We'd like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which this podcast was produced, the Galligle people of the Urination. We pay our respects to Elder's past and present.
It's December fifth, twenty twenty three. Some of Australia's biggest names have gathered at Sydney's Bondi Pavilion for GQ's Man of the Year Awards. It's a night that celebrates how Australia's best and brightest have helped shape the world for the better. The first award for the night is Model of the Year. The crowd rars as James Parr takes to the stage to accept the award. It's a night James never thought possible following the amputation of his leg
six years earlier. For James, it's a win that means more than just being Model of the Year. It represents how he reframed public perception of disability. I'm Att Middleton and this is headgame on today's episode, James Parr and how he's now turning perception of disability and the fashion industry upside down. Now you've got quite a story. Just take us back to you know, your childhood take us back to where it all started, where you grew up and how you grew up and what life was like as a kid.
Well, I grew up in Deniliquin. Do you know what that is? No, it's rural New South Wales. So I grew up there my parents and my family. We grew up on a farm until I was around seven, and so I had four older siblings. I was the oldest one, only one sorry between my two parents. And yeah, my mum was diagnosed with cancer I think around six to seven, and then we ended up moving in down and selling that and then my mum died when I was eight.
So your mum was diagnosed with cancer at the age of six and within two years she'd passed away. Were you was there any treatment any What was it like back then and how involved were you or you quite sheltered from from that moment.
Yeah, I was sort of sheltered from it, so I didn't actually realize what was happening at the time. She did go treatment, undergo treatment, but I think it was sort of past that that she sort of just stopped the stop the treatment became a bit too hard, and yeah, I remember the night like she died even then, I still had no idea actually what was going on. And I guess being eight, you sort of don't realize. And I guess it was sort of like a slow release as well.
Because this back from what you know now and what you remember, right, Yeah, got yea.
And even in the time, like I had no idea it. Within a couple of years later that sort of really hit because I was seeing her lesson mass so when she did die, it sort of didn't really feel too indifferent. But then, yeah, I lived with my dad from then.
And did you attend your mom's funeral?
Yeah? Okay?
And what was going through your mind? Was it was a confusion? Was it frustration? Was it?
You know?
Because I know we're so adaptable. I lost my father when I was five years old, and a new man came into our life, and I almost feel guilty that that I, you know, attached on to him so quick and sort of felt like I forgot about my father that, But I think it's it's a defense mechanism. How did you how how were you feeling and what was going through your head that are that such a young age or can't you really remember?
Yeah? Look, to be honest, I actually can't really remember. I do remember I chose her gravestone because there was like a couple of different designs, and to be honest, I was a favorite kid, and I knew.
That always favorite.
So I would play into it. Yeah, and it says it on the gravestone. I think it says like especially James or something. And even my siblings tried to like argue with me that I wasn't the favorite. My mate is on her actual grave.
Yeah, yeah, you.
Need to look too deep, like is there? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, And so yeah, I don't really remember too much of the whole sort of funeral experience. I remember a little bits and pieces, but regards to how I was feeling, yeah, I'm not really sure. Actually, I think it was just like going with the flow, because yeah, I wasn't aware of what any of those things meant.
Yeah, you sort of do, you know, as especially as kids were so adaptable, were so muldable. How was your relationship with your father.
Now and then then? It wasn't too bad, but I did end up like running away. I left my dad around twelve thirteen.
So you were when your mom passed you we were at home with your father, was home with my dad a normal school routine, and then we moved.
He got a new girlfriend, and then he had another two kids. Okay, gotcha, Yeah, and then yeah, I reckon. They broke up and maybe a year later I was still living with him and he had a new wife, and then yeah, I just left. I reckon. I was like twelve thirteen.
Yeah, and did that manifest because of your dad, you know, having a new partner, having more children. How did you get on with your step siblings?
Yeah, yeah, so my younger ones. Once they broke up, we didn't have any contact with them, so I didn't actually speak to them until like fourteen years later. There was no contact, so and then their mom died, so then it was just sort of like a.
Sort of like a domino.
Yeah, and then they went and lived with their auntie and stuff like that. And yeah, I think I was just like constantly living in survival mode and didn't feel safe where I was and there was a lot going on, and I think it sort of took me like a month that I sat on the idea of like leaving and running away, somebody running away, but it sort of was and then you have one day I was just like I'm leaving and I just left, So, yeah.
What was what was your mindset? Did you feel alone? Did you feel afraid? Did you feel quite isolated? What was what was going for you?
I think.
There's a confusion of all those emotions and just.
Knowing that I wasn't where I wanted to be, I wasn't doing what I wanted to do. Is I felt like I couldn't do anything?
What did you want to do? Where did you want to be or didn't you know?
Well? I didn't know. I sort of had ideas I wanted to be a teacher, and I wanted to do this. And then in that I think if I hadn't have left, I think my path would have led me somewhere else. So I think it was also knowing that if I wanted to go and pursue those things and basically do whatever the hell I wanted to do, I knew I had to leave. So I think that was like the decision making process in that. And I have not spoken to my dad since.
Oh wow, So at the moment you left the house, So when you say you ran away, you didn't know what you Yeah, you were gone, gone, gone for Where did you go? What did you do? Who did you seek? What?
How picked me up?
Did you know in your head that once you left that was going to be it? Or did you think I'm just going to do this just to you.
Know, I think deep down on you but also the unknown you guys, you never actually know what's going to happen when you do something you've never done before. Yeah, and yeah, like I called my nan on Monday one hundred reverts and I was like, I think I'm going to leave now, so like, can you come pick me up? And I'll just like go home and get some stuff. She lived an hour away, so yeah, I just went did that, grab some stuff and then called her back and then just went way for her.
Did you have time to miss your mom? And do you think that's why you rang your nan?
I don't think I had time to miss my mum or to sort of even still process. I think I was just like living in survival mode that I was just really getting by each day, and I think the processing my mom and grieving her and even missing her came later. I think I just called my nan because I didn't really have anywhere else to sort of go, and I used you to come and get me. But yeah, I think that came later, when around maybe eighteen, that all of that stuff sort of caught up with me.
It does. It's the same with myself. When I was five, my father passed away. How was it like living with your nan? Did you make your NaN's life easy? Well?
I went to live with my auntie, like my dad's sister, and look not very dissimilar to living with my dad in different ways, So I guess same sort of thing, sort of just like survival mode and sort of get but in that I was in a better place than I was living with my dad, and so I think I lived with them until about eighteen, and then as soon as I finished school, I got a traineeship at
the special school where I was living. And yeah, so I did that trainee ship for a year, and then I started teaching online and worked in a special school I think for another three years, and then I went to mainstream and did two years there, and then I was a welfare officer in a primary school for one more year.
Wow, So you know this, your your childhood is without you realizing, it's breeding resilience, it's breeding strength. You know you're you know you're still here, so you're you're getting stronger, you're learning to live with not only yourself, but you're learning to live with other people. You've had to grow up super quick. And you said that with at the age of eighteen, it started, you know, you started to realize and missing your mom and going through that process
of grieving. When did that initially hit you do? Was there a moment that hit you where someone says something or was it just it just like trickle fed into I.
Think it's trickle fed because I was the kids that I was working with come from a lot of trauma themselves and had a lot of challenging behaviors, and so looking at the kids and observing them that you know, were affected by traumas or a lot of myself without actually realizing. And then when I studied child and adolescent development, especially in like a trauma lens, I think I just remember I was like, is this play about me?
Yeah? Yeah, wow, I was like, this is me.
So I learned a lot about myself then, and I think that was the time where I really processed everything and was able to like look at it in a different way and also look at the kids in a different way and be able to understand them a lot more, and you know, I think that's where like the passion came from being able to understand the kids and you know, even just understanding their behavior, why they're disruptive, and you know,
there's a lot more to it. And I think in that also read the book The Body that Keeps the Score and the same thing. I think, I read that once a year, and I always pick up on something else I learn about myself. And I think just like studying that and learning those things made me really self aware about how my trauma has affected me. Probably in everyday life.
When did you feel, you know, outside of that survival mode, when did you feel at most sort of peace with yourself? Are you just for I do know what, I'm in a good place.
Here, I think like every day after that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, every day survival motive. Yeah yeah, yeah.
I think it also gave me a big push to sort of like look at my life and figure out what I wanted to do and where I wanted to be and sort of like in a weird way, sort of design a life or like create a life that made me happy and made me fulfilled. And you know, I think a part of that, you know, there's a lot of like intergenerational trauma and those type of things
within my family. So I think even just being able to understand that and figure out how I fit in that and how I fit in that with my family, because like you know, my family is very different and with there's half siblings, they're all everywhere. And yeah, I think just being able to look create a life myself I reckon.
And what did that look like when when you managed to do that or when you you know you're no longer running from from yourself? Ultimately, what did that life look like? And what did you have planned out? And was a roadmap that you had for yourself?
So it sounds like I had all of that, but I didn't. I think it was just being able to actually live in the present for the first time and be able to do what I wanted to do and what was going to make me happy.
Really, could you be yourself?
Could? Yeah?
You felt you felt like there was a sense of normality settling there for sure, And then all this is happening, you find yourself in a good place, do you take forward?
Do you injure yourself when playing cricket? And then you think, you know, you think it's just an injury, and it turns out to be something that ultimately ends up, you know, turning your life back upside down, if you wish to take me back to that moment when you when you realize that, wow, this is a lot more serious than I thought it was.
Yeah. Well it was a cricket bat. I was playing cricket with the with the kids, and so the plastic cricket bat just like brushed the side of my own cool and yeah, I just like fell over and it took me like a whole minute to get out because it like really hurt. You know when you sort of hit your funny bones paralyzes. Yeah, it was sort of like that.
And that was on your ankle, on my ankle, yeah, outside of inside inside the inside of you, with.
Like a little bit of like nerve pain. That was really weird pain. And then I guess that sort of just like alerted me into this pain. And I think like for three weeks I just had this random pain that was like weird.
You didn't think anything of it. You decided what we just had an accident.
I thought maybe the cricket bat like hit something. Yeah, there's nothing I could have done.
Yeah, exactly and there wasn't. It wasn't it just skimmed it right, so it must have. Yeah, yeah, so it wasn't any direct impact or anything. So you're just thinking, do you know what?
I was only like, I was also like big into CrossFit, so I was like training six days a week, so I also thought it was something to do with that, and I didn't pay much attention to it. But yeah, I ended up going to the doctors I think maybe like three weeks after, and she told me how to cast. If I'd ligament, There's nothing I could do, so I
left it and then it just like got worse. And then I got diagnosed with like an ostereoosteroid, which is like a benign tumor in the bone in the same bone in the ankle right, And then I was on a waiting this to have that removed. I was on that waiting this for ten months, and the pain in those ten months, I would have like four to six every four to six hours, I'd have to take one panet or one ibuproven for that pain to stop, because like if it hit it would take like two hours
for it to stop. Would sort of just like numb my whole leg and I wouldn't be able to walk.
So you was just staying on top of it for ten months, Yeah, every day medicating waiting for this operation or for this operation around.
Because I'd go back and You're like, it's getting worse, Like I can barely sleep.
Do you think, oh if I strap it up or we Yeah, I did everything, you've done it, You've done everything you can still wasn't.
Because it was like looking back now I can say it was inside the bone, but back then I was I had no idea because even strapping it would hurt, like touching that side of my ankle, like even just the skin it would kill, like it would paralyze. Even if I put a sock on, like I had to like not touch it.
Because I was that bad.
That's how bad it was. Yeah, And then after ten months there was still no movement on the list. So I just like chose to go private and pay I think it was like five thousand dollars for the for him to treat what they had diagnosed me with. But the surgeon was a psackoma surgeon, which was like a cancer surgeon, and so what they were doing to treat that is I put a needle in the middle of it and to ninety degree is leaving there for six minutes to pull it out, and it was done, and
so it's a CT guided procedure. But when he got the image up, he knew straight away that it was like psychoma, and so he treated it as he was supposed to and then took some more biopsies, and then I remember him like, I remember him saying that I would walk out of the hospital leg pain free, like would go straight away.
So what was the case of doing a simple op Yeah, just and just removing moving apart of the.
Just removing the tim with the with the heat.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so you're thinking that this stage right good? Yes, chill yeah, chill yeah, chill.
Right. Then I limped out of the hospital and that was when I was like, why is this still sore? Right?
So that happened and then you limped out the hospital.
And then about a week later the surgeon called me and the results I come back from the biopsy, which it was like an osteopsychoma, which is bone cancer in the ankle, and I think at that stage it was like a centimeter in diameter, so it was like quite small. Yeah, not too big and yeah, so pretty much started chemo. I think the week after that I went straight into.
Was this due to the trauma of the of the quick amount?
Oh yeah. So essentially all it is is like your bone cells just get muddled up when they're forming the bone. So typically it happens to children adolescent. I think maybe I just went through a growth spurt by twenty one, still growing and yeah, the souls just get muddled up and then turn into cancer.
When do you realize how serious is You know this is? You're feeling the pain, obviously you know it, but the doctors are saying, yeah, we do this, You're gonna limp out. No, why he's at all? And when do they go, well, actually, this is James coming. You need to sit down, buddy, we we need to talk about this.
I think the moment I left the hospital, I was sort of like, something's a bit weird about this. And then I still had pain the week after, like the pain had never gone away, and so I think in that I was sort of just not preparing myself for the worst. But you know, it's subconsciously I was like, I know something's wrong. I would be surprised if nothing
else happens as a result. But yeah, he called me the week after because he couldn't get me into the week after that, and he deserted and just didn't want to leave me all weekend and be like, I can't not tell you why. I'm making an appointment for you next week, so I'm just going to tell you have cancer. Wow, And which I wasn't surprised, so I think in that was probably like more relief. It all made sense.
And what's your personal life look like when he tells you this year? Are you alone? Have you got a partner? Are you living by yourself? Because you know that support network is so vitally important. When you receive, you know, such information that you've got cancer, it's like, well, who do.
You go to?
Did you have anyone to go to?
Well? I think growing up, my whole support system is always me, So I guess I even now when things happen, I just fall back into that. I mean, obviously I have friends and a support system, but yeah, in that moment, I was living alone. I had a full time job, and I was working at schools but at the school holidays, so I was like, crap, I'm not going to be able to go back next term. But I also don't know that.
And you've you've gained this resilience and gained this sort of strength of isolation of being by yourself. That's all you've known growing up, right, So so ultimately then I'm not sure the coating this in any way, but when he when you've received that information, it was a case of right, okay, I'm just you know, I've dealt with you know, I've dealt with this all my whole life.
You know I've dealt with I've dealt with you know, with with and I'm going to deal with with with this diagnosis right now.
I think it was also time and place. Like before what I was saying, I wanted to create myself like a great life, and I had. I was doing everything I wanted to do in a job that I've always wanted to do, but I also sort of felt stuck in my life, and I also didn't know what was next, or like I didn't feel feel fulfilled, and so I
didn't know what I wanted to do next. I guess so in that when he did tell me, for me, it was more just acceptance of, well, this was supposed to happen, and maybe this is what I needed to stop feeling stuck, if that makes sense, Like it was a new path, which is exactly what happened.
So you're making the best of a bad situation. Basically, you're going, look this, listen, this is I can't change it. I'm not going to try and control what I can't control. But now I need to you know, this is this has forced me into a new into a new head space. It has forced me into into a new space that I need to figure out.
Yeah, and I think even see, I don't even look at us a bad situation, like I understand, like cancer is scary, obviously can die. But I look back now and even in the moment, actually probably one of the nice experiences I've had in my life where the time that I spent even in hospital with like the nurses, some of them are my friends now, and you know, being able to go there and then go back home, and it was like it but in that I actually
really enjoyed it. It's actually a really nice experience and also a really nice experience to carry through, I guess for the rest of my life.
Do you think that do you think that was because people were going on the journey with you rather than you going on a journey by yourself.
Yes, I would definitely say yes, Like I feel like then you definitely find you figure out who your friends and your family are and your support system is. But I also like kept everything like pretty private from my friends and my family just because I actually feel like their sort of grief within it themselves was harder for me because I didn't feel the same. They had a lot of trouble like processing the emotions and being scared, where I was just sort of chill.
You're a pretty chill guy, James, So I have to give you that.
So in that I sort of just like, yeah, I sort of shielded them from that and just didn't speak or told them anything until I was ready.
And so when did you get that news? When did they say to you, we're gonna have to chop your leg off? Oh yeah, what was that news?
Like?
Because that's yeah, I know you're chill, you're chill, but that must.
I was chill And I don't even want to say that. My actually asked me about it the other day. I'm like, Oh, that was chilly. It's just like it must be really desensitized. I'm like, no, not. I actually just don't care. What was that like? It was interesting.
I just take me through that day when you get the phone call and they go come in and they sit you down and they go we're gonna we're gonna love your leg off you.
Well, that was never at the start. At the start, this was just a centimeter that we're going to start off with chemo. Yeah, the treatment plans like chemo for three months and then they look again to see like what the chemo is doing and how the cancers reacting to it and responding to it, and then they would look at a surgical plan. In the three months of chemo,
the pain just got worse. Actually, there were like two occasions where I think I was even in the hospital and they probably had given me every strong like pay med occasion that they could have that in the end that ended up knocking me out because I couldn't sleep because of the pain. Yeah, so chema for three months, and they went back for the scans to find out what they were going to do in surgery, which up until then they had always told me a bone graft.
But I think the pain is getting worse. I remember that morning and I just actually had a dream that night that my surgeon told me amputation. Oh really yeah yeah, And so I woke up in the morning. I was sort of not surprised, and I was also like I didn't know anything about prosthetics. I didn't know anything. And I remember that morning I was like, because my numb was there, I didn't want her to see, but I was like google prosthetics and just like, oh you were you. Yeah.
I was just like researching how all that works. And then when I got there for the appointment, they give you like a little appointment slip. I only had one appointment, true slips came out and I was like, where's that second appointment coming from? And I was like I know what this is. So yeah, when I went in and the search and told me amputation, yeah, I was just
actually chill, yeah, no response. And there was also like one of the social worker in there from the hospital and they were both just like looking at me waiting for reaction, and my nan she was crying, but I just had to ignore her for that second, respectfully.
Getting there but also disrespectfully yeah keep quiet, Yeah, I'm going through this at the moment.
At the moment, yeah, that was just like staring at me for a reaction, and I was just like looking at them, but both like okay, I can sign it now, because I just wanted to get out of there instead of them staring at me. And so yeah, the surgeon was like, ay, sure, like we can do the other option. I'm like, well, it's actually not really an option, so yeah,
I'm sure. The other option was to remove the whole ankle joint, because the cancer ended up going around the whole ankle joint, and so the first well, the alternate option was to remove the ankle joint and then put a rod up through my heel to hold the foot and the I know, the angle that's not there together, I don't know.
Yeah, but then an ankle reconstruction.
Yeah, but then I'd have a fixed ankle as well. I wouldn't be able to remove it, and then there's like skin contaminations, so then I'd have to have plastic surgery to remove parts of the skin where the cancer the souls were so they don't turn cancerous, and greater risk of the cancer coming back.
You're still very active, right, You're still sporty still.
That would have limited me, yeah, and it would have annoyed me that I would have wanted them to actually chop it off.
Yeah exactly, So there was a multiple You already calculated it, like you said that you already had the answer in your head.
I was already into it.
So take me through the day that they actually decided to put you.
On there, and oh yeah, so happened the week after?
Oh so that quick? So you made the decision. You want to talk you out of it?
Was anyone know that I did? Not necessarily because like in the appointment that day, I signed the paperwork and after that was like all rightyes, So like when I thought maybe like a month, it's like next Tuesday, I was okay, great, yeah, yeah, wow, and look scary because you're like having a leg chopped off. And my sisters were there and they had freaked me out. But like, imagine if they take the wrong leg when they take both.
Ye. Now, yeah, obviously talk you through where they're going to take it from.
And I just knew it was blowney And maybe I don't know if they told me specifically.
So they didn't show you any charts or anything that I like, ye, we're going to take off from here.
The surgeon showed me the knife.
Yeah, lovely.
It was a serrated one.
Because you were so chill. He's like, I want some reaction from you. James.
Well, he kept explaining to me and like showing me, and then he was like trying to show me how as they're cutting with the knife, there's like a suction that like sucks up all the blood. I'm like, why are you showing me?
This is my leg?
Just get on with But yeah, he did sort of say the process. But what they do really is they stop all the nerve endings first and sort of I'm going to say, kill them, yeah, just so as your brain's last memory of the ankle is a pain free one because it was in pain. So they do that first to make sure that you're rain's last memory.
And how do they do that is it? Is it a medicine or.
Yeah? And then that's all I know.
So you wake up. What's the first thing you do when you wake up?
Well, I woke up with an EPI drool. So the first thing I wanted to do actually was checked to make sure.
They took the correct leg because of your sisters.
But there was a nurse in there and I just did not want her to know. That's what I was doing like checking and make sure the leg was the right one. So then I go through a thought process, Oh my god, why don't I just like move my left leg. I have an epidriol. So then I can't feel my left leg and I can't move that. I was like, shit, have they taken the wrong leg. But then I literally just grabbed my phone and I knew, look, I just wanted macas breaky. I don't know why. I
was just craving out. It's like he's going to get it for me. And I was like, I know, if I call my sisters and tell them that's what I want, then I'm going to deliver. So I had to like, oh my god, I need you to come here. Players.
Yeah, just my leg cut off, get me McDonald's.
Yeah, it came straight away, and I was like, I just wanted to make his break.
And they wanted to leg off.
I'm like, I'm actually really fine, And is.
There a moment that reality kicks in that you go WHOA, Well, actually I've got quite a quite a journey from here onwards. Yes, you straight into it, your mindset, you just straight into.
So I had the surgery done on Tuesday Friday, and I still had an every drool and stuff. Friday, I reckon. I argued with the doctors all day Friday, and they settled on turning everything off but leaving it in overnight to see how it go, and they took everything out on Saturday morning. I never had pain since.
Oh really, yeah, so the pain that you've been experiencing for over a year now.
Was gone gone. And I had no pain from the surgical wound either, wow, which I remember in that moment when they did turn it off, I was like, oh shit, this actually might be really sore, like they did just chop a whole leg off, but you know, no pain. And they sent me home a week after because there's like no point in me being there. I was doing everything myself. And then I think I went back to cross fit while the while it was healing on one leg.
You're just on crutches. You're back in the CrossFit gym.
Because I hadn't had chemo, I was starting to feel like normal again, like my in terms of my energy and.
So everything really is even though it's a negative situation, everything for you, pain wise, mobility wise, it was was was positive right because you're no longer in pain. I'm no longer going through chema. Get back into the gym. Yeah, I might have might be hobbling around for a bit, but I'll get used to it. I'll figure it out. So everything was I suppose a positive challenge for you, then woulds and that's how you looked at it. I'm just like adapting, Yeah, adapting. Yeah.
I remember my friend said to me once, like when I told her that it was like being amputated, she said to me once, this would just be your new normal, and I was like, oh my god. True. So I think just taking that on board and using that into creating my own new normal of what that would look like. And I think it's like a human vestor you're constantly making sense of the world. Every interaction, like everywhere you go, you're gumuly taking an information that you're going to use
tomorrow and the day after. And I think it's all part of that.
Really, there's all part of that process, isn't it. Do you feel in these these phantom pains? And so you didn't feel that you didn't go through any of that and wait a little bit, Yeah.
Where I just had the feeling of like wanting to stretch my toe is out that my toes went.
So that does exist. It's just true.
It does. Yeah, but I don't I get it very I can bring it on like I can sit here and I have to actually really think about it now, but I can like move my big toe that's not there. Because essentially what it is is your brain is unable to recognize that that part of the body's gone because it's not a typical thing. So because your brain hasn't had a response from it for a while, it will
send pain signals to be like hey you up. Essentially, So when I first started in the phantom pain, I just distracted myself because I was like, it's just my brain thinking about it, and you know, so it's just distracted myself when it'll stopped. And I also think it
comes from like a positive mindset as well. I know other people who have lost limbs, and you know, obviously people experience things differently, and you know, different types of trauma when you lose a limb, and I see I have seen a lot of people like with phantom pain that you know that sometimes I forget the hospital and your hospital asked for it. But yeah, I've never had any of those experiences.
So I don't know, but I love that because you you have you know, you've got such a positive way of breaking things down, process and things.
Yeah, even I remember in OT saying that I would never have a dream again. I would never not have a dream with nothing but two legs because your brain wouldn't be able to comprehend that I now have one leg. Ye, so I would never have a dream from the amputation. I've never actually had a dream of two legs. So I'm like, I really think it's just really accepting and tapping into that.
Yeah, it's powerful, really really really powerful. So you go along your your loving life again. Is that right? You're after the amputation? You're back in the gym? Are you back at work? Are you back in the back to go straight back with the Yeah?
So I think I finished came around November, there was literally like four weeks left of term. But as soon as term one started I was straight back full time. And yeah, straight back into normal life, straight.
Back into normal life. And then when did the modeling career come around? I know that your friend had had a clothing company, was that right?
Yeah? Yeah, well her family owned the clothing shop where I lived and I reckon that was a year after.
So during that year you're back into a routine your loving life. Are you still sort of stuck in the you know where you don't know where the next journey is or you don't know where the next you know, the purposes or the next goal? Were you well in?
That is when I sort of, I think realized and then that sort of all came at once. I think then going from able to then being disabled, to seeing how people interacted with me and you know, spoke to me differently. I think every day for like a good six months, I would hear someone say that's I'm so sad for you and that's so sorry, which to me was nothing.
But the word yeah, the worst thing.
I can imagine that even looking at me as like a sad sack or like, oh you feel sorry for me? Nothing to feel sorry for. I think in that opened up, did that piss you off? Oh yeah at the start, yeah, because it's like you have no way out and you can't even say anything.
Because what can you say, and that you know that it's China they mean good but oh yeah yeah yeah.
And it comes from yeah, it comes from like yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, but it also comes from the perception and narrative around disability that we have, and I think that really just comes from media and the perception that we have.
I love that because then I was able to like look back at or I had to really debunk it myself and redefine it myself, because I even had trouble saying, oh ya, I'm disabled or like being referenced in that way, because for me, in that moment, disabled meant something different that I was unable or I couldn't do this, or I couldn't do that, and that was not the correct perception.
That what it is. You just hit the man on the side that disabled almost is unable. Yeah, yeah, And it seemed like it is portrayed like that. The media portrayed like that.
Someone can sit by a car, what happens at the end, someone's all of a sudden now using wheelchair. That can happen, but that's portrayed, and what you infer from that is that it's the worst thing that could happen to you. And then you take that on and that starts to form a perception of a disability or someone using a wheelchair. And I definitely had that even when I worked and then looking back at my work at the special school,
I was like, same thing. Then sort of realized that I had my own internalizedablest thoughts that I had to work through. And for me, yeah, just come down to the either lack of representation or the misrepresentation in media.
So you're learning about this firsthand, right, you would It wouldn't have even entered your head before. Right, And now you're you're starting to see what people are look at me, Different people are talking to me, different people are treating me differently. And then is it is it a case of right? No, no, no, no, this is this? Isn't it now that it was? It a new sense of purpose for you?
Yes, because I went on the journey myself time.
Yes, and I realized that.
And then as I would interact with more people and I would hear those things, I would just question them like why because they would also not have the answer for that would tell me they felt so sad for me or sorry for me. I'm like, okay, why oh, because you lost your Like okay, but like why does that make you sad?
I'm like, I'm actually like still doing everything, I'm pain free, and.
Like that does not define or purpose. So yeah, I think because my friend owned a clothing shop, has just got a camera and they were just like mucking around for social media. Yeah, I just did that for fun with a friend. And then from then is when I started modeling and people were just like reaching out to me online.
And then I think, but why you were doing that? Were you were you? Were you still passionate and portraying this message of yes, yes, so simultaneously that you merge the two together.
And then in that is when I realized, oh, this is probably how I could shift the narrative. Love that and you know, probably be in a position to at least unknown him, use my voice or at least create more representation for people with the disability.
Is the power the power of social media, because that's when the power of social media really comes alive because people can relate to it. And that's where I thinks a viable and you start to make a name for yourself and you you start to think, wow, you know people are listening. I can change people's perspective, I can change people's minds, I can change people's lives one percent.
And I think in that I really learned that how to sort of do that rather than telling people, because when you tell people, they're not going to listen. They need to come up with it themselves. So even you know, when I yeah, even when I first started advocating, you know, I guess I was just sharing my dating messages where people would message me straight up be like what happened
to your leg? Or like question this in question that, And all I would do is just screenshot it and share it because then people would start to form their own perception and sort of realize what was happening in that themselves that I actually didn't ex spell it out for them. So I think that became a powerful tool in inviting people into the conversation, also with a bit of humor, like I don't really care, it's funny, you know.
So I think that also realized how to tap into people and how to advocate in a way where people come up with the answers themselves rather than telling.
People, because that's what they need to do. You need to make them think ultimately, exactly, exactly, Wow, So you're doing this, when do you realize, shit, you know, people that you know this is this is real?
Yeah, I think I took a year. I think it was like that whole year of just like building a career that I didn't like. To be honest, respectfully, I didn't even try.
Just like doing your thing.
Let's see what happens there. Yeah, and then I think after a year it was probably at the end of that year that I remember I spoke to my principal. I was like, oh, I don't know if I will come back next year, like I had an ongoing contract. But then I said to him, maybe I'll just like come back for the first two terms and then I'm out after that, just give him a heads up. And I remember him saying, the job that you do here, you might be able to find more purpose in doing
that in different ways. And that's when it really clicked for me. And I was like, right, I do need to get out of here. So yeah, I finished up at then determined. Then I moved to Melbourne. And then in that is when I sort of like realized what you were saying before everything I do and say and sort of did change.
And was there a moment, Was there a moment you thought, Wow, you know I'm in this now my life, you know this is the direction that I'm going in. Yeah, I think all the responsibility altip that that I have.
Yeah, for sure. I think it was probably at the end of that year when I when I did that. At the end of that year, I booked a Calvin Klein International campaign, and I remember saying to my manager for like three months, I'm like, I'm not doing bonds. I do like, for no reason except for if I was to do underway, I just want to do Calvin Client, which even now I'm like, that's crazy that I actually did do that, But I was like, I'll never get that,
but it doesn't matter. I'm sticking to it. And then I booked it like a month after they to me it was like who do who do we talk to? And yeah, So I think that then was probably like the moment, Yeah, that sort of ticked over for me.
Yeah, and that just went on from one to another to another to another. Then when did you get the the call for the GQ. You know, that's quite a you know, quite a remarkable moment when you're recognized, you know, GQ Man of the Year. You know, it's known, not only known globally. I've been to I've been to one myself in the UK and it's you know, you get some really inspirational and motivational, and you know people there
that you can't help but just listen to. And what does it feel like to go there knowing that you're one of those people.
Like out of body?
Yeah?
Yeah, I guess I sort of knew from if the award show was in December, I probably knew from September. So from September is when the Convert leg they came to me and we're just asking my availabilities for the award show and then like looking at a photo shoot and stuff like that. I was saying to my manager, I'm like, does that, Like, why what's it? Am I model of the ear?
Yeah?
She was like, well, they haven't confirmed it. I'm like, I don't think they need to, Like I think this is it. And then when when I booked the photo shoot, I was on the phone to her. I'm like, so you're gonna ask them now am I it or not? Like what's the photo shoot for? But yeah, and then that was confirmed, so I sort of knew. And then I did the photo shoot and then yeah, another two that was in October, so I knew for good two months. In that two months, I felt weird.
So you embraced it so everything that came you embraced. And what was it like standing, you know, being awarded, you know, even though you knew it, I know you knew it, and but you know, the whole world now knows it. Yeah.
Yeah, it such a weird experience. Actually, I was, you know, obviously two month to prepare for it, and then we.
Got to the day and I was like, oh, crap, where you cheer one a day or not?
But like.
The one time that you wasn't killed.
That everyone was worried chill until they told me I was, I think the first award winner that I was like, oh my god, I'm going to have to be first up there, Like what if I'm like I want to see what other people are saying, Like what if I'm up there too long? Like what if I need to pull some stuff out? But being the first was like actually probably the best because then I just had a
good night for the rest. But I remember getting up there and just like Willow Smith was looking into my soul and cheering my name, and I was just like I cannot talk now.
Yeah now I'm not chill.
Yeah, yeah, that was the scariest. But no, I think it's you know, even though it was a water to me. I think it's mainly awarded for people with the disability, and I think it's also having people with the disability in mainstream spaces and spaces that they may not have been before, and you know, valuing people with the disability as people without a disability.
And would you say that your disability is the best thing that's ever happened to you.
Made I like better parking, So yeah, absolutely.
Yes, what's next for you, James?
Yeah, I'm sort of we established that before. I sort of live in the present. Yeah, I feel like up until now, I've done everything that I wanted to achieve or do. Last year, you know, I just planted a seed in my head. I'm like, I want to do a Ted talk, and then like two weeks later someone's asking me, so yeah, I don't know. I feel like I sort of just like go through and float around and I have little ideas in my head of what I do want to do. But I think it's just
keeping them in my head until the right time, the opportunity. Yeah, because I feel like I'll plant the seed in my head and it turns into something different. Sure, you know, but I think there's more of a need for people with disability and acting. I remember when I did my first runway, and I had done a runway earlier in the week and then I had to go back later
in the week for a fitting. And so where they had the runway was at fed Square in Melbourne, and there was a big billboard out the front that had like just like highlights of the runway. I remember seeing myself up there while I was waiting for the fitting. And coincidentally, I don't know how things like this happen all the time, but coincidentally, there was like I reckon It was about five or six years old with his dad and he had a prosthetic and he was walking
past the screen. I don't know why, but they just like stopped and watched the screen and I was like, oh, I wonder if you'll see me, And so yeah, I watched and when I popped up on the screen and the way, he like grabbed his dad and like pointed and just like that what that's exactly what? Yeah? Because I was like, how beautiful is that that? That's probably the first time he's ever seen someone like him? But also how sad is that?
Yeah?
Why has that taking this long, whether it's five or six, five or six years without seeing someone that looks like you.
They was exactly where it was supposed to be at that time and apparently. Wow, yeah, amazing. James, You've been absolutely phenomenal. What a story. Listen, thanks ever so much for coming in, Thanks for your time. You and I know that a lot of people will gain a lot of inspiration and motivation and knowledge from this podcast, So thank you, mate, Thank you. You can follow James on Instagram and TikTok. I'll put the details in the show notes. Thanks for joining me on this episode of head Game.
If you enjoyed this episode, please leave me a review. I'm at Middleton. See you again next time.