Their Words are the Stark Testimony of Those Who Sought New Lives Against All Odds

sailing days will be at an end. It will mean the retirement of what seamen hold to be the most famous sailing vessel afloat. She will be anchored in a tiny inland ocean, a feature in a proposed five acre zoological garden in San Diego. This little coastwise voyage means far more to the average sailor than the layman, aalizes. The sailor still has that inherited feel of the sea. He delights in Viking stories and anything that sails before

the wind enthuses him. He knows his ships as a turfman knows his horses, and records count for as much with the sailor as with the lover of fleetness in the equine world. The older sailors along the Pacific coast delight in pointing out that the keel of the Star of India was laid down sixty three years ago by

Gilson and Company of Ramsey, Scotland. She was christened U Turpi for the English Australian trade and old waterfront captains at San Francisco recall her tall mass stenciled against the skyline in those days when the golden gate never closed on a processional of white sails. Now she is to be rescued from slow disintegration in some hidden cove off the Pacific coast. A place of honor has been assigned her and what is expected to someday prove one of

the most interesting spots in America. Glass tanks will replace the bunks on which slept the hardened men who for half a century brave the elements of seven seas. The Star of India will be um an aquarium. Even though forever beached and her sails furled for all time, she will still be a part of the sea. Except that's not what happened at all. So let's head to San Diego and find out what became of the Star of India.

I'm Amy Brunei and welcome to Haunted Road. Some might call the Star of India a historic trade ship, the most cursed boat in the water, and it's one nine years of sailing. The ship has been trapped in the ice in Alaska and run aground in Hawaii, and has seen cyclones, collisions with other ships, and a crew mutiny that ended in seventeen men being sentenced to hard labor. But others might call it the luckiest ship ever built. Through all these cataclysmic events, the Star of India survived.

In fact, she's still sailing today. Whether she's sailing with icy handed ghosts of sailors who died aboard, though, is a bird debate. There are rumors of strange apparitions and moving objects below her decks. Maybe it's because of all the tragic deaths aboard, or maybe it's because the ship is the oldest actively sailing boat in the world. When she was first built, the Star of India had a different name and a different purpose. She was also a marvel of her time, an iron holed ship in an

era when most boats were constructed of wood. Relatively small, the boat measures two hundred five feet long by thirty five feet wide and has three masts. Originally called the Utterpi after the Greek muse of music, the ship was built in eighteen sixty three in the Isle of man An Island in the Irish Sea between Great Britain and Ireland. In its early sailings, the Utterpi was used to sail jute from India, or at least that's what she was

supposed to do. Her first two sailings were nearly disastrous, filled with so much calamity that she nearly sank and lost all her crew. The uterpis first sailing left Liverpool on January ninth, eighteen sixty four, under the command of Captain William's story. Almost immediately after setting sail, disaster struck. In the middle of the night, the Uturpy collided with an unlit Spanish break off the coast of Whales. The

crash destroyed the jib boom. For you non sailing folk out there like me, that's the large extension off the bow that helps the sales maintain a well projected shape to catch the wind and speed up the ship. The damage was so extensive that seventeen of the ship's thirty crew members refused to continue working until the ship turned into port for repairs. Here's where that mutiny comes in.

According to British sailing history site Mighty sees the Uturpi put into Holy Head Whales on the fifteenth and these men were tried by local magistrates, each being condemned to prison for fourteen days with hard labor after an expert witness stated that the repairs could easily have been made at ze. After five days of repairs, the ship embarked again on January, this time with more than half the original crew replaced, arriving in Calcutta around May. Her second

sailing was no more peaceful. After having successfully sailed from England to India and secured a new load of cargo, the Uturpi departed India and was caught in a cyclone in the Bay of Bengal. This time she lost her top masts and barely made it back to port. Just after On August seven, eighteen sixty six, Captain's Story died from what the BBC described as an unknown tropical disease and was buried at sea with all that bad energy attached to the ships. No surprise, her original owners sold

her after that voyage. After changing hands again in eighteen seventy one, the Uturpie took on a different kind of cargo people. In the years that followed, she made twenty one trips around the world, bringing immigrants to new lands in search of better lives. Most of the passengers were from the United Kingdom heading to New Zealand, though she also made voyages to California, Chile and Australia. But true

to the Uturpies history, those voyages were challenging. The Maritime Museum of San Diego Go, where the Star of India is now docked, says of that time it was rugged voyaging with a little iron ship battling through terrific gales. The ship's log describes the vessel laboring and rolling in a most distressing manner during those storms. At the shortest a voyage to New Zealand took one hundred days and

one hundred forty three days for its longest trip. Both the crew and the passengers suffered during these difficult voyages. Everyone ate a measly diet of hard tack, which is a dense hard biscuit, and salt junk, which is dried salted beef or pork. Many suffered from all the mare, a particular kind of seasickness caused by rolling waves characterized by nausea and dizziness, and other maladies caused by months

cooped up below deck. They were a tough lot, the museum describes, drawn from the working classes of England, Ireland and Scotland, and most went on to prosper in New Zealand. Many babies were born to immigrants on these voyages, including one given the middle name Uturpi and one partially named after Captain Theoe Phillips. Many people also died, though not as many as you might assume based on how difficult some of the sailings were, but there were significant losses.

Seamen died of consumption, dysentery and pneumonia. One had a seizure and fell from a mass to his death. Another was accidentally crushed to death by his crewmates. A crewman was in the chain locker where the anchor chain is stored, where he shouldn't have been, and he became stuck as his mates brought in the anchor to prepare to sail. The noisy machinery masked the sound of the screams of the trapped victim as he was crushed by the enormously

heavy chain. Child passengers were especially vulnerable. Babies were still born on the ship, Infants perished, and families lost very young children more than once. One of the most tragic losses befell Emily and Charles brad from Middlesex, England, who were traveling on the Uterpi with their four children. On the six month voyage. Two of the kids, eight year old Emily and two year old Jesse, passed away. Another

family faced a similarly horrific situation. Mary and Thomas Osborne traveled aboard the Uturpi with their nine children, five sons and four daughters. Four year old George died at sea, followed by infant Thomas Jr. Mary gave birth to a baby girl aboard the ship, but the newborn passed away shortly after. The Journal of San Diego History wrote about a collection of diaries and letters donated by New Zealanders

descended from passengers on the Uturpi. The journal describes these letters by saying they tell us of yards and sales riven by shrieking gales, of mountainous seas and vast icebergs, of standing off and on before barren, iron bound coasts, of the immigrants, hunger and their battles with ship rats and each other of men swept off the bowsprit into the churnings of the seat, of a captain's gory suicide, and of the great joy and relief of all hands

on sighting land. Their words are the stark testimony of those who sought new lives against all odds, braving hazards men would think impossible today. In nineteen o one, the ship was sold again, purchased by the Alaska Packer Association to service the state's salmon canneries. For over twenty years, she carried fishermen and canary workers, as well as coal and other supplies, from Oakland, California, to Alaska, and would

return laden with canned salmon. It was during this time that the Uturpi became the Star of India, so named to be consistent with the rest of the association's fleet. In nineteen six the Star of India was steered toward another new path. A group of friends in San Diego bartered for the boat, aiming to build a museum and

aquarium around her. The project was sidelined because of the Great depression in World War Two, and the ship lay dormant until nineteen fifty seven, when renovations finally started, though they took a long time to complete. In nineteen seventy six,

the Star of India was put to sea again. Now moored at the Maritime Museum of and Diego, the Star of India is a floating history lesson, welcoming visitors to walk her decks and descend below to see what life would have been like on the ship up until she made one single annual sail a year with a crew of volunteers from the museum who trained all year to be able to operate The Star of India on her day long departure from her mooring. The museum, though still

describes her as an active sailing ship. In addition to all of that, she holds many distinctions. She's on the National Register of Historic Places and is designated a National Historic Landmark. She's the fourth oldest ship in the United States and the oldest iron holed merchant ships still afloat. She's also the oldest ship in the world still sailing regularly. Unlike many other preserved or restored ships, her whole cabins

and equipment are all largely original. Maybe it's because so much of the ship is still original that there are so many rumors of hauntings and strange activities aboard the Star of India. One such story comes from the story of John Campbell, a teenage stowaway who snuck his way into the crew in four Shortly after being put to work, Campbell was high in the rigging and lost his footing,

falling one feet to the deck below. Both his legs were crushed, but Campbell survived three long days before he died and was buried at sea. Visitors who are near the mast Campbell fell from will sometimes report feeling the touch of a cold hand. In the ship's galley, where the food was prepared, people still report smelling freshly baked bread, even though it's been nearly a century since anything was

baked in that kitchen. Visitors have also claimed to have seen pots and pans above the stove moving, even though the ship is sitting calmly in the water. The chain locker, where the crew member was crushed to death by equipment is said to be a paranormally active spot, and the sailor's quarters are also plagued with spiritual activity after witnessing

much death and suffering. Crewmen who were sick or injured spent their last days in that area, and visitors report feeling cold spots in those areas, being overcome with residual fear and sadness in the space. To talk more about the hauntings on board the Star of India, I have called in my old friend. You might know him, Britt Griffith. Britta and I go way back, way way back, and

we once start on TV's Ghost Hunters together. He was the first person who told me of the Star of India, and after having investigated it multiple times, he's got some crazy stories to tell. That's coming up after the break. All right, So I am currently on the line with one of my oldest dearest friends. And I don't mean like old, I mean like we've been friends for a very long time. I well, I was trying to not call you old and then it just kind of but

I mean you're not old, clearly. I mean my oldest friend is in like we go a wait, wait, we back like pre TV, pre ghost Hunters. You were the one that really introduced me to the Star of India, and I know you investigated it quite a bit. So I was like, I'm going to bring Britt. This is my chance to bring Britt on. So Britt Griffith is a ghost Hunter's alumni paranormal investigator, like I said, very dear friend, and we have basically, I mean, I feel

like our two teams way back in the day. Like you were working on a Southern California team, I was on a Northern California team, and we were all like Taps family teams and god well, but actually, honestly, Amy, we we we were on teams before Ghost Hunters even hit the air in October of two thousand four. So many people think I did the paranormal because I was on Teaving. The reality was we were doing this long

before that show was on the air. Absolutely. And what I loved is that our teams worked together was so because we were NorCal you were so cowed. We would come together for like the Central California cases, Fresno, California. We did a lot of Fresno and Baker's Field and clothing. I remember we investigated like this crazy Mexican restaurant once. Actually there's a story on that one. Okay, So anyone who listens to this podcast knows that I love to share stories, and so let me tell you, I do

know Britt very well. And when Britt does something, Britt does not do something halfway. Britt goes all in. And so as you became a paranormal investigator, you bought and designed and researched every single piece of like paranormal technical research equipment you could get your hands on. That's how you ended up on gh AS, like helping with all the tech. And so I remember the first time I met Britt. He pulled up in literally an ambulance that he bought, filled with ghost gear, and I was, who

is this guy? Right? So the first you were like, this dude's weird. And then you had a hearse to which you did not use for the ghost of gear, but you had, and I was like, all right, this guy is office rocker. But I will never forget you. When we were investigating that Mexican restaurant, you were like, you know, let's all like car pool. I think we all stayed at like a local hotel or something. We

car pooled. And so I wrote in the ambulance and I sat in the back and I buckled my seatbelt and I was like this is such a novelty, this is so cool whatever, And then we get there and I'm like, I can't get my seatbelt off. My seatbelt is not my seatbelt is not coming undone, and I'm like sitting there, I'm kind of struggling with it. And then the door opens and there's Britt and he's got a camera and he's like, Amy, what's going on? You

got a problem, but oh are you stuck? And I'm like I'm stuck in my seatbelt, like and you wouldn't help me, you just kept filming me. And so then fast forward to like a year, so he has this video of me. So fast forward to a year or two later. We're on the Queen Mary for like I

think it was a Dave Schrader event. Jason and Grant from Ghost Hunters are lecturing and we were dear friends and I was helping them with their podcast at the time, and so their lecturing and they called me into the lecture hall and they're like introducing me, like, hey, this is Amy. She's our producer for our podcast. And they're like Amy, Oh, we wanted to show you something, and they played the video of me stuck in the ambulance in front of hundreds of people. Yeah, that was the

good old days. But we had some great times. And that ambulance was very convenient because it carried all the equipment and it gave us a place to sit outside of the location and not in the weather. Oh totally. It was like the it was like our taps fan basically, but I actually felt like the ambulance was kind of more conducive to that because it had all these different compartments. So,

and you were very organized with it all. And so obviously there were a lot of, you know, Ghostbusters jokes made at our expense, but we are very used to that by now, so that's par for the course. If we're not getting the Ghostbusters joke, then we're doing something wrong. Yeah, And to be honest with you, I wish we had Ghostbusters paychecks because then we wouldn't have to work for a living. That's very true. So but that's okay, that's okay.

I think we're we're good. We're good. We've had we had the experiences, so okay, So tell me, do you, like, when did you first start investigating the Star of India and how did that come about? So the team that I was on Obviously we were southern California, and leader of our team actually lived in San Diego, and he had a relationship with the manager or somebody who had something to do with that Maritime museum because they have like seven eight ships down there now, and uh, they

had always had ghost stories from the night Watch. We've always had a hard time keeping night security on those ships because not only the Star of India that's there, but that Berkeley ship is there, and then there was a Russian submarine that was there, and all three of

them are haunted. And so the night manager this and this was right about the first season of ghost Hunters, which gave the manager enough courage to actually talk about it, because, I mean, most people don't realize, but before ghost Hunters came on the air, talking about the paranormal was was a hush hush thing or you were crazy, and trying to get people to let us into buildings was a

pain because they would just laugh at us. But ghost Hunters happened, so the manager knew that Dave was into the paranormal world, and he finally reached out to Dave and said, hey, you know, we just had another night security guy quit because of ghosts, which I don't believe in, but you know, I know you're into it. Do you think you can come out with your team and blah blah blah. And that's how we got in there was

because they couldn't keep their night security. They kept losing employees and reached out to Day and then Day was like, yeah, sure, and we went down and did it. And I mean the first night we were there, back then before ghost Hunters, when we would go to a place, the spirit wald wasn't used to being acknowledged, reached out to, or like we were doing trying to make contact. Most of the time the spirit wal will be seen or heard, people would freak and run. But the Star video the first

time we were there, we had activity. We had interactually had K two hits, we had E d P, we had it was like run up the bat. It was active, which was really cool because normally takes a couple of nights for the other side, whatever we're dealing with, to get used to us reaching out to them and then then going right, I guess we can kind of reach out back and then the evidence collecting starts. Really No

one takes a couple of days. Today now it's like it's almost like the spirit world expects to be talked to almost, so it's a little different now. Yeah, No, that actually makes sense because I feel like you guys are probably the first ones to actually investigate the ship, and there's been paranormal reports coming out of there for a very long time. The history is very interesting. It's had many different incarnations, so it makes sense that it

would be very haunted. But I'm just guessing that those spirits, you know, had gone decades just kind of trying to get attention or trying to get someone to reach out to them, and then finally you guys get there, and so yeah, it makes sense that right off the bat they would start trying to interact. And see you did obviously you did the Ghost Hunters investigations, but I can't remember did you go there with your team on on

your own or was that was your experience the show. No, it was just when we went with Ghost Hunters, But we were there. I feel like we were there for three nights because we were also doing the Berkeley next Door and so we were just like normally we were there for a couple of nights with g JR. One night, but I think we were there for I remember being in San Diego for quite a while for those cases. Yeah,

and we were there two and a half weeks. Yeah, yeah, And so I do remember it very distinctly, and I remember hearing footsteps, I remember seeing a shadow figure downstairs. And this was one of the first cases that they So I had already investigated in Alameda and in Clovis, and I thought I was going back to work in my project manager job, and they were like, hey, want to go to San Diego. So I was like, I guess. So, so this was, like, I want to say, my third

or fourth case. It's not the easiest place to investigate because it's downtown, it's on the water, and it's an old ship. It makes a lot of noises, but it's steel hold or whatever, so it's not like a just a wooden ship creaking and stuff, so you do have some control. But still it was a challenge and I remember thinking at the time, I was like, how are we going to do this? But we did it and it worked out, and you're right, it is a happy

is cast iron. The steel hole, which is the only reason why that ship is around today because at the time most of the ships were made of wood and then that rots. But the only reason that ship still afloat today, still sells today, it's a hundred and sixty two years old, is because the whole was made so thick of steel and we get to experience it today. Most people don't realize it, but back then, the ships were made of wood because it was the most economical

way to do it. But those ships, you know, they don't last a hundred sixty years, like you know, Star Indians a hundred six years old, and the only reason was because the original owners paid the extra money to have that extra thick still whole. And she's still around today.

I mean she's literally Costar certified Hunters since two years later, the world's oldest selling ship on the planet, which is really kind of cool, and we can investigated and looked for, I know, And that was one of those kind of surreal moments for me too. I was like, oh my gosh,

we're investigating this ship. And I actually went back to San Diego recently just for a stopover when we were coming back from a vacation in Hawaii, when we stayed the night there, and I showed it to my daughter and I was like, that was one of my first cases on Ghost Hunters. Like, but it's beautiful, like it she just stands. They light her up and like she's definitely getting the accolades she deserves. But I don't know that everybody fully realizes, like what is going on in there?

It is very creepy. I do remember distinctly the footsteps are a big one, and I know you would experience that. Was one of the things you told me about before we even investigated there for Ghost Hunters was the footsteps situation. Now do you remember what you experienced there with footsteps? Because I do, but you should probably tell the story.

Well again, I was working with Jane Grant. But we hear footsteps all the time, and we hear ghostly sounds, and we hear a lot of door shutting and when but what what blows my mind about the Star of India. And this actually happened on tape. You can go to

the show and watch it. We heard the footsteps. We were in the in between deck they called the tween deck, which is a really low ceiling deck kind of captain's quarters and whatnot, and we heard the footsteps and I put my hands on this what was the ceiling for me, but the floor for the top deck, and I could feel them walking towards me, and it was like it's like they were distant and as you hear them, they're they're soft, they get louder, and then they get soft again.

We'll think of that as you put your hands on the floor or the ceiling. And it was like soft, harder, harder, harder, hard right on the top of me, and then soft again as it went over me. And for me it was like, holy crap, I got I felt another thing. I hear that. I felt that, And then it spurred thousand more questions of so this thing has mass that it can actually impact the wood and vibrate the wood to where I can feel it. So there's so there's

mass there. So does that mean this ghost could you know, move an object? Oh well, maybe that's how they're doing it. Can the ghost hurt somebody like you know, punch, roll, push, whatever? It was so many questions that blew my mind. And then when we finally went up top to see what was up top, it was the path that the wheelman would walk to go to the original Star of India.

Wheel It's moved now, it's not where it originally was at, but back in the day, that footpath and where it stopped was right at the original wheelhouse for the Star of India, which makes perfect sense. So we had this amazing experience that we could hear, that we could feel, and then it actually logically made sense for that activity

to be where it was at. And that's the need that the really cool, above par awesome thing about the Star of India is the activity lines up with what was going on back in the day, even though it's kind of changed a little bit. Yeah, and that was one of the first times that it kind of dawned on me, like there are different kinds of footsteps you can experience as an investigator, because that's when we started

using geophones. Now, geophones are a device that will light up when they sense vibration, and so sometimes you'll hear footsteps and you'll just hear footsteps and there's no vibration. They're just kind of like these phantom footsteps. But other times you'll hear footsteps and no one is there and they will come like they will happen, and you'll hear creaking of floorboards or you'll actually feel the floor kind of moving as though someone is walking towards you. And

that's what you experienced there. But I don't think before that I had kind of realized that there was a difference, or even new to look for a difference. I don't know necessarily what that means either as far as like

what does that mean for that spirit? If a spirit can manifest enough to make something move, is that a stronger spirit or is that more of an intelligent spirit versus just kind of phantom footsteps that don't affect the surround You know, these are all questions that come up, and so something like that we get very excited about. And I remember all of us being like, what is happening? And also we went back and we checked the DVR

we had. It was very easy to cover the Star of India because it's not a huge vessel, and so we were able to like make sure we had every um deck covered with the camera and there was no one up there when that happened. No, there was not. And the edicol thing was is that when Grant went up to recreate it, it felt exactly the same. Right now, do you remember what the night watchmen were experiencing? Specifically

that was making them quit by by chance. It was visual, it was seeing stuff, shadows, ghostly type figures, and it was sounds. It was audible talking sounds and chains rattling. Yeah, I mean that that makes sense. And it's I always we hear from night watchman or security guard quite often because they're there in the dead of night when everything's quiet, and I can't imagine signing on for that job. And what kind of surprises you get in a place like

the Star of India. Now, what other experiences have you either had there or have you heard of having or I'm sorry, what other experiences have you had? You know what I mean, what other experiences have you had there? Have you heard of other people having there? Well? The other thing that I mean when we were there for the show, for the people that want to go watch the show, I mean, there was those shadows that were

happening that we actually documented on camera. The you know, the shadow getting in between the light and and the cameras of the light would dim out, and that we were we were seeing with our eyes and the camera documented it. And we know no one was there because as skilled investigators were smart enough to experience the activity, take it all in and then immediately get to the area and just try to debunk it. So we were able to get in the area, there's no one there.

The shadow movement going on. And I don't know if this is just science of the motion of the ocean or whatever. But do you remember that, you know the ropes hanging with the sandbags, and then there would be like four of them lined up and only one rope sandbag would be swinging while the other three were still still perfectly still not moving at all. I mean, what was that all about? Why would just one sandbag on a rope hanging rock and the other three that are

next to it not rock. What is that all about? I don't know. Yeah, I don't know either. I mean that could be movement, of course, but also on the ship stock. But I guess it is moving a little bit. Now, remind me and if I get this wrong, we'll just cut This was the star of India that what had the the popping shrimp underneath it? Or was that? Yes? Yes, I just remember being deep in the bottom of this ship and there are these weird shrimp and so these are the things that have to deal with as a

paranormal investigator. There were these these popping shrimp. And I went down there and I was like, what is happening to this? I thought the thing was sinking, but they all night just popped so loudly. And if you didn't know what those were, I don't know what you would think was happening or what you would think you were experiencing. I mean, and that, you know, again part of being an investigator having to discern between you know, popping shrimp

and ghosts. But I mean, I do think that when you're investigating a place like that, you do have to deal with extraordinary circumstances. My local team we had investigated it before. We knew about that, so we let Jane Grant know so that But I don't think they told you guys because they want you to experience it first. Or did you know when you were going down there. I can't remember how that ruled out. Oh yeah, okay, so they let you go in blind and then they

explained it. But yeah, we knew about that ahead of time, and that was the nice The nice thing about the show is some of the some of the places we went were kind of pre screened for us, so we can rule a bunch of stuff out and not waste time, so we could look for actual activity. But the cool think about the popping shrimp that most people don't know is the popping sound. It's something in it at the tail the foot. I don't know something, but it's moving.

It's breaking the speed of sound. So that's what that pop sound is. Whatever's in it is going so fast is breaking the sound barrier. So bizarre. That is the only place I've ever experienced the popping shrimp, and I've never experienced it since. But yeah, it makes perfect sense that they would not have told me. I barely knew I was going to that investigation. I just kind of appeared in San Diego one day and I was like, I guess, I'm this is what I'm doing for the

rest of my life. You are? I mean, I knew i'd be looking for ghosts. I just didn't know. I kind of just assumed it would be like, Oh, I'll just do a few episodes of this show ghost Hunters

yet and and then I never went home again. So yeah, I do think there's just so much lore around ships and their ghosts, and I almost feel like that adds to the activity, because I do think that sailors and people who spend a lot of their life on the water are just particularly superstitious, and they do put a lot of stock in kind of the spiritual side of what they do. And do you think that's why the Star of India still has so much going on? I think there's a lot to the Star of India. And

there's there's stuff. Okay, I'm start with the happy stuff first. So a sailor, the ship to a sailor is it's is his mother. And the reason that you know, the lower the superstition is you never have a woman on a on a ship back then, is because the only woman in that sailor's life is supposed to be the ship, not another woman running around the decks, because then that creates strife among the man, et cetera. But the but to a sailor, they want to be in the ocean.

They want to be with their woman, which is their ship. And that's why when they die, if you haven't if we have a choice to go where we want to go, a sailor would probably pick their ship. That's where they want to go. But the Star of India did twenty something trips around the world before late eighteen eighties, and that was in the human immigrant trade. They brought families over, immigrant families. They started bringing them from all over, like

that was the business of the ship. And so there would be entire families they're including children, and there were babies born on that ship. And I feel like I don't think any of us can understand today, well most of us cannot understand today the desperation of kind of going into the unknown and getting on a ship like that with your entire family and just hoping you make it to the other side. And they ate terribly and it was miserable, like absolutely miserable, and people did die

on board, people were very sick. Not as many people died on boards I think people would assume under those conditions, but that I feel like that desperation leads to some sort of manifestation of energy, whether or not it is them they're like in their conscious state, or just that bit of them that was holding onto so much hope in that ship. Like I would love to get back there eventually and do like a more kind of a longer investigation and find out more about who is actually there.

But a lot of emotion, and it makes complete sense

why it would be haunted. Do you think it's possible that like a location like the Star of India where you have so many people going through there and so many highly emotional experience is happening, whether it's terror or love of the ship, but that that random energy that's kind of floating around, that it can kind of connect to each other and then make coalesce all of its energy from the various other spirits that are there then to be able to do those footsteps or to make

that shadow appear or make that voice sound. I mean, can you think that the spirit world can work on its side, work together to then send a signal to our side. I think that that kind of emotion can even create ghosts, you know, not necessarily, like, but I do think that it does be come something over time. And then if you have people touring it every day and kind of revisiting those experiences and bringing it up

again and again, we're talking about the hauntings again and again. Like, I do feel like that kind of either keeps it alive or kind of awakens it. And so I wouldn't be surprised if they have things going on now. I know they have not. I think they haven't really done a lot of investigations. I haven't heard a lot about ghost tours or anything going on there, but I do hear of it as being a haunted spot. Whenever I'm in San Diego, people are like, go to the Star

of India, go to the Whaley House. You know, they know it's haunted. I just I can't help but wonder if that has something to do with it, because you just you do not have ships like that still in existence that have that went through that same history. Yeah, I know you don't. And I do know that around the Halloween time they do do a haunted tour. I have seen that, but it's it's not like an investigation. It's more of a guided tour with dose sets, telling

tall tales and entertaining the crowd type of thing. But you are right. I mean they're at least at least once a week I get a message from somebody on the socials. Have you been to the Haunted Star of India,

like a few times. Yeah, it's lower is out there, And you are right, And and maybe we are energy about that ship and people that go to that ship looking for the ghost, that our collective energy is feeding the spirit side energy, almost like they could plug into us and then they make happen what they make happen, which is it's cool and scary at the same time. It wouldn't surprise me one bit. Well, hopefully they will invite us back soon and and yeah, Candred Spirits, that

would be fabulous. I would love to go to San Diego. So Star of India, if you're listening, we're looking for cases, so if there's anyone there. But I mean, aside from aside from that, it has been lovely talking with you. As always, I do appreciate you taking the time. I know this interview was not easy because I'm currently in Europe and so the time change and everything has been bonkers.

But thank you for sticking with me and chatting about old times and the very haunted Star of India's Hopefully we can get back there soon. That would be amazing. I will watch that episode for sure. Well, thank you again and um yeah, hopefully we'll see each other again soon. So I hope you and the family are well after they are and same to you. Safe travels. I can't wait for your season premiere. Obviously, the Star of India holds a special place in my Heart having been one

of the first ever cases I did on Ghost Hunters. Well, I definitely investigated the paranormal prior to my appearance on your TV screens. Those early years of g H actually hold a lot of nostalgia for me. That aside, the Star of India is one of those strange dichotomies in a tourist world. You have kids happily skipping below deck, or people once pinned all their hopes and dreams, barely surviving,

just trying to make a better life. You have her beautiful silhouette backdrop against the iconic San Diego waterfront, with many probably walking past, not knowing what secrets and energy the wood and steel holds deep in its bones. Hopefully the spirits there have found their way, following the star that was always meant to guide them. I'm Amy Bruney and this was Haunted Road. Haunted Road is a production of I Heart Radio and Grim and Mild from Aaron Mankey.

Haunted Road is hosted and written by me Amy Bruney, additional research by Taylor Haggerdorn. The show is edited and produced by rema El Kali and supervising producer Josh Thing and executive producers Aaron Manky, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.