S2 – 8: The Grey Ghost

There were two of us on the deck on the aft of the ship, and we were manning the six inch gun in case we came under attack. What good we could have done with one gun, I've no idea. A cruiser called the h M S. Curaso met us two hundred miles off the coast to escort us into Grenock. I could see her clearly as I was on the aft. We could see our escort zig zagging in front of us. It was common for the ships and cruisers to zig zag to confuse the U boats. In this particular case, however,

the escort was very very close to us. I said to my mate, you know, she's zig zigging all over the place in front of us. I'm sure we're going to hit her. And sure enough, the Queen Mary sliced the cruiser into like a piece of butter, straight through the six inch armored plating. The Queen Mary just carried on going. We were doing about twenty five knots. It was the policy not to stop and pick up survivors,

even if they were waving at you. It was too dangerous as the threat of U boats was always present. This is the personal account of an Alfred Johnson, taken from an article in World War Two. Today, it's just one bit of history from the Gray Ghost, and there's a lot more to tell. So let tad to Long Beach, California and stroll the decks of the mighty Queen Mary.

I'm Amy Brunei, and welcome to Haunted Road. The Queen Mary was built in nineteen thirty and Clyde Bank, Scotland by Kunard Line, a British cruise line based at Carnival House in Southampton, England. The project was initially known as Job number five three four and due to the economic setback induced by the Great depression. The ship's construction was finished in three and a half years and cost three point five million pounds sterling, which is equivalent to four

point eight million in today's US dollars. Connard decided to name the ship after Queen Victoria, but as legend has it, Canard directors went to ask King George for his blessing of the ship's proposed name. We have decided to name our new ship after England's greatest queen, says the Queen Mary website. But King George's reported response was, my wife, Queen Mary, will be delighted that you are naming the ship after her. I'm nineteen thirty six the Queen Mary

set sail on her maiden voyage, departing from Southampton. The ship was constructed with five dining halls and lounges, two cocktail bars, two pools, a grand ballroom, a squash court, and even a small hospital. The Queen Mary had set the bar for transatlantic travel, catering to the rich and famous, who were typically the only people who traveled at that time. Again, according to the Queen Mary website, the day the Queen Mary was christened in nineteen thirty four, a well known

English psychic by the name of Lady Mabel Fortescue. Harrison predicted the Queen Mary will know her greatest fame in popularity when she never sails another mile or carries another fair paying passenger. For three years after her maiden voyage, the Queen Mary was the grandest ocean liner in the world, carrying Hollywood celebrities like Bob Hope and Clark Gable, Royalty like the Duke and Duchess of Windsor, and dignitaries like Winston Churchill. During this time she even set a new

speed record, which she held for fourteen years. Queen Mary made her last peacetime voyage from Southampton on August nineteen thirty nine. Upon arrival in New York, the ship was birthed in the relative safety of the U s Port while World War Two commenced in Europe. She remained there until the end of the year as the war escalated and British Admiralty decided what role the ship would play

in the coming months and years. Having been joined in New York by Normandy and the newly launched Queen Elizabeth. For a brief period, three of the world's largest transatlantic liners sat idle together in the harbor. The trio were also joined by the second more to Ya. According to maritime historian Chris Kunard. In March nineteen forty, Queen Mary was called into military service. She sailed from New York bound for Sydney, Australia, to prepare for her wartime duties.

Upon her arrival in Australia, she was sent to dry dock and work commenced to convert the ship into a troop carrier. Queen Mary's luxury fittings and interior were removed and safely stored. In their place, thousands of bunks and hammocks were installed, while the ship's large public areas were

rearranged into mess halls and offices for military purposes. To protect the ship, small caliber guns were fitted on the Queen Mary, including anti aircraft guns on her open decks, but it was the Queen Mary's speed that would be her main protection against possible attack. To that end, the liner was ordered to sail at high speed when carrying troops to avoid danger from the enemy. On May four, nineteen forty, Queen Mary departed Sydney with troops of the

Australian Imperial Force on board. Bound for the River Clyde, Scotland. After operating on this route and various others, Queen Mary concentrated on voyages between Australian ports and Singapore to the Gulf of Suez. When the United States of America entered the war on the side of the Allies in nineteen forty one, Queen Mary's trooping capacity was increased to over fifteen thousand people. Following further refurbishment, she entered service in her new role as a mass transport of troops on

the North Atlantic. It was on this service that Queen Mary carried the most people ever transported by a ship, sixteen thousand, six hundred eighty three people in one voyage, a record she still holds to this day. Keep in mind the original capacity for the Queen Mary was just over two thousand passengers and eleven hundred crew. It was during the Queen Mary's tenure as a group transport for the U S Army that the ship gained her nickname

the Gray Ghost. Hitler even put a two d fifty thousand dollar bounty out on her and her sister ship, the Queen Elizabeth, But the speed of an average U boat was eleven knots surfaced and seven knots submerged. Even later in the war, when it was increased to seventeen knots of twenty four knots, they couldn't come close to

the twenty eight not average of the Queen Mary. According to the book Ghosts of the Queen Mary, many a submarine skipper would get the ship in his sights, only to watch it steam out of range over the horizon long before the order to fire could be given. It was during her service that the Queen Mary was involved in a horrendous accident with the Curaso. As sighted in the beginning of this episode. On that day in ninety two,

the Queen Mary was on a standard zigzag course. It may have been difficult for HMS Curaso to interpret what phase of the zigzag she was on when they met, or it may have been that the HMS Curaso just didn't have the speed. The two ships found themselves on a collision course. Both captains were informed, and both believed the other would take evasive action. The consequences were tragic. The Croso was sliced in half and sunk, with the loss of three hundred thirty seven men. As per protocols.

In such situations, the Queen Mary did not stop and did not slow down protocol or not. I can't imagine how haunting that must have been for all on board. At the end of the war, Queen Mary was used in the urgent and time consuming task of repatriating thousands

of servicemen. Following this duty, the ship was utilized on the War Bride Service, thirteen voyages that eventually carried twenty thousand brides who had met and married their husbands while they were serving across the Atlantic, now to be reunited in America. Queen Mary and her sister ship, Queen Elizabeth, were essential in the wartime effort, with Winston Churchill declaring without their aid, the day of final victory must unquestionably

have been postponed. After the war, the Queen Mary had a second or third act. According to Ghosts of the Queen Mary, her whole was scraped and repainted. Thousands of workers labored day and night to remove the many scars left by her time at war. All of her public areas,

as well as her cabins, were completely restored. Her decks and railings were resurfaced, New carpets installed throughout the ship, and all of the exotic woods and artworks that had been languishing in warehouses during the war were now back to where they could be enjoyed again. All the crew cabins were updated and improved. Probably the largest change came

in changes to passenger cabins. The new configuration consisted of seven hundred eleven first class staterooms, seven hundred seven second class staterooms, and five hundred seventy seven cabins for third class passengers. Following their refit, Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth dominated the transatlantic passenger trade as Nard's White Stars to ship weekly express service through the latter half of the nineteen forties and well into the nineteen fifties. They proved

highly profitable for Kunard. In nineteen fifty eight, though, the first transatlantic flight by a jet aircraft began a completely new era of competition for the Canard Queens, With a London New York travel time of just seven to eight hours now possible. With the new aircraft, demand for a sea crossing of the Ocean fell away markedly on some voyages. Winters, especially Queen Mary, sailed into Harbor with more crew than passengers. Though both she and Queen Elizabeth still averaged over a

thousand passengers per crossing into the mid nineteen sixties. By nineteen sixty five, the entire Conard fleet was operating at a loss. In April nineteen sixty seven, the Queen Mary was offered for sale, and the city of Long Beach submitted the winning bid of three million, four hundred fifty thousand dollars. Canard's grandest ship made a thirty nine day voyage from her homeport in England across the Atlantic and

around Cape Horn to southern California. A more direct route was impossible she was too large to fit through the Panama Canal. In nineteen sixty seven, construction began to convert the former ocean liner into a floating hotel and tourist attraction. The transformation required connecting the ship's utilities and plumbing to the land, as well as converting her to American electrical standards.

The largest project involved clearing out almost everything below our deck, boiler rooms, the forward engine room, both turbogenerator rooms, stabilizers, and the water softening plant to make way for a four hundred thousand square foot museum. Fittingly Grand banquets. Spaces were created within the main lounges and dining rooms. The Mary opened to an enthusiastic public in May nineteen seventy one. She was placed on the National Register of Historic Places

in Ninete. Today, the Queen features three D fourteen staterooms, including nine sweets on three decks. Other than the Curroso incident, there were deaths on board the Queen Mary. According to documentation, at least forty one passengers died on board over the years, and sixteen crew members. Of course, accordingly, the ship is haunted. It's one of the most famously haunted locations in the world.

Regularly encountered happenings include shadow figures, apparitions in full period dress, voices, balls of light, the sounds of children giggling, and people being touched. Over the years, many ghostly characters have developed. Whether any of them actually coincide with documented deaths on board is hotly debated. Probably the most famous ghost reported is that of a little girl dubbed Jackie, who was regularly seen in the first class pool area. She has

also been cited in one of the boiler rooms. Others report someone named John Henry reportedly Henry worked in the boiler room, and it was there that his remains were found. Folks regularly reports seeing Henry's shadowy figure, some claim to

have actual conversations with him. Room B three forty is reported to be the most notoriously haunted suite on board, and you can even book it as such, with stories told of a third class passenger who passed away in the room, and then years later a woman waking to a man standing at the foot of her bed. Again, years later, guests have reported staying in the room and hearing knocking on the door and seeing lights mysteriously turn

on and off. But Room B three forty fun fact, Disney was looking to turn the Queen Mary into an extension of their empire. At one point, to demonstrate this, they decked out an entire room with haunting things like faucets that turned on and off, floorboards that creaked, a holographic crew member, and more. However, the project was abandoned and the room was left closed for many years. They

thought they had disconnected all those special effects. When they reopened it to the public, they hadn't, and from there the room took on a life of its own. That Room B three forty. Speaking of special effects, I want to chat with someone next to may surprise you. Aidan Sinclair is a world renowned magician who, after beginning a magic show on the Queen Mary encountered things even beyond his explanation. He'll also fill us in on the possible

future of the ship. She's been in the headlines a lot lately, having closed due to the pandemic with no guarantee of reopening. That is all coming up after the break. Okay, So I am sitting here with one of my favorite people in the world, a person who it has been way too long since I saw them. Thanks Pandemic of Magic. Shin Aiden Sinclair. Hello, Aiden, thanks for having me, of course happy to you know. I often think back to when I met you, and I remember it was years ago.

We were at the Stanley Hotel, and I feel like it was Grant who introduced us, Grant Wilson, and I just remember at one point it was I was having a Strange Escapes event there and I descended the staircase one day to see this crowd in the lobby around someone, and as I got closer, I see this gentleman, you like literally doing card tricks, and everyone's just like, oh my gosh, you just just entertaining a crowd of like twenty or thirty people in the lobby, and everyone, including myself,

we were just transfixed. So and never since I think I had you on some strange escapes events after that, and now you're doing like massive, just beautifully Victorian themed Seyance type magic shows. They're just dreamy and you're doing them at all these haunted locations. So I love watching

your work. It's been a ride, I view, and granted thing though for taking me from a kind of magician skeptic, which is pretty typical in the magic community, to going out and investigating and seeing things that I have no explanation for, which is a way cooler way to live. It's been really neat to be able to investigate and kind of dabble there, let's see all those things that

kind of make you wonder. Oh yeah. What I love is that you have that kind of magician mindset where like you know how things can work and look unexplained. It was kind of neat, Like when we had Dave Tango on Ghost Hunters. You know, he's like a hobbyist magician, but there's an eye there that the rest of us like, we don't have that that kind of like I don't want to say trickery, but you just know how things can happen, not necessarily in a paranormal sense, and so

I find it to be very useful. It's been cool. It was at the first Strange Escapes at Liberty and the Bell Formal Winery was the first time I had a paranormal experience. Was because of you. Oh well you're well, you're short of person. And Dave Schrader was one of the people that were supervising the group, and you teamed me up with Trader just to kind of make sure

nobody got lost. So we went to the morgue and there was this sweet young lady there who had three K two meters laying out and we get into the morgue and this girl looks at Dave Trader and says, we're talking to a boy. And t Trader was really great with this girl and just kind of says, well, how do you know that, and she goes, well, we're getting this k too interaction, and then he describes how a K two meter works and he was like, well, you know, just because it's lighting up doesn't mean it's

a ghost. It could be someone's cell phone or radio. And you know, you have three K two meters laying really close to each other, so if they're all lighting up, then they're all receiving the same signal. And this girl, without missing a beat, looks at him and the eye and goes, I know, and then says, can you show Mr Schrader that you can touch just the right one?

And these things are like six inches apart, and the right K too meter fires off like solid red, and the other two nothing, you know, and knowing how those things work, you're like, that shouldn't happen. So I look at Trader, and Trader raises his eyebrow and looks at the girl, and she goes, good job, thank you. Can you do the one on the left now? And that one goes, and then she goes the one in the middle, and I look at Trader and Trader looks at me

he goes, I got nothing. But I thought about that for weeks afterwards, of like that that shouldn't happen, that shouldn't be a thing. And I watched it. I saw it happen. So that put me down the rabbit hole of just maybe there are other things. And the next time I got to do a strange escapes and you were like, do you want to go do a group I was like, yeah, please, can I go do it? Well? I love it. I love that. Now your shows are really based in a lot of haunted locations, one of

the biggest being the Queen Mary. So can you tell me just kind of like how you affiliated with the Queen Mary, how your show is set up there, because

I find that fascinating. I was doing the show at the Stanley Hotel and the hotel management company that manages the hotel on the Queen Mary, not to be confused with the company that managed the Queen Mary, they came out and saw the show and made an offer, and we moved the show from the Stanley out to the Queen and built this really cool kind of speakeasy room.

It only sat fifty people, and I wanted this really intimate experience, and we designed a show that was able to tell the story of the Queen Mary, but also the idea of hauntings. And I think a lot of people that are outside of the paranormal world, when they hear the word haunted, they think bad. It's just murder, suicide,

something bad must have happened. And when we built the room on the Queen Mary, we wanted to convey that, you know, this is a ship that sailed for twenty years, thirty years, and any ship that big with that many people inevitably people pass on. But it's also a place where people got married and fell in love and had their very first kiss. So if bad things make ghost, maybe good things to too, you know, that would to me explain some of the interactions that are found on

the Queen. So we did a bunch of historical research about the people who did pass on and kind of picked a few of those to tell stories with. And in the concept of doing this, we also created what has become a paranormal experiment. Initially it was just a show. The idea is to have the audience create a ghost. Everyone would imagine a shadow, and I would randomly pick somebody and say is your shadow an adult or a child?

Give it no gender, just a size, and someone would answer that question, and then we would ask the other people in the room, you know, who else was thinking of a child? And you'd see these hands go up and we'd use those hands to create the ghost. We'd basically say, is it a boy or girl? What colors their hair or colors their eyes? How old are they? Tell me something that this person likes, tell me something this person doesn't like, and finally we would say what's

their name. So we start doing this, and in very short order we realized that people are describing the same person night after People are giving that ghost the same name night after night. So you see it happened once, it's cool the second time, maybe a coincidence, but when it happens twelve or thirteen times, you can't not watch that happen and go like, where is that answer coming from? Is there something here that is actually subconsciously manipulating people

to respond to us. So that's how it kind of grew, and it's cool to be able to do that in a place that's filled with a lot of legend and myth. But after maybe a month, we found ourselves doing a lot more investigating after the shows, and also doing a

lot of kind of educating people. There's resident paranormal investigators that have gone to the Queen for a long long time, and they've gotten to the point where they've made up stories about things that never happened, and once those things go out on the internet, they become true for people. So that's also a challenge of to be able to go like, hey, nothing that ever happened in that space, or you know, the Jackie story is probably the most famous, and so Jackie is the little girl right in the

pool room, like, I've heard that story for years. It's an amazing story if people have these interactions with a little girl. The name Jackie comes up in estes method now. But the story because there's these interactions of this child has always been a negative story. People like, oh, it's a little girl that drowned in the pool. Well, the Queen Mary kept really good records and that never happened, right,

there's no record of the drowning at all. The person who first started telling that story a long time ago was somebody who was a psychic, and they said that that's what happened, so it became true. The kicker is when you say that no little girl drowned in the pool is people who go like, well, there's a Jackie, And to say that she didn't drown doesn't mean that she doesn't exist. It just means that she didn't die

that way. Right, you know, So we would tell her story a great deal, and because it interacts as an intelligent haunting, I wouldn't want to think that an intelligent child would remain in the place where such a horrible

thing happened. So we would tell her story and then kind of convey to people if you were to think back to your childhood, do you remember what it was like the first time you ever dove, first time you dove and you got it right, and how happy you were and that moment of joy And for some people

maybe that's the happiest moment they ever have. Or you know, maybe Jackie was playing marco polo with a little boy in that pool, you know, on some voyage, and twenty years later, maybe that little boy in her got married. So there are other reasons for her to be drawn to that place. We talk about that a lot. Actually, our theory a lot is that these imprints can happen not necessarily from tragedy, like you can feel just as strongly about a tragic moment as you can about a

happy or positive one. And then there's also the idea and I I don't know how you feel about this, but the idea that maybe Jackie has been kind of willed into existence from so many people believing in her. You know, we've seen that before too. I've been investigating the Queen Mary for a very long time. I don't want to say like it's been a long time, and I know

I have sat in that pool room. I'm not sure if it's open or going to be open again to the public, but I have sat in there in the dark trying to talk to Jackie, just really wanting to hear from Jackie and thinking about Jackie and what happened to Jackie. Multiply that by, however, many thousands of people go into that space thinking that, and you might just get a Jackie even if there was never a Jackie. And we found that with is it be three forty?

You know, you guys did an STA session in there on your Last Strange Escapes, and the New Kirks did a session in there. That room is crazy active, like there's people have stuff happening there, And there's always been this legend of like, oh, somebody was murdered in b three forty, or something bad happened in Big three forty. The true story would be three forty is that when

Disney owned the ship. It was a haunted attraction, and they put special effects in that room, things that would open doors and knock, and you know, it was kind of a spook show kind of experience. And then Disney left the ship, and when they left the ship, they did not turn any of that off. They literally just left. So the new company comes in and people book this room, and weird stuff is happening, and so many people are being asked. You know, they're basically saying, I'm not staying

in this room. The doors keep opening, this is happening, this is happening. So they decided to close the room to the public, and this ledgend grows at the rooms truly haunted. And then they got the room. They take all of the you know, the drywall off the walls, and they find all this stuff control panels and special effects and realized that this was all made by man.

But now nobody wants to stay there. So a few years ago they redesigned the room and they make it a room once more and go, hey, come stay in the famous haunted b three forty and now real stuff is happening there. All the special effects are gone, but people go in there for lots of different reasons. And I hate to say this, but like once a night I would meet somebody on the ship that would book three forty or book some other room on B deck

because of its reputation. And they were people that were recently bereaved, people that lost a loved one and had this idea of, like, you know what, the Queen Mary has haunted, I'm going to go stay in this haunted room and then maybe I can talk to my husband, my wife. And it's heartbreaking to meet those people. But so many people have now gone into B three forty and brought stuff with them. I think that's part of the reason why there's those interactions is not that something

bad happened there, something good happened there. It's that every person who stays in there brings stuff with them, you know. And oh yeah, and I can tell you it has such a reputation. Like I know my friend Julie Tremaine, who I let her have that room to write a story.

She's a writer. She helped write my book, and I let her stay in that room one night after Strange Escapes was done with it so she could write a story about staying and B three forty and she was like, obviously it was scary, but she said her favorite part of it was scaring people all night because people would come and stand outside the door and they'd be like, this is the room and they wouldn't realize someone was in it, and she would bang on the door and

they go running down the hallway, And so they should advertise that part of it too, because that sounds equally as fun. Yeah, it's so, what is the status of the Queen Mary right now? It's been in the news so much like, do you know what's happening there? It's really good news. We know more than we're allowed to say. So the upside is is that's a good thing is

that they're working on getting our back open. Right now, they're removing all of the lifeboats from the Queen and that's, you know, caused a little bit of uproars some votes because they want the boats to stay there. But those boats were designed to hang the hats for as long as they've been there, and the weight of them is extreme and it's starting to pull the davit out structure. So before the ship can reopen, they're doing some repairs

on her. They're taking those lifeboats off, they're going to be replaced with a lightweight replica, so the Queen will still have her look. But a lot of people don't realize that of all the lifeboats that are hanging on the Queen only two of them are original to the Queen Mary. The rest of them came from other boats, and the two original ones are being preserved and they'll be put on display inside the Queen Mary, so you'll actually still be able to visit them, and they'll still

be there um and that history won't go away. But before people can go back and visit, and you know, she has to be structurally sound and safe. She's been closed for two years, and unfortunately she's not like a building where you just unlock it and turn on the lights. There's a lot of little things that they have to do to get it open, and it will probably take you a little bit of time to rehire everybody back

and get the place up and running again. You know, as someone who has been kind of in the bowels of that ship, I feel like common areas, what you can see in the public is pretty well polished, but when you start getting down into areas that are not open, you can really see just how much deterioration has happened, and like you know it, it makes you realize, like what they are up against. So I think it's a feat that she's reopening, and I think it's important, what

an important piece of history. And I did want to talk about my wildest paranormal experience that I had there and get your take on it. This was years and years ago. I was in the boiler room, and this was before they had kind of made the boiler room a spot on the tour. So this was before there were any walkways. It was like you went down there at your own risk and there were no lights, nothing, And so I went down there. We were doing an event.

This was years before even Strange Escapes, was before I was even on TV or any of that. I went down there with another investigator and we were basically just kind of trying to plan the investigation and like the path that was the safest for our attendees because it was kind of treacherous down there, and so we you were making our way back out and I had some sort of light, so it's like a lantern in my flashlight, and I saw distinctly the figure of this man walk

right by us. But it wasn't a whole person. This was like a partial apparition, Like it literally kind of went like part of his head, part of his torso and like his right arm down to like his right hip, and the rest of him was not there. But he was walking very purposefully, did not see me. He was bald. I could literally see sweat on the back of his head and like brown overall type jumpsuit thing he was wearing. And he just walked by and I went I was like in shock, and I asked the person with me,

I'm like, did you just see that? He's like, what the hell was that like? And I was like, I don't know what that was. I've never seen anything like that in my life because we just had like the flashlight, but it was so distinct and the most bizarre thing. Now I realized it was like a partial apparition, but it just had such a defined cut off. And so I then heard after this happened that there is a spirit there. I feel like I can't remember the names either Henry or Harry or like this report of a

man who potentially died. Have you heard about this as anyone else seen this thing? Because we're lucky that I am still an investigator after experience. It's actually like the appearance of apparitions on the ship is a pretty common thing, Like people see stuff like that all the time. I think it's diminished in the boiler room since it's become open to the public. Right, it's weird to me, Like

I think the Stanley is the same way. In the summer, when the hotel is really busy, the activity goes way way down, but when it's quieter, it seems to go up. And I don't know why that is, but you're not

the first to see it or encounter it. And I think it's something that because it's in this pattern of always walking back and forth and people kind of see him in the same spot that I do think it's more of a residual thing of someone that's still going about their job because there's never been really intelligent interactions down there. Yeah, we get very frustrated because there's so much stealing the ship. We always want to go do st just down there, and you can't get a there's

no radio, you know, you canignal down there. But it's an amazing place, So I'm not surprised that you had that. And I think it's pretty cool that you had the experience of actually getting to see it. Yeah, I mean it was shocking. The same thing kind of happens in B three forty when you're talking about doing like the Method or the spirit Box experiment. It's like this kind

of you get very little radio feed in there. It is mostly white noise, so when you hear a voice coming out of it, it's very distinct and very strange. So just wild. Where you did your show on the ship, that area, Like I remember when you showed me that and you're like, I'm making this into a theater. I was like, I don't know how you're doing that because that area is known to be haunted. Before you did that, like we investigated in that space, it was just not used.

What was the effect of that when they were renovating that and things. Did you have things happening? Obviously you're doing a magic show, but there had to have been things that went on that you were not facilitating. No, they started probably the first week, the first week of the show. These two ladies, they were sisters, and they were sitting next to this one curtain and as they were leaving, you know, I always tried to see everybody when they leave the theater, and this woman stops and said,

you know, thank you so much. That was a lot of fun. And they turned to start to walk away, and she felt compelled to turn back around, and she says, you know what I like best that you did a couple of things in the show that only one or two people could see, like it was special just for them, and we don't do that, like we want everyone to see everything. So I said, what do you mean and

she goes, oh, we just really appreciated the sailor. And they said excuse me, and she was like, you know, and she's like winking at me, like she, you know, is in on the secret. She goes, the guy in the sailor suit that you know, was dressed up like a nineteen thirties sailor who peeks out from behind the curtain, Oh my goodness, and where she saw that there's no access. There is nobody dressed up, and there's absolutely no way

for human being to get there. There's none. And my fiance and I just are looking at this woman and my fiance is about to say like, oh my god, and I just looked at her, So I'm glad you enjoyed that, and she walked away. You know, I have full body chills like at that this one section, and I would see it from the stage. People sitting in a certain part of the theater would always be turning their head and looking down this hallway, and then afterwards

they would say they saw people our bartender. One night, probably the third or fourth week, at the end of the show, she came up to and says, did that guy not like the show? And we go what guy? And she goes, well, there was a guy in a gray suit that left like ten minutes into the show, and from the stage, you can't leave the room without me seeing you. And nobody was wearing a gray suit.

Nobody was dressed like that, and nobody had left the theater during the show, and we were like, carry nobody left and she didn't see and you know, she saw a human being as three dimensional, as real as anybody else. But the guy didn't say anything to her, just walked out.

But we started investigating in the space after that, and we kind of took every lesson that we've ever learned from you and Grant and Adam, and we put it all to work and we started really using k two ands this method in the space, and we filmed everyone because we wanted to like have we want to have a record that we could go back and go, Okay,

this is consistent, this isn't. So we would investigate with about twelve people late at night and back on my fiance and I would we would demonstrate ESTs, and then we would try to get out of it, you know, and just let the participants do everything right. Mainly because I'm a magician, I felt like, if anything happens and I'm the cause of it, people will see it as a trick. But if you just I want them to do it. So we started doing that. But when we

would do investigations, we would tell the guests nothing. We wouldn't anybody about previous experiences. We wouldn't tell them what to expect, because if you tell somebody a name and then that name suddenly comes out of estus, you've kind of spoiled the source of it, right. So we started filming these and the interactions were profound, to the point that we were having full conversations with someone and over

the course of a year it became a relationship. Because this was something that we were doing at least once a week, if not two or three. It turned into something I think was a huge advantage in the sense that most paranormal investigators save up for a year just to go investigate one place and they only get a couple of days there. This was like investigating your own home, you know, so you know what's normal and what feels right, and you know what I mean, like just the vibes

of the place is different. Yeah, And I mean that's a powerful tool to have that ability to kind of reinvestigate it over and over again, because, like you were saying, you do build a relationship or almost a friendship, and that might be something. I mean, I'm just speculating what life is like on the other side or for a ghost or spirit. But if they come to expect that, can you imagine like what a joy that is in

their routine all of a sudden that's something new to them. Oh, I can go here at this time these nights, and these people are familiar with are there and we can have a conversation. Some of the places I've been to over and over again, I've actually gotten e vps of them saying my name not to intimate me would be like hi, Amy, like they remember me having that and the Queen Mary is like a major job perk. I

would say it was heartbreaking. The first time we investigated down on the ropehold, we had somebody else in est us you know, just this. I think it was a journalist that was there just to kind of do a story on us. And this guy's in the headphones and we started asking questions and the answers that we got initially was you know, as anybody here, would you like to talk to us? And it was go away? Would

you please go away? And we're like, yeah, we'll leave your space if you're not comfortable with us being here. And the next thing the guy in Esta says is, I'm sick of doing tricks. You want me to do tricks. I'm not here to do tricks. I live here. M h. It just punches you in the face because you think of how many people have walked through that space in the last twenty years, thirty years and did shaven a haircut on the bulkhead. I mean, I try to tell people that all the time. This is not a show

for you. You're talking to a real human being potentially who's in a situation that we can't even begin to fathom they're not here to knock for you or perform for you. You were here to help them or bring them some comfort. I think that's the perfect analogy and way to demonstrate it. But I've seen that many times in overly investigated places, and I think it's fair, Like, I get it. I understand how that happens. People go in wanting to be scared. They think it's cool, We've

all done it. It's fine, we've all been there. But it's something that I think if you're truly interested in the paranormal and ghosts, it's very smart to kind of move past that and humanize them. Well, I'm glad you guys were there for that. It was incredible because they literally was you know, Becca is very sweet. And the other thing was crazy, is like I dress, you know, in suits and ties and hats and look like I walked out of the nineteen thirties, and Becca's does the same.

She wears vintage and her hairs and victory roles. And when we investigate on the Queen Mary and we're dressed that way, we have interactions. The few times that we try to investigate on like a day off and showed up in jeans and a hoodie. Nothing. Well, this is exciting for me next time I go to the Queen Mary. But it was a little cosplay involved. I love. I don't know if it's just a familiar thing, but I

think it helps. I think it helps, you know. I think there is something to adding that kind of humanistic triggers. They're a little more comfortable if you look like who you're supposed to look like. I love that. So now tell me how can people find you? What are you doing now? I can't keep track of you? So if people want to come see Aiden Sinclair work his magic, where do they go? Where do they find your schedule?

Right now, we are at the Stanley Hotel and we have a brand new theater there called Aiden Sinclair's Underground, and it's kind of a speakeasy behind the bookcase see great theater. That's seventy people and we do shows over the winner Friday, Saturday and Sunday and over Memorial Day to Halloween. The room runs seven days a week. We bring out guest acts from the Magic Castle and from the Edinburgh Fringe Fest, so it's become this place where some of the finest magicians in the world appear over

the summer and they're just incredible shows. And when we're not doing that, we're in the process of getting our room back open on the Queen Mary, which we hope to see back in business by the end of the year. So that's the little bit of news for Queen Mary aficionados. I think that you'll find yourself walk in our decks

by the time of the year ends. I think it'll be a slow and staged opening and it might be a little while before the hotel opens, but she is going to come back to life and she's gonna, i think, be very happy to see people return. And then around the Halloween season we're usually around the Winchester Mystery House as well, so it's been an adventure living the dream. Well, you know, I'm excited to hopefully see you again very soon.

I really appreciate you taking the time to at all things Queen Mary with us, so friends, if you're listening, please go see Aidan. I promise you will not be disappointed. He's also just one of the nicest people you could know. So thank you so much, aid and I appreciate it. Any time and safe travels and hopefully we see you soon. The Queen Mary certainly has it all. History, beauty, ghosts, at least one X Files episode filmed on board, and

a knack for continuing to defy the odds. It's funny how often I come across places like this in my line of work, massive undertakings that stand out not just as a bit of history, but a home for ghosts. Makes me think of her right now, quietly in the harbor, no guests, no regular employees, just silence. Or is there something tells me, even without the presence of the living, the Queen Mary is very much awake and awaiting our return.

I'm Amy Bruney and this was Haunted Road. Haunted Road is a production of I Heart Radio and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Mankey. The podcast is written and hosted by Amy Bruney. Executive producers include Aaron Manky, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. The show is produced by rema Ill Kali and Trevor Young. Research by Taylor Haggerdorn, Amy Bruney and Robin Miniter. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.