S1 – 2: When My Fire Burns Low

all convinced you were a murderer. Now, imagine if you took your inheritance from your parents untimely demise and bought one of the most ostentatious homes in your city instead of moving elsewhere where, perhaps you wouldn't be so recognizable. And imagine if you lived the rest of your days there, a full thirty four years of daily taunts, glares, and

hushed whispers as you passed by. You, my friends, have put yourselves in the shoes of Lizzie Borden, and we're not headed to the infamous home where her father and stepmother were hacked to death. We're headed to a place much more important to Lizzie, a place where many believe her spirit is still as present there today as it was when she was alive. Come with me to Maplecroft.

I'm Amy Bruney, and welcome to Haunted Road. On August four, eighteen ninety two, Abbey and Andrew Borden were found murdered in their home in Fall River, Massachusetts. Andrew was famously found lying on the couch, his head nearly split into Abbey was found in an upstairs bedroom, lying in a pool of blood, her head bludgeoned multiple times. Like many notorious murders of this era, the weapon used was an axe.

Suspicion quickly turned to Andrew Borden's daughter Ze. Other than the maid, Lizzie was the only person home at the time of the murders. It was rumored there was much turmoil in the home because Andrew was known to be miserly, even though he was supposedly worth a fortune. Lizzie and her sister Emma regularly fought with Andrew over this, and they also despised their stepmother Abby. The murder trial was sensational and was followed via the press worldwide. However, every

bit of evidence the prosecution presented was deemed to be circumstantial. Still, Lizzie's story changed multiple times. It was rumored she attempted to buy poison days before the murders, and that she burned dresses days after the crime. The apparent murder weapon, an axe found in the basement, was never fingerprinted because the Fall River police were wary of that new technology. All of this, paired with Lizzie's wholesome upbringing and image,

convinced the Jerry to acquit her. After nearly a year in jail, Lizzie was acquitted in June, but acquittal or not, the community of Fall River still very much believed Lizzie had committed the crimes, and they weren't shy about saying it. So Lizzie and her sister did what any normal person who had been accused of murder in a close knit

town would do. They used the inheritance of their fathers to buy a fourteen room mansion on the hill, the wealthiest part of town, and proceeded to live the lifestyle Lizzie hit always dreamed of, right in front of everyone who thought she had killed her parents and old time friends. In twilight plays and starry nights and sunny days, come trooping up the misty ways when my fire burns low.

These words are carved above the fireplace in the library at Maplecroft and seemed to indicate the hope that Lizzie had for her new life. The poem itself is taken from a common school English literature textbook published in eighteen seventy six. However, Lizzie seems to have changed the last line because it originally stated when my cows come home. Definitely not as romantic. Lizzie and her sister Emma moved

into Maplecroft in September of eighteen. Lizzie dubbed the house Maplecroft at that time and had the name etched on the front steps, though no one can find her source for the name. The home almost immediately drew considerable interest, Boasting fourteen rooms, eight of which were bedrooms, was numerous bathrooms in a modest six fireplaces. It was one of the largest homes on the hill at the time. The Fall River Daily Globe reported that it almost immediately became

a mecca of innumerable sightseers. Year after year, the public was not kind to Lizzie. Children constantly through gravel at her windows, disturbed her lawn, threw rotten eggs at the house, and ding dong ditched her. Hilda Gifford, the daughter of a Fall River jeweler, lived nearby. On Halloween, she and her friends would draw straws. The loser had to ring Lizzie's doorbell. A morbid but now very well known rhyme began making its rounds locally. Lizzie Borden took an X

and gave her mother forty wax. When she saw what she had done, she gave her father forty one. Andrew Borden is now dead. Lizzie hit him on the head up in heaven. He will sing on the gallows. She will swing as time passed. Reports were that Lizzie lived as a recluse. Her best friends prior to the murders abandoned her. The society she participated in prior to the

trial snubbed her. Afterwards, she was ostracized, an outcast, and it's described that when she walked down the street, her nearest neighbors passed her by without a nod or sign of recognition. But there are glimmers and reports of a different Lizzie emerging. In nineteen o five, she legally changed her name to Elizabeth. The company she lacked from humans she made up for with her animals. She had two purebred French bulldogs who rarely left her side, and singing

canaries in her home. She had squirrel houses built around maple croft, and she would feed them herself, allowing the little animals to climb her arms and sit on her shoulders. She sent her friend's children birthday cards and signed them Anti Borden. She played cribbage under the trees and gathered wildflowers on warm summer days. She hired chauffeurs and live in maids, and visited her father's grave in the winter. The cemetery foreman Terence J. Lomax had his men shovel

a path to the Boorden plot for her. Lizabeth also brought some of the first cars to the neighborhood. She owned a nineteen twenty three Lincoln and a nineteen Buick. Most notably, by that time, she was known to have her chauffeur pull over when she saw children so she could pass out candy to them. In the midst of all this, there was one relationship that deteriorated to the point of no return, that of Elizabeth and her sister Emma. Keep in mind Elizabeth and Emma's mother died of uterine

congestion a few years after Elizabeth was born. Their mother made then twelve year old Emma promised she would look after Elizabeth, a promise she upheld until nineteen o five. Elizabeth apparently befriended a Boston actress by the name of Nance O'Neil. Some reports indicate the friendship may have been more than platonic, but this remains unverified. Apparently, Emma tired of Elizabeth's frivolity with not only their funds but their privacy,

as Elizabeth began entertaining friends she met in Boston. For years, it was an open secret that Elizabeth and Emma did not agree and were constantly at odds in the home, but the parties were the fine an old straw, and after some urging from friends, Emma packed her belongings and left the French Street mansion, never again to set foot

within its doors or talk to Elizabeth. It's hard to imagine what transpired between those two sisters over so many years, from the moment a dying mother begged her twelve year old child to look after her little sister, to the horrifying murders, to the moment that door slam shut as Emma never looked back. Elizabeth's health began to decline in

nineteen six, and she would not recover. It was discovered by the local press that a Mary Smith Borden, who had checked into Providence Hospital with gallbladder trouble, was actually Elizabeth. It was also reported that she was a troublesome patient. There are various explanations for her eventual death in nineteen

seven at the age of sixty seven. Some say heart disease, others say pneumonia, but she most certainly died at Maplecroft and was waked in the parlor her A handful of friends supposedly attended a funeral service in the home, Yet a soloist hired to sing a hymn during the service said otherwise. In her words, she rang the bell and a gentleman said, follow me. You're to stand beside the fireplace. She says, So I stood there and sang that song to an empty room. I never saw a soul but

that one man. After the wake, Elizabeth was buried at sunset with only the undertaker's assistance. Present. Rumors are that she demanded a concrete slab be put over her coffin to deter curiosity seekers and grave robbers from disturbing her final resting place. Her final resting place which happens to be next to her father and stepmother in the family plot. At the time of her death, Elizabeth was worth over two hundred fifty thousand dollars almost five million dollars by

today's standards. Her will left sizeable donations to the local animal rescue, plus smaller sums to numerous cousins and friends. She also left money to tend to her father's grave in perpetuity to her sister, she left nothing, saying she had the means to look after herself. Nine days after Elizabeth's death, and after twenty two years of not speaking, Emma Boorden passed away in her home in Newmarket, New Hampshire. Emma, too,

was buried in the family plot in Fall River. So why why did Lizabeth remain in Fall River all those years staring down her detractors when she could have so easily gone elsewhere and started fresh. To quote Lizabeth directly, when the truth comes out about this murder, I want to be living here so I can walk down town and meet those of my old friends who have been cutting me for all these years. It's been over one hundred twenty five years, and no one else was ever arrested.

For the murders, and speculation is intense even today. It makes you wonder if Lizabeth still walks the halls of Maplecroft waiting for her moment of vindication. Personally, I absolutely think that she does. And coming up next we'll talk about why. So I'm here now with Sue Vigory, who is an integral part of not only Maplecroft but also the original murder house, the Lizzie Boarden House that's so famous as well, and she has positions in both locations.

At the Lizzie Boarden House she is a tour guide, but at Maplecroft she is the caretaker. And so she's here to answer some of my questions about Maplecroft and tell us some of the more interesting experiences people have had their including herself, plus what she thinks is actually going on there. So let's ask her a few questions. Thanks for being here, Sue, my pleasure. So how long have you been working in the realm of Lizzie Borden? Uh?

And then about ten years? I'd say, okay, So you started at I hate to call it this, but you started at the murder House, right and and uh did you start as a tour guide? I did, Yes, Okay, And now that you're working at both houses, which house do you find yourself drawn to more? Well, that's tough to say. I'm drawn to both houses. You know, I was always fascinated by her entire life. Being able to come into Maplecroft was really a bucket list. I never

thought i'd see that that was a process. I mean, it seemed like, you know, Maplecroft has been privately owned for so long, and it just seemed only fitting that the folks who owned the Second Street house would end up purchasing Maplecroft. And I think the original intent was to open it up to the public right, to make it a bed and breakfast. Yeah, that's what they wanted to do, bed and breakfast, or we would have settled

for tours. The city won't allow either. That's unfortunate because I think that, you know, Fall River is actually a really interesting city, and you know, when I first moved into this area, I was just fascinated with the history there and the architecture. And you know that there are a few tourist spots there, like Battleship Cove. But I do feel like so many people are drawn to the story of Lizzie Borden because it's just so mysterious and

remains unsolved to this day. And you know, it attracts not only history buffs but also paranormal folks and true crime aficionados. So it just seems like such a great opportunity for the city. You would think right that they would welcome a second location, but they don't. Yeah, people are constantly sending me links to the house. I know it's on the market again now and they're always like, if you should buy it, and man, it would be

very too late on that one. I don't know who will say so now, having spent so much time in both houses, what do you think is the difference in the energy and both of the homes? Well, there's definitely a lighter energy here at Maplecroft, although that third floor can be a little dark at times. Isn't the third floor where the caretaker lives or whoever living there lives. Well, no one lives here now, I mean they wanted me to live here, but I'm here as much as I can,

but I don't really want to move in. So the house uh doesn't have anyone living on the third floor at the moment. Uh. And so what do you not want to move in because you don't want to move from your location now or is it for other reasons?

I don't think I would be comfortable trying to sleep here. Well, that's interesting because I've spent a lot of time in Maplecroft and um, I've investigated a number of times, and you know, at first, it was almost like getting to know a live person, Like it was almost like meeting someone who's closed off and then trying to kind of get them to open up to you, you know, trying to think of different ways to get the house to speak to you, and and it took a while, but

I do feel like now when I go back that the house or potentially Elizabeth remembers me like, it feels very different than when I first went there. Has that been the same for you? Oh? Yeah, I have no problem with her. It's not her that worries me. There's actually a man on the third floor, and I don't know who he is. But I've tried laying on a bed up there by myself, and all of a sudden, the whole bed staters she aging and I know that's not her doing that. I've seen a full fledged shadow

figure on the third floor again not her. That's interesting because when we investigated there, we didn't investigate the third floor because that's where the person who was taking care of the house at the time lived, and they said there really wasn't anything going on up there. But as we've learned so many times over the years investigating these spaces, sometimes the investigations themselves actually attract different spirits. And not to mention, the house has more of a history than

just Elizabeth or Lizzie. You know, someone built it before she bought it, and then people lived there long after she passed. M h. When you investigated, did you get a man come through speaking for her? A lot? Never,

So that's really interesting. It was at first very quiet, uh, and then as we investigated, she kind of started becoming more comfortable with us, and and I've long theorized that that's because we made kind of a pact after night one or two that we weren't going to bring up the murders anymore and we were just going to talk to her about, you know, post murder life, I guess, and I think that was what really brought her out more.

And I don't think we've got any evidence of a man, but it's also been a while, and I don't think the third floor was opened up then, so maybe you've found someone new. Yeah, I mean I've done the same with her Amy. We do run ghost hunts here, but we don't allow paranormal teams to rent out the house. Any ghostman has to be through us. That way, I can kind of control what people say, and that's what we tell them. It's all about respect. We don't want

the other place mentioned. All your questions have to pertain to her life here, and you know, we try and keep it her sanctuary, same as you and Adam did. Is there anything that happens in the house you feel like maybe rouse her up a little bit. I think when we have too many people in the house, you can hear her a little bit stomping around upstairs. Occasionally somebody might say something and you'll hear a door slam.

Other than that, she um, she's kind of quiet. We get the knocking now and then, but I don't think that's her right. And so when she starts doing that, what do you do to calm her down? And I'll just say, oh, I'm sorry, are you in this part of the house, will leave you be, We'll go somewhere else. So what would you say, And all the time you've spent at Maplecrofts, what would you say is the strangest

experience that you've had there? Over the pandemic. We did a show doc Zone and we were filming on the third floor again and somebody was doing the SDS method and she kept yelling my first and last name over the spirit box and then I saw a full fledged shadow figure stand right in the doorway of the room. As soon as I pointed it out, you actually saw the shadow run m. Probably the scariest thing was when I was alone on the third floor, laying on the

bed in the whole bed started it just shake. Yeah, that that would be disconcerting. I can see now why you don't want to move in there. Yeah, you know it scares me, but it fascinates me at the same time, I just would rather come and go. What do you what would you say is the strangest or scariest experience you've heard of anyone else having in the home? I don't know. Amy. Down in a basement we were doing a ghost hunt and a woman got touched and it

really freaked her out. I mean literally, anybody else in the room could have been touched and it wouldn't have been that kind of reaction. But she was touched, and I happen to have the spirit box going. I said, hey, whoever just touched her, could you please not do that? You scared her? And over the spirit box he just said, I'm sorry. Well, she was so scared. She actually ended up leaving the ghost on after she validated, you know, somebody actually validating that they did touch her. If free

to her, that was enough for her. Yeah, so that was a little bit unnerving. Now, we did some experimenting when Adam and I investigated with Kindred Spirits, we did some investigating and experimenting where we tried to kind of see if the two locations were connected, and you know, we weren't sure if maybe some energy or spirits travel between the two houses. Do you think that that happens.

I don't ever sense any of the spirits from the other house in this house, but I have sent her at the other location, so I do think that she's able to travel back and forth. That would make sense because really the other spirits and theory passed before you know, she would have moved into Maplecroft and so they wouldn't even know that it existed in her world, and so that actually makes sense. I hadn't thought of it that

way before. Do you think that there is any evidence that Emma Porton might be in the home or might come to the house. Well, I don't know if it's evident. I have had a psychic in the house to tell me that she was here. But then again, you've taken a word of someone else. I didn't personally get her

name come through or anything like that. It just seems so strange to me, Like I was just I was just recently going through all the history again, and you know, to think that those sisters were joined for so long and then it just ended one day, and then still they end up dying within two weeks of each other

with without even knowing each other was ill. And it makes me wonder if maybe they've tried to mend defenses in the afterlife or or you know, it's I just I guess, and so many of my investigations I've seen that happen where people have these kind of regrets as far as how relationships went in their living years. And I guess there's a part of me that kind of hopes that Lizzie and Emma might you know, meet up

in the afterlife. So I was thinking Maplecroft might be the perfect place for that, if it would ever happen, And maybe they did. I just I haven't personally gotten any evidence of that, but it's possible absolutely. Um, is the house still on the market. It is? It is. This house is Maplecroft, And so Maplecroft is still on the market. It's been on the market for a while. When it is sold, or if it is sold, what

do you hope to see the new owners do? I think I would rather it became the private family home, to be honest, So you you would like it to just be kind of what it was originally intended, a beautiful home for a family exactly, unless they were going to do respectful tours like we had in mind. I don't want it to be another place where you get all these paranormal groups coming over. School man about the other house, I think that would be awful. Yeah, you

know it is. It is a beautiful home. Like you walk in and there's this grand staircase to the left, and then to the right there's this gorgeous parlor, and I mean, I can't state enough just what a stunning stunning residents it is and and I think it would be great for it to be just privately owned and kind of tucked away. But you know, it's one of those places I just think people will not stop being

curious about. You know, I've just seen this happen so many times in places like the Amityville House and such, where they almost become tourist attractions even though they're not open. People stop and they take photos out front and things like that, and I wonder if that's kind of, you know, stopping people from buying the house. Yeah. I do know one of the previous owners, he actually put a boat across the word Maplecroft to try and you know, detur people.

The word Maplecroft is one of the things that Lizzie put there. You know, there are just that there are still a lot of little touches in there that Lizzie, I should say, Elizabeth, Elizabeth put there herself, and you know that's that's fascinating and you know it just feels like her when you go there. Now. Question for you, I know you're in Maplecroft right now, and so this is kind of a touchy question to ask, but I

have to ask it. I didn't know you were really be doing your interview while you were actually in the house. So that being said, do you think Lizabeth or Lizzie did it? Well, hopefully she's not listening, but I mean I would have to say so. But I don't think people say all the time for the money. I don't think so. I think there was something else going on. I always said, if she did it, there was a

good reason, a better reason for it. There's a sound upstairs as I was saying that, Look great, Sorry, I don't mean this is to herd up for you over there. No, I mean I've actually told to this myself in anyway. Yeah, and maybe you know, I know, there's a lot of rumors as far as what could have gone on between you know, her family, A lot of money matters. There's claims of abuse, you know, there's claims that you know,

she had some sort of relationship with the maid. I mean, all of these things that we will never ever know the truth on. And I'm sure you know, she probably never expected for people to still be talking about it so many years later. And I just I think it's it's just so kind of magical to me that we have this kind of direct line to her still through Maplecroft,

like I fully believe she is there. I do like how curated you are about like you know what people say, you know, you're careful about what they bring up, because I think that's the only way that she will talk to people. Uh. And I think it's also just an important lesson and the fact that you know, just because we pass away doesn't mean we stop being human, and that there's a respect level it needs to happen there.

But when we filmed there and we were shooting and investigating, you know, we were there for multiple days and we've been back a number of times, and one of our producers just kept asking me to ask her if she did it over and over again. He was like, you just you need to ask her, You need to ask her she did it. And I refused. I said I

won't because I've gained her trust. Like I've spent so many days here talking to her and she's finally talking to me, and I have to come back to this house again and again, and I don't want to ruin this right. I didn't want to say though that you know, that's mainly the reason that only you and Adam were allowed in this house because of your level of respect to her. We knew we could count on that from you, guys. Well,

thank you. We Adam and I as investigators really strive too, you know, kind of in part the same respect to the dead as we do to the living. You know. We we talked to them as though they're standing right in front of us, living and breathing. So do I. Yeah, and that's why I like you so much. I've actually, for people listening, I've known Sue for many years at this point, you know, we met through the Lizzie Borden House and now through Maplecroft. She's actually featured on an

episode of Kindred Spirits too. Now you were on the Maplecroft one too, right, yeah, briefly. Yeah, so she's a regular at this point. Um. You know, so I dug into the history a lot for the podcast. I mean obviously I have in the past as well. And just from what you've heard and what you've studied, what do you think life was like for Elizabeth at Maplecroft. Well, I think it was a combination of things. She had

a lot of good times here. Her servants were very loyal to her, She had good friends, She loved to travel. She finally got the high life on the hill. But then she also was snubbed by neighbors. You know, they made up that little nursery rhyme and they would actually sing it outside of this house, throw eggs at the side of the house. So they were her bad days in here. But I think for the most part she loved this place. Oh. The other thing is she had a lot of animals in the home, right, She had

her dogs, she had canaries, she sent squirrels outside. Have you guys ever found any evidence of any spirit animals in the home, because I've been hearing about that a lot lately. Actually, yes, we've gotten dogs. I've heard a cat in the house before. And um, you remember Bundy, Cindy, Yeah, she, Um actually had this weird feeling that there was a monkey still in this house. Now, Elizabeth did not own a monkey, but a previous family actually kept a monkey

in here. Oh, and it's funny because Cindy said that to me one day and then not that long ago, like two weeks ago. Um, I had a psychic medium knock at the side door, and I left the woman and I was speaking to her, and um, she turned to Cindy and said, did you see like a short shadow figure up a staircase since And he's like yeah, She's like, that was a monkey. Sydney and I just looked at her. Other said what a monkey? I had no idea. There's a new one for me. Yes, the

Sylvia family kept a monkey at Maplecroft. Oh my goodness. Maplecroft has a very interesting history in addition to Elizabeth living there. Oh yes, now with everything you know, like, I have heard that she stayed in Paul River because she wanted people to look her in the eye again once she was vindicated. Do you think that's actually why she stayed there? Well, you know, I always wondered that amy.

You know, here she is, she's inherited millions of dollars. Essentially, she could have lived anywhere in the world anonymously, had this great life. Why stay on the hill? Will you being ostracized? And as I studied her life here, I discovered a friend Dad asked her that same question, and you're correct. Her response to her friend was because I want to be among these same people when I'm found to be innocent. And I did hear. She later regretted

that before she died. Why do you think she regretted it? Well, because the innocent thing never really happened for her, and you know, she wasted all that time trying to prove her innocence. Really yeah, I mean it's strange because she didn't really do anything to, you know, try to prove her innocence after that, She just kind of assumed it would have happened eventually, and she just lived her life. And like you said, she she literally could have gone anywhere.

She had enough money to move, even out of the country if she wanted to, but instead she stayed where everyone thought she had acts murdered her parents, which is such a crazy concept to me. And what's crazy about it is okay, uh, you know, there were other people on the scene over the course of time. Usually somebody talks, something is said. Never not in this case, never, no, No. I do remember I heard that there was some sort of deathbed confession from Bridget that made at some point,

but that's not confirmed. Do you know anything about that. Supposedly she thought she was dying and sent for her friend. It took this friend a little bit to reach her, and by the time the friend did, she had recovered and didn't say anything. That whole story started from a Butte, Montana librarian as it was told to her, So nobody really knows if that even occurred at all. Right, so

you had another game of historical telephone. Really, well, is there anything else you think people need to know about Maple Croft? Because I feel like right now, you know there there is some access to it. But I just have a hunch that at some point Maple Croft is going to be closed back up to the public like it has been for so many years. Um, you know, is there anything you want the world to know about

that house? I mean, it was very special for her in her lifetime, and I just hope whoever's hands it falls into treats it with the same respect no matter what they do with it. And you know, there are some opportunities to still see the house if you go to the other house's website. We do try and conduct them things here at the house periodically. It may be

the only opportunity. Guys. That's good to know. So folks listening, If you do head to New England, obviously you you'll probably want to pay a visit to the Lizzie Borden House, but inquire about Maplecroft. See if it's a place you can still get into, because my hunch is that it won't be available to us much longer. And I feel like if Lizzie was haunting either house, it's definitely Maplecroft.

So having been there, it's a very special place. And Sue, I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions about this. Um. You your lovely as always. I can't wait to see you in person again. Yeah, I mean, it's my pleasure anytime I can talk about this house. I love it. Okay, Well, stay safe over there and watch out for that third floor. Will call me if you need me already. Thank you so much. Do I appreciate it? Alright, have a great day. Thanks you too.

The more I investigate and read about Elizabeth, the more inclined I am to say that I'm just not sure whether she killed her parents. I think it's incredible that we potentially have a direct line to her through her spirit at Maplecroft, and I do so hope that whoever takes ownership of the home next respects that. In the meantime, did you know that all the legal papers from her trial sit in a five drawer filing cabinet at the

law firm that represented her. It's been locked since the crime and remains that way to this day, since the law firm is still very much in existence and practicing. An attorney client privilege does not end when someone dies. I often think of that filing cabinet tucked away in that office and all the secrets that it holds, all the secrets we will most likely now of her. No, since the recording of this episode, we have lost someone very integral to the story I just told and that

you just heard. My dear friend, Leanne Wilbur, who was co owner of the Lizzie Boarden House and of Maple Croft, left us on June five, quite unexpectedly. I'm pretty heartbroken over it. I've known Leanne for a number of years, and she always welcomed me to Maplecroft and the Lizzie Boardenhouse with open arms. She was a lovely human being, and I just I'm still a little shell shocked by it. So this episode is dedicated to her memory and to

all the wonderful times we shared. So thank you for listening. Haunted Road is a production of I Heart Radio and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Minky. The podcast is written and hosted by Amy Bruney. Executive producers include Aaron Manky, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. The show is produced by rema Ill Kali and Trevor Young. Taylor Haggerdorn is the show's researcher. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.