I Wish it Was I, and Not the Girls

starting families of their own. Hoton lived in the grandest house in North Adams. He had everything until he didn't. A terrible accident one summer day changed the entire course of the Houghton family's history, leaving behind a legacy of tragedy and a mansion full of harrowing memories. That mansion is all so full of ghosts, the restless spirits of those who can't forgive themselves and those who can't forget.

I'm Amy Brunei, and this is Haunted Road Today. North Adams is the smallest city in Massachusetts, nestled in the Berkshire Mountains of western mass The city is best known as the home of mass Mocha, the Massachusetts Museum of Contemporary Art, but once North Adams was a center of manufacturing during the Industrial Revolution, topping out at a population of twenty four in nineteen hundred, ac Houghton wasn't just

an important figure in the history of North Adams. He was seminal in the founding of the city itself, which was incorporated in eighteen seventy eight and became an official city in eighteen ninety five. Over the course of his career, he served as bank president, away director, and president of

Arnold Printworks, which is now the home of Masmocha. In addition, he served as a delegate at the eighteen ninety two Democratic National Convention and as a commissioner to the Chicago World's Fair in eighteen ninety three, and was a trustee of both Williams College and Boston University. Hoton was also the first mayor of North Adams, taking office in eighteen ninety six. Just after the end of his first term, he commissioned the Houghton Mansion, which would be the third

home for his family in the city. The seventeen room home was built in the neo Classical Revival style, painted off white with gray blue accents on the windows and columns. The mansion featured Greek architectural details like etchings and engravings, and a roof of Spanish tiles inside Italian marble fireplaces reflected the glow of fires on mahogany paneled walls and ceilings.

According to the Ghosts of the Berkshires, the house was intended to be a place where Houghton could enjoy happy times with his beloved family as he retired from public life. Outside in the yard, the Houghton Mansion has a large rock wall separating the yard from the side street. The wall was constructed from rocks removed from the Hoosac Tunnel, which connects North Adams to a neighboring town nicknamed the Bloody Pit. The Hoosac Tunnel has its own dark history.

More than two hundred workers died during its construction, and people to this day report lantern holding apparitions and mysterious voices. Houghton's connection to the tunnel goes beyond building materials. For a time, he was the state director of the Fitchburg Railroad, which owned the Hoosac Tunnel at the time. The mansion was built. The Houghton family consisted of Acy Houghton, his

wife Cornelia, and daughters Florence, Susan, Alice, and Mary. Their first child, Laura, had died at the age of three in eighteen seventy one. Their remaining daughters were grown and only unmarried. Mary moved into the mansion with her parents. In nineteen fourteen, an event occurred that which change the family's fate forever. In the spring of that year, Houghton bought his first automobile, a seven passenger pierced Arrow touring vehicle.

He tasked John Witters, the family's servant of more than forty years, with learning to drive the car, but Whitters did so reluctantly, citing his age and his poor health as reasons he should not be the family's chauffeur, but Houghton insisted. According to a contemporary newspaper account, it is stated that the driver had taken up the duties of chauffeur under protest, but that his employer had insisted that inasmuch as Witters had been such an excellent and careful coachman,

that he would also be a careful auto driver. It has also stated that Whitter's health had not been of the best during the spring and summer. On the morning of August first, nineteen fourteen, the North Adams Evening Transcript reported Houghton and his youngest thirty eight year old Mary, along with family friends doctor Robert Hutton and missus Sibil Hutton, took the car on a pleasure trip to Bennington, just across the border in Vermont, but the car would never

reach its destination. At nine thirty am in pound All, Vermont, the car ascended a steep hill which was known to locals as a dangerous place for cars on the road. A construction crew and team of horses blocked the right side of the road. The Bennington Evening Banner reported that there have been several narrow escapes there. The old railing was taken down while the road was being repaired, and a new one was to have been put up when

the work was completed. John Whitters pulled to the left of the road to avoid the construction The wheel of the car went onto the soft shoulder, causing Witters to lose control. Some witnesses believed that he mistook the accelerator of the car for the break, and some suggested that a cloud of dust impaired his vision. Though the vehicle was only going twelve miles per hour, the driver wasn't

able to regain control. The car slid down a steep embankment, flipping three times and rolling fifty feet before landing in a pasture. Robert Hutton, Sibyl Hutton, Ac Houghton, and John Witters were thrown from the car. Whitters and Robert Hutton only sustained minor injuries, but Houghton suffered a fractured right shoulder. Sibil Hutton was crushed by the vehicle and died at the scene. She was thirty three years old. Mary Houghton was trapped in the backseat of the crushed vehicle and

had to be removed by rescuers. The Bennington Evening Banner reported that she was badly crushed by the car and her spine was fractured. By three pm, the thirty seven year old Mary had passed away. According to the North Adams Evening Transcript, the area was so dangerous that many of those present after it occurred said that they were surprised that a catastrophe had not happened there before. The news of the accident shocked the town's residence, who gathered

together in mourning. The North Adams Evening Transcript reported that news of the accident spread like wildfire throughout the city, and groups of prominent citizens gathered on main Street with anxious faces and expressions of sorrow upon their countenances. One newspaper described Mary as leading a quiet life of self sacrifice, explaining how she devoted herself to caring for her father,

whose health had been precarious for some years past. Another account theorized that Houghton might not survive much longer because of the ordeal. The Bennington Banner wrote, the shock of the accident and what he has sustain than the death of a favorite daughter, have been so depressing that a fatal termination would not be at all surprising. But the first to die in the fallout of the accident would

be John Whitters. Though he was under the watch of family gardener James Hines, who had stayed the night with Witterers out of concern for his mental health, he was able to slip away from the gardener's watch at four am on the morning of August second, nineteen fourteen, the day following the accident, Whitters ended his own life, shooting himself in the head with a volver in the basement of the mansion stables. He was sixty three years old.

According to the Brattleboro Daily Reformer, Whitters brooded over the results of the accident, remarking over and over and over again that he could not live as he had caused the death of Miss Mary and her friend. The Berkshire County Eagle reported that he continually kept saying, I wish it was I and not the girls. Witters was buried in the Houghton family plot. Just nine days later, ac

Houghton passed away in his home. His health had already been failing, and the injuries he sustained in the accident, coupled with the magnitude of his losses, must have surely contributed to his demise. Some said Houghton died of a broken heart. He was seventy years old when he passed. The whole town of North Adams mourned their former mayor on August thirteenth, nineteen fourteen. The day of his funeral,

much of the town shut down. According to the Orkshire Evening Eagle, the Merchants Association attended in a body and all of the public buildings of the city are draped in mourning. The city Hall, public library, fire stations, banks and stores, as well as the transcript office present a somber appearance with their long streamers of black and white bunting.

The sole topic of conversation yesterday was the big things that mister Houghton had accomplished for the city and her people during his lifetime, and the loss the city had sustained in his death. The stores of the city closed at two o'clock and will remain closed until evening. The Arnold print Works, of which he was head, and the Hoosac Cotton Mills, which he formerly owned, closed at noon and remained closed for the day. The wheels and all the factories of the city will be stopped from four

to four oh five. The public library closed this afternoon from two to five out of respect for the late ex mayor. The reason all the machines stopped in the city at four pm was because that was the precise moment of Houghton's interment into the ground. The North Adam's Evening Transcript described these as unusual marks of respect after the accident, one of Houghton's surviving daughters Florence moved into the Houghton Mansion with her husband, William Gallup, who had

been a business partner of her father. Florence looked after her mother, Cordelia Houghton, until the older woman died in nineteen sixteen. The family sold the home to the Lafayette Freemasons in nineteen twenty seven, who added another ten thousand square feet to the mansion's fifteen thousand square feet for a Masonic temple, which was dedicated in nineteen twenty nine. In twenty seventeen, the Masons sold the building due to

financial concerns. It was purchased by hotel developer Benjamin Spenson for one hundred and sixty thousand dollars. Today, the mansion looks much the same as it did in its heyday, with the exception of some peeling paint. The house isn't currently in use and sits empty, or I should say it's empty of living inhabitants. The Houghton Mansion has been described as one of the most haunted houses in all

of New England by a regional PBS station. Over the years, many people have reported unusual incidents there, which are largely attributed to the after effects of the terrible auto accident that befell the Houghton family. Some also speculate that a curse may have been placed on the Houghton family as a result of the Hoosac Tunnel rocks used for the houses stone wall. Multiple Masons claimed to have paranormal experiences

during the buildings ninety years as a Freemason temple. Two Masons spending the night there once heard the door of the building open and shut, followed by the sound of heavy footsteps. They assumed the sounds were being made by fellow Masons, but when the men went to greet them, no one was there and there were no footprints in

the snow outside. Masons had such striking encounters in the mansion that in two thousand and four, Masons Josh and Nick Mantello started a ghost hunting group, Berkshire Paranormal, in response to the experiences they had of the Houghton mansion. Masons have reported seeing darting shadows in the temple area.

Some who have had experiences in the home claim that if you wrap out the opening rhythm of shaven a haircut and the temple, a spirit will respond with two knocks for two bits I think that's a method that we perfected on ghost hunters. By the way, visitors to the mansion have often claimed to have seen Mary Houghton on the upper floors and to hear her voice. According to the Haunted Places, visitors also claim to have felt an overwhelming sense of sadness at Mary Houghton's room. Ghosts

of the Berkshire's right set. When sitting in one particular chair, visitors often claim to be touched by an unseen hand. Ac Houghton has been frequently seen and heard in the house, especially in his bedroom. There, his bedroom door is set to open and close spontaneously, and items in his roomors

sometimes moved when no one is present. According to Paranormal hotspots dot com, when AC's spirit is present, he is often perceived by many sensitives and psychics as an angry spirit does not wish to have strangers in his house. Former driver John Witters has been spotted in the house. He's said to take the form of shadows throughout the space.

The closet doors in what's thought to have been his third floor bedroom are also said to move on their own, and some say they've heard footsteps on the servants stairs leading up to his room. The same deep sadness felt in Mary's room has also been reported here. At least one paranormal group has claimed to record an e VP that's said get out in Witters's bedroom. In the kitchen, people have reported seeing ghostly footprints on the just mopped floor.

According to the Haunted Places site, the basement is said to be one of the most haunted spots in the entire property. In particular, the ghost of a young girl can often be seen walking across the basement and fading into the walls. The girl has been heard giggling and murmuring, and has been seen peeking around doors. She's even a little bit of a prankster. Some have claimed that she's tapped them on the legs, pulled their pant legs, or

tug their hair. The Masons reported seeing her dark shape moving around the basement, as well as small, colorful sparks of light flashing about them in the dark that they have nicknamed Sparkle's one witness. When she appeared on Ghost Hunters, had a different story to share. She said she felt very uncomfortable, like the dark spirit didn't want me down here. Now I know someone who claims he had the most powerful paranormal experience of his life at the Houghton Mansion.

To this day, he counts it as one of the most incredible locations he has ever investigated, and he has some great insight and experiences to share. Up next, we'll be talking to paranormal researcher Tim Weisberg. That's coming up after the break. Now, I am joined by one of my oldest not agewise, but longest, I don't know, one of the first people I met really in the paranormal field, mister Tim Weisberg. Who is You're You're a researcher, you're a host, you're a writer. Like you've done it all.

So welcome, mister Weisberg. Thank you for having me. It's a yeah, just a jack of all trades. Whatever you need in the paranormal I'm your guy. There have been a number of times over the years where I text you the most random stuff and you always come through from you, so I super appreciate you. Now, I think I knew you because i'd been on the show when I lived in California, but I can't remember the first time I met you, but it has been I think

it's been like seventeen or eighteen years. It's been a long time. Yeah, yeah. And what's great about it is that we were able to kind of forge that friendship across the country so that when we finally did meet in person, it didn't seem weird at all. No, not at all. We just knew we were weird and that was enough, right, And and that general weirdness that we have, you know, it doesn't really work for everybody else, but when you get somebody else said has that weirdness, it

becomes like a magnet. Well, I'm glad you're still a part of my world, as Arial says. But anyways, so I reached out to you when it came to Houghton Mansion just because I guess it would be considered almost a local hunt for us because it's in Massachusetts, it's a few hours away, and I know you've investigated it

a number of times. Now. I had this kind of weird Mandela effect thing happening before today, Like I really felt like I had filmed an episode of ghost Hunters there, and I didn't, Like I fully like had this memory of I must have filmed an episode of ghost Hunters there. Now I've been there, but I definitely have never filmed there, but I think you've probably been there more than I have, and so I can't recall what kind of experiences I've had,

but I know you've had many experiences there. Well, what I liked about the Hoton Mansion, and I'm going to speak of it in the past tense because we don't get to investigate it anymore, but it is still there. And what I liked about it was that it was a place where the paranormal was welcomed, which it's not like some of these other historic spots where were kind of forcing ourselves in as paranormal researchers to say, you know, please,

historical society, give us a chance. It was a place that was being run by paranormal investigators who also happened to be Freemasons, and so you really had an easy connection with the spirits that were there because they knew what you were there for and they knew what you were doing, right, And I do remember that part of it, and I haven't touched on actually what happened to the mansion now? It is privately owned now, correct it is, so a few years ago it went up for sale,

So the Freemasons decided that. From my understanding, they decided they didn't want to keep up with this building anymore because, in addition to the lodge that was built inside of it, which was huge unto itself, you know, there was a lot of space associated with this and I'm sure a lot of property taxes as well. So they wanted to get kind of get out from under it, and they put it up for sale. A number of people in

the paranormal had talked about trying to buy it. I know John Zapfas had looked into moving his museum into it, which would have been a perfect fit, but it seemed like the town wasn't really that down with that idea, so it ended up being sold to I think it's an art organization that hasn't really done anything with it yet. So as far as I know, those ghosts are still wandering those halls waiting for someone to come in and talk to them, right. I always wonder, like what happens

to the ghosts at that point? Are they like thankful that we're not there talking to them anymore? Or do they get lonely? Or do you any theories on that? Like, what do you think is happening in the hot And Mansion with the spirits right now. I mean I would say that in general, any haunted location that sits dormant for a while, I wouldn't worry too much about it, because I'm sure time for the spirit world is much

different than it is for us. But at a place like Hoton Mansion, where they were coming all the time, and not just for you know, big investigations and events and things like that, but just Josh and Nick and the and the people who were investigating on a regular basis, they were always in there. So I'm sure to them it's like, you know, losing your loved one all over again. You know, somebody walked in there right now to investigate, either two things would happen. Either you would get nothing,

absolutely nothing, or you'd be overwhelmed with activity. And i think based on the way that the Hote Mansion has always been, it would be the latter. Now, as far as activity goes, what are some of the more common

occurrences that people report there? Well, a lot of people that go their report encountering what they feel are the spirits of Ac Hopton and his daughter, because they feel like, you know, they would be the ones that would be most likely there, and of course they will always have these spirits, these encounters where they feel that it's Mary in her bedroom or you know, Ac in his study in the library downstairs, and of course you would expect

that to happen. But what I find is one of the more intriguing ideas is when people go into the room that they believe was John Witter's room, or at least maybe the room where he committed suicide, or where his spirit went after he committed suicide, I should say, they feel like that room has this overwhelming heaviness. So while you might feel welcomed in the rest of the house, that's a room that is very foreboding, and so it actually takes a certain reserve and a person to be

able to go in there and deal with that. And I've been in lots of rooms where tragedies have happened. I've laid in the spot where Abby Borden's body was found and all those kind of things, and I've never felt the kind of heaviness that you feel in the

room that has associated with John Witters. And I think that's because the guilt that he feels is still palpable all this time later, Yeah, I can imagine like even if his kind of spirit is not there, like what he went through obviously, like he was tremendous for him. And I do like I feel like sometimes those emotional scars just kind of cause activity, or cause hauntings, or you can feel them, you know, years and years later.

Still now when it comes to John Witters, besides that kind of heaviness, what sort of activity do you think would be associated with him in the location? Yeah. A lot of people, of course, will point to the story of seeing a light in the window of that room, and which I can tell you having verified having been in that room. There wasn't electricity being run into that room at least of the time that I was investigating there. You know, in the twenty twelve thirteen era, there was

no electricity running to that room. So for a light to be seen in the window from there with nobody else in the building, I would think that it has to be something that is at least of interest, if not totally paranormal, and that I think is a sign to me that he's still trying to show that he's a good person. That's to me, that's what that light means it's like, please don't don't judge me on what happened in the in the final days of my life.

Please judge me on my entire life overall. And I feel so bad about that because nobody blames John Witters for what happened except John Witters. Yeah. I mean, if there was ever a reason for someone to haunt a place or to stay behind like he has it, you know, there's always that kind of unfinished business, that feeling of guilt, like he is kind of the text book ghost for lack of a better term. But I know you've had personally some pretty profound experiences there, maybe one of your

most profound experiences there. Do you want to elaborate on that? Absolutely? Well. I mean, first of all, we went there. I'll be you know, totally upfront. We went for an event on a Saturday, So this is this is a little bit different than the person who might be going in there for the average paranormal investigation. As you know, you know, things can happen and you don't always have full control

of the situation. So we know that we're going to get in there with about I think there was like fifty or sixty people that were coming to this event, but the night before, we had all got into town the night earlier, and we all met up for dinner, those of us who are like the guests and the people who are running it and everything, and Josh Mantello says to us, all, would you like to go and check out the house tonight before there's a big group

there and you can actually do a real investigation. And if there was maybe a dozen fifteen people sitting around the table, half of them said, now we're just going to go back to the hotel. And I couldn't believe it, Like, what do you mean, You've got the hote mansion to yourself?

This is perfect. So some of us all went over there, and the building lit up for us and like I've never seen in terms of activity, including as we're getting this walking tour from from Josh and Nick Mantello, we're in Witner's room, and as they're talking and telling the story of what people have experienced there, a voice came from the closet, this mumbled, garbled kind of like voice that everybody could hear, and some of the folks that were with us, of course, immediately ran over to the

closet to see what was going on. Is there a tape recorder? Is Josh playing a trick on us? Because you know, we we're the new people here. I could see them pull something on us. And when we opened up the closet, there's nothing in there, and Josh and Nick are saying, no, no, we would never do something like that, and we're trying to figure out what the source of this could be and we can't find anything. So we finish off the tour and we get to see the entire mansion inside and out, even the parts

that people don't normally go into. And then we're all in the library downstairs kind of hanging out, and I heard a noise come from the very top floor, the third floor, and I walked over to the grand staircase, and everybody that's in the house is all downstairs. Nobody could have gotten into the house. Well, I'm standing at the bottom of the staircase and I just yelled up the stairs, is there anybody up there? And a female voice says from the very top no, and then everybody

kind of laughed. But really that just proved to us that there was somebody else there that you know, we couldn't see. That is wild. So it sounds like she did not want you there. If it was Mary, I could kind of understand that. Yeah, you know, then, you know, why would you want these people poking around talking about what happened to you all the time. But yeah, you consider how many people must have gone through that building. How many you know, obviously with the Freemasons, it is

a fraternal organization. It is a male oriented organization, but there are women associated with that. They have the you know, anybody that ever has been a rainbow girl or any of that, those things are all associated with the Mason. So there would have been women in the building, So it could have been anyone, but I'd like to think that it was kind of married, just saying hey, guys,

I'm done for tonight. You come back tomorrow. Sometimes I feel like when we're investigating these poor people become defined by their end. You know, It's almost like the lives that they led before this happened, or the memories that they made in these these buildings, all of that becomes null and void. And that's why I try to encourage investigators to not focus so much on the end, but

focus on the part, the living part. You could, because none of us want to be thought of you as this poor tragic family that this terrible thing happened to. There's so many other facets of their lives that were much more important to them, I'm sure. And so maybe over time they start getting frustrated when people come in

just kind of keep rehashing what happened to the family. Yeah, And when you think about it, I mean, every investigator that comes in, it's their first interaction with with say Mary Hopton, but for Mary Hopton it's her ten thousandth investor you investigation that she's been part of, So for her to have to keep asking answering that question all the time, you know, tell us about the car crash, Mary, tell us what was going through your mind when the

car crash? Mary? Like that is it's got to be not only you know, tragic to have to relive that, but it's also going to get kind of monotonous as well. Absolutely, And so I mean I think that's actually a very valuable lesson for investigators or people looking to investigate, is you know, don't just study what happened, like how what the end result was, but study like the entire life of someone that you are trying to reach out to because Ozar, most people aren't walking in with that knowledge.

I mean that can be the difference between them interacting with you or not, you know, especially in the case of the Hotans, they do have such interesting history associated with them besides this terrible car crash, right, and when you think about the fact that that house was built basically on the sweat that Acy Holton had put in his entire life to amass that fortune that he did, you know, that was his way of kind of saying, hey,

I've made it. And you know, when you've got guests coming into your home, the home that you're so proud of, don't you think you would want to talk about that and show that off and talk about, you know, how you were able to do this and where you picked out this from and all that, rather than saying, you know, all right, let's talk about the car crash again. So I like to poke around, especially a place like that, there's so many twists and turns you're walking around, you know,

recording EVPs. You can say, well, tell me about this room, Macy, why did you decide to design it this way? Or who who made the decision to go with that molding and you'll probably find that you'll get more reaction that way. You know, everybody's favorite subject to talk about as themselves and the choices that they've made. So I'd much rather

talk about that than the way that I died. Have you heard the theory that some of the stones there might be leading to some of the hauntings because they came from, like I think it's the Hoosic Tunnel nearby. What do you think about that? Do you think that's a possibility. I think so, and I think that that, you know, that's something that living in the Bridgewater Triangle, we see that in a lot of the buildings that are haunted here is you know, we'll say to people, well,

what's the foundation of your home. They'll say, well, it's fieldstone, or it's granite, or it's you know, so something like that, and you say, okay, well let's trace where it might have come from. You find out it came from the quarry that's out in the Freetown State Forests. So right at the heart of the Bridgewater Triangle, they're they're picking up the materials to build their homes out of it.

And I think the same thing can happen out there as well, if they're taking that, you know, building that tunnel and blasting away stone, and they've got to do something with that stone, Let's put it into these nice ornate homes out here. That probably won't cause any problems.

And I do think that it's probably fair to say that people might not have known at the time that that tunnel had those hauntings associated with it, and I think it's something that predates there being the tunnel there, you know, I think it's that land there, So they probably didn't know any better when they did it, but I'm sure that some homes regret it now. Yeah, you know,

years ago, we investigated a residence that was built with lumber. Basically, these people have been forcibly moved so that they could flood the town with a dam, and so a lot of the people kind of just took their houses down with the idea they would rebuild elsewhere, and then a lot of them did not, and so this house was constructed of other people's homes that had been moved because of this dam, and a lot of the activity was

because of that. And so yeah, I think building materials, you don't think about it, but they can harbor something. What I also found interesting about the way that it was built is you've got this beautiful, ornate mansion that was constructed the way that the Hotans wanted it to be, and then you have the Freemasons when they took it over or they start constructing the Masonic lodge within the middle of it, which when you think about it, it's an odd blueprint, it's an odd floor plan to have

it built this way. And now you're inserting everything that is associated with the Freemasons into the heart of this building. So you've got all of all the ceremony, all the things that go on now being amplified and recorded by these materials that are surrounding it completely. People always come to us thinking that, you know, buildings and had the Freemasons in them at some point are haunted because you know,

they called on spirits or whatever it is. And I actually think it has more to do with just the ritual aspect of it and the emotions kind of put into what they were doing. You know, it's kind of the same idea anywhere where there's there's rituals happening, like there is this kind of you know, there's this major intention put into those and a lot of them are

the same thing over and over and over again. I kind of forgot that aspect of like what an interesting haunt it is that you have obviously this family that was there and everything they went through, and then on top of that, the Freemasons made it a lodge, and then on top of that, you've got these building materials from this local tunnel that's supposedly super haunted, and it's just got so many facets to it. It's really interesting.

And I have a little bit of a theory as to why the Freemasons might draw out more of the hotan activity as well, and why Free Masonic lodges have these ghosts associated with them. It's because Freemasons, you know, the belief and a higher power is the key central point of what they believe in, but they don't need

to have all the religious dogma associated with it. So when somebody goes in to investigate a haunted location, they've got to kind of check their own personal religious beliefs at the door, because some religions tell you that you shouldn't be talking to spirits, you shouldn't believe in spirits, that spirits are actually the devil trying to manipulate you. All these different belief systems that come into it can

screw with the interaction a little bit. When you're dealing with freemasons who just say, listen, we don't care how you believe, as long as you leave, as long as you believe in something greater than yourself. I think that makes it a lot easier for this activity to come through. Yeah, I hadn't really thought of it that way before. That's

really interesting. Now, did you have any other experiences there while you were visiting, Well, when you were talking about the way that you make these connections with the spirits there, that is the place. The Hote Mansion is the place that actually changed me as an investigator, because I was somebody who was kind of impatient on investigations. I would go in guns blazing, you know, and say, come on, ghost, come out, show us who killed you? How'd you die?

Wouldn't you die? How long you've been here? Like I'm I just want my questions answered and I want to kind of move on. And it was the Hote Mansion that, you know, for lack of a better term, taught me that ghosts are people too, right. It was in the lodge itself, there's a section in the back where they used to have secret ceremonies, and then over that section there was another kind of secret area and we were

investigating in there. We were getting all kinds of noises, and you know, if we did Knox, we would get Knox in response. So if we did the old shaven a haircut, we'd get the two bits back. And all

the stuff was happening. We stood there and started to watch shadow figures emerge and start walking down the hallway, to the point where at one point we're watching a procession of them walk right in front of our eyes down the hallway, And that alone was kind of mind blowing because that was the most intense shadow activity i'd

had to that point. But a little bit later on in the evening, there was one shadow way down at the end of the hall by itself, and we were kind of calling him down, and over the course of a good amount of time, we finally got him to come down and stand in front of us. So we're

seeing this shadow person standing right before our eyes. There was myself and about four other people, and I held my hand out and this shadow person actually grabbed my hand, wrapped its hand around my hand and began pumping my arm up and down in a handshake motion. So I shook hands with the shadow person. That is intense. It really was the most intense thing that's ever happened to

me in an investigation because I just started crying. I couldn't help it, Like the tears just started coming out of my eyes because I realized, like all of this stuff that I've been chasing around, I knew that it was real. I knew the activity was real, but I didn't realize the humanity behind it. And I went downstairs and everybody could tell something had happened to me, and I had to make the decision do I tell people about what happened to me because they're not going to

believe me. And this is to this point, I'd done a bunch of events, but I'd never been the person to have the personal experience. I didn't want to be because I knew people would think I was just making it up because I want to sell tickets to the next event. I was really nervous about saying anything. And I talked with a friend of ours, Frank Grace, the photographer, and he said, no, dude, you've got to tell people.

If it affected you that much, and when I told everybody, you know, and actually everybody did believe me and was very supportive, but it changed who I was as a person and as an investigator going forward. I love that experience. That's insane, and I wish that would happen to me, like I would love nothing more that they're just very cordially greet a ghost like would like a living person in front of you, like a handshake and a hello, like. I think that is amazing, and I think it also

shows the power of the personal experience. I think a lot of us start doing this to collect evidence and we want to, you know, prove that ghosts exist, or we want to have something crazy happen, and then at some point, like your equipment and collecting you know, evidence, I say with air quotes, becomes so much less important than these kind of personal experiences that solidify your theories and your thoughts and again bring humanity to your experiences

and to these these spirits. And I think it makes the more passionate type investigators like once you make that shift, and so it sounds like that was that moment for you, oh for sure, And it put a thought into my head that I'm sure that you've had in your head many times and your investigations too, where I thought to myself, maybe I should stop doing this and just leave them alone. But then, you know, you realize that they are reaching out to you because they do have something to say,

and that you can be the conduit for that. You know, obviously there are some spirits in some places that that don't want to interact and so they just choose not to. But um, I realized there that you know, to do this now going forward. I was that person. I got into this with that idea, I'm going to be the person that's going to catch the evidence it's going to prove to the world that goes too real. And then that that was the night that made me realize that,

you know, it's not about that. It's about bringing people to where they can have a one on one experience to either you know, help them believe something they weren't open to before, or to solidify that belief that they always had but needed the proof. Right, Yeah, exactly. I mean, I I love that, and you know it's it is you know, to your point of kind of thinking for

a moment, should we leave them alone? You know, you have to kind of instill like free will and free thought on them, Like they will tell you if they want you to leave them alone, but if they would like to interact with you, they will. It's just like any living person standing right in front of you, and how many people do ignore them, you know, And that's why there's people like us who do at least try

to reach out and in your case, actually shake their hand. Yeah, And what I've found to be kind of the lasting thing that stuck with me is that feeling of there was no difference between me and whatever the thing was that was shaking my hand. So you know, in some cases, you look at these stories that you hear and people will tell you, well, I saw their shadow figure and it's I smelled sulfur, so it must have been a demon or you know, you hear all these characterizations that

people have. That experience gave me enough of an up close experience that I can say that I just I feel comfortable around these entities that they really are just another person and I don't need to start to worry about all these you know, maybe maybe some of these manifestations are other things, but from that point on, I always kind of looked at everything as being you know, just like me, and thinking about it that way has

changed the way that I asked the questions. It's the way that I try to get interaction, and it's made me feel better when I leave each location that I hopefully, at the very least gave them some entertainment for the night. Yeah seriously, Well, I'm sure you did, and I love that. So now, on that note, tell us where people can find you. What is Tim Wiseberg up to these days? Oh,

I'm always talking about the paranormal somewhere or other. But my home base is the Spooky South Coast radio show and podcast, which you can get anywhere podcasts are found. I have my own network, the midnight FM network Midnight dot FM, where I do a show on Friday nights called Midnight Society. And basically, you know, for me, it's all about any opportunity I can have to talk about

this stuff. So sometimes I might work behind the scenes on things, sometimes I might be in front of the camera on some things, but I you know, I'm always looking for a way to make these stories kind of more palatable for people, and to make it so that they realize that when they do have something strange happened to them. It's okay, it's the paranormals actually kind of normal. Yeah, well, I thank you so much for coming on the show.

It's great to talk to you. And yeah, as always, I super appreciate you Tim, you are an awesome person, and everyone out there, I highly recommend you seek him out if you are not familiar with him already. Like I said, I was a Tim fan well before I was ever on television. I was listening to Spooky South Coast way back in the day in California. So it's definitely well worth the seeking out of mister Weisberg. So

thank you, sir. I really appreciate you taking the time. Well, thank you, and thank you for all your support over the years. Potent Mansion has become that empty mansion in the neighborhood that kids ride their bicycles by, quickly wondering what could be lurking inside. It's the stuff of legends

and lore and most assuredly haunted. But I think good stands as a reminder of something else, a lesson each of us could take stock in the realization that you can be on top of the world, you can have every part of your beautiful life, meticulously planned and accounted for, but one moment can derail it all horribly. Never forget that. Always live life to its fullest, because you never know when a dark hour may be lurking ahead. I'm Amy

Bruney and this was Haunted Road. Haunted Road is hosted and written by me Amy Bruney, with additional research by Taylor Haggerdorn and Cassandra day Alba. This show is edited and produced by Rima el Kali, with supervising producer Josh Thane and executive producers Aaron Manky, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. Haunted Road is a production of iHeartRadio and Grimm and

Mile from Aaron Manke. Learn more about this show over at Grimm Andmild dot com, and for more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.