy, or even if I was able to pull it off, like you see some of the Hollywood guys that have 3.5 million dollar budgets to recreate Carrie Fisher and her Star Wars experience from 1989, or whatever it was, even if you could do that, then the perception we're getting from our characters is one of distrust. Oh, well, you're just trying to convince me that's a human. You're trying to pull the wool over minds.
What the Disney VP basically said is, back it off. Back it off. What did Disney do? Disney makes you cry, feel empathy, feel sympathy, feel anger, feel distrust, and he can do it with a skunk, or a deer. I'm not saying, we're running around having skunks greeting your patients, but we have backed off to what we call the Disney, these AI avatar pieces. You realize subconsciously, it's not human, but you also don't look at – you look at it as a sentience behind it.
I'll finish up real quick, and I know I ran over my 30 seconds, but there are several trials out there. One I love to quote that actually compared your delivering information from a medical perspective, and it was about a medical, to an in-descript character, animated character. A character like ours, which is believable, but not photo-realistic. A photo-realistic character and the coup de gras of the human.
What they found is people don't like giving sensitive information to other people. There's a judgmental factor to it. Okay, we're doing a trial right now with RTI. It's an obo trial. It's about opioid-addicted babies. Opioid-addicted mothers who give birth to the babies and what's the impact on the babies. Let's just say, and I hope I don't get myself in political trouble, just calling out the facts of the trial. Let's say, you have a 16-year-old Hispanic female, or 16-year-old black female who is now, for various reasons, addicted to opioids and had a kid. I'm a 57-year-old gray-haired white physician, like I appear here. I'm not a physician, but you know what I'm saying. Then you're asking me sensitive questions about my sexual activities, about my drug use. They’re very not trusting of that population.
Our characters, we would create a 25-year-old Hispanic female to conduct the interview. We would create these culturally sensitive pieces. What this trial showed is that when people can empathize and relate to who they're speaking with and feel there's a certain level of anonymity and non-judgmental premise there, the data is more accurate to the physical data. You get a better data set right off the bat by creating an approachable, empathetic, non-judgmental, culturally accurate personality that I can relate to. That will go back to the self-boast about why we were successful in the gaming industry and why the EA's and the Madden's of the world and a couple other games I worked on have that engagement factor. That's why people play games. They relate to the characters.
[0:28:27] CH: It's fascinating, because we hear it anecdotally that people want doctors that look like them.
[0:28:32] CR: Absolutely.
[0:28:32] CH: That is just like, okay, I get it. That's fine. That doesn't mean that they're better doctors, worse doctors, whatever. They're just, they're more comfortable with the shared experience part of going to see a medical professional. I'm totally sympathetic to it. I'm like, okay. All right, that's fair enough. We'll give the people what they want.
Now, I am thinking when you say that, Facebook and Meta is going the opposite way. They're talking about being more photorealistic, because they came in with the avatar with the big head and the goofy hands. Mark Zuckerberg's out there saying, “Hey, this was a big miss.” Now, we're doing photorealistic, like it's actually Chris and Chuck in this matrix white room talking with one another. We look very much people do. But I heard some interesting stuff falling out of that of, hey, can you imagine how this will revolutionize physical therapy from a virtual standpoint?
Everybody seems to be rushing into, let's try to get virtual and AI to manage that patient-doctor relationship, rather than what you're saying of, let's just make the patient feel more comfortable in order to have a better relationship augmenting, not replacing.
[0:29:42] CR: Yeah, it's a great point. I'd love to be on the stage with Zuckerman. Not only would I get great press out of it, but I think because of my background, I could actually – I'll be a little boastful. I could win this one, because we've gone down that path. We've been doing avatars, even if in the PRSONAS world, since – our first delivery was probably 2007. We actually started in 1999. Of course, I was doing gaming way before that. But we've done photorealistic.
I'm not saying, photorealistic doesn't have its place. If you're trying to recreate, let's say a – think of photorealism in my mind would be a simulation, not an engagement tool. If you think of it as a simulation tool, “Oh, I want to simulate a triage situation, where I'm trying to train an EMT that just showed up on a accident scene and he's got a femur bone sticking four inches out of his skin,” and you need to create that emotional response to see how people respond in that emotional scenario. We've done a lot of military simulation work in a pathway, where we're literally trying to simulate environments for halo jumpers for the air force and stuff.
When you're in a simulation environment, you're trying to recreate a realism, so you're trying to fool the brain. Yes, Zuckerman's right. Yes, photorealism is more believable now. However, when you get too photorealistic, as soon as there's a little niche there, we're not trying to lie to people. We're not trying to convince people that they're talking to a human. We're trying to communicate. I call it human communication, not human replication.
He can try only once. He's got a lot more deep pockets and let's just say, I would say, he has a commercial success to claim he's right over me, but I would be very surprised if that becomes a permanence. We went down that in 2007. We shifted gears about 2013 and we've had much, much better response. The statistics I'll put behind, it was that earlier one. 80% think it's cool and wow, but you’re still creeping out 15% to 20%, maybe 20 to 30% of your customers. Can you afford that in the healthcare? Maybe you can afford it if you're trying to sell a game and you want to have a million users and okay, I got 800,000. But if you're trying to create a trustworthy approachable empathetic personality, it's all about communication, not replication.
[0:32:04] CH: Chuck Rinker, President, CEO of PRSONAS. Chuck, thank you for joining us here on Healthcare Americana. This has been one of the more insightful conversations. Thank you.
[0:32:13] CR: Absolutely. I appreciate your time.
[0:32:15] CH: That's going to do it for this episode of Healthcare Americana. If you haven't yet, be sure to subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast platform. Check us out online at healthcareamericana.com to catch previous episodes. Subscribe to our mailing list and visit our online store. Once again, I am your host, Christopher Habig, thanks for listening.
[OUTRO]
[0:32:34] Announcer: Check out healthcareamericana.com to hear all of our episodes. Visit the shop and learn more about the podcast. Healthcare Americana is produced and managed by Taylor Scott and iPodcastPro.
[00:32:50] Announcer: Healthcare Americana is brought to you by Freedom Healthworks and FreedomDoc. If you've been struggling to get the care you need and the access you want, it's time to join your local FreedomDoc. Visit freedomdoc.care to find the practice location nearest you.
[00:33:06] Announcer: Whether you're a patient's employer or physician, the Free Market Medical Association can facilitate and assist you in your free market healthcare journey. The foundation of our association is built upon three pillars: price, value, and equality with complete transparency in everything we do. Our goal is simple, match willing buyers with willing sellers of valuable healthcare services. Join us and help accelerate the growth of the free market healthcare revolution. For more information on the Free Market Medical Association, visit fmma.org.
[00:33:36] Christopher Habig: Hi, again, everyone. This is Chris. On Healthcare Americana, we're always on the lookout for great stories to tell in the healthcare industry. We'd like to hear yours. Check out healthcareamericana.com, and send us your ideas for episodes or if you'd like to be a guest. Thanks again for listening. Hope you enjoy it.
[END]