We'd like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which this podcast was produced, the Gadigle people of the orination. We pay our respects to Elder's past and present. This episode contains discussion of suicide. If this raises any issues for you, support is available through the links and phone numbers in the show notes.
It's the height of summer and we're on the sands of Sydney's iconic Bondai Beach, with the sun beating down and the waves crashing. It's an idealic spot to spend the day and that's why tens of thousands of beach goers flock here on a day like this. But Bruce Hoppo' Hopkins isn't here for us swim and an ice cream. Hopo is the head lifeguard and star of Bondai Rescue. Surrounded by cameras and crew. There's a lot at stake here.
When someone gets into trouble, it's his job to return them to safety, with their family and friends, tourists and the world watching. I'm at Middleton and this is head game today and insight into the pressure of being one of the world's most influential lifeguards and sat opposite me right now is Bruce hop o' hopkins. Bondai rescue is what you're known for, but ultimately you've been saving lives from a young age. How and when did you first realize that you wanted to be a lifeguard, because I
know you Ozzies love the sea, love the beach. And how did you get into it?
Well, look started when I was doing a lot of ocean racing, Like I'm in racing and there's the big cool and get of gold, and everyone wanted to be an im in at a young age, and I had to find a job that fitted in with being able to do a lot of training and then also been able to compete, and lifeguard was the perfect perfect match. It was you got paid, I got to betray and then also on top of that, I got to you know, look after people and at the beach and rescue people and save people's lives.
So I had the best of all worlds in one hit.
And when's the first time you actually witnessed the sort of a lifeguard in action and you thought, cod wow, these these people really deceive lives.
Yeah, I mean I looked up to a lot of the lifeguards growing up as a kid. You know, they were down there and they're doing the rescues, and it was something that he looked up and thought, how amazing that, you know, these guys are going out massive surf, they're going out in small surf, they're doing resuscitations, they're rescuing people. It's just something that really was admirable. You know, we really looked up to all the lifeguards and I didn't think one day when I was older, I'd end up
being one myself. But when I did become a lifeguard, you become really proud and excited to be a part of that team.
So it's sort of like a natural progression, right you're in the sea all the time. He was hanging around that sort of community, watching people do their thing, and like you said, you know you could do that along
where you're training. Was there, especially back in the day, you know, when you when you look at lifeguards, did the whole aura of you know, being a chick magnet and you know, running along the beach and because you know, we all we all watched the Baywatch, Was there ever an element of that that intrigued you into the job.
Yeah, well it did, because you know, you turn up the beach. There's plenty of girls around, There's plenty of different people coming from all especially Bonda is all around the world people are coming and visiting Bondalai and yeah, flocks of them. So it was something that yeah interesting. It was just a great environment to be in. And you know, some days at Bondo, you go down to the south end, you know, you feel like you're in Italy. You could be feeling like you're in Sweden, you feel
like you're in England, depending on what you know. There's that many different nationalities are around, and it's just changed the whole.
The dynamic of the beach is amazing.
And was there ever a moment where before you got into your lifeguarding, especially with being so active as you were, there ever a moment that you realized how dangerous the ocean can be.
I mean, you grow up respecting it.
I mean you start surfing at a young age in Australia and you go out and you get held down by plenty of waves and you realize that it's way
more powerful than what you are. So but you learn, you learn where your limitations are, you learn on how to use the ocean to your advantage and That's what I've been lucky to grow up with, and I can use the ocean to my advantage now rather than fight against the water that you're saying when people do get stuck in rips, they're fighting the water rather than just letting themselves go and flow with it.
Because there's an art to it, Isn't that? How hard is it to really study the ocean and how hard is it to become a lifeguard here in Australia, especially on the beaches.
Oh, it's really difficult because unless you've grown up with it so just to learn it real quick.
It takes years and years and years.
To understand how the ocean works. And a lot of people come over and think they're good enough to get out there in the surf and next thing you know, they get caught in trouble. And I've had people around the world that said that, you know, they've lifeguarding or they've done lifeguards before around the world, but it's either in a pool that could be lake and a different story when you get out of here with plenty of
waves and a lot of water moving. So it makes it, you know, very difficult, and to become a lifeguard, it's a big process to be able to get to that level and have that skill.
And most of the time the people.
We get they've grown up with it and understand years nature. Yeah, I mean, you know, you learn quick as a kid. You learn a bit quicker than you know that when you're an adult, and just growing up with it just makes it so much easier. And I mean by the time you get to about eight nineteen and you're coming on as a lifeguard, if you're coming that at that age, you know, you've had a good fifteen sixteen years of
around the beaches and understanding how it all works. And you know, I see young kids now that are four or five six years old are getting out there on little phone boards and you know they're learning. One day they may be a lifeguard as well down the track when we get a bit older.
What made you decide, right, this is what I want to do. When was that, you know, because there's a difference between doing the course becoming a lifeguard. But when did you actually go, actually, I love what I do, really really to use this as a career.
Well, when I first started, I thought I'll just do it for five years. Five years was like you've got given a senior lifeguard title, and I thought, I'll do it five years and then move on to something else.
That time came.
And I thought I was sort of enjoying it. A few people left that were the boss left, a few other people were leaving at the time. Were rolling into the Sydney Olympics in two thousand and I had the vision of where lifeguarding was going to go. So back in those days, it was really just a seasonal job where you come in in September, finishing around April, and that was it. You had to go find other work
in the winter. In the nineties, so but I could see it being a professional and we'd lose all the older guys because obviously that are families and couldn't sustain just.
Not working in the experience as well experience, and.
I thought, well, I think we can make this in a permanent, a permanent, full time job career for people. And once the Olympics hit, that was the the stepping
stone where we could really start. We had to work longer because Olympics came in and around that August into the September period, so we had to start a bit earlier, and then we extended the season into the May because the water was always still warmer as well into May, so we only had a couple of months that was you know, we weren't working, and eventually we just said we'll try and go full time and then that was the goal and get all the beaches full time and
Bondai was went full time, and then we look after Bronnie and Tamarama as well in the way of the council area, and then that went full time. And once we had the beaches twelve months of the year, that created everybody to then continue as a permanent lifeguard and there's no more seasonal so and we retain a lot more as well now because it's a full time permanent job. So it's basically just got casuals who fill in the shifts when we need gaps or guys are gone on leave.
Most of them are like paramedics or fieries or things like that in emergency services and help out and yeah, so it sort of came about that way from the Olympics and I had this vision that I think we can take it to another level and it was weird that everyone left. I sort of fell into the head lifeguard role without really even knowing it around the Olympic period.
And natural progression sort of thing.
Yeah, it was just sort of happened that way.
And I didn't really understand at the time why they just put me in there. But we had the stadium as a ten thousand seat stadium that went onto the beach, and high tide would block the beach because it was hit in the back of the stand that was on BONDI.
They had the beach volleyball down there, and then so we had to break it into two beaches, set at the south end and then the north end, and we came up with a you know, we put a tower down the north end, had all the main areas at the south because that's predominantly our worst areas, the south end, and we just came up with a plan and a patrolling strategy plan and put that in place and it
just really worked well. And I think then the councils thought, well, we've done that, and the next thing, you know, they put me in the role and we continue on that way, and I'm going to stay and probably make this now in my career rather than sort of after five years I'm out of here to do something else.
And it was perfect.
Timing and without me even knowing or realizing, and then I could just see where we needed to go with it and how we needed to get the lifeguards to a higher level.
And it was just lucky that that period happened.
And it wasn't long after that, you know, three four years we changed the whole service and it became a lot more professional and obviously we do a lot of physical tests and we dropped the times way lower than what the standard was. So that made it, in my mind, was if you really wanted to be there, you do whatever you need to do to pass that test to
get on. And that brought the team a lot closer because we just had people that wanted to be there, and it made it a lot easier than too to work as one rather than having some people just there for the sake of being there, and other people are passionate about being a lifeguard, but then they've been brought down by other people who just didn't really give a stuff, and so.
It would have been the opposite, right the moment you go from seasonal to full time. Oh, I love that, mate, I love that because normally when that happens, and that you know, people who in demand they lower the standards, and then the standards dropped just to fill those places because all of a sudden you've gone from that seasonal change to the full time change. That's really interesting to know and were you part of that.
Yeah, so it it was me that suggested to get that way. So and when he did it that way to get the people that want to be there. So people would drop off because they just asked, I can't do it whatever, and then they drop off, but we
got the core group with people that you know. For an example, one guy complained that I'm not going to lose so many guys and a lot of people are winging about it, and so this guy, so we had we dropped it to thirteen minutes for the for the in the pool, swim eight hundred meters under thirteen minutes, and then we did the ocean test after we finished the pool. But using the pool as an example, he would swim say third minutes thirty when it used to
be fourteen minutes. So he's going, well, I'm going to file because it's now thirteen minutes. And I said, no, if you really want to be here, you'll do whatever work, whatever you need to do to get under thirteen, he said, oh, I'm getting older and older. So at that stage he was probably about forty two. So by the time he gave it away and finished, he was probably in his
early fifties. And he's early so ten years later he's swimming twelve thirty, but ten years younger he was swimming thirteen thirty.
Yeah, amazing.
So because he wanted to be there, he did what he had to do to be able to do the time.
So that just he've got the standards there then, right, you know, and again like people that want to be there, people that want to better themselves, people that want to you know, be at their optiments in order to save lives. And when you want to when you go, you got to go right. You know your job, she knows her job. He knows his job. Les, let's move together so you
can focus on your on the job at hand. So did it become sort of a career profession I suppose where before it was like, do you know what, this is just seasonal? Now it is more of a career, right, you look at it as more more of a career because it's full time.
Yeah, it was always known when I first started, and then the nine is always known as a job you did before you went and got a real job. Yeah, and then and then, as you say, it went permanent and that made it. You know, once jobs go permanent, they have to become more professional and that's something that everyone wanted that and enjoyed that stage on how it changed, and it was really good because you know. The other thing too, though, is you're getting people on when you
do a rescue. You times, I wouldn't put myself in that position just going out in the water if it's on a certain day, but I've got to put myself in that position to get that person out of that critical situation. So you're putting yourself in that's right, You're going against your instinction training and that's right and putting
yourself into that position. And it can be quite daunting and frightening at times where you know, and whenever someone gets into trouble, they always put themselves somehow into the worst possible position they could ever get in.
And then you've got going and get them out.
Because they don't know they're doing exactly like me. I'm doing the exact gob what I'm supposed to do, you know, And what was the pressure like because at such a young age, you're this you know young. Yeah, you've got five six years under your belt, but in the grand scheme of things, that's nothing.
Yeah.
I mean it was tough at times, you know, because you were the younger one and you're trying to call the shots and you had to earn that respect.
Yeah, because there's still a lot of older guys there.
They've been there a lot longer than I had, and you just had to earn that respect. And it was funny though with I never realized till I got older, that with the leadership leading teams, because when I was younger, I was always get and I was very quiet, hardly said a word, you know when I was younger, and but always end up the captain of the cricket team or captain of the football team. And I always and I said to a coach once, I said, why would
you put me? And I hardly say a word and he goes, no, But everyone respects you because what happens is when you do say something, everyone listens.
And I said, okay.
And then I've realized that now later going through the career I've gone through that you've got to earn the respect and you've got to be able to do the job. But then you don't want to be saying too much all the time. It's when you do say something, then people listen, and that's how you get the team working really well when they are in that mindset.
And what are you looking for apart from the you know, the benchmark sort of criteria tests what you're looking for in a team member.
Well, you're looking for one they've got to have the skill level you know, to come in. But that's not the end game. You know, it's a lot of learning when you come into the knowing when to beat a certain spot. And you know, we have a lot of banner in the tower. I mean, you could turn up in looking the best you've ever looked and still get ripped apart in the bag and whatever. So that's a
that's a good part with it. And so you need to have that and be able to cop a bit of banner as well as well as given you don't you don't want to be someone that just gets all upset and about getting paid out and accept it.
The way of bringing people in, isn't it, and in a way making them feel comfortab in a bizarre type of way.
And then the other thing too is the observation and been able to stand out in the sun and the heat and keep the concentration. People don't realize they see us this watching, but that don't realize that what the stress on that And in the back of your mind, if you come in have a bad day and make a mistake, it could cost someone their life. Whereas if you're in the office and make a mistake, just fix it up later and you might lose a bit of money or something in the company, but you.
Can fix that up.
Have you ever had a bad day?
Yeah, I mean we've had bad days.
And we get a lot of we cover the gap, so that's where a lot of suicides happen up the gap, the gap up at south Head there in the eastern suburbs, and so we get a lot of the body.
Retrievals, and.
That's your area of operations.
So we go up on the jet scheme and people don't realize that.
They don't realize so because the police boat come, it's about a half an hour for them to come around the time they get around, so we try and get there to secure the body before they lose it all together. And so we deal with that and then have to hang onto the body. But now we've got to stay out in the water till the police boat comes around. And that affects a lot of the guys too sometimes and the girls.
Yeah, no, it's I mean early days.
And then I've just accepted that's a part of the job and we've got to train people into that that the longer you're going to be a lifeguard, you either get a resuscitation, you'll get a drowning, you'll get a suicide, you'll get you know, even today when I was coming in here, we had a guy a massive drug overdase
that we're dealing with on the beach. So there's a whole range of things that we're dealing with that you know, it can be quite horrific at times, and that's why we brought in We always trained physically and we're always physically fit, but we never ever trained mentally.
So we brought in a guy about.
Five six years ago, doctor David said, and he's been working a lot with us, and to the point where now everyone will if they've got an issue, they'll come and tell you, whereas back in my day it was like if I said I had an issue with.
Pulling the body in.
It'd be like a tough en app to get on with it, you know, just you wouldn't even there and.
You wouldn't even say it because you're petrified that they think you're weak or.
Something and they get rid of it.
Yeah, and now we've sort of turn that around though, where because we could do a massive incident and it might be saying one o'clock in the day, that incident's gone. You know, the police, the ambulance whatever, take them away. You roll straight back out and keep working.
You're still in that environment, still in the same environment. Not that you can escape it. It's happened. It's happened there, that's right. And then so we just then continue on.
So now it's like the guys, look, I just need to now break or something, or maybe I need to go home or next day they'll ring up and so I need a bit of time off or and we go, okay, well that's fine, that's you know, and they're now saying that and coming forward. And so we've broken that stigma of you know, the typical bloke tough and it's been good that way to try.
And change just just that you know, also being a good team member is recognizing that as well. You know, sometimes you don't need to ask, you know, you shouldn't need to ask if you were part of a team like that. You know, someone should recognize it. Go, hey, yeah, you've just asked someone asking if you're okay. Have you ever had a stand out? It's called a standout rescue? That's that's affected you. You know, that's really sort of yeah, you've taken home.
There's probably a couple of things. My first ever body retrieval, the body had been there a while, and it was in the nineties when you know, we just went out and grabbed them and came back in and on the guys said, I just grabbed the arm, grabbed the arm and it had been the water for a fair while, and the arms is like, come off the socker of the shoulder. So I'm hanging on the I'm making onto the arm, going what am I doing now?
Your joke? So the arm came off, came off.
It came off because there'd been the water for probably a week or more. I'm just going, what am going to do?
I was probably early twenties, early twenties at that stage, so that was like a obviously, and I have back then, and that's the same. You come back in and they go, well. I was just sort of dealing with it, and obviously in those days you don't say anything if it is affecting you. And then it was like I would just all you just go gave a beer after work, Just have a beer, and turn up to work next day, and it's like it's never happened, and then you continue on.
So those sort of things were probably tough in those days. There's a rescue I did a fair few years ago that I thought I'm going to have to let the person go to save myself. It was that critical. So I went into as a normal standard rescue. And when I got to the guy, he was probably probably mid forties and he was really struggling, and I got to him.
We hung on. I just couldn't get out, just kept.
Getting hit by wave after wave after wave, and got stuck there just behind the icebergs, and with him with him, and we're there and I'm trying to battle to get I couldn't go out because the waves kept breaking. I couldn't get He was just hanging on, trying to breathe. He's thinking he's going to die. I'm trying to calm him down as much as I could. But then I got to the point where going kept rolling, the board kept rolling, kept rolling. I just couldn't get out of
that position. And I thought Jesus, then, only time out of thirty two years as a professional lifeguard, I thought I might have to I think I'm going to get out of this spot. I might have to let him go to get because I'm starting a fatigue as well.
I'm getting tired.
We've been there for a while, and you know, you're getting hit, hold in your breath, going under, getting hit again, hit again. It's like getting ragged old and constantly, over and over and over.
And I thought, anyway.
Well, I kept battling with it, and I eventually we got there and got him back in.
And but there was a moment that you thought, I'm going to have to push it.
I thought I'd have to let him go to save myself and bring myself and he would have drowned one hundred percent.
Wouldn't have that was that would have been the end of his life.
What was different? What was Was it just a different movement or just you just got it right?
Well, how do you know, it was just a matter.
I think that we just got that little bit of a lullin in waves and it just gave us that little bit of time time to get a little bit further across, and then I could get washed in with the waves that just couldn't get out of this. We're just we'd go one way the wave had hit and pull us back into that position again. Then I'd make it a bit further and then another wave had come and then we'd have to roll and just pull us
back into the same position again. It was just like back and forward, back and forward, until finally we just got past that point where we could actually I could wash in and not get caught in that position. But when I came to the beach, which I didn't know, he had his nine year old son there waiting on the beach, And then that hit me because I thought, geez, imagine, but to let his father go, I've come in.
They had to face him a.
Nine year old Goo, where's my dad?
Did that sense of Wow, I need to let him go to I've bought him back to you. Yeah, I've bought him back to you.
Yeah, that's the reward, you know, you've achieved something that was quite difficult and out of your control. Like I said before, I'm putting myself in positions that I wouldn't just go and do myself. You know, it's like yourself in going out to war or whatever. You're not you put yourself in positions you never ever put yourself in, and it's something that you know. I don't think people realize that side of life being a lifeguard. And as you said, that's where we need to prepare people when
they're coming on. As you said before, how do you get them ready? Well, that's the stage where they need to be ready.
For anyone more inexperienced. You've lost two people there.
That's right, and that's why we dropped that had the test harder.
We had everything a bit hard because we're putting ourselves that you don't want to put someone in. Employ them, put them out in that position and something happens to them or they die. But we're not invincible, like the ocean's way more powerful than it doesn't matter how good you are, and I think people forget that. Even though we do our job and do it very well, people just think, well, nothing ever happened to us.
Yeah, yeah, our personal safety on you know, on the lifeguards. Yeah, we go out there and do it there. If we get in trouble, they save us.
Yeah, and you know we've got a good I've seen it when I've go I go places, and I've got a pretty good record with resuscitations over the years. And people think hop backs, ye swept. So if someone drops dead and it's just a matter of olders revive.
Them, and we're talking about how many how many.
I've probably done, do you'z have a three two years like proper ones will be up around the forty probably forty to forty to fifty proper like dead, Yeah, dead and funny and bring them back. Early days nineties you didn't have as much of a success rate. But since the defibrillators came in, that's so much better.
They don't even realize what you know that goes on once you scrape away the surface. Talk about psychological resilience, physical resilience, emotional resilience. Which is another one that we touch on, is there's so much that goes on behind the scenes.
Way more than people think. The shows.
Great shows, the good fun side of it. But then, like you said, we will joke around and banter with each other and play jokes on each other, and which is just great and that keeps the sanity I think.
So how did the show come along? Did you just were sitting there and the producers come up and go, hey, guys, we want to film. How did that happen?
It's a funny story because.
Ben Davies, who's the creator of it, he was working in TV as producer and get Away and a few other different types of shows that were going on at the time. This is back in two thousand and four, and then he came on. He said, look, there's not much doing in the TV world over the summer.
I might just come on.
He is a local guy, come on and be a lifeguard, just a casual list.
Yeah, we'll try out. And so he tried out.
We put him on after the Summery goes, I've been born and here, he said. I had no idea what I thought. I knew what lifeguards did, he said, now I'm working here. I'd had no idea they had any resuscitation rescues. Like I was saying that the body retrievers all the other stuff that you don't really know or hear about.
And people lie on the beach and they're in their own world.
And if they said I didn't send any rescues today, we could have been doing rescues in and and out. But they're on the beach, reading a book or talking or run whatever they're doing.
Don't care.
So after that that, Ben said, oh, he came to me said, look, I think there's a TV showing what goes on here. And I said, well, how the hell would I know. I wouldn't have a clue. I just thought, I think he's just talking. He said, give me a bit, I'll go away, have a look and see if we can pick up a production company or just sound some
production companies out and see what they think. Because this type of show, it was sort of before the reality, you know, two thousand and five, two thousand and six, and it was we're sort of a documentary slash reality.
It's a bit of both.
And then he came back and said, look, I think there's a I've got a production companies need to do a pilot, and we do a pilot and then picture to all the different networks. The problem we had is, of course we're employeed by the council, was we had to get permission from the Council to be filmed while at work, and I thought, there's no way that they're going to be allowed that. And I went and saw them, had the whole pitch to them and they said, yeah,
they agreed to it. We got the production company, we did the pilot, and we went off to the networks. Anyway, we've got the Channel ten were interested, but they were worried that, well, what if there's no rescues, what if nothing happens. But I'm going, well, I know you're going to there's plenty of footage, and they go, so we're trying to come in.
They're going, no, I don't know, I don't know, you're the TV. So then they said, we're doing our special. That's all we're going to do in our special.
And that's it off our special.
That was it anyway, So we started filming.
They come in about mid December, go through to about mid March, seven days a week, and then got all the footage. As we're gone, we got a resuscitation which I was involved with as well, and from start we're running into it to the finish where then we were able to get into the ambulance and go to the hospital and follow the whole story right through to the end, and that had never been captured anywhere in the world because most of time camera's coming up, it's half done,
it's we've done it. Whatever that has happened to be there the whole time. Now, that footage then got taken all around the world for training for resuscitation, real life footage. Now that went back to the executives, plus all the gory stuff where the board riding injuries and this cuts to the head, and all the other things spinal injuries and rescues, and then all the fun stuff that happens down there as well, and they said, we've got that much foot of the executive we have to make this
a series. It can't be now anymore saying we got all this footage that was so good that they said, we're.
Going to have to make it a series.
And you knew that anyway. You know, listen, I've lived and breathed these reaches, you listen, trust me.
Tenty plenty of footage.
And then so they did the first season, came back to the second season, and then it just content was just easy content because it's always there, and off it went. It is born, and that went wellwide it's it's been played in nearly every country around the world. Yeah, since then, and we've done eighteen seasons now, so wow.
What was the dynamics of when they came on board and even to now? Does it affect or distract your work? Has it? Have you found it to be you know, something that obviously is beneficial because it highlights the importance of your job and the importance of respecting the sea, et cetera, et cetera, But also on the flip side, has it has there been any sort of moments where you thought, do you know what? This is becoming too much of a distraction. People are getting into the job
now because of you know, ulterior motive. They want to be celebrities. Their heads aren't in it the camera, They're not really focusing on that. They're focusing on the camera.
You know.
You know what I mean by those distractions. As time has gone by, did that ever happen as lifeguards?
Yeah, I'd say at times when it first started. The core group had been working for many years as a lifeguard before the TV came along, So it's just a progression. But ones that did come on maybe you know, eight years time, ten years after the show I had been going, would have had the same sort of thing of they're coming on thinking they're going to be a you know, a celebrit because obviously it happens updoors, it happens up
course for endorsement or whatever else. You know, when you get a profile so people can see that, and then but.
That comes, when that comes before the job, then then you're again those standards are slipping the you know, the job is at risk, you know people at risk. You know, you're actually not gone from saving lives to putting lives in danger, right.
Yeah, And good thing is we kept the standard so hard that did eliminate a lot of those people that wanted to be just the celebrity because they just didn't have the physical or the ability in the ocean to get the job in the first place. So it's still a job we had to apply for through council, had to go through the whole process and structure to get the job.
So it wasn't just a walk up start.
So it made it probably you know, people were trying but just didn't get on. And I think we've got a good group though too over the years that if you've got a bit of a big head or something you got cut down pretty quick, it didn't, or you got shoved out pretty quick.
Yeah, so that side of it was pretty good.
Really we could handle it, even though it didn't you know, and I felt I suppose you know, when you get in those situations, a lot of the jealousy. You can really see the jealousy come into different people, which you didn't expect from some people.
And when you first started off, whether people following you around, how much does it progressed because you're in work mode right, so it's like you keep up, you get the footage. If you don't, then you don't. It was it very much like that from the off.
Yeah, they missed a lot of stuff and the original early days obviously because now there's a lot of go pros, but prior to that, it was two camera crews on the beach, a cameraman on the in the tower all.
The time, and they were running.
You could see the juggling up and down with the camera trying to run to get because we did go and do what we need to do and it was up to them to get the shots.
And it was just yeah, really really funny.
I remember the they used to have it because they didn't know how to shoot it when they first started in the first season because it never been done before, and it was just a massive beach with how are we going to capture all this footage? And they had a girl listening to the dialogue in the in the underneath the tower, and I remember, after a couple of weeks, so how's it all going, I'm thinking, she goes, well, she said, it's been very educational, and I'm thinking, I
can imagine what the guys saying and talking. She's listening every single thing that's going through fair enough. And then I remember, so we used we wear the the arm bands with the mics and we go on the water and it goes in there. And so they wrapped the mic and a condom and then put it in the thing that wraps onto our thing he goes in, so
it's all waterproof. And I remember one of the poor girls they got it to go out of the things, she had to buy bags and bags of condoms and she come back that embarrassed, thinking I don't know what they thoughts and packs.
You imagine going into the shop. But the spend of shame is like the purchase of shame.
A lot of trial and error back in the early days.
But obviously as as we progress, we had the water cameraman. He used to have to you know, we'd say, it looks like it looks people could be getting in trouble here. So he'd off he go his flippers and he's water cameraman and off he goes into the water. And you know, but then obviously once the go pros came in, they're all set now on the boards, they're set on the jet ski, the bikes, the cameras just going with interference.
The interference is not much at all. And to be honest though, even after the first season, you do forget the cameras are there because you get in that mindset of what you're doing that and it's not because it's not scripted.
Or anything like that. You forget. You just go and do it.
You go and you come back and your job yet and then you're talking yeah, then they'll give you you run through the rescue after you've come back out, and then because you're in that adrenaline and when you hear back later on or they put it on there, you go, so do I really say that?
Because you forget what you actually say away.
Brief like you would to anything, right, you're given a debrief. They're recording that and it's real and worn, authentic. What's the most dangerous part of the ocean that most people get caught out on? What's this something to look for that you would never know if I was to go onto a beach in Australia in general.
Well, I think the main thing is that the rips that because people don't.
Understand what is a rip?
I mean a rip.
It's just so waves come in and break on the sandbank and then all the war that comes in needs to go back out again from the shore. So it's just like in, it comes in and it goes back out, so it's got to find like a channel to go back out, and all it is is a flow of water moves around. That's why I'm doing the float to survive now. And it's basically if you float in a rip, you'll float across and end up on a sand bank or where the waves are breaking, which will push you
back in without trying to swim. Because the mistake a lot of people make is their way step. They think they're fine, they go to that area because the waves aren't breaking off their feet. Yeah, and especially Europe when the Europeans when they come here, they're used to the flat so it looks more flat water, not no way, so I go, but that's where the water is moving and pulling away from the beach until they get to
that way. Step two more steps, three more steps, and then sudden they can't stand and they turn around and try and swim as fast as they can back to where they were because they think that was the safe spot, and obviously just exhaust themselves, get tired, keep going out, and then start swallowing water and drown, and that's when we go on rescue. But now we found if we tell them to stop doing it, stop swimming and his float and if they listen, they start then moving with
the rip and we say that's it. Go with the flow of the water, keep going, keep going. And then we say stand up, because we know they're on the sandbank.
Stand up.
They stand up, walk in. So we've reduced our rescues now by doing that by fifty percent.
And there's times.
Where as I said earlier, used the ocean to advantage, and I've had times where guys have been doing rescues down the beach and I'll be the only one there, and I might. I think there's one episode years ago that I had nine or ten people and I had them all drowning in the rip. So I've just got them all to hang on to the board, and I knew we were going to drift across the sand bank. And then we're just drifting across. And then we got to the sandbank. I say, okay, one now to stand
up and walk in. And they all walked in. And I said, when I got back to the beach, I said, look, you don't need me. You all just had to do that. You don't need me there. It's just I was there drifting with you guys. So that made me realize that if everybody floated in the in the ocean, if you're flooded in a river, lake, damn back.
People that say that they can't float, what do you mean? Just like even if you like treading water, but just in a not in a you're not fighting against anything, You're just staying a float.
So we're talking about it's not the starfish floating is the starfish in your back exactly? We call it active floating like treading waters. You're moving your arms sculling, sort.
Of move your legs against anything, letting it take.
That's right, you're not using your energy.
You're breathing normal, and if you breathe normally, you're not then panicking. Once you panic, you breed heavy, you breathe heavy, you're losing all your oction because we've got about four leaders of oxyen the lung so lungs and it's a natural flotation of buoyancy. So once you lose all that, well, then you're you know, you're going to find it hard to stay a flight. So let's just trying to change that mentality now and get people, which we've been doing for probably five six years.
It's just starting down, isn't it could actually swallow the water they start to panic, all the all the has gone from their lungs and then swallowing the water.
You can't.
I mean, if you if you stay afloat in your mouth above water, you don't you can never ever drown.
If you're not spoiling water, you don't drown. And then and also the more you do that, you.
Do it mate. That's you know, if you keep your head above the water and you don't you know, you don't swallow water. You're not going to drown.
Drown, not at all. And people have done it for a long long time. But they can float or just go for ages. And and the longer you can float, the more chance you got someone to come and rescue as well.
Whereas yeah, you're binding yourself time, aren't you.
That's right.
Whereas people just just we caught the karate chop. It's just they're chopping away like this and all they're doing is just doing that to keep the head above water. But how long can you keep doing that for? And it's like punching a bag? How long can you keep in a minute? You're done.
That's all you can do.
And how do you deal with shark attacks? And you know sharks that are present.
Well, we've been lucky.
I mean they years were probably only had one guy lost his hand from a shark. So that was about ten fifteen years ago at BONDOI present. No, it was just we just finished at seven o'clock and then it was just going on to dusk and he was out surfing later and went across there's a bake ball of fish and he's just happened to paddle through the bait ball and as his hand's gone in just grabbed his hand, so that that's about the only thing. But I mean, you often see the sharks and I do a lot
of down when ocean ski paling. We go like a start point about twenty kilometers down the coast, whichever it with the wind and all that. And I've had times where I've one where I've just run straight into one, but it was coming across and I've just hit straight into it. And you often see him you're cruising around, but none have really come up to sort of worry me at all.
But how about on the beach when people because people are petro do you just see him run it in a panicking and helps You've got to calm him all down and go, you know, yeh, there's other cases. As soon as there's a shark siting, is it like everyone up.
Yeah, we try to identify the shark as well to see what you know, because there's only really the three that are dangerous to the other's life. It's a great nurse or things like that. They're not going to they never attack, or a ham ahead they don't really there's no known attacks from certain sharks. It's really just the bull shark the tiger shark and the great white, so you know, if we can establish which one it is, which is sometimes quite hard because you're getting it from
a surfer or someone else. So we have to coordinate it quite well because on a busy day we could have thirty thousand people there, so there's be a whole lot of people that are in the water, and if you hit the alarm, what happens is the panic can give someone a herd attack or something else can happen in the actual stress of trying to get out of the water. So we've got to coordinate it quite well and have everyone staggered along and then we try and
bring them out all in a in one go. But yeah, people do panic and run out and get out of the water pretty quick.
There's a lot of panic about sharks.
But how many years have you been in this industry? How many years you've been.
In life going? So I've done thirty two years.
And how's from man to man? How's your mental health? How has it affected you psychologically? Yeah?
I think at times, you know, you have other things happen in your life and then that triggers things.
That you've dealt with at the beach.
And you know, it's things like that, and it's good we've got in place now because we can ring David said as well outside of work, and you can if you're feeling a bit struggling a bit with something or whatever it is, and then he'll talk through something's not right. And he noticed too with other guys, what if they're not right that day or something's not right and they're a bit different, you know, and normally they're joking around and there's something they're not as javel and things.
Like that, so you can sort of notice it.
And then because I look back now and I think it's good had we've had that and the change of when I was back in the nineties, because I think that was the biggest effect for me was back in the nineties where two of the lifeguards I work with have finished lifeguarding ended up committed suicide. So I'm wondering whether it had something to do with the job in that era and that's the cause, and maybe it's something else outside as well.
And you're probably the prime example to ask this question for even when you're off duty, something can trigger something that takes you back on ye to duce you, right, So that could have possibly had had an effect on those two gentlemen, right, Yes.
Ye, God for sure.
I know because we do a lot of paddles up around with the ocean ski paddling with the squad, and we go up and go past the gap, and when I do those sessions, I never really performed that well when we do those sessions there, and I think it's because I've had so many bodies and I'm going past where I've dealt with all that in the past, and something must trigger me that I just can't. I'm not the same to do it in that when it's around that.
Area, that spot.
So it definitely, yeah, you can recognize. I always thought you always don't seem to paddle that well when I'm in this in this area, and I'm thinking that it's got to be something to do with that, because that's a part of you know, you're seeing people in some pretty bad situations, you know. And the other thing too, though, is what people don't realize. People jumping off the gap, which is one hundred meters or two hundred depending where
you go off. Just because you jump off a cliff doesn't mean you're going to die instantly either.
It all depends how you land. There's plenty.
I've gone up and I've held on to them massive internal injuries, but they're alive, and you hold on until they die on your arms. And in that moment they know they're dying, they're saying, oh, can you tell my kids this, my mom and this my wife this and whatever the reason, and you become a part of that grieving process and it can be quite difficult in that pure and we deal with you know, a.
Lot of that.
And I think people think you jump off and they die in straight away, but doesn't. It all depends on what how you land. You'll have a good you have some good injuries. It doesn't mean you're going to know. And some people have survived as well in certain ways. But it's something that that's something that's pretty big for lifeguards, and a lot of people don't really realize. And the families want to come and see the people that are last with the loved ones.
Of course, you need to become.
Days and days and day grieving.
Yeah, and that can be hard, and that's why we brought in the mental side, so we now train because I didn't believe. I thought when I was dealing with a lot and a lot of the guys were dealing with it. You deal with it and then you get a counselor coming after it. And I thought, the damage is done, and so now we're training our minds that if you.
And David did a lot of work.
With the soldiers who went to Afghanistan and things from Australia, and he's trying this now to say, well, this is your job, this is what's going to happen. You work as a lifeguard, you're going to get all these things are going to happen. And he said, it's like when I explained to people that are going to war, you're all there, you're all mates. You could be there in his head to be.
Blind, none of you. Some of you aren't coming home. That's and that's the way I dealt with it, right. I went into combat, into my operation thinking all of us aren't going to come home. I already prepared myself fifty percent. So when it did happen, and I'd done that by myself, but when it did happen, I was you know, I was already fifty percent there. So you know I was already fifty percent prepared and I could do the other fifty percent with the people in the room,
my teammates, et cetera, et cetera. That's great that.
It's the same sort of yeah, same mentality is that knowing that and preparing that that's going to happen, and also not just being your job you go it's out of our control, where just.
Picking the pieces up try and control what you can't go to.
That's trot and that's that's what we've been trying to work on with a lot of it, and especially younger guys, because it's harder for the younger guys. I mean, I'm lucky now, I've got the lot of experience and you're coming out of that and working on your own mind to get through that. But a young guy at twenty twenty one, yeah, you haven't got the experience to deal with that.
Some that's in place, mate, because that will save lives, like you said, not in the sea, but on the other on the other side of the of the coin, mate, which is it's just deal with those other stuff.
That people probably even know what lifeguards deal with. And you know it's the other side is great. You know, turn up to a beach every day, you get your training break, you go surfing, you go do what you Yeah, that side of it and meeting different people every day, and so there's a great side of being a lifeguard, but there's also that dark side as well that people don't know.
And to wrap up on what's next for you, hopo another series? What you what you're doing?
Yeah, we'll get another season out, another series and then continue on working. I mean, I'm fifty six now, so see how we having more years. I've got your body's.
Keep going on. But look, I'm trying to other stuff with. I got my podcast. I've also got you know, the beach.
Beach. Let's not forget that. Check out hops podcast. Life is a beach. I'll be checking out for sure. So mate, thanks you ever so much for coming on headgame. Mate, keep saving lives. That's all I can say. I know you, I can see you're passionate about I can see the emotion from what you were talking about, mate, And you're born to You're born to save lives, mate, so keep doing it.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
It's been great and it's yeah, it's a passion that's in me, that saving lives is.
That's probably what.
Cheers Poppo has his own podcast. It's called Life's a Beach. If you'd like to check it out, our link the details in the show notes. Thanks for listening to this episode of head Game. If you enjoyed it, please leave me a review. I'm at Middleton. Catch you in the next episode.