We'd like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which this podcast was produced, the gadigall people of the orination. We pay our respects to elders past and present. In this episode, Amenada shares her confronting first hand experience of war. There are discussions of rape, murder and abuse. Support is available through the links and phone numbers in the show notes.
It's nineteen ninety nine and we're with Amanata Conte Bijour in her family home in Sarah Leone's capital. As the civil war rages on. All houses surrounding hers have been burnt to the ground. It's been a particularly brutal, violent few weeks. Her bright yellow house is the only one that remains, and has become the safe place for her family, friends, and even strangers who have nowhere to go. Today, this all changes. They hear the voices of the rebels are
followed by a bash at the door. Despite everyone's best efforts to stay silent, the rebels know there are people inside and start yelling threats to burn the house down with everyone in it. Eighteen year old Amanata knows these aren't empty frets. She's watched it happen right in front of her. They are found and dragged outside by fifty rebels and child soldiers. Amanata clutches onto her father's hand. One of the rebels locks eyes with her and starts
heading towards her. I'm Att Middleton and this is head game today, turning harrow into hope. Thank you ever so much for joining me. Talk to me about you upbringing in Sera Leone and where you come from, and you know, did you have normal.
Bring My childhood was beautiful, It was beautiful. It was very special because I was raised by the most incredible human being, my father. So I grew up in what you would say in the west bubble like. My dad was very protective man. He raised us all all his children, and we as a daughter, we grew up very knowing that the girls are special, which is very rare in places like Africa, that the girls the men are treated differently than the boys. Ours was the opposite, and our
childhood was so it was just beautiful. We live sort of like an English kind of life because he traveled a lot to the UK and he loved that life, and so at home we just watched movies in the digestive biscuit where new balance all these things and watching James Bond movies that would come out, and it was just one of those places where I didn't grow that anything can hurt me. All of my siblings did think that way.
How many girls were there?
Six six and I have my two older sisters who went to the UK in ninety eighty just before were before I was born in ninety eighty and they lived there and then but he all most of the children were in the UK, but then I've traveled so when so because we were younger, he stayed with us.
So it's a very interesting story because we didn't we were not raised by our mother's So my dad, I'm not sure about his life the way it was raised. I think he made a decision to raise all his children. So we were alwaised by one human being, so we all kind of have the same mindset. And so growing up in cyrill Leon I grew up in the capital city of free Town, in a neighborhood called Kissi so, but I think from early my dad said, a place where even though we grew up very privileged, we still
grew up in a place where there was poverty. But we didn't know it was it was poverty. So even though it was protecting us, but we wanted us to live in a place.
And it was sincerely owned, right, yeah, necessarily owned Freetown. And you're right because you know there's places that you know are normal, and that seemed like quite up and coming, but then you take you turn the corners and you do experience extreme poverty, extreme proverty. But we didn't know that was poverty, but you didn't. But you didn't know because that was normal.
Yes, yeah, And I think he said that scene for us, for us to be able to live anywhere around the world, which is what we've done. My dad was just one of those men that would trow us in the most uncomfortable places. So I like being in the place that are that we call uncomfortably. So I think growing up in that sense, we've heard about the war. It's been going on from since nineteen ninety, but it never got into the capital city. But we always knew something was coming.
And what was it? Just a civil unrest? Was yes, a civil yes, a sort of government versus well, yes.
The soldiers and civilians. So it was started from Liberia because of the most people would have seen the blood diamond.
That's interesting from Liberia because people don't realize that that's where that's.
Where, Yeah, that's where, that's where it came from. So childs still all of course, and when you're coming from Liberria, the places that you meet in from Syrilli is the village, so where the diamonds are, So that's connor Bo, yes, so of course, So it took longer. It took about nine years or so for the war to enter the capital city, which is what the rebels were aiming for. But by then I think we're actually with the rebels. What we didn't know so when the war, when they entered,
it just felt like they came off the cloud. And as soon as we hear the sound. I remember it was school time and we hear the sound and we just knew.
So for since nineteen ninety, you know it's happening. You hear about it, but it's a very distant thing. You don't believe that it's really.
It was not really distant because we saw that part of the war or the kind of signature thing that was happening. They were amputating long sleeve and sleeve and all. So we saw refugees flying from Liberia and from the rural area to the city. Yes, and we knew what would happen to young girls, So the story was kind of very close to our heart, like we knew what was happening.
Did you ever think it would come to Freetown or did you think that Freetown was just quite strong?
I think that's a long time we did. We didn't think that it would, but then we did. But that cloud, yes, yeah, and we thought because every time they come a little bit closed, that the government to push back. So I think they used a different technique this time. So when it arrived, they were already in the city for months embedded, so it just they just as I said, just like from the cloud just falling. As soon as we hear the sound, everybody knew, like, yeah.
Take me back to that day. Did you get up to go to school or it was midnight?
It was around it was midnight, so we're sleeping and then we just heard the sound. So by the time we looked through the windows, you could see the smoke because one of the things they do to they burn people in the house, so everything was cloud and like smoke all around, so you can see people. Screw you can hear people screaming, and our house we had like
a kind of bullet to prove a tinted window. As I said, my dad was a businessman, so we had this protection so we could see people from the inside, but they could not see us, got you.
Yeah, anyone that you could see what was going on, what they couldn't see what was going Yeah, And.
It was one of those scene where you cannot stop watching because you can see what is being done to people. And my dad just quietly closed all the windows and just quiet hold at this stage eighteen.
Yes, so you're you're you intrigue, you want to know what's going on, you know you and again you're scared, right, You're hearing scared, You're hearing the screams, you're seeing the smoke. Yeah, I suppose you want to you want to check it out because you want to know if it's going to reach you door. Yes.
Well, also people anybody that have gone through war, you're you're you're past the world scared because you know you're in it. So I will not even think of the word scared. You're in it, so you don't feel what am I going to do? So my dad closing the door. It was a way of saying, we're all going to be killed here. He didn't want us running around like everybody was running because it was chaos, like what people experience during war, people abandoning their children, wars. It's very
vicious than what we see on television. You leave, you leave your children, you leave places, you jump on someone destruction. Yes, and your mind is our minds thinking surviving, and so whatever Dad, you need to do, you just do. You don't have time to think. So my dad just closed the door. And we grew up very disciplined, so we listen, of course, and just stay in and then keep going. But it was really strange because our house is massive.
It's big, the biggest house around the area, and was bright and yellow and for some reason, after it's been closed for long a while, we've been in the house for a very long time, and nobody knew it was it's really busy. It's one of those things that you see probably a movie. We did. We could not understand why all the houses are being burned but not ours?
Why Why do you think that was?
I think what I put it on. My dad was a beautiful man, was a good man. I felt like I do believe something was protecting us. I really do, because there was no way our house could not have been seen. It's very sort of iconic around the area. People knew our dad, they knew the life that we lived. But it was almost they were passing the whole time.
And it was bright yellow as well. Yes, it was mellow.
Yeah, And then a scene happened when a lot of people were running, but it all came and knocked at our house and my dad for the first time opened the door.
This was a refuge, Yes, sicking the refuge.
So we end up and it's three stories and split it so three stories as it's massive, so we end up having over five hundred or even a thousand people living in our house. But even for those weeks, still the rebels were passing by. It's really busy every time I talk about it because it almost feel like those middle hobe.
So they take over the over freeze, but they're just bypassed.
It just passed the house and it was quiet. It was just simply quiet, and there was a lot of food because what my dad would do most of the way we grew up, we buy a lot of rice. We have a storage of right so that's how we lived our life. Storage of everything, so they were food for people to eat. And then it just came around the time when the government was really pushing and then we heard one of the rebels just said who has this house? Who is in this house? And then we knew straight away.
So did you start to feel safe? Did you start to feeling like, no one's gonna knock on our door, We've we've been given a pass or such.
I think we grew up in the Tennessee that our dad was almost god. Yeah, of course, so he made us feel that way, so there was no fear. But we saw we were still looking what was being done outside. We're not allowed to look at the window, but we were still looking because he was downstairs. I was in the middle floor. But we were seeing things that were happening.
And what type of things would you see?
Well, really the amputation they acting people long slaving, short sleeve people being burned, and the long.
Sleeping short slaves is explained it The short sleeve is above the elbow and long sleeve islow.
Yeah, so you get to choose. Yeah, we're seeing women were pregnant and being asked, do you think you're having a boy or girl and then they were split. So we saw, Yeah, they.
Were playing these huge mind games, mind games.
Because they were rebels who were their kids. There were young shoulders through so it was their mind has been with drugs.
Yeah, they've been drugged that they've been inductrinated, brainwashed years and they've been with alcohol drugs.
Yes, and most of these boys have been they've been trained to kill even their own parents.
Yes, they've been given the power too.
So they were the most one. You should be scared of the younger ones that they're older.
Yeah, because unstable.
Yeah. So when when we heard that voice, it's almost that annoying that Okay, we're going to be out and we're going to be killed. So it's you come. I think in life, you come to a place where you make peace with where your your life is. Yes, and I think that way of knowing. And we're calling everyone. Next to our house, there was a there was a land that was open and everybody came out and my dad, I was only my dad's hand. We jump over the fence and then we.
So take me back. So you get a knock on the doors, it was.
Just that noise. Who is in the south and then a few of them start acting, so it was one person out of curiousity is one of the rebels start acting, and then the others start acting. And now they got really cute's like almost like there's a house here.
That hasn't been touched.
Yeah, And then they asked if you don't open, will burn the house. So that's when my dad opened, of course, and and they asked us to go to the outside field. We went, and then they start burning that they we have this brand leather chair. They start burning the chair to burn the whole house. And then one of the rebels asked who is who owned this house because quite a big it's a.
Yes, it's a beautiful house.
And they told politics politicians so and then somebody said mister Conte. Yeah, yeah, they call him pa content, so they know a lot of people know his name. And then somebody was giving description of who he is. And then one of the rebels said, I know him. He is the man that has started to build a hotel and gave it off to refugee to stay there. So my dad used to build it was building a hotel that he stopped building. Refugee stay there through and then
they spoke for his character. Yeah, and did the rebel like that? They yeah, they stopped burning the chair. They put the chair off. Wow. Yeah. And we went to the field and my dad had parkinson. I didn't know what Pakistan was, so he said was shaking. And then I was holding his hands and and I locked eye with one of the rebels, and I knew straight away was coming for me. Oh wow.
So yeah, they're in the field. You got your your hand in the hand with your father.
So we're all standing in the field. So everybody has come out. It's like a thousands, like a lot of people.
And we they go down the line, don't they Yeah.
Well, all my hands. We know they were going to pick your girls. So I knew.
I was why did you Why were they picking young girls?
They choose young girls and mostly virgin to be used as a sex slave. And I see human shield mostly that's they tend for them to pick. It's kind of like a spirit as superstitious that they will win the war. So well us holding my dad hand, we thought they were going to burn all of us or should or because we have them do we have the rebels right in front of us. So I was just standing there and just ready to go with him. But as soon as one of the rebels looked at me, I knew.
I just knew it was this possession of Luke. And when he as soon as he altered the word you come, he looked at me, you come here. I let go of my dad's hand.
Why did you let go of your dad's hand to protect him?
Yes, it was the first time I knew how to protect someone. And once I let go, I did not look at his face. Now because I knew everybody that knows my dad knows my dad about his children, So I just walk away, did not have a look at his face.
And that's your protection.
Luckily, the guy that took me walk away because he had had four guilts or the girls that were standing waiting for him, so he had four guilts that he had kidnapped. So I joined that group and any walk away with me, and you don't look back. No, I never looked back. I still try to picture even now most of the time when I share my story, to see what position he would have been. And and yeah, way he didn't move. I think he was just stuck or.
Yeah, yeah, well maybe as a as a father, maybe he knew that if you, he would have probably got himself killed, you killed, and all of his children killed. Yeah, and it's a decision that you you made right not to because any normal child, you think, would have just held on tighter. Yeah, right, because but you made a decision to text your family, and he probably done the same him to protect you, because like you said, the rebels were so unstable that if you look, probably shut you down.
Mostly were asked the daughter to shoot or the rap the daughter in front of the father. So that was one of the reason too. So there was a lot of scenario that I knew of because of the history of the war. So I knew that if he fought, they would either asked me to shoot him, or shoot him or rape me in front of him. So there was a lot of things that would have happened. So and I felt like even not standing, not keeping me there to look because I would have turned or look
at his face, that was a protection there too. That was guide me through that he took me and walk away with me.
What happens next, I.
Still don't remember how long I was kidnapped for. We start walking up the hills because you know civilian high it's called lion mounting because of the hills to start walking off. And again it's the acceptance this is it, this is live. Because there were bombs going on, there were a lot of things going on. It was very intense time because the government was really pushing back. So and mostly what the rebels would we take civilians and put them even give us, give guns, so the government thinks.
That you are by seeing your weapon, I think you're yeah.
So it was all surviving. We had to go up the bush and we have to change our clothes to camouflage with the green. The green where so if you wear something white or something bright will shoot you. So we have to wear something green or dark. So if there's an alicopter then they don't see where we're going. So for all those things that you don't grow up with,
you just instantly lean to do wow. And because there's dead body next to you, there's somebody just fall being shot, so you don't you don't have a second to think. You have a time to think.
So you've been ripped away from your family, How you've been ripped ripped away from your your your dad? What's going through your mind? Is it? Obviously the first bit
was protection, Just get me out of here. So, yeah, you're taking attention away from your dad really and your family when you're walking up what how does your life flip on its head all of a sudden the realization of you know where you where you're sleeping, where you're living, just put put it in put it in our heads, where where you were.
The first time that we took so the girls that it was really engraved with the girls that he had kidnapped. These are girls that I knew from school, but we're not friends, so and we we didn't start moving right away. We had to settle in our house up the hill. That night is when he started, like the rebel that kidnapped me, Darahmi that was his name, start calling each girl in the room and and sort of rapping each girl as he called them in.
The room, including yourself.
Yes, so, and I know for sure most the girls I could hear the voice, so you just know when it's your turn. So so I was brutally my first experience was between five or six men, because after you call some of his crew and then just woke up being fainted, and then you then you as soon as that finish, you start running again, so you don't have time to think, you start. So as soon as that same finished, he knew straight away. So that's when his pos his obsession became because then I hadn't been was
my first experience, So he became really possive. He didn't want the others anymore, so he became really really possive. But what was also interesting, my brother Ali, who was very protective of me, saw that Darami had took me. So he was following me little by little like yeah, yeah, so he vollowed un till he followed me. And so at one scene when they wanted to almost shot him and he just said, that's my sister. So but because Darami was obsessed with me, he accommodated my brother.
Wow. And so they were gonna they were.
Going to kill. Yeah, they mostly killed the men or used them to be training to be a soldier or carry to stop this story.
Yes, I saw that they were strong and yeah, if not, they just put them him as an example on the fire.
So my whole experience, I was with my my, my brother and he so.
What did they do to grab your brother and put in with you?
In with me? But Daramy had the three girls, the three friends that I know, which I talk about in my book. And then my brother just joined in. Well, he knew my brother sort of for somebody to just volunteerly followed. He knew that my brother loved me. He loves me. And then so his obsession become became more like very like really deep obsession. And my brother most of the time had to witness a lot of things that was done. So you would play really nice if I was nice and beaving, but you're.
Just manipulating you.
Yeah.
Yeah, And how long does this go on for?
For? About? As I said, I still don't remember. I thought it was three months, but my friends that was being kidnapped with there's a lot of things that I remember, I said it was six months.
So I stay at this stage, you got no appreciation for time. You're living in a nightmare.
Sometimes you feel like you're safe I being with them, because you don't know when you get into when you come across the ecomok the government, if they're going to shoot you, if they're going to kill you so and you have to go. And then with the rebels, if they find out that you want to escape, they kill you. God,
they think you're a traitor. So you're almost between that scene of if you could escape, you can, but mostly there was no much escaping because it was as I said, it was one of the most intense time for the past nine years of the war. Wow.
And what year was that when you got When you got, I was in nineteen eighty nine, nineteen ninety nine. Wow. Yes, So you're you know, they've gone into Freetown, They've they've taken over free Town. Do they need to move much? Now? Are they moving you from location from location to location?
So sometimes we're staying there in a place for like one week or two weeks, and then they can tell because they go out hunting and they can tell when the government is getting closed and there were more. So you move us trying to stay one say, and then you move years. So you know when movement is happening. You can hear the gardens all the time, but you know when it's coming closer.
So you know you're living a nightmare. You're you're moving along your food, you're just sleeping the house. How are you sleeping? And you're just sleeping in one room, all of you together.
On you you just sleep if you can, you sleep on a rock, you sleep on the store, you sleep wherever if you if you end up going to a place where his house that everybody occupied those houses because those people have moved out. And then food sometimes you go to a build, you end up in a village where there's a lot of goods and you eat so whatever you can. Sometimes there were weeks that we didn't have food and you just it survived.
And it was the r u f are Uf and what what was there? You know, what was the goal? They want to take over the gold and the diamond minds or was there.
Was diamond diamonds and so everything has been corrupted. So they are fighting against the government and that it was more between civilians or have become rebels and so just that are fighting. Some soldiers have joined in that we're fighting with the government. And again that trade came to all charld Stale or from Liberia the president at the time. So it was more the resource, where the resource is going and what how they can get more resources sell it and where how they can get the guns?
Yeah, exactly through dim Yeah, because they took over all the diamond minds, didn't they And then they started buying some serious weapons and they were gathering huge momentum. You know, you look at the r U, the West Side Boys, they were that you know, they'd taken over, right, and they're only when the more they're taking over, the more money they're getting, the more weapons they're getting, so ultimately
building an army this nightmare. Does it become like you said, you know, you feel like you're more protected when you're with them. Does it does it flick into the norms? You think that this is going to be me for the rest of my life. I think you make peace, You make peace with with being the way that you're treated and thinking that this.
Is just I didn't. I didn't make peace with it. I was very I think with everything that was happening, I worry about my father, my father was I had.
No communication with your father, no contact.
Communication with my father. But I don't know why was everything was happening to me when my dad was was my main focus.
But so that was like a beacon of hope, that kind of and thinking.
Like where easy easy, okay? Did he died after I was gone? We're very close to him. So but also I think every day you start to adjust, even people, even people who are kidnapped, even if it's in the city or anywhere. And I've seen stories before in the US where people are you start to just you start to almost pretend to make that's your home. You start to make it as how you create homes. I can I can see myself just cleaning because my dad was
everything used to be tidy and fixing the bed. You start of accepting, even if you don't want to say acceptance. So it's it's.
Amazing mechanism, isn't it. You almost go in flicking that survival mechanism of adapting and slowly accepting but knowing that there's a hope.
Yes, I I don't know. For some reason, I just knew I was going to see my dad. That was something that I don't know how, but I knew I was going to see my dad. Mass situation was in the word when you say the word impossibly, something I don't see in my life anymore. But I could not have been I could not have been able to run away from this from this man. But then through that time with my friends that was kidnapped with we were I went to Christian school, so the Bible was our
only hope. So we started reading a bible. We had a pocket bible given witness give. So faith and my dad were the center of how and I navigate to things you can't ask why you look around it's all women, young girls. So uh, but my faith keep me going and and knowing that I would see him, So that was Yeah, that was something that That's something I've told on to always.
Yeah, And when was the the next time you saw your father?
So when I saw my dad. Uh, we had run out of food within it for weeks and the government and the rebels were making sort of arrangements. Yes, we've not heard about. It's really quiet, and a really terrible thing had happened with one of with with me. One of the rebels who Colboot. His nickname was cold Boot. It was one of the most vicious ones. Something horrible had happened between between him and me. I had come to trust him because he said his wife was called Aminata,
so I became really trust him. And the rebel that kidnapped me, Darami, was scared of Cold Boot, so he took me saying that he was going to protect me from Darami. But then something really horrible happened between us a night. But I could tell I felt safe with him. But there was a time because I have not really fully developed, even though I was eighting, I had not fully really developed. But I could tell there was a time when he looked at me, and I knew it was a look of protection.
When he knew that look when when you were failed and you locked eyes and when he dragged.
Down, I had that sense. I'm like, I knew that was a predator kind of look. So so something horrible happened between me and him, and it felt. It's really incredible how even the most evil people can feel guilt. He felt that he took something because his wife name was Aminata. He was protecting me at one time, but then it took something. And the next morning I could see that for the most vicious rebel was a shame.
It was really it was really incredible. So then I heard that they were getting young kids to go for the exchange. And then but what he did was because he was a shame. He handed me back to Daramy.
Wow.
Yeah, so when he hadn't when he handed me, because Daramy is obsessed with me, got really angry that I have been with this person, with this rebel, So he got really, really angry, so just made the situation even.
Yes, I remember, if you could get any worse.
Yeah, I remember being in this room any and then I remember that I'm being angry and said, you run away from it because she had food. And then he fired shot, about seven or eight shot on my feet. I do not know how. Nothing touched me. His intent was for me not to run away anymore. Then he got really angry, so he walked away because he was angry, so he walked away, and he asked me to go to the next building to wait for him. And I remember my dear friend who lives in the UK, Francis,
who I was with. I remember looking at Francis. I said, oh, I heard they're going to release some children, and they said yeah, and I said, I'm gonna go.
And this was the sort of like the peace agreement that they're trying to give us. This this we're releasing.
But I've just heard this about a few minutes ago. And for Francis, Francis knew my circumstances, and she cried and I knew where she was crying because it was impossible. But I don't know why I said it. I don't know why I said it because I knew it was impossible. And I said to her, I think I'm going to go, and then she cried and then I walked away less
than one minute. I'm walking away. That ram the guy that took me that night called me and because of his git, yeah, his guilt, and he said, do you want to go? And I just and I nod my head. And because that REMI.
Has walked away, You're gone.
It was just the most miraculous thing. And he didn't come till late. The army did not come to He thought I was waiting for him in his unit, and then I left. But the most beautiful part of his story, my brother had seen me leave, so he went and bypassed and followed, and then one of the rivers caught him and then he pointed, that's my sister. And then they were trying to give us questions, both differently to see if the story is match. And the guy that
was doing it, he said, what's your name? And I said, I mean not a content and he said who is like just a small country. And I started telling him about my dad's hotel and stuff, and he said I know him. So I was released with my brother.
I love the story of your brother. So he's got a constant eye on you and he's going forward, probably protecting you. Wow. So the rebel lets you.
You then go to a group of rebels so that we have to do an exchange. It's one of those things that you see in the movie. We were in the middle of the street. It was the first time they were doing the exchange, and they had to be no gon fire, so and we had to walk towards the government and then they released some full and medication.
It was peaceful, and they took us to the capital city and there were thousands of parents just which in their child can be among those seventeen or twenty one children, and everybody was just in the street and free time, just celebrating. It was almost unreal. I don't sometimes I think it's real. And they took us to the government where they echo they sold just at the camp. So my father found that I was alive on television because
what had happened. The rebels gave us, gave me the letter to give to the government about the demands, so I had to be on TV. And so that's when my friends and my dad found out I was on television. Everybody was watching it. Everybody was with their neighbors. So the line of all the girls that they all their children. I was being released and my brother was with me, and yeah, and then we had to return home. My dad was just not the same. He was really in a in a he was the only person that had
two children that was released. Well, he was never the same. He was gone, and I could just hear him softly crying, and then he just starts just start breaking up, breaking up. He didn't know how to celebrate. He knew something had been taken and he felt like he failed. And it's the most painful part in my story. Now, what was done to me?
Seeing this strong man that he once left just a shadow of himself. Yeah, such a wow. I'm getting emotional as well because it's so you're back with when do you actually you know, you know your father? Like you said, it felt like he felt like he fouled you. You're seeing a shell of a man. What happens there after?
I feel like it was almost gone. I almost felt this transition up. And I was a very swell child and very I was very sicky and very kind of weakened everything. And I actually feel like my dad's strength transformed on in me. He became really weak. I became strong. I really believe that, because all night I could hear him cry, and he cried a lot every night. So I had to leave syrillly on to go to Guinea because my kidnapped. We knew where my house was and
was going to look for me. I knew that, And because the piece went really smoothly, we knew that it was not going to be any sort of accountability or as who come live in peace. So I had to flee to Guinea Kunakri to meet my mom. My mom lives in Guinea, and I didn't see my dad until a few months after. He was going to Guinea to get a flight to go to London because he had
to he had cancer. We'll find out he had cancer, and he had the packings in And still even I spent time in Guinea, he was never he could never look at me in the eyes so much.
Yeah, I can I can imagine being a father myself. I can only only imagine what he's been through. You know, we are here to protect, we're here to provide, and you know there's not my way simple beings fathers. You know We just want to what's best for our children, especially when it comes to our daughters, because that's you know, the most vulnerable part of being a father is that. So you go and live with your mother? Did did you have a relationship with your mother?
What was my life? I didn't memories, that's what I think.
So when you went there, what was that like?
You know my mom?
Because that's another huge change, just being reunited with your family. You know, you see your father, it's destroyed everything, and then all of a sudden you're having to go and live a stranger again, your mother because she wasn't part of your She was.
Not part of my upbringing, not because of choice. My dad took use. But when I went, when I went to Gidea, seeing what my dad did of serving helping people, I took a few girls with me that stayed with my stay at my mom's plait because everybody was looking for shelter. My mom was a Guineaan woman that has their own house, So we had a few community that came and stayed with us.
So after all this that you go through, you you're still thinking about other people.
Yeah, I think children see what the parents are and they become that I saw my dad was fully that serving and helping. So I just took friendly girls in the neighborhood that didn't have family in gear me because they would have gone to refugee camp, and my mom just accommodated them. But my mom also was trying to make sense of what had happened to me, because I have when nine in our family, but I'm the only child to my mom, and so she she doesn't know what to do with the whole things.
And especially doesn't know. You know, you can't just tell by like a look on your face. You know, I'm constantly I can tell when my child's down just by looking at them when something. And she she was just trying to figure this.
She was trying to figure and I was. And the more I move away from my dad, I missed my dad. So the whole time I was thinking of my dad too. But also we don't when those things happen, especially people have gone to you don't you don't know. You don't talk about these things. You're talking language there that she would have known what happened to me. And when you can't, you don't know, you don't communicate those things. There's no
your mind is sort of move. You survive and what you want to do is leave and continue because these people around you've gone through probably was or the same. So so we never talked.
You never talked, and you just you just held the senior in yourself. And then how did Australia come about? Then?
Well, Australia came about because my story was on television. So when the UNH chair in Guinnie heard of me, they went straight on protective mode because they knew that I was a girl on TV. And also I've heard that Darami had come to the city looking for me, so they wanted to get me out. But I had choice to go to America, Canada and the UK, and I didn't want to go to any of those because there was a big community there and we were part of the first group of refugee to come to Australia.
And I've never heard of Australia before at the French Day Australia, so I thought it was Austria. Yeah, So then I asked the un guy at the time, Sinai. I still remember it was African American tall and who was working at the UNHA, and he was very protective of me, and I said, what is that place? And then he just said, oh, it's far and the program, as you know, Australian program takes longer, and it was encouraging me to come to the US or the UK
because it was more fast the program. So I said no, I want to wait for coming to Australia and he said why because I didn't want people to know my story. I wanted people to help me because I needed help. But then again, I was raised by a father who trust in the most uncomfortable places. My sisters went to Scotland and went to boarding school, so we were raised by not being fearful. So then I decided to come to Australia in two thousand.
Was it exciting news to you or was it just a case of I've just got to get out of here my mom?
Was the case of me getting out my mom and she could understand why I couldn't live earlier with the UK myself. I think I don't know. I think after the war I went to a phase of forgiveness and I started making peace with my life and what how well forgive the I think I went to boarding school before the war. It was I was a Christian school, so I land. One of my favorite stories, the productan Son, So I used to tell my dad that story a lot, and I knew I had a sense, even though I
didn't understand it. I knew forgiveness was about me, it was not about them. So that made me really light. So wherever I was going to go, I think Australia just came up on the map because I've never heard of it. That's why I wanted to come. But anywhere else I would have been, I knew that I was
going to be fine. I knew that I'll be fine, and so the excitement for Australia was not really exciting committed to overseas because I lived that kind of life back home, So it was it was not anything that really I would not say excitement. And I was not fearful, even for the person that was looking for me. There was a fear had gone for some reason. I don't know how, and I think I was just looking forward to life like I wanted to. I knew that I
had thought. I was trying to understand how I had thought to survive, and I still can't make sense of it. But I knew that if I had to go six feet it's going to be we living life large and fully. So that was going to be wherever, even if it was going to be in Afghanistan. I was going to make sure I leave fully, and I think that would give my dad peace to know that I was not a victim and something that's been taken away. But I was not broken. I had been raped, things that happened
to me, but I didn't feel broken. I never wanted Still now I don't feel broken. I feel whole. I feel I feel proud all the time of the person that I am, and I had that, but I just didn't know how to articulated. But I knew when I walk in the room, I am present, I am there, I am supposed to be there. And my dad will always say, if you if somebody doesn't like it, they can live. But you're the most important person in that room.
But you're not important than anybody else. So a lot of things I didn't have the language for, but we just knew that I was going to leave it.
Yeah, but yeah, you knew what you want, how you want to. I knew I wanted to show how I wanted you wanted to and you've done that through through you, right, through through your actions. And when was the last time you saw your father.
I went to see him in London in two thousand and three because we knew it was going to pass. So I went to sick and goodbye to him, and yeah, and.
It was it was it was their words exchanged with your father now because I'm.
He just smiling. It's whole continents changed when I arrived. Yeah, we just spent time and I tell him how I was living my life in Australia and my faith because a government mostly family, but I became a Christian. So I was telling him all the story and he has this cheekiest smile that you always have. In three days with him and he went to board. Yeah, he was pretty sick. He was very sick. We had to put a lot of clothes on him because they were not
let him travel. But I think my whole family thought I was going to be the broken one when he passed. Yeah. Everything, I think, everything about my relationship since the war, my family had been surprise is because I was always the sick at child. And so when my when he even when he passed, because he went back home in serially on and he passed away, I didn't cry. I just felt this beautiful, this liberation that he was at peace, but he was he was in hell being on earth.
But like you said, and you mentioned it a couple of minutes ago, you didn't want your dad to feel like that you were a victim. You almost drawn his strength, to be sure, because otherwise, you know, I can imagine from a father's standpoint, if if what happened, you know, broke here and it's going to break you and it's going to take down the whole, then yeah, so you're that, you're that solid foundation. You're almost taking over from his role.
Yes, right, is.
What it felt like.
It does. It still does every every time. It is my guiding injury and everything that I do, how I talk to people, how I treat people, are.
Sure and you do. You you've come over to Australia, talk about treating people and talk about still being that pillar of positivity and strength for your father because you've got the amnatam maternal foundation. Tell me about that.
Well, when I give birth to my daughter in twenty twelve and I almost lost her, like we almost died, and I've never heard the word maternal. Hell, I've never heard those words before I was kept at the hospital and for four days and did a case study on me, and it was very interesting. The doctors were talking not to me, but they were talking about me. So I was picking up the words that we're saying. Four days later, I went home in google meturnal health and syreally and
come up. And I always remember my dad will always say to whom much is giving, what is required, but not how much. So the fact that I was in Australia, a refugee, was in a public hospital, were just working in retail. But I had become an ambassador for u n H Chair and I just thought, well, I'm privileged. If I can have seven doctors in the room to make sure that I survive, I should be able to
do something. And I love storytelling. So I just asked anybody that I could meet with those platform from unhhair and nobody could say no to my friend and everybody. I just kept up calling meetings upon meetings. But it was not to set up a foundation. It was just I come from a war zone. Unfortunately is going to continue. But the fact that we birth life, women birth life phenomenal. How could we allowed in the world when we talk about women's right and human rights allowed women to die
just because for me that didn't make sense. So after three years of research, and the professors at uns w knew that was not giving up because my son after words, and I was showing up. I was calling meetings. It was very interesting because I would get all these professors in the room and with speaking language, I have one percent of what they're saying, and I just shake my head.
End I've calling the meeting. And then finally three years together, yeah, three years later, like she registered them, Like what does that mean? So everything has just been a larning and I think we all have our strength. My strength is connecting people. And I have brilliant people around me. I don't need to be them. They can be all the academic and I can be the fun one.
And yeah, exactly, you're almost piecing the vision in your head with you know, bringing people together.
And everybody told me I thought I was mad, and I now I look at myself. I was mad because I was saying I want to be the hospital I want. I was saying all these big things and I didn't know how complicated it is to build an organization in Australia working in Africa. If you're not you and you're not uni safe. I did not know, and I didn't want to know because I just got like, well, why should I not do it? Why should we not do it? It was just so if it's not being done, why
not we do? So it was more what of that? And it was heartbreaking that nobody knows about cyrillion and nobody knows about the issues. So it's really out of I don't know if you can call it passion and the idea of serving. I always wanted to serve. That was also anything that I was going to do in this world, even the way I show up for my friends, my kid's we're here. Whether we want to agree or not, we're serving each other.
It's not being liked. So for me, that's the only way we're going to progress in life. That's the only we need each other. Yeah, you know.
And when I look back what I've done already, and sometimes I marvel at it. We just came back from CYRILLI and I look at myself like, oh my gosh. And the saddest part imagine if I didn't do it. Yeah, And I look at it like what I've done, what we've done with the foundation they miss out on people
where people don't do because of what somebody think. I think that's the saddest part for me in humanity, in human life, that because somebody thinks you cannot do it, I would have missed out because nineteen nine point nine percent of people said I could not do it, and.
I've been That's why you say that you don't believe that anything is impossible, and you don't use that word it is. Really I've got the same mindset of that. You know, I havn't done so many things and seeing so many things. It's like nothing is impossible.
It's like what dad said. The person that says it's impossible, it's not or they're both right. So if you if you said it's impossiblely you're right, absolutely absolutely. And how's the foundation going? Is its strength to strength? It's going from strength to strength? It is it's a lot of it's it's a lot of joy. I get more than I give, to be honest, but it is. It is difficult because aust so far off Africa, yeah, the UK you need in Europe, in the US, yes, that's the problem.
Yours are so bloody far away.
So the more for that they are the more they lack of interest. Like this morning, I had a meeting with a university in the US that found heard of me and the tracement. I will never have that in Australia. Yeah, so it is difficult for that, but I think my mission is to make sure I change that and after that gradually, patiently and ask for grace. But at the same time I have to be realistic that women are dying one in seventeen women and children. It's the highest
in the world. It's the most dangerous place for any woman to give birth, even worse than refugee camp. And if it's an organization like myself, like I mean at a maternal foundation with one staff can do what we've done. Imagine if we are one person of Australia just jumping
on board, we've done incredible work. But I also have to be realistic that as much as I'm being patient, I have to open to international aid to to do what we're doing, because in Sydney alone, or in Australia alone, I'm the only organization that I know office working in Africa in maternal health. And this is different of course from the UK. I'm the only black person that has founded African person that has founded and run and on
for profit. Wow, that's very especially in Australia and it's everywhere.
And well, do you know what, Hopefully you've kick started something that they need to start somewhere, right and you've been that stubborn and I don't need to finish it at all.
It can pass on to someone. It's really the issue day is really terrible. It's it's hopeful. There's a lot of hope that things can be done. We walk with a lot of teenage pregnancy girls. Syrian didn't have the highest teenager teenage pregnancy because of Ebola. There was on schooling for two years.
So and that was the first pandemic. Yeah, a lot of people say, you know there was a pandemic COVID was Boler was a pandemic because everything got shut down there you couldn't get it. And I was us, Yeah, yeah, I was. I was stuck out and Surah enduring during the boler pandemic, and yeah it was. It was totally different to what I experience with the COVID pandemic. But what I love about you is you use your life
experience in such a positive way. And I know that your father is sitting here, and I know it's because of him that you're you're like that, But that takes a certain mindset. What how do you How do you do you stay so positive? Do you?
Are you?
You cut things out that? Are you just right? I'm living life. I'm just grateful to be here. I've got my guardian angel my shoulder, which is my father, and I'm just going to push on and do good for other people because co to not be to be as selfless as you are with what you've been through, that is phenomenal. It's it's inspired, it's inspirational what goes on in your mind on a day to day basis in my.
Mind, I think I come to accept that acceptance to be honest, like life is never going to be perfect every single pace, even if you have other in the world, there is something that's happening. It's not anything personal. Life will continue to happen, and that's the acceptance for I think in the wayst it's very different to we have this illusion that things have to go this way. If you have cancer, I mean something, you did something. It's just understanding that this is the life that we live.
Things will happen. And then making a decision that while it's happened, where things are happening, what are things that you can focus your mind. So if I have a situation going with work, I spend ninety percent of my time where the solution is or what is happening and then what is not happening because I do not have a control. And I always find yeah, I always find out that when I'm focused on that this is actually happening,
like life is making it happen. So there's there's certain ways that I've walked my mind if I'm going through things. My husband is a person I don't I tell only after I've overcome it, because he is the person that wants to protect me. And I actually talk to my kids a lot since we're babies. Even in the back seat, I will tell my kids, oh I'm mad, this is this up. And so my daughter and my son twelve years old in ten I talk to them a lot. And kids are just brilliant and how they can come
up with things so adaptable. So yeah, and when there's a situation going, I find I find instead of blaming and I'll say, okay, world role because did I play? Because we have it doesn't matter how much that hurts me. I would have contributed for something to have. So there's a lot of techniques that I do that I've become a lifestyle for me. I just don't dwell on the things that cannot change. I really, I really don't don't. Well, I don't forget it, but I found out I work itself out.
Wow.
Yeah, Well, let's finish on your book, Rising Heard. Tell me about it. You've kindly brought me a signed copy, which I'm going to dive into on my on my journey back to to home Rising Heart. Why did you write it and and tell me what it's about?
Briefly, Well, it is about the story that I've talked about my life and the way I was brought up, and the reason why I wrote it it was because I wanted to people to understand how African grew up. I'm being in Australia being asked poverty all the other questions and asked about my dad, my grandfather, things that
I larned, my brother. So it was for that reason, but also most importantly, I knew that my country has been forgotten and I felt like the way I was raised was the preparation for me to be able to tell my story with no shame, no guilt, and I talked about my story because it's mine, and I embraced it. I didn't like what was what happened to me, but I'm not afraid of it whenever it shows up. So I wanted to do it in the place of the other girls and the women that were kidnapped, people who've
gone through things and all that. You don't have to sometimes tell your story, but you can't escape your story. You escape you can you can never escape it. And I think that's why we are stuck. I don't feel stuck. I feel liberated. I feel free because whenever it shows up and I say hi, yeah, and I recognize it, and I know I would probably not be here if I didn't go through that. It's not a thing that you want to go through. But we can make something good out of something.
It's always positive, to be fair, it's always if.
You find.
There's always a rainbow, and courageous enough to dive into that negativity and look for it.
There's a positive and the negativity. It's really the story you tell yourself. So it's what you tell yourself. And when I I said I've never thought of I don't really I don't think of my story until I talk about it, and then I forget about it. But wherever I am, I am with my story, and my kids will know my story, and it's a story of millions of girls, and it can liberate because a lot of people reach out to me Sie, thank you for sharing. But I didn't. I didn't want it to be just
about what happened to me. I wanted to be about my childhood. I want to talk about my dad, the father five got the important of fatherhood because I actually believe that m if we stayed with our daughters or even our sons, like they can be better. We need more than ever. So yeah, so there was a lot of pizzis. So you got a refugee party, get ap bringing part, and you get a hopeful part in and joy.
You know, and at the end of all of it, we've got hope and.
Joy and not happiness.
Joy rising hearts. Right, go out there and read it because people are going to get the you know, the general story from this podcast. But if you want to go into details, go and go and grab rising heart and best of luck with that. I wish you nothing but hope and joy. Thank you, thank you so much for joining me on headgame. To find out more and support the Amanata Maternal Foundation, head to Amanatamaternalfoundation dot org. I'll also link the details in the show notes. I'm
Att Middleton. Catch you again next time.