This episode of Headgame was recorded on gaddigal Land. This episode contains discussions of sexual assault. If this raises any issues for you, support is available through the links and phone numbers in the show notes.
It's a chilly day in London as a young girl stands waiting for the bus, dressed in a plaid skirt over the knee, socks and blazer. She appears to be a local schoolgirl to most passers by. In reality, the innocent looking teen is twenty nine year old undercover police officer Danny Brook. She's in her tenth year with the Metropolitan Police. Today she's part of a sting hunting a predator accused of more than one hundred assaults on children.
Just as Danny receives a call that the operation is being aborted, she's grabbed from behind and thrown to the ground. A convicted sex offender overpowers Danny and exposes himself.
Back up swoops in.
Danny would soon leave the force after putting her life in jeopardy day after day. I'm Att Middleton and this is head Game Today. What it takes to live a double life from former undercover officer Danny Brook. Danny Brook is a former undercover police officer, which we're going to dive into in a second, but also now known for the Channel four series Hunted.
So Danny is great to have you on. How are you.
I'm good, Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.
Now, Danny, let's go back to your younger days. What enticed you to become a police officer. What is your family life like? Were you surrounded with police officers? Is that run in the family? How does that look?
It's a bit of a weird one. Actually, where I grew up. I grew up. I was born in a London, which obviously police are not. You don't join the police fIF from East London. We grew up in Essex. Again, you don't join the police if you grew up in Essex. My mom's found. My mom's one or thirteen, so she's got thirteen siblings, she's the youngest and they were of Sicilian descent. Now that also doesn't bode well with policing. They police themselves, they're very protective. So yeah, it definitely
wasn't from my mom's side at all. But my dad was a police officer. Again, when that doesn't bode well. So when my parents got together. My family weren't happy about it.
Oh was it obvious friction from the beginning.
Did your your side accept or do they still not accept my dad?
No, they definitely didn't accept it. You know, the divorce was a shotgun divorce. It was like they only got married because she was pregnant with me, basically, and they got married. It was just obviously not meant to be. From different worlds. My dad was privately educated boarding school, you know, East London. It just doesn't go, is.
You know what? It doesn't does it?
Now?
You said it?
And me being a Britain coming from you know, I was brought up in North London. My father was from Enfield, my mother was from Portsmouth. So I know exactly what you're saying.
Yeah, it's just a bit. Yeah, it doesn't go. But being the youngest of my my mom was the youngest and being her eldest, girls hadn't been born in our family for ages, for generations and years, So I was a bit of a I sound awful saying it, but a little bit of a princess when I was smaller. So they kind of relented when I said I was joining They weren't overly happy about it, but they because I wanted to be a defense barrister, which would have made them very happy. But it didn't work out that way.
I thought I was going to live and whopping, wearing power suits and driving a sports car, but it didn't happen.
Was it a sliding doors moment?
Or was your decision to become a police a police officer quite sealed from a younger age?
God? No, I was literally I did A levels, which again is surprising for someone like me. I did my A levels and applied for university and was told there's an opening, and the police for women got doing a big recruitment drive and my dad said, I think you should give it a go.
And what, Danny, what gave you the drive and ambition to want to educate yourself, to want to go to UNI? To be this driven individual from such a young age, Because normally when you're I don't want to you know, put everyone in the same category here. But normally when you come you know from that sort of background, you know those things aren't really on the cards, aren't there?
You don't think right? I want to go to get you go.
To college, go to university, and to get a degree or get a qualification, whatever you're sort of thrust.
What forced you to take a different route.
Was there a moment that that happened or was it just something that you just always wanted to do.
I just always wanted a bit more, you know. I had an arty that I was closed with, and she's so funny because we say these things and you will know exactly what I mean. But my family would say go up London, but we were in London, but if they didn't go to the West End. Yeah, yeah, my Auntie would take me to the West End, like shopping and stuff. And I used to like, obviously you'd see people walking around with at that point, it was material
things because you're young, you don't understand it. But I'd see like ladies with like nice hair and like nice nails, and then like a handbag, and I'd think, I really want that when I'm older. And I was really fortunate then my family let me travel a lot when I was younger, so I'd seen different things. But I just didn't want to be a housewife. I didn't know there's anything wrong with that. It just isn't for me.
Yeah, And probably you're surrounded by it and like you said, you just wanted more, you wanted you know, you wanted something different, and then you found yourself.
Did you go to UNI? Did you say?
No? I didn't go because I got a police offer, so I didn't go. But if I hadn't got the police offer, I would have gone to UNI.
How did the police offer sort of work? So can you remember that there? When you thought, do you know what, I'm going to give this a crack?
I think it was it was my dad saying, oh, there's an opportunity, and I said, well, you're gonna have to help me with that application, because like it was just massive and ridiculous. And then he helped me with the application. And then I got a phone call saying, we've got a last minute appointment for an interview because there was a bad, massive battler. It was a two year waiting list, massive backlog, would like to interview you. And I thought great, went for the interview and I
don't even know how I got through it. There was the interviews, a face to face into your chat, and then there's a loads of tests, so you do a maths test and observation test. But I just loved it. I just thought it was so cool. And then about literally a few weeks after that, I got another phone call saying congratulations with someone not shown up. Would you like to start tomorrow morning at Hendon? And I said yes, And that was it. I had no preparation, nothing, nothing.
You got so someone didn't turn up for that because it's it's the two week cycles or something four week cycles.
Where did you stay at Hendon?
Because I don't know if that if they can do that now, but you you stay in the accommodation there was it.
It's an eighteen week program.
Is it that you go for eighteen weeks? Yeah? You lived there eighteen weeks. It's absolutely brilliant. I had the best time of my life because I've never had known it was like that before.
In two thousand and that.
Was the beginning of two thousand and three.
Wow, was there a sense of pride that you're representing your dad as well?
Yeah? He was so cute. He actually took me to all my exams, he took me to all my interviews, dropped me off at Hendon. He was so sweet, he was so excited. He was like, oh, I had the best time when I was here, And I was like thinking, I've never stayed away from home for that long before. But yeah, it was excellent. It was just in my head that's what UNI would be like. I mean, the downs were awful, but you don't care because everyone's in
the same position, so you don't care. Yeah, the downs were horrendous, but we had a subsidized bar and it was brilliant.
Do you know what? That's it?
What you need, you need just to drink at the end of the day to get you through.
But so Hendon took me through Hendon.
It's quite intense, right you go there, you're eighteen weeks, you're living on site, you're ultimately it's a bit like a military process. You're living and breathing to become to become a police officer.
What was the training like?
It's intense because again I've only done at that point, only done a level was where you just go to your lesson, you're spoken that for a couple of hours and then go home do your homework. But this was intense because you're learning law and you're not learning all of it either, of course, cause eighteen weeks it's not enough time. But that side of it was difficult and I found it really a lot because I really had to study for it. But I made friends there I'm
still friends with today, Like they're my best friends. Because you just Gael with a couple of people. They used to call us the three Witches. There was me and two girls and apparently when one of us would laugh, we'd all start tackling and we just we had the best time. Like we had so much banter, like it.
Was just three witches.
Yeah, they people hated I said. To see us coming, I'd be like, oh not memory.
Oh no, here we go, do you know what?
But that's what it's all about, right, And and for someone like yourself who wants stands the process, that banter is super important. It's almost like an acceptance, you know, into a clan, into a group, into an organization and your you guys were were there to.
Obviously uphold law and order? What Bara did?
Were you?
Were you signed to you?
Well, this is another funny thing. So my family are all from Tower Hamlets. I was born in my end and I went to Tower Hamlets, which was a really great idea.
Oh no, you're walking around like that. I know you, I know you, I know you. Wow.
Yeah, if I had a pound for every time I walked into custody and saw someone I knew that was sat there in handcuffs, I would not I could have left the police early. It would have been and.
They're like, hey, Danny, how what are you doing here?
What are you doing here again? Yeah, don't talk to me, Shy away from me.
But it was a good burrough because you've got crazy money in Canary Wharf, like super rich in Canary Wolf, and then you've got other places that I mean, they're up and coming now, but back then you'd have like Shadwell and Stepney that were just really poor. So for policing it was brilliant because you've got to do so much different stuff. I absolutely loved it. I thought it was I loved my job. I was very obsessed with it.
Yeah, that's that's very evident onto you know, going on to what you where you decided to take your career within the police force, because there's multiple sort of courses, there's multiple avenues you can go down.
Did you know what you wanted to do? I take it.
There's a probation period like any other where you have to do a couple of years. You know, Bobby on the beat, which doesn't exist, you know, but you know you have to go out on the streets.
Is it a two year process?
And then within that two years you sort of decide where you want to go from there.
It's supposed to be, yes, it is exactly what's going to happen, but you know it's yeah, it's supposed to be like that. But you know, when there's a demand and they've got someone that can fit that role, it's ways and means act we like to call it. I did just shy of two years before I ended up moving on, but I had no clue where I was going out. I thought I was going to be a you know, a first team. Ever, I never thought i'd leave and go and do anything specially, So I loved it.
I loved being out in the cars and running around. I thought it was like the best thing ever. You get a call off Saturday night and on a night duty there's like a fire or suspects on. I'm like, oh, go, I want to get want to be in the thick of it. I want to get amongst it. And it was evident quite early when I wasn't the person It sounds awful, but I was better with the suspects and
the victims. I'm not very emotional, I'm not very tactile, So for me to be able to put my arm on someone and pat them, it just be really patronizing because it's just not who I am. And I think my my superior saw that quite quickly, and don't let her go to any victims because she's the worst person in the world.
You're jumping in an app cars, You're you're going to crime scenes, You're you're you're dealing with people on the streets.
Do you know what's around the corner?
When I suppose you know, one of your inspectors comes up to you and says, ah, we've got a specialist trade for you. You know, do you fancy doing it? Was it as much as the hend and you know you were starting tomorrow? Was it very much like that with the specialist trade? That that was that was put in front of you?
Shall we say?
Yeah? They didn't word it so nicely. They told me not to come in to work the next day and go straight to New Scotland Yard and wear a suit. And I was so scared.
So you're Bobby on the bee. You come back and they say this is what they say to you, don't come in tomorrow.
Yeah, don't come in tomorrow. You need to be a new Scotland Yard at this time. Make sure you wear a suit.
Wow.
Yeah, and that's all I had.
Yeah, so come on you, you obviously put on a suit you go to New Scotland Yard.
It was a suit transpire.
I bought a really cheap suit from next.
We all had this. The next seats don't worry about that.
You know, the ones with the cheap lining in them, so if it's hot, you really sweat. Yeah, it was one of those and I said. I remember saying to my my governor, like any what can you tell me that? What's it all about? And he was like if I tell you it's too obvious, just go And I was like, amazing, thanks for that. And then I've got there and I've been to the yard before for briefings and stuff like that, but I got there, went to this floor, come out with lift and it was all closed. It was an
open plan, which was odd. So I knocked on the door and I was met by this lovely Scottish man and he said, ah, you must be done here and I was like hello. He's like really nice and He just said, you obviously don't know why you're here, because he could see I was nervous. I said, I have no idea, and he took me in and he just basically explained what SCD ten was, what they do, how it works. And I made such an idiot of myself because I said, oh, no, it's fine. I've been doing
undercover work anywhere in my borrow. I've been wearing my own clothes and going out and resting people in cars. And he was like, that's not how this world works.
And I was like, oh, so go back to that title you just said, s SCD ten SCD ten, right when you come out of that meeting, what what do you understand about this.
Role that I'm going to have. Basically, if I passed the corpse, have a double life, and even amongst basically the worst kinds of people in the UK, I'm going to live amongst them, infiltrate them, become their friend, and basically manipulate them to give me all the information that we need. But undercover, I'm going to be one of them and they like me, and we're all going to be friends, and I'll be honest. I walked out of there and just thought, like Jason Bourne, obviously it's nothing
like that. But when you're young, you don't get it. And I remember he said to me, what's your interest? What do you like? And I remember thinking, I don't really know what you mean. Because everyone in that unit has a specialism. So some of them might be mechanics, some of them might be foreign speakers, some of them are enthusiasts and pros. Obviously I have none of that, and I just got thrown into what he or what they thought was my specialism, and it turned out it was.
But you know, I was young. I knew how to party, and I knew how to go to the clubs. You know, he had to China whites on Wednesday faces on a Saturday, Like I went to those plays and I never told obviously, you never told anyone what I did for a job, But I went to all these places, so I knew how that world worked. So that's kind of where I fell into. So drugs basically became my thing to go and work on.
So yeah, you literally thereafter you have to go on to a You literally have to build a double life, don't you.
You literally have to to.
To forget about your pre existence, and and and lie to your mind, lie to yourself that you're this other person, and it is that's exactly what it is. You know you're living a lie. You know you're lying to yourself. Therefore you're living a lie. And it's uh, you know, you're completely manufacturing something. But you have to know that people don't understand. You have to know this suitor person
better than you know yourself. Right. You almost have to push yourself aside because this is the new youth from every single detail someone tries to get you out. If someone gets suspicious that you're you're an undercover, they will ask certain questions. You literally have to go so deep into this second life that you become it.
Yeah, it's true because if you're being yourself, you just know the answer because you're telling the truth. But when you've been someone else, you need to. It's constantly on your brain, like why am I here? What's my name? Like, you know, if you're walking down the street and someone shouted at Dan, I'd obviously turn around, but if I'm really most of the time you do use as close to your name as possible, but some cases you don't. So you know you need to be on just little
stupid things like niances like that or that. Obviously my accent. If I'm in Scotland or in the North, what am I doing out there this accent? He's not local, so what am I doing there? So you need answers all the time. And it's not like you have to sit there really off because it's not an interview, but you need to be natural with it as well. So but I think because I was young, I didn't know any different.
And how hard was that for you? For you to adapt?
Surprisingly easy. I quite liked it. I felt like it was quite like active a little bit, and I thought it was quite I just I didn't know any different. And when I met some of the out former ucs or the undercover officers who had done this for years, they were so cool. In my head, I thought they were absolutely like elite and I just wanted to be a part of their click. I wanted There was no real girly girls in the unit. There was a few girls,
but not many, and they weren't really girly. I was really girly, So I always felt a little bit like I was never going to get to the click because I was like the young girly stupid one. But I really wanted to be a part of the clique. I wanted them to say, do you want to go for a drink later? And I wanted to be invited to all these things. You don't get invited to unless you've made it.
And it's almost that imposter syndrome, isn't it.
But ultimately, when you look at that imposter syndrome, you you are actually living that boster syndrome because you're being someone else when you fully qualified for that role, when you when you when you passed the course, what was your first day at the office as a fully qualified imposter let's call it? How did what did that look like?
And how did it differ from from your from what you were used to.
Well, I didn't have to wash my hair before work, which was great because I wanted to look like I was on the streets, so that was great. I didn't have to put makeup on, which was amazing. I saved loads of time. Yeah, but you're conscious about what you're wearing. Because my first deployment was actually in green Lanes in Tottenham. I was used to having my makeup down, my nails, down my teeth for like everything I've wanted, everything, perfect eye lashes, but I never did any of it. Everything.
I went back to basics and I had to dress to fit in. And I remember I had a pair of Nike t ns and I remember doing them up really tight to the front that sort of curled up a bit, which is just all I'd never do that, that's not me. Like I made my clothes smell. They were like damp, so I washed them, put them in a bin bag and let them dry a bit in the bin bags. And then that musty smell, so you
just stink, You just look disgusting and you smell. And it was actually to go and establish a supply of crack, and I was like, I didn't know at that point obviously that this wasn't how it worked. Normally you're giving a bit of a lock on, like a phone number or we've got some intelligence to lock us onto someone, but we didn't on this one. And they just said,
can you just establish a supply? And I remember thinking, I mean Tottenham, I know that there's it's around here, like of course it is, it's Green Lanes, know this place, It's fine, But I didn't have a lock on. And I remember just going into a bookies like a betting shop and saying to this man who I believe might also have the same interest as me, if he knew anyone my normal boy's not about and if you've got a number, and he said, I'll take you, but you've
got to chip me off. And I didn't know what that meant, but I said yes, And basically he wanted me to. He was going to take me to a dealer and he was going to take some of the product and for himself, but.
To give you a bit. Yeah.
But like if that had happened like two years later, I'd have been like, absolutely not, you're not having that, because he really took quite a bit and I would have a kick off. And it actually was a bit of a disaster that job, because he took me to the house and the dealer was really happy to service. I said bye to my friend from the betting office and I started walking. I was so happy I've got it in my pocket. I'm like, yes, my adrenaline, he's
through the roof. I'm so excited I've not failed, because I would hate to fail. You know, you don't want to go back and say I couldn't do it because especially your first job, like no way. But the dealer decided he took a shining to me and followed me, and I was like, amazing, this is really going well. And I remember he asked where it was again, I'm always going to rob it back because that happens all the time. So I told him I put it somewhere else. Let you go. I guess where I told you was?
It was a It was in my pocket. And I mean, you'll know, you'll know Tottenham and Green Lanes if you look at it from the birds I view, it's like a ladder, so there's loads and loads of alleyways. They call it the ladder, so there's lots of opportunity to be pulled, dragged and things to go on out of you. And he decided to drag me down the alley and tell me what he would like me to do to him. And my heart was just pounding because I'm thinking, I don't know what to do, Like I really don't know
what to do. I can't scream who I really am, because why would I do that. That's just going to blow everything. I'm never gonna get it again. Yeah, but I'm not gonna lie. I was scared. I was really scared. I've gone from adrenaline, super happy to really scared be in about three minutes. So my heart was just pounding at my chest and he's pulling my head and he's I'm doing his trousers and I'm thinking, this is it? What am I going to do? And the only thing I laugh about it now, but at the time I
was deadly serious. The only thing I could think I was buy it and run because I could see the end of the alleyway. But if I tried to push him and run, He's going to outrun me for sure. He was way bigger than me. So all this like I was doing all this risk assessment in my head
without realizing I was doing a risk assessment. It's only after I'm like, I've thought about him, thought actually that was really bad, and I'm thinking just literally and leg it because he's that then I will have an opportunity to run because he's going to be on the floor for a sec. But with that screeched off at the end of the alleyway like a builder's type van, and this guy's got out and he's calling me all sorts of names and not I won't repeat them because they're
not suitable. But he was calling me names, and I just remember looking at it and thinking, I recognize you, but I don't know why. And he'd been in my briefing, so before i'd been deployed. We have like a briefing, and he'd been in the briefing. But I've obviously just scanned the room and I've obviously noted it but not really taken much notice m And he's like you, how
dare you? You always do this to me? And the dealer was saying she asked for it, man like she wanted it, bro like it was all her And I'm like, no, like I'm not cried, but I want to cry. I'm like, you know, it wasn't like that. I'm sorry, and I'm going along with what this guy from the van saying and I'm not. I'm still not really sure what's happening. So anyway, I've gone in the van with this guy and he said, are you're right? And I said yeah, but who are you? Like, how did you know I
was there? Because you're on your own, you don't have a team on you. I said, how did you know I was there? And he said, you've got a two way phone in your pocket. Obviously had like a dirt called a dirty phone in my pocket, but I didn't. They didn't tell me. They could hear everything that was going on. It's a two ways so they could hear constantly because it's my first employment. Maybe it was their
little safety blanket. But didn't want scary until we like, by the way, we're popping this in your pocket so they could heal the melee and knew where I was and they come and got me. But it was tear medals when we got back.
So you had you had the top cover there, but you just didn't know about it.
No, I had no idea.
And I suppose that keeps you, That keeps you sort of innocent, That keeps you, you know, rather than you know, probably saying keywords that you that you if you know you've got a phone on you, that that would give away the game. It's just it's does these subtle hints, yeah, that you know, especially these criminals are so so knowledgeable now, they're so sophisticated. They can spot spot people from a
mile off. And I suppose it stopped you from from really sort of you know, panicking and knowing that you've got back up.
Exactly.
So that was your that was your first job. Once you got into the van and you you you went back, did you did? Was it a not question? Did not raise questions in your head to think is this the job for me? Or was that just a no?
No, no no. I've got top cover behind me.
You know, I've succeeded in this first sort of mission, this first task.
And listen, let let's go again.
When I was in van, I was thinking what am I doing? But when I got back and everyone's like, oh my god, that was amazing, that was brilliant. You really held it all together, and you're getting told by the people that you're looking up to how great it was. I was like, yeah, I playing trying to be all cool,
but really, inside, what have I just done? I really didn't want to let them know that I was nervous because I didn't like them to think I was weak, which is ridiculous, like you're weak, you're week No, of course, at the time, I didn't want to be weak.
When did it start to go on to the more sort of CD stuff. You know, were you assigned just for for the drugs in a specific time scale, and then did you go on to the more called it hardcore stuff or was it just different different missions at a time. One could be a drug one, one could be a pedophile, one could be a sex offender or how how did that work?
So some days I'd have more than one job, one more than one deployment, which was wild. But you don't get the good, the good good jobs like pubs, clubs, festivals. You don't get those jobs until you've proven yourself with the horrible jobs. So you're like the one the CD jobs, So you have to kind of you have to do loads of the horrible what we classes horrible jobs before they will deploy you into a pub. I mean, anyone can go into a pub and score. It's like it's easy,
isn't it. I'd much rather dressed like that than like some of the ways I was stressing. And then for the decoys stuff, I did loads of decoy work, but decoys rarely work. I think there's an hour in the UK there's now only five successful operations for decoys. But my successful decay job. When I say this, that allowed it just sounds ridiculous. But we had a predator. There was like over one hundred and twenty one victims of
this predator. He was started with a bit of upskirting, bit of overclothing touching, and it was all school goals. And they said to me, now this is where the banter comes in. And people are like, what is wrong with you? But you have to be in through it. When I got this phone call from my handler and he said I've got this job for you and it's perfect and he was laughing, I knew there was something not quite right with it. So I went to the briefing and they said, we've got your You don't need
to bring any kit. We've got the kit here for you. I was like, okay, brilliant, amazing, because sometimes you would get that. Sometimes you might get a nice new coat to wear, or if it's somewhere high end in the West End, they'd get you a nice outfit. But I've walked into this room and it was on a TSG base like the Riot Riot Police Tactical Support root base, which is never a good thing. That's never good walking in there as a UC because you know, but something really going
to go down it. And they pulled that school uniform and said that's your kid, go and put it on and I was just like, I'm not putting on a school uniform walking back in this room with this lot, and they were like, yes, you will, and.
I was like, no, it's your job getting on.
Yeah. So I went and put it on, and I was just like I was really skinny then, like really young, really skinny, and I was just putting on this school uniform and I felt such an idiot.
So so Danny just just just jumping back into that and jumping into your mindset, jumping into your headspace.
You know you're going to be on this job for a while. You're you know you're you're undercover.
Yes, you're after a predator. You know you in your head are you thinking, you know we got to put it in an end to this? You know more, more people are going to suffer. You know you're ultimately you're serving the people, right, But but do you get into a sense of character. You know, it's not just in case. You're putting it on once and away you go. You know, you're you're you're donning this school uniform every single day. You know a year, you're jumping into into a different character.
You've got to act like a young naive probably drunken school girl, whatever it may be.
How hard is that does and does it engulf your whole life?
You know, people go leave, leave your work at work, and you know, but it's very, very hard to do that with something like this because you know, you're living and breathing it, living and breathing it until it becomes the norm. Because when it does become the norm, that's when you know, that's when it works. How how what's going through your head and or you just running with it? Are you just you're just rolling with it?
Yeah, it's really funny you say that, because at the time, I'll be honest, I was just rolling with it my head. I was like, I work, of course you want to catch them. I'm super competitive. I don't like losing, so of course you don't want them to be smarter than you. You want to get them. And there've been so much more of this operation before it got to this point. You know, they've done surveillance and lots of staff, but they just couldn't get him. They had one grainy picture
of this guy. He was super CCTV aware, so I was obviously keen to get him. But what I will say is deeper jobs are very few and far between with a good success, Like they're not very successful. So I'll be honest and say I wasn't convinced we wouldn't necessarily get him. So you just, yeah, you're running kind of and it's horrible because it's kids, and you have to like it's just it's just not acceptable. So you're like,
you do want to get him, but it wasn't. We did it for two weeks and it wasn't, which is a very short deployment.
But every day you're getting dressed in the same school uniform. Was your routine, Like you're hanging around bus stops at peak school times, I take it, and you're having to blend in and probably people have never seen you before.
Who the hell are you? And you know, yeah, school kids.
The girls it was an all girls school, and they were like I'm there in the same uniform as them when they're getting on the bus, like you're not coming on the bus. I'm like, I'm not going in there. I'm not going today, and they just as a bit of a rebel and I was just going to like not I was the new girl and I'm just not going to school and I've been put there by my parents because I'm naughty. Without going into extreme detail with you, but on that particular job, we did have a team
because of course he could strike at any point. We did have a team, so there was a surveillance team around so if he did attack, they would get him quick. But to this day, that was probably my best job, even though it was like not as exciting as some of the others, because some of the others, you know, it's really intense when you're infiltrating an arm robbery gang. That's intense. That's really big work. And this wasn't long and big work, but the impact it had after and
now I've left, I've left that bubble. When I look back at it, I'm really glad I did that, and I'm glad it was me that did that. So the last day of the job, this is really weird as well. And you like what you said about mentally, like you know things in your gut and your head. I don't know why. The phone rang, my dirty phone rang, and it was my senior investigating officer, and she said, end exercise,
go back to your safety location. And I was like, okay, for some reason, I don't I can't tell you why I started walking and I turned round and there was this guy and he was peering around the corner of like the it's like a corner of the house, but it was like a bush and a bit of a wall. But I'd seen him. I kept walking and before I could even get myself together, I think, actually that might have been something because in the grainy CCTV he was similar,
same address. But before I could even get my thoughts together, I could it behind me and he just grabbed me around the throat, put me on the floor, done what you wanted to do, which felt like it lasted for like ever, but it wasn't. It was literally less than a minute because the team obviously saw it and they got him, which was great because it was me and not another So.
What do you mean? So he grabs you around the throat?
So you hear these footsteps and you've been told to endex so this is like index you know, listen, mission didn't work. So he's grabbed you from the back, pulled you what pulled?
Pinned you to the grad.
Yeah, I'm on the floor. He's getting himself to a position where he wants to be, you know what I mean? Ah, But again, like again, It's good it's me because I know that I'm putting myself in that position, and I'm an adult and i know what I'm doing and I can I can deal with it. So I'm glad it was me and not one of the girls, because that's it just ruined their life. It's just awful. And some of the girls mum's actually wrote me letters after and that's what I think. It's my best job because you
see what your work has impacted someone. And one of the moms said that her daughter had actually been a repeat victim, so he'd got a twice, not that he knew it was the same girl because he just saw the uniform. And she said in the letter that she you know, her daughter can now sleep at night, she's not weting the bed. And as a parent, I'm like, oh yeah, but I'm glad.
It was me.
And you can almost put aside all of all of the fucking seediness, all of the vileness aside, knowing that you've you know that you've pared for this, You put your yourself in the fire in line to protect these young girls. Is that is that how you is that how you deal with it? Is that how you how you move on with something like that, because that's some serious, you know, headspace to fucking try and try and deal with.
Right, Yeah, I think I just look at it as a as a positive. I've done a good job. And it sounds cheesy, doesn't it, But ultimately it doesn't.
It doesn't.
You signed up to a discipline service to serve your country. You're serving the queen. We're there king now with the Queen. So you can't all of a sudden say, oh no, actually I don't want to do that anymore. Like that's your You've taken on that job. You know what you're signing up for.
I love that because you know, that's that's what the same wor when I signed up is like, you know, I was expecting to go to combat. I was expecting to, you know, to lose comrades. I was expecting to potentially lose my life. And it's like, you know, you you're putting your your ultimately putting your life on the line. You're sacrificing the the ultimate which is you know, which is yourself to get a job done. And I find that very commendable of you because it's exactly how it
should be. You know, you know exactly what you've got involved with. You know, yeah, okay things might you know what happened to you as a horrendous and you know what what you know, but you just don't know, right, That's why you do that line that line of work was it was it quite easy for you just to brush that off and go on to the next job.
Yes, but again down to the because of the banter of my colleagues. So when we went back, for example, after we went back, they need to get the uniform obviously because it's evidence. But they're all laughing. You can imagine the banks. Imagine they're like, you've got the money shot. They've obviously viewed the footage. You've got the money shot.
I'm like, of course she did. And then after this is a bit twisted, but not twisted because I'm glad they did it, because otherwise you could put yourself in a hole, couldn't you. They once you went through call and they gave all the evidence back to the police and it only gets destroyed. But on this occasion they decided to dry a click in the school uniform and give it to me as a trophy, which.
Is just like, this is I get it because of the I think the banter is it's almost like a yeah, it's like a medal, isn't it.
It's like and you know, people will go, what the hell are you want about?
But unless you've been there and put yourself in those situations and understand that the dark humor, the dark banter actually gets you through these situations. You know, if you were just to sit there and go, oh my god, that was terrible, were you okay? And almost pampering to to something that that you know that is there but you know is in the background, and then it brings it to the forefront, and then you know you're creating a problem.
How important is it and how did it help you through?
You know, this, this this dark banter or this dark humor.
I just don't I think you don't give it enough time. You're in a bubble. You're in this bubble, so it's only after you leave you think about it. You go, well, actually, that was a bit much that or I would do that now. And there's loads of I say that, And as a mother of a daughter who is the age I was when I was doing that stuff, there's no way she's doing any of that stuff in a million years I think you just get on with it, don't you. You're like, it's your job, you just get on with it.
And I am really pro police, and I will say I am pro. Yes, the metsicine a complete mess at the minute, but I think that it was different then to what it is now. It was just different. You know, we could banter and no one would be offended with anything. Like I didn't care what people said to me. I'd give it back and if I was upset, that's my be on me, because this is not the industry to like.
You said, you know, the crime is different, you know the substance use is different. You know, the people are different. You know, it's it's a it's in a huge mess, which which we both know. And why did you decide to leave? You know, you serve ten years and what was your mindset on leaving the force.
I think it was more I grew up a bit and I you know, I couldn't do this forever. I was running around every day doing living another life, which was fantastic and it did help me a lot, but I also had a real life when I had kids, and kids, you know, they take up a lot of time, and I was getting to the point where I was putting myself in these really dangerous positions where I could get really hurt, and what's going to happen with my kids.
I went from a really messy divorce, like a really messy divorce, so that also wasn't, you know, the best period. So that happened to me that my kids then just go and live with their dad, like what happens here? Like this is a really difficult position. And I didn't just leave. I took a career break. I thought, I'm just going to take a little bit of a career break and then I'll come back. And I was getting phone calls every day say you know you're coming back?
Here are you coming back? We need you back. There's no one else can do what you're doing. Can you come back? And in the end, I just I was being mum and it sounds awful, but I was being full time mom, which freaked me out because I'm not a school mum. You know, I'm not one of those mums that hang around the playground. I'm just not That's just not for me. And if they talk to me, I'm like, oh god, I don't talk to me because I haven't got to talk with this, we'll get to
work and there's nothing wrong with that. It just wasn't for me. Yeah, of course I found that. Really I just wasn't that lady. And then an opportunity to come to move to France, so I took the kids. We moved to France. We put the kids in French school, which was the best thing we ever did, because our kids speak for it and read right to speak French. Our daughters. She's the smartest stupid person I've ever met. She's got no common sense, but she can speak, read,
and write three languages. And as a brick that's really impressive, isn't it.
An't You've gone from a sort of a specialist organization to uh.
To the media world. How how did the media world? You know a good old Channel four.
Because I think Hunted came just after say who Dares Wins? So we were that's why, that's why we know. We were floating around in the same sort of building and you know, a crossing paths and you know.
This is why I've got you on the podcast. But how did that find?
You should never have found me. It was a friend of a friend had said, oh I've got this job, and she worded it in a way that they made out that they were saying that someone was missing and they needed my assistance. And I was like, absolutely, no problem. It was a Tuesday and god, it's so embarrassing. I had lever trousers on a blow dry because I was going out in the West End on that Tuesday night. And the way she's working was just a meeting. Yeah, I thought I was real essex, Like that was my
essex moment. And I said, all right, it's just a quick meeting. I'm going out. I've got to the building and it was Shine Offices in Camden and I was like, what is going on? And this lovely lady, she's like, you obviously clearly don't know what you're doing. And I was like, I have no idea, and she said, you're
here for a casting and audition. I said for what she explained, hunted it was meant to be at the time, it was only supposed to be a pilot and a bit of a social experiment, and I said absolutely not. You know, I've lived my entire life under the radar. I've never ever.
Put in the shadow by myself.
Yeah, And then I said, there's no way I'm now going to put my face on TV. And she played me in my own game and manipulated me a little bit, and she said, look, let's just see one piece of camera. But in my head something clicked and I just thought, oh, it's just one piece of camera and just pretend you're one of the other people that used to be and then I just did this piece to camera and that was it. In the back that we did like ten seasons of it and celebrity season, so that it's Yeah.
Do you know what the same with us says has been going on for now ten years. Obviously we've we've bounced over or I've bounced over with Olie to SAS Australia and now you know we I am now bringing out my own format in the UAE in Dubai, which is obviously got the S A S DNA, but an evolved format and an evolved media format which I'm going to be pushing out in the UAE in the wider GCC regions. So yeah, it's exciting stuff. So this is where you met Ben as well you met your your husband.
Now before you know, before we.
Wrap up, tell me about I like Ben, I've gotten well with Ben we touch base.
So was it love at first sight?
This is terrible. Apparently he've written you on the spot now, yeah, this is And you're going to laugh when I tell you this story because you'll be like, was I there? You were actually there?
It was a fronts yea, was it? Come on? Tell me, tell me tell me.
Well, apparently he remembers seeing me at work, obviously, but I just thought he was just the guy in HQ. Didn't think much of it. It's work whatever. I'm there to do a job, obviously getting you as you know, when you once you get into the Channel four, they smoose you and they put you all these fancy parties
and you're out of your comfors over loving life. So me, Ben Nick and Blex we were the four that always got picked to do all the media stuff, which I don't know why asked for but us for so us were kind of put together a lot. And then we went to the Upfront, which obviously we'd never been to a party like that before, so we thought he was the best thing we've ever seen. They got shy effects playing live and like everything's free, so you know, like
ex military and explain it if it's free. You're like, wow, it's free, Yes, free things. And then as I went to say goodbye to him, he kissed me and I was like, why did you do that? And then he said, what why did you do that? Now you made it awkward and weird. And that was it. We've been together. We got married last week.
Congratulation. Do you know what? I love that? Love that. Yes, we've got a wedding on head Game. Yeah.
But you know what, he's a great guy, a great series, great fun is you know, and also it leads to other opportunities. And what I love about it, and you mentioned it there. What I love about my decision to do it, to go from living in the in the shadows to the limelight, is it's just exposed a different part of me.
It's exposed a different you know.
It's like we could so easily just filter back into the background, live under these rocks, and you know, for me go around at Africa doing a security circuit and doing what I need to do, you know, a bit of mercenary work whatever whatever it may be. But to take that step and that leap of faith into into what we've done, I can I know what it's like I know how hard it is, I know what it takes. You know you're so I can only say well done to you, Danny.
What's next for you?
So? Ben and I own a cybersecurity company nice, which is great. I still can't. I still keep my toe in here and again you're in there, but I just we've literally moved out. So Ben and I have a quite a similar background, We've both done similar work, and we've just basically moved it all to digital. We've literally taken what we used to do physically to online. We teach open source intelligence, we do a lot of digital vulnerability for lots of different variety of people. And you know,
the business is going from strength to strength. We're really we're putting everything into it. We love it, we're really excited about it. And I literally lived by the motto of no risk, no story, because that's literally how my life is. And I say yes to everything. So why did I say yes to that?
Wow?
But you say yes, no story? I love that? Do you know what?
And I say, there's no growth in comfort, but no risk, no story. Absolutely right. And talking about stories, You've written a book as well.
Haven't you, yes, which is again mental you know I did a levels, but I didn't think I'd ever be an author, let alone an award with an author. Does that even happen?
Do you know what, Danny, You and me have followed the same career. Really, we've just you know, I've been in the military, You've been in the police. We've both jumped out. You've gone to hunting, I've gone to sa I've written loads of books. You've written loads of books. Where can we get your book?
And well, there's two. I'll say the second version is better. There's too one of the first ones called Go for the Job, and the second one's Undercover Copper Amazon. Of course all the best bookstores are selling it, and the ones that aren't selling it, of course they're missing out. It's really cool. And there's more happening with the book in the background, which is really exciting. I think it's allowed to be said. But the basically the book's been made into a drama, which is really.
Yes, that is awesome, that's what you want. Listen your smashing life. It's really really good to see Danny. But Danny, thank you so much. Your story will inspire others phenomenally. It's been a great conversation loved having you on, I loved having a fellow over it on there on with me, and I wish you all the best for the future.
Thanks, thank you.
For more stories from Danny's life undercover, check out How Book The Girl for the Job.
It's out now.
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I'm at Middleton. Catch you on the next episode.