Welcome everybody to another episode of Hard Trews podcast. I'm your host, Ashton Forbes, and today I have a very special guest, doctor John Brandenburg. He's a plasma physicist. He's been well known in the UFO communities for his opinions and as physics and science around the potential nuking of Mars. Today we're going to talk about gem unification theory. We're gonna talk about quantum mechanics, plasma aliens, Mars everything. John Brandenburg, thank you very much for joining me today.
It's a great pleasure and honor to be on your show, ash to be talking to you.
Yeah, and let's just start right away. I want to dig into the secret science, government and stuff. Tell us a little bit about your background in terms of your connections to the government, any defense contractors or any contract work that you've been doing in your life.
Oh yes, well, I kind of became part of the defense research establishment back in when I was getting my PhD. I did it at Lawrence Littlemore National Lab. I had acute clearance. Then I went from there to another Lawrence little More Lab is a lab doing energy experiments and then also they designed hydrogen bombs on the other end of the lab, and I worked at both ends. Then I went to Sanda National Labs, another nuclear weapons lab,
and worked on directed energy weapons. There. I didn't work directly on nuclear weapons, but I picked up a lot of knowledge. They were kind of always trying to recruit me and get me interested in it, and so they told me a lot of stuff and which I had a clearance for years a time. Okay. Oh. I started there in nineteen seventy five and I finished my PhD in nineteen eighty one. Then I went to Sandia National Labs and worked there till about nineteen eighty five.
So you know we had directed energy weapons back in the eighties.
Oh, absolutely, absolutely, it was. It was a big program at Livermore and at San die.
Do you think they can shoot them off of satellites or what do you think the way? Do you think these were connected to these directed energy weapons?
The directed energy weapons, we worked with the electron beam weapons and we were focused on shooting downs basically just missiles. It was very it was very tactical. It was the idea of protecting ships, you know, like aircraft carriers from cruise missiles and electron beam hits. A lot harder than a laser. You hit something with a laser, most of the energy just bounces off and reflects, but the electron beam would go right through it. And so we hey
and I thought I did a really good job. I saved the project at San die But the politics was such that I violated procedures when I saved the project by contradicting one of my management and so my reward was basically, they said, we don't want you to work here anymore. I don't you go someplace else, And so I did. I went to Mission Research Corporation in Washington, d C. Which was then part of the Reagan Arms
build up the Star Wars. So then I went to Washington, D C. And I had a top secret clearance and worked with the Pentagon and the Intel agencies on basically space plasma type applications. I worked on fusion energy also.
And you're hitting a lot of topics I want to talk about. First of all, I need to understand this concept of Q clearance. I've heard this mentioned all the time. Oh yeah, I related to energy or what is clear heard that q.
Q clearance is specifically, it's a Department of Energy clearance related to knowledge of how nuclear weapons work and what their effects are, and you know, it's like it's you know, the Q clearance is just kind of an entry level.
It's it's equivalent to the military top secret clearance, which I when I left San Dia Labs, they simply just transferred by clearance from being a Q clearance to being a top secret clearance with the Pentagon, so I could work on on direct energy weapons and space defense.
You have nbas that you can't talk about certain stuff still to this day. I mean that was fifty years ago.
Not really.
Do they run out or how did that work?
Well? The subjects that I worked on are now kind of unclassified. There are a few things I'm not supposed to talk about, and but those are not Those are not big deals, especially in the context of Mars and the whole UFO UAP thing. I was never ready into those programs. I basically just most of the stuff I heard about the UFO UAP thing was around the coffee machine and the cooler in these classified facilities where I worked.
Basically just like work, colleagues and stuff like that.
Talking absolutely absolutely they would because of my Mars work. Everyone was aware that I'd been involved in working on a dead civilization on Mars. So people felt free to discuss things that they had knew that they knew or had heard about UFO prom and it was a frequent topic of conversation, especially just before nine to eleven. When I was I was working with the agencies of the Pentagon in a classified you know, work setting where everything we did was classified.
So you were a contractor when you were working with the Pentagon and came back in the nineties then then had secret clearance or top secret clians.
Yes, I was a contractor working for Mission or Search Corporation, and I was a private consultant. Then I also worked for a company called the Aerospace Corporation. It's the Air Force think tank, and they would basically you were considered just a staff scientists and they would basically send you to sites to work on various problems.
And really that's how that works. Hold on, that's useful. I don't think be able to know that. So Aerospace Corporation is a think tank for the Air Force. Yeah, would higher on scientists and then just send them to go do project works.
Oh yeah, and you'd have a security clearance and then they would send you to various agencies around town in Washington, d C. To work on various projects, and so you would there was no there wasn't any working remotely. It was all office work inside classified facilities. But my job, my badge set Aerospace Corporation, which was a very you know, it was a very nondescript kind of name that the Air Force had adopted. So what attracted the attention.
They love their nondescript names, like how you got patent system? These people, these spooks, they know how to do it.
It was all Ashton. It was all pretty spooky, and you know, I heard a whole bunch of stuff about you know, people were talking quite frankly about UFO kind of phenomenon when I was working in these classified facilities. And so finally after nine to eleven, Uh yeah, I left simply because the money all went for boots and bullets in the Afghanistan. And so I took a job down in Florida at the Kennedy Space Center, working for
the Florida Space Institute. And as I at my farewell luncheon with a bunch of people the agency, I said, you know, I'd always wanted to write some science fiction, and I heard a lot of interesting things around the water cooler and you know, a coffee machine in the hall before and after meetings. I was gonna kind of put that all in a science fiction novel. What do you think of that? And they, to my surprise, very positive.
He said, John, we loved your reports. If you write a novel, a science fiction novel with all this stuff that you heard in there, we'll read it and makes just that's fine with us as long as it's labeled science fiction. So I made it a science fiction soap opera, you know, And and it's Morning Star passed the collapse of the UFO cover up. I'd just gone through nine to eleven, and one of my bosses commented, were there in DC going through nine to eleven? And one of
my bosses commented, two weeks after it had happened. He said, if this could happen, anything could happen. And so my in my novel, two women, of course glamorous news anchors bring down the UFO cover up and finally, at great risks of their lives, and there's an attempted cootie ta by the secret government which says the UFO cover up
is too big to fail. So there's actually a tank tank battles in the streets of Washington, d C. At Capitol Hill and uh and you know I like it, Oh absolutely absolutely.
What is there any time travel in it?
Uh No, there, you know it was. There was a flashback or two. But uh no, I'm a I'm not a big fan of time travel as a physicist.
Uh.
You know, like the second law, therminyamics basically, and the expansion of the universe. Those are kind of things that determine the the arrow of time. And you can't make all the galaxies come back closer together, and by that token, then you can't go back in time. And we all wish we could go back in time and do things a little bit differently than we did. You know, but.
Have you ever seen these experiments they do where they are looking at waves and big pools of water and they drop like a rock or a big heavy object in there, and they then look at the wave and kind of like model out the wave. Well, this is the reason why I think that you might be mistaken. Now, I've had the same views that you just mentioned on time travel. But it looks like there is quote unquote a time reversed wave that you can see basically the
reflection of all waves that occur. And if that's true, then yes, you're right. Everything's getting more and more complicated spreading apart. But then couldn't you, with a smart enough computer or brain, you know, reverse things back to the state that they were, or you know, model out where they would have been in the past and figure it out.
Oh, oh, precisely, Ashton. You're intuitive. You're intuitive, and understanding is correct. The microscopically, physics is time reversible. It's only when you look at the big picture a bunch of molecules interacting instead of just like two of them, two of them, you can reverse time. But if you have a bunch of them, the second law of thermodynamics takes over the same way. With the universe. An individual galaxy, you think, well, it's just sitting there spinning. You could,
you know, go back in time. But all of the galaxies are spreading apart, and that that gives you a definite time sense. But the only times I've ever been really wrong about anything, Ashton, is when I said something is impossible, so I considered unlike, I considered unlikely but not impossible, that they could do time travel. It's a great topic for science fiction. I wrote a science fiction short story about that, and and the guy went back in time and he was trying to witness the birth
of Jesus and everything everything went wrong. He was arrested by a spy by the Romans, and Flogg well, we almost died because he missed the time to be there. So everything everything went wrong and he ended up being stranded back in the past.
And yeah, there's a lot of paradoxes, especially with going in the past, you know. And that's why I think that I agree with you that maybe if there is a way to manipulate time, it's not going to be the science fiction I'm going back to nineteen fifty Evan to you know, kill my grandfather and then stop. To me, It'll be more of like life extension technology, like the ability to reverse a tumor or something like that, and like.
A local Absolutely, yeah, and I'll mention one thing too there. There's a very important piece of physics done by Wheeler and Finement. You know, Dick Fyneman, who's got the Nobel Prize for Wheeler developed the black hole theory and also he helped he engineered the hydrogen Bob. He was in charge of actually which bolt, which kind of bolts to use, et cetera, et cetera, and it worked. And but they came up with a theory and they found out that
the future can talk to the past. Yeah, it's so there's there's if you ask somebody like me, Okay, can you go back into past and kill your grandfather or something like that, I would probably say I think that's very unlikely. But can you talk to your grandfather in the past. Yes, apparently that is that is allowed by physics. And this is something ask You've got to realize the physics community is almost like a big country club where
certain things are not discussed. Yeah, scandalous things like the affair of the head of the country club with his secretary. You know, these things are just not discussed at meetings or at the And so that's Wheeler Feinneman theory basically says the prophetic knowledge agrees with physics. Like, for instance, one of the reason since I decided to write science fiction is because I realized science fiction was prophetic so many times, yeah that you had to Like, somebody wrote
this novel called Futility. It didn't sell well with that title, but it was about a great, big steamship full of rich people traveling across the Atlantic at high speed for the first time, runs into an iceberg at sinks with massive loss of life. And it was named the titan in his novel. And if you look at the measurements and the description of the ship, it matches the Titanic almost exactly. It was written twelve years before the Titanic disaster.
Yeah, there's a lot of predictive programming, and like you know, even ben Rich said that everything that you can imagine in Star Trek has already been figured out.
Oh it has. I believe Roddenberry was on the he was in the loop. They told him.
A lot of the things of x files, where x files was talking about zero point energy and capabilities as well, which I haven't feelings that d not be improven. True, it does make you wonder how much of this stuff, to your point about the books and the movies and the content we consume, is people that are in the know and they're writing the stuff under this idea of it being fiction, when in reality I'm an example.
I'm an example of you know. In fact, I joke, I said, I am the coolest tool of the US government, you know, and that they basically encouraged me to write all this stuff about UFOs as science fiction. And I ran into some people from the agencies I worked with, and they had read the novel and they said, John, how did you know all that stuff? You know? And I said, well, I just I just guessed a lot of it. And they said, well, you're a really lucky guesser.
And so it's a there's a lot of stuff in Hollywood movie science fiction movies that I believe was directly provided by the agencies to Hollywood.
It's comfortable with the idea of this technology and other life existing or something more nefarious.
Oh well, uh, oh well, the ever since World War two and and before that, the British Film Board basically would use movies as a propaganda tool to prepare like they they've they've made.
They're trying to send you up.
I think, well they have. They've been trying to bring the public up to speed. Believe it or not. Their intent, their overarching intention is that certain things will become kind of common knowledge, but not certain other things. Uh, you know, they like I found out that, for instance, Roswell would actually the Roswell incident was a shootdown. It wasn't two saucers crashed in the middle of the night. They didn't crash, They were shot down apparently, So I wrote a book about that.
What by radar or something else?
Oh, they were shot down by Uh, they got bit by a black Widow, which was the Air Forces night fighter at the time. It was a World War two night fighter. It was a it was twin piston engine fighter, but it had radar in the nose. It had was very heavily armed with four twenty milimeter cannons and a turd on top with four fifty caliber machine guns in it. And the it was only you're the uh, World War two,
it only ended less than two years before. So we had all these veteran crews for these night fighters and they were stationed in the Southwest. And according to phil of Courso, the when the UFO government, when the UFO started having this you know, the flying Saucer original Flying Saucer surge, Uh, the Air Force, uh, you know, it wasn't the Air Force and it was this Army Air Corps concentrated all of its security around Roswell. Do you know
what was stored at Roswell. All the nucletar weapons on Earth were stored at Roswell, along with the bombers to carry them. Yeah, so the government was protected. This was the first incident of the UFOs zooming in on our nucletar weapons stockpile, and the US government. After Pearl Harbor, the Battle of the Bulbs, world worked to the death camps. It was it was not going to tolerate any anything
that looked like a threat. So they they had at night, these night fighters and apparently they they ambushed two UFOs, two saucers over Roswell trying to spy on our nuclear weapons and shot him down. One of them Crashedswell.
You know, let me, I'm gonna play Devil's advocates. I'm skeptical, and I grow more and more skeptical of the connection between UFOs and nuclear nuclear weapons as time goes on. And I'll explain why I've actually was all in on this idea before. And Robert Salah, you know, he's I think one of the nuclear technicians that says he watched
his stuff get disabled by the UFOs. Wouldn't nukes just be like little child's twice compared to a species that has a craft that can there's my phone just float like this freely, because according to mainstream physics, there's no fuel source that could fit within this UFO make this be able to fly off to other solar systems. It would just no amount of mass could fit within what we see on the in the UFO, and it would just make it heavier, and we'll just make it harder.
So that means they must have an energy source that's far beyond nuclear atomic bombs. So why the hell, sorry for my part of my French. Why would the aliens give a crap about some primitive apes figuring out how nukes work.
Oh, there's a lot of things Ashton about the whole UFO experience that don't make a lot of sense until you realize that part of this is a display. It's it's a psy op operation. Oh here, here's now. I absolutely believe that there are alien species out there that were not alone in the universe. We found that out about bars.
You know, I mean, the universe is huge, so you know you don't have to convince me of that there's probably aliens out there somewhere. If we can teleport, then aliens can get to us. Really easily as well.
And they could also be oh yeah, yeah, there's a there's what's called the Einstein Rosen Bridge.
Yeah, and so yeah, you can find question is why do they care about nukes? Then, if they've got this super advanced technology, why they care about nukes? Just give me like the top one or two reasons? Oh uh.
Oh, because nukes use the same power source. That power is supernova's and uh yeah, they know that if their ship gets hit with a tactical nuke, it will be destroyed.
And it doesn't from the destructive power.
Oh, just from the destructive power. Uh ash. You got to remember a lot of uh this is uh you know. Here's a you know, great white hunter arriving in New Guinea and he's standing there in his khakis with his rifle and he says, I have a magic bangstick, and the natives then pepper him with arrows because he doesn't have anybody and he's dead. Funk funk funk. So much for white Man's magic. And and but you want to
create the pretense that your bulletproof. And you'll notice in a lot of science fiction movies one of the first things that happened is somebody will shoot an alien and the alien will fall over dead. This great scene in Earth versus the Flying Saucers, once they got outside their air their force field, they could be shot just like
anything else. And and and this agrees with the reports from even abductees that sometimes abductees have actually real if they're coming and sit there with a gun, and the aliens see that and decide not to not to hang around. And but you want to keep up the pretense that, oh, none of your weapons can hurt me. Fact, there's great.
There's a scene in the science fiction movie where a woman is holding a gun on this guy who's an alien and she's he says, can't hurt me, and she pulls the trick the phone over Dad.
Yeah, everybody, And that thing I like is that you know, it's they're not invincible. UFO is not invincible alien. But we all, we all have to succumb to the physics of this universe we live in. So let me go down to another question. You said, yes, no, it's fine, but I just I want to dig into these topics, which is okay, you want to go on energy stort. The energy source is potentially the same way as a New Kork let me just ask you this, what what
is the energy source for a UFO? Well, in your opinion, what do you think the energy sources?
In my opinion, uh, some of it is a lot of it is beamed from the motherships. So you have and and and by the way, if you if you're defined gravity, you're making uh, the mass, the effective mass of the UFO becomes zero. And interestingly enough, so once you get over a threshold, you need very little energy to keep it covering or flying. Uh. That's why they can, you know, do these sharp right turns as they're they're
basically being treated as if they have no inertia. And inertia, by the way, is the handshake that objects make with the rest of the the mass of the universe too, you know, show that they have a mass. And so in my opinion, uh, a lot of the smaller ships are just beamed. They just have a nice tight microwave beam on them to give them just enough power to run everything. But they don't need much power when they're
when they're in this waitless state. If you if you're kind of in a state of local zero gravity, then you don't need any energy to preserve that you have all you need to do is make sure that that the fields that do that are controlled. The larger ships I believe run on fusion energy, just like the stars, and once we figure out how to make fusion energy,
you know, we're doing that now. I've worked on that all my career, on and off to work on fusion and it's incredibly You can make fusion energy that technically releases no radiation, so you could actually sit beside the thermonuclear reactor on your ship and it would generate megawatts of power and enough to power just about anything you want.
So oh well, people talk about zero point energy and you'd think, okay, like pressure, Like you know, a can of air at very high pressure, you can get energy from that. You open the valve and blow the air through a turbine that gives you press But that's a pressure difference. If you're a fish down to the bottom of Arianus Trench, you're surrounded by pressure, but you can't feel it because the pressure inside you're the same as the pressure outside equilibrium. So zero point energy, people, it
does have very high energy. I mean, quantum mechanics predicts that the universe has all of this energy in it. Every every cubic centimeter. But here's an example of how to release zero point energy. Make yourself a small black hole and putting stuff into it. That black hole will swallow most of what you feed into, the rest of
it will vaporize and turn into a plasma. And if you put up what's called an MHG generator to get the energy out of the plasma flow out, then you can generate power from this black hole by just feeding it aspirts every yeah, and so, but the thing is is that if you lose control of that process, then the black hole swallows everything a higher planet. So I'm just saying, unless you know what you're doing on this, well that's that's a way to do it. According to soccerov android Sokarov, Russian.
That's what he thinks. Okay, well then now I definitely think that's the answer. So if that's just as simple as I mean, and when you think of stuff, it can just be energy because equals mc squared some masses energy.
So if we're just shooting like ado second laser pulses continuously onto a point, then theoretically we can produce a tiny black hole and sustain it by just keep zapping it more and more and more, as long as we have like perfect precision on our on our and we're basically created a particle collider, then at that point, right, I mean, that's what that is, just lazer. So now there was a paper that I read on this front
that said that it tried to our argue you. I think it was a little too optimistic that the Hawking radiation or black body radiation would prevent the black hole from ever stabilizing, that it would radiate away before that occurred. And he hot takes her opinions on that.
If you start me, oh, let me let you let me say real.
Quick too before I before you answer, is that Salvator Pais adamantly disagreed in private conversations with me and said that for sure we can produce a black hole.
So what do you think, Well, Salva or Palas and I have that. We even published a joint article where he he made a great discovery mathematically from general relativity called the super force, and you know, I helped him get that published in the you know, just a scientific journal, and so we get we get along just fine. I yes, you could make a tiny black hole like with an
auto laser beam and and then. But according to Hawking Hawking's theory, if you make this tiny black hole, it disappears almost instantly and you just basically get the energy. You're basically just taking perfectly good laser energy and turning it into black body radiation coming out. There's no it's not clear that you can get any gain from that.
I tend to view zero point energy as something that if it was easy to do, it would be like a black hole that could then get out of control and swallow everything you were trying to power, uh, specifically like your entire planet. So it I I'm not a big believer in zero point energy that will be able to harness. But like I said, the the few times I've been wrong in my physics s careers when I said something is impossible, so uh, maybe that.
A little bit more so, do you think pret energy as possible as real? Are you more of the there's no way to get more energy out than inn? I?
I pretty much. I don't think. I don't think there's cause the cosmos provides you with a free lunch, except for the entire cosmos itself.
Except for the entire the time that happened where everything the entire lunch. That's my favorite counter is when people say there's no such thing as energy from from nothing, and I go, except for that time when the Big Bang happened and all energy appeared from nowhere except.
See but you know, you're you're a podcast. That's great. Uh, you know, but you could talk about these things and you're right, you're right. Uh, you know, the Big Bang wasn't all you can eat buffet for lunch. Uh. And uh so it's but fusion energy, especially burning like deuterium and helium three, that has the potential to be You wouldn't be able to tell the difference between that and a free energy machine. It was just a black box and you put in a tiny amount of helium and
a tiny amount of heavy hydrogen. You get all this energy out. I mean, it would be easy, In fact, it would be easy for an alien to claim hold my black box. Human. It produces free energy from the vacuum. And and then you say, well, what what are you feeding into there? Oh? Helium? It helps, It helps, It helps the reactions go, you.
Know, and it works.
By the way, You've got to realize you can't believe, ye, the universe is full of snake oil salesmen, and not all of them are from Earth. You've got to realize this is a cosmo political, almost cold war situation we have going with some of these species, especially the little short gray guys. And you can't believe anything they tell you nothing.
Okay, Well before we get to the aliens that I have any more hard physics questions on that front. So yes, yes, plasma. So and this is something that I've struggled with, which is that are people that are in the hot fusion community really saying that we're just getting you know, if you do the chemistry, we turn two heavy hydrogen deuterium atoms in to a helium and we get a little bit of access energy.
Oh well, you know it's it's it's.
Is that correct?
Yes? Uh, but but in terms of since equals mc square c is so big, the the amount of energy at least is enormous.
So you know, the fuel then heavy hydrogen is relatively abundant right on planet Earth. So that would feel like, oh, yeah, we can get it from anywhere. Can we get it from the air?
Yep?
Yeah, that's because there's kind of like a lot of air on this planet. So you could just have your device. Have you seen this n G eight company that is literally producing cold fusion plasma that they claim just run straight off the air just like that.
Uh No, I'm by the way myself, and we're telling with a mentor at our school that I went to at Livermore, and he would come around and talk to us and give us lectures and stuff. I talked to him several times. It was a great honor to me to do that, and he basically encouraged us to always think practically about everything. And his reaction to cold fusion was, well, wow, there's probably It turns out the volcano is on the bottom of the ocean in the mid Atlantic Ridge put
out all of this heavy helium. It's called helium three or no, actually light helium helium three instead of helium four, and helium three is the product of fusion reactions. So he's that nature is already doing cold fusion. There's no explanation for all this helium three coming out of these volcanoes under and but at the same time, my own experience has been that yes, you can apparently get some energy out of cold fusion, but very little. It's like
a radium watch dial puts out light. Okay, maybe you could clamp solar cells on a radium watch dial and say, oh, I'm getting infinite energy from radium. Well, it's not very much energy. It's not enough energy to run the watch as it turns out, you know you have to. But people have invented now nuclear batteries that run for thousands of years without needing to be recharged, but they don't
put out much power. Nature Yeah good, Yeah, yeah. Nature likes big releases of energy like quick start uh, massive invests in a star in order to get like this to make the sun work. By my son, who's kind of a wise acre, but it's also very smart, he said, Dad. If you want to have harness fusion power, just put up a sol.
Yeah.
I don't believe nature.
Nature has. Well, you may very well be right, and somebody in his garage a harness figure out a way to harness cold fusion. But my own impression after examining that field for many, many years is the main problem with cold fusion is that it's cold, and because it's cold, it's not producing. It's not giving you much. It's more like a radium watchtyal than than uh than something like a fusion reactor like the sun don't.
But you know, you know, like that that's I look at that problem. Is that's a benefit, Like we can do cold fusion they produce.
Oh yes, there's no question that we can harness nuke and or energy to get electrical power. I mean I used to live in Wisconsin and uh, you know, we had four nuclear power We had four nuclear power stations powering the uh state during the winter. Uh. Uh. I had a guy who was I was teaching at a college state college and teaching physics and astronomy, and one guy on staff. He was a big advocate for wind
power and solar power. And in the middle of winter, I would drive to into work and I'd see him. That's say, Josh, there's no wind, there's no sun. Why are the lights on in this building? And the answer was nuclear power? And so we've already. But but you know, of course that fission power has its own problems. Chernobyl, Fukushima, through Mile Island.
Everything has So I don't find it very efficient though, to just boil some water and spin a turbine. That doesn't seem like a very intelligent way to produce energy to me. And you might be right. Maybe right now, we don't have very powerful zero point energy taps.
Oh, I mean, it's.
Just an engineering problem to me. I mean you say, oh, we can produce some energy, but we can only produce a little bit of amount. And I say, okay, well let's try something else. And I would say maybe plasma for example. And this leads me my next question that I want to ask you about, which is are you familiar with Ken's Shoulders? Are you familiar with hal Pudolph? And do you know about their EV hold on, let
me finish with quick. Do you know about their ev condensed charge research that the Pentagon like highly prioritized in the early nineties. So because they like the answer all your the questions that you said there about the zero puin energy, the plasma, everything we've been saying to me is, well, look at Ken shoulders ev O work, because he's basically saying, here's the answers to all the problems that you just described.
Ken Shoulders was just a marvelous guy. I had a very pleasant luncheon and after I spent hours sitting in my office and he was chatting with me in Washington, d C. And we got along famously he showed me all his experimental work and oh it was just great. Uh, it's so sad that he's not around now. He And the thing is that he told me he was not talking about it as an energy source. But you know, I'm sure that his thoughts evolved on and he maybe figured out a way the phenomenon that he found his
EVS electron velorum, the strong electrons. I believe that that he was really onto something. In fact, that it didn't get pursued. He is that probably it's part of a classified program someplace. You know, all of us my own experience has stumbled on how to make gravity modification in the lab. I mean it was very tiny amount. It's Parker was when I would talk about publishing it, the people who had paid me to do the work, whom I later discovered work for the agency, said, uh, we
we think that that would be a bad idea. John. Uh, you know, we paid you good money to do this research and own it, and we don't want it out. There was the what they told me. Yeah, uh, you know it was, And it was it was not even direct. It was more like, John, you'll be on really shaky ground if you try to get this stuff publish and if you want any more money from us, you won't do that. And so so basically I discovered that the government could do gravity modification based on this GEM theory
that I had worked on. And what that meant, though, was that there was an enormous classified program going on on about this and that, uh, they basically wanted to see what I could do based on this fairly rudimentary theory I developed of unifying gravity in D and M. They wanted to see what I could do with it and to see if they had to, uh, you know,
give me a bus ticket to Site fifty one. And what they did is they kind of satisfied, satisfied themselves that I didn't have you know, I couldn't make anything flyer out of the rule. I would just make things get lighter on a on a chemical scale. And so what they did is they basically just said, good work, John, don't talk about this to anybody, and maybe it will give you some more money. More money was not forthcoming.
Finally I got a two hundred thousand dollars grant from DARPA to developed my theory of gravity E and M unification, which leads to control gravity. And one of these stipulations when I got the money from DARPA is we don't want you doing experiments. This is purely theoretical. Do you understand? And I said, yes, sir, please sign my check. So let me.
So you're familiar with ken shoulders work, You said, but what about how the name that comes up.
How put Off? Oh, how put Off is a scholar and gentleman. Uh. And he has a very similar theory to mine find gravity and E and M that he has published. He and I get the same results for how to produce gravity. And I just published in an article where I basically showed that you can get the same you know in the equation that gives you flight for airplanes, you know the wing, the basic design of the wing for an airplane. It's called the Bernoulli equation.
You can actually derive what's called that works in the vacuum. It works on the moon because it's changing gravity with electromagnetism. And I showed that I can get that equation from my theory, and then if I go to how Putoff's theory, I can get the same equation using his equations. So we have slightly different models. His both of our models can be summarized in that if you have two bright objects in a dark box, they put out a black
body radiation field. They push against each other because of radiation pressure, so they'll push each other apart in this dark right, objects in a dark box push each other apart because of mutual radiation pressure. If you put two dark objects in a bright box, you eat the box, so it's white hot. They actually attract one another because of mutual shadowing, and it goes as one over our square, just like gravity. And that is kind of a way to summarize the theory of both myself and how put Off.
How put Off's original work was based on Andre's Sokrov You must understand that a hydrogen bomb runs on radiation pressure. You set off an atomic bomb inside a watermelon shaped casing at one end of the case. One end of the watermelon is an atomic bomb, and you focus all of the energy coming out of that onto the other end, where they have a ball of hydrogen isotopes, and that's
what gives you up. And so Andre Sokaroff was working on that basic design of hydrogen bomb, which is the same as the Teller design.
And.
He basically realized, oh, you could get a theory or gravity out of this. So he published a very brief article about how quantum the quantum zero point energy produces a radiation pressure that pushes objects together and published theory. And how put Off took that theory and expanded on it. And but I give Hall and I get along just great. He's a great guy. We basically get the same answers.
Okay, doctor Brandenburg. You know, I'm a huge fan of your gem unification theory. I love your analogy of the black box and the light inside the black box or the light box with the black inside of it. And the reason why I love it is that it shows this duality of gravity where you can have this attractive force or repulsive force. And I think that's one of the big things that we get wrong on gravity, is that we assume it only has one force effect, but
potentially it could have an opposite one. And I love that your theory also explains you can actually calculate big g which, as you were mentioning before I just had to edit this, you were saying that this really impressed a lot of the people that you know, this theory shows that we have big G. Now, are you familiar with some other people that have come up with similar theories?
Like fried Wart Winterberg has this theory of plank Ether hypothesis which is also very similar to yours, and how Pudolph. There's another guy, Larry Reid, who is I think a former Lockheed Martin engineer, that he has this big book on quantum wave mechanics and it also has similar similar theories. Right, were you familiar with any of them?
I'm not familiar familiar with Reid's uh work, But Friedrich Winnenberg and I go way back. Unfortunately he's not with us anymore. Yeah, yeah, he I met him first when I was working at Livermore.
Really he was a friend.
He was a friend of my one of my thesis advisors, and uh yeah, and then I would run into it periodically over the years. And uh his reaction to my big G was skepticism. Oh yes, he says, if you're right, I will carry your bags to Stockholm, you know, when you get your Nobel Prize. I liked the sound of that. But uh, he he was he was a very cross, kind of a grumpy character when I knew him, and uh, you know, and uh, uh I'll give you one quick
story about it. He pennantly figured out how to hydrogen bomb worked and started publishing that and was amazed when the US government showed up and confiscated all his papers, and he didn't like that. He was very grumpy about that, and he he would show up at scientific meetings wearing carrying a big billboard saying the government has confiscated my papers and saying I can't talk about this or that. And I remember the comment of my thesis advisor to him,
a very brilliant colony, Harry Seline, with us anymore. But he said Freedwart. He always called him freed Wort. He said, we already know how to build a hydrogen bomb. Tell us something, tell us how to do you know, harness fusion energy, So if you know, we could power our cars, you know, the hydrogen bomb problem, that's already been solved. And but so Winterberg was was a very independent, rugged individualists.
He apparently worked for as a graduate student for Werner Heisenberg, who was in charge of the the Nazi.
Principle kind of like a big deal.
Oh yeah, the uncertainty principle.
And mentor that was Winterbrig's mentor, And it turns out he's been working on all this secret stuff and was plasma researcher like you as well. And it turns out you knew him. Oh, I just showed a picture of his book. His books got an atomic bomb exploding on it. On in front of his book. It's literally called nineteen eighty one the Principles Physical Principles of Thermo Nuclear Explosive Devices. I mean, I can see why the government might like, have you put him under lock and key?
So it was it was a very awkward situation. Finally, the government decided to just declassify a lot of the stuff that he was talking about.
How they didn't when did that happen? Because what I had heard.
That happened about in nineteen eighty about the end of nineteen eighty one. Finally, so he kind of won. He kind of won that. But other people were figuring it out too, just from open literature. And but yeah, so he yeah, but that was the thing, Freedmark. We already know how to build a hydrogen Bob, tell us how to build something useful.
You know, give us the free energy devices.
Free energy devices.
Yeah, what do you think about, Eric Davis? That's the last guy I want to ask you about Eric Davis.
And Eric Davis is a brilliant guy. And he worked with how put Off, which you know for years, which is anybody who worked with hal put Off is a good guy. I haven't I haven't spoken to Eric Davis uh in years. We had a few brief conversations and conferences.
What about his papers specifically, He's got one about extracting energy from the vacuum and one of the methods is using an electrostatic what they call it inertial electrostatic confinement process. He's got a paper about ball lightning, which is basically how to stabilize the ball of plasma. And then he also got a paper on wormholes, traversible wormholes, stargates and dark energy.
Now, these are all very very interesting, good things. I myself was tasked by the Air Force to make ball lightning, only overbidden to call it ball lightning. We were given three quarters of a million dollars in a three year program to make ball lightning. We managed to make it in microwave ovens and UH and it would just run for minutes. You could just make this ball of fire appear and UH sit there for minutes. In the microwave oven. Uh. We finally made it as big as soccer balls in
a in an industrial microwave. Well, we went to a regular A regular microwave oven uses short wavelength uh, and so they have industrial microwaves that uses a lower frequency, so the wavelengths are bigger, so you can cook larger things like a ton of bacon. You can cook a ton of bacon at once using industrial microwaves. So we went up to the facility where they had a big industrial microwave set up and made ball lightning there. We made it as big as soccer balls.
All lightning and you call it something else.
We we called it pia leaning, persistent ionization and air You'll notice if you watch a lightning strike someplace, you'll have a lightning strike and then they'll be like half a second, we'll go by, and then a lightning strike will fall exactly the same.
Path because their.
Has been ionized and it stays ionized. And by the way that that violates all present theories of how the atmosphere works. So there's something mysterious. When we first produced our ball lighting, we went to a conference sponsor by the Air Force, and the people ahead of us were from some university. They had several professors and their teams of graduate students, and they said that what we're attempting
to do is impossible. And then we rolled in a microwave, ove it and did it right in front of them. And you know what, they didn't come up to me and shake my hand afterwards. Now they sat in the back of the room and looked very grumpy like what I'd done was cheap, some cheap carnival trick. But we made it. Yeah, we made this ball lightning as big as the soccer balls that we got. Welder sunburned from it. So if you see ball lightning in your backyard, stay
away from it. It's probably charge to a million bolts.
Do you think you could turn it into a drone that could be remote controlled?
Well, let me put it this way. If you are generating anti gravity drive according to the theory that myself and help put Off has a very similar theory, then you're generating powerful electromagnetic fields around an object, and that will turn the air into a plasma state, like almost fire. So you from a distance, it'll just look like a plasma, or you wouldn't even be able to see what's causing it?
I guess my question is is there something that can you put something inside of it that can do that? Or does it have to be projected out to it like the you.
Could put something inside of it. Uh. Something that's nullifying local gravity uses such a powerful electromagnetic fields. It actually breaks down the air uh to make it glow, and it makes a weak plasma in the air. And in fact, if you don't, if you're not careful, if you make the plasma too intense, the whole effect will just shut off and your thing will crash.
Stabilize it, right.
You have to stabilize it. So it's a uh. And by the way, according to my theory, you can tell UFOs are coming from miles and miles away before you can even see it, because they put out electromagnetic signature. And my own belief is the government already knows how to pick. They can tell a they can tell a regular hobbyists. Uh.
You know, it's absurd to think that with the UFOs using electromagnetic and like you know, endothermic drives is what I'm gonna call it. They're not the reason why we're filming an infrared and thermal and stuff like that is partially because it's just better sensors, but also because they're able to pick this stuff up like instantaneously compared to optical spectrum. Right yeah, let me ask.
You, so if you have the right if you are looking for the right frequencies of electromagnetism, and this has been known in the UFO community for a long time. UH. They they say that one frequency that the UFO is like to use is thirty it's half of wall current
instead of sixty hertz. Is thirty hurts And there are reasons for that that I won't go into, maybe, but it's a well, I mean it's it's it's you don't want to turn your UFO into a radio station because the shorter the wavelength, the more UH the more radio frequency you admit, and finally, all your power just goes into making UH E and M radiation radio waves. And you don't want that. You want the radio, You want the electromagna field to hang around your ships so you
can fly. So my own belief is the government can pick up the U. I can tell the difference between Joe Butt's hobby uh drone that he's just flying around UH just because he likes to do that and and a real UFO. Uh by the way, I will I don't know if you want this opinion right now, but the whole drop, this whole so called drone thing, and its core, I believe is a UFO surge, of a surge of et UFO sightings. The government is then desperately running around with its own drones and its own helicopters
with light bright lights on them. At night, all you can see just is the bright light. And so the government is trying to blow as much smoke as possible. And they've always done this whenever there's a big surge of UFO siding, they call it swamp gas. They call it sightings of venus, they call it weather balloons. When they UFOs are flying over Washington, DC and jet fighters were chasing them, they said, these are just temperature inversions,
you know, you know, in the air. And so the drones are a very convenient thing where the government to use as a lame a lame excuse. I mean, if these were real drones, they wouldn't be able to shut down Bright Patterson Air Force BACE and Langley Air Force Space.
Yeah, they're they're using its neuro linguistic programming. You know, it's just a diversion. You can call the UFO a drone. This is why I was asking me the earlier question about do you think these balls of plasma can be drones? And what I would recommend, humbly you're the expert, is check out Ken Shoulders scientific paper called Primitivity Transitions, because it essentially argues that after he realized that space was not empty, there really is this ether of energy, the
zero point energy. Yes, he realized that if you make this ball plasma, that it actually has anti gravity properties just naturally, because what's happening is the plasma's changing the permittivity of that region of space, changing the speed of light. And so it turned out that you could just if you think about biological extension, you could use this plasma on say a hypersonic spy plane to allow it to
cut through the air. You could use it on a UFO, so you could have a craft inside, you know, and your plasma is covering your UFO or why have anybody in there at all? Why haven't be a transportation device at I'll just turn it into a drone. Just put a small and now you've got a drone that looks like a ball of plasma like a star that can just float around. And I and Hal putoff. He has like one major patent. It's been approved five different times.
It's just called communication system. Like and this is one of the spookiest names ever because you read it and like, oh, it's a quantum communication system that doesn't use electric and magnetic fields. It just uses potentials, scaler potentials. I'm looking at it and I'm going, he's got a he's got a gravity communication device that can control a plasma drone because it says right in there it goes through plasma. I'm like, oh, well, there's your communication method.
Oh oh uh, well, the the scaler uh, the scaler waves phenomenon was first talked about by Tesla, who if anybody would know about such stuff, it would be Tesla. So unfortunately he didn't leave a lot well in the notes that we know about. And of course when he died, the FBI was in the middle of World War two. The FBI went to his apartment confiscated everything. In fact, it was Trump's uncle, President Trump's uncle John let the let let the uh you know, the team of FBI agents.
They just took everything but the bare walls. I think they even took the wallpaper that he might have scribbled on. But anyway, he believed in scale the scaler potential, Uh, electromagnetic fields of you know ares they have you know, but this is like a pressure. This is like a sound wave. A sound wave is what's called a scalar wave. It's a pressure. It doesn't have any direction to it,
it just has a number. And Tesla talked about this is It turns out the gem theory I work on and also which was used by Einstein is based on Cluza kaline theory five dimensional theory. And when you do the five dimensional theory to unify, it unifies the mathematics of gravity and electromagnetism. So it does that, and what also falls out is this scalar field that so.
Let me jump in here because I'm Bearden also references all the same physicists, Clusa, Client, soccer Ov, everybody you've been talking about, and he explains, uh, scalar physics. A lot of people don't understand it. And so I I think this demonstration will help because this is actually something Tom Montalk he's also a physicist and engineer if you haven't talked about you should. He talks about this and
it's a very simple thought. Is that right now, if you were to take two waves like electromagnetic waves with the right hand rule, blah blah blah, you have them out of phase of one another like this, or it can be a triangle formation any zero point system, so they cancel each other out. So whatever their amplitudes of their waves are, cancel each other out. Conventional physics would say, okay, that means I'm pulling on both sides of this rubber
band equally. Okay, so it's not gonna move left or right right now, I can pull twice as hard, same thing. It's not moving left or right. I can play it five times as hard. Eventually, this rubber band is gonna snap right. That stress in the medium is the scaler potential. That's the gravity. That's the effect that we feel from all the energy around us all the time. What do you think?
I like your analogy? I, with your permission, I will be using it.
Go ahead. I'm paying it forward. You know, I'm paying the analogy forward because it's important. It's a simple way to think about it, where you would never say that there's nothing here like you would say that. The more I'm pulling this, you're creating this stress and you can hear it by you know, interacting with it. To me, that's what space time is, and all the energy on top of space time is is that there's different stresses. And this is what I think Einstein showed in general relativity,
different amounts of stresses in different regions. And this ball of Earth that we're sitting on causes a very large stress that we feel is gravity all around us. Right, yes, so you know what, let's let's let's talk some smack about some people. You know, if you want to sound off on the academic you know, maybe I'll sound off first, and then.
You sound off on the academia.
You sound off on the academic community first, and then I'll respond, and then all sound off on the UFO community and you can respond.
I you know, I went to a string theory It was primarily a string theory conference because that's where theoretical physics has been concentrating. I fortunately brought my nice girlfriend. She wanted to go to the conference with me. And I've been married twice and divorced twice, so anyway, so she's standing there beside me. This guy looks like he wants to slug me. After I showed him my G the derivation for Big G because they can't do it.
It's and he accused me of mathematical sleight of hand that I'd hidden G on one side of the equation made her appear on the other side. And I said, here's the derivation. Here's my equation. It's three lines. Where's big G on this other side of the equation that I make magically appear? And and it was just like a fight in my old high school where I grew up. If you want to know where there's a fight, just look for a crowd of people around it. And a
bunch of people are crowded around to watch this. And you know, he just was just furious with me.
What do you think that? Where do you think that comes from?
Like the string the string theory, real real academic science, uh at, especially in the big leagues. Is it's you know, it's like professional basketball. It's not supposed to be a contact sport, but it is. Uh. In a tight game, championship game with a tight score under the net in the final minutes, the knees and the elbows start to fly. I mean, uh, it gets really personal.
Uh do you think that money?
Oh yeah, it's a fight over It's a fight over money. Uh and prestige power. I mean, how can I get to be a department head if I can't find Big G? And this guy Brandenburg has done it, you know, and his number is part good to within a part per ten thousand, you know. And this other graybeard came up to my paper and I had the equations all up on a big screen, and he says, he's looking at everything very carefully. And I said, sir, I can help
you walk. I can walk you through this theory, you know, in my derivation for big G. And I also get the mass of the proton, you know, which is massive hydrogen. And he just looks at me. He just glares at me and says, no, I can read it for myself. So these people won't give me zip credit because it will Indeed, they view science as a zero sum game. If somebody else's theory, you know, if somebody else's theory it's any kind of credit or publication in a nice journal,
then this this diminishes me. How can I become head of the department of physics at Harvard. If this idiot Brandenburg is running around talking about big G and so they go ahead. Yeah, so the government has determined the the way that science will go in this country by funding string theory for like thirty years. They're they're gas lighting the entire academic community. In my opinion, string theory
obviously doesn't work. It doesn't produce anything that can be tested in like at CERN, and basically the government says, well, if it doesn't have strings in it, we're not going to fund it. And what they're doing is they've they've taken people like me and how put Off and some other people have taken the too long range forces in nature electromagnetism and gravity and unified the mathematically, which is you know, started by clusive client theory, and they don't
want us working on that. In fact, even Einstein, who worked on the unified field theory said he says, I've gotten the impression the government is not happy with my work on unified field theory and wishes I would not talk about it anymore. And it's because there's been a classified anti gravity program. What you're really talking about is a theory of anti gravity for gravity modification.
Wellhy can't academia figure it out? I mean, so, I guess you get it. Is it really just as simple as the money is coming from the government to fund it, and they only fund the research that they want.
They only fund the research they want.
You would still think though that, and I agree with you by the way, that absolutely they don't want anyone looking at unified theories. They don't want anybody looking down any path that will lead them to the physics, which is the ether. There isn't a field of energy that's out there, there's an extra dimension like clues, a client said. And because the moment you figure any of this out, everything unravels. You realize like, oh, we can easily do fusion.
Oh we can produce we have these energy sources that are exotic energy sources. We can produce anti gravity. We might be able to sort of messing around with time as well. So you know, you can see why they would do it. But the part I don't understand, how
are more physicists not figuring it out? From my perspective, I'm a guy with no PhD. I've been researching this for the last year, year and a half, and I realized there's I mean, I feel like, not only is there something here, not only is this UFO phenomenon real, but the physics it's not even like there's all these options. It's like the what you know, what you said with gem theory, how Pudoph's theory. They're all soccer off. They're all based on this idea of this energy field all
around us. Yes, the same concept. And that's the answer there. It is these guys have all been saying it, you know, Brandenburg here how put Off, Like, these guys might have seen UFOs and secret projects for all we know. I'm not saying you did, but you know, I think it definitely has. And so it's like, why are the other people not figuring this out? What do you think the reason is? Why is it just like this guy Ashton and my crew of misfits.
Well, I'm part of a rebel band up in the hills basically along with hal put Off and some other workers who figured, you know, figured out the riddle. Uh. In my opinion, it's as simple as Okay, Brandenburg, you have this theory with this Bernoulli vacuum Bernoulli equation. What does an aircraft? What does a craft look? Like that uses it. Well, it's a saucer with three bumps on the bottom, and and and once you see that picture, you just say, oh, this can't be right, and we're
not going to fund this. And in fact, even the word the term anti gravity markshe in the academic community is somebody who can't get funding from the government. You call it gravity modification. And and but you but all of that is apparently just completely been subsumed by this string theory business, and they've wasted thirty billion dollars. And you could say this is what's called the Winterberg effect. Winterberg stumbled on how to build the hydrogen bomb just
from the open literature. He was close enough that the government decided to confiscate all his papers, scolded him. It didn't do any good. Finally they just ended up declassifying basically all its ideas. And uh so, but this is the winner Berg effect applied to gravity E and M gravity modification.
Uh So, there's suppression and stigma, adding stigma to certain topics like you see this a lot. And this is why I use certain topics like UFOs cold fusion anti gravity, although I actually I use gravity modification just because I think it's more accurate. But yeah, they stigmatize these topics and then nobody will touch them. Academia won't touch them. Now I want to take it a step further because I want to talk about aliens in the UFO community.
Is that I and I'm gonna I'm gonna be a little adversarial here actually, But first I want to say that when I started researching the UFO side of this, I was disgusted by the community. I did not expect. What I found is I found this community that's hyper political, that like admonishes conspiracy theorists while also claiming that there's this major conspiracy by the government to cover up aliens. And I also found that people were very obsessed with
the idea of aliens in general. That everybody's got their belief system about what the aliens are, where they come from, or what have you. Perfectly honest cards on the table. I don't care about any of that. I don't care where they come from, what they are. They actually don't even surprise me if they exist, because, like you said, I think the universe is a big place. There's aliens. There is a big I have no doubt whether or not they're visiting us unless they're impacting my life, I don't.
I don't really care. But what I found with the UFO me was much like what you reference with academias. They treated like a zero sum game, like if I'm coming in, I'm taking away attention. One of the things I heard a lot is that I'm hurting the UFO community when I come in with reticulous, a literal missing plane.
I'm going, how am I hurting the UFO To me, It's not like this community has a huge amount of credibility here talking about the blue telepathic aliens that nobody's ever videoed like, I'm talking about a real missing plane
and technology. So here's the thing that I really wanted to ask you about, is that my opinion after a year and a half is that a lot of these disclosure advocates, like the Luella Zando's of the world that are out there and anyone that's in his crew, you'll see them always doing stuff together, like Jeremy Corbel, the George Naps. They are essentially, in my opinion, on the government payroll, and they're saying that here we'll give you aliens. Aliens in this hand are real and that's not that
mind blowing to anybody, in my opinion. No, you're not really revealing anything about it. And then they say, well, I'm hiding something behind my back for national security. They say, I'll always tech national security, and I go, well, what is it that you're hiding back there behind your back,
because you're saying that aliens are real? And I think that what they're hiding back there is basically the first hour of this podcast, which is they we've figured out cold fusion, We've figured out free energy, or at least a source of energy that's so unlimited that we would consider it to be free energy, and that that's a national security issue because hydrogen bombs, you know, zero point energy bombs, whatever, the next we're going to call the
next evolution, that's a national security issue. And so my opinion, the whole UFO thing is that you've got these people out there that are grifting off of it, trying to sell people this hope for the aliens are going to come save us and you know, fix all the problems in the world. You've got these other people that are just lying by a mission that are like, yeah, aliens are real, but I'm not gonna say anything more beyond that.
And then you've got a few people like the Stephen Greers of the world and people like dark journalists who say, like, we've got this crazy technology out there, maybe it came from aliens, or it did come from aliens, but that it's all about the military protecting it. So do you think that my assessment is fair? And which where do you align on this?
Char I tend to agree with just about everything you have said. I mean, it probably differ on a few details, but I mean, I I met Lou Elizondo. I thought he's typical of some of the people I worked with in Washington, d C. Were veteran people from agencies. They've been down in Latin America. Uh, you know, fighting communist guerrillas and stuff. These are tough guys. He struck me. It's just one of these really tough guys who's come out of the jungle given a suit. You know, you
take off of those cameos. Lou, We're going to give you a business suit and you're going to go to some conferences for us, and uh, you know, I immediately liked him because of that, and uh, but he's he's basically admitted that he's still on the government payroll. And he basically said, well, I can't talk about that because I haven't been authorized to. And I thought, well, I thought you were you're whistle bow, you're a whistle blower. No, it turns out they he's been given a whistle that
doesn't blow. It blows only one note, you know.
And no disrespect to him, because I agree, like I respect our veterans. Yes, if anyone, if anyone wants to make the choice they're going to protect national security over disclosure, that's fine, that's your choice. I'm not I just think that if you're going to try to be the spokesperson for this at the same time, do you think it's true that the thing they're hiding behind the back is the science and the physics and the technology. Do you
think that's what they're hiding or you think it's something else. I, oh, there's that component, but there's a lot of other stuff, uh like black projects, operations or what do you what do you think?
Well, if you read uh you know, so, if you read the novel, or you can actually watch a video synopsis of it on YouTube, it's just called Morning Star Pass Edition three. It's like half hour. That is even a short one, but there's shorter version. But you'll realize
the government has been fighting. Here's my understanding. We are involved in a low intensity conflict with some of the species out there, especially the little short gray guys, and the government at one point entered into a secret treaty with them, and that's forbidden in the Constitution. Treaties are supposed to be ratified by the Senate. They're supposed to be negotiated by ambassadors that the Senate designates, and with
the advice and consent to the Senate. And apparently, we know, we actually decided to short circuit that entire process and come up with a kind of under the table agreement with the grays. And if you found out the government allowed the grays to kidnap a bunch of people, harvest their sperm and eggs so they could make hybrids and in return for giving us technology during the Cold War, you'd say, gosh, when did the Senate ratify such a treaty?
And gosh, there's an actual treaty somewhere. There's a paper trail for this, you.
Think, or oh, yeah, well there was that all ended apparently. Remember the Cold War? Remember Papa. You're too young to remember, Papa, doctor Vallier, who ran Haiti for us. This guy wrapped himself in voodoo as a way to terrorize his own population. Not only was he a ruthless dictator, but but he he mesmerizes people by the idea that he was a personification of the god or death in voodoo, and so therefore he could make people disappear or torture them to
death whatever he wanted. And and he he was our faithful alliant in Haiti, though, because he was a staunch anti communist during the Cold during the Cold War, and so the government has been involved in a lot of stuff. The UFO cover up has gone on for eighty years, and the US government has not exactly followed constitutional norms. Uh. You know in their defense, you know what they would say.
They would say, well, desperate times required death measures. You know, we were facing the communists on Earth, we were facing the grays from outer space.
Why are you so convinced that it's grays from outer space? Because I've looked at the list of non human intelligence options and there's like fifty and only like one of these. Then I.
Agree completely. The universes just like the Earth. The universe is a very complicated place. We appear to be a strategic location in space. I can give you more details on that, but basically, we appear to be a strategic location and we're the focus of attention for that reason for a number of extra interstellar powers. There's only three basic groups. There's there's three basic groups, and that's a gross over simplification. But you know, there's the little short
gray guys. They're terrible, it's my understanding. They're all animal mutilations and abductions and stuff. All of that is done by them, and human mutilations too.
Are those the ones that are like the AI ones with no souls that people talking about or is that different?
They act like a bunch of soldier ants.
Uh, organic AI.
Yeah, so they used to call it in Marvel comics androids, bless and blood. That's the little ones.
They just call them little gray guys.
They just call them little They call them the grays. And apparently they have copper based instead of yeah, iron based blood, they have copper based blood, so it's blue, leading to the idea of the blue Blood's being you know, kind of godlike and uh, but the octopus uses blue blood, and so you can support a very advanced nervous system with blue blood. However, copper based blood is not as efficient as iron based blood, as it turns out. That's why all the major land animals on Earth in a
high oxygen environment use red blood. Things like scorpions and tarantulas and stuff. They use blue blood. And so the Grays attempt to kind of occupy this planet with hybrids failed apparently because they couldn't get hybrids that were viable based on a mixture of blue and red blood. And one of the places where this idea of blue blood comes in or green blood comes in, is in the star Trek. By the way, Spock was supposedly had copper based blood.
But can't they just go some other planet that's good for blue blood aliens? And also where do they come from?
Oh, this is a real nice this is a this is a nice planet. You know you I have a cartoon shows a gray standing there in space by the Earth and he says, that's the nice planet you have there.
And you think they just really like this planet, like it's like some kind.
Of water, a lot of water, a lot of resources. It's a nice, nice, big planet. And not only that it doesn't have dinosaurs running around eating anything that they see. It's a very bio friendly planet for somebody like them, especially because they're short. And so we have that group. Then we have another group straight out of Star Trek, the equivalent to the Vulcans. They are our cousins, apparently.
And I had conversations in Washington, d C. With people who I knew were absolutely experien professionals in the intel business, who told me there are people down on Earth. You could walk by them on the street, you would never notice them. And they're not from this planet. They are basic and you can't tell them genetically from human beings. In fact, we're part them, and they call them. Some people call them Nordic's. I call them just the Plyatheians.
And you notice in Star Trek, and they even commented on this that a lot of the beings they encountered in the outer space were basically very very human, like the Vulcans being the primary example. Spock's mother was human and his father was Vulcan. They got together, got married and produced a healthy kid. And so so that's that's another group. And they're apparently are friends. They're helping us.
That one't surprises me but also does at the same time, like I would expect that aliens would be so different from us, But at the same time, the one that would streak me out the most is if they looked just like us where they were. And I think that that's believable because I look around at people and I wonder if they're an alien. Sometimes I look at them and I go, if that person was an alien, I would not be able to tell like you know they You can't you can't so much variety.
According to what I was told, you can't tell them apart from human beings by blood type or genetics and and uh. They said this was a concern because they thought they were getting security clearances and becoming involved with the government and they wanted They actually asked me because of my Mars. Because I was of my Mars work, I was considered kind of an expert on ets, and they said, do you have any uh And by the way.
The Martian et expert John Brandenburg.
Well, the the the Martian or the what I call the Sidonian civilization up on Mars, they look just like us. Well, they didn't look like lizards. But the thing is Okay, so so there's people like us who are apparently our cousins. Somebody said, oh, they look like us, and I said, no, they look like them because because of shortly back in the back in the day, and there's always uh Greek legends like that.
Now real quick, uh, I want to know if there's any other theories, because you're competing with some pretty pretty out there ones. I like the weird ones. Uh. Jason Georgohnny thinks that humans from the future went back to the past and made Atlantic and that we've got kind of thing. Okay, okay, the other one.
And then and did he did he talk about when they crash and the desert and the coyotes eat their bodies.
You know, I don't know.
I'm this is all some kind of somebody was saying this, these are holographic simulations or these are humans from the future, and I said, yeah, with copper based blood there from the future.
Okay, what about maybe they made those aliens. I don't know, you said they're organic aid guy, what if a hive mind has taken over and the hive mind can literally just like three D print the UFOs straight out of the.
I'm sure there's a certain amount of that. They say that the real pros among the ets three D print or UFOs here at Earth for using Earth materials, so the isotopes all match. So if you get pieces of crash ufo, you'll just say, well, this aluminum just looks like regular aluminum from an aircraft. Isotopically you can tell stuff where if stuff is from off world, like meteorites, because it has different isotopes, then stuff.
I'll ask you about that. But before we do that, and into that the Mars stuff that we can finish with that, I mean, I have a simpler answer. It's us, like we've figured this out, like the why why we dismissed that? I'm literally talking to you John Brandenberg right now. You knew Winnterberg. You know all these scientists you're you're
looking at stuff. Why is the answer not just like hey, you're just spitting this tale about aliens because you know we've figured this out and you've worked on these secret projects and like you can't talk about it, Like why why.
Isn't that There's there's very little that I worked on that I can't talk about it.
Yeah, you know people, but by the way, I was never.
Read into the UFO programs, so I can you know, I actually I'm not violating into security. Was talking about it, you know, like I said, they said, go ahead and write about what we want in this novel as long as it's labeled science fiction. John And so they you know, they gave me that. I tend to. I know that we can travel to other planets. We went to the Moon six times. I believe that, and we may have gone farther with alien technology. Who knows, you know, the idea of somebody else could Why.
Didn't lose the technology to go to the moon though, right, you don't think that, right, you know.
We may have been told not to go back to the moon, but there were also there were geopolitical reasons. We have a space treaty called the Outer Space. We actually have a treaty outer space treaty called the Outer Space Treaty of nineteen sixty seven, which was ratified by Congress, signed by the Russians, signed by the Chinese, and by every European UH country. And it's UH. It's it's basically says you can't claim like the Moon or Mars as
national territory. It also says you can't put nuclear weapons in space and uh so it's a uh well.
So the question though, is like, do you really think that we don't have I mean the military, US military, China. Do you think we've got anti gravity technology? Yes? I do, yes, yes, yeah.
So by the way, when I would do.
With us, why does it have to be aliens when we're seeing stuff flying around or do you think that there's a mixture?
Oh, the because of the accounts of if it was just US, I think it would have been classified a long time ago. But because of the alien aspect that people are general people in the government. Once the toothpaste is out of the tube, you cannot put it back in. If if it comes out that the government knows we're being visited by people from outer space who are more advanced than us, it kind of quells into question who is the chief rooster in this root in this henhouse?
You know, is it the US government or is it somebody from outer space? You know, they people start asking, you know, we thought we were at the top of the food chain. Apparently no, there's other links in the food chain. You know, there's there's powers above the powers on Earth, and no power on Earth likes to be demoted.
Yeah, most of us are at the bottom, and we don't care who our ruler is if it's somebody else on another planet. Now I get it. He might be saying that, you know, our government might be ready to battle with the space aliens. You know, that would actually track with what Salvatar Pais has been saying about human technology.
Well, yeah, well, the we apparently are involved in a low level conflict with the Grays, and we've been there for a long time, and we finally we tried to we tried to make nice with him with a treaty, and then we found out that were violating the treaty.
And then this culminated in this supposed military clash in a place called Dulce, New Mexico. And based on what I heard in Washington, d C. That really did happen. I heard several accounts, and basically the only difference between the accounts was the body count. Some people said, oh, sixty humans got killed. Other people said, oh no, it's more like one hundred. And the other people said, oh no, we only lost five. The aliens lost lost sixty. On and on it went, and you basically just kind of
take the basic story and apparently. By the way, this tracks with Hollywood. Apparently during the Secret Treaty regime, which lasted apparently from nineteen sixty eight into about nineteen seventy nine seventy eight, Close they Hollywood celebrated this by Close Encounters of the Third Kind, which is a love fest between ends with a love fest between the humans and the little gray aliens. Okay, then you fast Okay, that comes out in nineteen seventy seven. Then there's the Clash
at Dulce where everything goes to pieces. It was under Jimmy Carter. And what's the next big movie about aliens to come out. It's the movie Alien, which is about you know, we're back to bloodsucking aliens, utter betrayal by the authorities of humans, you know, And that's that's If you watch Close Encounters of the Third Kind it's from seventy seven, and then Alien from seventy nine, you get some idea of what happened.
Well, I look at it and I just go, you know, if these aliens exist, they really are shy and camera shy. At least nobody's finding it making any video shoot them, well, not taking videos. I'm not seeing any of them online. But you know, if they look like us, that solves
that problem. Now, let me yes drop the last topic here, which is the Mars topic, because so I'm just going to summarize my understanding of your book about Mars that because there's certain isotopes that are found within the atmosphere, I believe this shows that there was very likely, if not certainly, nuclear explosions that happened on Mars. Could explain why there's no magnetic field, maybe, but really, so real quick, the story is that there was a civilization on Mars
in the past. They potentially destroyed themselves with nuclear weaponry, and perhaps they came transported and came over to Earth and now we are them or something like that. Is that go ahead and fill the gap.
I you're I agree with the basic idea that there was a dead there's a dead civilization on Mars, and it dates from a time when Mars had an earth like climate. I'm the discover of the Mars Ocean. By the way, one of the reasons I uh hold academia in this country in a little bit of disregard is uh, you know, they won't give me credit for discovering the Bars Ocean, even though I if you if a look on in Wikipedia of Mars Ocean theory, I'm reference number one.
You know, I was the first person to propose it, but they never give me any credit. And because of my other work on Mars. Now it looks though as though there was a primitive humanoid civilization on Mars predating the dinosaurs, which shows that the basic human form predates humans on Earth. Humans are a superterrestrial phenomenon. But you've got to realize we're very practical. Look how many places on Earth humans live. We're a very practical, rugged bunch.
But is it? It appears? And by the way, I've shown the evidence I have for the Thermer Nucletar holocaust on Mars to nuclear experts, several of them, and they agree with me, but they can't be quoted on the record.
So are you saying that they wipe themselves out and they're gone, or are you saying that no remnants made it to Earth or do you just not know or not care?
What's your Oh? It based on the evidence that I have, I'm trying to analyze this is just a scientific problem. They look like us because human beings are a super terrestrial kind of phenomenon in the stars, just like in Star Trek. But these people were fairly primitive. They did
not have nuclear weapons themselves, they did not have space travel. Basically, what we find is what looks like a fairly Bronze Age or Stone Age, and we're talking old Kingdom Egypt or the Mayans or the Toll texts from Mexico, Old
Mexico kind of civilization. And then it looks as though someone else came along and dropped two hydrogen bombs as big as the Empire state building on Mars, utterly destroying the civilization there, and not only that, but destroying the entire biosphere of Mars so it could never recover.
Now are taking the inference that they only had a certain level of technology and that somebody else did that. What's the evidence, Well.
There's no there's no evidence of any highways, the there's things that look like fortifications, but they're built on high ground. It all looks there's no indications like airports.
Or you're talking about the topology of the planet of Mars itself. You're not right.
It does not look like this was an advanced civilization, which makes it even more sad that apparently somebody who was very advanced came along destroyed them. And this means that it was somebody who's been somebody like the Pladeons, who are basically human, they would have probably just conquered it, but instead this is somebody who was very non human. Supposedly, these reptilian aliens that you know, there's very hardly any
stories about them, but apparently they do exist. But the either the Grays or the reptilian aliens, somebody who did not like human beings at all decided to make an
example out of Mars. Genghis Khan would make if a city resisted him, he would kill everybody in the city and make pyramids of heads, just as to terrorize everybody, so that the next city he approached, he'd knock on the gates and say to open your gates, give us all your stuff, otherwise you'll end up like the last city, you know, as a pyramid of heads will kill everybody. And so this is a weapon orization.
Wouldn't you just take out the whole planet if you have that kind of advanced level of technology, why are you dropping nukes? Like again, it just feels like we're taking our level understanding, we're pretending like it's the highest level of technology that's out there. If your civilization coming by doing a drive by bombing, I feel like you should easily be able to wipe Mars out, Like Mars isn't there anymore, We would never have any trees.
Ash did. Why turn it into a black hole? Why turn Mars into a black hole when all you need to do is just destroy everything on the surface. You know, it's like, uh, you know what you're what you're talking about is somebody taking the planet Mars and turning it into a black hole. You know that that's there's a there's a there's like a zero point energy weapon would do something like that. And uh no, no they didn't bother with that. They just hydrogen bombs are easy to build.
The Russians basically showed by the way you could build hydrogen bombs as uh big as the aircraft carrier Enterprise.
And let me ask you this because this is how I kind of want to This is my final question for you. Okay, do you think we are going to annihilate ourselves? Do you think we're gonna get past the Fermi paradox and the great filter?
Yes? Yes?
And why do you believe that.
Well, you know, we're talking fundamentally about things we can't know. We we can't know what's really going to happen in the future. But I'm religious. I'm just an episcopalian, you know. Uh. And and you know, Bible prophecy basically says the human race is around in the future getting in the same kind of trouble it gets in now, you know. And and by the way, you know, Ai is in the Bible. There's a city called Ai in the Book of Joshua.
You should read about it. It's actually spelled Ai. And so I'm not worried about Ai destroying us, though I think we should be very careful about that. So I think the human race is going to do fine. I think the vision for the human future is star Trek. That's the way we're going to be.
Okay, I appreciate that I'm not as optimistic as you are. I think I look around and I see the destructive capability that we are able of unleashing, and I think that inevitably, it's just a matter of time until somebody presses the wrong button, everything's gone, just like But I prefer that let's talk to people that are more optimistic than I have.
I'm quite optimistic. I think with God's help, we'll get through this.
So go ahead and shout out whatever else you want or where people can find you. I appreciate you talking to me today. Doctor Brandenburg. Has been a great conversation, Ashton. It's been a pleasure and honor to be on your show. I wrote a book called Cosmic Awakening. It's available on Amazon dot com. I also wrote the science fiction novel in two thousand and three called Morning Star Pass to Collapse of the UFO cover Up, and we're going to
turn it into a movie. Two beautiful women who are news anchors bring down the UFO cover up.
There you go.
It sounds like a bestseller already blockbuster, so I hope it does well. Let me know and I'll check it out promoter for you, uh, Doctor Brandonburg. Thank you very much. Guys. This was another episode of Hard Trew's podcast. Make sure you hit the like, hit the subscribe, follow Doctor Brandenburg and we'll talk again soon.