We'd like to acknowledge that traditional custodians of the land on which this podcast was produced the gadigall people of the urination. We pay our respects to Elder's past and present. This episode contains discussion of suicide. If this raises any issues for you, support is available through the links and phone numbers in the show notes.
Now they go along the line the folk mother of Rogers, Rogers with that incisive place of Issadum, and he's accelerated himself with the first that's so run from his outside.
It's October twenty twenty two and Matt Rodgers has the first copy of his memoir in his hands. It's titled A Father's Son. This is a big moment. These pages are filled with the memories and stories that shaped his journey to greatness. He's one of the most talented footbulers of the modern era and a dual international in rugby league and rugby union, but carving this path hasn't been easy.
These same pages share the heartache and hardships he's experienced along the way, from experimental surgery to losing his parents in tragic circumstances. In writing this book, Matt has reflected on it all for the very first time. I'm Att Middleton and this is head Game today. Matt Rogers on creating his own identity and legacy. Now I'm super stoked to have the legend that is Matt Rogers on the head Game. Matt, how are you, buddy going?
Well, I'm going well, yeah, just living the dream. Some would say up here on the Gold Coast and they're enjoying life.
Good mate, that's music to my ears. I'm glad you're enjoying life. Got a big smile on your face. It looks like you're in a You're in a good place, which is always always important. Talk to me about the younger Matt Rogers. You know, obviously you were introduced into the Fretty world from the moment you were born, right.
Yeah, absolutely. I Mean my childhood was a bit I was full on. You know, I had an older brother. Obviously my dad was the footing star, so it was always around us. So at a very young age, you know, having that older brother who was a couple of years older, and mean, I just wanted to play footy with him, and you know, he started playing and I was sort of out of the loop, so to speak. With him
and my dad and my older brother. They would talk footy and I was like this sort of four year old trying to get in on the chats and I wasn't a part of it because I wasn't playing. So I kicked them screened and got thet got the tick of approval to go and play from my dad. Actually, my mum just got sick of me badgering her like you know, tears, and I said, I want to play. And normally some mums keeping their little kids out of footy, but my mum was like, right, if your father says
it's all right, you can play. So Dad finally relented and let me play it ninety four the ball. Back in those days there was no many footy, so the ball was sort of as big as me. There's a picture of me holding it and it's almost got two arms around it. I was pretty talented sports wise. I can coordination all that sort of stuff, and probably just had it over my brother and not not quite much, but enough. From the age of about sort of seven and onwards, I started to get the wood over him
in a lot of the game. Right back. You've got to think back then, there was no yeah, I mean, atari was probably there was none of that stuff. So we went outside playing everything. I was a faster runner than him, and so, yeah, made I beat him in tennis and he just beat the shit out of me. And I beat him in handball and he just cracked me in and I just and I used to win.
Your complaining to mum. And my brother used to get a bit of a hiding off my dad every time he did it to me because I was his little brother. But and my mom, well, she couldn't really do anything about it. Like my mom would say to me, like, you can easily stop it, just stop beating him. And I'm like, no way in the world am I going to stop beating him, Like it's the only thing I've got over.
Him, because to stop the beatings, you got to stop beating.
Yeah.
Yeah, it sounded like that you were really really close the three boys of the house. Is that correct? Or were you all really close?
Well, my dad, my dad was hard on my brother, and I probably harder on my brother. My brother had it pretty rough when he was younger because he wasn't quite the athlete that I was, and I was sort of following dad and he was trying and he was pretty rough. I sort of got a little bit of favor from the old man because I was pretty good at football. But I was trying to sort of follow on his footsteps and trying to get his attention. And yeah, it's the old story. You know, back in the seventies
and eighties, men were different. You know, the love and affection wasn't the same. And it's the story is like every guy my age I talked to, it's like the same. Like you know, trying to get your attention to your old men and they're you know, they're being hard and tough, and then you look at their life, like my old man was my old man. That pop, My pop was a World War two it and just mate, just tough as nails and just showed zero emotions, zero love. And that was my old man.
Yeah, that was there.
And like I'm like, well, I'm just getting the flow on of that. So I look back and I just, man, I'm grateful for it. I've got to be honest now because I look at the world now and I just say, man, I mean I've got a business where I have to hire people and I see them mentally the life and I just makes you want to throw up.
It's changed so much, doesn't It's like, you know, if you've done what you've done, you know, and what was done to you years ago, and they're not in a bad way. But you know, that's why we're so disciplined, and that's why we're so we're resilient, that's why we're tougher. And it's just a different, different era, isn't it.
Yeah. And I'm not throwing shade on this generation because I think there's some great stuff, you know. I mean, I've got kids that are growing up in this generation. And you know, sometimes sometimes I like have to catch myself or my wife certainly catches me. It's like you gotta, you know, give them a compliment rather than just going after what they're doing wrong, or you've got to you know,
like it's hard, you know. I think my twenty eight year old boy, my oldest boy, he probably caught the worst because I was a new parent, I was young, and I was just sort of doing what I've been shown and I just here's what I know, and I just I just know the world is frigging hard. The world is a hard place, and it does not care about you. And if you lay down and you think it's gonna pick you back up, It just it will not. It will kick you when you're down.
And it will hold you exactly. If you think it's going to, you know, give you opportunities, and if it's going to lay lay everything on a platter for you, you're mistaken. You've got to go out there. You've got to get it. You've got to tackle it, you've got to face it, you got to challenge it.
So from sort of age age, sort of, I would say, seventeen to twenty one, my oldest boy sort of rebelled and I actually thought I lost him. I thought, I don't know what's going to happen here. And you know, fortunately, now you know, he's married and got his little my granddaughter, his daughter Elsie, with his wife, Maddie, and it's beautiful. I love it, you know, And I love the man
he's become. And he's focused and he's disciplined. And I probably put that down to the hardness of you know, back in the early days of his life, when I've just tried to drill into him. It's like, mane, it doesn't matter who you are, doesn't matter what your last name is, doesn't matter. If you're good, if you can't deliver, you.
Go on and if anyone knows that, it's you, right, because you grew up with your dad, Steve, being an absolute legend in the game and going on to be in the CEO of the club, etc. So talk about you know the name, talk about the pressure, talk about the validation that you seeking, Like, like you said, was the pressure sometimes too much as a kid. And I talk about you know, young teenage sort of years going into into becoming a professional. How did that weigh on your shoulders?
Yeah, I think I handled it pretty well, to be honest, as a as a kid, you know, as a as a as a teenager, I sort of arrogantly embraced it. And when I would go and play in competitions or I'd be trying out for repsides, I would use that as fuel, like I'm Steve Rogerson, Like no one's going to be better than me. You know, I'm going to go out there and I'm going to show them because
I want to hear people. Would you would walk past a group of people they say, that's that's Steve Rodgerson, that's you know, you'd hear the whispers and I would be like yeah, and I'll show you. You know, it wasn't until probably moving into the professional ranks when it
really started to annoy me. And I'm embarrassed to say it, to be honest, like it it sort of really pissed me off as it like a sort of seventeen to sort of twenty one the first year, you know, I got up to Kernulla and it was like, you know, my name was written in the paper if I did something good, but it was never Matt Rogers. I felt like my name for a period of time was Matt Rogers,
son of former test great Steve Rodgers. Like if my name was written in any news article, that's how it was written, Matt Rodgers, son of form of tests great Steve Rodgers. But what I sort of failed to realize was, you know, at that age, because you're just not mature enough, is he don't have the right to have his name like that after what he'd done. And I see young athletes now coming into the game with fathers who had done it before them, you know, as the Zoo Boys
are perfect examples like trying to force her own. But that Zoo name, the reason people know that name is because of your dad, you know, like until you came on the scene and you're doing amazing things. Boys, you're doing great, but you're old man. That's why that name is known now. We all know you now because you're doing great things. But you know, honor that name, don't care it to try to build yourself up, and that was what I was doing. And I just I'm like,
I'm Matt Rogers. You know, I don't want to I don't want my name written like this. And you know, my mum, you know, I went through a tragic sort of you know, five years of cancer and brain tumor and everything. And it wasn't until she came and watched me play in an Australian game and she collapsed at halftime and that's when they discovered she had a brain tumor and she got rushed into surgery. I got rushed
off the field. At the end of the game. I had the best game that I'd ever had for Australia. I think I scored a few tries, kicked the sway your goals and set a record for most points in the game. And I get rushed to the hospital and my mum's literally being taken in taken in to be
operated and I've got to have emergency surgery. And she's in right in the room before you go into the operating toater, that little room you know where they do sh up with sort of pre med stuff, and you're all woozing, you know, and I sort of rush in there and she grabs me and I don't know whether I'm going to ever seen my mum again. Like she is, you know, brain surgery, and it was heavy. She'd been going through breast cancer for about four years at upstage.
She pulls me in tight. She says, you know, you've made it, You've made it, and I'm not what do you mean? She goes, I'm not Steve Rodgers's wife anymore. I'm Met Rogers's mom, you know. And wow, that was huge.
And that must have been when she got to the game or you know, people must have said, oh, your MAT's mom, you know, like said like everywhere she went before it was oh, you're Steve's wife, you know, And for her to be thinking of me in that moment, you know, just really that was that was who my mum was.
And you said she was battling cancer four years to that point.
For that, yeah, yeah. I mean she died at forty six breast cancer. You know, so she was very young, and they rattled the whole family. You know, I've got to tell you like it was. She was. She was really the glue that held everything together. My dad was sort of a man's man and a wild boy and you know, he could fit in anywhere, but she was definitely the glue that helped every run together.
So and Matt let me just quickly rewind there. So when so you're going through this and I don't want to call it an identity crisis, you know, because it's not. You know exactly who you are. You're strong, you're on the pitch, you're playing, you're loving the game. But always this is happening as well. You're you're bat you're obviously at your mom's side, battling, helping her, trying to battle cancer.
So you've got your mum, your dad, and then you're gain to concentrate on how did you split your time between between all of that.
Yeah, it was hard. It's a young family too at the time, you know, you know, a little one year old and a three year old at the time. It was probably one of the hardest times in my life, you know, just and my dad was really just not not not ignorant to the fact of how bad the situation was, but it affected him so much you didn't want to acknowledge it. So you know, at the back end, you know, when Mum was in pallative care, I remember him just being, you know, so absent from the situation.
Like Mum and Dad were, you know, teenage sweethearts, you know, like they met on the Gold Coast and you fell in love, and Mum was all Dad new in terms of his home life, and and I knew, and I knew when Mum was gone my dad and Dad is this is not going to be good for that because he was just so dependent on mom. And Mom was just so amazing with us and with him, and she was my dad was a hard man, so it was hard to talk to. And Mum was a conduit for
all us kids to Dad, except for my sister. My sister got everything off Dad, you know, like she was Dad's ye know, but but for us boys, like if we didn't have Mum, it was hard to speak to that.
That's interesting. How is your how was your relationship with your dad?
Then? Well, we weren't we didn't get on because he was my boss at the time. He was the Carnola Shark's boss, and I was and I was one of the star players, so to speak. So he would try to get me to do stuff because it was easy for him that other players didn't want to do. So go and do a morning to this business and spend an hour with their clients, and go and do this. And he just used to put it on me every
week and I'm like, no, I'm not doing it. I'm going to see him month, I'm going to spend time. Mom was in pallative care at the time. This is the back end. And I just remember this man Dad just like Buttonhead so much, and I just, you know, I think I wrote about it in my book I lost my Dad. I literally didn't like he was not my My phone would ring and I was like, is this my dad? Call him? Or is this the CEO
of the Canal Sharks Court. And so I just put him into the phone and I would never return his calls. So I just didn't speak to him, and it just became really hard for both of us. So and that was a very big That was a big conduct for the reason why I left because I wanted to get my dad back. I didn't want him to be my boss anymore, you know, particularly after all the stuff that we were going through and being through. But but you know my mom, you know, you got lover like she's
you know, imparative care. She's you weeks away from dying, and she tells me on a deathbed, you can't leave Cronulla. It'll ruin your dad. And I'm like, what, I can't do that, mum, Like you can't tell me that I'm an adult. I've got a wife and kids and you can't tell me that. Like it's unfair, it's sort of all. It sort of broke my heart to be honest, that
she would say that to me. But I mean, it would have been worse if I went to Saint George or off I went to Manly, or if I went to like if I stayed in rugby league and went to another club, that would have been worse. For that, it would have been worse, like as the CEO of the club and you know, one of their star players lose and it's your son, Like you can't work that out.
So for me and having the rugged union background, so you know, fortunately, you know After a couple of weeks, Mom mum and obviously spoken to Dad and me and she realized what was going on. So, you know, before she passed, she's she actually said to me, you have to leave, You have to get out of there, otherwise it's this is this can't be you too. You know, like my dad was my hero, you know, like most
young boys said, dad's a hero. And the crazy thing about my dad being my hero, he was every kid in the neighborhoods hero as well, So like you know, he was it was and I just wanted to be like him. And this was a really really hard time in my life where I sort of felt like I'd lost him and I was about to lose my mind.
When you started, were you starting to dislike him? Because I went through the same with with with my with my parents. I started to dislike them and then I didn't want to be around them. And it was like, like you said that he's your hero, and then all of a sudden, you're starting to hate your hero.
It's you got I was furious. I was furious just with a lot of things that were going on, and I just I couldn't believe it. I did I did lean towards that, you know, like there was always sort of like like that didn't build sort of love. But I was just hating being in his space, and I just didn't want to see him. Yeah.
The only reason why I say that is because when you got the calls and you said I wouldn't even call back, is because you didn't even want to be around him. You didn't even want to hear his voice. And I've been there where you're just like and you I realized that I start to hate one of my parents, and I was like, Wow, that's a really really bad place to be in a really bad headspace to be in. And then your mom. I love that your mum on
her deathbed of all places, bless her. She's now the you know she does she help mold this situation into into you leaving right.
Yeah, well, you know, you know the crazy thing about it was, you know, she said that a few days later she passed away. Dad wasn't there. I was there, and I had the ring dad and tell him that Mom had gone, and he got there, and you know, we just broke down and hugged and sort of made
a pact that we'd be okay. And I told him that day I was leaving, and he said he understood and he'd support me one hundred percent, to the point where as the CEO of the kronol Of Sharks at my press conference for the Australian Rugby Union, he came and sat next to me on the table, which is a pretty big move.
How did your mum's passing affect you psychologically? What was going through your head? And how how did you move on psychologically from that?
Yeah, it's a long time ago now, you know. I've had a lot of people ask me how did you do? How did you go through all that stuff? Like how did you do it? And and I think I just I just wanted to sort of like a mode of just do what needs to be done, you know, and and kept busy, like you know, I remember I organized, you know, all of my mum's funeral with my brother and my sister, you know, like we did a dad didn't. I didn't my dad to have to worry about it.
You know, we did it all. You know. I just I tried to you know, you know it's funny you're asking me this. I got on with life, but I never I never broke down. I never I never cried.
Never.
I just thought until I remember my wife, now, Chloe, we were sitting in my apartment and we just started talking about my mum. And you know, Chloe reminds me so much of my mum, you know, like just their outgoing nature. And but you know, you could put her in the room with the Queen, she'd sit right in, or you could chuck her in the sports bar of Nordis and she'd pull me out by me year if I was playing out. That's true. Actually, my mum had to be like that.
And I think a good level keep your grounded, right, Yeah, exactly so.
And I just remember just breaking down that night and crying, and Chloie asked me if you ever cried over your mom and what not? And I broke down. I just uncontrollably cried for about an hour with Chloie you hugging me,
and I just I'll never forget that night. And yeah, I just I just think I just shut it all down, you know, because I was, you know, the guy out in the public and you know, everybody was looking at me, and yeah, I had to I had to be strong for the family, so to speak, and tried tried not to have to deal with it, I guess. But in the end, you know, it all comes around, and you know what, it was just that moment where you know, it just all came out and it was just I'll
tell you what. I wake up the next day feeling amazing.
It was just the best I've been there. Mate, You've been there. You sort of you do. It's supurge that you need the emotional dump that you need. It obviously didn't affect your your your footy. Obviously didn't affect your play because you just you just was it a sense of escapism, hitting the hitting the footy pitch ye thanks.
Yeah, yeah, Like you know, there's a few things I love doing, right I used to. I love playing footy because now one can get to you, and it's your space. You're out there, you know, sort of doing your thing with your mates. I love surfing because I could paddle out to the ocean and now I'm like, and if someone's annoying, I can just paddle away. I'm just out
there enjoying nature. And you know, I love playing golf or running through the trails in the bush, just outside away from people where I mean, I'm in my own world. So just a lot of that stuff. And yeah, and and fody just you know, foody always came easy to me. You know, it wasn't it wasn't hard for me to do. But you have to train hard to be good, don't get me wrong, But footy came easy. So I, you know, after my mom passed, I just you know, really sort
of stuck my head down and my butt up. And you know, I just signed to go over to rugby, so I wanted to do well there and it meant a lot to me not to go over there and just take a paycheck and not perform. So yeah, I totally enjoyed that that change, and that was it sort of happened at a good time. In a month passed, my season ended. I finished off with the Sharks. We played a prelim finally against the Knights, and the last try I scored my best made who I played with
the Sharks. He was the hooker and he was useless at kicking the ball anyway, For some unbeknown reason, he jumped out of doub me half and kicks the ball and I run down and the third full back knocks it on and I ended up scoring a try. So that was my last try in rugby league at the Sharks, and it was off my mate's rotten kick, which was hilarious.
It was a lot of how you go out meant to be, mate, it was meant to.
Be went over to rugby and having that change. Although I played rugby a lot, like I didn't play any rugby league as a teenager. I just played was oh sorry. I came back to the Sharks as a seventeen year old, but you know, from from fourteen to seventeen it was just rugby. I didn't play any ugue, so I knew the game, but coming back to it at twenty six, there was still a lot I had to sort of scrub up on a lot of stuff, so I didn't
have time to think about anything else but that. And so the timing was good for that move, Like one pass finished the season straight into my changeover to rugby, and it just gave me a real sort of new lease on life. You know, my dad and I were getting on like a house on fire because he wasn't my boss, he was my dad again, and I felt really good about where my life was, you know, it was in the right direction.
And we spoke about how it affected you psychologically. How did it affect your dad because you said at the beginning of this this talk that you feared that if your mum wasn't here, your dad would really suffer. Did he suffer?
Oh yeah, yeah, he suffered from He suffered from the diagnosis through to a death and then beyond.
And could you see changes in his behavior in it? Or was he quite again we talk about that era of just putting up that stone face, that stone wall, and yet no, I'm fine, don't worry about it, I don't want to talk about it. I'm good to go. Was he very much like that? Wasn't Were there any signs that you could see?
Or he was very hard edged, you know, like very stone wall sort of. You know, I can deal with this, you know, and to be honest, and I didn't want to see it any other way. Like my dad was my hero and he was this big, strong dude, and I didn't want to That's why I wanted to take everything off him, like in terms of the funeral and stuff, and I just you know, I had him on a pedestal and I didn't want to see him break probably
selfie on my behalf. But you know, as kids sort of took over there because when you're too hard.
That's interesting, that is because yeah, I suppose you don't. He's your hero, he's your he's your protector, you know. You know, if something goes wrong, then he's that that that that sheet of concrete that will protect you. And you don't want to see that crumble, right, No, No, And.
You know it wasn't until you know, I sort of a probably probably he and I, you know, after me leaving Cronella and then I moved into the city and I didn't see him a lot. You know, we talked a bit, and then then I came back to Cronulla and moved back with Chloe, and and Chloe was pregnant, and I remember going over and telling him and he was so excited and he was about he was just he was excited and he was he was he was going on a trip. I remember saying to Collie, like,
did he seem happy about going away? She's like not really, I'm all right. So we left and yeah, I was the last time I saw him. I couldn't put my finger on it. It just wasn't him. You know. We were coming home from from from Byron and back in those days. He is eighteen years ago now she's she's we've been going in and out of service areas that you're driving from Byron Bay back to Sydney and there he called me like two in the morning when I was on the road because we drove over night and
I didn't get the call. I got the message at lunchtime the next day. But he killed himself that morning.
How do you find out that your dad's passed? You get a phone call from your brother.
I'll tell you. My neighbor, my good neighbor, like he's one of my one of my really good friends, and he was one of Dad's really good friends. He's just banging on my door, like and I'd got home at like four five in the morning. I've literally been in bed for an hour and Chloe was up and I just hear this yelling at my front door. He's made up, he's made up. And Chloe's like, no, no, he's upstairs asleep. I can hear him he has he spoken to anyone? And I just remember him keep saying, has he spoken
to anyone? Chloe come from an upstairs. She goes Downsy's Mart and down so we call him Downsy Downsy's downstairs. He really wants to speak to you. He said, don't speak to anyone on your phone. Don't don't pick up your phone. So I go downstairs and I seen him and he goes and he's spoken anyone. And I said, man, shop just got home. What's going on? He goes, you got to come with me now as the crow flies. My dad lived about sort of five hundred meters, you know,
like like just he lived on the beach. I lived on the bay. And before before all this happened. And my dad, when we first moved into that house, we had a we had a party there. We're not a party. I had a few mates over and Downsy had just moved in next door to me, and I knew him and Dad were good mate. So he leaned over the b and he goes what he did, and Chloe was away. I said, we're just having a few beers. Come over, and he goes, ring, your old man, did him to
come down? So I rang Dad, and Dad came down and downs and came out. We had a bit of a night just the boys, and then Dad was walking home and he goes, come out to the front. I want to speak to you. And we went out the front and I remember we're leaning it on my car and he goes, I've just had enough, and I thought he meant enough of his current relationship situation. So I'm like, well, mate, just finish it. And I like, our house was huge, so just come and live with me. And he's like, nah, nah,
I don't want to do that, he does. I just I've just had a gup full. Mate. I think I think I'm done, And I guess is weirdly computer like we'd had a few beers and I'm just trying to think you're done, You're done with what you know, And that's when I sort of started to what is he
done with this woman? Or is he you know? And so I gave him a heart and mate, you know I'm here, you know, like just he can come to me anytime you think about like this right, Like but this is a guy who was like the greatest Sharks player of all time, he was the CEO of the club. Like who does he go and talk to you know what I mean?
Like fucking hell, just send shivers down my spine there, mate, You're exactly right.
Wow, he's trying to talk to me and I didn't know, like this is before mental health was the trend. Not the trend, but the thing. Yeah. I think he was sort of like quite a catalyst towards that, you know, like everyone's like, holy shit, you know, like this is a CEO of his beloved club. He's got kids, he's got big grandkids.
He's got a lot to live for, you know, and yeah, who does he talk to you?
Yeah, so that warning went down. He's banging on my door and he goes, if he talked to anyone that I sort of get in his car and I sort of knew, oh, this is this is not good, Like it's I said, what's happening? He goes, mate, I was walking on the esplanade this morning, and he goes and there was a lot of people in Add's apartment and I've walked up there to find out what's going on, and he goes, I don't know how to tell you.
Maybe your dad's gone, you know. So I got there and there was like a cast of thousands around this apartment at this time, because word around corner. And that's why he was saying, that's Matt talked twenty one. It's Matt talked to anyone and I got up there and there was like two hundred people, like as soon as anyone had walked past the like his apartment on the ESPNAT something about going, Steve Rodgers has just died. He's he's in the stairwell, and then they wander up and
I just created this this crowd of people. I get there as the police get there and they go in and sort of surveyed the situation, and yeah, it just became as zoo. Anyway, I just asked me to, you know, do I want to identify the body. So I just went in there and just sat with him for a couple of hours just to talk to him and asked him what what did he do it for? And yeah,
didn't answer obviously, it was it was. It was tough, you know, I came out, It was even there was probably a thousand people outside the apartment block now and just people who love my dad.
Were you asking the questions that that you knew you couldn't ask?
You know, wait, and you know, why why didn't why didn't he tell me he was proud? Why didn't you ask? Why didn't you tell me he loved me? Why? You know? All those things? And I just laid on him to be honest, and hugged him. And then a funny thing that came out of the morning. It was he had a watch on that that I gave him, but I didn't give him. He wanted it. I said, mate, watch cost me fifte hundred bucks. Yes, I'll give you five
hundred for it. I said, all right, So I gave it to it and he never fregking paid me, and he had it on. I need to get back. I've still got the watch. I've still got it. I got his name and he's things in grave on the bottom. So yeah, it was a brooder warning.
And how old were you, Matt?
I was Jesus it was. I was thirty. I was thirty. He was fifty one. He was not quite fifty one. He just turned fifty on you. Yeah, it was. It was tough, like to'd be fifty years old, man, Like I just like I'm forty eight, I'm forty nine. I'm closer to forty nine and fifty now. I think, Man, my mom passed away at forty six and my dad at fifty. Man, I feel like my life just started.
I felt there was so much good stuff to happen, you know, I look at my kids and my grandkids, and you know, the life you've got ahead of us and my wife, and I just I felt the luckiest guy ever, you know, honestly, just I just can't fathom it, you know. But you know that like my old man, like, you know, if you wanted to beat Cranula in the seventies and eighties, you take out Steve Rodgers and it
was almost legal. So they talk about CTE man like, you know, when he had his jaw absolutely smashed from one side of his face with his other like, and it was what ended his career in Australia. Basically there wasn't even a penalty given, you know, like it's just like, what the hell he's just left laying on the ground. I'm sitting there as like a nine years old on
the ball boy. I'm watching my dad just walk off the field his jaw hanging on his chest basically and no penalty, and I'm just thinking, wow, I mean ends. But I looked at my old man. I thought he was the toughest bastard in the world in those days. Mate.
I just sat and you know, I.
Remember creeping in the dressing room may like it was a belmore Oval and my mom and my mom and my brother were sitting in the stand and halftime happens, and then the head of the ball boy that he knew how emotional I was about this whole thing, he goes, you don't you don't have to go out there for the second half or get other ones to other boys, and so everybody cleared out, and it was just my dad and the doctor in the dressing room, and I was out in the front, and he goes, you don't
have to go out. So I wanted to go into the dress room to see my dad because the boar boys went out in the dress room at halftime. So everyone goes out, and you could hear like the crowd roaring in the stand above you, like it was this whole concrete tand you could hear the murmur of the crowd, and it was like it was like a horror movie. I'm sort of creeping down this like concrete hallway to try to get in there to see how bad my dad is. When I opened the door and there was
just him. There was just him sitting on like a like a strupping table with and leaning up against a metal a concrete pylon, and a bandage around his head, holding his jawer, and I'm like and and he sees me, you know, like he sees me sick my head around the corner like not no what to do, and he sort of calls me over, you know, and and he couldn't talk, so he just sort of, you know, he taps the bench for me to jump up on the bench nextly, and he just he just grabbed me and
hugged me. So he was just really worried about how how I was. He didn't care about how he was. And you know those moments, like my mom and dad both did that in times when they were in a real bad way. You know. It just there was a lot of live in our family that just came out in funny ways. You know.
Yeah, you're there comfort. You find comfort in your children. You find a sense of peace that you can't expec playing in your children. And whether it's just the moment of them being there, a moment of just setting eyes on them, a moment of just them being at your side.
That's that's all we need, is parents. But you know, when you look back on things and you know, and your dad as he was and you now being a parent, you realize that the magnitude and the power of those moments and how important they are.
Yeah, and yeah, it's so right. I mean, I love it when my kids, when my kids is my oldest, my oldest kids are twenty eight and twenty five, and my my younger kids are eighteen and seventeen, So eighteen seventeen, it's almost like they're too cool to hang out with you that they're not. You know, they're great, you know. And my older kids, you know, I love saying, you know, my oldest boy, he's got his own stuff going on.
You know, he's a busy guy and works hard and got a family and I don't want to see you know, it's just the best. It's the best. And same with my daughter, you know that got their own lives and kids, and you know that is pretty special. Or when you see him and you have them all together, it's it's at a moment that I just cherished. But now losing losing dad that that way. Yeah, I don't we should upon anyone, you know, at that young, at such a young age, it's it's tough.
H Matt. When your father passed away, he was still playing, right, Yeah, how was that?
Uh? Well, you know, Ben, Ben that I was chasing him. You know when I say chasing him, I wanted to be him, you know, that was my life goal. I wanted to be Steve Rodgers sent me into a bit of a tailspin, to be honest. So I was like, well, do I really want to be Steve Rodgers? Do you know? Do I want to end up there? So I I just I didn't want to play anymore. So I basically told the war atas at the times, look, I don't know when I was back, I don't know if I'll
be back. And they were great, you know, Dave Gibson team manager, and you and McKenzie was our coach at the time. I like, mate, you just come back whenever you feel like you can, and we'll offer you all
the support you need. Doctor by the name of Sharon fla Hive, who was one of the greatest humans on the planet, would come and just spend time with me, you know, if she was the doctor of the Warrior Cars the Wallabies, and she just sit on my balcony and just talked to me, you know, and asked me how I was going, and just making sure I was okay. I reverted to putting anything into my body that would make me feel good and forget life. And I was
not in a good way at all. And she came to me and basically got to the point where she just got She just confronted me about it. She's like, what are you doing? You are ruining your life and you reckon your old man is going to be proud of this. And I'm like, yeah, it's a good point because you know, without someone like that in your life. And my wife didn't she didn't want to push me, you know, like because I was not in a good
space without someone like that in your life. If you live in a world like like I did, where you're a bit of a football star, you have a proofile. There's not too many people in your life who are going to tell you that that they're in your life, so they need to be pretty real, you know. But yeah, she just hammered me and made me realize. She goes back up training on Monday. She is I'm not going to take from the answer. This is the place that makes you happy. These are your friends who want to
support you. This is so I got the training and I just walked off halfway through it, and I just didn't want to be there. I'll I was unfit and it's not feeling it for a war chased after me, my teammate gave me a hug, made I'm just here, just not trying to not trying to force into anything, mate, but we love you, and he said we need you. So he said, when you're ready, we'll have you, you know.
And another week went by and I went back and got through a whole session and then worked on sort of my fitness and slowly moved my way back into the team. And I'll never forget the first game coming back, you know. It was at the Sydney Football Stadium and I think we're playing the Sharks maybe from South Africa. It would have been about thirty five forty thousand people. They're like it was back in the days when people actually attended rugby union matches in Australia, which was good
rug reunion matches I talk of. And I started on the bench and about twenty five minutes into the first half, I you know, got asked to go on and a man they announced me coming on the field, and the way that the crowd cheered just made me feel like I was in the right place. You know, it was a different cheer. It just lasted longer than what a
normal cheer would. And then my first touch of the ball, I made this mad break and then that just went bananas again and before he goes you home, mate, and I'm like, yeah, yeah, that just got me going again. And yeah, I just had a good back end of my career. And I did you know after that year, but I just felt like I just didn't want to be away from my family anymore, and Rugby was just
really taking me away from my family. You know. I spoke to my close mates at the Warrior Tars and said, you know, look, I just don't think I can do this anymore. I'm going to I'm going to retire. Yeah. They were like, yeah, it made it where you're at, that's where you're at, and you know, just out of the blue or made in mind. Said why don't you go and have a meeting with this guy such and such. He is the owner of the Gold Coast Titans. And I wanted to move. I really wanted to move out
of Cronella. I was living in Cronulla and I wanted to get back to Queensland, where I felt like home was and he goes, don't retire. You're too young to retire. He ThReD, go and speak to you, the CEO, and see if you can put a bill together for you to get your back up the resume. I don't want to play. It's not just that I want to move. I don't want to play anymore. I came back. I finished, I'm good, you know. And and he's a good, really good friend of mine, this guy, and I really respect him.
He said, just how to respect for me? Can you just go and have a meeting. I'm like, yeah, so I won had a meeting, and I can. I tell you the best way to go into a negotiation is not caring I And he's like, I'll pay you this if you come presented a great you know pitch, you know, like and I love the Gold Coast. And it was just like wow, you know, like, yeah, it sounds awesome. And he goes and he writes, and he goes, i'll pay you this, and side it over the table. And
I looked at it. I'm like, mate, if you pay me double, i'll consider it. And he goes, well, if I pay you double, what you sign a letter of intent? Now I'll really call the crazy thing was is my wife, you know, like her dad and stepdad are both barristers, and she's like, don't you sign anything in there, And I'm like, I'm not going to sign it. I don't want to play you anyway. I rang and I said, oh, I just so you know we're a movement of the Gold Coast. He said, you wouldn't sign anything. I said,
there's a lot of reasons, and our all dogs. I signed. Anyway, I came back to the Times. I actually ended up getting released and I came here yere earlier, so I actually, although I did get paid well to come to the Time, I took a huge pay cup to come and play the first year I played here. But it was the best move for me mentally, Like just everywhere I went with Cornella, it was just dad, Dad, dad and everybody
he knew. My dad like Cornella is very insula, Like it's like a little fishbowl and if you live there, and if you're a Rogers or you're Steve Rogers Matt Road, you cannot escape it.
And he has sworded up.
Yeah. Yeah, it just got too much for me. So I moved back to the Gold Coast. And man, I'll tell you coming back here and playing for the Titans. It was just it was such a it was like it was like a new lease of life, you know, and being able to raise my kids up here. You know, I grew up on the Gold Coast. I came here as a young boy, and I just my mum was
a born and bred Gold Coast girl. So she was one of thirteen kids, right, So I've got about four thousand cousins and they've got cousins of the Gold Coast. So it was just it was the best move for me mentally. And you know, my wife, although for the first she absolutely hated it. She's an Eastern Suburbs girl, so she was at that time made the number one shop at Pacific Fair. Was I think Target, She's like,
what have you done to me? She was the lady who's you know what runways, runways in Paris and Milan and you know, the biggest names in modeling. And she's like, Target, that's it. And I'm like, oh, yeah, get used to it. She loves it. She's not she's certainly not a snob, but she she was struggling to find her place in those first first view.
Awesome mate, but Matt it's been absolutely fascinating me. Thank you for sharing your story with us. Car To be able to play at the level that you play that and to be so consistent and smash your your your footy career as you did with everything that was going on, that just shows the resilience and the head game that you have. Really appreciate you coming on. Thank you for your time, legend and listen, Matt, thank you so much.
Keep pushing on, mate, keep staying strong. And last last question before we go, we have to be quick, but as you wanted to be your father, is there any of your sons that want to be Matt Rogers?
Well, I think my oldest son tried, but he did maybe you want to be a footballer, but realized that, you know, it probably wasn't for him. But my young my youngest son, who's Ailien, he's autistic, So Mat, he has taught me a world of things that got me involved in things that I would never have been involved in prior. So I'm so grateful for the lessons he's taught me, rather than the lesson teacher.
Brilliant mate. Love that what a way to finish Matt, You're gentleman. Thank you ever so much.
Mate's there.
Matt's memoir A Father's Son is out now. I link the details in the show notes. I appreciate you taking the time to listen to Headgame. If you enjoyed this episode, please feel free to share it with a friend. I'm at Middleton. See you again next time.