[INTRODUCTION]
Announcer
At Freedom Healthworks, we are focused on putting medical professionals back in control of their practices, utilizing a structured, tailored approach to business startup and operations. It could make sense for you to work with our professional team to avoid expensive pitfalls, and more importantly, expedite your journey to success. As we all know, time is money. If you're involved in the practice of medicine and desire to practice free of headaches and constraints, reach out for a no obligation, consultative conversation, call us today at 317-804-1203 or visit FreedomHealthworks.com.
[EPISODE]
Christopher Habig
Welcome to Healthcare Americana, where we delve into the heart of healthcare innovation and share stories from those making a real difference in the industry. I'm Christopher Habig, CEO of Freedom Healthworks, and today we're discussing a topic that impacts millions of American employees and their families, how to build and implement an employer healthcare plan that actually really truly works for employees.
Joining us is the world-famous dynamic Adam Russo, CEO of Phia Group and expert in healthcare cost containment and plan design. Adam, it is a pleasure to welcome you to Healthcare Americana.
Adam Russo
Chris, thank you. This has been on my bucket list, man. I'm excited to be here. And you know, world famous. I mean, you're really trying to get me, you know, to be more, you know, more cocky than I typically am. But it's funny. So as you can tell, I, as you can tell, I am in the basement. I'm in the basement of my house. And, you know, it's funny. People always ask, you know, it's really important that people come back into the office, right? You know, you have camaraderie, you get together, great ideas only happen, can't happen on a team's call or a Zoom's call, you gotta be there. You know, and that's great, but I'm like, I just like to go to the office because it's the only place people actually listen to me, okay? I'm nobody here. You know, no one's getting me coffee, no one's just doing what I say, so it's very nice to hear on a Friday. And I actually have somebody make me feel pretty good about myself today. So thanks, appreciate that.
Christopher Habig
No problem. We're both members of the Free Market Medical Association, an organization bringing together all players across the industry, us from the direct primary care world, you building out employer plans and actually doing, like I said in my introduction, doing the right thing out there. Recently at the 2024 Oklahoma City Conference for FMMA, you were presented with the Free Market Medical Association's Be The Beacon Award. So I just wanted to extend another congratulations out there for being somebody who I consider to be a torchbearer and an example for others to follow.
Adam Russo
Well, thank you. I was very humbled by that. I was not expecting that award at all. And it was funny because, you know, typically, you know, depending on who the speaker is, I may or may not be in the audience. And I was in the audience and I guess they were about to start the award process. And I decided to leave to use the restroom. And three people stopped me and they were like, hey, where are you going? And I said, I'm just going to use the restroom. I'm coming right back. They go, well, you know, hurry up. I'm like, so I knew something was up. But I wasn't sure what it was.
And I was extremely honored. As you know, I was a speaker at the first ever FMMA conference, which is a much smaller audience and a much smaller venue. And it's great to see just how much it has grown and how successful FMMA has been over the past decade.
Christopher Habig
It really is, and from my side, being involved in a much shorter amount of time, but being able to see exponential growth coming through there. Now, you know, for our listeners, the reason why I wanted to put that out there and show that, you know, you've been doing this for a long, long time. A little bit about, you know, background from Phia Group, you know, kind of from what I've seen is whenever I see you talk about this, it is, you know, you guys are talking about benefits, employer benefits, but you're going at it the right way.
You're not going at it and saying how big can I make my commission from insurance companies? It's how do I actually take care of people so that when they have the worst day of their lives? They're not going bankrupt. They're not losing family members. They're not you know in this kind of quagmire purgatory of medical bills and debt and employment and not knowing where to go. Give us a little bit of background into your group your work how you finally landed there. And again, trying to do what's best for your actual clients, the businesses that you work for.
Adam Russo
I appreciate that. And you know, what I'll tell you is this. So Phia has been in existence now for 24 years. Before I get to how it all started really quickly, one of the things that I take the most pride in is that when I when I hear others in the industry talk about our company, it's we actually care. Like, we actually care about the industry. We care about our clients, we care about their employers, and we care about the employees and their families. I always like to say the word family. I hate the word dependent. It's like the worst word, right? I mean, these are people's families that we're talking about, and these are people that work for companies that employ them. So they're important and valuable part of the process here. And too often they're forgotten about.
Especially in a world where there are so many acquisitions and mergers and everything is focused on what the ROI is, what's your profitability, what's your EBITDA and the pressure on a quarterly basis. We've always taken the approach, if you do right by the client, good things will happen. And that's why from a very early stage, we have always been advocates of self-funding. You know, be in a self-funded plan. We are a self-funded employer. And actually caring about the employees and their families, whenever you're designing a benefit plan. The easiest thing to do is look at the bottom line, look at the cost, and not really take the employees or their families into consideration. And unfortunately, many brokers, many vendors, that is the approach they take. It's the number of times that we have seen, you know, a member balance billed, or a member or a family member being put into collections and not understand what their rights and obligations are.
Everyone's patting themselves in the back that they paid a low amount, but are you sending them to a quality facility? Do they have a balance bill? Are they happy with their overall plan? Do you just keep on increasing their out of pocket and deductibles every single year? I mean, it's a very different approach that we take here at Phia. And it started since the day we started this organization, where a major, major part of what we wanted to do was truly take a different viewpoint and a different mission.
And our mission is to ensure that every American has access not only to the lowest price healthcare, but the highest quality care. Because you can get it cheap, but is it good? So the more transparency we see, the more initiatives there are, incentives there are for the employees to care about the cost and quality of the care, the better we will be as an industry.
Christopher Habig
How difficult is it to follow through on that mission? Because those are very lofty words and inspiring as hell. It doesn't sound like an easy thing to do.
Adam Russo
It's not. I mean, there's always pressure, right? Outside pressure in regards to, you know, well, that's going to cost a lot of money. And I always say to me, it's all about renewals. It's all about getting that client to never want to leave you. And what I know is from the administrators and brokers and plans and partners that we work with, we've never lost one because of our performance. People know that, you know, I like to call us sometimes the Rotor-Rooter of the industry, right? Nobody uses Rotor-Rooter to add, another bathroom to their home. You call Roto-Rooter at 3 a on a Friday when, you know, literally you have poop in the basement, right? Water's flooding the house. And you know if you call that number, they're gonna answer the call and they're gonna be there. And that's who we are. And so what we realize is it's one thing to put out fires. The next step is, okay, how do we make sure this does not happen again? What can we do going forward to ensure you have the best possible plan based on the resources you have available for your employees and their family members.
Christopher Habig
Dive into that plan design because all too often I think business owners kind of get strung out and they've got people in there that says you're making process that might not necessarily agree with everything you just said. They either want to protect their job by getting something safe and you know there are certain companies and certain plans that if you have a certain logo on a certain card you're probably not going to get fired, but are you actually doing right by your employees?
So you know from your experience I want you to put on your business owner hat and say you know here's what my clients want. When they come talk to us, here's what they experienced before. This is what we put in and this is how it differs.
Adam Russo
That's a great point you made and a great question. I can tell you, it's always been, you know, am I doing just good enough? Right? Here's the bottom line. I am not a broker, I am an employer. We have a self-funded plan for our employees and their families. But I also represent millions of lives in the same exact scenario. So what we typically see is, you'll never get fired as a broka. As a broker…you like that Boston accent there? You never get fired as a broker. If you're using one of the national carriers, right? Let's just be honest, right? You put someone on a national carrier plan that five million other people are also on, it's hard to lose your job when you're just doing the status quo. It's much harder and much riskier, but the benefits are much better if you're willing to take a chance and say, you know what, is there a better way to do this rather than just every single year, I'm increasing the premium, I'm increasing the deductibles, and I'm increasing copay, and or I'm reducing benefits. That is not sustainable. And we have seen that across the board.
So that's why the FMMA, that's why so many of the innovative products that are out there that you only could do in a self-funded environment are so important. And what I've noticed is, at least in the industry at large, whereas 10 years ago, most of my conversations with brokers and consultants would be, you know, self-funding 101. Here's what self-funding is. Here's the difference between a TPA and an ASO. Here's why looking at your claims data, this one is the shocker, you know, here's why looking at your claims data is important to tell you what's gonna happen in the future. Those conversations are much, are much rarer now.
People now have advanced to another level where they understand the differences and now are looking to, okay, let's take that next step. But I always tell people, you know, this is not a quick process. We're talking about a five-year plan to truly go from self-funding 101 to being, you know, at the PhD level of self-funding where my plan currently sits.
Christopher Habig
Diving into that because now you got me curious…I would actually like to hear what your pitch is for that self-funding one-on-one because I still think the education gap is massive. We see it from our side when you know there's certain audiences where I'll say the words direct primary care even concierge care and people look at me like what are you talking about? You're speaking a different language completely. So I do want to dive into that self-funded plan standpoint because I think there's a lot of misconceptions out there over specifically how big does a company need to be to actually self-fund and you know before that question - what does it actually mean to be a self-funded company what can I do with that?
Adam Russo
Great points. In regards to self-funding in general, you know, what does it mean to be self-funded? That's a tricky question because, you know, am I truly self-funded if I have 300 employees and my stop-loss specific deductible is $5,000, right? So I'm paying the claims of the $5,000, then I have fully insured product above it. So it's a moving target in regards to what self-funding is. But what I would say is self-funding, in my opinion, is when a plan is actually empowered. When a plan can actually make changes without just complaining about things.
Where you can literally say, you know, I want to have direct primary care on my plan. Or I want to do a direct contract. Or how much are we spending on, you know, hospital care? You know, and what hospitals are charging what? I want to see quality metrics. Any of those types of questions where you can actually get an answer and put things in motion, you're truly self-funded as an employer.
If you can't do those things, if you don't have access to your claims data, or if you don't know if this hospital or that hospital is better for a particular procedure, then you're self-funded, probably isn't really self-funding. You know, it's very limited. So that's how I would describe it. It's less about, you know, the demographics of the plan. It's more about if you actually want to do something and control your healthcare costs or make that spend better or make the quality of care better. If you actually have some control over that, then I would define that as being self-advanced.
Christopher Habig
Now I'm curious and I appreciate the kind of diving into that and kind of drawing as black and white of a line as you possibly can there. What size organizations are you seeing have been successful at creating these self-funded plans?
Adam Russo
So it's funny, so a lot of times back in the day when nobody knew who I was, especially the brokerage world, I would ask people to raise their hands and tell me, what is the perfect size to be a self-funded employer? And you get the answers and the answers you get, you literally know what type of brokerage firm they came from, right? You'll have somebody say, a thousand, thousand employees. I'm like, okay, well the average self-funded plan with the third-party administrator, probably has about 250 employee lives, just to give you an example.
And I never forget the one time I had a gentleman in the back of a room say, one million lives, a million. And I go, how many companies even have a million employees nowadays, right? But then you'll hear people say, 50, 20. And I always say, well, none of those answers are correct. It really comes down to the risk factors and the demographics of a plan.
Let me give you an example. If I have a plan with 30 people on it and everyone is every person on the plan, you know, works for a yoga studio. They're all vegans. Nobody drinks. Nobody eats meat. You know, they meditate six hours a day and they all get pre-screened for cancer, you know, and every other disease every six months. It’s probably a good risk to take in a self-funding space. Whereas a thousand lives of…and I'm just saying this because my stepdad was a trucker, a union trucker, so I'm talking about him. I'm not talking about any other truckers out there. But a thousand union member truckers who 80% are obese, 75% smoke, 100% drink, and their idea of a healthy meal is a salad at Wendy's once a week. What risk is better to be a self-funded employer?
It's less about the size. It's more about what the behavior is of the population. And the only way you can know that, and here's the catch, is if you actually have access to your claims data and see what are my people doing? You know, where are they going? Are they actually going to their doctor proactively to see if they have any issues? Or do they wait because their deductible and copay is so high, they literally wait until they have to go to an emergency room to get treatment. All that is a very long answer to a very pointed question, but I don't know what the perfect size plan is. It depends on all the factors that I just addressed.
Christopher Habig
I love the example here and I think I had to mute my microphone because I started laughing so hard about that, but I see it, right? You paint that through. And risk just means a bunch of different things to a bunch of different people. And I think that's what we've forgotten, especially in the health insurance world, is that so many plans turn out to be prepaid healthcare that don't even address the risk on the back end of it. And we've become kind of complicit. We've become complacent, I guess is the right word, with that without even looking at what's going on here because this conversation is just painful for most employers once a year for about half of a day meeting. And then they say, great, give me whatever plan is only going to raise my rates by 12%, not 17% this next period.
It's just like, how did we get to that point, Adam? It's wild that smart business owners would make decisions with dollars and lives based off of whichever one is going to raise my rates next year to the lowest or the least amount.
Adam Russo
We've been brainwashed. If you look at every other thing you do in life, you look at every other aspect of a business, okay? If I'm a CFO of a company, what are you doing? You're looking at every expense. What can I do about this expense? Is there a different vendor we can utilize to lower the cost? Can we be more efficient? Salaries.
Think about what people have to do at a company. Let's say I'm the employee, okay? And let's just say I make 100,000. For me to get a 5% raise, that's $5,000 more. Self-assessments, peer reviews, annual review, training, meeting with your boss, you know, kissing up to your boss. All these things, certifications, right? To get $5,000 more this year. Yet that same employee could go out and get a knee replacement that cost $300,000 from a bad doctor who has really low ratings from a quality standpoint at a bad facility without a second opinion, without looking at are there any other options available, maybe they could have gotten that surgery done for $30,000, yet no one blinks. Sure, at the end of the day, sure, it's coming from a different bucket of money, but it's still an expense for the employer. Both of them are expenses.
So why do we spend so much time looking at every other expense when it comes to an employer's costs, but when it comes to health benefits, can we just limit it to 10% growth this year? Like no one's asking those questions. No one's peeking in. And like you said, people are spending three to four hours an entire year, maybe one hour with their employees going over their benefits, yet, you know, HIPAA training is every other week, all year long.
If people just treated their health benefit expense and experience no different than every other expense, every other process, every other thing they do with their company that makes them successful, they can have their health benefit process be successful as well. And that just doesn't happen.
We look at our claims data every single week for anomalies, for issues. But here's the thing. It's not just employers that have been brainwashed, it's also brokers and consultants. Here's an example. Let's say you know, knock on wood, that you have a hemophiliac on your plan. You know you have one, right? So every year, a million dollars plus. Do you know what the first question is that I'll get, or one of our consultants at Phia will get from a broker, et cetera? It's, how do I not cover this?
Instead of being the first question, can we do right by this employee, still give him the best possible care because we care about this employee, at a lower price? And that's what makes me sad many times. The first thing is, how do we not cover this? I'm like, what if that was your family? Would that be the first thing you say is, how do I not cover this? No, it's how do I get the best quality care at the lowest possible price? So that we're not lasered the next year. We can keep offering quality benefits. And that's, you know, these are, to me, the solutions are easy. It's a willingness to look at those solutions that just doesn't happen enough.
Christopher Habig
I keep going back to what you said about we've been brainwashed as really a society and how many people get out of college and they say, I need to go get a job and I need a job with benefits. They don't know what the hell that means. They have no idea what that means. But it's ingrained from your previous generations that you got to go out and get benefits. Well, great. How do you define benefits? And I think that definition is changing. But in the example you're using right there, and I believe that there's real examples and there's beyond that, right? It's almost like we just have to check the box and then once actual problems occur, we treat it like a throwaway.
Well, that person's going to be expendable because we have to provide this health benefit over here or else this is conception or there's this kind of mindset that if I don't do this, my employees are going to rally with pitchforks and torches and come after me because I changed a benefit.
You know, in your experience and once again for our audience, we're talking with Adam Russo, CEO of Phia Group. In your experience, Adam, when you are switching plans from something that is kind of a fossil in the terms of this conversation into something that is actually valued, what is the response from the employees? What’re the rank and file say about this when your team gets in front of them and starts explaining what you're wanting to do with this new plan compared to what they had previously?
Adam Russo
So, it's a really simple mindset here. I will hang out with my buddies, let's say on a Friday night, Saturday night, and they'll complain that, you know, my daughter got a fractured foot, and I had to go to, you know, the orthopedic facility, and they fitted a boot on my daughter. And because I have a high deductible plan, I had to pay that out of pocket, you know, right then and there.
And I'll say, so what happened? And they're like, well, we got fitted and they wanted to charge $180 for the boot. And I said, did you go online at all and see how much that boot costs right now on Amazon? And it'll be delivered to your house this afternoon? Or there's a CVS or a Walgreens or a Target right next door that sells a similar or same boot for 50 bucks? So instead of paying out of pocket 180, you're paying 50 bucks or 60 bucks on Amazon. Oh wow, I could do that? I'm like, what do you mean? Of course you could do that. Again, it goes back to this idea of not understand…
Think about this. In my home, we purchase a lot of things on Amazon. I have four kids, age 11, 10, and my twins are 8. So we're buying all sorts of stuff on Amazon, right? Obviously, I have Amazon Prime. So if you think about it, people spend more time on Amazon or on a website, looking at their purchase of socks. Socks! What's the quality? What's the ranking? What's the review say? How much does it cost? When can I get it delivered by? What other options are there? People spend more time analyzing what socks to buy than the pediatrician that's actually taking care of their kids when they're sick. It's a fact.
And people will say, well, why'd you pick that hospital to have your baby? My cousin went there. Why'd you pick that facility to have your surgery? Well, that's where my HR department said I should go. And I go, how did you buy your car? Your friend just told you to buy that car? Somebody at work said, hey, it's a good car. No, you went online. You did research. You did car facts on a used car, whatever it might be. So this idea of being a consumer of everything else that you do, but when it comes to healthcare, we just throw all that out of the window. That's what drives me crazy. That's what you need to do.
And it's one thing to just tell brokers this, it's another thing to talk about these things with administrators. Who's talking to the employees about this? I think it's important that every employer has a mandatory workshop. Once a year, twice a year where they're telling their employees, hey, FYI, many of you still go to an emergency room when you could go to urgent care, as an example. These are the five urgent cares in our area. Here are their addresses. Here's what it's gonna cost. By the way, there's no out of pocket to you. Here's what it costs us to do that. People just don't know. People have no idea. And I think that's where you gotta start, is instead of this once a year, one hour thing, it's get your employees and their family members to be empowered to care about the cost and quality of care. That is absolutely vital.
And I think the example of the cast or the brace or anything else that you purchase when it comes to healthcare spend, you know, wouldn't people, and you brought up a good point, you said, how do you get employees excited? I have never been to an annual enrollment meeting where people smiled. Ever. Ever!
Yet when we do our healthcare workshops, people are like, wow, I could get access to, no, the quality of a doctor, the quality of a facility. I could get incentivized. I could have no copay, lower deductibles, no deductibles. If I do these things, and people are smiling and they're excited and they feel knowledgeable. That's what we need to do as successful consultants and specialists that serve in this market.
Christopher Habig
There's an old saying in direct primary care world is when you go to a conference, how do you know all the DPC doctors in the room? They're the ones smiling. I guess it rings true for the employees that are working with the Phia Group. How do you know which ones are working with Phia Group? They're the only ones smiling out there.
Adam Russo
They’re the ones that are happy.
Christopher Habig
So I love it. I love it. And you're advocating for urgent care over ER and just put in there for future use. Just go out and find a DPC doctor in an area instead and then you don't have to worry about any of that kind of crap. So just put that in there Adam for future reference there.
Adam Russo
Hey, I want to bring up DPC. I want to bring up DPC for a second. We pay for, fully, DPC access to every employee and every family member on the plan. We pay for it. Fully. My kids, my wife, are all on DPC. And trust me, that wasn't a quick sell, right? My wife's like, I got my own doctor. The kids have their pediatrician. And when they realize what DPC is, it's not concierge. You know, it's not MDVIP.
You know, in those situations, what that does is gives you access, priority access to a doctor, but you still have medical bills. DPC, you pay a flat monthly fee every month, and that doctor will see you anytime you need to be seen. There's no waiting rooms. Why? Because no one's waiting. You get an appointment that day, right now on my phone. Boom. I could go see Dr. Tremblay in Action Medicine.
And the funny part is, any people assume like, you gotta be rich, or you gotta be, you know, at least middle class to afford DPC. DPC was built for the blue-collar employee. That's what it's built for. And the beautiful part of it is, your DPC doctor isn't spending six minutes with you. You got a two hour consult where they know everything about what you're doing, how you eat, what you do for fun, what you do after work, what you do for work.
And the beautiful part of it is when they refer you out for an MRI, for blood work, if they even need to send you somewhere for blood work, they understand you have deductibles or not. Is it a branded drug or generic? And they care about those things. So they're telling you what your options are to do everything possible to keep your expenses down, and at the same time, offering quality care.
You know, it's so funny, one of the best things that I've seen with Dr. Tremblay and other DPC doctors that we utilize across the country for our employees across the country, is they truly are not just offering this amazing care, because primary care, as you know, is dying. No one wants to be a primary care doc, because you got 2,000 patients, you got three minutes each with them, and again, who's happy after their seven-minute primary care visit? Like, wow, that was an amazing seven minutes. No. After your first DPC visit, ask the people who had their first visit what their reaction is when they walk out and they all say the same thing. I've never experienced medicine like this. I've never experienced a doctor visit like this. And that's how it grows. So, I'm a massive proponent of it nationwide.
I believe employers should pay for it. Why? Guess what? Your employee isn't taking a day off from work to make an appointment to see their doctor. That's another big thing. So less people coming into the office sick, less people taking time off from work to make an appointment, and just a better overall experience for your employees, their family members, and therefore they're appreciative of their employer, which is a big piece.
Christopher Habig
Huge piece, huge piece. And I appreciate that, because I think you put it succinctly that there are a lot of doctors that struggle to put that business model into terms that you just did so very simply. And I agree that it's going to take a lot of these group plans and employers to help this model proliferate and show doctors that primary care is viable. It can actually build a very healthy work-life balance. And it's really kind of a lifestyle. It's a healthy lifestyle for physicians.
Last question for you. I know we focused a lot on self-funding and employers. What have you seen from the public sector in plan design, innovation there? Is there room for state governments who are tired of the old song and dance? Is there room for state governments to get involved in innovative plan design using the free-market principles that you've been espousing?
Adam Russo
So as you can imagine, we represent tens of millions of lives. Many are municipalities, county plans, firefighters, school teachers, et cetera. It's a longer pull. It's a longer process. But there's no question right now, we have many of our clients that are using many of these proactive principles and processes, our state plans, our school teachers, districts with school teachers, that are now taking advantage of these same exact opportunities, because why? It's still money being spent. It's what can we do in the state of California for school teachers? Because right now we can't keep up with the rising costs. So what can we do?
And there's always a tipping point where a broker or an employer or a public entity says, all right, there's always so much we can keep increasing. There's always so much we can keep passing off to our public works employees. Is there anything else out there?
So, yes, we have seen this grow tremendously in the public sector. It's a longer period of time, as you can imagine. But another piece of it, from a public and state entity perspective, is there is so much political pressure by the lobbyists, by the insurance carriers not to change, to keep the status quo. We have seen situations where, you know, a large carrier was charging, you know, this much. 10 times what they would be able to do if they actually were proactive in many of these situations. And all of a sudden, when they're threatened that they're going to lose the business, wow, we're able to knock these premiums down by 50% at a loss just to keep that business. And unfortunately, I think that in many situations, that's what happens, right? Entities like mine might be used just to get a lower rate because again, it's safer to stay in that world. It's easier.
Doing this in a public or private circumstance is not easy. If this was easy, everyone would do it. But once you do the process and once you see the results, it becomes contagious. You know, my kid's school, where they go to school, it's a small school, a Montessori school, literally a mile, not even a mile from my house here in Scituate, Massachusetts. And I saw their health plan for the employees and I'm like, this is the worst thing I've ever seen. I'm like, so I basically worked with the heads of the school and took over the plan. I became the plan sponsor. And last year we initiated direct primary care for the 35 teachers and their families. And we had the doctor come in and talk to the teachers. They thought the guy was lying. They're like, what do you mean? We can just see you.
He's like, well, I only have 500 patients. What? So you're telling me I could text you and you'll text me right back. He's like, yeah. They just didn't believe it. Go flash forward a year. I went back and did the employee workshop last week and everyone's like, this is the greatest thing I've ever seen. People, their friends and families who are paying the $75, $80 a month on their own just to have the same experience. So it's growing, it's spreading. FMMA is a great example of going from 50 people to 600, 700 in one decade. And I'm very bullish about the future of our industry and of the health insurance benefits and opportunities going forward.
Christopher Habig
Adam Russo, CEO Phia Group. Adam, it was an absolute pleasure talking with you. Thanks for joining us here on Healthcare Americana.
Adam Russo
Hey Chris, I just want to say thanks again for the opportunity. I'm truly humbled. This is a great platform and I just want to say sorry for moving around so much. It's that Sicilian in me. I just don't know how to stay still, so I apologize for that.
Christopher Habig
It is a great reminder to all of our listeners that we do have a YouTube channel so you can go out and check out Adam and all his energy. One of the most dynamic people and speakers I've ever encountered in my entire life.
But once again, thanks for tuning in to Healthcare Americana. We hope today's episode has provided you with the actionable insights because we need everybody going out there and actually creating the change that they seek in creating an effective healthcare plan for employees, public, private, and everybody involved there and families, like Adam said.
So, until next time, I'm Christopher Habig. Thanks for listening.
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Check out healthcareamericana.com to hear all of our episodes. Visit the shop and learn more about the podcast. Healthcare Americana is produced and managed by Taylor Scott and iPodcastPro.
FreedomDoc
Healthcare Americana is brought to you by Freedom Healthworks and FreedomDoc. If you've been struggling to get the care you need and the access you want, it's time to join your local FreedomDoc. Visit freedomdoc.care to find the practice location nearest you.
Free Market Medical Association
Whether you're a patient's employer or physician, the Free Market Medical Association can facilitate and assist you in your free-market healthcare journey. The foundation of our association is built upon three pillars: price, value, and equality with complete transparency in everything we do. Our goal is simple, match willing buyers with willing sellers of valuable healthcare services. Join us and help accelerate the growth of the free market healthcare revolution. For more information on the Free Market Medical Association, visit fmma.org.
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