Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of iHeartRadio and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Manky. Listener discretion is advised. Early in the morning of December twentieth, nineteen sixty four, flames blazed against the darkened sky, erupting from a fire in a home in Palmyra, New York. The house burned so intensely that the city's fire chief told a contemporary newspaper, when we got there, the flames were shooting into the middle of the street. It took seventy five firefighters from
four towns over three hours to quell the blaze. When the smoke cleared, they recovered the bodies of twenty six year old ruth Anna Breden and her six children, Marion Eddie Edward age eight, Dennis Wayne aged six, Susan Pauline age five, Mitchell Eugene age four, or Sharon Faith age three, and Samuel David age two. Eddie and Samuel's bodies were found under a mattress, their bodies so dehydrated from the intense flames that rescuers reportedly mistook the corpses for dolls.
Ruth Anna and her other four children had died together, the woman having attempted to shield the children from the flames. The fire had so completely destroyed the building that the family was all found in the basement, the floor having collapsed in on itself. While the charred remains of the house were torn down, the basement and foundation remained intact. Today. The site of what has been described as the worst fire tragedy in Wayne County's history is the site of
the Palmyra Historical Museum. Once a tavern and inn, the museum was moved to the foundation of the Breeden House as part of a historic district called the Historic Palmyra Museum's District, and as you might guess from its tragic past, the location is haunted with so much activity, including doors slamming, mysterious footsteps, and disembodied voices, that the museum's director describes it as the most haunted place in the Finger Lakes.
I'm Amy Bruney, and welcome to Haunted Road. A colonial town in upstate New York of about eight thousand people, Paulmyro was named for the ancient Syrian city of the same name in seventeen ninety seven. Its location on the Erie Canal, which was completed in eighteen twenty five, created a prosperous environment for locals. Paulmyro is sometimes called the Queen of the Canal Towns, but its biggest claim to
fame is very different than waterway based commerce. The town is the birthplace of Joseph Smith, founder of Mormonism, who was born on a farm that straddled Palmyra and the
adjoining town of Manchester. It's where Smith claimed to have received the golden tablets that became the Book of Mormon from an angel, and it's where the first Book of Mormon was printed in eighteen twenty nine and eighteen thirty Beginning in nineteen thirty seven, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints hosted the hill Camorra Pageant in
Palmyra each July. This play, which depicted events from the Book of Mormon and the church's history, took place near the location where Joseph Smith was said to have been visited by the angel. The pageant's final year was in twenty nineteen, after the church announced an end to most of their long running shows. One last pageant was planned for twenty twenty, but was postponed due to COVID and
eventually canceled altogether. Today, The town's biggest tourist draw is the Historic Palmyra District, a group of five museums on a preserved city block of Market Street, comprised of the Palmyra Historical Museum, Erie Canal Depot, Phelps General Store, a print shop, and All In Coverlet Museum, which has America's
largest collection of hand woven coverlets. The Palmyra Historical Museum in Phelps General Store are said to be haunted, although some claim that unexplained footsteps and voices can be heard in the Erie Canal Depot and the print shop as well. The Palmyra Historical Museum is housed in a building that was formerly an inn in Tavern that dates back as early as eighteen twenty six. In the late eighteen hundred zero, owners added the front section of the building, which became
the restaurant's bar. During the years that it operated as the Saint James Hotel in Riefenberg Saloon. It's said that at least one murder by stabbing took place in the bar. In nineteen seventy six, the building was moved from its original location a block away on William Street to the foundation that previously held up the breed In House. The move save the historic building, which was slated for demolition, but it in inherited a dark history with that relocation.
The tragedy that took the lives of seven Bredens was never fully solved. In nineteen sixty four, local newspaper The Democrat and Chronicle reported that the fire was ruled an accidental fire of undetermined origin, but the circumstances of the fire were mysterious, to say the least. To start. The fire spread so quickly and burned so intensely that it
is suspected an accelerant was used. Neighbors said that they attempted to get into the house and help the family, only to be faced with a wall of flames when they opened the door. The fire also destroyed the two adjacent houses, leaving eleven people homeless, though no one in those homes was harmed. And then there was Paul Breeden, ruth Anna's husband and the father of their six children.
He was conveniently absent from the house at the time, having returned home just an hour after the fire started from a business trip in Chicago. As Patty Unvarick wrote in Ghosts and Hauntings of the Finger Lakes, there are people who say that he set the fire to free himself of the burden of a large family. Others say that he was so distraught over the news of his family member's death that he had to be sedated, or could it have been the overwhelming guilt over what he
had done. I personally read a letter Paul wrote regarding the events of that night, and it is a bit suspicious. Anna and her children were buried in a single casket in a cemetery in Tennessee, where the Breedens were originally from. When the new building was moved to that foundation, there was still debris and ash from the fire in the basement, which is still there to this day. Bonnie Hayes, the Palmyra Museum's executive director, believes that at one point she
found a small bone in the rubble. Today, museum staff still hangs stockings for the children at Christmas, and visitors sometimes bring toys to fill them. The Palmyra Historical Museum, a grand white building was a red dad door, has twenty three rooms, each with a different theme and each full to bursting with historic artifacts. The Military Room contains uniforms and memorabilia from American wars. The Doctor's office features
medical devices, including an electroshock machine. The morning room includes a mannequin dressed in Civil War era morning dress who is referred to by staff as Gloria. The Religion room includes information on Palmyra's famous four churches, all built on different corners of an intersection, as well as a mannequin of Joseph Smith dressed in a costume from the hill Camora pageant. Even the buildings hallways have historical pictures lining
the walls. Many believe that the hauntings in the building are tied to these objects. Musical instruments are said to play by themselves in the religious room. Security cameras in the merchant room once picked up a picture being carefully lifted off its hook and laid face up in the front of the door, with no one nearby to explain
the move. In the d doctor's room, staff report encountering a spirit called the dark Man, who is possibly attached to the electroshock machine, which sometimes turns on by itself. Some believe that in life, the dark Man was teased for having physical deformities. One former employee, Kathy Woodlock, related an experienced she believes was related to the dark Man as Tammy Whitaker. Reported in The Daily Messenger. Upstairs in the doctor's office, Woodlock recalled witnessing the possession of a
psychic medium. She said the medium went limp and then her hands came up curled like claws. Then, Woodlock said, the female medium began speaking in a man's voice, sharing an eerie message. I'm going to get even with them. I'm going to fry their brains. One investigator believes that the spirit of a crooked doctor who performed unnecessary procedures is present in the room, who is also connected to the electroshock equipment, but it's not clear whether this is
the same entity as the dark Man. He's said to especially dislike women. According to Ghosts and Hauntings of the Finger Lakes, if a person stands in the center of the medical room with his hands stretched out, a tingling feeling will run through it. The children's room at the museum, which displays historical toys from different eras, is also said to be haunted. Specifically, it's believed to be haunted by
the spirits of the six Breeden children. According to The Daily Messenger, a tape recorder placed in the empty room revealed forty five minutes of children at play, with the sounds of toys moving and metal roller skates clanging, but nothing in the room was out of place. It's said that the children will open the door of a cabinet where toys are kept, as well as moving around toys
that are on display. The spirits of the breed and children are said to grab the hands and touch the hair of visitors, and some say that they can sometimes smell phantom smoke in the museum even though it was never touched by that fire. When staff open up the museum when it's been closed for the night or after a weekend, they often report items being disturbed when no
one living was around to disturb them. As Bonnie Hayes, the Palmyra Museum's former executive director, told The Daily Messenger, a large framed picture of oj Garlock had come off the wall where it had been securely hanging for the past five years. The picture had dropped some five or more feet, landed face down on the floor, but the glass hadn't broken. The other museum in historic Palmyra that's
believed to be haunted is the Phelps General Store. Originally constructed in eighteen twenty six, the building served as a boarding house tavern bakery and grocery store. In eighteen sixty eight, William Phelps purchased the building and remodeled it into a general store. He and his family, wife Catherine, son Julius,
and daughter Mary Louise lived upstairs from the business. William was prominent in the community, serving as village president in eighteen seventy six, as well as stints as a police justice justice obsessions, village treasurer, village trustee, and as a member of the school board. When he retired around eighteen ninety five, his son Julius took over the business. Julius, his wife Mary Maimie Aldrich, and their daughter Sybil continued to live in the building. The once prosperous family lost
its money during the Great Depression. The store operated until July nineteen forty, when Julius closed it up one day and never opened it again. Some believe that Julius was frustrated by the number of customers who never paid their tabs in addition to increasing taxes from the government. As Tracy Murphy wrote in The Fingerlakes Times. Many have speculated he was tired of the storekeeper's life or nervous about
the upcoming War. Whatever the reason, we know that the family did not enter the store after that day, but continued living upstairs. Because Julius locked the store one day and never opened it again, the space became a time capsule of life in nineteen forty. The Florida ceiling shelves are still stocked with items left behind from the day the store closed. Pre World War II versions of familiar brands like Tide, Felvida, Armenhammer, Heinz Pickles, and Kellogg's Cornflakes
on the counter still. The museum's motto, fittingly is where time stands Still. On the counter remains a ledger with customers names and amounts they owed. Though the family never re entered the store, they lived out their remaining years in the two floors of living space above. Sybil Phelps, Julius and Maymie's only child, had hoped to make it as a musician or an actor, attending Rochester's eastmand School of Music, followed by drama school in New York City.
In addition to singing, she played the organ, piano, and guitar. However, her drama school shut down due to the Great Depression and her family's money had run out. Sybil unhappily returned home in nineteen twenty six, taking up work as a tombstone distributor and earning money through piano lessons. Around the time of Sibyl's return to Palmyra, she discovered spiritualism, which had started about eighty years prior in nearby Hydesville, New York.
As she delve deeper into her interests in numerology and astrology, Sybil became known as a recluse in town. Although she had frequent correspondence with people who shared her interest circus performers, musicians, and actors, including a year's long correspondence with Greta Garbo, some locals thought she was more than just a recluse, interpreting her old fashioned black dresses and wide brimmed hats as witches garb. Though she lived in her parents large house,
she lived without electricity or running water. The Victorian style home ran on gas lamps installed by her grandfather William, and used an outhouse behind the store. She also had as many as fifteen cats at a time. The number of mirrors in the home, especially those facing each other, leeds former museum director Bonnie Hayes to believe she practiced s crying with them. Some think Sybil also made use
of a crystal ball. She lived in the house until her death in nineteen seventy six, the year after Historic Palmyra bought the building and turned it into a museum. The first floor grocery store museum is a tribute to how people shopped nearly a century ago. The upper two
stories are a tribute to how they lived. The Phelps' original furniture, including their piano, is still present in the family's eight rooms, which included a dining room with lace curtains and a table set for afternoon tea, a sitting room, and a sick room where Sibyl's grandparents and parents are all believed to have spent their final days. Local spiritualists celebrate Sibyl's birthday every year on October tenth, and it's
said that she often makes appearances at these parties. But that's not the only day Sybil makes appearances in the home where she lived and died. One employee at the museum was vacuum the third floor when he saw a full body manifestation of Sybil Phelps, according to The Daily Messenger. According to this employee, Phelps told him not to touch her things, he's refused to enter the third floor again. Others have claimed to see Sybil walking through the kitchen
or sitting at her piano on the second floor. According to Ghosts and Hauntings of the finger Legs, an impression of a figure has often been seen in the bed in her room in the southeast corner of the third floor. Visitors who sit at the dining room table on the second floor also report the sound of a spoon clinking against a teacup. People report hearing piano music on the upstairs floors, said to be Sybil playing the piano, or sometimes her cats walking across the keys. The cats in
particular pop up often. Visitors have reported hearing them meow, feeling them rub against their legs, and even seeing them walk through the place. On the first floor, people hear disembodied voices they send someone breathe in their ear, and sometimes smell the scent of phantom cigars. The lamp in the store is said to swing gently, even in the absence of a breeze. Investigators have recorded EVPs that sound like a voice listing prices, which they believe is a
residual haunting. When a ghost leaves a psychic imprint on the place on the second floor. According to Ghosts and Hauntings of the finger Lakes, the shadow of a small boy appears running through the kitchen before disappearing into the door, which rattles as it passes through it. The spirit of a child named Holly, said to be an eight year old girl who died in eighteen thirty six, has been said to be present in the sitting room on the
second floor. As The Daily Messenger reported, the child is best known for touching visitors hands when they sit on a chair next to the table she is allegedly hiding under with several other spirit children. One visitor saw what she thought was a doll in the room, only to realize that there was no doll present. Holly's identity is unknown, but some thing she was a resident of the boarding house from before the Phelps family moved in. Others believe she was the victim of a horse accident in front
of the store. Even Julius himself is suspected of haunting the building. He's especially sensed in the sick room on the second floor. According to Ghosts and Hauntings of the finger Legs, he doesn't want anyone especially women in there. Julius doesn't really make his presence known, however, anyone can sense a heaviness in the air as he waits impatiently for them to move along. He still likes his privacy,
just as he did when he was alive. Up next, we will be talking to the museum's director, Tracy Murphy. She is one of the most engaging people I've met on a case, and she's incredibly knowledgeable on not only the history of the museum, but it's many haunts. So that is coming up after the break. So I am now joined by Tracy Murphy, who is the director of the Palmira Museum and someone that we worked with when we filmed Kindred Spirits there. So it's great to hear your voice, Tracy.
Thank you, Amy, thanks for inviting me.
Of course, to this day, I would say that the museum is probably one of my favorite places I've ever investigated. It's just, to me, one of the most haunted places I've ever been.
I love doing it.
You get to work there every day, yes, I do. And you know, we were there for like four or five days and the activity was just incessant and we couldn't even show it all on the show, and so is it just like that all the time being there?
I would say ninety percent of the time. All of the buildings have some activity going on any given day at any given time.
So I think that's really interesting because well, the activity that we encountered was well, at one point in the basement, we did have something slam on the door very loudly and just it was very much like I couldn't tell if it was trying to get our attention or if it was trying to tell us to like get out of there. What is your impression of activity like that when it happens.
Most of the time, if it has to do with the basement, I prefer not to be involved. The basement is just one of the creepiest places in the whole museum. And I know people will say, well, basements are kind of creepy, but ours just has a special vibe to it. And quite honestly, if we hear like it sounds like something is fallen down in the basement, we tend to ignore it until we have a volunteer come in and then I'll send them down to investigate.
Do they know this or is this going to be news to them when they listen to the FOD.
This is probably going to be news to them. I mean, never have another volunteer.
Everyone has to, you know, do their part, especially with their new bees.
Yeah, it's a test of strength.
Yeah, I mean, I think when we were down there, it almost seemed like there was someone hiding down there. Was the vibe. Was the vibe that we got, and like they we were getting kind of too close for their comfort, is what it seemed like. And I think Chip picked up on that as well. But then in the rest of the location, it just seems like a lot of different spirits. I think people probably focus on the fire a lot, but I think there's so much
going on. Who do you think is like, maybe your most prevalent spirits there?
I would say generally the bartender is very present in the front of the building, in the bar room itself. But we also have been getting and I think we touched on this too, that we've been getting some different visitors. One of them was the little boy that his portrait is on the wall and he really didn't have anything to do with the museums, but he comes in. We do have some shadowy figure that's upstairs in the hallway at the end. We don't really know who he is,
but he's up there quite a bit. And I think that's one of the more interesting things about our building, especially the historical museum, is because it was a hotel, we had so many visitors, and I think there is some bit of a residual effect that they have left.
Now, what about the poker playing ghost. Is he still around?
So Jack, Yes, Jack is still around.
We're getting ready to collect.
His pot, so to speak.
We've got quite a pile of money over the around the bed. We have one more ghost for the month, and we're gonna wait and see, you know how what his winnings are because he's really good at his game.
Yeah, so this was something we couldn't show on the episode either. But we did play blackjack with him, and I did win a few hands, i must say, but he was quite a character. And so I think the way we did this, and trying to remember, I think the way we did it was either with the K two or the spirit box, but basically we kind of made a signal for like, you know, stay hit yep. Yeah, and it worked. I was like, I'm I feel I'm literally playing blackjack with a ghost exactly.
Yes, And you know, it's so fascinating because I think that shows people how intelligent they are.
Yeah, and it also shows you know, the power of a gambling addiction. It follows you in the afterlife. The other spirit that we encountered that did not make the show, but still stands as one of the most wild experiences I've had. And I'm pretty sure we played you the audio from this. But so what people don't know, I'm sorry if you haven't. If the people haven't watched the episode of Kindred Spirits, I highly recommend you go check it out if you haven't. What people don't know is
that we had to cut one of two things. It was either cut the whole Sybil seance session, which Sybil was a spiritualist who we believe haunts the building, or cut the crazy experience that we had with the woman moaning walking down the stairs. And so we had to cut the woman moaning walking down or the hallway rather.
And so that moment was we were standing in the doctor's room and there was this doctor's bag that I'm sure we remember that seemed to have some energy attached to it that was negative and did not like women for whatever reason, and so we moved that bag. Adam moved it, but he didn't tell me where he put it, and apparently he put it in some sort of women's history room.
Yeah, in our morning room of all places, oh.
In the morning.
Yeah.
And the next thing you know, we hear this very typical like this sounded like you would expect a ghost to hear. We hear coming down the hallway footsteps and this voice that is just like like this wailing ghost. And I looked at Adam and I was like, what is that? And our entire crew was just like bewildered. We'd never heard anything like that. And I'm like, Ana, where did you put the bag? And he was like, the morning.
Room, not.
Whatever. I could remember what it was, but just remembered it being like the wrong place. And so I might be able to dig that audio up and play it on the podcast because it was so awesome.
What that's the hallway? Is that it's like something moving? Then is there anyone shuffling their feet? Did you hear the howling? Yeah? You heard that writing like a woman moaning.
Oh yeah, literally, ghost, a ghost and a creek is a creek and a.
But it was coming from the hallway, not in here.
What was going on here?
Okay, I don't know. Maybe they're maybe they're banking what they're hearing.
Maybe they're pissed you put that bag off the you pissed? There's the bag is out there and that goes you put in the doll room?
No, no, where'd you put it in the morning room? No?
Yeah, we said put it somewhere, and you don't know, I put it in the morning room.
So maybe somebody's like, no.
We'll bring it back in here in a second.
Hold on, there could be somebody from that morning, because that's for the sound of morning, isn't it the sound of morning? The oh I want to cry right now.
I'm just like, I can't believe this is happening. But yeah, so that was a wild moment. Have you heard that since or had you heard that before?
We've heard crying, but not to that extent. You know, usually we hear a little like weeping or you know, just a little and sniffles, but not to that extent. That was definitely, that was pretty amazing.
So everyone wants to know what did you do with the haunted doctor bag?
Well, we tell people when they ask that they have to come and find out for themselves.
Oh yeah, okay, that's fair. Still I have always encouraged people to visit.
We still have it.
Oh and the doctor's room, I.
Have to say, has changed a little bit. It's not as heavy as it was before. However, people and mostly women still go in and say it doesn't feel.
Good in here. Yeah, yeah, but not to the extent I don't believe it, which is good to know. Yes, okay, So do you think that those children haunt the building from the fire?
I don't. I don't think they're they're haunting us. They're here, We do experience, you know, we see them every once in a while. It's actually kind of interesting saying that they've been spotted at the Phelps.
In the in the upstairs, so they're.
Actually Now we've had mediums and sensitives that have been experiencing three of the children, and not the two that we typically interact with over here.
These are the two sisters and one of the brothers. And it's very strange because this particular group they didn't really know anything about the family, They didn't really want to know a lot of things, and so when they were over there, this person saw three children very clearly asked them, what are your names? Came back over here for you know, validation, and I said, oh, I can tell you. You know, we we have children over here. I can raw out some names. And it was three of their names.
That's interesting. And so now remind me the Phelps building is? Which building is where Sybil?
Oh?
Okay, so that's upstairs in that beautiful kind of.
Victorian And it was on the second floor, yes, which is very strange to me because normally, you know, we have a couple children over there that we're familiar with, but it's never been the children from here at the at the historical.
What do you think is drawing them over there and.
Not really she I don't know if it's like a sense of comfort that maybe Sybil presents to them. You know, we've often wondered, because Sybil was here in nineteen sixty four when the fire took place, did she see them, you know, after before during It's a lot there's a lot of questions, you know, with.
That, right. I Actually I remember pondering that as well, because she definitely would have been alive and living in that building at the time, probably fearful for her own house at the time too.
Well, and I'm sure they have evacuated her because you know, being so close, she was only a building away, so you know, it would seem to me that it would make sense that you're going to evacuate the buildings around the big fire, and so she would have been outside, you.
Know, right, I mean she may have even come to think she may have even known those children in life, right.
That's what I was thinking too, because we do know that the older boy, Eddie, he was nine, and he did remember, you know, he used to say, mister Phelps is mean her father. So it makes you wonder what kind of interactions she had with them. You know, she was kind of keep to herself, kind of gale, but you know, who knows. I just it's so.
It's just so interesting to me.
Well, it's a very complicated haunt because it has so many different players, Like there's so many different intelligent type spirit it's there, And if you really think about it, was Sybil like her belief in life was that, you know, we survived in the afterlife somehow. She was a spiritualist, a very active spiritualist. She worked very hard to commemorate
the Fox Sisters memorial. You know, and so it would make sense that she would be very intrigued with what you're doing there and with the you know, existence of spirits in the space. And so maybe now with so much back and forth and people investigating it, I mean, who knows, maybe that kind of brought them together in some way.
You know.
And everybody is always curious, you know, like, oh, have your investigations ramped up after Kindred Spirits work here? And I always say yes, they most certainly did. We find that Sybil enjoyed her fifteen minutes of fame and she wants more. Definitely.
So are you saying she's a little more active than she was before.
Yes, definitely.
And it's not in a very she's not subtle about it, Like she's very good now about presenting herself in a very large, loud way. There's no staffing her.
Now what does she do?
We've been getting a lot of very loud bangs over there. Now she will come to the spirit box.
And we'll talk to our visitors.
Just very interesting things. Funny story. We just we had our exterminator here. They come twice a year for us to spray on the outsides of the building and inside. If we need them, and he came right to the building and he said, listen, I was here last year. I wasn't even going to tell my boss that I wasn't that I wasn't going to go in. I was just going to park my car out from to show I was here because last year. He said, I didn't even touch any of the stairs coming off the third floor.
I'm not going in there. And I just looked at him and I was like, what are you talking about? And he's like, I was on the third floor and I heard a woman's voice say, don't touch my dress. And I just I said, why don't you tell us these things? And he's like, I'm not going in there alone. You have to be with me. You know what?
Goodness, was there a dress up there?
There is a dress in the other room that belonged to her, and you know, maybe he was getting too close to it and she didn't like it. But he's not the first person to report to us that she was very verbal about leaving my stuff alone.
Wow, go Sybil. I do know when we were doing the seance with our psychic Heather, who is amazing, there were these moments where we were just all hearing footsteps walk across the floor to us so loud, and then it was almost like someone was standing there kind of thinking about entering the circle. We save the space for Sybil, and you could hear like kind of a rocking and like someone just standing there. And again, this this was probably the one case where like our entire crew was
just like what is going on here? Usually they're just I mean, they have experiences, but many times our camera crew they're all business. You say them, they're very hard working, they're you know they but they are like non stop. They don't really have time to have experiences sometimes. But this was the one place where, like, you know, at night, we'll all go back to the hotel and shit chat
for a little while after we're done filming. And this was the one place where they were like they didn't like having to go up to that third floor by themselves. They didn't like having to go into the basement alone. Like yeah, and all these are pretty tough guys exactly so, but they admitted it like that that that place felt different,
and it really does. Everywhere you go through the building feel you feel something, and each area feels differently, like sometimes you feel very happy and safe sometimes you feel like somebody's watching me. So now, have you had any recent people come in who just had had enough and had to leave and didn't want to come.
Back other than our bun guy. No, his poor face, and you know we knew he was genuine because he really was, Like I wasn't even going to come in, Like we've lost people because of your buildings, and I'm just like, oh gosh, I'm so sorry.
Let us know.
We'll go in prior and say, hey, guys, we get the bug. People come in today, be nice. But no, you know, I think the really neat thing about our buildings when we have investigators come in, there's always something that leads them wanting just a little bit more, which is great because you know, sometimes you go to a location, maybe you get a little bit, maybe you don't get anything. And not to say that you know everybody who comes to her gets something.
Because sometimes you don't. But we find like.
We get a lot of people who want to come back because there was so much and they want to investigate just a little bit more or go in a different direction, which is really.
Cool to me. And I love seeing the old school stuff.
Yeah, I mean, that's definitely the camp that I'm in, Like that was one of those places that just got me really excited about the paranormal, you know, and I think I could see how that, you know, I want to tell people that if you go to this, to Paulmyra and you investigate here, just know that not every haunt.
Is like that, right exactly.
Yes, it's not usually that easy, and I'm sure there's times people come in and it's quiet, of course, but like for us, that was never a factor, Like it was just nonstops. Now when they do kind of go quiet, do you ever think there's a reason, you.
Know, I think that it's like it's kind of like us on the other side that you know, maybe they're just tired, you know, maybe they're taking a break because you know, you can't.
Be on all the time.
And you know, sometimes I think if we were booked, you know, every single weekend of the month, something's.
Got to give, you know.
I mean, I personally, when I come back in my next life, I don't want to keep answering questions like are you there?
Yes, I'm here, you know, So.
I think they just kind of go they just take the day.
Off, and I don't blame them.
I would too, and that's what we tell people. You know, we cannot guarantee that you're going to get something every time you come, because obviously they have minds of their own and they're going to do what they're going to do, So it can be difficult.
Yeah, that actually brings up a good point. We do frequently. It's telpe people to kind of think outside the box when you're approaching these spirits, just because in places that are investigated, they do get a lot of the same question over and over again, and they get asked to do the same thing over and over again, and then they kind of become like they're performing for you.
At that point, I think they're desensitized.
Yes, so you have to kind of think what can I give them and like what can I how can I make this a rewarding experience for them? Like what can I do here that will have them want to interact not just because I'm asking them to, but because I'm offering them something. You know, May that be information, may that be assistance in some way. And so especially when you're dealing with a location filled with intelligent haunts like yours, you really do have to bring your a.
Game, Yes, you do.
You do. And I think they recognize that too, which you know, definitely more more disappoint that's being here. You know, I'm here Tuesday through Saturday, so you know, when I'm here during the day, it's it's the museums. It's our job. We do tours. Some people will come for a tour and they'll ask questions and then you know, we're like, oh, okay, you want to know about this part of our business.
But you know, I'm always asking, you know, when I go into the building morning, Sybil, how are you you know we're going to be doing this today.
We're going to do this today.
And at the end of the day, I'm always like, good afternoon, you know, have a great day. We'll see in the morning.
Like we're leaving for the day.
So we're very respectful in Sibyl's home because it's.
Her home, right and you're so you're keeping her kind of, you know, abreast of what's going on, which I think is important too. It's kind of like when you go like not like it's going to domeor like going to the doc office, when they're explaining to you every single thing they're doing to make you feel more comfortable. You know, obviously it's not to that extent, but it is this kind of like, you know, recognizing that you're in someone's space and kind of giving them a step by step
of like what your plans are. Plus I feel like Sybil probably really likes you at this point. She seems to, so she probably wants to know what's going on in your life.
Oh definitely.
And there's there's times, you know, when we send the girls down to clean the store, and I'm always like, you know, when we go behind the counter, when you're by the safe, just let William know we're just cleaning because we don't want them to be upset. And you know, he does get upset when we go back there, so you know, it's just kind of being respectful. And some people kind of give us the side eye, like what are you doing? But it's just part of what we do.
So do you think so you think he gets upset of people who are not employees or behind the counter.
Absolutely, yeah.
And so what happens is there activity that goes along with that.
Usually he like we had an incident where he was not happy with someone being back there and the glass that covers some of the counter got broken and it was because we had people back there. But when I've gone back there before, I've had my hair pulled, I've had like a little nudge to kind of get out of that area. So you know, we always let him know, hey, this is where I'm this is what I'm doing. I'm not anywhere near the safe you know, we're we're just here to clean.
And it seems to.
Well, that has to be a challenge. Yeah, that has to be a challenge too, because you know, you have people who want interactions so badly they might be tempted to go back there and agitate him. Yeah, there are people that you know, that's one of the things we
always say, please, you know, don't do that. Yeah, so, yes, you don't want you don't want activity to agitation, just you know, for the well being of the location and you who have to be there all the time, and as you know, with respect to the spirit as well. So I'm sure that's happened in the past though.
Yeah, And it's you know, it's difficult because you know, sometimes people watch certain shows and you know, and there's a little bit of you know, confrontation or you know, you know, please you better make a noise or we're going to do this, and we always try to make sure you know that. We're like, listen, we don't do that here. If you get something, that's great, and if you don't, that's okay too, But we certainly don't sit here and try to bring them out with you know, meanness.
You don't try not to be mean. But I and I think with the Phelps the store, definitely, with the upstairs residence, you see people change a little bit because they realize it is somebody home. Someone lived there from
eighteen sixty eight until nineteen seventy six. So I think that kind of changes the vibe when they come in there, because at first, you know, everybody's jaw drops like wow, this place is incredible, you know, and then they hear the history and it's like, whoa, this is even more incredible than I thought.
Yeah it is. It is truly a very special place, and I cannot wait to get back there and visit. And so now, if people want to come visit, or if they want to support the museum in any way, what do you recommend?
I would recommend that they go to our website, which is www. Historic Palmyra, NY dot com. We have all the information on there about our museums, our hours, we have our investigations on there. You know what to expect things like that. We also have a Facebook pie Start Palmyra, Palmyron, New York. So those are a couple avenues. They can always call me, they can you know, email aus. We're open for anything.
Yeah, Tracy's always there. She never leaves.
Right if I'm not here, I'm at the Fox property.
So it's you know.
That, I know, a whole other ball game. Absolutely so for people that don't know, Tracy's also the caretaker for the original Fox Sisters cabin, like the foundation of it, and so if you are not familiar with the Fox Sisters, go look that up right now. But that is probably one of the most, if not the most important piece of spiritualist history in America, and Tracy looks after it, which I love. We actually filmed there briefly, but again, just too many hauntings at the Palmyra Museum. We didn't
have time to show it. It's too many ghosts.
Yeah, you have to come back for a whole week.
Seriously, I could an. I wanna thank you so much for fitting me into your schedule and you're busy and it's lovely to hear your voice, and I really do hope to get back there very study. So thank you, Tracy. To this day, the Palmira Museum stands as one of the top most haunted places I've ever experienced. From the second I set inside to the second I departed, the
activity and feeling of other worldly presences was constant. I don't necessarily think it's the breeding children, or not entirely them. There is something about that place, the items inside, the history of each space that has bred the perfect haunt. Not scary, not desperate, but very very active. I highly recommend you make the trip. And if you do, tell Tracy and the staff, I said, Hils, let them know it will not be long before I am back. I
am Amy Bruney and this was Haunted Road. Haunted Road is hosted and written by me Amy Bruney, with additional research by Taylor Haggerdorn and Cassandra de Alba. This show is edited and produced by rema El Kali, with supervising producer Josh Thain and executive producers Aaron Manke, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. Haunted Road is a production of iHeartRadio
and Grim and Mild from Aaron Manke. Learn more about this show over at Grimanmild dot com, and for more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.