Is Mark Sokel. He is the founder of both Falcon Space as well as APEC, and today we're going to be talking about some of his scientific work and some advanced propulsion. Hey, Mark, welcome, Welcome to the podcast here today. How are you doing. I'm doing okay, Thanks for having me. Yeah, So I think just let's get right into it. First thing I want to ask about is you know both Falcon Space as well as APEC. Can you give us a little bit of history around your experience as
an engineer and why you started these organizations and what their purpose is. Okay, So, for those who know, APEX is the Alternative Propulsion Engineering Conference, not to be confused with the Age of Pacific Economic Confederation or whatever that
is, which is usually what you find online. So I have a background in your self engineering, started a business refurbishing hybrid batteries, and then through various research, you know, going diving down the rabbit hole, I figured out that UFOs are real extraterrestrials are you know, visiting the planet Earth, And that there's this technology cover up that's been going on that coupled and coincided with the twenty seventeen New York Times article about a tip that showed that the
Pentagon was looking into this. So although there has been you know, people who've looked into this research before and we're you know, we're quieted out, somehow they were either brought out or put six feet under. I felt that because of the New York Times article and the Pentagon looking into this again, it's probably a safe time to give this another shot. So I started the
research on my own, just in my spare time. It became an interest, then it became a hobby, and it went from becoming a hobby to becoming a passion, and then from becoming an obsession a passion, it went to becoming an obsession. But I was literally obsessing over this, trying to figure out how these craft work, How am I going to do this? You know what parts do we need? You know what experiments can we run.
I started meeting up with other people who had similar interests. There are other people out there, and from there it actually we found people with money who were willing to fund us. So I was able to close down my battery business and I saw full time to this, and coincidentally, like the pandemic came around and that the premiere anti Gravity conference at the time would have met in person in SD's Park, Colorado, but because of the pandemic,
it didn't and there was a Zoom conference call instead, and we were supposed to speak over there to show off what we were working on. That didn't end up working out, and I realized that, you know, this conference went over so well on Zoom, I might as well just do one myself on Zoom's just an email list in a Zoom account. There's really nothing to it. And we got in touch with Tim Ventura, American Anti Gravity because he was the only person I could find online who's actually ever, you know,
managed or organized people who would speak on this topic before. And his advice was just to go mellow, keep things easy. It's like hurting cats. You got to get everyone excited about it first and they'll come to you. Open the tuna and I'll come. So that's kind of what we did. And it's been about three years. There's been I don't know, like
sixty or so conferences already with over one hundred and fifty speakers. We pretty much got almost every speaker that was willing to talk about this topic related to the field on Apeck. At some point or another. Yeah, like, if anyone's in the sield and hasn't heard of Apek, then they must be living under a rock at this point. So let me ask you know, you dug right into the UFO thing, And that was one of my questions I was going to ask you, which is, what are your thoughts on
UFOs in general? Can you elaborate? I mean I also came to a conclusion when the New York Times article came out twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, that there's something going on here and started to look into it. What was your kind of awakening? What are your opinions on the UFOs? And you know, you said that there's a cover up. What convinces you if there being a cover up? How deep you think it goes? And I guess maybe on a broad level, like what does disclosure mean to you? Okay,
well, I want to take this in a different direction. There's the the Fermi paradox, right of how likely is it that we're going to come in contact with aliens. There's a bunch of different parts to the equation how big the universes, stars, planets, liverball, But there's one thing that's missing that is binary, and that is, is FTL faster than light travel possible? Is there some way of tricking known science and allowing for faster than
light travel? We know that certain particles travel faster than light, and the answer to this really is a binary question. It could either be yes or
it could either be no. There's no middle ground here. If FTL travel is possible, that means that Earth has probably been already visited by extraterrestrials, It's probably been terraforms by extraterrestrials, and we are probably there progeny in some form of another, which most religions today say something like that that you know, we're the sentence of these gods or whatnot, beings that came from the
heavens. But if it's the other way around it, if it's not possible to have faster than light travel, than the universe is a very lonely place. Probably we're not going to really get very far. I mean, Mars is attainable, but we're not going to really get much farther than that. So it's really answering that one binary question, is faster than light travel possible? That I think is the key. It's the technology that's the key.
They're not hiding U Frosen aliens because they don't want us get because they're afraid, you know, that we're going to quit our nine to five and go crazy that there's gray aliens out there. They're afraid of the technology that's out there that will make the F thirty five, you know, phantom jet obsolete. That's what they're worried about. And how deep does the cover up go? Okay, First of all, it's not really a government cover up as
far as I can tell. It's more of a military industrial complex. So think back to nineteen forty seven Roswell. Something definitely happened there, and it was during the Cold War, the beginnings of the Cold War. Aliens literally landed live aliens landed crashed right outside the only nuclear base on the planet. Radar advanced radar was involved in taking down that craft, and we'll get to that in a bit. And here we had this technology and the military did
the you know what seemed logical at the time. The first they wanted to disclose it to the world, and then they realized, no, we've got to keep this secret, and they handed it off to the military industrial complex. The smartest minds of the time, people who were most advanced in the in the relative technologies in order to figure out how to reverse engineer it.
And the rumor mill has it that in about summer of nineteen fifty four, so that's about seven years later, they actually achieved the first ARV or alien reproduction vehicle. That's a craft that can you achieve some sort of anti gravity effect pountless propulsion system using only man made materials. And since then there's been
more and more of them. There has been visits, I believe of extrarestrials, but a lot of the craft we're seeing in the sky today are terrestrially made, so in terms of faster than light, in terms of faster than like communication or travel. So do you believe that it is possible then? I mean you said it is a yes or no? Are you still trying to determine or do you think that all this kind of lines up to that
being the case? I believe that I believe that it is possible. Yes, And how would you what would your how do you think it is possible? If you had to theorize or from any potential experiments that you've done, what would you say is the mechanism by which it occurs, because obviously then we have to be able to bend the laws of physics at least. Right, Well, there's lots of things in physics that we don't fully understand, and I think understanding them would show you how it's possible. One thing,
for instance, inertial mass. Where does inertial mass come from? Some may say the Higgs field, But what does that mean? I'm not really sure. And that's just that's just saying, you know, oh, it comes from there, But what is that that you're talking about? You know, it doesn't really answer the question. But mass is this mysterious force that constrains
matter into a linear path. And somebody's trying to call me. And if we can't affect the effects of inertial mass on an object, or reduce the amount of inertial mass in the object, we can essentially go faster than light because equals mc square does. The reason why we can't go faster than light because as as you go faster, the mass will increase by the square you know of the speed of light. But if the mass is zero, no matter how many times you multiply or a square zero, it will it will
always be zero. So what are your thoughts on like the Alkaberry drive. Do you think that that could be a mechanism by which we accomplish it and essentially warping the fabric space I'm around an object. Yeah, that's another thing. That's the warp drive concept is also another way we can do it. So, Uh, the speed of light is derived from the permittivity and permeability of space time. It's called new and epsilon or the the amount of electric
and magnetic push and pull bounce back that empty space has. UH. Materials such as magnets of them holding over here, iron or plastics or you know, different dielectrics that you put inside capacitors can have very high values of you know, hivity and permanentability. Space time, though, has a value of
permitivity and permanbility. It's not zero, which is which is insane when you think about it, because the fact that it has some permittivity and permanability to it, it has these electro magnetic properties to it, means that that that is literally what is contributing to the speed of light as we see it.
If you were to pile up energy in a spot in space and like build a standing wave and build up an RF standing wave for instance, in the near field around then antenna, the speed of light will actually change because the permititivity and permanbility space time has changed over there as well. And using this mechanism we can push or pull off of space time and move things, move,
move objects around, move the craft around. And it's possible that in such a in such a mechanism, the craft would not be limited to the speed of light like normal space times. So so then just in terms of you know, you said the military industrial complex you believe has this and the ra aswell, you know, happened and they may have gotten that technology. Also said that you think that a lot of the you know, objects UFOs
that were seen out there potentially man made. So what's your thought on like the military industrial complex in terms of how far advanced they've gotten, you know, because we don't see this from the public perspective, right, do you think that there is some kind of like shadow government or breakaway civilization at play? What's your theory there? Yeah, I mean this is all stuff that's
speculative. You can learn all you want about this by going to websites like Gaya or listened to the twenty and backers and such by I would assume that there's some sort of breakaway civilization. Shadow government would be like the person that's three or four heads down from the top, that has a permanent position. That's who they tend to be. So we're not talking. We're not talking
to Joe Bidens or Donald Trump's in the world talking. You know, the people that you haven't heard of usually are the ones that are actually in charge of this secret, and it's it's locked up in the Department of Energies classification system. There are classifications in the Department of Energy's top secret, uh, you know, secrecy department that the president doesn't have access to. And by by hiding stuff like that, they are in government, they're able to keep
it secret. But they don't have to keep most of the secret secret in government because it's not really government secret. It really comes down to Lockheed Martin, Scongpourt, it's Northrop Grumman some parts of going that are you know, privy or working on these projects together. So how do you think they keep it secret? Then? I mean, you know, is it just because private organizations you can't access it like or why do you think there's not more
people that kind of speak out. You know, you've talked to a lot of these engineers and your APEC conference, right have you. Yeah, there are many that you speak out. The thing is when they speak out, the stuff they say so crazy, nobody takes them seriously. But they do speak out, and they have specked out and they they've even written books about it, but nobody reads the books and nobody seems to care. So yes
that they have been. One great example of this was like the second in command Pentagon wrote a book day after Roswell, Philip J. Corso wrote this book, and that was one of the books that convinced me, hands down, this stuff is real. This guy's credentials were, you know, second to none. He described how he took parts of the craft and handed it over to Bell Labs and you know other companies that went on to develop great things with it here in the US. So you know, from my perspective,
that was that was case closed. The UFOs are real aliens crashed we have and we have we're back engineering their technology, and you know that that's the world that we live in right now. The thing is that amazing claims, you know, big claims require lots of evidence, and the people coming forward other than their than their eyewitness testimony, you usually don't have that much evidence. They don't have anything hard in hand, and if they do,
get stolen from them very quickly taken away. So you have your dilemma. Yet you have on one side of populace that doesn't really want to believe. They don't really want to look into this. They rather believe in the Lockness Monster, and they would believe that aliens have been visiting us for the past, you know, ten thousand years. You know, it's funny you go
to Scotland. The t shirts they give out says I believe and shows a picture of the Lockdust Monster, whereas when you're in Roswald it says I want to believe. It should be the other way around, because in Scotland they want to believe. Everyone there knows that it's not that it's not real. Even the guy who bought a house on the side of the lake and has been watching it for thirty years. He admits it's not real. But UFOs are very much real. Yeah, so I guess the follow up there then,
logically is so, and I totally agree. My opinion is coincide with what you mentioned in terms of people just don't seem to really care. You know, they care more about what the Kardashians did last night than they care about advanced technology that would change at circumstances of millions of people. So how would you go about achieving disclosure? Like, how let's assume it's real that there are beings visiting us and there's this advanced technology. How do we get
disclosure out of that? Like, what's the path forward in your mind? So the equipment behind me, we have signal generators, are amplifiers, spectrum antalyzers, power supplies. This amplifier over here came from Sandia National Labs, where a lot of this research was actually done in the first place. This lab over here is researching the fundamental technologies that we believe are behind these phenomenon.
By doing this research, by moving it forward, by getting larger and larger results, and actually starting to build prototypes and craft, I believe we can push the needle far enough that people will start to take notice. And whether the scientific community all comes on board at once, I don't care. All that matters is that we get the technology built and we you know, bring it forward to the world, and once that happens, the naysayers will
have nothing left to say. Yeah, Now, how it feels like though that we had a big disadvantage, right, Like if this technology is being produced by Lockheed Martin and North of grumm In, Boeing, Big low airspace, et cetera, They've got tens of billions of dollars, right versus you
know, just like having a small lab. Right. So how And this is something I've been wondering myself, is like, so, what kind of tests can we get that are going to be equivalent enough, large scale enough to be able to prove that we can you know, float crafts, because I've seen stuff like the Towns of Brown experiments right where we can prove that there's alternative mechanisms of levitation propulsion. But like, how do you get something
big enough to really track the attention of the media wherever else? What's your opinion. I'm not interested in attracting the attention of the media anymore. It's not really about that. We're trying to interract investors and more importantly, very smart people who want to join our cause, people who can actually contribute. RF engineers various smart people who can actually help out with the experiments and the engineering side of things, and scientists that that are open enough to looking into
these possibilities. Those are the people that actually matter. Whether or not we make it to the front page of some big tabloid newspaper doesn't really matter to us. What matters more is the technology, what happens in the lab, what we can build, what we can test, what we can prove,
and what we can improve on MHM. And so you know, in terms of those people, my what I've kind of heard at least is a lot of these people get sucked up by the government, by the d O D and and and forced into kind of working for them or enticed into it, incentivized. What's your opinion on that? And then like, how do you attract those people? Go ahead, I've seen really, yeah, I've seen
it. People. What do you think makes that happen? What do you think somebody has to do in order to get a knock on their door? Uh, They're they're keeping tabs and they're they just I'm not really sure, but I think they're keeping tabs on on on the on our study groups and trying to cherry pick out who would be useful for their for their projects. They do have much larger budget than we do by many, many orders of magnitude, and I agree with you with you there, But we are doing
open, open source research over here. We're showing everyone what we got and telling everyone about it. And I think that's that's important. That's an important part. That's something that they don't do now, just changing gears a little bit. Going to APEX. You know, what are some of the most compelling presentations that you've seen, you know, regarding the present everything that's been shown, there there any offhand that you think that you want the world to
know about. So on the theoretical side, David Chester's presentation was pretty good. He put together and analysis many different models. On the hardware side, we've seen presentations from UH Drew Ergrimarra from Drew Agamera and the other guy, Charlie Bueller from down a NASA UH Kennedy's base, and they're working on basically
gravity capacitor kind of thing and they're they're seeing pretty pretty promising results. We've also seen presentation by David Perez from Quantum Military Dynamics while working with closely who achieved several kilo of thrust using some sort of warp drive devices in fractal antennas and ham radio equipment. And there's also been presentations by Bryan Sinclair who who showed pretty definitively some sort of thrust being created from a inertial propulsion device.
Or we call the mass throwers because they're pretty much hammers that fly around in funny orientations and smash into things and devices kind of want wants to destroy itself. It's at the limits of engineering, but moving mass around you can actually convert angularnmentum to linear motion just by doing that. And then you know, I've given some presentations as well showing off some of the results that we got
over here with our experiment. And our experiment, for those who don't know, is based off of this paper Anti Gravity with present Technology from Frederick Alsophon, so we called the Alsphon experiment and in it this he published this in nineteen eighty one after he got a provisional patent that was a patent pending on his theory. And basically what it describes is a method of orienting sub atomic particle spins. And there's many different ways why you can think this would actually
affect matter. But the bottom line is matter or mass comes from the inertial mass comes from the core of the atom, So doing something that affects the core of the atom is the rational place to start. You're looking for ways to affect mass itself because that's where it comes from. Go to the source. And one of the things that you can do to matter is called dynamic
nuclear orientation. You can orient the subatomic particle spins. Now The only known use for dynamic nucle orientation nowadays, here's the book on it by CD Jeffries, is to increase the nuclear magnetic resonance imaging like an MRI machine. The signals the noise ratio. You're able to increase it about one thousandfold when you
have this dynamic uclorientation going on as well. And we believe that when dynamic nuclear orientation is achieved in a sample or in a craft, let's say, then the mass itself will become weightless along the plane and axis of spin. And we've actually recently proven that that there is there is a correlation with eight consecutive tests all showing the same data point weight loss at the same point in
a magnetic field sweep It basically involves two components. You have to have a homogeneous magnetic field, and then you have to have frequencies that go up and down perpendicular to that magnetic field. A slight change that will energize the more frequency of the valence electrons, which is dependent on the strength of the magnetic field. That's why we're doing sweeps in order to find the exact sweet spot.
But by pulsing energy into the valence electrons that they're able to transfer their orientation energy to the core of the atom and build up orientation through a pulse process over time. But that's exactly what we've seen with this experiment over here. We're trying to improve on that and build up more and more orientation. Also, I recently found out about an effect called the Overhauser your field in interaction effect. Basically, when you build up this dynamic nuclear orientation, the
the orientation is contagious, kind of like an electromagnet or a magnet. Let's say this is a magnet. They feel sort of like go around like a torid like that in all directions. The same thing happens with nuclear orientation in the core of the atom. It objects that are nearby will be imparted with a similar effect, which explains why when flying saucers take off, they sometimes bring up a pug of grass or dirt with them, and it's usually roughly
the shape of the craft or slightly smaller. That's because that's the shape of the field that is being oriented. That's another reason why these craft don't like to land, because when they land, then they have to orient the ground with it too, because the effect you know, goes, you know, permeates everything around it. So is that like a coherence effect or a self organizing effect, then would you how do you find not self organizing? It's
a coherence effective. Yeah, just like coherent light is a laser and you're able to do amazing things with laser. Incoherent light, it's just, you know, it's just light, but when you are able to concentrate it, you're able to to amazing You're able to cut metal with lasers. We're just a few watts of it too. And whereas a light bulb that has the same amount of lots you can buy them for like five dollars, you know, one hundred what light bulb can't do anything safe same amount of heat.
It's all about concentrating and creating coherent states, or we're basically creating coherent matter. And the idea behind it really stems from where's inertial mass come from. So we know that it comes from the core of the atom. But in the core of the atom you have protons and neutrons, these subatomic particles which are essentially electromagnetic energy spun in on itself. So you have a bunch of
these spinning gyroscopes, let's call them. Okay, So let's say this is the axis of the gyroscope and it's and it's energy rotating around very quickly, So this is the magnetic moment of it. The magnetic moment or the axis of rotation is rotating itself as well. That would be called a procession. But there's many processions going on simultaneously. So while it's doing this, it's also wobbling in this direction, and it's also wabbling in that direction. It's
wobbling in many different directions simultaneously. So imagine if you had a gyroscope in your hand that was doing all these rotations simultaneously, and then you moved it through space. What would happen? Well, if you had a gyroscope like that in your hand that was doing all those spins at once. What would end up happening is the wobbles, the incoherent wobbles of the uh of that
gyroscope would change by moving it through space. And so when you think of a piece of matter, let's say a baseball or something like that, you throw it through space, what you're actually doing is imparting energy, or changing the subatomic wobbles of all the particles that make up that baseball. That is where the inertial mass is actually changing. That's where the energy, the momentum
is being stored. It's a change in sub atomic particle wobbles. Now, the way to get rid of that is by orienting them, because when you orient them, just like a regular gyroscope, it's free to move along its plane and axis of rotation without any restriction. But as soon as you try to change that axis, that's when it in parts a ninety degree and if you try to turn this way, it'll it'll want to go that way a
bit. And that's what we see with flying saucers. They're able to go and do ninety degree turns at ten thousand miles an hour, go straight up fly off at insane seats. But one thing they can't do is a barrel role. They cannot twist over quickly. In fact, many of the sightings that we see of these flying saucers are of them hovering in place, slowly
changing their orientation because they need actual thrust to do that. Because the craft, let's say weighs they go twenty tons, it needs enough thrust in order to reorient itself. But it doesn't have many thrusters on board because it works using this mass reduction print. Once it's in its new orientation, shoots off along the axis, so all along the plane sounds like Bobbles are in terms of what he said about the objects like turning up on their side or whatever.
What are your thoughts on him? So my thoughts on bobblesar. Let's say we had a time machine and we were to take a car back to the eighteenth century, right, what if we took back in Austin Martin, you know, f one carbon fiber vehicle. Right, We took it back then, and we handed it over to the scientists of the time, and they spent their entire career trying to figure out carbon fiber that would have been a complete waste of time because the secret is in the engine, right,
the secret is in the is in the combustion chamber. So I think Bobblesar may very well be telling the truth on everything that he said. That's possible. There's some people out there that, you know, think that he was lying and attend to but let's claim he was saying that you're on everything. I believe he was looking at h CLARINEF one. He was not looking He was not looking at a handat chord. He wasn't looking at you know what
is necessary. He wasn't looking at the Model T. Definitely not the Model T he was looking at. He was looking at something super advanced, something so advanced in fact, that we have nothing, you know, to work on here and what ends up happening. You know. The reason why they allowed him to go forward with all this stuff is that one to fifteen is not available online on eBay or Amazon, and everyone knows that we don't have we haven't synthesized it yet in a stable form. It might be synthesizable,
who knows, but the bottom line is it's not available. So anyone who has an inkling to go into this type of research. What they end up doing is looking at, you know, for element one fifteen. They see it's not available, and they go off to becoming an accountant. And there's very few people that actually go on and become RF engineers. Actually met one recently that that went in that direction. But one thing that Babozar said that
was very telling. This is one of the few things that he mentioned that was of his own intuition. It wasn't stuck into his head. He said, when he was inside the craft, he saw these wave guide looking things like tune tubes that were transferring this gravity a wave or B wave or whatever. And he said they looked like microwave wave guides, which is very interesting
because a lot of stuff behind me is microwave wave guides. That's how you that's how you orient that little more procession, that's how you create work fields. If you're going to change the permittivity and permitbility is based time, you do it either with microwaves, you can do with larger waves, but it's gotta be done with RF. And he had the intuition to tell that's what it looked like to him, and that's probably what it looked like. Because
that's what it was. That's a pretty interesting in terms of the connections there between. You know, I always find out when people present story it's listening to stories one thing, but you know, we're never probably going to get the crafts wheeled out in front of us or the bodies. So it's like, what does it align with actual science, physics, engineering and what it does? And I find it to be pretty compelling. Now a second ago,
and I just I want to clarify for myself in the audience. When you talk about orienting the spins, are you talking about like the spins that we would talk about in terms of bosons versus fermions with integer spins and half spins, or is this actually like physically orienting the spins to be in some kind of alignment here with atoms. That's a good question. I'm not I'm not certain that I definitely know the answer or even have the equipment to know
the answer. But the thing. The thing is that with sub atomic particles spins, when we talk about spin, we're only talking about it in the sense that we're able to measure it. Now, the way to measure dynamic iglorentation is by looking at your NMR signal to noise ratio and as it as it increases, you know that the dynamic inclorientation has you know, been you know, performed to x degree. But actually knowing what's going on in the
core of the atom, it's happening so quickly. There's no equipment you know around today that can that can even read that kind of stuff to know for certain what exactly is happening. When we talk about the spin of a of an atom, what we're actually talking about is its imbalance, the imbalance of its electron band. So think think of an atom as like a solar system, where of the mass of the sole systems in the Sun, that's the
core and then there's the planets going around. When they're talking about bismuth having eight to eight half spin or whatever, what they're talking about is you know, Mercury, Venus, Earth, all these planets, they're all out of balance and they're going wobbling like this and like that. That's what it's talking about. It's not talking about what's happening in the core of the atom.
Because the way we interact with bismuth, the way we interact with every piece of matter, is not by the core that the core is what gives its mass, but the electron bands around it is what gives its properties. The reason why iron conducts magnetism is because of the valence bands the number of shells of electrons that are around it, and that goes for every single you know, molecule compound out there. We're into reacting with the electrons. We're never
really interacting with the core other than the mass itself. That is the only thing that really you know, comes from the core. So if you want to get to the core and we're doing something that we call orientation by what we think is actually transferring spin orientation at the core, there's no direct way to measure it because there's no there's no equipment out there that can do that.
There's nothing that can measure stuff that's beIN that fast. Yeah, so I guess it's somewhat theoretical then, but you're actually looking at observable effects right to try to determine what's happening. Then, I think is the takeaway which leads me to my next question, which is what do you think the relationship is between anti gravity and superconductivity in general? Do you think that superconductivity is something that's required in order to achieve these coherent states, or do you think
it's a byproduct or how do you look at that? So superconductivity might be connected. We do have a lot of superconnectors here at the lab. We've tried rotating them, we tried impulsing a thousand million vaults through them through vacuums and different gas chambers and all that. But we need to understand what is a superconductor is essentially a material that has no electrical resistance. But the electrons aren't the problem. The problem is the protons and the neutrons. The protons
and the neutrons are where the mass is. If we're trying to affect the mass we need, we need to play around with the protons and the neutrons. Now we can use the electrons as a stepping ladder to get there. But having zero resistance in a ceramic puck of you know, ybc O superconducting at liquid nitrogen temperature, it looks pretty cool. It makes really nice you
know camera candy. It looks really nice to see it, you know, with all the gases and everything, But it's not really the anti gravity and I would not want to, you know, spacecraft that were white on pouring liquid nitrogen into the sidewalls in order to keep those super conductors chilled. Yeah, I think that my follow up there is more of I guess what I was thinking is when you were talking about trying to get to the core, right, I thought, well, if we strip away the electrons, is
that a way where you can get to the core. And I'm not, you know, nearly at the level you are with engineering, but you know, And this kind of goes into the next thing I was going to mention is that Lockeed Martin has a patent for a coherent matter wave being. So I'm just trying to wonder if there's some kind of connection there or something. I don't know, what are your thoughts in general on I would coherent I like to see that path. I haven't heard of it, but yeah,
you send that over to me. But yeah, coherent matterwave being. That sounds like something that I'm working on right now. Yeah, I love all these little connections between all this stuff. But yeah, I'll definitely send that
over to you. We found some pretty crazy locked Martin pattents and it kind of goes to all the stuff we were talking about early here in the beginning of the podcast here where we talk about how they keep this stuff hidden and in many cases, I think it's just out there in plain sight, like you were saying too, where you got to look for it? Is this patent recent? No, it's from twenty thirteen, I believe, if I
recall correctly. And that's the thing too, some of this stuff's been out there decade, you know, or more right, and it's like, wow, well, yeah, the truth is like you're really you could throw it out there, but things nobody's going to look for it. You need to have somebody who's actually gonna, you know, verify whether this stuff is real because there's a lot of patents out there that don't work. There's a lot of free energy and magnet motor concepts, you know, one battery charges another
battery increase free energy. We've for all that crap, you know, for for decades now, and people had been scammed that of millions of dollars, uh, you know, trying to invest in such stuff. But just because you have a patent doesn't mean it's real. And that's one of the other ways that they've been covering this stuff up by loading the internet and uh, the mind space of humanity with with just junk. So a lot of these
patents aren't real. I'm very interested in a coherent matter weight beam because I believe that's real. I have reason to believe that coherent matter is the key to anti gravity. Mm hmm yeah. So and then you know, for me, it's like, I agree with you. I don't know where the line is from talking to Salvage or Pious, which I may ask you about here in a second, that you know, I think that there is certainly the yes, yes, yeah, oh yeah, you got there, you
go, the hybrid crack. We're actually working on that, uh, that experiment as well. That's another version. Yes, yes, we have a spin weight over here, and and we have the microwave energy and the high voltage. Yet we're working on the experiment. That's awesome, Yes, because I think that some of the patents, for sure, it's like, okay, I don't know if I trust it out there. From talking to salvag or Pious, there is certainly a level where you have to prove conceptually whether
or not it can work to the patent office. And I think that in order to even get that pattern that you were just looking at their proved he had to get some like that the Navy. I don't know what the exact position the person was, but come in and step in and say, oh, no, this is actually possible. We can break the swinger limit,
et cetera. So when I see stuff that is like tied to the Navy or the government, or stuff that's tied like lockeed Martin, which are these huge defense contractors, those are the ones where I'm like, yeah, these are the ones that I think that, Okay, we should probably be taking
a hard look at this, right because these people don't mess around. Yeah, the inertial mass reduction device as well, and so you might be interested in this as well then, because this is similar to what I was mentioned about the super conductivity, is that Salvator Pious believes that we don't need meta materials in order to create room temperature superconnectivity that can be induced potentially through this
high frequency gravitational vibration effect or potentially spin effect. And he said that the vibration worked better because spin would cause the I'm gonna say this, or maybe the atoms or something to rip apart or to be too much some kind of force there. In general, So what are your thoughts on any of that, or what's your thoughts on salvad or Pious and the patents in general? My thoughts on solidor Pious is that he recently woke up and is enjoying the
limelight. He wrote his paper on the super course, and he's very excited to talk to anyone that will give him lots of attention. In terms of his work, He's put out lots of papers, including this one, and about different experiments that we can try. There's this is basically instead of magnetic field and microwaves, it's high voltage static field and microwaves. And here he predicts that inertial mass modification is possible via that method as well. And if
that's true, I'm gained or we're gonna try it out. Cool. And so here's another poll up question on that is, what do you think his inspiration was to write those patents? I think you can get what I'm getting at here, right, because he works with the Navy. You think that they he was staring at crafts when he thought of those papers, or do you think he just came up with that pure inspirationally with no motivation? What are your thoughts I think you got some motivation for it somehow, but I
don't know. I can't really answer that now. I kind of want to change gears a little bit. Now, going back to the whole UFO phenomenon, cover up, et cetera, do you have any advice for Congress and the lawmakers or what is your opinion perhaps on the UAP congressional hearings that happened last summer. Do you think that's a useful, good use of time. Were you satisfied with the results, and what would you do potentially to make it better if not? Well, I was at one of those hearings in
person. I think those were necessary. They're seventy years overdue. I think the Schumer Grounds Amendment to the Defense Authorization Act had its teeth cut out of it. They should have had imminent domain, you know, the right to subpoena and the right to a disclosure panel, and all of that was removed by the powers that be. And I would like to see another another amendment coming in this year that will give those teeth back and we'd have real disclosure
of the technology and what's been happening. I think people are distracted by so much other stuff. Going on. Just we've got wars going all over all all over the world. We have somebody running for president who you know, is being taken off the ballot in some states, and then the current president can't remember what he had for breakfast. So people are you know, very distracted from the stuff that are actually more mundane and more day to day.
But this story is the biggest it's the biggest story, not in our lifetime. It's the biggest story in a civilization. And the research that we're doing here at Falcon Space is not just you know, once in a lifetime opportunity. This is a once in a civilization opportunity. You don't really get chances to you know, attempt heavier than air research ever again because once the White Brothers achieved that, it was done, you know, and the same is
going to go for anti gravity, at least in the open source. So do you think there should be more uIP hearings and if so, how do you like them to be framed? Yeah? I would I would like it to be more up hearings UFO hearings. I would like you know, the government to do a deep dive into it. They're like timber sheet to put together another another law or something or whatever they got to do and try to get this this subject to the forefront and you know, try to push something
through Congress that actually has teeth on it. So do you think that part of the government then is you know, I think you mentioned the believe there's a cover up. So how do you view the landscape of the government that is covering it up? You think they're all covering it up? Do you think there's some people that want it out? What's you Have you ever thought
about how that might be playing out behind the scenes. Yeah, there's a lot of government officials that wanted out, especially the newcomers, people that were recently elected, people that were been in government for twenty thirty years. They like the status quo. The status quo is what pays their mortgage. So they're not going to be your friends. The people that are friends of disclosure
are the ones that are new to Congress, new to this story. They don't they're not saddled by any of the guilt or any of the blame of what's been happening back there, And those are the kind of people that are going to be your friends. You know, the friends with disclosure most probably. What about in terms of the engineers and the scientists, what do you think their views are. They're waiting for more data, they're you know, some of them are waiting for more data. Some of them are are ready
to start right away. But for the most part, I think when we get to the threshold of proving that this stuff is real, there's going to be an avalanche of research going into this and that that's going to make the equipment that it's associated with it very difficult to find, and it's going to probably the the industry as a whole, I believe, will become larger than GDP of the United States within within a like a decade or two, because
it will take over so many different industries. We're talking about shipping, airplanes, uh, space travel. It will it will change the world as we know it. Yeah, what about stuff like micro chips and and some and uh, semiconductors and stuff like that. You think that that we can change a lot by this as well, or maybe already has been. No, I'm not really sure about that. I mean, it's possible that that lacked Martin patent that you talked about might be able to, you know, push
lithography down to the one nanometer range or something like that. But it's possible. You know that this stuff is, it is much more more in its infancy than microchips are. Microchips are technology that we recognize the potential of and we ran with it, and look where we've come. Like we went from discovering it. What was it forty years ago that the semiconductor was discovered. It wasn't that long ago that was discovered, And now we're making semiconductors that
are two or three nanometers across. There are just a few atoms, that's how small they are. And it's really we're creating artificial intelligence using this technologies and seeing how far we've come. So the technology behind me, the equipment behind me is like this stuff is from the this stuff is from the seventies, from the eighties, this is old equipment. I'm sure with modern equipment, with modern technology, you'll be able to push the umbrella of what can
be achieved a lot farther than anything I can do here. Yeah, So another thing I want to ask you about is the scientist that are not the ones that are potentially you know, working with the DoD and what have you. What I call maybe the influencer scientists are out there. Well, what is your opinion on the public, mainstream academia science. Are you talking about celebrity scientists like Neil de grasse Tyson in general? Yeah? Or I think
that I watched the video where you were talking to Lawrence Krause. I believe as well, you know, and I I don't equate Mitchew Kaku with them, but I think that these are all scientists that show up on a lot of TV shows right out there. What is your opinion on all them? Okay, so my pints on my opinion on Lawrence Krause when I got there to ask him a question, it really was what I intended to ask him was how big is the rock that he lives under? And does he ever
come out to breathe? Because he is adamant one hundred positive, which doesn't exist in science, that UFOs are not real, while the government just had disclosure hearings saying they definitely are real. We have we have live and dead
bodies, and we have ten craft at work. So this guy is completely off of his rocker now, which led me to the next thing that I was thinking is like, there's there's either something mentally wrong with him, which I don't think so, because he seems to be pretty intelligent or there's a
reason why he's doing that. And the only thing I can think of is that he is getting He's on this stage to present the other side of the topic, like Nick Pope was there to say, Yeah, UFOs are real, let's you know, let's discuss it, and Ethan Krause is there to say the opposite. So they had to you know, search New York City and find somebody who would take on that opinion. And Ethan Krause, you know, was available that evening, and you know he wanted the paycheck.
So in my opinion, Ethan Kraus is actually a debunker grifter. He's trying to make money by debunking. And there's a couple YouTube channels and people on Twitter that do similar things. It's much easier to debunk things than it is to prove things. You know. There's lots of people who you know, are debunking that the Earth is round, you know, and the flat earthers that keep on debunking stuff. It's it's a lot easy and people believe you
too. It's a lot easier to be believed when you say something is fake than when you say something is real, and you know, it all comes down to money and ego and dopamine. Just you know, the feeling that we get when we think that we're doing something good. Yeah, I've got to totally agree with you on the debunker thing. I think that there's two standards as well. Standard of proof is you have to build this mountain of evidence and proof, and even then people go, I still want to see
it, right. And then from the debunker standpoint, it's like I'm gonna poke one hole in your thing and I'm gonna speculate and then that's debunked. Right. Yeah, I don't know, Like, how do you how do you even combat that? Right? Do you have any thoughts on that? You wait for them to die? Uh? Science does not progress from people like that. Uh. Science progresses or every time somebody like that dies, and people like that usually don't change their mind, you know, even when
they're presented with the evidence to their face. I actually read one UFO case that was pretty sad. There was a UFO flying alongside an airplane and everyone was looking out the window except for one, uh, one psychiatrist there who refused to look out the window because he doesn't believe in UFOs. Wow. Yeah, it was significant enough that they actually wrote it in a book, but that that just got me thinking that there's there's a mental component to this
as well. It's not just that they're not just craft, but they change people to their core when they see stuff like that, that they realize we're not the head honcho in the universe. You know, there's other life out there, and there's technology way beyond what we have, and we're not fully in control, and it has an effect on people. And some people just don't want to be affected. They want to continue. They're not a file. They want to be an accountant. They don't want to think about this
stuff. Yeah, I think I've seen it firsthand. I remember I was showing my parents, my dad specifically, a video that had some pretty anomalous stuff going on, and I watched his head jerk away like it was almost like a reaction. And that psychology thing that you just mentioned, that psych
a person who didn't want to look right. It almost reminded me of that, and it freaked me out a little bit as well, because it makes me think about the mood of the show Westworld where it's like it doesn't look like anything to me, where some people are like just blinded to some stuff like that. And I think that's a little bit scary because to your point,
I think it tells us. I'm curious as to your thoughts on this thought experiment or whatever from sociology, is that I think that a lot of people out there in general just they don't want stuff to be true, and if it can't, they can't deal with that concept at all. And then it's kind of a question of like how you know, it's not even a matter of disclosing that stuff's provable. It's like changing people's opinion to the nature
reality itself. Like people have to wake up to the fact that, like, if anti gravity is real, there's more to this reality than what we're perceiving. And when people wake up to that, then they'll all of a sudden see all the papers that are out there, right they prove it, and the scientific experiments and videos or whatever. What's your thoughts on that?
Yeah, Yeah, they they live in willful ignorance. A lot of people, A lot of people live live their life like that because you know, they have their nine to five, they have their ritual, they have their their morning cup of Joe and uh, they got to go on to work, and they they can't be distracted by any of this stuff because it's too
it's too fundamental to their being. It changes too much. Yes, they'll they'll have no problem being interested in uh uh Taylor Swift's latest song, or the you know, keeping up with the Kardashians all their drama because it fits in with their lifestyle, fits in what's with with it's already there. But when you start to tell them, hey, you know you're to send into an alien you know your your GNA's DNA has been uh manipulated and they're visiting
us and they got craft that can go faster than people light. That's kind of talk that just doesn't interest people, or rather just go home and watch Jeopardy. Yeah, on that same line. And I think this is one of the last questions I want to ask, though, is that have you run into people at least I feel like I have. I'm curious what your
interactions has been. I've run into people that, even in the UFO Believers sphere, when you start talking about faster and light travel, that they start to check out, you know, And that's what scared me is because I think that people have this perception out there that the people who are threatened are the religious people in general. But I find that it's not even necessarily people
that are orthodoxy religious. It's even people that are believe that aliens are visiting that go, oh, no, we can't have faster than the light travel. And I'm going, well, how do you think they're visiting us? Right? Like, I don't know, have you run into any of that? Yes, I have run into I've run into that many times. And how do we change that belief? I mean, how do we It just
feels like such a hurdle to get over. Right, just's proving it, yeah, just just just just building it that there's no other way to prove it. And sometimes even after you build it, they still wouldn't believe in it, even if they see it. Yeah. I think that's the part that's scary, right, is that I think we're now in a post truth world where even if the president comes out, even they wheel out a body, even if they wheel out a craft. They did. They wheeled out
bodies in Mexico. One of them had three eggs in its abdomen with a fetus inside the egg and the next thing you know on TikTok is somebody made a cake that looked similar to it, and then all of a sudden, everybody's in there going wait, wasn't that just a cake that we just saw? And you're like, Okay, it makes me wonder. You know, are we living in the movie Idiocracy or you know, yeah, it's really
scary. The world that we live in is really scary because anyone nowadays with these uh the AI tools can make fake images of anything, and it really but the biggest, the biggest, the value we can we can we can attain in this for all today is is truth because because there's so much there, there's still the potential to lie, and the potential to fake stuff is so big nowadays it's so easy to do that. So your reputation, keeping
your reputation, being reputable, being honest is is key to succeeding. If you're not honest, you're not you're not in align with the universe. You're not going to succeed. Good advice, Okay, Mark, Well, I think this is a good spot to wrap it up. So I was thinking, anything that you want to plug, if you want to plug your social
media, your companies, or any shot out anyway. Feel free, This is your moment, all right, Okay, So check out the website for a turn of propulsion that's Outpropulsion alt propulsion dot com and sign up for our conference. You can check out Falconspace at falconspace dot org. And until next time, lived long and prosper Thanks a lot mark, appreciate your time. Take care,